Ok, one server looks good on paper, but...

[Father_Origin]

Ok, I know that cryptic CAN make a one server game...but it is a poor choice for this type
of game.

One server does not really fit all three basic play styles that this game will have.

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)

By making only one server type, the Hardcore groups ( 1 and 3 ) will dislike a major part of your
game. Only group 2 will be fully happy. If you think group 1 and 3 will LEARN to like it..they won't.

All the top MMO's KNOW this, that is why they have multiple servers on faction
oriented games.

What about Eve? That caters to group 1...and group 1 only....Eve is basically just a PvP game.

Back to the subject....It doesn't matter if you can make one server work, you can't make
everyone happy UNLESS you offer them a choice.

Give them the 3 servers...everyone wins, most will be happy.

[DFawkes]

I'm happy about either 1 or several servers.

If it is one server, it'll work fine. If I want to RP, I'll join a group. If I want PvP, I'm sure you'll be able to flag it on or off in deep space, or go to an arena-like area. I do see where you're coming from in that it may make more players play to a specific style, and furthur game updates might gear towards that. So it'd probably be better to have different servers, but I'd be okay with 1.

[Volomon]

Ok, I know that cryptic CAN make a one server game...but it is a poor choice for this type
of game.

One server does not really fit all three basic play styles that this game will have.

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)

By making only one server type, the Hardcore groups ( 1 and 3 ) will dislike a major part of your
game. Only group 2 will be fully happy. If you think group 1 and 3 will LEARN to like it..they won't.

All the top MMO's KNOW this, that is why they have multiple servers on faction
oriented games.

What about Eve? That caters to group 1...and group 1 only....Eve is basically just a PvP game.

Back to the subject....It doesn't matter if you can make one server work, you can't make
everyone happy UNLESS you offer them a choice.

Give them the 3 servers...everyone wins, most will be happy.

Well we already know they are not doing 1, so that's out the window. RPers can RP anywhere if they are unable to do so on a normal server they are kidding themselves in the first place. As everyone knows just cause it says RP on it doesn't mean everyone RPs. Your lucky if all the names sound RP.

I think it's fine the way it is.

[ajaco3025]

Ok, I know that cryptic CAN make a one server game...but it is a poor choice for this type
of game.

One server does not really fit all three basic play styles that this game will have.

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)

By making only one server type, the Hardcore groups ( 1 and 3 ) will dislike a major part of your
game. Only group 2 will be fully happy. If you think group 1 and 3 will LEARN to like it..they won't.

All the top MMO's KNOW this, that is why they have multiple servers on faction
oriented games.

What about Eve? That caters to group 1...and group 1 only....Eve is basically just a PvP game.

Back to the subject....It doesn't matter if you can make one server work, you can't make
everyone happy UNLESS you offer them a choice.

Give them the 3 servers...everyone wins, most will be happy.

I'd have to disagree with the assumption that one server will kill the game. You can have all three play styles on one server. It depends on how they set up the zones and the mechanics. You still have a choice. To PvP or not to PvP.

Should I do a mission? Ok, I'm goin to sector 0293 and fight some Borg.

Lets go to the Neutral zone and kill some Feds.

As for Eve, it doesn't cater to just one group. I'd say the PvEers outnumber the PvPers. At least that is what I last heard from a Dev. I've spent many days trying to find fights in null sec. I can go to high sec and find all kinds of PvEers.


Three servers increases costs and a few other things. Personally, I'd stick with one but that is just what I'm use to.

[KidBang]

Yeah, I don't see any reason these things can't happen on one server.

[KO_Gilligan]

Alot of people confuse the Server limitations with the pipeline limitations. My understanding is that Multiple servers are created for a pipeline limitation.... With main Internet pipes increasing in size in the near future, isn't one super massive server usually going to be the preferred way to go?

Any IT guys confirm this for me?

[KidBang]

And the game will probably have a lot of instancing, so that also eliminates a big concern about one server. You don't have to beam down to a planet to find that someone already picked up the cargo and you'll have to wait an hoiur for it to respawn.

[Nyanya]

Well we already know they are not doing 1, so that's out the window. RPers can RP anywhere if they are unable to do so on a normal server they are kidding themselves in the first place. As everyone knows just cause it says RP on it doesn't mean everyone RPs. Your lucky if all the names sound RP.

I think it's fine the way it is.
I disagree.

Can I roleplay on any server? Sure.

But roleplaying is fairly meaningless when playing alone. For roleplaying to truly come alive you need to be roleplaying with other people and the game needs to create an environment where roleplaying and roleplayers are encouraged.

Does that always work? No. The “RP” tag on a server doesn’t guarantee a roleplaying environment. But it will make it more likely as it gives a central place for roleplayers to flock to (hence making the concentration of roleplayers stronger than on other servers) and it gives the developers the chance to encourage roleplaying through roleplaying server rules (like forbidden to use unsuitable names, restricted to IC chat in global channels, not allowed to disrupt roleplaying events, etc). Again, those don’t guarantee roleplaying by any means, but they sure encourage it.

Thus if you have one designated roleplaying server, and it certainly shouldn’t be more, certainly not at launch, then you create an environment where roleplayers have a significantly increased[i] chance to run into other roleplayers and random roleplaying. And believe me that can make all the difference in the world.

Now, they don’t have to have designated roleplaying [i]servers, but at the very least I’d like to see designated roleplaying instances (assuming they take a similar approach to instancing all zones as they did in CoX). Let roleplayers choose to play in roleplaying instances where they not only have an increased chance of randomly running into other roleplayers and roleplaying, but also a significantly decreased chance of running into people just playing the game not caring a thing about staying IC (and thus unwittingly ruining the atmosphere for roleplayers).

CoX was the worst MMO for roleplaying (now supplanted by WAR IMHO); any roleplaying found there was despite the game and not because of it. Please do not make the same mistake again with STO.

[Nytok]

I do know that their are designated areas on the game. The Neutral Zone is all about PvP and is basically all out warfare on the other faction and later factions. You can go out into deep space and explore new planets with new resources (which helps out your faction and the guys who keep on going to the Neutral Zone) and designated missions by your faction (which also helps). Nobody has to go out into combat and every kind of thing you want to do helps your faction out anyways. This allows everyone on a single server to be happy, just go do what you want to do. And if your tired of constant combat for example, you can go and explore the farthest reaches of space or do a mission for your faction. Later, when you rejoin the combat, your gonna be stronger. I think that this is the best and most awesome way to go.

[Silverspar]

I disagree.

Can I roleplay on any server? Sure.

But roleplaying is fairly meaningless when playing alone. For roleplaying to truly come alive you need to be roleplaying with other people and the game needs to create an environment where roleplaying and roleplayers are encouraged.

Does that always work? No. The “RP” tag on a server doesn’t guarantee a roleplaying environment. But it will make it more likely as it gives a central place for roleplayers to flock to (hence making the concentration of roleplayers stronger than on other servers) and it gives the developers the chance to encourage roleplaying through roleplaying server rules (like forbidden to use unsuitable names, restricted to IC chat in global channels, not allowed to disrupt roleplaying events, etc). Again, those don’t guarantee roleplaying by any means, but they sure encourage it.

Thus if you have one designated roleplaying server, and it certainly shouldn’t be more, certainly not at launch, then you create an environment where roleplayers have a significantly increased[i] chance to run into other roleplayers and random roleplaying. And believe me that can make all the difference in the world.

Now, they don’t have to have designated roleplaying [i]servers, but at the very least I’d like to see designated roleplaying instances (assuming they take a similar approach to instancing all zones as they did in CoX). Let roleplayers choose to play in roleplaying instances where they not only have an increased chance of randomly running into other roleplayers and roleplaying, but also a significantly decreased chance of running into people just playing the game not caring a thing about staying IC (and thus unwittingly ruining the atmosphere for roleplayers).

CoX was the worst MMO for roleplaying (now supplanted by WAR IMHO); any roleplaying found there was despite the game and not because of it. Please do not make the same mistake again with STO.

I will disagree with your disagreement. I could find RP where ever I wanted to, if I actually was looking for it in CoX. Saying it's the worst MMO for RP is a farce because it actually one of the few that makes it easy to promote. WoW is a joke for RP, because they don't evne enforce their RP rules on the RP server sets.

We don't need seperate servers for allt hese rulesets. You just need to know where to look to find things, or actually start scoiallizing and building friends. Plan on making DWF an RP group, no matter if it's one server or if we have to pick one, and we will undoubtedly do that even in PvP. It's always a nice thing making 1337 people cry when they get beat by an RPer :p

[Father_Origin]

agrees with the prior poster (the drow)

ok, something the non-Trekie gamers prob don't understand.

Trekies are not like..say wow RPers...true Trekies LIVE trek...they are
TOTAL dedicated to Trek 24/7 period.

They don't want to see a 'pink' ship EVER, they do not want to see a
ship with the name 'PWNUNOW' on a ship EVER.

and as you can see from the 'players as crewman thread' and the constant re-asking
cryptic to change that at EVERY live meet and greet...they never, ever give in.

Check the videos

Can players be crew members? no
next person
Why can't they be crew members? this is why....
next person
You can make players crew members if you do this. no
next person
Having players as crew members follows star trek lore, why don't you do it? shakes head

the Trekies will need their own server...no doubt at all.....might as well do it from the start

[ajaco3025]

agrees with the prior poster

ok, something the non-Trekie gamers prob don't understand.

Trekies are not like..say wow RPers...true Trekies LIVE trek...they are
TOTAL dedicated to Trek 24/7 period.

They don't want to see a 'pink' ship EVER, they do not want to see a
ship with the name 'PWNUNOW' on a ship EVER.

and as you can see from the 'players as crewman thread' and the constant re-asking
cryptic to change that at EVERY live meet and greet...they never, ever give in.

Check the videos

Can players be crew members? no
next person
Why can't they be crew members? this is why....
next person
You can make players crew members if you do this. no
next person
Having players as crew members follows star trek lore, why don't you do it? shakes head

the Trekies will need their own server...no doubt at all.....might as well do it from the start

Giving them their own server I think would definately cause many to not like them. Catering to one group is fundamentally wrong.

[Volomon]

Alot of people confuse the Server limitations with the pipeline limitations. My understanding is that Multiple servers are created for a pipeline limitation.... With main Internet pipes increasing in size in the near future, isn't one super massive server usually going to be the preferred way to go?

