Planets Instanced?

[STOZone]

I noticed the following quote from Jack in the TenTonHammer interview, and I'm surprised no one has picked up on it yet:

You mentioned instancing, how will Star Trek Online make use of non-persistent areas?

Definitely when you go to a certain planet, it’s just you and your teammates beaming down to it.

Source (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/41253)

Now, it begs several questions:

1. When beaming down to a planet, will we see a pre-built path around spontaneous items (caves from CoX anyone?), or will it be more random generated tilesets built around pre-determined guidelines? (As in, this word is "forest with 30% water" or "this planet is build #45")

2. Seamless space to planet transitions will not be possible if each planet is instanced. Instances always have loading screens.

3. Will PvP be space-side only? Or, we will have pre-built battlegrounds like World of Warcraft that players enter a queue for, and are then loaded into when space becomes available?

4. If I find and name a system, and then visit a planet, will it always look the same each time I visit it, or will it change based upon my rank/skills and those that I bring along?

Just some food for thought, what do you all think?

[rejarial]

i for one certainly hope that planets are not instanced. reason is, it makes for boring times, especially if you go to say earth to starfleet head quarters or to qo'nos or even bajor or pick ur planet. whats the point of instancing planets in this case? i can see making parts of planets instanced say for quest bosses or something like that, and thats honestly what im hoping he meant.

[Ascension]

In the Vegas unveiling, Emmett did say that players would be "fighting for resources" which contradicts with the Planets Instanced idea. I honestly don't mind Instanced maps, because you won't have those annoying players swooping in and stealing your "l00t" (well, unless their a leech and take up all the XP...)

Planets Instanced, however, might get a little repetitive. God knows I'm sick of seeing that same Vancouver forest in both Stargate: Atlantis and Battlestar Galactica on television. But there are hundreds if not thousands of missions in the CoX games. It'd be impossible to makes unique maps for each one of them.

My biggest pet peeve with CoX Instanced maps is when the door looks like it's an office building, and it takes you to a cave map. Or a cave and it takes you to a boat map. Makes no sense! Devs, if it's a desert planet from orbit make it a desert map!

[Sullen]

1. Hopefully more random... They're building an 'infinite' universe, so I expect it will be at least partly random. Discovering the same planets over and over again would be sort of boring.

2. Doesn't make a difference to me... I don't mind loading screens, as they only take 10 seconds or so.

3. I hate battlegrounds, I really hope it's just in space. It's been discussed a lot; preferably some system where PvErs don't have to PvP and PvPers aren't stuck in a small zone or instance to PvP in.

4. I don't see why the ranks and skills would change the planet. I would guess it will stay the same each time.

[sniperct]

Sounds like the instanced planets are just for missions/quests. I'm sure there will be places where you beam down and there are other players there ('public' instances, so to speak. The stormwinds and Bree-towns of STO). Like on Earth, or on space stations, or the other major planets (Vulcan, Qo'nos, Betazed etc).

[Hagon]

Instancing isn't a dirty word. They definitely have their place, and can do a lot to make a game tolerable.

Overdoing them can be a bad thing as well though.

I'm pretty confident that these developers know what they're doing in that regard anyway.

The key will be making sure that there's a balance between areas that aren't instanced and players are steered toward them (without it being too obvious) so that one will still feel part of a persistent game filled with other players, and areas that are instanced so as to provide fun game play without having to trip over everyone else.

[Kinjiru]

The instances in Tabula Rasa were pretty good, but did have some flaws. My main complaint was that if you were some distance into an instanced area mission, and for some reason had to leave and start over, for instance, you had to logout or server reset, other various issues... you have to start over. Which is a pain in a lot of cases, some of those places were really challenging.

What really got bad was that by the time I hit lvl 30, they all started to resemble each other.

[desstl]

I take it as there will be asteroids and planets preplaced throughout the game we can drop mining installations and things like that on. Those worlds are free for all and set in stone. So to speak. There will also be Quest worlds that are designed to pit you and your away team against a games objective. Since these need to be minimum interference situations they will be instanced. But the maps for which should have already been made using some sort of scenario generator then saved. I don’t believe there will be any randomly generated planets of areas because it causes too many logistical issues with a game that has hundreds, thousands or dare I say millions of players. Can u imagine?

Capt 1. Mayday, Mayday. My ships stuck on the rim of a black hole at coordinates 1234 mark 4321 can any ship in the area respond?
Capt 2. We just arrived at those coordinates and there is nothing but a planet full of Orion slave girls. It’s not my birthday but thanks for the tip. Oh and use the emergency channel for emergencies only. I’ll be beaming down to the planet now. Cya around.
Capt 1. No I really am stuck… Hello… anybody there…. Engines and life support are fa…….

