Scientific Captain / Starship Roles

[Borek]

From the interviews I watched, I got the feeling that Cryptic is still discussing the particular roles that each player will have in game, either on a away mission or as part of a fleet with a ship. So, I think now it's the time for us to provide suggestions for the devs on this topic. :) We only know that it will probably not be the same roles represented in a typical MMO (tank, healer, dps...), which makes sense.

So, in this thread, I want to start a discussion about the scientific captain/ship roles, assuming there will be one. Overall, contrary to most MMOs, I don't think any particular role should be required for missions, unless maybe for endgame. However, balance must be take into account to avoid having, for example, a party of only "tactical/security captains", to just defeat enemies faster. Well, at least, it should depend on mission types.

So my ideas are...

Scientist-captain on a away mission:


Tricorder: I think the most distinguishable feature should be the scientific tricorder, which must be more effective than a "regular" tricorder equipped by the non-scientist players, whatever it may be. Perhaps a discussion about tricorders should be on a different thread, but I expect the scientific tricorder to be able to identify a wider range of elements / beings in game, in a larger area. That should be useful for a variety of missions (Collect type, rescue type, etc).
Buffs / Debuffs: Perhaps connected to the tricorder, the player should be able to provide buffs to the party and maybe debuffs to enemies. I haven't thought about this much, but "calling out" weaknesses of the enemies may provide a passive bonus to the players' combat skill.


Science-type starship:

Sensors/Scans: Similar to tricorders, I imagine the science vessels to have a much more effective sensors system, providing more information about elements you can interact with in space (like obvioulsy enemy ships), in a larger space.
Buffs / Debuffs: Same as on a away team.


EDIT: Actually, from all the posts in this thread so far, I think we can also discuss all the roles captains and ships should have in game. So carry on... :)

[Flatfingers]

Excellent set of ideas, Borek! I think this is a great idea for a thread.

I've actually got two responses. The first is just a quickie comment, which is a kind of good thing/bad thing reaction. Good thing: having a special ability to understand sensor/tricorder results. Bad thing: buffs.

I'm hoping sensors/tricorders play a meaningful role in Star Trek Online, since I'm hoping that the game environment (in space or on alien worlds) will be filled with many of the cool particles and energies that play a role in so many Star Trek episodes. Allowing a Science-oriented captain to have some special skills in this area could be both useful and fun.

On the other hand, I've long felt that buffs are the crack cocaine of MMORPGs: once you start taking them, you can't stop, and pretty soon all your gameplay is arranged around getting your next fix. Yecch. So with respect, I really hope that buffing/debuffing will not be a part of any STO character's skill arsenal, much less a Scientist's.

Now, as to my larger response... I think it might be helpful to take a step back and think about all the possible different kinds of captains. My suggestion would be to go iconic -- what things distinguished each of the Starfleet captains in the Star Trek series we've seen?

For that, I don't think we have to look any farther than the three things that are Starfleet's mandate: diplomacy, exploration, and defense.

Which means that I think Star Trek Online would work very well if captains could specialize in any one of those areas. A gift for negotiation would enable us to be a Diplomatic Captain like Jean-Luc Picard; a preference for exploration would allow us to play a Science Captain like Katherine Janeway; and an emphasis on Starfleet's defensive mission would produce a Tactical Captain like Benjamin Sisko. (Kirk was a special case; he was sort of all three styles wrapped up in one package.)

What's important to notice about this scheme is that each of these three modes is a distinct and effective style of problem-solving.

A diplomat-captain will try to find a way to resolve problems by communicating with others to try to understand their fundamental needs. Picard's gift for peaceably resolving difficult situations through negotiation was legendary.

A scientist-captain will seek to find solutions to problems by collecting information, weighing options, and implementing the course of action that best suits all the constraints of the problem. This is why Janeway so often met with her officers to hear their ideas and assess the alternatives.

And tactician-captains will want to cut through irrelevancies to find the heart of the problem and address it directly to the benefit of those whom they care about. Sisko could always be counted on to face his problems head-on and eliminate them; he always wanted to win and while he hated the cost, he wasted no time in regret for doing what had to be done to win.

