A Worrying issue from a hardcore gamer and trekkie fan.

[lf036447]

greetings all.

my friends and myself have been watching this game for a long time now. we have talked for hours on how amazing this game will be. discussed the details which have been released and also thought about how the dev's would make it happen.

one thing we got very excited about ( maybe even moist ) was the klingon empire!! the thought of having some friends in a cloaked pack of birds of prey hunting around the galaxy made me more excited then when my son was born.

so i was sick to my stomach to read how pvp is being planned. something along the lines of the outer reaches of space and certain places. i have afew issues with this.

1/ in the video its said that the galaxy will be infinite or close to. so how will the pvp work exactly?

2/ having certain places for pvp is not only old but boring. wow already tried it and so has eve-online which is a game in the same genre as startrek online. say for example you have a building with 20 rooms. 1 room is for pvp. not going to be fun for long when you know where to go for a fight?

3/ its not what klingons are all about. i should be able to take my friends into a solar system, scan the system and find a juicy frieghter convoy. organise my raiding fleets tactics and start the raid. hit and run what ever.

point is klingons are about glory. if i am unable to play like a klingon searching for war and glory, forced to play like a pacifist doing quests and other such pve then whats the point??

my point can also be taken for exploring. from the video i am to understand that you gain technology etc from races by gaining reputation with them. i dont see why the klingons would do this.

we all know in our hearts that a klingon captain would simply beam a raiding party in and rape n pillage.

please dont kill klingons off. make them the blood thirsty glory hunting buggers that they are!!

[Volomon]

1. Infinite is a huge word, I would say infinite possiblies for expansion. They have some sort of automated system creating planets. I'm not sure how far they will go or how often they will make these planets. I have a feeling these will be added per content update 4 times a year.

2. That can be true for some games but in this one fleets will have stakes in those areas with player made bases and factories and mining facilities, and miners. So it puts the very heart of their concerns in these areas. If they don't own those sectors then they will not be able to make a "Juggernaut" (or whatever) ship. It gives it a whole new context.

3. This question isn't a question its a statement and an ambiguious one at that so I donno. Also not all Klingon's are part of the sterotype or else they would still be using clubs and dragging their mates back to their caves.

[cocoa-jin]

If PvP will be essentially relegated to pointless, m boring and meaningless battles in bottle, then PvP will be an utter waste of time.

If they can find away to make combat meaningful and decisive, then it will be phenomonal.

PvP needs purpose, properly directed, done for some valuble resource and/or territory. It needs to be immersive and consistent with canon. Engagment protocol needs to be realistic and consistent with Star Trek inter-faction relations/diplomacy

[lf036447]

ok thank you for explaining the pvp in detail. that does not sound to bad.

yes that is also true about not every klingon being a killer. but i also bet you even a klingon scientist would fight to the death for being called a geek :P

[lf036447]

PvP needs purpose, properly directed, done for some valuble resource and/or territory. It needs to be immersive and consistent with canon. Engagment protocol needs to be realistic and consistent with Star Trek inter-faction relations/diplomacy

spot on. i have no issues with an hour stand off :P

i also hope they make ship damage consistent aswell. like a skilled player/tactical officer can dissable a targets system such as weapons and engines.

[Volomon]

spot on. i have no issues with an hour stand off :P

i also hope they make ship damage consistent aswell. like a skilled player/tactical officer can dissable a targets system such as weapons and engines.

I'm hoping that this will be the case as well. From what I've read they have each area of the ship represented shields front left right rear, engines and all that so I would assume they are damageable. I hope anyway. They talk about diverting power from them so they must be able to take damage.

[Edrick]

This is NOT EvE with a Star Trek skin to it, if you want to fly around and attack defenless targets go play EVE, only a dishonrable pirate would think that kind cowardly combat would grant you any kind of honor. Read the FAQ if you dont understand how the PVP system will work that explanes it all. This game is not all about PvP and should not be anything like EVE.

Klingons for the most part are Honrable and not the blood thirsty Pirates you seem to think they are.

[Vazuras]

Here is how I feel. If we are going to have a "PVP" and "PVE" type game. I feel that PVE should offer better defense and offence from pvpers. If the game is all open. Anyone can go anywhere....then people that want to do more exploring should have better upgrades.