Any IT guys confirm this for me?

No I don't think you understand. When people refer to the "Server" they don't mean a single entity. As in a singular server. The "server" is often comprised of many servers that combine into one powerful "server". Think of it like Voltron or some other robot that combines. Its one combined entity but its not made up of just one.

[Volomon]

This game is suppose to be massive, with more and more planets added all the time. Getting everyone on one server will make sure there are people interacting at all hours of the day in all areas of the universe. Dividing it up would really put a damper in that.

[Silverspar]

No I don't think you understand. When people refer to the "Server" they don't mean a single entity. As in a singular server. The "server" is often comprised of many servers that combine into one powerful "server". Think of it like Voltron or some other robot that combines. Its one combined entity but its not made up of just one.

That's typically called a cluster. A server is typically what you connect to to access the clusters information. Generally speaking, if I recall my IT schooling, the only thing in the past preventing large gaming servers was the pipeline. Though I can't say it's a resolved issue, with many of the techniques out there lately for online games, it shouldn't be a major issue. Now, the flip, how many people could be on one server cluster at a time? That's a major question in and of itself. After all, if STO get's 2 million subscribers, would one server be enough to handle the strain?

[eNDIE]

The different gamestyle will probably find their own hotspots so i dont see any problems pvprs will go to the neutral zone etc.

[KO_Gilligan]

That's typically called a cluster. A server is typically what you connect to to access the clusters information. Generally speaking, if I recall my IT schooling, the only thing in the past preventing large gaming servers was the pipeline. Though I can't say it's a resolved issue, with many of the techniques out there lately for online games, it shouldn't be a major issue. Now, the flip, how many people could be on one server cluster at a time? That's a major question in and of itself. After all, if STO get's 2 million subscribers, would one server be enough to handle the strain?

(QFT)

2 Million ?

Woooo Hoooo

I T ' S

P A R T Y

T I M E

[ajaco3025]

That's typically called a cluster. A server is typically what you connect to to access the clusters information. Generally speaking, if I recall my IT schooling, the only thing in the past preventing large gaming servers was the pipeline. Though I can't say it's a resolved issue, with many of the techniques out there lately for online games, it shouldn't be a major issue. Now, the flip, how many people could be on one server cluster at a time? That's a major question in and of itself. After all, if STO get's 2 million subscribers, would one server be enough to handle the strain?

Aah, but not all 2 million will be online at the same time. 300 - 500k at a time and at different times of the day perhaps? It would be wild to see that many subsribers.

Then there is the lag issue. Usually if you get 500-700 people in one area, Engage LAG Dampeners!

[Father_Origin]

lol I know that cryptic can do it


we are not talking if it can be done....yes it can

we are talking about The Players, not the physical server.

The Trekie player will NOT want to play with the non-trekie players.
and this is how they will deal with a mixed trekie / nontrekie one server.

They will bury (litterally) cryptic in complaints...forever.

I like trek, but am not a trekie..I know trekies.


What all you non-trekies still need to understand is, as far as the trekies are
concerned...this is thier game, not yours. and they overall..outnumber you.

ever been to a major star trek convension?....scary


but it doesn't matter...if they do not have a specific Trekie server..with strick canon rules
...they will, cryptic will be forced to, sooner or later.

[Silverspar]

Aah, but not all 2 million will be online at the same time. 300 - 500k at a time and at different times of the day perhaps? It would be wild to see that many subsribers.

Then there is the lag issue. Usually if you get 500-700 people in one area, Engage LAG Dampeners!

Lag by volume is typically the result of video card and RAM. Most MMOs solve that by installing a draw limit on the ammount of mobile objects that can be on the screen at one time. Other MMos put in artificial limitations based on the fact that everyone starts looking the same eventually, like in WoW. STo will be somewhat different since players will have the option to put in some design changes to their starships as well as racial appearances.

Space flight and combat will undoubtedly be less processor intensive, as most space situations would be a skymap with a few objects in an area, sometimes no objects at all. It would be ground areas that would possibly be a bit clostrophobic, though Cryptic, in the past, has used a system for hubs and such where the server will brnach itself into specific hubs where players can join those.

But being optimistic, and saying that STO attracts 2 million subscribers. Was just a random number, and still, one would have to take and consider if the actual cluster could handle that kind of information transfer. I don't doubt that there are some great super clusters out there, as I am sure fileplanet and the like get tons of hits daily, but MMOs haven't really attempted anything like that, with EVE Online being the only thing close to it.

[UnSub]

What all you non-trekies still need to understand is, as far as the trekies are
concerned...this is thier game, not yours. and they overall..outnumber you.


No, they don't.

Besides, you are using Trekkie as an all encompassing term when there are many sub-groups. Should there be a separate server for Trekkies who only like TOS? Who reject Enterprise as a series from the canon? Who only want to play if they can be alongside TNG? Do we need a Klingon-only language server?

One server will bring a lot more people together and if they choose to ignore certain types of other player, then that's fine. Splitting servers only leads to minorities of minorities playing on them.

[ajaco3025]

Lag by volume is typically the result of video card and RAM. Most MMOs solve that by installing a draw limit on the ammount of mobile objects that can be on the screen at one time. Other MMos put in artificial limitations based on the fact that everyone starts looking the same eventually, like in WoW. STo will be somewhat different since players will have the option to put in some design changes to their starships as well as racial appearances.

Space flight and combat will undoubtedly be less processor intensive, as most space situations would be a skymap with a few objects in an area, sometimes no objects at all. It would be ground areas that would possibly be a bit clostrophobic, though Cryptic, in the past, has used a system for hubs and such where the server will brnach itself into specific hubs where players can join those.

But being optimistic, and saying that STO attracts 2 million subscribers. Was just a random number, and still, one would have to take and consider if the actual cluster could handle that kind of information transfer. I don't doubt that there are some great super clusters out there, as I am sure fileplanet and the like get tons of hits daily, but MMOs haven't really attempted anything like that, with EVE Online being the only thing close to it.

I couldn't agree with you more on that. I'm not a hardware guy but I do get the gist of what you are saying. Even with Eve being the closest, the PvP battles that have a few hundred become a lag fest. Even those with high speed computers. The last 600+ man fight I was in took hours to get through because the framerate dropped so low no one could tell if they had died. Then when the enemy tried to jump in four of their Titans and Motherships.. the node crashed.

Even in the high sec areas, if 100+ PvEers gathered in one system on a gate, station or some other public structure, lag fest. Not near as bad since no one is fighting but your computer is trying to take in all the new data as you warp in to the area which lags a bit.

I don't think we would have to worry about those kind of numbers for PvP fights in STO. I assume anyways.

[Nyanya]

I could find RP where ever I wanted to, if I actually was looking for it in CoX.
Ah yes, if you were looking for it (which btw I’ve tried as well and was less than successful with; maybe you were just lucky in the server you chose). But could you say that roleplaying could find you, that you could stumble into it without looking for it?

Now, don’t you think that the chances of you finding roleplaying (and roleplaying finding you) are much increased when playing in a place indicated as being dedicated to roleplaying?

WoW is a joke for RP, because they don't evne enforce their RP rules on the RP server sets.
Perhaps, but WoW at least had roleplaying servers and RP rules. Believe me though, WoW was a close second behind CoX.

You just need to know where to look to find things, or actually start scoiallizing and building friends.
Friends is one thing. But to make roleplaying truly rich you need to be able to go beyond just your group of friends. Even when not actively roleplaying or when my friends/guild aren’t online I want to be able to walk through the promenade on DS9 and randomly walk into other people roleplaying that I could be drawn into or just use to enhance the general atmosphere for me. In places not designated for roleplaying (I’m trying to stay away from saying “servers” as “instances” works just as well) you might find the odd sprinkling of RP here and there if you’re lucky, but for the most part the vast majority of people will be running back and forth doing missions, talking about game mechanics and discussing last night’s sports event on tv, etc.

Give me a place where I have an increased chance of running into other roleplayers. That isn’t really that much to ask, is it?

[Silverspar]

I couldn't agree with you more on that. I'm not a hardware guy but I do get the gist of what you are saying. Even with Eve being the closest, the PvP battles that have a few hundred become a lag fest. Even those with high speed computers. The last 600+ man fight I was in took hours to get through because the framerate dropped so low no one could tell if they had died. Then when the enemy tried to jump in four of their Titans and Motherships.. the node crashed.

Even in the high sec areas, if 100+ PvEers gathered in one system on a gate, station or some other public structure, lag fest. Not near as bad since no one is fighting but your computer is trying to take in all the new data as you warp in to the area which lags a bit.

I don't think we would have to worry about those kind of numbers for PvP fights in STO. I assume anyways.

Depends on how fun they make the PvP in STO which I hope will be very fun. The main PvE portions of space will probably be a bit easier on systems, since you won't have to worry about the 50 ship fleet gank fest running through blasting everything that moves.

[Allardyn]

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
- This is not the game for hardcore PvP, never was meant to be.

2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
- Every single MMO I can think of that has PvP is mixed, even hardcore pvp servers (See AoC/EvE)

3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)
- The entire game is suppose to be RP hence the MMORPG. though we all know this only ever goes so far, expect nothing less here

[Father_Origin]

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
- This is not the game for hardcore PvP, never was meant to be.
(( LOL tell that to all the hardcore gamers here ))

2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
- Every single MMO I can think of that has PvP is mixed, even hardcore pvp servers (See AoC/EvE)
(( ah ya...and ? ))
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)
- The entire game is suppose to be RP hence the MMORPG. though we all know this only ever goes so far, expect nothing less here

Ah....number three is telling....the game is SUPPOSE to be RP
your a trekie

thats fine, let me ask a question
If given a choice, would you prefer to play on a server with just star trek fans that..pretty much
stay canon? or a server with Hardcore 'twinked out' players that min/max and couldn't give
a darn about canon that also have, more normal players that play normal but really get tired
of hearing hail done in character...and tell you that.? which would you prefer?

[ajaco3025]

oops, wrong thread.

[Allardyn]

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
- This is not the game for hardcore PvP, never was meant to be.
(( LOL tell that to all the hardcore gamers here ))
- I just did, but they all already know that, at least the ones who read more then the first page did.