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

Well, if we're going to play the parsing game, he did say "a certain planet" which doesn't necessarily mean "all planets".

1. Who knows? Could be one or the other. Could be both. Though, I'd imagine it's highly unlikely some destinations will be randomly generated (Earth, for example).

2. That's not always true. It's possible to pre-load instances for virtually seamless transitions. Some games like World of Warcraft do this for crossing server boundaries.

3. Again, who knows? Bear in mind "instance" doesn't have to mean "private".

4. Sounds like two questions to me, "How sophisticated will planetary simulations be?" and "How will difficulty/challenge be implemented?" Once again, who knows? It might depend on how the game's focus is split between the space and ground game. I'm hoping it's relatively even, with virtually endless amounts of content for both.

[Azurian]

Yeah, instancing for every world doesn't make sense. For there surely will be literally thousands of worlds out there ranging from empty balls of dust to worlds with civilizations.

I agree with those who mentioned it above, the only likely canidiates for instancing would be worlds with "dungeons". For it was dungeons that were the frequent targets of PvPers, as a way of taking advantage of targets that were weakened from PvE (and not ready for PvP), or as a way of cyberbullying as a way of "staking their claim" (which even occured in PvE servers).

And I think they might do Semi-Instancing (where it instances after a certain ammount of population fills a zone). Which I figure would be Earth and Qo'nos for starting worlds, and other Popular Star Trek worlds (Vulcan, Risa, Bajor, etc.).

[Dariuas]

I hope they do some instances.
Lets say my crew goes back in time, well, if others go back in time at the same time (paradox anyone?)
Then perhapes the instances is relevant to all IE we're the only ones there.

Now on the other hand if I go to, lets use Deep Space 9 for example, I want to be able to interact with other players there.
Or if I go to the Klingon Homeworld, I would love to be able to see other players... now, if while I am there, I have a mission, or even if I get a mission to do something specific ont he Klingon homeworld, perhapes that mission can be instanced, while the whole of the planet, the 'non'instanced version of the planet continues on.
God I hope that made sense, I am exhausted.

[Flixi]

Here is what i hope it will be:

Space PvE: One open Area, only instanced zones for special Group or Solo Missions

Space PvP: Also open area, directly linked to the open PvE area with fluent boarder without loading screen.
Only instances for Special PvP zones with missions maybe.

Planet in PvE:
Every PvE Planet is one open instance (seperated from space)
The planet itself is open area, designed with a vast surface.
From that surface are transistion points to enter instanced zones for special missions.
Those instanced zones may change in their appearance (randomly generated), as long as the mission allows it to be random terrain.

Planet in PvP:
Every PvP Planet is one open area with starting points for each faction (beam coordinates or shuttle landing)
There might be transitions to instanced zones for special PvP missions.

Starbases: See planets

NC Ship interiors for missions:
see planets. Except it is a special mission, then the whole ship and the space where this ship is, could be instanced.


How to join a friend in instanced space areas?
Well, space is huge, and like in every game, you need a group to join most instances. So the groupleader or a groupmember invites you, sends you coordinates and then you warp to it. Without coordinates or without mission-log that tells you coordinates, you will never find a small area in space :) Thts life

[sniperct]

I hope they do some instances.
Lets say my crew goes back in time, well, if others go back in time at the same time (paradox anyone?)
Then perhapes the instances is relevant to all IE we're the only ones there.

Now on the other hand if I go to, lets use Deep Space 9 for example, I want to be able to interact with other players there.
Or if I go to the Klingon Homeworld, I would love to be able to see other players... now, if while I am there, I have a mission, or even if I get a mission to do something specific ont he Klingon homeworld, perhapes that mission can be instanced, while the whole of the planet, the 'non'instanced version of the planet continues on.
God I hope that made sense, I am exhausted.

This is what it'll probably be like.

[Spire]

Hopefully only some planets will be instanced. For example, planets you go to with your fleets to raid. Would really suck if your team was trying to kill the same boss another team was. PVP planets could be another good instanced area, just to make sure the sides are not grossly uneven and overflowing. But probably not every planet, that would kill the MMO fun.

[Silverspar]

I noticed the following quote from Jack in the TenTonHammer interview, and I'm surprised no one has picked up on it yet:



Source (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/41253)

Now, it begs several questions:

1. When beaming down to a planet, will we see a pre-built path around spontaneous items (caves from CoX anyone?), or will it be more random generated tilesets built around pre-determined guidelines? (As in, this word is "forest with 30% water" or "this planet is build #45")

2. Seamless space to planet transitions will not be possible if each planet is instanced. Instances always have loading screens.