[lf036447]

This is NOT EvE with a Star Trek skin to it, if you want to fly around and attack defenless targets go play EVE, only a dishonrable pirate would think that kind cowardly combat would grant you any kind of honor. Read the FAQ if you dont understand how the PVP system will work that explanes it all. This game is not all about PvP and should not be anything like EVE.

Klingons for the most part are Honrable and not the blood thirsty Pirates you seem to think they are.

sounds like someone a/ couldnt handle the learning curve or b/ was a nab miner....

klingons have no mercy against an enemy. if that enemy happens to be in a unarmed ship do you think they care?

point is klingons take what they want. pvp is about the thrill of the hunt and kill. tactician vs tactican. warriors. people should have to watch there scanners and avoid corridors etc. wheres the fun in being able to go afk anywhere with no fear of danger?

also we all have wanted to hunt down and kill some smack talking rtard :P

[Jenshae]

I agree with Edrick, there is no honour in shooting a defenseless target.

[Volomon]

Here is how I feel. If we are going to have a "PVP" and "PVE" type game. I feel that PVE should offer better defense and offence from pvpers. If the game is all open. Anyone can go anywhere....then people that want to do more exploring should have better upgrades.

I totally disagree PVP and PVE should work hand in hand, one should not be superior to another, PVE mining and diplomatic relationships should produce resources just like PVP planet conquering. Both combine in order to allow Fleets unique access to ships and other modifications. Each will have its own rewards but not superior to the other.

When you start to put one above another then you alienate customers. This is a major issue with WoW right now. Which is a reason why so many try each new MMO that comes out trying to get out of WoW's death grip. WoW realizes this and way way over reacted by allowing so much more for PVPers in their little "fake" pvp aspects.

If you make PVE superior to PVP that just means that PVPers will have to engage in PVE or content that they don't want to. In the end the results will be the same PVPers will even the field no matter what. So why waste their time, other than to make them suffer?

[Edrick]

sounds like someone a/ couldnt handle the learning curve or b/ was a nab miner....

klingons have no mercy against an enemy. if that enemy happens to be in a unarmed ship do you think they care?

point is klingons take what they want. pvp is about the thrill of the hunt and kill. tactician vs tactican. warriors. people should have to watch there scanners and avoid corridors etc. wheres the fun in being able to go afk anywhere with no fear of danger?

also we all have wanted to hunt down and kill some smack talking rtard :P


You are correct Klingons do not show mercy to their prey, they however do show honor and respect to their prey. I personaly do not have anything againsed Honorable PVP combat and I agree that anyone that goes AFK while in the field is just asking to be poded, but 5 birds of pray againsed a cargo haller is not Honorable, hell its not even fun. I do however have nothing againsed ransoming their cargo as to teach them to bring some security forces next time to give us better sport :D...

I look forward to fighting with you and againsed you EzeKiaL, and welcome to the FORMS

[njdss4]

New players need areas to feel safe. There are a lot of people who don't want to PvP. I'm sorry, but the people who want unrestricted PvP are in the minority. Cryptic is doing right by the majority of the players who will play STO and I thank them for it.

Ganking is cheap. Anyone who endorses it is a sad, pathetic little person. You'll have more of a challenge going to an area where everyone WANTS to fight, so be glad for that and quit complaining.

[phifur]

Sign ..... please talk about PVP on this thread http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=8919

[KO_Gilligan]

I agree with Edrick, there is no honour in shooting a defenseless target.

Correct, and the stereotypes attributed to TOS Klingons were later shown to be false.
Klingons may well be less ruthless and opportunistic than the Federation themselves.

At least they don't hide behind a false curtain of a "Moral" humanity.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

In regards to where PvP will take place, the GameInformer STO article said that the Nuetral zone will be the PvP area(with both space and planetary PvP). PvP can be done elsewhere, but only by consent.

[KidBang]

one thing we got very excited about ( maybe even moist ) was the klingon empire!! the thought of having some friends in a cloaked pack of birds of prey hunting around the galaxy made me more excited then when my son was born.

Sorry, but I can't help this comment. Anyone who would say this even in hyperbole needs to put down the controllers for good.