2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
- Every single MMO I can think of that has PvP is mixed, even hardcore pvp servers (See AoC/EvE)
(( ah ya...and ? ))
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)
- The entire game is suppose to be RP hence the MMORPG. though we all know this only ever goes so far, expect nothing less here

[Edrick]

If they only have one server they will have problems with lag causing the game to crash and having problems with over 1000 players want to go to AH system AKA Jita for all of you EVE players and not to mention no matter what kind of Faction PVP system they will have in place if they do not have different servers for at least PvE and PvP then its going to be something like this.

I wish to be an explore and studdy unknown space, witch is what Star Trek is all about, however you cant because fleets all ready own all of the unexplored space and will shoot anyone who is not part of their fleet regardless of what faction you are in. This WILL happen if their is just one type of server. Remember if people can do something they WILL do it.

I dont understand why this company just does not make 2 server types....

[Silverspar]

If they only have one server they will have problems with lag causing the game to crash and having problems with over 1000 players want to go to AH system AKA Jita for all of you EVE players and not to mention no matter what kind of Faction PVP system they will have in place if they do not have different servers for at least PvE and PvP then its going to be something like this.

I wish to be an explore and studdy unknown space, witch is what Star Trek is all about, however you cant because fleets all ready own all of the unexplored space and will shoot anyone who is not part of their fleet regardless of what faction you are in. This WILL happen if their is just one type of server. Remember if people can do something they WILL do it.

I dont understand why this company just does not make 2 server types....

Wow, if that isn't the biggest misconceptions I ever read. First, PvP is locked into it's own little sectors. Second, there will NOT be seperate PvP and PvE servers, per the FAQ.

[ajaco3025]

If they only have one server they will have problems with lag causing the game to crash and having problems with over 1000 players want to go to AH system AKA Jita for all of you EVE players and not to mention no matter what kind of Faction PVP system they will have in place if they do not have different servers for at least PvE and PvP then its going to be something like this.

I wish to be an explore and studdy unknown space, witch is what Star Trek is all about, however you cant because fleets all ready own all of the unexplored space and will shoot anyone who is not part of their fleet regardless of what faction you are in. This WILL happen if their is just one type of server. Remember if people can do something they WILL do it.

I dont understand why this company just does not make 2 server types....

Wow, if that isn't the biggest misconceptions I ever read. First, PvP is locked into it's own little sectors. Second, there will NOT be seperate PvP and PvE servers, per the FAQ.

Wow, someone record this but I'm agreeing with Silver for a second time! OMG In the same thread even!

Edrick, there was more to Jita than the number of people that caused it to lag. People were in there intentionally trying to make things worse so they could gank people at the gates.

[awhite75]

I don't know why people keep assuming there is only going to be one server. There is going to be more than one server, that's all we know. Things can and will change.

[Silverspar]

I don't know why people keep assuming there is only going to be one server. There is going to be more than one server, that's all we know. Things can and will change.

We don't know that either. You are assuming. Jack said, in the interview, that they would like to do one server, but haven't decided yet to go with one or multiple servers.

[griplocke]

OK unless I have not read it stated somewhere, the one server is only referring to the ruleset, not the physical device .. ie one server == one ruleset

Typically in games there are multiple types of servers. Servers can either be a single physical and logical machine or it can be multiple physical machines "clustered" together to make a single logical server. Normally one cluster can serve one or more named servers in the "server list" inside the game. So for instance you could have a single cluster that hosts all the server names for the west coast. Now again typically there are multiple logical servers to support those names, like a dedicated map server, chat server, backend database server for items and such ... basically unless the game is only running about 100 people expect there to be allot more than one physical server. I would expect to see a few different named servers (east and west coast servers for instance) and with the information from the FAQ's all those servers will have the same ruleset.

Now for the actual topic. I am fine with the one ruleset approach. I personally feel that unless you have WoW numbers, breaking up the population by rulesets is overkill. It typically makes all the servers too sparse. Given that there will be areas to do PvP the real question for PvP'rs is how much can they actually stay in those areas and still progress in the game. People that expect to solely RP will do what they do in most other games, consolidate on one server and claim it as your own. People like me will wander over there at some point and say to myself "wth is going on over here" then quickly run back to another server =)

[OrabIbo]

I single server makes it easier to find your friends. without having to worry about them ending up on other servers. If they happened to start on a different server. Often times when this happens one or the other person will not moved because they ahve to much invested on the other server.

And the only limiting factor for server bandwidth and hardware is cost. By using virtualized servers you can create several load balanced zones. In fact you can program these servers to adjust their settings while they play the game. If more the population of one area spikes. then more resources out of the total virtualized cluster will be allocated to that server automatically. IF set that way. In such a large game like an MMO this can sometimes put a computer up against a wall. As if multiple servers require more resources at the same time. The conflict won't hurt anything but peformance. as they have all maxed out their available resources and now have hit a wall until more are added. Adding more hardware to the problem increases cost.

And we are back to the money thing again.

And I heard somebody mention about Server bandwidth. this is not a limitation. What is a limitation is how much the company wants to spend to expand it. As getting more bandwith is simply as easy as adding another NIC to the server and another connection to the internet. Let's say that connection you just installed does not have enough data going through it to maximize it's bandwidth. Well with Virtualization you can tell more than one server to share the same NIC card until the bandwidth is eventually maximized.

There is alot more specifics to this than what I mentioned. I only grazed the surface.

But how I wish to experience what it must be like to be an IT administrator for an MMO company!! :D

[Lord_Xomic]

Edrick, there was more to Jita than the number of people that caused it to lag. People were in there intentionally trying to make things worse so they could gank people at the gates.

Err, no, Jita and the surrounding areas lagged a lot because the regional market was changing about once every 2 nano seconds, which puts a great deal of strain on the server and on your computer, which has to download that information from the server (if you have your market screen open)

[griplocke]

While I would agree with you that the biggest challenge is cost I would disagree with using virtualization for game servers. There really is no point in doing so. Virtualiziation is used to consolidate multiple applications onto a limited amount of hardware. Given the overhead and the fact that the various pieces of the server system will need dedicated hardware (for instance cpu time should not be split between the combat functions and someone managing inventory) I would think any advantages that virtualization could bring would quickly be outweighed.

In a normal clustered environment you can bring new nodes on for scalability and depending on if its Windows Server, Unix, BSD or some flavor of Linux the numbers vary. Also each server in the cluster has its own NIC and I would assume the datacenter that is hosting the hardware has at least an OC3 connection so really network bandwidth is not an issue server side, thats more of a problem client side. Also their are other factors like do you want your entire playerbase to be on the same hardware, which means in the event of an issue no one can play or do you mitigate outages to smaller groups of players but seperating hardware.

Ultimately aside from my own thoughts on how to design the infrastructure, it comes down to when they said one server I believe it meant one ruleset.

[ajaco3025]

Err, no, Jita and the surrounding areas lagged a lot because the regional market was changing about once every 2 nano seconds, which puts a great deal of strain on the server and on your computer, which has to download that information from the server (if you have your market screen open)

Yeah, that too. I didn't think of that until after I posted. More of that was happening than the ganking but the ganking didn't help either.

[Lord_Xomic]

Yeah, that too. I didn't think of that until after I posted. More of that was happening than the ganking but the ganking didn't help either.

I'm not even sure you could get ganked.

Too much lag imo.

[Volomon]

That's typically called a cluster. A server is typically what you connect to to access the clusters information. Generally speaking, if I recall my IT schooling, the only thing in the past preventing large gaming servers was the pipeline. Though I can't say it's a resolved issue, with many of the techniques out there lately for online games, it shouldn't be a major issue. Now, the flip, how many people could be on one server cluster at a time? That's a major question in and of itself. After all, if STO get's 2 million subscribers, would one server be enough to handle the strain?

Yes they are clusters. Pipeline (client side) is an issue and probably will remain an issue for years to come there is actually a government imposed limit on speed for individual use. That aside though our pipelines are just not up to date as those in other countries. There could literally be millions of people on one cluster, the limit there is not the servers but the players PCs due to the overwhelming graphical data aka to many ships in one spot. To answer this you would have to know what kind of hubs they will have will you be able to access major things like the bank and other common things like that from tons of places.

The main problem here is popular places like Earth will it be crowded? Why would it be crowded, ect ect, in that case they would either have to instance multiple sectors that are popular or create new "Servers".

Those talking about markets lagging you, totally false, try accessing Google and search something. Do you lag? All you have to do is take the data mirror it on multiple servers so that not just one server is being hit for information. Thats it.

[Redshirt_40067]

I've been a Trek fan (not a Trekkie or Trekker) since before most of you were born. I have never been to a convention (GASP!) and not been able to make opening day for every movie. I did make ST:TMP thru ST:VI though. I was deployed for release of each movie after except Nemesis. I always laughed at people dressed as Klingons or wearing Starfleet uniforms at movie premiers. I am also one that would argue to expand what is considered "canon" because the novels (most) are a good source of backstory. That said, I would also support having special ruleset servers, so the RPers (and there will be hordes of them) will have a place to call home, and a all-PvP server for the majority of the gankmonkeys to inhabit. There has been no legitimate reason given for not having one of each except Jack said no. I guess you all never heard of EQ and Brad or SWG and Raph Koster. They each steered initial development for their respective games, and later were either bought out ot brushed aside by the people who really matter in the MMO industry - the accountants and managers. I'll wager my strips of gold-pressed latinum we will eventually, if not at launch, see one or both RP or PvP servers.

[OrabIbo]

While I would agree with you that the biggest challenge is cost I would disagree with using virtualization for game servers. There really is no point in doing so. Virtualiziation is used to consolidate multiple applications onto a limited amount of hardware. Given the overhead and the fact that the various pieces of the server system will need dedicated hardware (for instance cpu time should not be split between the combat functions and someone managing inventory) I would think any advantages that virtualization could bring would quickly be outweighed.

I see your point, and I understand that some aspects of the entire infrastructure would need to be hardware. But considering the sheer size of the galaxy they wish to create. There will be many areas in the game that will be vacant for possibly days. (IF it's as large as I am imagining)
These areas could would have very minimal load and probably only have 1 or 2 ppl in them. If a whole physical server was dedicated to those systems then alot of those CPU cycles would go unused.

So they could group zones that are under used on these virtualized servers, and leave physical servers for busy high traffic areas. I'm just looking at this from a cost savings point of view.

There is also some advantage to sticking to a simplistic approach and use clustered servers in the traditional sense. I've just recently been researching and working with virtualization. And am in impressed with what it can do!