Incidentally, it's no accident that Diplomat and Scientist and Tactician, in addition to representing the diplomatic, exploratory, and defensive missions of Starfleet, also line up very nicely with the Bartle types of Socializer and Explorer and Achiever, respectively. How cool would it be to develop a captain-specialization model for Star Trek Online that consciously provides equally valuable gameplay for each of these three prominent styles of play?

...

So how about this? Does this offer a useful framework for generating ideas about the kinds of gameplay features that would be fun for a scientist-captain?

And what about characters who join the Klingon faction? Their specializations should probably be different from those appropriate to Starfleet officers (you don't see a lot of diplomatic Klingons, for example ;) ) -- so what might be some good specializations for Klingon captains?

--Flatfingers

[Sullen]

On the other hand, I've long felt that buffs are the crack cocaine of MMORPGs: once you start taking them, you can't stop, and pretty soon all your gameplay is arranged around getting your next fix.


I've been clean now for about a year in my WoW career...

maybe a potion buff every once in a while.

Alright, more often than that.



...I can't stop.

TT

[Flatfingers]

maybe a potion buff every once in a while.

I thought you were going to say "I can stop whenever I want to." :D

But back to science-oriented captains....

--Flatfingers

[Sullen]

What other Star Fleet professions would you expect? I would think that there will be more than three.


As for Klingons...

tough one.

Maybe Boarding Party specialists, lol...

Tactical stuff, err... Weapons engineer, war tech/sciences, Vulcan Anti-Logic Bomb makers...

Ok, most of those are bad ideas, but Klingons are a bit of a one-minded race.

Honor specialization, Technology buffs, combat specialists; I can't really think of non-violent professions.

[Jerosh_Skitari]

For space roles of science ships in combat, what I'd like to see is enhanced stealth detection, overlapping with engineering in ship maintanence, and overlapping with tactical in targetting, specifically finding weak points on the targets and getting stronger target locks, faster.

As for the more general idea of specialized captains, I'd like to see 2 skill sets, the "background" skill set and the "command" skill set.

Background

I'd like to see a category for every bridge crew position. So, I'll list them and some benefits associated with them. The captain would have to train their bridge officer with some of these benefits however (for example, just because you know Evasive Maneuver Sigma-17 doesn't mean your helmsman/helmswoman/helmstransgeneder will).

These skills would actually be the same available to your bridge crew as they advance, but as you were already once a bridge officer in one of these fields, it makes sense that you would have much of that knowledge already.


Helm: Many people think of Jean-Luc Picard as a diplomat, and while he is, he wasn't always so. Early in his Starfleet career, he was, in fact, a flight controller (helmsman + navigator). This allowed him to understand starship maneuvers at a more fundamental level than captains from other fields might. Captain Jonathan Archer also had a background in piloting. This helped him out more than a few times to think of his way out of sticky situations using unique ship maneuvers. The benefit of having a background in piloting would be access to advanced ship maneuvers.
Engineering: Because of his impressive leadership during the Dominion War, many believe that Captain Ben Sisko began his career in the tactical field, however, a little searching on Memory Alpha will tell you that he studied to be an engineer at the academy (this is evidenced by his working at Utopia Planitia Shipyards and his building of the Bajoran Lightship). Some benefits from this would be that by knowing what a ship can handle only like an engineer can, you essentially can expand the limits (for short durations) of what the warp reactor can do. Additionally, the implementation of alien technology into your ship would take much less time as an engineering captain.
Tactical/Security: Commander Worf rose through the ranks as a tactical/security officer (spending a brief time at the helm). This made him a much more able captain during combat and gave him a great advantage on the ground. Benefits to captains who have a background in tactical/security might be having access to advanced attack maneuvers and the ability to use a phaser like it's nobody's business. Also maybe a slight hp boost if stats are like a more typical MMO while on the ground.
Medical: Dr. Crusher makes her way up in the ranks and gets herself a medical ship (albeit in an alternate universe, but stick with me here). Having a medical background allows you to understand the logistics of the sickbay and as such, a captain with a medical background has much more efficient sickbay(s). Perhaps you even have the ability to have more sickbays than normal. On the ground, as you're a doctor, your first aid would be much more effective than other captains' first aid efforts.
Science: As for space, see above. As for ground... I've got nothin. Maybe helps you find necessary minerals better. Perhaps even having a computer science aspect to the science background, and you can hack stuff.
Counselor/Morale Officer: After Commander Troi took her test, she became officially eligible to captain a ship. Her background as counselor would give a supreme effect on ships morale and efficiency. As for my ideas on how morale might work, click here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=157776&postcount=32). I would consider Morale Officer to be the Klingon equivalent to a counselor. The morale officer would keep the Klingon crew charged for battle, excited about the glories of death and all that other Klingon BS. :D
Communications: If anyone's going to be a diplomat, it's going to be the comm-backgrounded captain. Having a communications background allows you to more readily understand alien races, and communication is often the key in negotiation. In group battles, it would also help coordinate with other ships (manifesting itself probably as a small, persistent buff).


