Does being part of a "faction" in STO imply a political merger?

[AchillesHeel]

So I've been thinking about the idea that the Ferengi are "part of" the Federation, and the Gorn are part of the Klingon Empire. Frankly, I hate both of those ideas, for what seem to me to be obvious reasons. However, I realized that I'm unclear on whether the Ferengi have joined the Federation or are allied with the Federation (and same with the Klingons and Gorn).

Because that's two entirely separate things.

[Silverspar]

Gorn were "absorbed" by the Klingons, which means to me, it wasn't a willing joining. Furthermore, the Ferengi political climate was already changing at the end of Deep Space 9 as the views were going to more democratic overhaul of Ferenginar, and the Grand Nagus Zek passed his staff onto Rom to become the next Grand Nagus to undertake these new views and goals.

Rom was never a person who beleived in traditional Ferengi values, and furthermore, his son is in Starfleet and a Federation citizen. Most likely Rom, as the Grand Nagus, would be pushing for political reform to get the Ferengi inducted into the Federation.

[Father_Origin]

given that the fed's will take just about any race...if you are loyal and attend academy.
and that the Klingons will (for the most part) take you if you prove yourself
honorable AND loyal.

why bother with any of it, let players be any race as long as they are loyal
to thier faction?

[Volomon]

So I've been thinking about the idea that the Ferengi are "part of" the Federation, and the Gorn are part of the Klingon Empire. Frankly, I hate both of those ideas, for what seem to me to be obvious reasons. However, I realized that I'm unclear on whether the Ferengi have joined the Federation or are allied with the Federation (and same with the Klingons and Gorn).

Because that's two entirely separate things.

Well the Gorn didn't join they were taken over. Apparently the Ferengi have joined, I looked in the STO article in the GI mag and it clearly states Bajor and the Ferengi have joined Starfleet.

[phifur]

So I've been thinking about the idea that the Ferengi are "part of" the Federation, and the Gorn are part of the Klingon Empire. Frankly, I hate both of those ideas, for what seem to me to be obvious reasons. However, I realized that I'm unclear on whether the Ferengi have joined the Federation or are allied with the Federation (and same with the Klingons and Gorn).

Because that's two entirely separate things.

yes I have the same question Join and allied is a big difference. I would hope that the Ferengi are allied with federations so later maybe Ferengi can be a playable faction :D

[AchillesHeel]

Well the Gorn didn't join they were taken over.
Okay. So if that's the case, I'm back to loathing to idea. It simply doesn't make any sense for a conquered race to be in the Klingon Imperial Navy. They never have been and, so long as Klingons are still Klingons, they never would be.

Apparently the Ferengi have joined, I looked in the STO article in the GI mag and it clearly states Bajor and the Ferengi have joined Starfleet.
Be careful about conflating Star Fleet with the United Federation of Planets. There were members of non-Federation species in Star Fleet on the shows, with varying degrees of contact with and allegiance to their home worlds.

Gorn were "absorbed" by the Klingons, which means to me, it wasn't a willing joining.
Right, so if it's a relationship defined by that one word, I think it would be better for the developers to state "Heh. Whoops. We meant that the Gorn are allied with the Klingons. Sorry about the confusion" and move on from there.

Frankly, there's nothing to be gained from monkeying about with the established Star Trek races and politics in this way. Saying that the Gorn are (a) a playable race and (b) a part of the Klingon Empire is a massive change to the Klingons. Saying that the Gorn are (a) allied with the Klingons and (b) fly modified Klingon ships is not. In fact, it actually is in keeping with established Star Trek history.

[maserati813]

i agree with achilles heel

[The.Grand.Nagus]

The gameinformer article said the Gorn were "absorbed" by the Klingons and that the Ferengi "joined the Federation and Starfleet".

[Sovek]

All I can say is take anything you read in a magazine with a grain of salt. You shouldn't base your assumptions of the finished game on a few possibly erroneous word choices by a game journalist.

