Ask Zinc 16/June 2009

[NeoWolf06]

Here is what was said for all those who missed it

Questions in Red. Answers in Blue

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Angelwithsoul> How extensive is space flight movement? Will I able to run into a nebula and make a 360 loop and end up behind my enemy, Or is ship movement merely restricted to a horizontal level with perhaps an ability to elevate up or down a little without rotating the ship upside down?

<CrypticZinc> We're going to post one of the questions here...
<CrypticZinc> and then allow for a followup from the person if they're here.
<CrypticZinc> There's no rolling or looping in STO now. There's pretty signifigant up and down movement, but no barrel rolls or looping.
<CrypticZinc> Movement and positioning is a large portion of the gameplay, but not all of it by any stretch.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Ernest> will ships need to energy or fuel to move?

<CrypticZinc> Definitely. Although for the most part it’s not consumable. You speed and turning rates are directly tied to the amount of power that you’ve allocated for those systems.
<CrypticZinc> You put more energy into engines, and you move faster.
<CrypticZinc> You put more towards the auxiliary and you turn quicker. (Amongst other things)

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Thunder Child> I'm curious about the physics used, I noticed in a previous ask cryptic where it was said that small ships can fish tail, how far is this taken? Could a Defiant, for example, set a course and speed, then rotate the nose away from the direction of travel to engage a target without affecting the direction of travel, or will a ship always move in the direction that the nose is pointed?

<CrypticZinc> We've said a few times that different ships have different attributes - and that's definitly true...
<CrypticZinc> Turning rates, max speeds, etc...
<CrypticZinc> However, you do always move in the direction that you're pointing.
<CrypticZinc> There’s no strafing, no moving backwards and shooting (kiting).

<CrypticZinc> MightyBOB> How am I supposed to back out of star-dock?

<CrypticZinc> Ok, I lied. There IS reverse in the game, but it's not really effective in combat.
<CrypticZinc> It's something to use to get out of trouble spots, and in special combat cases - but it's not as fast as forward, so not as useful.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Sarevok> I think what Ernest meant was: do we need to refuel

<CrypticZinc> Currently, not FUEL. There are consumables that you'll have to go back to stardock for, but we're not making you gas your starship on a regular basis. Fuel management isn't something that we're excited about as a gameplay mechanic.
<CrypticZinc> Would rather be able to design slightly unpredictable content - spring a huge Borg cube on you when you least expect it - and not have you run out of gas. : )

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Vorador> Can you use warp while in combat?

<CrypticZinc> No. No warp in combat. Combat in STO takes place at subwarp speeds.
<CrypticZinc> I know that combat takes place in warp sometimes in the shows and movies - we wanted to be able to give you a sense of place and positioning in combat, I can only theoretically imagine what combat at warp would LOOK like.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Loekii> In 3D Space view (not mapview) What is the Ceiling/floor Height Size/Scale? Will it be large, like say a ship at the 'Ceiling' will not be able to even see a ship directly below them at the 'Floor' (ie its like +1000' tall), or is it much smaller (like 100' tall).

<CrypticZinc> Huge. Although we're in space - it's also a video game and that comes with certain limitations. : )
<CrypticZinc> There are "edges" to the maps.
<CrypticZinc> However, your example is great. If you're at the "top" and I'm at the "bottom" - we can't detect each other. THAT big.
<CrypticZinc> (Well, unless we're on the same team - then you'll know I'm there.)


[RANT]
<CrypticZinc> I'm surprised about the reactions to the lack of fuel comment.
<CrypticZinc> This goes for a lot of things - and hopefully I don't get long winded or offend anyone.
<CrypticZinc> There are a lot of mechanics and features to the game that we at Cryptic imagined when we first started the STO project.
<CrypticZinc> Rolling, fuel - things like that.
<CrypticZinc> Once we got the game up and running, and more people got on the team, and we started playing it more...
<CrypticZinc> there were things that we just didn't _miss_ from the original ideas that we had.
<CrypticZinc> things that the game didn't demand that we put in to make it a richer experience.
<CrypticZinc> I know that there's been a lot of speculation about how ship movement works - it's one of the reasons why we're doing this chat.
<CrypticZinc> But I can tell you, that with all that you get to do in space - Bridge Officer skills, power levels, balancing shields, positioning yourself, etc...
<CrypticZinc> Nobody internally has asked for the ability to do rolls or loops.
<CrypticZinc> Does that make sense? (he asks to a muted chat room. : )
<CrypticZinc> It's not that we didn't have time to put it in - it's that the gameplay didn't merit that we do it. : )
[/RANT]

<CrypticZinc> Shiroi98> i wonder whats the learning curve like..