And keep in mind I'm refering to OS independent virtualization, where the Hypervisor is the OS. Otherwise I can see where the overhead would become more of a problem.

I can see this Hybrid approach to networking making it unecessarily complicated also :)
But I just think MMO's could benefit from server technology that can dynamically change depending on demand. (PS: it's nice to know that I can talk like this and at least SOMEONE understands me! lol)

[indigowhale345]

I feel the need to chime in a bit on a few things.

Firstly, in character roleplay is up to you and you alone as a player. As much as I understand the lack of an IC environment hurting the will to stay IC, its still your personal willpower issue to deal with. There are plenty of people out there who are the 'weirdos' on servers, who stay in character when no one else is and continue to roleplay for their own satisfaction, surely happy to get a few other people to join them in character, even if its just for a few minutes. If you want an IC server then you have to make it one, and that means actively steering it towards an IC environment, not with complaints or petitions or silly restrictions, but simply by being in character and encouraging others to do the same. And if you haven't guessed yet, IC is not the same as RP, roleplaying doesn't require someone to be in character, as every other MMORPG should prove.

Second, PVP and ICRP are NOT mutually exclusive. We are talking different like chicken and beef tacos different. Its just a different base, and sure it tastes a bit different and looks a bit different, whether its someone who just loves to PVP, or someone who sees PVP as an important outgrowth of the story and IC interactions, but the end result is still a taco, or in this case, PVP. Yeah there are lots of ICRPers who don't like PVP. There are lots of non-ICRPers who don't like PVP. There are PVPers who don't like ICRP. There are PVPers who are fully IC. I guarantee you, if there is an "RP" server where PVP is completely disallowed, its never going to be popular.

And finally on the topic of server architecture, I fully support the idea of one single server setup where everyone coexists. As my experience with other MMOs has proven to me, its much better if everyone is together, because everyone wants to be together, whether for economy reasons or raiding reasons or popularity reasons or whatever. The only thing that should stop it from happening, in my opinion, is hardware/software, if its physically impossible to contain everyone in one contiguous environment because the system can't handle it. Content and space doesn't sound like it will be limited in STO, so we shouldn't have vast overcrowding on a single server.

[Trekkie]

I would prefer for Star Trek Online to have only one server, because I think it would contribute to the massive feeling of the universe; that being said, there are definitely some benefits to having multiple servers so I would not be opposed to the idea of having separate servers focusing on different types of playstyles.

[Tranca0]

Instancing is a BIG no-no. We all saw what happened with AoC and just about everything being instanced. NO! Doing instances just creates WAY too many problems. Especially when you are in groups.

They will have to use their programming brains to make sure they can scale their servers/cluster to where it is needed at that point in time. And have the hardware available.

And let us not forget, that the biggest issue where lag happens is NOT on the server/cluster side, its the client side. Any server can handle hugh amounts of data. Its that little pesky desk-top or lap-top with low or med-end gear that creates the bottleneck. And this usually happens right at the graphics card. Your gpfx card can only render so many items per second. You net connection and the server speed can deliver insanely larger amounts of data than your card or PC can keep up with.

Even high-end gear can't really keep up with as much data that could be sent to a PC. But its a big help compared to your avg PC system these days.


As for the server, you only need one. If space is truly going to be as big as they say, we should not have too much to worry about. PvE'ers can go be by themselves unless they want to stray into PvP areas. The PvP'ers can go about their business in the frontier areas trying to setup shop with PvP actually meaning something to the larger picture( a la the PvP thread), and all the rest can do both.

Even you're Rp'ers can make their fleets and they can interact with the other RP'ers. No one needs their own server. ESPECIALLY if you are striving for a player-driven economy. You would just be shooting yourself in the head by dispersing all those people to different shards. Far less consumers to buy your goods. Or make your economy viable(if you are Cryptic).

[Father_Origin]

I've been a Trek fan (not a Trekkie or Trekker) since before most of you were born. I have never been to a convention (GASP!) and not been able to make opening day for every movie. I did make ST:TMP thru ST:VI though. I was deployed for release of each movie after except Nemesis. I always laughed at people dressed as Klingons or wearing Starfleet uniforms at movie premiers. I am also one that would argue to expand what is considered "canon" because the novels (most) are a good source of backstory. That said, I would also support having special ruleset servers, so the RPers (and there will be hordes of them) will have a place to call home, and a all-PvP server for the majority of the gankmonkeys to inhabit. There has been no legitimate reason given for not having one of each except Jack said no. I guess you all never heard of EQ and Brad or SWG and Raph Koster. They each steered initial development for their respective games, and later were either bought out ot brushed aside by the people who really matter in the MMO industry - the accountants and managers. I'll wager my strips of gold-pressed latinum we will eventually, if not at launch, see one or both RP or PvP servers.

yup, agreed
If a single server makes X amount of profit after expenses, and several different
server types make X+$1 after expenses....the accountants and investors will go with the X+$1 model.

[k.mpok]

I would prefer for Star Trek Online to have only one server, because I think it would contribute to the massive feeling of the universe; that being said, there are definitely some benefits to having multiple servers so I would not be opposed to the idea of having separate servers focusing on different types of playstyles.

That is my biggest problem with one server tho. The trekkie in me wants the far reaches of space to be dark and empty of other players. I want the feel of being the only player there with danger or unexpecting encounter around every asteroid. I also do not want to be "forced", "ignore" or "deal with" those players that find enjoyment of destroying gameplay for others or that think they are being unique and creative with the IpwnU's and Irfuzypnt's flying around in neon pink Fed ships with Trill Captains wielding Bat'leths aboard there cloaked ship.

If anything a Canon and Soft Canon server choose would be fine with me. We true trekkies can lay claim to the Canon and drive the other type to the Soft Canon with Bat'leth and Phaser in hand.

[Nyanya]

Firstly, in character roleplay is up to you and you alone as a player. As much as I understand the lack of an IC environment hurting the will to stay IC, its still your personal willpower issue to deal with.
You’re missing the point.

It’s not about me being IC or having the “willpower” to stay IC. It’s about the environment (i.e. the other players) responding to you and enriching your experience.

Look at it like this. It’s like going to the movies for the story. You could go to an action movie and try and find satisfaction within the flimsy stories those usually have, or you could go to a movie with an intricately crafted story and enjoy it so much the more. If you want a good meal you could go to McDonald’s and try to find satisfaction in a hamburger, or you could go to a five-star restaurant and order a full course meal. One is going to leave you feeling ultimately unfulfilled and, thus, less likely to stick around very long.

It’s the same with PvP I imagine. One might try and find fulfilment in the few PvP zones that are there, or one could go and play a game geared towards PvP where PvP is everywhere. (As such I feel that the PvP zones aren’t there to appease the PvP players as such, but more for those general players who might want to do a bit of PvP now and again).

Sure, I can stay in character. Heck, I do that in single player games all the time. But in the end it’s going to be unfulfilling if the universe around you, the players around you, don’t react to that by giving you the appropriate atmosphere to roleplay in.

Second, PVP and ICRP are NOT mutually exclusive.
True, which is why MMOs tend to provide PvE, PvP, RP and RP PvP servers.

I will say though that in practice the two are mutually exclusive at any one time. After all, when you’re busy with the combat system (as you are with PvP) then you generally don’t have time to roleplay. And thus usually it comes down to people at any one time being busy with either roleplaying or PvP.

Then, of course, there are those who try to claim that they’re being perfectly in character by running around abusing the game systems to gank and camp and harass other players in PvP.

I guarantee you, if there is an "RP" server where PVP is completely disallowed, its never going to be popular.
That’s a rather bold claim and one I strongly disagree with.



Instancing is a BIG no-no. We all saw what happened with AoC and just about everything being instanced. NO! Doing instances just creates WAY too many problems. Especially when you are in groups.
<sigh> Why do people always have these knee-jerk reactions whenever someone mentions “instancing”?

Look at it like this. If you have multiple servers then you also have instancing since, after all, each server is a separate instance of the game. The difference with having multiple servers and having ingame instancing is that with ingame instancing you can switch instance at any time to join up with your friends and the game can dynamically adjust the number of instances based on population, ensuring that areas that need to feel crowded always feel crowded (by having a high population allowance per instance, thus limiting the total number of instances of that area) and areas that need to feel empty always feel empty (by having a low population allowance per instance, thus having a high number of instances of that area).

The problems with Age of Conan wasn’t in the instancing itself, but how the game handled the instancing. Particularly it made it way too difficult to traverse instances (and it solved that somewhat now by prompting you to switch instance to join your group when you join a group). Beyond the group switch you can only traverse instances at specific spots which don’t exist in every area (like the inns). Additionally AoC had problems with being very poor at handling numbers much beyond the instance limit (try organizing a large, public roleplaying event in an inn) and some of the popular roleplaying spots (like inns) had a very low player cap to begin with.

And of course players needed to get used to the idea of instances and how to keep that in mind when organizing events and trying to get together with people.

But poor instance management doesn’t mean that instancing itself is broken. After all, how do you get your party together if the party members are all playing on different servers? You can’t, but you can do it if the game areas are instanced and you only have one “server”.

Even you're Rp'ers can make their fleets and they can interact with the other RP'ers.
Even beyond the atmosphere points I’ve brought up before, for that at the very least you need a way to denote to everyone that “hey, I’m a roleplayer”. And even then it’s not just about finding other roleplayers to roleplay with, but being helped in avoiding those that don’t.

I personally still strongly believe that having roleplaying instances of the areas solves all problems. Heck, it even gives me the opportunity to shift in-and-out of roleplaying based on my preference for that moment. And similarly one could also make PvP instances of areas where PvP is enabled. No need to have separate PvP zones which is, to be honest, a bit of a lame idea.

No one needs their own server. ESPECIALLY if you are striving for a player-driven economy. You would just be shooting yourself in the head by dispersing all those people to different shards. Far less consumers to buy your goods. Or make your economy viable(if you are Cryptic).
Interestingly enough CoX had multiple servers and still had a splayer-driven economy. There it was just that the economy was cross-server so what you sold on one server could be bought on another.

Though I prefer one single server with multiple instances, there is no reason why separate servers couldn’t mean a global economy.