[Manx]

I am fine with the idea of Klingons incorporating conquered races into their military. I have often wondered how any one species could compete with the Federation in terms of man power. Maybe if they were particularly promiscuous and had a genetic tendency towards multiple births, but that doesn't seem like the Klingons to me.

The Federation is a good deal larger than it was during the last Klingon cold war (especially if the Ferengi have joined); so perhaps the Klingons simply realized that they needed to start taking full advantage of their empires resources.

The Klingons may be very concerned with tradition, but that doesn't mean they can't adjust their practices to suit the times; they would have become extinct long ago if they couldn't.

[Trekkie]

I think that a race being included in a faction does not necessarily mean they are exclusively affiliated with that faction; for example, even though the Ferengi are a part of the Federation, I really hope that somewhere down the line the Ferengi are added as a completely separate faction.

[AchillesHeel]

I am fine with the idea of Klingons incorporating conquered races into their military. I have often wondered how any one species could compete with the Federation in terms of man power.
They can't.

Maybe if they were particularly promiscuous and had a genetic tendency towards multiple births, but that doesn't seem like the Klingons to me.

The Federation is a good deal larger than it was during the last Klingon cold war (especially if the Ferengi have joined); so perhaps the Klingons simply realized that they needed to start taking full advantage of their empires resources.

The Klingons may be very concerned with tradition, but that doesn't mean they can't adjust their practices to suit the times; they would have become extinct long ago if they couldn't.
So how would changing the Klingons be better than an alliance?

Trekkie's post gets at another reason an alliance is a better option: It would allow the devs to dissolve the partnership later, if they wanted to. Shifting political relationships is one of the hallmarks of Star Trek.

[Manx]

So how would changing the Klingons be better than an alliance?

Trekkie's post gets at another reason an alliance is a better option: It would allow the devs to dissolve the partnership later, if they wanted to. Shifting political relationships is one of the hallmarks of Star Trek.

It would be changing the way they operate either way I think. After all, aside from the occasional special mission, you didn't see allied officers serving on Klingon ships during the Dominion war; even after the Breen's energy dampener weapon neutralized everyone else's fleets.

I suppose that could be worked around by having Klingon ships for Klingons, Orion ships for Orions etc; but that would mean Cryptic were deliberately making the Klingon faction less customizable than the Federation. I don't think that would be fair; but I can't see any other way around it without just accepting that the Klingons have changed revised a few of their practices since we last saw them.

[AchillesHeel]

It would be changing the way they operate either way I think. After all, aside from the occasional special mission, you didn't see allied officers serving on Klingon ships during the Dominion war; even after the Breen's energy dampener weapon neutralized everyone else's fleets.
Well, it's already been established that the Klingons will sell weapons to other people, so Gorn using modified Klingon ships doesn't present any problems that I can see.

I suppose that could be worked around by having Klingon ships for Klingons, Orion ships for Orions etc; but that would mean Cryptic were deliberately making the Klingon faction less customizable than the Federation. I don't think that would be fair; but I can't see any other way around it without just accepting that the Klingons have changed revised a few of their practices since we last saw them.
I don't see why this would make the Klingons less customizable. To some degree, they're innately less customizable because they don't have an egalitarian society; everyone in the Klingon Navy would have to be Klingon, by definition. On the other hand, Klingon ships in the hands (or claws) of the Gorn would be a little different (different weapons, no cloaks, etc), so there would be some opportunity for variety there.

So I'm still not seeing any advantage to making the Gorn some kind of conquered-but-equal race within the Empire. From a Klingon perspective, if they were equals, they wouldn't have been conquered. And the more I think about it, the more advantage there is to making it an alliance between two independent societies.

[Merchanter]

It seems I went to different schools and use a different dictionary than everyone else. Since when did absorbed become another word for defeated?

