Cruiser "Aggro Control"

grufftech · 01-18-2010, 09:51 AM

Obviously the cruiser is designed as the "tank" of the three ship types -- However we seem to be having an issue where our escort somehow draws a very large amount of aggro in a short period of time, and then the ships refuse to retarget our cruiser untill our poor escort is dead... Any tips on Cruisers gaining alot of aggro quickly?

JamieK81 · 01-18-2010, 10:35 AM

i believe its a AI code glitch when when you do damage, the AI attacks the closest member of the team and not even a cruiser can survive that.

So, i highly doubt its going to be like wow or another mmo, where the tank soaks ALL the damage, i think if they do it right, there will be no need for tanks, i play for fun, so i plan to do tactical, cruiser and do dps, i don't care that i don't get the highest, all that matters is that we succeed.

thegreatpablo · 01-18-2010, 10:40 AM

grufftech, we're having that same problem. I'm part of a three person team (escort, cruiser, and science). I play the escort and find that I die an awful lot from pulling aggro and the cruiser not being able to do anything about it.

In the end, it seems like (in group play specifically) cruiser captains make a LOT of sacrifices (speed, maneuverability, damage output) with no return whatsoever since their increased survivability is never really tested since they can't hold aggro.

I'd love to see some changes to how this dynamic works because it really seems that cruisers are worthless (except to take the first hit when approaching a group of enemies) in groups.

Bansheedragon · 01-18-2010, 10:42 AM

I fly an escort, and have alot of problems with this.
Take the Fleet action areas, I can come in as one of the last 5 into the battle, but the moment I come into range, all enemy ships target me.
It dont happen all the time, but sometimes it happens before I even manage to get a single shot off, they just start shooting at me the moment I get in range no matter how "threatening" anyone else may be.
At those times, I'm dead before I even have time to realise that I'm being shot at.

Danimal · 01-18-2010, 10:44 AM

Perhaps this is something that needs to be fixed?

LostCosmonaut · 01-18-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Obviously the cruiser is designed as the "tank" of the three ship types -- However we seem to be having an issue where our escort somehow draws a very large amount of aggro in a short period of time, and then the ships refuse to retarget our cruiser untill our poor escort is dead... Any tips on Cruisers gaining alot of aggro quickly?

I noticed this even in my Miranda. There were times where I would be in a group and the whole enemy fleet would sometimes just all target only me and I'd be dead in seconds. No idea why, seemed very random. Never seemed to happen to my team mates but could be I just didn't notice.

Tiberion1701 · 01-18-2010, 10:52 AM

I'm an eng in a cruiser and I have been playing with a friend who is tac/escort;

I usually go in first and hit the first target with a high yield volley and a full round of phasers, then switch to the other ships and give them each a pair of torps and pahsers before focusing on the main target again. By this time the escort usually has its aggro again but a 2nd high yield volley briings it back.

There are times where a massive strike by the escort pulls them all and that can be rough.

The escorts could use an aggro dump - I am not sure Jam sensors or the aoe placate skill is working right

CaedJar · 01-18-2010, 10:56 AM

Just knowing some of the game dynamic, I would agree that this is a dynamic that definately needs to be looked at. While this isn't a traditional MMO and the roles of Tank, Healer, Support, and DPS aren't clearly defined and are more or less hybridized, the Cruiser is clearly meant to take the heavy hits in the attack, and with escorts doing so much up front damage, there is no skill on the table that really gives the cruiser the ability to keep the enemies' attention from the escort so he can do his job.
Generally, from my understanding so far, (and keep in mind that this is in open beta so I haven't had much play time to really get the dynamics down) the cruiser seems to be designed for damage absorption and quick hull repair, while the science vessel is designed for the support roles of debuffs and rapid sheild repair, leaving the escort class to be primary DPS as well as support later on for repelling boarding crews, etc. Since this dynamic is reasonably laid out, it doesn't make any sense for the cruiser to have no solid abilities to grab aggro in the encounters.
Strategies will vary, and its likely that each group will be made up of varying ship compliments, so I wouldn't begin to assume that you'll always have all 3 types with you in battle, and I especially wouldn't think that a single cruiser would be meant to take all the hits either. This was meant to allow you to customize your teams and "fleets" and as such, I'd expect to see multiple cruisers passing aggro between them, while science vessels did their best to debuff the main target and keep shielding at a maximum for the cruisers, followed by escorts punching through and causing massive damage before they zip out for another pass. Add or subtract what you like from the equation, it seems clear to me that this is how each ship was designed, but at current, an escort class is so threatening that its lucky to get off its first salvo before all ships turn to take it out.