That is my biggest problem with one server tho. The trekkie in me wants the far reaches of space to be dark and empty of other players. I want the feel of being the only player there with danger or unexpecting encounter around every asteroid.
Again, that’s the beauty of instancing as the developers can set the player limits per zone based on how “empty” or “crowded” they want it to feel. Thus those far reaches of space might be set to a limit of only one party (and then there are additional considerations like private or public instances), meaning that no matter how many people are exploring those far reaches it’ll always feel dark and empty to you.

In fact, instancing makes certain that all zones will always have the exact level of crowdedness to them. You won’t run into any cases where you were unfortunate enough to choose an overpopulated server where every zone is way too crowded or were unfortunate enough to choose an underpopulated server where every zone is way too empty.



Give me one big server with instancing to modify my game experience toward my preference. If I flag myself for RP then I’ll always go into the RP instances. If I flag myself for PvP I’ll go into the PvP instances. If I set my settings to English I’ll go into the English instances, if I set my settings to French I’ll go into the French instances. If I set my settings to local I’ll play in the local (EU or US) instances and if I set my settings to international I’ll play in the International instances.

Of course, not all combinations might exist (I can see language and locale being combined, for example, so you either play in your language locale or play International) in which case it might choose from what is available (if there’s no Spanish RP PvP instance it might just put you in the Spanish PvP instance), but this gives users and developers maximum flexibility, gives everyone the game types they prefer, keeps the community one whole and makes it easy to play with your friends whether they’re international or not.

That is how an online game should be.

Yes, I like cake and I like eating it too.

[wiryone]

Personally, I feel that there should be seperate servers. My main reason for saying so is that, what happens when the server crashes and has to remain down for maintenance? Well then absolutely no one would be able to play the game. This is completely unexceptable. There should be at the very least 3 servers just like the original poster said. I would also like to back up the original poster's comments about keeping the Role Players, the PVPers, and the rest of the other players completely SEPERATE. I myself can not stand Role Players, nor can I stand PVPers. I just want to be able to play a game with some friendly people in the fleet I belong to and that is it. I just want to play and have a good time. No need to be bugged by someone who sends me a hail and says "PVP meh".

[griplocke]

well regardless of anything else I would expect allot of instancing in this game. They already said the planets will be instanced and the different sectors of space will be instanced so while the actual instances may be very large there will be allot of instancing, which I am fine with. I think instancing is the only real way to manage population especially in a game where the belief is that you are the first person ever to explore an area.

Another point I would like to make on the topic though is that you have to keep in mind that people are all over the place who will be logging in and playing the game. Having a single instance of the game hosted in lets say New York can cause issues for the entire playerbase when Verizon has a core router problem in New York. By seperating the server instances by region you can have west coast servers and east coast servers and at least in the event above the entire player base is not dead in the water. Of course they will have seperate servers for EU I image too. So even if they do go with a single ruleset I still expect there to be multiple servers geographically dispersed.

Orab:
Even if you used virtualization the virtual servers would still be clustered. Without clustering them you do not have a reliable redundancy in your services. Also in a pure conventional cluster you can bring nodes up and down as needed for maintenance or whatever too. My point was really that if you are going to instance with multiple virtual servers on one node then you could probably instance the same amount or more on one physical node without the overhead and limitations that virtualizing brings. =)

[Silverspar]

Well Nyanya, I have to say one thing, with all that bogus statement, you really are just looking for an excuse to believe that making a designated server is going to change the environment. Sure didn't help WoW at all because RP servers are just the same as a normal server, and every game I've visited that had a designated, so called RP server, still wasn't much different from a regular server. The question comes down to, who are you to dictate how someone RPs their character? Can you honestly say just because someone isn't talking in some speciallized designed speach format, or that they use emoticons that someone is not RPing?

Really, all multiple servers will serve to do is segragate and disperse the playerbase making up some arbitrary terminology that hardly anyone ever pays attention to, to begin with.

[SMarcellus]

Really, all multiple servers will serve to do is segragate and disperse the playerbase making up some arbitrary terminology that hardly anyone ever pays attention to, to begin with.

To further expand what Silverspar is saying is that if you look at every MMO out there that has segregated its community, you encounter a lot more issues than it resolves, as well as compound the overall monetary expenditure by Cryptic to run multiple type servers.

Old RP / RP PvP server rule sets would try and manage naming conventions. Other than names, most people never really RP'ed because there's no way to dictate it except by players. Now you run into the issue of individual opinion on what counts and doesn't count as roleplay. HUGE flaw. You can't name one game that had a successful RP only server and it was just RP. I can think of more times playing MMO's where it was the unofficial server, or just RP'ed on my own. If they thought I was weird, so be it.

Old PvP server rule sets managed nothing and you went in knowing it was every man for him/her self. These servers never maintained the overall population to keep them viable.

Does that stop Cryptic from running more than one server, no. But, if there's more, it'll be based on hardware requirements, system functionality and the like. Not rulesets, as that just adds to overhead, and it's much easier to just have one to apply to everyone.

[Toaks]

1 server is fine i rember in swg we had a large city where a rp guild asked if they could put a 2 npc base (one rebel one imperial one) near our city.
They had a place to rp and we had somewhere to farm if they were not upto anything.
And tbh we even joined in for a laugh sometime's i think a community benefit's more from a mixed group's on a server as you meet and interact with different people which make's the game more colorful.

Meeting the 133t kid's (example the wow community) all the time just get's annoying as hell after a while so one server would be a good thing imo.

[Shar_Torin]

One part of the argument that I haven't heard yet is the accountability of personality. One of the greatest evils that exist on the internet is the anonymity of personality which means the person isn't "accountable" for their actions. In other words, people can and will be jerks on the internet just because they can. Now if there were a single server with some kind of identifier that would be attached to each account (ie surnames etc) then people's reputations become infinitely more important and most (not all) will then filter their actions to protect their reputations. Now this only means that people would be more consistent with their actions not necessarily "nice" but what it does do is it goes really far towards making it extremely difficult for unethical people to do the things that supremely irritate other gamers. That IMO was EvE's greatest strength. If you ruined the reputation for a character by being a corporate or alliance thief then because it was one server and one only then the person couldn't just transfer the character away and do it all over again.

In short, one server (or ruleset or cluster or however the hardware works out) will encourage accountability. It won't keep some people from being jerks but it will make them easier to track down so that they cannot just continually exploit the lack of accountability to easily grief people with the same tricks over and over. Griefers will be in every game. So will "gold farmers" and other people who "cheat" using bots or scripted code BUT one server will make it much much harder.

[Nyanya]

Well Nyanya, I have to say one thing, with all that bogus statement, you really are just looking for an excuse to believe that making a designated server is going to change the environment.
Huh? Where did you get that from? In fact, I thought I was fairly clear when I talked about increased i[]chances[/i].

Sure didn't help WoW at all because RP servers are just the same as a normal server, and every game I've visited that had a designated, so called RP server, still wasn't much different from a regular server.
Perhaps you haven’t visited the right servers then. Because I’ve been on several that did. Most recent is the EU Aquilonia server in Age of Conan. Since this seems to be the server most roleplayers flock to (for various reasons, one of which that it was the first roleplaying server) the ratio of roleplayers to non-roleplayers is much higher than on normal servers. And with that the amount of roleplaying you encounter is also much increased.

And that’s all I’m asking for, an increased chance for a higher concentration of roleplayers. Because I know one thing: designating a server as “RP” might not guarantee that there will be roleplaying there, but not designating a server as “RP” certainly doesn’t help.

The question comes down to, who are you to dictate how someone RPs their character? Can you honestly say just because someone isn't talking in some speciallized designed speach format, or that they use emoticons that someone is not RPing?
Who said anything about talking in a special way, or how to use emotes? Who said anything about dictating how to roleplay? I certainly didn’t.

All I’m asking for is increasing the concentration of people interested in roleplaying and staying in character, however they define that.

Besides, there certainly are general and obvious ways to discourage “out of character” behaviour and ruining the flavour of the setting. Things like a naming policy, which many MMOs have adopted with great success, no OOC chat in IC channels, not disrupting roleplaying events, etc. For example, look at the Age of Conan Roleplaying Rules (http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=92337) (might need to have an account there, don’t know). But these are things that have been done quite well before and something most roleplayers of any kind tend to agree on. If every other MMO company can do it, then why wouldn’t Cryptic be able to?

Again, I’m not asking for anyone to dictate anyone else’s roleplaying. But there’s a few common-sense things that all agree on.

Really, all multiple servers will serve to do is segragate and disperse the playerbase making up some arbitrary terminology that hardly anyone ever pays attention to, to begin with.
Does it separate the playerbase into separate communities? Yes, because they are separate communities. Though with the model I proposed they could still mingle with everyone else. What it does is make it easier for people to find likeminded people, thus increasing the enjoyment for everyone playing the game (for them because it makes it easier to play with people they enjoy playing with and for you because you don’t have to be annoyed by their different approach to playing the game).

Simply because you don’t use the server designations doesn’t mean that anyone else does.



To further expand what Silverspar is saying is that if you look at every MMO out there that has segregated its community, you encounter a lot more issues than it resolves, as well as compound the overall monetary expenditure by Cryptic to run multiple type servers.
What “more issues”? If a company is already running multiple servers than designating one as “RP” doesn’t really change the cost.

And certainly, by providing different game rules (like a PvP server where things work differently) you get increased development cost, but only marginally (particularly for a well designed program).

The only real increased cost that I see is increased cost of Customer Service Representatives as they now would have to moderate additional rules. If Cryptic can’t afford this (and so far companies like Mythic and Funcom certainly seem to have been able to) then I’d happily pay a higher monthly subscription to play on a roleplaying server where CSRs truly enforce the additional rules of roleplaying servers (like the naming conventions and keeping OOC out of IC channels). Heck, maybe they can even host a couple of roleplaying events now and again for the extra money.

But even without the extra support just the official label “this is the roleplaying server”/“this is the roleplaying instance” will be worth the absolutely minimal effort since they serve as a sign to all roleplayers “go here” and thus concentrating these players in one place. That doesn’t cost Cryptic anything extra (except three keypresses in naming the servers) and could make the world of a difference for roleplayers.

it's much easier to just have one to apply to everyone.
I’d argue that we shouldn’t look at what’s “easier” for Cryptic, but we should look at what’s better for the players. And in this case it should be obvious that one size certainly doesn’t fit all, because different players have very different requirements and expectations out of a game. And if it can at fairly minimal effort support these then it seems foolish to me not to do that.

The more people you can make happy playing the game the more subscribers you’ll have and keep over time.