[Father_Origin]

Same argument...different angle


Basically, some PvP'ers want the right to hunt down players that do not want to
engage in PvP.

Sorry, not going to happen.

No one group of players should have the right to force any other player(s)
to be thier entertainment.

Everyone that sites 'canon' as the reason for it forget that the Klingons DO NOT
hunt in Federation space. in thier own space, neutral zone, unexplored areas...yes.

and that is exactly where they will have PvP

........shakes head, they need a PvP server or this is going to be a mess.

they need 3 servers types..not one.

PvP
Normal
RP (simulator style)

[KO_Gilligan]

Sign ..... please talk about PVP on this thread http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=8919

LOL

how silly of me... I just realized this thread is indeed just more PVP bickering, disguised as something else.

Who has the trusty copy of the Picard head in hand text picture handy ?

[KidBang]

Same argument...different angle


Basically, some PvP'ers want the right to hunt down players that do not want to
engage in PvP.

Sorry, not going to happen.

No one group of players should have the right to force any other player(s)
to be thier entertainment.

Everyone that sites 'canon' as the reason for it forget that the Klingons DO NOT
hunt in Federation space. in thier own space, neutral zone, unexplored areas...yes.

and that is exactly where they will have PvP

........shakes head, they need a PvP server or this is going to be a mess.

they need 3 servers types..not one.

PvP
Normal
RP (simulator style)

I just don't see this as an issue. Anything that makes the gankers feel unwelcome is a good thing.

[Edrick]

Same argument...different angle


Basically, some PvP'ers want the right to hunt down players that do not want to
engage in PvP.

Sorry, not going to happen.

No one group of players should have the right to force any other player(s)
to be thier entertainment.

Everyone that sites 'canon' as the reason for it forget that the Klingons DO NOT
hunt in Federation space. in thier own space, neutral zone, unexplored areas...yes.

and that is exactly where they will have PvP

........shakes head, they need a PvP server or this is going to be a mess.

they need 3 servers types..not one.

PvP
Normal
RP (simulator style)




I agree 100% to this post, they defently need to listen to the people that will play the game and have different server types(PvP & PvE RP can just join a RP fleet) other wise they will just lose players.
Also the Official PVP thread has turned into a unofficial economy thread. Any attempts to change it back to its original purpose has been ignored by the people that post their rigorously and they keep talking about STO economy. Not to mention their is what 400 post in that thread, who has the time or the desire to really read all of that crap....:D

[Father_Origin]

lol human nature


The Trekies want the game to force canon trek on all players

The hardcore PvPers want the game to force PvP on everyone

and the rest of us wants those 2 groups to play on their own server to leave the rest of us alone

:-P

[Reinkaos]

In regards to where PvP will take place, the GameInformer STO article said that the Nuetral zone will be the PvP area(with both space and planetary PvP). PvP can be done elsewhere, but only by consent.

Sounds good to me :) looking forward to this game :)

I wonder, if I'm in my defiant-class vessel in non-PVP territory, escorting a non-PVP convoy or something, would a Klingon choose their mission objective (the convoy), or me? :o

[Trekkie]

I think that the initial post presents an interesting viewpoint, but Player vs. Player interaction is one aspect of the game where it will be difficult to please everyone. I understand that some players want to be able to attack other ships whenever they want, but to be honest there are quite a few people who totally do not like that style of play. I think that limiting the locations where Player vs. Player interactions can occur is a good idea, but I hope that those areas are prevalent so that those who really like Player vs. Player are able to focus on it.

[cocoa-jin]

I can accept PvP in PvP areas provided these areas have some strategic value and the battles themselves have som tactical/strategic impact.
what I cant accept it consentual PvP...its illogical. These are not our ships to go off and duel/fight pointless engagements at our whim.

If we cant PvP outside of diplomatically agreed upon areas, then dont let us consent to PvP outside those areas. If they will allow fighting outside these combat areas then dont beat around the bush, open the PvP model with the appropriate consequences for PvP outside the designated areas.

Some of us just want to RP and fight for some cause, purpose, faction interests and feel we are doing something for the facrion we pledge alllegance to.

we arent all gankers and griefers...in fact I wouldnt even consider myself a PvPer, I plan to do more non-combat content. I just want the PvP to make sense, have purpose, be logical, be canon.