thegreatpablo · 01-18-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberion1701

The escorts could use an aggro dump - I am not sure Jam sensors or the aoe placate skill is working right

It seems that placate works fine, however it's not an aggro dump, it only suspends the aggro for 8 seconds or whatever. You use it, the enemy targets something else for 8 seconds, then immediately retargets the person with the most threat.

Tatanka · 01-18-2010, 11:06 AM

Aggro seems to be all over the place some times.

The only time I've seen it based on proximity is when no one has shot at the target. After someone hits the target, then the NPC appears to get out of proximity aggro mode.

I've been duoing with my girlfriend. When we were in Mirandas, I would run into a group with defensive power and tab target fire to try and get everything's attention. Then she (in attack power) and I would start unloading on one. So long as she didn't shoot the others, they would stay on me. However the one we were focusing on would eventually start switching aggro between us. By the time it was dead, she would have complete aggro on it. Then we would move to the next target.

With the large dps difference between a cruiser and escort, I don't know how you'll be able to keep all of the targets on you. At the very least you should be able to keep most of them on you so long as the escort focuses fire and doesn't use aoe abilities like spread and fire at will.

I'd be interested in seeing how a science vessel does with it's greater shield capacity and numerous debuffs. Haven't tested it, but just how much aggro do debuffs cause?

01-18-2010, 09:51 AM	#1
grufftech Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Cruiser "Aggro Control" Obviously the cruiser is designed as the "tank" of the three ship types -- However we seem to be having an issue where our escort somehow draws a very large amount of aggro in a short period of time, and then the ships refuse to retarget our cruiser untill our poor escort is dead... Any tips on Cruisers gaining alot of aggro quickly? __________________ =^===========================================^= Kyior @ Grufftech \| U.S.S. Blackhat \| NX-93421 \| Science Class =^===========================================^=

01-18-2010, 10:42 AM	#4
Bansheedragon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010	I fly an escort, and have alot of problems with this. Take the Fleet action areas, I can come in as one of the last 5 into the battle, but the moment I come into range, all enemy ships target me. It dont happen all the time, but sometimes it happens before I even manage to get a single shot off, they just start shooting at me the moment I get in range no matter how "threatening" anyone else may be. At those times, I'm dead before I even have time to realise that I'm being shot at. __________________ For Starfleet engineers, miracles are just standard operating procedure

01-18-2010, 10:44 AM	#5
Danimal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kamloops B.c.	Perhaps this is something that needs to be fixed? __________________ =/\= ========================================== =/\= Lieutenant Commander Daniel James USS Wells (NCC-92964) Beta Squadron, 4th Fleet, United Federation of Planets =/\= ========================================== =/\=