[angrydurf]

The thing to remember about the federation is that it is a federation. The ferengi joining just makes sense (especially if the Klingons are on the warpath again) they would get protection from the federation and lose very little in the way of freedoms (remember the ferengi already break federation trade laws in thier trading with in the federation all the time they will continue as a member race to do so. Sure they won't sell weapons to the federations enemies but they will still trade contraband within the federation just as before. THe federation would likely be hesitant to accept them but they do provide an option for revenue and wars are expensive.

As for the klingon/gorn situation they are an empire an empire conquers/absorbs others its in its nature. The Klingons wouldn't have Gorn in the Imperial navy perhaps but they certainly would outfit them as additional troops, they would get modified Klingon ships and perhaps a different designation but in the end they would be under the Klingon high command and fight the Klingons enemies.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

It seems I went to different schools and use a different dictionary than everyone else. Since when did absorbed become another word for defeated?

When your talking about empires, the word "absorbed" usualy means against someone's will. There are other words such as "joined" or "allied" that usualy mean willingly. One word you might want to look up the definition of is "context".

[Merchanter]

Not necessarly. They may have been WILLING to be absorbed. And you can also be willing and not make it in. an example of this is guam. They have been petitioning to become a state since the 50"s. It is just that everyone wants to beleive that the Gorn were taken in by force. But, I have yet to see anything that says it was by force.

[AchillesHeel]

It seems I went to different schools and use a different dictionary than everyone else. Since when did absorbed become another word for defeated? [...]I have yet to see anything that says it was by force.
This ain't NATO we're talking about here. If you say someone was "greeted with open arms" by the Klingons, it means they fought a war. :D

The thing to remember about the federation is that it is a federation. The ferengi joining just makes sense (especially if the Klingons are on the warpath again) they would get protection from the federation and lose very little in the way of freedoms (remember the ferengi already break federation trade laws in thier trading with in the federation all the time they will continue as a member race to do so. Sure they won't sell weapons to the federations enemies but they will still trade contraband within the federation just as before. THe federation would likely be hesitant to accept them but they do provide an option for revenue and wars are expensive.
Setting aside whether or not it makes sense for Ferenginar to have joined the Federation... What does either Star Trek or Star Trek Online gain from saying that they have? Less and less, every time I look at it. On the other hand, saying that the two are in an alliance gets more intriguing by the hour.

[Bastrol]

I agree with Manx. I have always wondered why the Klingons didn't have other races in their military (not to mention the Romulans and Cardies too), and I think the simple answer is budget on the shows, which made it lore. The way I look at it is the Klingons may accept Gorn or Orion etc into their military on an individual basis if their family served the Empire with honour. Kind of an exception to the rule.
Just my 2 bits.

[AchillesHeel]

I agree with Manx. I have always wondered why the Klingons didn't have other races in their military (not to mention the Romulans and Cardies too), and I think the simple answer is budget on the shows, which made it lore.
You might be right about the budget thing, but speculating about how it came about is a far cry from saying it should be changed. The fact that the Klingons are occasionally willing to sell ships to their allies supposedly resulted from something similar: While filming an episode of TOS, someone irreparably damaged the Romulan Warbird model. Unable to repair it, they painted an avian motif on the hull of their Klingon D-7, and thus was born the Romulan-Klingon alliance. (Memory Alpha says this story has never been confirmed, but it's a fun story, true or not.)

The point is, we know that there are non-Klingons in the Empire, but that they didn't serve on Imperial Navy ships. We can try to guess at why this is so - within the story, I mean - but you can't say it isn't true.

The way I look at it is the Klingons may accept Gorn or Orion etc into their military on an individual basis if their family served the Empire with honour. Kind of an exception to the rule.
Just my 2 bits.
Based on what? You could certainly make an interesting story out of a non-Klingon somehow earning his or her way onto a Klingon ship, but the reason it would be interesting is because it would contradict the established story. In fact, it would have to be an interesting story, in order to plausibly explain the discrepancy. Anyway, you couldn't use a unique character - even if one exists - as a template for playable characters in an MMO, because then they wouldn't be unique anymore. MMO developers are by definition painting with a massively broad brush (pun intended ;) ).