These skill sets would be the same ones that you would select skills from for your bridge crew.

The command skill set would be an altogether different one. This is where you have skills directly related to diplomacy and exploration, overall efficiency and general ship operations. Your first officer would have a background skill set to chose from and have access to the command skill set (as he/she/it is getting command experience), however he would have significantly less skill points than you. You might even be able to chose that your first officer remain as a more specialized officer (by giving him/her/it only the minimum command skills and focusing all future skills on his/her/its original are). A canon example of this is Spock, who was both science and first officer.

*sigh* I hate when I get on a roll like that, I type too much and stay up too late. Oh well.

[Fencer8]

Well the one thing that you missed about Kirk was that if you are to be like him you must be willing to jump into bed with any and all female types at every opertunity to further your mission goals .

[Flatfingers]

Well the one thing that you missed about Kirk was that if you are to be like him you must be willing to jump into bed with any and all female types at every opertunity to further your mission goals .

The science of tactical diplomacy.

:)

(Or maybe "tactile" diplomacy would be more accurate....)

--Flatfingers

[marscentral]

Well the one thing that you missed about Kirk was that if you are to be like him you must be willing to jump into bed with any and all female types at every opertunity to further your mission goals .

Kirk style Captaining gets you a bonus to diplomacy and a debuff from your itchy space-herpes.

[jhem99]

"Mr Paris, reduce manifold drag by increasing the matter-antimatter intermix ratio"
"Excuse me, captain, but the starboard nacelle has an imbalance in the forward plasma relay lobe"
"compensate"
"Excuse me, captain, but How do I do that? I'm only a pilot"
"Mr Paris, you're dismissed. Report to engineering for training tomorrow 0600"
"Excuse me, Captain, this ship doesn't have an engineering section. We're in a shuttle, ma'am"

[Kitsunami]

some great ideas there.

But you got to remember that evn if it is a mmo, its still star trek.

The devs will have to be very careful how they do things such as 'buffs' to represent things from the show. If they overdo it and add a mass of skills, buffs and the likes, it will look like some sort of WoW-Trek thing and the hardcores wont want to play.

I mean, whats wrong with just having a inventory with tricorder, medical items, whatever, and then having a simple 'experiance' meter with said items, that is boosted depending on your chosen position ? (Medical get say, +20% exp gain on any medical item, and in harvesting herbs et for medicine...Command gets a +5 or +10 bonus to most equipment, as a general thing. Engineering, +30 to all engineering equip...etc etc.) Which means that chosen career in starfleet gives you added 'experiance' with chosen careers things.

And onto ships:

Said careers should get bonus's on the ship.

IE: Engineering - +20% bonus to all engineering related duties. IE, damage control faster, more efficient. Warp engines able to go faster for longer, more power to everything...

Command - +10 in general to everything, because a captain inspires their crew !

Medical - +20% in sickbay for healing hurt crew, moral increase..etc

Just a thought...trek doesnt however need things skill based Ie

To use a tricorder, you should not need a button that is 'use tricorder' skill. Nor should you require buffs such as say...increasing shield recharge rate or whatever (which'd be called 'remodulate shields' etc...)