01-18-2010, 11:06 AM	#10
Tatanka Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008	Aggro seems to be all over the place some times. The only time I've seen it based on proximity is when no one has shot at the target. After someone hits the target, then the NPC appears to get out of proximity aggro mode. I've been duoing with my girlfriend. When we were in Mirandas, I would run into a group with defensive power and tab target fire to try and get everything's attention. Then she (in attack power) and I would start unloading on one. So long as she didn't shoot the others, they would stay on me. However the one we were focusing on would eventually start switching aggro between us. By the time it was dead, she would have complete aggro on it. Then we would move to the next target. With the large dps difference between a cruiser and escort, I don't know how you'll be able to keep all of the targets on you. At the very least you should be able to keep most of them on you so long as the escort focuses fire and doesn't use aoe abilities like spread and fire at will. I'd be interested in seeing how a science vessel does with it's greater shield capacity and numerous debuffs. Haven't tested it, but just how much aggro do debuffs cause? __________________ ▐█▌▐█▌PERSONNEL RECORD▐█████████████████████████████▌▐█▌ NAME: Jayce "Tatanka" Lighthorse RANK: Lieutenant Commander ASSIGNMENT: Commanding Officer - USS Iroquois - NCC-92768 ▐█▌▐█▌CLICK: STO INFORMATION INDEX▐████████████████████▌▐█▌

01-18-2010, 10:35 AM	#2
JamieK81 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	i believe its a AI code glitch when when you do damage, the AI attacks the closest member of the team and not even a cruiser can survive that. So, i highly doubt its going to be like wow or another mmo, where the tank soaks ALL the damage, i think if they do it right, there will be no need for tanks, i play for fun, so i plan to do tactical, cruiser and do dps, i don't care that i don't get the highest, all that matters is that we succeed.

01-18-2010, 10:40 AM	#3
thegreatpablo Member Join Date: Sep 2009	grufftech, we're having that same problem. I'm part of a three person team (escort, cruiser, and science). I play the escort and find that I die an awful lot from pulling aggro and the cruiser not being able to do anything about it. In the end, it seems like (in group play specifically) cruiser captains make a LOT of sacrifices (speed, maneuverability, damage output) with no return whatsoever since their increased survivability is never really tested since they can't hold aggro. I'd love to see some changes to how this dynamic works because it really seems that cruisers are worthless (except to take the first hit when approaching a group of enemies) in groups.

01-18-2010, 10:52 AM	#7
Tiberion1701 Career Officer Join Date: Nov 2009	I'm an eng in a cruiser and I have been playing with a friend who is tac/escort; I usually go in first and hit the first target with a high yield volley and a full round of phasers, then switch to the other ships and give them each a pair of torps and pahsers before focusing on the main target again. By this time the escort usually has its aggro again but a 2nd high yield volley briings it back. There are times where a massive strike by the escort pulls them all and that can be rough. The escorts could use an aggro dump - I am not sure Jam sensors or the aoe placate skill is working right

01-18-2010, 10:56 AM	#8
CaedJar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010	Just knowing some of the game dynamic, I would agree that this is a dynamic that definately needs to be looked at. While this isn't a traditional MMO and the roles of Tank, Healer, Support, and DPS aren't clearly defined and are more or less hybridized, the Cruiser is clearly meant to take the heavy hits in the attack, and with escorts doing so much up front damage, there is no skill on the table that really gives the cruiser the ability to keep the enemies' attention from the escort so he can do his job. Generally, from my understanding so far, (and keep in mind that this is in open beta so I haven't had much play time to really get the dynamics down) the cruiser seems to be designed for damage absorption and quick hull repair, while the science vessel is designed for the support roles of debuffs and rapid sheild repair, leaving the escort class to be primary DPS as well as support later on for repelling boarding crews, etc. Since this dynamic is reasonably laid out, it doesn't make any sense for the cruiser to have no solid abilities to grab aggro in the encounters. Strategies will vary, and its likely that each group will be made up of varying ship compliments, so I wouldn't begin to assume that you'll always have all 3 types with you in battle, and I especially wouldn't think that a single cruiser would be meant to take all the hits either. This was meant to allow you to customize your teams and "fleets" and as such, I'd expect to see multiple cruisers passing aggro between them, while science vessels did their best to debuff the main target and keep shielding at a maximum for the cruisers, followed by escorts punching through and causing massive damage before they zip out for another pass. Add or subtract what you like from the equation, it seems clear to me that this is how each ship was designed, but at current, an escort class is so threatening that its lucky to get off its first salvo before all ships turn to take it out.