3. Will PvP be space-side only? Or, we will have pre-built battlegrounds like World of Warcraft that players enter a queue for, and are then loaded into when space becomes available?

4. If I find and name a system, and then visit a planet, will it always look the same each time I visit it, or will it change based upon my rank/skills and those that I bring along?

Just some food for thought, what do you all think?

You make some valid points, but I will make some counter-points to go along with it.

1. CoX seems to have a set of prebuilt maps that can be randomly or specifically loaded in. Now whether they have advanced to Diablo style random world generation has yet to be seen, but I am not sure I would be entirely comfortable that everytime I go back to planet X it's terrain is always different. Sure could represent a world environement, but not when entire continents shift, IMO.

2. Seemless transitions can happen. Actually, Earth and Beyond did it quite well. There wasn't a load bar, teh actual ship decent and blast off to and from the planet was the load screen, as it were. You never saw a load bar. Also, not all load screens are tedious. Resident Evil's load screen, up until Resident Evil 4 anyways, was always the door used to transition from one room to the next, and if you have played Wizard101, the load screen is actually a curtain that pulls back (it actually doesn't even need it, cause the load is fast).

3. I am going to guess there will be pre-built battlegrounds. Space stations and starbases, planets as well as sectors of space. I doubt space will be this one gigantic map, but warping will probably be the equivalant to of zoning from one grid to the next. Of course we know little of how the controls will be handled, and I hope inside zones we will be able to warp, as it were, to specific destinations, though Federation protocol usually restricts warp travel while within a solar system (reference: Star Trek the Motion Picture).

4. I don't understand the question. In practically all Star Trek canon, and non-canon, most of the planets are named after the star they orbit. Even Earth is referred to as Sol III. So, if for instance, you go to the Nictar system and find a habital planet being the 5th away from teh sun it would most likely automatically be named Nictar V. As for the terrain always being the same or not, I think that falls under my number 1 answer.

[Elvennomad]

I think planets need to be static. I want to know that planet "X" will look the same for everyone everytime they go there. I don't really care if it's instanced or not. Every planet should be unique though. It would be hard to share strategy with fellow players if the ice planet I went to turned into a Desert planet for him.

[Dext]

Will in one way or another the Planets will be instanceses Now in saying that it go to say how will they be instanced. Will it be like SWG an its planets where you can see every one that is they(if there not a clocked spy) or like guild wars where you see only the people in you group(Hint: THAT WOULD BE GAY!!!!)

But only time will tell.

[Elvennomad]

There was some charm to the way guild wars did things if you love PVe gameplay. Meet in space for a particularily hard mission, beam down in a party and then rock and roll. No outisde worries. I always hated in WOW when i had a mission to kill a specific named character and someone else was doing the same mission.

[Silverspar]

Will in one way or another the Planets will be instanceses Now in saying that it go to say how will they be instanced. Will it be like SWG an its planets where you can see every one that is they(if there not a clocked spy) or like guild wars where you see only the people in you group(Hint: THAT WOULD BE GAY!!!!)

But only time will tell.

I doubt major trade planets, like Bajor, Earth, Vulcan and such will be instanced but actual hubs of commerce. Unexplored worlds and such will probably be instanced to help promote a feeling of exploring something for the first time. After all, even if they could do it and make a universe vast and infinite, someone si going to go out of there way and discover everything just to say they could. Would put a damper on your mission of exploration if you go to a planet you've never seen and turns out, despite it was millions of light years from Federation space, was already discovered by someone on opening day.

[OrabIbo]

2. Seamless space to planet transitions will not be possible if each planet is instanced. Instances always have loading screens.


I don't know why ppl are so hung up on Space to Planet seamless transitions. It has never been shown in Star Trek in this fashion. They almost always use transporters to get to the surface. And if a shuttle is used. you see it leave the ship, and just before it lands. None of the boring navigation inbetween. Why should we be submitted to this in a game?

While such a scene, is cool to see for the first few times. If nothing happens during the descent, what enjoyment can we get out of it? I don't see this ever making it in to the game, unless there is a mission that tailers itself around it. and something happens in flight.

There is also very few ships capable of atmosphereic flight. Mainly because all the ships were built in space and not designed to land. so I can only see a short scene of the ship shuttle leaving. a loading screen... and a scene just before it lands. Why should we expect more from STO, than this? It's just a routine flight, that would be represented better and more fluidly by transporting from ship to the surface.