Instead, you simply have a station for engineering. Said station alllows you to manually (or command npc to) change power allocated to shields or weapons. More power ? more recharge, efficiency, etc etc, but loss of some on the station you transferred from.

Of course, the efficiency of this, how much you can transfer without overloading things, etc etc, should be based on the crews experiane level. A fresh out of hte acadamy engineer wont be as good as a battle hardened 5 year experianced one, who knows alllll the 'tricks'

[Hyperion2206]

I want to take the idea a bit further.
Beside your skills that you get from your respective department you used to work in you should also have personal skills.
Say you're a Human, so you could chose if you're a aggressive person ( would give you a bonus if you com from Tactical ), a kind person (would give you a bonus if you are more a diplomat style captain).
These personal skills would be chosen at the start of the game and you can't change them throughout the game.
IMHO that would give your captain a personality and would make him/her special.

[Kitsunami]

It would be interesting if they did it oblivion-esque style

With traits such as 'personality' etc.

[edge-stormcrow]

my idea. 4-5 Bridge roles: Captain, Tactical, Navigation(pilot), Science, Engineering. You can assume any role at anytime, and your friends online can take the spots of your usual NPC bridge crew if you want to use 1 ship. but could have 5 captains in 5 ships with AI NPC bridge too.

- captain orders the other players to all diplomacy text options, orders all warp locations and attacks, shield etc.. it is up to the other members to repsond to the orders.

- navigator does all the ships flying tactical manoevers, orbits.. but does not fire weapons.

- Tactical gets locks. selects targets (if not given specific target from captain), and responds to and deck-deck combat and boarding.

- Engineering covers all repair teams, energy levels, engine conditions shield frequencies..

- Science is responsible for complex scans, biological, atmospheric, spacial.. tactical,, warp signatures, shield modulations.

All players relay information to the captain player (which is what the NPC's will do too) and the captain responds.

Without any other clan mates on it would simply play much like bridge commander.

[edge-stormcrow]

no need for personal "skill points" Your skill would be in your diplomacy as captain (dont get the ship destroyed etc).. or how fancy your tactical skills are.. or how precise your scientific recommendation / scans are.. or if you can get that warp 5 engine to 5.1 in an emergency..

you would need "skill points" your play style would be your skill !

and people could good karma you for good play.

[Necro]

the scientific tricorder idea got me thinking, what about allowing it to better analize your enemies anatomy thus allowing better damage.

[Hyperion2206]

my idea. 4-5 Bridge roles: Captain, Tactical, Navigation(pilot), Science, Engineering. You can assume any role at anytime, and your friends online can take the spots of your usual NPC bridge crew if you want to use 1 ship. but could have 5 captains in 5 ships with AI NPC bridge too.

- captain orders the other players to all diplomacy text options, orders all warp locations and attacks, shield etc.. it is up to the other members to repsond to the orders.

- navigator does all the ships flying tactical manoevers, orbits.. but does not fire weapons.

- Tactical gets locks. selects targets (if not given specific target from captain), and responds to and deck-deck combat and boarding.

- Engineering covers all repair teams, energy levels, engine conditions shield frequencies..

- Science is responsible for complex scans, biological, atmospheric, spacial.. tactical,, warp signatures, shield modulations.

All players relay information to the captain player (which is what the NPC's will do too) and the captain responds.

Without any other clan mates on it would simply play much like bridge commander.

I'm sorry but this is not the topic of this thread and player crews (in any form and shape^^) are ruled out by the Devs.
And the idea with the 5 ships isn't really practicable. I don't see why it should be fun when I'm shot at but can't return fire just because I'm the "science captain".

[_Pax_]

What other Star Fleet professions would you expect?
My vision; note that "ships" is more a "tendency" or "easier to get", than an absolute restriction of "must use this kind of ship":

Science (which might include Medical);
... GENERAL: sensor advantages (see things further out; lock weapons at greater range; counter-stealth abilities; learn more about a target or object than others would; etc). Also, perhaps faster completion of "research ____" mission objectives.
... SHIPS: Science ships, scouts, survey ships, hospital ships

Tactical (the combat specialists);
... GENERAL: greater accuracy with weapons, especially when targetting sub-systems. Maybe slightly higher damage from the same weapons.
... SHIPS: the more combat-specific, well-armed ships

Engineering (the "healers" of space battles ...?);
... GENERAL: enhanced repair, of self and others
... SHIPS: Salvage ships; repair ships; maybe even mobile space-docks?