<CrypticZinc> Kinda big right now. : )

<Bizarro_Daeke> <Dark_MatterTRON> Movement has been described as a sort of 2dimensional map thing, which doesn't really sound all that exciting graphically. Are we at least going to see warp outs?

<CrypticZinc> If I’ve described it as much, I apologize. It’s definitely 3D. You play the heights, you hide behind space debris in all axis. Not 2D.

<Bizarro_Daeke> <NeoWolf> Just how tactical will movement and combat be? I know it has be said about balancing shields and power etc.. but how important will moving and positioning really be? or will it be a case of always the biggest ships with the most weapons in a strafe will win?

<CrypticZinc> I don’t want to say that the class of your ship has nothing to do with combat, but positioning is HUGE. Making sure that you get to your target’s weak side and protect (shift shield energy) to yours is gigantic. Movement and positioning is probably the single most important part of combat.
<CrypticZinc> That's not to say that a runabout is going to be able to take out a Vor'Cha just 'cause you're positioned well. : )

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Matt_Dravis> Relating to Vorador's question about warp in combat... How will one be able to escape from combat? Will a player be able to warp away from combat? If so, how will this be balanced so that escape is not too easy?

<CrypticZinc> Ah - that's the trick, huh?
<CrypticZinc> You currently can't warp while in combat. We're trying to balance the combat so that, if you get in over your head (like I sometimes do when I didn't expect the cloaked birds of prey) you can still "run away".
<CrypticZinc> Escape should be "easy" - but not "game-able".

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Jimjim> Will movement be largely forward, left, right, holding down W, A, S, D, or point-and-go like an RTS space game? Or both?

<CrypticZinc> We'll probably have multiple keymapings - but I'll let you know how it's mapped for most people right now.
<CrypticZinc> W and S pitch up and down.
<CrypticZinc> A and D turn your ship left and right.
<CrypticZinc> E and Q throttle up and down.

<CrypticZinc> Suricata> Will the mouse be usuable instead of useing the WASD keys?

<CrypticZinc> Currently, if you hold both mouse buttons down, your ship will go in the direction your camera is pointing.
<CrypticZinc> Hard to explain - but you "drive" your ship with the mouse.
<CrypticZinc> A lot more intuitive than me typing to explain it.
<CrypticZinc> So - those are the default mappings that we have right now... but people on the team have different ones, we'll definitly come up with other variations you can choose before launch.
<CrypticZinc> Our game engine is set up to be pretty customizable when it comes to key mapping - so you can do what YOU like.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Matt_Dravis> So it's a matter of getting a certain distance away from your enemies (so you are 'out of combat') before you can warp out?

<CrypticZinc> Yes.
<CrypticZinc> Exactly.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <inXi> Are we going to be able to use terrain properly? E.g., would climbing on top of a rock create some problems for the enemies or would they magically adjust to it and climb up? In fact, does ground movement affect combat at all, can a player gain significant advantage by actively moving?

<CrypticZinc> Ah, ground!
<CrypticZinc> I think that movement on the ground also provides important strategy. A lot of the weapons that you have on the ground have cones or other direction AoE attacks. Since combat one the ground tends to be group against group. (Away team versus group of enemies, not just one) I often will move my character to the side to “flank” the enemies and try to get as many
<CrypticZinc> It's not as positional as space - there's no "backstabbing" on the ground right now - but it's still there.

<Bizarro_Daeke> <Atavax> How will you make transportation through the vast and barren environment of space, visually appealing and diverse?

<CrypticZinc> With a lot of art.
<CrypticZinc> : )
<CrypticZinc> Actually, we’re focusing on the interesting parts – and not really trying to bog the player down in the hours and days of realistic travel through the vacuum of space.
<CrypticZinc> You do have to travel, it's not immediate "poof! I'm there" - but it's hopefully not boring or interminable.

<CrypticZinc> Loekii> So Empty Space is 3D? So no 2d Ever?

<CrypticZinc> Sector Space - where you travel between systems and other points of interest - is MORE 2D, but there's still a small (although mostly aesthetic) 3D element.

<CrypticZinc> tamgros> yeah, sector space is boring

<CrypticZinc> I don't think so. : )
<CrypticZinc> It won't be when you guys see it either. : )

Discuss

[Thunder Child]

Thanks for filtering out my goof lol

[DeepSky579]

Glad to Hear combat is in 3D and not 2d'ish as previously thought. That was a great session!

Thanks Zinc/Devs!!

[STO]

<CrypticZinc> Next ship update is gonna cool.

• <Highcommander> Sweet Craig, any chance it's a Romulan ship?

<CrypticZinc> <Highcommander> Kinda.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> Welcome to today's Star Trek Online dev chat! Craig Zinkievich is here to answer questions related to in-game movement. We've muted the channel so his answers can be read clearly. To discuss the dev chat, please visit #talktrek. Please PM your questions to Bizarro_Rekhan or Bizarro_Daeke.