[Elvennomad]

I personally would like to see load cover cut scenes. Kind of like the door being opened in the old Resident Evil games. It would be great if we got a little transporter scene or a shuttle being launched. I hate staring at a blue bar scrolling with 1 of 10 pieces of art in the background ... glitz it up a bit.

[TheMasterpiece]

In the Vegas unveiling, Emmett did say that players would be "fighting for resources" which contradicts with the Planets Instanced idea. I honestly don't mind Instanced maps, because you won't have those annoying players swooping in and stealing your "l00t" (well, unless their a leech and take up all the XP...)

Planets Instanced, however, might get a little repetitive. God knows I'm sick of seeing that same Vancouver forest in both Stargate: Atlantis and Battlestar Galactica on television. But there are hundreds if not thousands of missions in the CoX games. It'd be impossible to makes unique maps for each one of them.

My biggest pet peeve with CoX Instanced maps is when the door looks like it's an office building, and it takes you to a cave map. Or a cave and it takes you to a boat map. Makes no sense! Devs, if it's a desert planet from orbit make it a desert map!



instanced stuff is ok for certain planets. Obviously certain missions and things will have to be instnaced but in general i think planets should be persistant

[Jerosh_Skitari]

I would say for most planets, have them instanced away from space, but everyone who beams down to the planet (friend or foe) goes to the same instance. I hate to use a WoW example, but a good example of this is the PvP rewards house in Stormwind and Orgrimmar, it's instanced, but everyone can go there, whether you're in the same group or not.

I would be very surprised if they didn't do this for big planets too (Earth, Qo'noS, etc.).

For some planets with specific missions, have that instanced for just your group. Or perhaps, for every planet, have "open instance" and "closed instance" areas.

As for loading screens, just think of it as a bit of realism. It does take time to get to the transporter room/shuttlebay after all :D

[Silverspar]

I would say for most planets, have them instanced away from space, but everyone who beams down to the planet (friend or foe) goes to the same instance. I hate to use a WoW example, but a good example of this is the PvP rewards house in Stormwind and Orgrimmar, it's instanced, but everyone can go there, whether you're in the same group or not.

I would be very surprised if they didn't do this for big planets too (Earth, Qo'noS, etc.).

For some planets with specific missions, have that instanced for just your group. Or perhaps, for every planet, have "open instance" and "closed instance" areas.

As for loading screens, just think of it as a bit of realism. It does take time to get to the transporter room/shuttlebay after all :D

The PvP house was instanced to keep out low ranking PvPers for whatever wisdom Blizzard decided upon since there was little you could buy without an appropriate rank to begin with (I haven't played WoW in almost 3 years now so dunno if this has changed). however, for PvP style isntances there would have to be a draw to maintain interest, but of course, there would ahve to be balance as well so joe newbie isn't completely alienated from PvP.

[Jerosh_Skitari]

The PvP house was instanced to keep out low ranking PvPers for whatever wisdom Blizzard decided upon since there was little you could buy without an appropriate rank to begin with (I haven't played WoW in almost 3 years now so dunno if this has changed). however, for PvP style isntances there would have to be a draw to maintain interest, but of course, there would ahve to be balance as well so joe newbie isn't completely alienated from PvP.

They did change it and anyone can go in there. I was just using it as an example of an instance mechanic that I think would do well for planets where you want players to interact.

[Dext]

All planets are instanced it is just how will they be. AN instanced is not just solo or group play.

[Silverspar]

They did change it and anyone can go in there. I was just using it as an example of an instance mechanic that I think would do well for planets where you want players to interact.

Hehe, example perhaps, but fundamentally worthless now, as it's only purpose was to allow only those of Knight rank or higher in. So if they changed that then the instance is pretty much wasted space and they can just throw it intot he real world, but eh, it's Blizzard, they never admit to making a mistake.

[sniperct]

Lotro has better examples - all the building interiors are shared instances.

[Trekkie]

I think that making the planets which players are supposed to explore and discover instanced is a good idea, but I hope that every single planet is not instanced because that would take away some of the interaction in the game.

[Skorpios666]

Im not a big fan of limited instances especially with time limits so id hope we have some non instanced planets.

I think a number of main well known planets such as Earth, Vulcan, Bajor should be explorable and not instanced. It gives the feeling of freedom and allows for places to meet up with other players and allows more possibilities to be added to them.

Theres no reason not to have instanced planets as well, maybe the random generated ones will be.

In SWG there are some planets which are free to roam, but also have instances on them. So thats throwing the two together.