Diplomatic Corps;
... GENERAL: enhanced PvE negotiation; in PvP, maybe the ability to delay/slow/distract the enemy
... SHIPS: honestly, I don't know, exactly. Probably "non-specialist" ships of lighter armament. FASTER ships, maybe.

Intelligence Corps;
... GENERAL: stealth; deception; superior cryptographics (hack enemy systems; intercept enemy communications; PvE code-breaking advantages)
... SHIPS: Scouts, cloakable ships, Q-ships (meaning, "it looks like a civvie freighter, but it packs a frigate's firepower!"), maybe limited access to non-faction ships



As for Klingons...

The same, really.

[edge-stormcrow]

that aint a bad idea ! good one

[TheMasterpiece]

Excellent set of ideas, Borek! I think this is a great idea for a thread.

I've actually got two responses. The first is just a quickie comment, which is a kind of good thing/bad thing reaction. Good thing: having a special ability to understand sensor/tricorder results. Bad thing: buffs.

I'm hoping sensors/tricorders play a meaningful role in Star Trek Online, since I'm hoping that the game environment (in space or on alien worlds) will be filled with many of the cool particles and energies that play a role in so many Star Trek episodes. Allowing a Science-oriented captain to have some special skills in this area could be both useful and fun.

On the other hand, I've long felt that buffs are the crack cocaine of MMORPGs: once you start taking them, you can't stop, and pretty soon all your gameplay is arranged around getting your next fix. Yecch. So with respect, I really hope that buffing/debuffing will not be a part of any STO character's skill arsenal, much less a Scientist's.

Now, as to my larger response... I think it might be helpful to take a step back and think about all the possible different kinds of captains. My suggestion would be to go iconic -- what things distinguished each of the Starfleet captains in the Star Trek series we've seen?

For that, I don't think we have to look any farther than the three things that are Starfleet's mandate: diplomacy, exploration, and defense.

Which means that I think Star Trek Online would work very well if captains could specialize in any one of those areas. A gift for negotiation would enable us to be a Diplomatic Captain like Jean-Luc Picard; a preference for exploration would allow us to play a Science Captain like Katherine Janeway; and an emphasis on Starfleet's defensive mission would produce a Tactical Captain like Benjamin Sisko. (Kirk was a special case; he was sort of all three styles wrapped up in one package.)

What's important to notice about this scheme is that each of these three modes is a distinct and effective style of problem-solving.

A diplomat-captain will try to find a way to resolve problems by communicating with others to try to understand their fundamental needs. Picard's gift for peaceably resolving difficult situations through negotiation was legendary.

A scientist-captain will seek to find solutions to problems by collecting information, weighing options, and implementing the course of action that best suits all the constraints of the problem. This is why Janeway so often met with her officers to hear their ideas and assess the alternatives.

And tactician-captains will want to cut through irrelevancies to find the heart of the problem and address it directly to the benefit of those whom they care about. Sisko could always be counted on to face his problems head-on and eliminate them; he always wanted to win and while he hated the cost, he wasted no time in regret for doing what had to be done to win.

Incidentally, it's no accident that Diplomat and Scientist and Tactician, in addition to representing the diplomatic, exploratory, and defensive missions of Starfleet, also line up very nicely with the Bartle types of Socializer and Explorer and Achiever, respectively. How cool would it be to develop a captain-specialization model for Star Trek Online that consciously provides equally valuable gameplay for each of these three prominent styles of play?

...

So how about this? Does this offer a useful framework for generating ideas about the kinds of gameplay features that would be fun for a scientist-captain?

And what about characters who join the Klingon faction? Their specializations should probably be different from those appropriate to Starfleet officers (you don't see a lot of diplomatic Klingons, for example ;) ) -- so what might be some good specializations for Klingon captains?