As I said, one of the reasons for why I stopped playing CoX was because it didn’t have roleplaying servers and I doubt that I’m alone in this.

[ajaco3025]

Huh? Where did you get that from? In fact, I thought I was fairly clear when I talked about increased i[]chances[/i].

And that’s all I’m asking for, an increased chance for a higher concentration of roleplayers. Because I know one thing: designating a server as “RP” might not guarantee that there will be roleplaying there, but not designating a server as “RP” certainly doesn’t help.

All I’m asking for is increasing the concentration of people interested in roleplaying and staying in character, however they define that.


Keyword = Fleet


Besides, there certainly are general and obvious ways to discourage “out of character” behaviour and ruining the flavour of the setting. Things like a naming policy, which many MMOs have adopted with great success, no OOC chat in IC channels, not disrupting roleplaying events, etc. For example, look at the Age of Conan Roleplaying Rules (http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=92337) (might need to have an account there, don’t know). But these are things that have been done quite well before and something most roleplayers of any kind tend to agree on. If every other MMO company can do it, then why wouldn’t Cryptic be able to?

I don't mind acting like a Klingon every once in a while but I wouldn't want a separate server just to be around others that try to act like "James T Kirk".


Does it separate the playerbase into separate communities? Yes, because they are separate communities. Though with the model I proposed they could still mingle with everyone else. What it does is make it easier for people to find likeminded people, thus increasing the enjoyment for everyone playing the game (for them because it makes it easier to play with people they enjoy playing with and for you because you don’t have to be annoyed by their different approach to playing the game).

Simply because you don’t use the server designations doesn’t mean that anyone else does.


<Insert keyword here> There are reasons that FLEETS are created. Create a fleet to recruit RPers so you can stay together. Create a Fed RP Fleet and locate a Klingon RP Fleet and blow each other up. My point, RPers don't need to be treated special because they see themselves above the rest and think they deserve extra money to be spent on them for their own server.



What “more issues”? If a company is already running multiple servers than designating one as “RP” doesn’t really change the cost.
Hmm, probably because they are using those blades for other content to enhance the game???



And certainly, by providing different game rules (like a PvP server where things work differently) you get increased development cost, but only marginally (particularly for a well designed program).

The only real increased cost that I see is increased cost of Customer Service Representatives as they now would have to moderate additional rules. If Cryptic can’t afford this (and so far companies like Mythic and Funcom certainly seem to have been able to) then I’d happily pay a higher monthly subscription to play on a roleplaying server where CSRs truly enforce the additional rules of roleplaying servers (like the naming conventions and keeping OOC out of IC channels). Heck, maybe they can even host a couple of roleplaying events now and again for the extra money.

But even without the extra support just the official label “this is the roleplaying server”/“this is the roleplaying instance” will be worth the absolutely minimal effort since they serve as a sign to all roleplayers “go here” and thus concentrating these players in one place. That doesn’t cost Cryptic anything extra (except three keypresses in naming the servers) and could make the world of a difference for roleplayers.

I’d argue that we shouldn’t look at what’s “easier” for Cryptic, but we should look at what’s better for the players. And in this case it should be obvious that one size certainly doesn’t fit all, because different players have very different requirements and expectations out of a game. And if it can at fairly minimal effort support these then it seems foolish to me not to do that.

The more people you can make happy playing the game the more subscribers you’ll have and keep over time.

As I said, one of the reasons for why I stopped playing CoX was because it didn’t have roleplaying servers and I doubt that I’m alone in this.

I don't think you are alone in your arguement for special treatment. Other Rpers before you have wanted their own server. It's bad enough we have plenty of segregation in the real world and now you want to bring major division into a game.

[Nyanya]

Keyword = Fleet
A “fleet” is not the magic solution here. A fleet doesn’t help at all with making the world in general feel more roleplaying oriented.

I don't mind acting like a Klingon every once in a while but I wouldn't want a separate server just to be around others that try to act like "James T Kirk".
Fine, then a roleplaying server/instance isn’t for you. But don’t take the possibility away from others simply because you don’t want it. Otherwise I wouldn’t mind them taking away a few things that I don’t enjoy; can save them a lot of money developing those that way.

<Insert keyword here> There are reasons that FLEETS are created. Create a fleet to recruit RPers so you can stay together. Create a Fed RP Fleet and locate a Klingon RP Fleet and blow each other up.
Ah great, so we're going to get another game where roleplayers are forced into their own dark corners with just their guilds because the rest of the server doesn't really want them and seems to (unwittingly I'm sure) go out of their way to ruin the game for them. Yeah, that sounds like a great solution... not.

My point, RPers don't need to be treated special because they see themselves above the rest and think they deserve extra money to be spent on them for their own server.
First, everyone wants to be treated special, roleplayers or not. You want to be treated special by only having servers dedicated to the gameplay you happen to most enjoy (lucky for you that’s the main one I guess). Second, I’ve already stated that I’m more than willing to pay a higher monthly subscription for this additional support. Third, nobody is seeing themselves above the rest, except perhaps for you in thinking that your way of playing deserves precedence over that of others. We’re just asking to be treated equally, heck, less than equally since we’re only asking for one server/instance as opposed to the dozens you’re likely getting.

It's bad enough we have plenty of segregation in the real world and now you want to bring major division into a game.
Now you're trying to argue that players having different play styles (and thus liking different servers to cater to that) is anything like real world segregation? Are you serious?

Besides, I’m arguing for roleplaying instances which means that the roleplayers would play on and, if anyone on the one server would wish, with anyone else in the community too. No segregation there at all. Unless of course the PvP zones are segregating the PvP players from the ‘normal’ players too. :rolleyes:



Just realize this, to everyone: your way of enjoying the game isn't the only way. Not everyone enjoys the game the way you do.

[Zencrash]

I hope that there are alot of servers, and i am realy looking foreward to a no pvp server, i use a satilite internet connection, so pvp would kill the game for me.

[LunaticFringer]

There'll be pros/cons no matter what they do really. I do know some friends from previous mmo experiences that were turned off by the one server/or multiple same instances that were presented by Guild Wars and the newer AoC. But on the flip side you also shouldn't need worry about server populations looking shabby as the common flux of gamer attrition rates start to settle in if they do aim for one server.

We'll see what happens though. I think I'm somewhere in the middle on this particular idea.

[undraxis]

If they decide to have multiple servers...I want them to make a noPVP server >.<

[SMarcellus]

Just realize this, to everyone: your way of enjoying the game isn't the only way. Not everyone enjoys the game the way you do.

Hi Pot, I'm Kettle.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that's exactly what you're wanting.

Let's say they made an RP server. Are you then going to harp on the rule set? Are you going to be made they allowed the name Jizzy Pickle as character? That someone isn't as up on the canon of Star Trek? Isn't as greedy about money as a Ferengi you thought should be? Doesn't speak Klingon when you think they should? Do you see the fundamental problem with making a specific rule set?

You cannot please all the people all the time. Just like PvP'ers, you have different flavors of RP'ers. There's the casual, the Medium and the Hardcore. If I make a RP rule set, it will fall into one of those categories. If it's casual, the Medium and the Hardcore will not be happy, if it's medium, the Hardcore and casual won't be happy, etc, etc. It works on the same premise with PvP. A hardcore PvP'er wants wide open PvP, and you always hear them gripe that the game would be SO much better if they would just....yet, you haven't seen widely successful MMO be that way. Why? Because they are a small part of the overall player population. The same with hardcore RP'ers. They are a small part of the overall player population. The largest player base is the casual PvP'er / PvE'er / RP'er. You can disagree with that, but the research, marketing, and game development of the last 10 years shows that it is a correct statement.

One last thing, just slapping a tag doesn't make the server the tag. So we make the RP server, with a certain rule set, you still can't MAKE someone roleplay if they don't want to. And you can say, "well they can leave the server", but they are paying the same subscription as you, and if their friend joined that server before them, and they want to play with their friend, who are you, or anyone else. to tell someone HOW they are to play for their money?

You want a roleplay server? When they release a server list, see if the community wants to make an unofficial RP server. I've seen more success from this than if the company does it. Why? Because you have the support from the people that WANT that, not just an arbitrary tag.

[ajaco3025]

Not everyone enjoys the game the way you do.

Duh.


Well, perhaps they could add an RP server, but wait to see if the game will kick off and draw a large number of subs. If not, then there is no loss from adding another server. I just hate it when people want companies to throw in all of these different costs to make (whatever group; complainers, whiners, beggars..etc) players happy if the company may or may not have the budget.


Extra servers, extra maintenance time on extra servers, reading complaint emails, reading player technical support emails, and the headache of hearing from players when something burps on the servers is additional baggage I wouldn't look forward to regardless of the game.

[OrabIbo]

all I can say is I found the most fun RPing when I found a guild that did it well. It was large enough that I could surround myself with fellow friends that RP'ed all the time. This made a buffer of sorts that made it less likely to run into non RP ppl purely because of the friends I hung out with.

And that is truely the key, Community. If a MMO has a good way to keep communities of ppl together in communicaition and game functions. Then you can enjoy the game how you see fit.

the only thing I wish at times is that the /ignore function sometimes had a /invisible function that would prevent players from annoying you visually even when you can hear them :P so you can blithfully be unaware of their existance unless they interact with you through combat. you can usually avoid trades and /tells. Why not make the invisible also? It's my choice right? lol

As I've sad before. Control your environment don't let the environment control you!

[Jaedon_Rivers]

The “RP” tag on a server doesn’t guarantee a roleplaying environment. But it will make it more likely as it gives a central place for roleplayers to flock to (hence making the concentration of roleplayers stronger than on other servers) and it gives the developers the chance to encourage roleplaying through roleplaying server rules (like forbidden to use unsuitable names, restricted to IC chat in global channels, not allowed to disrupt roleplaying events, etc). Again, those don’t guarantee roleplaying by any means, but they sure encourage it.
And yet, you don't encourage anyone that isn't particularly interested in RP beforehand to give it a try. They're never exposed to it.

If you can create an environment where RP is encouraged (but certainly not forced in any way), in a place where people who usually shy away from RP will be present, more people could end up trying it out and maybe even like it. Is that maybe not more preferable than putting lots of already established roleplayers together in a single space, and the inevitable pitfalls (exlusionism that can sometimes occur, incorrect perceptions, a possible lack of people , etc)?

