Making us wait for the Cardies and the Romulans

[willriker09]

So the Cardassians and the Romulans will be saved for a later expansion? I guess that is ok, but I really was looking forward to having a Cardassian security officer on my bridge for the game's launch.

[Silverspar]

So the Cardassians and the Romulans will be saved for a later expansion? I guess that is ok, but I really was looking forward to having a Cardassian security officer on my bridge for the game's launch.

Make them.

[AaronH]

I personally hope cardassians never show up as their own faction. I would love to see their space as a sort of "frontier" area, where the various factions are all vieing for control.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

So the Cardassians and the Romulans will be saved for a later expansion? I guess that is ok, but I really was looking forward to having a Cardassian security officer on my bridge for the game's launch.

The gameinformer article specificly said that you would be able to make your own "romulan" and "cardassian" with the character creation engine, even before these races are officialy added as playable factions:

"Whether you want to craft your own new alien species or emulate one that hasnt been put into the game, the tools are at your disposal."

[eNDIE]

I personally hope cardassians never show up as their own faction. I would love to see their space as a sort of "frontier" area, where the various factions are all vieing for control.

I agree plus i think that they shouldnt have been able to come back strong from what happened in the dominion war.

[Trekkie]

As others have stated, it will be possible to create races similar to the Romulans and the Cardassians, but personally I like that the developers are waiting to introduce more factions because I believe it will keep the game new and exciting for some time to come.

[Burchenall]

So the Cardassians and the Romulans will be saved for a later expansion? I guess that is ok, but I really was looking forward to having a Cardassian security officer on my bridge for the game's launch.
Look it this way: You will have some time to let you know the game and have the Dev's fix bugs while you train as Starfleet or Klingon, and when they release the faction you want you'll have some experience that will help you to choose your ship, crew and skills to begin with a strong character.

[willriker09]

Make them.

I know you can make them, but is that really the same? When we go to deep space nine I don't want the bajorans there to be all cozy and friendly with my Cardassian security officer because they are programmed to act that way with "create-a-characters". I want them to get ****ed off and have a bar fight in Quarks.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I know you can make them, but is that really the same? When we go to deep space nine I don't want the bajorans there to be all cozy and friendly with my Cardassian security officer because they are programmed to act that way with "create-a-characters". I want them to get ****ed off and have a bar fight in Quarks.

The Romulans and Cardassians will be added as playable factions in expansions, but at launch there will only be Federation and Klingon. So, if you want to be at war with Bajorians(who are part of the Federation now), make a Klingon factioned Cardassian using the character creator. Its the closest you'll be able to come until they are officialy added as a playable faction.

[KidBang]

Realistically, you can't expect them to develop initial content for four factions and have them launch in less than two years. I don't want a Romulan skin, I want a Romulan empire and am perfectly willing to wait for them to do it right. Same with Cards.

[JFendley]

I agree plus i think that they shouldnt have been able to come back strong from what happened in the dominion war.

Look at Germany after World War I. Thirty years later they almost took over all of Europe. I realize the Dominion War had a crippling effect on the Cardassians. But to say they couldn't rebound from that is a bit presumptuous.

I dare say the Carddies could come back stronger than they have ever been before. Maybe they found some cloning facilities and decided to make their own breed of Jem'Hadar or they started to clone themselves.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Look at Germany after World War I. Thirty years later they almost took over all of Europe. I realize the Dominion War had a crippling effect on the Cardassians. But to say they couldn't rebound from that is a bit presumptuous.

I dare say the Carddies could come back stronger than they have ever been before. Maybe they found some cloning facilities and decided to make their own breed of Jem'Hadar or they started to clone themselves.

Its true. The storyline of STO just goes to show you that things are not necessarily how they seemed they would be by what we saw last in the shows.

[Silverspar]

The point of the German's coming back to start World War II has no real merit since no allied force set foot in Germany at all during World War I (aka the Great War). Cardassia Prime, herself, had been literally bombed and decimated. The Federation is still trying to provide relief efforts towards the Cardassians.

[redfordsto]

I too was sad when I heard that there wouldn't be the possibility of commanding a Romulan Warbird. I wanted to decloak into the midst of my enemies, rip them up, and recloak before they can return fire. Luckily Klingon ships (and maybe some of the Federation ships?) have cloaking devices. But I understand why Cryptic isn't releasing three or four initial factions. Consider that the development team wants to give multiple playable races for each faction. This is apparent by how many races have joined the Klingons in the most recent Star Trek history. The Federation has Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, Bajorans, Ferengi, etc. The Klingons have themselves, the Gorn, the Orions, Nausicans, etc. In order to add a new faction and give the players diversity, I'm sure they would want to include a few species that are part of the faction. For the Romulans, this is a bit easier because in the universe, their faction hasn't been decimated by a recent war. But for the Cardassians, what playable races could there be that would release with Cardassians? If you really want a Cardassian or Romulan as your character, like others have said, you'll be able to create it through customization. As far as having a Cardassian security officer, I don't think that's too far fetched. You recruit your own bridge crew, so why shouldn't you be able to travel to Cardassian space, throw down some diplomacy and gain yourself a crew member? Maybe you'll have to wait a little bit longer to get your personal Star Trek world the way you've always envisioned it, but the meantime waiting for the expansions looks to be very entertaining.