--Flatfingers



Id actually never though of the diplomacy/ defender catpain. If we have captains of classes (science helm tactical etc) and at the same time some speciality then this could really work out great

[TheMasterpiece]

the scientific tricorder idea got me thinking, what about allowing it to better analize your enemies anatomy thus allowing better damage.



thats a good idea. Itd have to be a special ability though or class restricted.

[arakkis]

This is the first thread I have subscribed to because it is a great topic.

Star Trek has primarily had the story elements of shows happening as a result of exploration. That's not to say that at times Fed captains haven't gone looking for trouble, but that combat was mostly seen as a last resort.

The Klingons, however, are all about combat and glory. I think the divide in the philosophies of the two different factions gives a unique opportunity to give the player a choice of how they want to deal with most situations.

Spread the peaceful scientific philosophy of the Federation or smash and conquer to expand the reach and power of the Klingon Empire.

This would give a "good" side and a "bad" side for players to choose from and hopefully help to balance the population a bit.

[Kinjiru]

The Klingons, however, are all about combat and glory. I think the divide in the philosophies of the two different factions gives a unique opportunity to give the player a choice of how they want to deal with most situations.

Spread the peaceful scientific philosophy of the Federation or smash and conquer to expand the reach and power of the Klingon Empire.


I wouldn't discount Klingon Scientists out of hand. (Or any other profession that's not strictly martial by nature.) We don't see any other overt professions in the various series, in fact, the only one that I can think of offhand would be the diplomat Chancellor Gorkon, but they would have to exist.

Klingon Science must be inferred from what we don't see in this case. Obviously, they have enough of a scientific community to discover Warp Drive, create and use sensors, Disruptors, Shields, transport technology. They had all of these things before they met the Federation. They developed those technologies on their own.

I mean, how do we know that those Captains that we do see don't have some other professional skill?

[bobh]

I wouldn't discount Klingon Scientists out of hand. (Or any other profession that's not strictly martial by nature.) We don't see any other overt professions in the various series, in fact, the only one that I can think of offhand would be the diplomat Chancellor Gorkon, but they would have to exist.

Klingon Science must be inferred from what we don't see in this case. Obviously, they have enough of a scientific community to discover Warp Drive, create and use sensors, Disruptors, Shields, transport technology. They had all of these things before they met the Federation. They developed those technologies on their own.

I mean, how do we know that those Captains that we do see don't have some other professional skill?

There are quite a few episodes that use Klingon scientists in TNG and at least one in Enterprise.

I think Kin is spot on. I'll bet there is some sort of research/scientific aspect to the growth of fleets, and hopefully as well when Trade/Crafting gets fleshed out.

[GundamAce]

Personally, I'm hoping for a skill based advancement system that lets me grab some abilities from each area of play.

[Hyperion2206]

Personally, I'm hoping for a skill based advancement system that lets me grab some abilities from each area of play.

If I'm not mistaken Jack Emmert already said that ST:O will not be skill based.

[Borek]

From most of the posts, it seems to me that we should discuss first the roles in general (do we need them or just use a skill base system?), and not just the science role specifically. I tried to edit the title to reflect a more broad discussion, but the main thread title remained the same. Oh well...

So please, just continue the discussion on roles in general or the science role...

[Borek]

some great ideas there.

But you got to remember that evn if it is a mmo, its still star trek.

The devs will have to be very careful how they do things such as 'buffs' to represent things from the show. If they overdo it and add a mass of skills, buffs and the likes, it will look like some sort of WoW-Trek thing and the hardcores wont want to play.

I understand your concern (and the concern of other people, including Flatfingers) about this. I must confess that I am a WoW fan, but I agree that Star Trek should be a pretty unique MMO on certain things, if not most.

On my first post, I was really trying to be specific on the gameplay involved and not just thinking conceptualy about the roles. For example, we know science-type officers and ships are able to use sensors/scans/tricorders like nobody else, right? But how would that actually be represented on the gameplay? Maybe not buffs, but perhaps some set of abilities?