[eNDIE]

lol human nature


The Trekies want the game to force canon trek on all players

The hardcore PvPers want the game to force PvP on everyone

and the rest of us wants those 2 groups to play on their own server to leave the rest of us alone

:-P

hehe agree:)

[_Pax_]

please dont kill klingons off. make them the blood thirsty glory hunting buggers that they are!!
Translation: Me and my friends want to gank noobs in the Federation.

...

I mean, seriously now. World-wide-open PvP sucks for people that aren't hardcore PvPers.:rolleyes:

[_Pax_]

klingons have no mercy against an enemy. if that enemy happens to be in a unarmed ship do you think they care?
There is no Glory in defeating someone who has no weapons, nor any ability to fight.

point is klingons take what they want. pvp is about the thrill of the hunt and kill. tactician vs tactican. warriors.
Exactly ... Klingons are warriors, not psychopathic muggers, jumping out from behind asteroids to blow up every passing Freighter.

[RedSonia]

I think PvP should work as follows:

Each player has a 'home' where they cannot be attacked (presumably where they spawn when they are killed?)

Fleet assets should always be open to attack, it is the fleet's responsibility to protect itself and would make for good gameplay (also it would lessen the 'Gank factor' )

While on 'central command missions' (stuff the game gives you to do) should be invalid targets, as the game will produce enemies to fight - presumably?

Players exploring by their own choice (as in not part of a tour of duty issued by central command) should heck yeah be targets.

Players on planet surfaces should not only, only be attackable on the surface (provided they're not doing a mission) but also, their ship should be undetectably cloaked to prevent people simply waiting half an hour, an hour or however long and then attacking with half their clan. If the player happens to beam up just as a pirate fleet is passing, well, bad luck (again, as long as they are exploring the planet by their own choice.

The 'arena' style of PvP does not make for the game that (we?) I want. Sure, I don't want to have to fight all the freakin time - that's NOT Star Trek and anyone who wants that can play Star WARS games - but, on the other hand, if you watch each series of ST all the way through, at least half of the episodes have some ship or surface fighting so pure exploration isn't ST either.

If this game bears the name Star Trek, it should be a Star Trek game and any player that wants to spend the majority/all of their time fighting should play, as I've said in other posts, a space combat game with a Trek ships mod or if not, one of the Starfleet Command series, which does exactly what it says on the tin. In short, only the Borg and other 'super baddies' go around fighting all the time and the 'normal' races simply don't.

Similarly, those wanting a hassle free exploration game with no PvP fighting are going to be buying the wrong game. This won't (or shouldn't) be Bridge commander or Away Team where the predictability level is 10/10 (still good games though) and you can wait around for as long as it takes to cook dinner to heal your crew/repair systems.

The name should be clue enough -

Star Trek:

Online

Man, that's a long rant. Sorry.

[RedSonia]

I just want the PvP to make sense, have purpose, be logical, be canon.

That's more or less what I mean.

[Syndica]

Its perfectly understandable that the pvpers want fully enabled pvp everywhere. The unfortunate "500 pound gorrilla" in the corner of the room is World of Warcraft. As much as I personally dislike that game, it makes it a bit hard to say a game will fail if it is pve centric. I was there when they killed world pvp in WoW, but it didn't kill the game's popularity.

That being said, I trust Cryptic will give us a game that both sides of the arguement will have fun playing. I personally don't pvp, but I don't want to see our pvp friends left out in the cold. I just don't want your pvp forced on me. For me the social aspect of mmos come from interacting with guild mates and groups to over come the challenges presented by pve content. Not "pwning teh nubs".

[LivingHellfire]

Translation: Me and my friends want to gank noobs in the Federation.

...

I mean, seriously now. World-wide-open PvP sucks for people that aren't hardcore PvPers.:rolleyes:

And given that "hard-core PvPers" are actually a minority, it makes little to no sense to inflict that style of play on everyone else.

Multiple server types is and has always been the best answer to solve the issue of conflicting playstyles.

[Ahsoka]

Another your only a hardcore player it you get FFA PvP

Tisk, tisk