<CrypticZinc> Where'd everyone go?

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Angelwithsoul> How extensive is space flight movement? Will I able to run into a nebula and make a 360 loop and end up behind my enemy, Or is ship movement merely restricted to a horizontal level with perhaps an ability to elevate up or down a little without rotating the ship upside down?

<CrypticZinc> We're going to post one of the questions here...
<CrypticZinc> and then allow for a followup from the person if they're here.
<CrypticZinc> There's no rolling or looping in STO now. There's pretty signifigant up and down movement, but no barrel rolls or looping.

<CrypticZinc> Movement and positioning is a large portion of the gameplay, but <CrypticZinc> Definitely. Although for the most part it’s not consumable. You speed and turning rates are directly tied to the amount of power that you’ve allocated for those systems.

<CrypticZinc> You put more energy into engines, and you move faster.
<CrypticZinc> You put more towards the auxiliary and you turn quicker. (Amongst other things)

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Thunder Child> I'm curious about the physics used, I noticed in a previous ask cryptic where it was said that small ships can fish tail, how far is this taken? Could a Defiant, for example, set a course and speed, then rotate the nose away from the direction of travel to engage a target without affecting the direction of travel, or will a ship always move in the direction that the nose is pointed?

<CrypticZinc> We've said a few times that different ships have different attributes - and that's definitly true...
<CrypticZinc> Turning rates, max speeds, etc...
<CrypticZinc> However, you do always move in the direction that you're pointing.
<CrypticZinc> There’s no strafing, no moving backwards and shooting (kiting).
<CrypticZinc> MightyBOB> How am I supposed to back out of star-dock?
<CrypticZinc> Ok, I lied. There IS reverse in the game, but it's not really effective <CrypticZinc> It's something to use to get out of trouble spots, and in special combat cases - but it's not as fast as forward, so not as useful.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Sarevok> I think what Ernest meant was: do we need to refuel

<CrypticZinc> Currently, not FUEL. There are consumables that you'll have to go back to stardock for, but we're not making you gas your starship on a regular basis. Fuel management isn't something that we're excited about as a gameplay mechanic.
<CrypticZinc> Would rather be able to design slightly unpredictable content - spring a huge Borg cube on you when you least expect it - and not have you run out of gas. : )

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Vorador> Can you use warp while in combat?

<CrypticZinc> No. No warp in combat. Combat in STO takes place at subwarp speeds.
<CrypticZinc> I know that combat takes place in warp sometimes in the shows and movies - we wanted to be able to give you a sense of place and positioning in combat, I can only theoretically imagine what combat at warp would LOOK like.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Loekii> In 3D Space view (not mapview) What is the Ceiling/floor Height Size/Scale? Will it be large, like say a ship at the 'Ceiling' will not be able to even see a ship directly below them at the 'Floor' (ie its like +1000' tall), or is it much smaller (like 100' tall).

<CrypticZinc> I'm surprised about the reactions to the lack of fuel comment.
<CrypticZinc> This goes for a lot of things - and hopefully I don't get long winded or offend anyone.
<CrypticZinc> There are a lot of mechanics and features to the game that we at Cryptic imagined when we first started the STO project.
<CrypticZinc> Rolling, fuel - things like that.
<CrypticZinc> Once we got the game up and running, and more people got on the team, and we started playing it more...
<CrypticZinc> there were things that we just didn't _miss_ from the original ideas that we had.
<CrypticZinc> things that the game didn't demand that we put in to make it a richer experience.
<CrypticZinc> I know that there's been a lot of speculation about how ship movement works - it's one of the reasons why we're doing this chat.
<CrypticZinc> But I can tell you, that with all that you get to do in space - Bridge Officer skills, power levels, balancing shields, positioning yourself, etc...
<CrypticZinc> Nobody internally has asked for the ability to do rolls or loops.
<CrypticZinc> Does that make sense? (he asks to a muted chat room. : )
<CrypticZinc> It's not that we didn't have time to put it in - it's that the gameplay didn't merit that we do it. : )
<CrypticZinc> Shiroi98> i wonder whats the learning curve like..
<CrypticZinc> Kinda big right now. : )

[Devren]

thanks for the post, neo!

[STO]

• <Bizarro_Daeke> <Dark_MatterTRON> Movement has been described as a sort of 2dimensional map thing, which doesn't really sound all that exciting graphically. Are we at least going to see warp outs?

<CrypticZinc> If I’ve described it as much, I apologize. It’s definitely 3D. You play the heights, you hide behind space debris in al axis. Not 2D.

• <Bizarro_Daeke> <NeoWolf> Just how tactical will movement and combat be? I know it has be said about balancing shields and power etc.. but how important will moving and positioning really be? or will it be a case of always the biggest ships with the most weapons in a strafe will win?