About your idea to have "bonus" for certain areas, I think that could also work, but I'm worried that everybody would just end up doing the same things, having the same abilities and so on during a PC-only away team. That's why I prefer more specific roles, even if they should not be equal to what we see on other MMOs, like WoW.

EDIT: While I mentioned on my first post that I think no role should be mandatory in a group, I also think that at the end of a mission, someone may say: "I'm glad we brought a scientist-captain, to identify that hidden bomb, othwise we would need a medic down here too." And... "I'm glad we brought a engineer-captain to disarm the bomb in time". You know, these kind of things that give lots of different options and uniqueness to players.

[arakkis]

I wouldn't discount Klingon Scientists out of hand. (Or any other profession that's not strictly martial by nature.) We don't see any other overt professions in the various series, in fact, the only one that I can think of offhand would be the diplomat Chancellor Gorkon, but they would have to exist.

Klingon Science must be inferred from what we don't see in this case. Obviously, they have enough of a scientific community to discover Warp Drive, create and use sensors, Disruptors, Shields, transport technology. They had all of these things before they met the Federation. They developed those technologies on their own.

I mean, how do we know that those Captains that we do see don't have some other professional skill?

I didn't discount Klingon scientists, nor diplomats. In fact, the Klingons must also have skilled diplomats since they brokered an arms deal with the Romulans that got them cloaking technology in exchange for ships in the original series.

My point is that a good reason for the Federation and the Klingons to again be at war is that the Klingons have rediscovered their martial roots and have begun conquering worlds to expand their empire. This would allow for a clear distinction between the two factions and allow players to choose to either be relatively peaceful explorers or iron fisted galactic conquerers.

If I'm not mistaken Jack Emmert already said that ST:O will not be skill based.

Source please. I have listened to every interview I can find and I have heard nothing of the sort.

[GundamAce]

If I'm not mistaken Jack Emmert already said that ST:O will not be skill based.

Oh well that sucks. Skill based advancement is so much nicer than level based advancement.

[arakkis]

I honestly think that Hyperion is mistaken. I have yet to see any definitive answer on a skill based system, so I wouldn't make any conclusions unless it came from the mouth or fingertips of a Cryptic employee.

[whpsh]

I sure hope they go with a skill based game ... I'm so very tired of one dimensional characters ...

Roles need to be fluid and changing things.

Like in today's military, officers start out as particular types of platoon leaders (Infantry, Armor, etc) but in the process of becoming a company commander (effectively the next step in leadership progression), they typically endure stints as secretaries for other commanders, supply officers, intelligence officers and so on.

The best thing, I think, would be a stepped pyramid shaped role progression where people start off in very different roles but they all lead up to captain (or whatever the top rank may be). At each successive step, roles converge just a little so that, at cap, it would be possible to be the Captain of a diplomatic ship, an exploration ship or purely a military vessel, regardless of which path you started on.

The best way I can explain it is to ask the questions:
Can Worf ever become the Captain of a ship with an Enterprise type mission? If he can't, why not? If he can, then maybe the path he chose means he gets bonuses to targeting where Geordi might get shield bonuses.
Regardless, wouldn't they both be qualified to command that type of mission?

[arakkis]

Qualified, yes, best person for the job, no. To keep the military analogy, I personally would not want to serve in an infantry division if the CO spent his entire career in supply. He may be fantastic on paper, but without the experience of putting his boots on the field, he will never be as good as someone who has been there and done that.

So if Worf is a captain and is in a first contact scenario, then I am sure he will be able to handle a friendly, reasonable species. But if they start to **** him off, I think they will end up with a Klingon dagger sticking out of their head.

[westquester]

I've never seen Jack say anything about no having a skill based system. He has said several times, however, that they are -not- doing a level based system.

Makes me -very- happy ^_^

He also said that while you can chose to be a science captain, tactical captain, what-have-you, it will NOT affect your choice of ships.

As for roles... well... I'm still trying to figure it out. I mean, tactical is the easiest. You get combat bonuses. We really don't know the other types?

What we need to be thinking about is not the RP task, but what button you would push. I mean, do we have a button as a diplomacy captain to shout "Straw man Fallacy!" and slam the table Pheonix Wright style? How, in this day of online web sources, do you have conversation trees? I guess you could do it Mass Effect/KOTOR style, but that seems rather slow. So what buttons do you push?