From my position - I've done email and forum roleplaying before and enjoyed it, and I wouldn't mind properly giving it a try in a game, but I'm not that big of an RPer. I doubt I'd feel comfortable joining an RP-marked server (I don't like stepping on peoples toes when I can help it, and I definately wouldn't RP all the time if I were to do it at all), but were a roleplayer to come up to me and engage in IC conversation, it might well encourage me to respond in kind. I'm also dead certain there will be roleplay guilds around and such...I can't see a problem in roleplayers finding each other in a single server (same with PvPers and PvEers - they seem to have no trouble in Eve, after all)

To have it forced upon me would make me tired of it, especially if I were to ever want a break from it, or wanted to do something with people who had no interest in RP at all, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. So why force it, and why divide the playerbase because of it, when instead you could give people the choice of whether and how they want to roleplay in the same, shared space, while increasing the chances of getting newcomers to the domain interested?

If it's about a want of rules and limits, and making sure everybody else around you is roleplaying too, then you [these "you"s aren't directed at anyone in particular btw, before someone hits me] probably need to be more tolerant of others and how they want to play [i]a game.

[Tranca0]

If people can't find the ability to RP or anything else on one game server then they aren't going to be able to do it on "their" shard.

I've seen some pretty lousy excuses you RPers try to use. "we can't do it because of everyone else" What a crock. You just need to expend a little more energy to stay in characters and find more of your own.

"discouraging" people from RP because you don't have your own shard?? Thats extremely laughable!! If people want to try it, it doesn't matter what shard they are on. They will search out like-minded people! Really poor excuse!

Oh, here's a GREAT one! Ah great, so we're going to get another game where roleplayers are forced into their own dark corners with just their guilds because the rest of the server doesn't really want them and seems to (unwittingly I'm sure) go out of their way to ruin the game for them. Yeah, that sounds like a great solution... not.


I mean..ROFL?? Are you ****** serious? The only way you will get pushed into dark corners is by going there of your own free will!! And people going out of their way to ruin your game experience? I don't know. Being a Klingon myself, the way you are complaining...I see an easy target from where I sit :p


Cryptic wants a one-shard world to keep EVERYONE together! A multi-sharded world will depend on their subscriptions. But I seriously doubt they will cater to any one group. Because once you open pandoras box, every little self-centered group will want their own server for their own reasons and wants. And I can guarentee Cryptic isn't going down that road.

[ajaco3025]

Cryptic wants a one-shard world to keep EVERYONE together! A multi-sharded world will depend on their subscriptions. But I seriously doubt they will cater to any one group. Because once you open pandoras box, every little self-centered group will want their own server for their own reasons and wants. And I can guarentee Cryptic isn't going down that road.

Hey! He replied to me first so he's mine! :cool:

[Nyanya]

<sigh> Such ignorance. And people still wonder why roleplayers are uncomfortable playing on general servers.


Hi Pot, I'm Kettle.
I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Where’s I’m championing that everyone be able to play the game the way they enjoy, you somehow see me reminding people that people enjoy playing the game in different ways as doing the opposite?

Seriously, you’ve got me very confused here.

Let's say they made an RP server. Are you then going to harp on the rule set? Are you going to be made they allowed the name Jizzy Pickle as character? That someone isn't as up on the canon of Star Trek? Isn't as greedy about money as a Ferengi you thought should be? Doesn't speak Klingon when you think they should? Do you see the fundamental problem with making a specific rule set?
Again, where did I ever say any of that? I posted a link to the kind of rules I’m referring to, and yet you read me wanting any of your examples in that?

Let’s take the names, for example. This is an example of how one game specifies the roleplaying rules regarding names:

Character/Guild naming rules

These guidelines define the kind of names that are forbidden on the role-playing server. All guidelines apply to exact matches and masked approaches (Gonan, Konan, Faminee). If you stumble upon a player that violated the guidelines then petition a GM to change that name.
Futuristic names (Robotkiller, Powerman, Coolboy, Synthetic etc.)
Names that have a clear reference to modern day life or culture

Advertising names (wwwmypagedotcom)
Names that advertise websites, games, company, etc.

Offensive names (Gayhater etc.)
Names that are offensive towards a person, a group of people(out-game ethnicity), other players, Funcom employee, characters

Realworld names (MrBush, LasVegas, Tolkien, etc.)
All names that have real-world resemblance and are inspired by realworld people, locations, objects

Obscene names (Dickking, *****banger, etc.)
Names that are obscene and violate good taste and netiquette

Gibberish names (Asdf, qwerty)
Names that have no meaning and are a loose collection of letters

Funcom employee or volunteer names (Tarib, Famine, Gaute, etc.)
Names of Funcom employees. They are only to be used by the respective person themselves.

Trademarked names (Legolas, Harry, Elric, Superman, Conan, Illidan)
Names that are part of a trademark or licensed by a company or an individual including characters from the game lore

Modernspeak names (roxor, roflcopter, olololl, nupraptor, etc.)
Names that are formed through the use of modern-day-speak

Sentence names (iloveyou, mebighero, gimmemoney, etc.)
All names that consist of two or more words that form a sentence

Funny/Inappropriate names (Babekiller, Masterblaster, BloodyMary etc.)
Names that do not fit the setting
Obviously, adjust for a Star Trek game, but I don’t see how that’s anything other than common sense. As for your example of “Jizzy Pickle”, I personally find that a silly name, but I don’t see how that violates any of the rules and as such wouldn’t have any problem with it. The rules are only meant to filter out the most obviously inappropriate names. And yes, a lot is left up to GM discretion (which is something I would willingly subject myself to as would many others, if you are not willing then that’s fine too as there’d be more then enough other places for you to play where these additional rules you can volunteer to be subjected to, wouldn’t apply at all).

As for how greedy a ferengi should be or not, when to speak klingon or not, etc. These kinds of things roleplaying rules never determine, nor should they. I really don’t care whether you’re playing a typical greedy ferengi or not, as long as you stay in character in public channels (i.e. don’t talk about real world politics, sports, about the game systems, etc).

And again, I realize that even that is too much for people, which is why I’m not asking for every single server to be a roleplaying server, but just one.

You cannot please all the people all the time.
Luckily I’m not trying to please all the people all the time.

The largest player base is the casual PvP'er / PvE'er / RP'er.
Fine with me. So make a server/instance for the casual RPers where the hardcore RPers can go to as well and provide a roleplaying environment for when those casual RPers choose to RP.

Again, and people seem to continue to miss that, my ideal solution here is one server with roleplaying instances that people can switch to when and if they choose to participate in roleplaying at that time. Hardcore roleplayers would be there all of their playing time, and casuals would switch there whenever they feel like it. Heck, people new to roleplaying and willing to try it can do so whenever they desire.

One last thing, just slapping a tag doesn't make the server the tag.
No, but not putting a tag on it certainly doesn’t either. What putting the tag on it does is giving it a chance to be.

But I’m not trying to make anyone do anything. I just want to put a sign up for all those that already want to saying “we suggest you go here”.

You want a roleplay server? When they release a server list, see if the community wants to make an unofficial RP server.
Much as pre-release communities might think that they’re the entirety of the game’s community, or even anything but a small minority of it, the simple truth is that they’re not. Not to mention the difficulties with communicating such things across dozens if not hundreds of roleplaying communities within the larger community. As such what pre-release communities decide might be nice for them, but in the end is fairly pointless to the rest of the roleplayers wanting to play the game (I, for example, had no idea what or where the community had decided on what the “unofficial roleplaying server” was for CoX).

In fact, putting a label on a server doesn’t hurt you anything, helps these pre-release roleplaying communities by helping make the decision for them, and helps get every post-release roleplayer that likely isn’t aware of what a pre-release community decided to play on the otherwise “unofficial” server too. I really don’t see any drawbacks here for anyone involved.



Extra servers, extra maintenance time on extra servers, reading complaint emails, reading player technical support emails, and the headache of hearing from players when something burps on the servers is additional baggage I wouldn't look forward to regardless of the game.
All of those you get regardless of whether a server is tagged as “RP” or not (the only thing an RP server could potentially have extra is added CSR support for any potential roleplaying ruleset they might include).

If they’re planning on having twelve servers then I don’t see where the extra cost comes in from labelling one of them as “RP”. You have the same number of servers, can handle the same load of players, etc. The only possible ‘drawback’ could be that because of the RP server you might get more players than originally anticipated which in turn would lead to the requirement of an additional (core) server. But that’s a good thing, that means the game is successful.

[Nyanya]

Needed to split this over two posts again…


all I can say is I found the most fun RPing when I found a guild that did it well.
I’ve done that as well and enjoyed that too. But I found even more fun RPing when playing on a server where most every guild and most every player roleplayed all the time. That way the entire server feels like a world come alive and not just the areas where your friends happen to be.

If, when walking through the city you get approached in-character by someone asking direction for a few minutes of roleplaying, if when someone acts very obviously OOC and makes fun of roleplaying everyone else around chides him for it, if numerous different guilds and individuals are constantly starting events and roleplaying stories, if your guild is constantly being drawn into the roleplaying of other guilds, then you know that you’re on a true roleplaying server gone right.

And that is truely the key, Community. If a MMO has a good way to keep communities of ppl together in communicaition and game functions. Then you can enjoy the game how you see fit.
Exactly. And in the end asking for a roleplaying server or instance is nothing more than asking for a tool to help the community organize itself.

the only thing I wish at times is that the /ignore function sometimes had a /invisible function that would prevent players from annoying you visually even when you can hear them
Aye, I quite agree. Though I very rarely actually seem to need to ignore anyone.


And yet, you don't encourage anyone that isn't particularly interested in RP beforehand to give it a try. They're never exposed to it.
I think I already covered this above, but in the end you can’t force anyone to try anything.

The chance that people might randomly run into RP without having planned to and then decide to try it themselves is so abysmally small on core servers that I’m not certain that it’s worth keeping in mind. If anyone wants to try roleplaying then they’re more than welcome to.

In fact, the irony is that people who might be inclined to be open-minded enough to try roleplaying also tend to choose roleplaying servers for “the friendlier environment and less stupid names”, where if things go right they’d hopefully be greeted by a rich roleplaying environment.

Besides, with the instance approach I’m clamouring for I can see roleplaying groups host public roleplaying events that non-roleplayers might want to visit to see what all the fuss is about and be exposed to roleplaying that way. That, I think, is much better than leaving it to chance.