[AugustusTirion]

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Romulans or Cardassians as a 3rd faction.
Introducing a 3rd faction to the game after launch would have some serious problems.
For starters, the new faction(s) would be coming into the game badly outgunned. They'd be all low level against 2 factions that have had (probably) a year to level up and get the 'uber' ships.
Then there are the development headaches of trying to balance a 3rd factions ships/abilities with the 2 existing factions.

IMO, it's much more likely that when the Romulans and Cardassians are introduced as playable races they'll be joining the existing factions. Probably adding their ship designs to their new factions selections.

I'd wager that when they're added, the Romulans will join the Federation and the Cardassians will join the Klingons.
Why do I think so? Gameplay and faction balance.
The addition of the Romulans would give the Federation cloaking ships, evening the scales against the Klingons.


PS.
For the Romulans, this is a bit easier because in the universe, their faction hasn't been decimated by a recent war.
Not true.
The Romulans recently went through a civil war.
Read The Path to 2409 (http://www.startrekonline.com/fiction)

[eNDIE]

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Romulans or Cardassians as a 3rd faction.
Introducing a 3rd faction to the game after launch would have some serious problems.
For starters, the new faction(s) would be coming into the game badly outgunned. They'd be all low level against 2 factions that have had (probably) a year to level up and get the 'uber' ships.
Then there are the development headaches of trying to balance a 3rd factions ships/abilities with the 2 existing factions.

IMO, it's much more likely that when the Romulans and Cardassians are introduced as playable races they'll be joining the existing factions. Probably adding their ship designs to their new factions selections.

I'd wager that when they're added, the Romulans will join the Federation and the Cardassians will join the Klingons.
Why do I think so? Gameplay and faction balance.
The addition of the Romulans would give the Federation cloaking ships, evening the scales against the Klingons.

while i think there will be only 2 factions i dont think it would be that bad if a new faction had to wait abit before they could compete with the existing to , the pve competition would probably be viable very fast the only part that would have to wait a bit would be PVP.

[TruthSeer]

while i think there will be only 2 factions i dont think it would be that bad if a new faction had to wait abit before they could compete with the existing to , the pve competition would probably be viable very fast the only part that would have to wait a bit would be PVP.

But didn't Jack say on the Vegas webcast when asked about expansions that Romulans and the Dominion would be coming? While I guess the Romulans could be added onto either faction it would be a little disappointing, having the Dominion added onto one of the factions would be greatly disappointing.

[eNDIE]

But didn't Jack say on the Vegas webcast when asked about expansions that Romulans and the Dominion would be coming? While I guess the Romulans could be added onto either faction it would be a little disappointing, having the Dominion added onto one of the factions would be greatly disappointing.

Yes he did we will just wait and see if they will be added as factions or just races

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I highly doubt we'll ever see the Romulans or Cardassians as a 3rd faction.

The GameInformer article specificly stated that they would be added as playable factions in future expansions. Think about it: if they werent going to be a playable faction, Cryptic would have no reason NOT to include two of the more popular species in the game as part of the Federation/Klingon factions at launch.

[eNDIE]

The GameInformer article specificly stated that they would be added as playable FACTIONS. Think about it: if they werent going to be a playable faction, Cryptic would have no reason NOT to include two of the more popular species in the game as part of the Federation/Klingon factions at launch.

Good point, i havent been able to get a copy of the magazine.

[AugustusTirion]

The GameInformer article specificly stated that they would be added as playable factions in future expansions.
No. It does not state that they'll be added as faction(s)
The exact quote is "Several Familiar races won't be playable in the initial release, but Cryptic has promised that expansions will add new civilizations like the Romulans and Cardassians as playable options."
'Options' (Which I take to mean races), not 'factions'.

Just to be sure where on the same page, lets make sure we're not mixing 'faction' and 'race'.
There a 2 factions, each with several member races.
Federation faction includes the races: Human, Vulcan, Bajoran, Andorian, Ferengi, and Tellarite.
Klingon faction includes the races: Klingon, Gorn, Orion, and Nausicaan.