<CrypticZinc> I don’t want to say that the class of your ship has nothing to do with combat, but positioning is HUGE. Making sure that you get to your target’s weak side and protect (shift shield energy) to yours is gigantic. Movement and positioning is probably the single most important part of combat.
<CrypticZinc> That's not to say that a runabout is going to be able to take out a Vor'Cha just 'cause you're positioned well. : )

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Matt_Dravis> Relating to Vorador's question about warp in combat... How will one be able to escape from combat? Will a player be able to warp away from combat? If so, how will this be balanced so that escape is not too easy?

• <Bizarro_Daeke> A reminder: Only PM's to myself or Bizarro_Rekhan will be read. Any other PM's will be ignored.

<CrypticZinc> Ah - that's the trick, huh?
<CrypticZinc> You currently can't warp while in combat. We're trying to balance the combat so that, if you get in over your head (like I sometimes do when I didn't expect the cloaked birds of prey) you can still "run away".
<CrypticZinc> Escape should be "easy" - but not "game-able".

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Jimjim> Will movement be largely forward, left, right, holding down W, A, S, D, or point-and-go like an RTS space game? Or both?

<CrypticZinc> We'll probably have multiple keymapings - but I'll let you know how it's mapped for most people right now.
<CrypticZinc> W and S pitch up and down.
<CrypticZinc> A and D turn your ship left and right.
<CrypticZinc> E and Q throttle up and down.
<CrypticZinc> Suricata> Will the mouse be usuable instead of useing the WASD keys?
<CrypticZinc> Currently, if you hold both mouse buttons down, your ship will go in the direction your camera is pointing.
<CrypticZinc> Hard to explain - but you "drive" your ship with the mouse.
<CrypticZinc> A lot more intuitive than me typing to explain it.
<CrypticZinc> So - those are the default mappings that we have right now... but people on the team have different ones, we'll definitly come up with other variations you can choose before launch.
<CrypticZinc> Our game engine is set up to be pretty customizable when it comes to key mapping - so you can do what YOU like.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <Matt_Dravis> So it's a matter of getting a certain distance away from your enemies (so you are 'out of combat') before you can warp out?

<CrypticZinc> Yes.
<CrypticZinc> Exactly.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> 8 minute warning, folks.

• <Bizarro_Rekhan> <inXi> Are we going to be able to use terrain properly? E.g., would climbing on top of a rock create some problems for the enemies or would they magically adjust to it and climb up? In fact, does ground movement affect combat at all, can a player gain significant advantage by actively moving?

<CrypticZinc> Ah, ground!
<CrypticZinc> I think that movement on the ground also provides important strategy. A lot of the weapons that you have on the ground have cones or other direction AoE attacks. Since combat one the ground tends to be group against group. (Away team versus group of enemies, not just one) I often will move my character to the side to “flank” the enemies and try to get as many
<CrypticZinc> It's not as positional as space - there's no "backstabbing" on the ground right now - but it's still there.

• <Bizarro_Daeke> <Atavax> How will you make transportation through the vast and barren environment of space, visually appealing and diverse?

<CrypticZinc> With a lot of art.
<CrypticZinc> : )
<CrypticZinc> Actually, we’re focusing on the interesting parts – and not really trying to bog the player down in the hours and days of realistic travel through the vacuum of space.

<CrypticZinc> You do have to travel, it's not immediate "poof! I'm there" - but it's hopefully not boring or interminable.
<CrypticZinc> Loekii> So Empty Space is 3D? So no 2d Ever?

<CrypticZinc> Sector Space - where you travel between systems and other points of interest - is MORE 2D, but there's still a small (although mostly aesthetic) 3D element.
<CrypticZinc> tamgros> yeah, sector space is boring
<CrypticZinc> I don't think so. : )
<CrypticZinc> It won't be when you guys see it either. : )

• <Bizarro_Rekhan>

• Unfortunately, time's up! Thanks to everyone for asking your questions, and we're sorry we weren't able to address everyone. Be sure to stop by StarTrekOnline.com for the transcript of the chat!

• <MightyBOB> I still don't get sector space. I mean I have multiple ideas of what it could be based on the descriptions we've heard of it and I don't know which one it is supposed to be.

<CrypticZinc> Screenshots are on their way.

<CrypticZinc> I gotta get back to work, guys. Thanks for coming by!

[Terrani]

Should have left in Oleum's "Combo Breaker"

[Wolftrait]

Awesome chat session. It went quite smoothly with the mute. After it was removed it was like releasing a wild animal stampede. :P

[NeoWolf06]

deffo cleared up some things for me. glad its gonna be based around the WASD system, not point and click

[JudasJung]

Thanks for posting.