Is that maybe not more preferable than putting lots of already established roleplayers together in a single space, and the inevitable pitfalls (exlusionism that can sometimes occur, incorrect perceptions, a possible lack of people [if fewer people come to the RP server than assumed], etc)?
I actually have the feeling that things like exclusionism tends to be worse if roleplaying groups are asked to exist among a large majority of people with no interest in roleplaying whatsoever as you put them far more on the defensive that way. If ninety-nine out of a hundred players scoff at you for roleplaying and call you weird or call you to get lost, then it’s quite understandable if you don’t want to try roleplaying with anyone other than your direct acquaintances anymore.

I doubt I'd feel comfortable joining an RP-marked server (I don't like stepping on peoples toes when I can help it, and I definately wouldn't RP all the time if I were to do it at all)
I think people tend to have a way too strict view of roleplaying communities. They tend to actually be very open and welcoming and inclusive in general. Particularly on their ‘home turf’ so to speak. Roleplayers most certainly understand that people don’t want to roleplay all the time or even most of the time, heck most roleplayers like taking a break from it now and again too, as such there certainly isn’t a requirement for people to roleplay constantly (and I think asking not to use general chat, but instead use the OOC channels, for game-related communication and such isn’t too much to ask of anyone).

The choice to roleplay or not always exists and is always respected. I’m just asking for an environment where this feels encouraged (not forced at all) if and when I or anyone else chooses to go there.



If people can't find the ability to RP or anything else on one game server then they aren't going to be able to do it on "their" shard.
I’ve already talked about this at length. I’ll just say again that it’s not about the ability to roleplay or not. Right from the beginning I’ve said that you can always roleplay. It’s more about creating an environment, a community perhaps.

I mean..ROFL?? Are you ****** serious? The only way you will get pushed into dark corners is by going there of your own free will!! And people going out of their way to ruin your game experience? I don't know. Being a Klingon myself, the way you are complaining...I see an easy target from where I sit :p
I wasn’t complaining, I was asking for something that makes the game better for me and many, many like me. And likely makes it better for everyone else too (including you perhaps). For the rest that last sentence kinda proves the point you so scoff at.

Cryptic wants a one-shard world to keep EVERYONE together!
As I’ve already said numerous times: I want one shard too (heck, I want one shard even internationally so that I can play with my US friends as well as my EU ones). Within that one shard I want instances (of most every area) designated as roleplaying instances though.

[Hagon]

Well I've had my say in a few threads on this issue, but I'm still of the mind that one server is a bad idea. I think many servers, probably 6 at launch, with more ready to go if needed.

All the same rule set though. No need for separate levels of PvP/PvE servers, and definitely no need for RP servers at all.

[Nyanya]

You want instances of almost everything?? Are you ****ing mad? You DO know how bad instancing will screw up fleets and groups? Not to mention just random people disappearing to different areas. I'll be damed if I'm moved someplace else where the other 100 people aren't to satisfy your RP needs. No ****ing way!!! Instances absolutly SUCK and AoC has proven that to the ends of the universe and back!

You don;t get to "choose" what instance you enter unless tis a mission. Other than that, you are moved when the server decides to move you, if you like it or not. AIN'T gonna happen bub.
Age of Conan did a lot of things wrong, one of those was how it handled instancing. But simply because Age of Conan did instancing wrong doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. Because long before that City of Heroes/Villains (by Cryptic, which is why I strongly suspect that STO will use a similar instancing mechanic) proved that it most certainly can work extremely well. In fact, it worked so well that I think most people aren’t even aware that it is instancing pretty much every zone in the game.

Some of the differences; in CoX, when you enter the train to move to another zone (or leave a mission), the list popping up asking you which zone to move to lists all the instances of the available zones. And, as I recall, people actually see in their UI directly what instance they’re in (so you can tell people “I’m in Atlas Park 2” instead of having to open an instance list first, which usually just leads to people telling you what they know without looking: “I’m in the Serpent’s Head Inn”).

Things with guilds/groups aren’t unmanageable either. When choosing what instance to go to (which is the only way to travel to another zone), show what instances your guild/group members are in (with groups particularly the group leader). When joining a group in another instance bring up a message asking whether you want to switch instances (which AoC implemented now btw, since when the instancing has become a lot easier). And as I said before, make certain that you can easily change instance in all cases (AoC had many zones where you couldn’t switch instance since it didn’t have a respawn point).

Not to mention, in the particular case or RP instances, those would only be available if you’ve got yourself flagged for RP so for those who don’t roleplay you generally wouldn’t even notice that they’re there. In no game I’ve ever played did I ever get “moved someplace else”, so I don’t get your comments there at all.

That you don’t get to choose what instance to go to is a design choice that Age of Conan made (and a bad one at that), but that doesn’t have to be like that at all, as City of Heroes proved.

Instances, if done right, empower the players by giving them options. And yes, if done wrong they can be very frustrating. But I’m willing to bet that they’ll do it right again.



Well I've had my say in a few threads on this issue, but I'm still of the mind that one server is a bad idea. I think many servers, probably 6 at launch, with more ready to go if needed.

All the same rule set though. No need for separate levels of PvP/PvE servers, and definitely no need for RP servers at all.
For me that sounds like the absolutely worst possible solution; multiple servers (making it that much harder to play with your friends) and no server designations (making it so all roleplayers are scattered across all servers, diluting the concentration of roleplaying you can find anywhere).

If you have multiple servers then I feel that having a couple with different rulesets, like RP, is pretty much a requirement. But even so I prefer one server with designated instances for roleplaying.

Not having any roleplaying designation anywhere is saying to roleplayers: “we don’t want you playing our game.” Just think for a moment how it would feel if someone told that to you.

[OrabIbo]

(and I think asking not to use general chat, but instead use the OOC channels, for game-related communication and such isn’t too much to ask of anyone).

Apparently this is to much to ask, as ppl will blab all day long in whatever channel they please. either to cause drama just be oblivious to the fact that the channel has a purpose!

This bothers me to, and there is little to anything you can do about it but, as you said. ask to use it appropriately.

one of the first things I do in an MMO is turn off /general and /trade chat channels :P They are hardly ever of any use.
What I do like, is how as you flow form one zone to another, that there is a seperate channel for each zone. So you can organize ppl close to the same area. And unless you are in that area you can't talk in it. so this limits the SPAM by limiting the ppl that can use it. Keeps the chat box from flying by at a mile a minute! lol

[Laito]

Eve caters to all three play styles on the one server. If you played EVE in some of the high end corporations, they can get very much into their roles as characters, ie RP. If you don't want to PvP you mine or run missions within sector 1 space, and if you want to hardcore PvP you go to fringe space.

Now the one server idea would be awesome, especially if they develop a huge and immense galaxy. You need a lot of players to fill that galaxy, otherwise its empty space.

Either way, I hope they go with one server, three at the most.

[Arsmajka]

I was wondering if Sto ever reached 9 milliom subscribers like wow how would that effect the server , if there is only one .
On the up side of things one server would be great, wouldn't have to worry about transefer fees to play on the same server as your friends

[Asmodien]

One server is a good idea , only more servers if the game takes off in popularity. What gives EvE online the epic feel is the fact that you are playing on one server with a 300,000 player base , at most it was around 40,000 people online in game and the least Ive seen it was around 20,000, these numbers stayed consistent 24/7. With the graphics engine Crypic is using I feel they are desiging the game to handle alot of players on one server. If they are making the game huge like EvE then higher server population is needed.

[OrabIbo]

I was wondering if Sto ever reached 9 milliom subscribers like wow how would that effect the server , if there is only one .
On the up side of things one server would be great, wouldn't have to worry about transefer fees to play on the same server as your friends

If they were to ever reach the 1 million marker. I would think they would have to break off and make a new server.

Granted there can be 1 million ppl assigned to a server but not all of them will be logged in at once.

So like where EvE has consistant online numbers of around 200,000. Cryptic would have something similar or higher than that. Unless Cryptic comes up with something revolutionary with IBM. Going much past that will require a new server to login to. Seperating the populace. I don't mind if they do that as long as they can keep the population fairly large.

[viiiper]

Ok, I know that cryptic CAN make a one server game...but it is a poor choice for this type
of game.

One server does not really fit all three basic play styles that this game will have.

1. Hardcore PvP (open warfare)
2. Mixed some light pvp and generally PvE
3. Hardcore Trekies (RP server types)

By making only one server type, the Hardcore groups ( 1 and 3 ) will dislike a major part of your
game. Only group 2 will be fully happy. If you think group 1 and 3 will LEARN to like it..they won't.

All the top MMO's KNOW this, that is why they have multiple servers on faction
oriented games.

What about Eve? That caters to group 1...and group 1 only....Eve is basically just a PvP game.

Back to the subject....It doesn't matter if you can make one server work, you can't make
everyone happy UNLESS you offer them a choice.

Give them the 3 servers...everyone wins, most will be happy.


So far from the truth....


I played EvE-Online and after years, it sux, why? because there is no law even in Empire space, cpc have lost thousands to ganking crews exploiting the loopholes in the game logic. but that said, EvE-Onilne has alot of good too and one great point for eve is:

One server farm, why, because there is only one universe and all player play there, there the sectors/ regions are divided by gates each leading to another server in the farm but all linked in real time, that is the key. So players in USA can play with players from Europe, UK, Australia and anywhere in this world, that's what kills all other MMO's, sub dividing the community into logging into other servers (the worst idea since the start of time).

One server farm 100 clusters, each real time linked into a one universe system in four major quadrants, pipline technology is in use today, that caters for EvE-Online who support players in excess of 40,000+ being online together. You split the community you split the game & the experience, end of.


As for category 1,2,3 & PvP - I pray STO does not end up like EvE-Online a ganking kill feast for the limited few and a pain for the rest. STO is not a PvP gank feast heaven, it's more than EvE ever dreamed of.

The other killer in Eve was the economy , money driven, everything was traded for money , the infomas Eve ISK (inter stella kredit) which lead to ISK farmers selling online for real dollars farmed ISK (like WOW gold) to bolster players banks. A money less society is the key where trade is trade and not Dollars, I hated Eve's 'puff daddy' system you got the Dollars, buy your way to the best.

Sorry, but I total disagree with the initial thread post.

One server for all, one server to rule them all, the only real way.... gankers goto eve.

:D


p.s. Not bad, if I say so myself for a first post...