Adding a faction to a PvP game after launch.... I just see too many potential problems.
Aside from the gameplay balancing issues, there's the problem of balancing the number of players in each faction.
For the faction vs faction (vs faction) warfare to work reasonably well, 1/3rd of players in each of the existing factions would have to leave to start from scratch. If less then that are willing to do so, the new faction will be outnumbered.
If it stays that way for long, the Devs would end up needing to 'buff' their ships so that their fewer numbers can compete.
*Then* players start jumping from their original faction because they want the better ships.
Now the new faction has the best ships and the most population, now the other 2 factions are 'pwned'.
New wave of buffs/nerfs.....
It's an ugly downward spiral.

I could be wrong, but I'd bet heavily that we won't see new factions after launch. Just new races. ;)

Think about it: if they werent going to be a playable faction, Cryptic would have no reason NOT to include two of the more popular species in the game as part of the Federation/Klingon factions at launch.
I can think of several reasons not to include them as part of the 2 factions at launch.
Development of assets are at the top of the list.

If they include the races at launch, players will expect their homeworlds to be there at launch as well.
Yes, Cryptic's engine can 'randomly' generate unknown planets, but planets like Romulus/Remus and Cardassia Prime will require quite a bit of development time if they're to be done to fan satisfaction.

Then there's the time required to develop the races ships.
Of the races we know will be in at launch there's little hard cannon on their race's ships (with the exception of the Ferengi). There is, however, a significant amount of hard cannon on Cardassian and Romluan ships
Like homeworlds, I expect that when the races are playable the players will want their ships as well.

Also, by adding races to the existing factions the devs can add new 'toys' to the factions.
As I mentioned before, Romulans joining the Federation (or simply allying with them) would give the Feds access to cloaking tech. Something they (probably) won't have yet.

[Silverspar]

You think too much Augustus. There would be no reason that a new faction can't be added to the game. I doubt any of the people here who want to be Romulans will accept anything less than being in the Romulan Star Empire politting Romulan warbird ships.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

You think too much Augustus. There would be no reason that a new faction can't be added to the game. I doubt any of the people here who want to be Romulans will accept anything less than being in the Romulan Star Empire politting Romulan warbird ships.

Exactly, and the Devs know this. Releasing the two most popular factions at launch and keeping the next two most popular factions for the first expansion is smart business, and Cryptic knows it.

[AugustusTirion]

You think too much Augustus....
If by 'think' you mean 'have experience in a wide variety of MMOs back to the first', OK. :p

Decide on a wager and mark this thread.
We'll come back to it in 2 years and see who's right.

[Silverspar]

If by 'think' you mean 'have experience in a wide variety of MMOs back to the first', OK. :p

Decide on a wager and mark this thread.
We'll come back to it in 2 years and see who's right.

Fine by me. I've been playing MMOs for 11 years now. The first massively successful one being UO. No MMO to date has tried adding an additional faction for one reasona nd one reason only. They never wanted to do it. You cannot, ever, site a specific instance of a new faction being added then failing, because there are no isntances of it.

[JPJappic]

'Playable Options' doesn't discount them as Playable Factions. Despite what has already been said about introducing new factions into the game being difficult, doing it would also give Cryptic credit for something that is never or rarely done.

Having the Romulans join the Federation is iffy to me. I *COULD* see it happen but i'm just not sure about it. The Cardassians are more fesable to join it to me. Regardless, we'll see what happens in the future. I am going to hold back on creating a Cardassian until they are launched as their own playable option/faction so that I can get the whole package :D

For now I am going to be playing a Tellarite instead cause they are equally as cool to me.

[phifur]

Look at Germany after World War I. Thirty years later they almost took over all of Europe. I realize the Dominion War had a crippling effect on the Cardassians. But to say they couldn't rebound from that is a bit presumptuous.

I dare say the Carddies could come back stronger than they have ever been before. Maybe they found some cloning facilities and decided to make their own breed of Jem'Hadar or they started to clone themselves.

I don't know about that the Cardassian they lost OVER 800 millions people. I don't know if the Cardassian can rebound in 30 years with a planet low in resources. But anything can happen.

[HighwayMan]

There will defiantly be new factions added in expansions and the Romulans will clearly be one of them. It would be silly and actually bad for business to not have other player factions in this game besides the Federation and Klingons.

As for a fourth faction my guess is the Dominion though I think the Cardassians or the Orion Syndicate would probably be better and more fun.

[USS_Parallax]

What would prevent the Cardassians from coming back strong? We've seen it happen to places like Germany.

Methinks the Federation and possibly other factions would want to rebuild Cardassia.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

There will defiantly be new factions added in expansions and the Romulans will clearly be one of them. It would be silly and actually bad for business to not have other player factions in this game besides the Federation and Klingons.

As for a fourth faction my guess is the Dominion though I think the Cardassians or the Orion Syndicate would probably be better and more fun.

Romulans will be 3rd, Cardassians will be 4th. Its a simple matter of adding them in the order of most profitable...i mean popular..., which is why the Federation and Klingons are going to be 1st and 2nd.