[Silverspar]

I've never seen Jack say anything about no having a skill based system. He has said several times, however, that they are -not- doing a level based system.

Makes me -very- happy ^_^

He also said that while you can chose to be a science captain, tactical captain, what-have-you, it will NOT affect your choice of ships.

As for roles... well... I'm still trying to figure it out. I mean, tactical is the easiest. You get combat bonuses. We really don't know the other types?

What we need to be thinking about is not the RP task, but what button you would push. I mean, do we have a button as a diplomacy captain to shout "Straw man Fallacy!" and slam the table Pheonix Wright style? How, in this day of online web sources, do you have conversation trees? I guess you could do it Mass Effect/KOTOR style, but that seems rather slow. So what buttons do you push?

I find irony in the demand for skill systems over level systems, because all a skill system is, is a level system with a different face and skin on it, so the grind is still going to be present, no matter what you do.

[KL0k]

I find irony in the demand for skill systems over level systems, because all a skill system is, is a level system with a different face and skin on it, so the grind is still going to be present, no matter what you do.

not really, to be honest, since that will turnout that every charakter is on the same baselevel, with just some skills that could give you the edge.

[Silverspar]

not really, to be honest, since that will turnout that every charakter is on the same baselevel, with just some skills that could give you the edge.

The concept of trying ot remove level out of games is a false representation that grind will not exist, which is untrue. You will still have to train those skills and level them up, and despite the fact the actual way to progress in-game has not been revealed, there will undoubtedly have to be a method to earning rank, be it experience or based on your total skill progression, it will still be present in the end, which in essence, is still going to be a levelling system, no matter the name it takes.

[KL0k]

The concept of trying ot remove level out of games is a false representation that grind will not exist, which is untrue. You will still have to train those skills and level them up, and despite the fact the actual way to progress in-game has not been revealed, there will undoubtedly have to be a method to earning rank, be it experience or based on your total skill progression, it will still be present in the end, which in essence, is still going to be a levelling system, no matter the name it takes.

i know what you mean, but its not revealed how the system will work out in the end, nor the gamemechanics at all. and i think that it will be different then other MMO's where you get all these bonuses like 5k on healthbar when you lvlup your character and all that.
well, i just wait n see. but if they come up with a system where you can get shot by some npc/pc with a phaser/disruptor and i can jump around like nothing big happened, you will see my whining (or rant) on the forums, thats for sure..

[Silverspar]

i know what you mean, but its not revealed how the system will work out in the end, nor the gamemechanics at all. and i think that it will be different then other MMO's where you get all these bonuses like 5k on healthbar when you lvlup your character and all that.
well, i just wait n see. but if they come up with a system where you can get shot by some npc/pc with a phaser/disruptor and i can jump around like nothing big happened, you will see my whining on the forums, thats for sure..

Mor elike skills and ship will determine things like what armor you can slot for hull points as well as shields, as well as weaponry and personal ground equipment to.

[Korrific]

I find irony in the demand for skill systems over level systems, because all a skill system is, is a level system with a different face and skin on it, so the grind is still going to be present, no matter what you do.
From my POV, a skill-based system opens up options that a level-based system shuts out. For example, my WoW Mage/Engineer will never learn Lockpicking or any sort of Tracking, regardless of level. But my STO Captain with a Tactical background might be able to learn something about science, and my Med might be a certified marksman.

But anyway, back on topic. ...um, about which I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said :confused:

[bobh]

I've never seen Jack say anything about no having a skill based system. He has said several times, however, that they are -not- doing a level based system.



I've gone over all the vids and written interviews a few times and I still don't see an comments about not being a level based game except in reference to levels, i.e. rooms/dungeons, on tours of duty or missions.

At least I believe that was the context.

My preferenced is skill based. Considering the ability to pick areas of specialty pre-captaincy, which Jack has gone on record about, this method is strongly suggested.

[somebody]

Maybe the special science scaners/tricorders will allow the detection of new materials in asteroids or on alien planets which can be used by other players to enhance their ships:D