[Ray312]

You forget how easy it is to say a natural space boundary popped up blocking all but the romulans from freely passing, i dont know what they will say it is, but as long as no one can get in to own the weaker starting Romulans, whats so bad about waiting a month for the race to be actuallly out of the front door?

[Kayos]

As long as I can play a Romulan AND fly Romulan ships I will be happy

[wilq]

Hi there, its my first post here and i want to drop my 2 coins to discusion. As for me i consider playing STO only as romulan player and i wish the expansion with them will come out as fast after release as possible :)

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Hi there, its my first post here and i want to drop my 2 coins to discusion. As for me i consider playing STO only as romulan player and i wish the expansion with them will come out as fast after release as possible :)

Hi Wilq, and welcome to the forums. If I'm reading you right, your going to have to reconsider your position if you want to play STO with the rest of us when it comes out, because unfortunately romulans will not be an option an launch.

[Tabor]

it's a good idea on their part to not release every race out there, so they have more content to deliver later on.

[Silverspar]

What would prevent the Cardassians from coming back strong? We've seen it happen to places like Germany.

Methinks the Federation and possibly other factions would want to rebuild Cardassia.

The Allies in Wrold War I never stepped on German soil, the war was ended long before then. The GErman's didn't have their land and such devastated basically. Furthermore, the Cardassian's have been refusing Federation aid at almost all situations, where as after World War II, Germany was being assisted in it's rebuilding, under strict regulations and watch of course.

[USS_Parallax]

Tons of countries made huge comebacks after being devastated and the Federation did greatly help in ecosystem rebuilding and possibly a lot more after the first few years of Cardassian refusal.

[Silverspar]

Tons of countries made huge comebacks after being devastated and the Federation did greatly help in ecosystem rebuilding and possibly a lot more after the first few years of Cardassian refusal.

The only successful project for aid and support has been the Andak Project, which is small, and according ot the timeline that without more successful projects like the Andak Project, the Cardassian Union could fall in as little as three years.

You are basically making a comparison between a small country that isn't even a fraction to what the Cardassian Union itself is. They do not compare, even in the slightest imagination of what you are trying to predict or compare.

[USS_Parallax]

Well if we go by the amount of damage Cardassia took and since we're using soft canon sources...

800 million died I believe. That's nothing. Cardassia in most soft canon sources is overpopulated which is just another reason for their cravings of resources (that and their eco disaster). The population is often quoted as being in the several tends of billions. One time it was stated as being 80 billion on one planet.
Sure, that's like 1 in every 100 people dead but that wouldn't be THAT devastating. :P

And we don't know what soft canon they're looking at since they seem to be picking and choosing. The post-DS9 DS9 novels seem to be ignored by Cryptic and if they do in fact totally ignore these books then that's where 95% of the soft canon lore about Cardassia comes from and we just plain don't know and it can go any way.

[Gilcongane]

alright so my first post ever here.

As far as adding factions to the game i dont see why they couldnt do it, they could add the feature a few mmos are doing which lets people of a certain high level (or rank in the case of STO) be able to make a new race/class starting at an already high lvl, and generally when expansions come out the bar is raised and everyone that has already been playing and leveled start the grind over again which gives time for the newer factions to catch up, this would also work well for the people who started playing from the begining waiting for romulans and cardassians to become available to switch over without having to to start from rock bottom. This is generally used in the new class area but could be used to start a new faction and lessin at least some problems a new faction being added would have. Keep in mind mmos and mmo players are addiction personified. It may take a few months but after that your gonna see a battle with the federation on one side and the klingons on the other trading fire, and then 6 warbirds decloak and ravage both fleets from behind. They made Ramen noodles and energy drinks for a reason.

[Crepuscule]

I had dreams for playing a Cardassian myself... I can settle for what we get though. :cool:

[Napalm006]

alright so my first post ever here.
They made Ramen noodles and energy drinks for a reason.
Yes, Yes they did. LOL

[RookActual]

Well, without a bunch of troublesome facts to support my point of view, the idea of that Romulans can't be their own faction, added in an expansion, is preposterous. Without getting too repetitive, considering that you'll be able to design a Romulan pretty much outright, aside from perhaps uniform, then what in the world would be the point?

Adding them to another faction? Even more ridiculous than just making them a character package. Enough players want Warbirds, Shrikes, Griffins and Raptors, and they don't want to bow down to either the Federation or the Klingon Empire. Adding those ships' capabilities to another faction would either unbalance that faction or just be redundant. The opposing faction would then have to be rebalanced in what would only amount to cheap, shoveled out concepts.

The Romulans will be a playable faction. Possibly the Cardassians later. I'd even imagine if the game lasts long enough we'll see the Dominion. The only major 'faction' I doubt we'll ever see included, and I may doubt it just because I think I'd quit if they were, are the Borg.