Jack Emmerts words ...

[Flixi]

in the last Interview in Indianapolis, Jack said something that made me worry a bit, but i don't know.

reference link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?PLAY=1267&VIEW=videos&GAME=352&bhcp=1

He says:
For game's content youn need "the infrastructure, the pipeline, the tools and such to enable people to do that stuff"

"And we already have ith with CHAMPIONS, right?!"

"We ship it next spring, boom!"

"Alright, STAR TREK, WOOM, we just use the engine, make some tweeks and make it appropriate for Star Trek - Done!"

I understand that you have a big advantage with your pre-existing engine from Champions, but in some way I really hope that Cryptic really puts effort and love into that "doing some tweeks and make it appropriate".
You know, we all want a Star Trek Game, na matter which engine is in the background, but we all want a game worth playing it, fun playing it and with so many fantastic gameplay feats, ideas and Star Trek Feelings in it. Please don't make it just "change Graphics and Wuum - Done" Please. :)


Thanks

[Minigig]

Im sure its more then just WOOM. and you have a star trek game. He was just saying compared to other MMO companies this would be easier cause of the engine that they have already.

[Foxstab]

What he meant by it is that they already have a very sophisticated engine that can do all the 3D rendering and physics emulation that they require and that they just need to refit it to be able to perform the extra features that their design vision for STO requires in comparison to other companies which would first need to take a few years to just create an engine first.


If you had actually payed attention to Jack, you'd have also heard the part where he says very specifically that he want to actually make a unique startrek game and not just slap a ST skin on top of a common grinder.

[Minigig]

What he meant by it is that they already have a very sophisticated engine that can do all the 3D rendering and physics emulation that they require and that they just need to refit it to be able to perform the extra features that their design vision for STO requires in comparison to other companies which would first need to take a few years to just create an engine first.


If you had actually payed attention to Jack, you'd have also heard the part where he says very specifically that he want to actually make a unique startrek game and not just slap a ST skin on top of a common grinder.

Thats up I said with just alot less words .... more or less. :p

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

I think you're reading far too much into that.

He's essentially saying if you already have Photoshop, you don't need to reinvent Photoshop to make a new picture.

[Minigig]

thats what we both said .... again more or less. :D

or another way of thinking of it is , if you have the wheel , why reinvent it.

[Falin]

I think you're reading far too much into that.

He's essentially saying if you already have Photoshop, you don't need to reinvent Photoshop to make a new picture.


actually he's reading it just right, if you do cookie cutter designing. Change graphics, rename classes, tweak here and there and you have a whole new game, but same engine.

looks like that's what there doing CO in space here we come!

Instead of making a game that's star trek and applying MMO to it, we're taking an MMO and applying ST to it. very backwards and wrong approach.

[LordDave]

actually he's reading it just right, if you do cookie cutter designing. Change graphics, rename classes, tweak here and there and you have a whole new game, but same engine.

looks like that's what there doing CO in space here we come!

Instead of making a game that's star trek and applying MMO to it, we're taking an MMO and applying ST to it. very backwards and wrong approach.

That's like saying Jedi Knight 2 was Quake 3 because they used the same engine. :rolleyes:

[Falin]

That's like saying Jedi Knight 2 was Quake 3 because they used the same engine. :rolleyes:

No, because jedi Knight 2 actually heavily modified the engine to be what they needed, Cryptic is saying "we don't need to modify the engine to get what we want", essentially meaning just cut and paste graphics and you have a new game.

[Raso719]

I haven't played CO, nor am I a programer, but can a engine like that be made to work with 3D space ship combat? If we have 2D space ship combat, or they cut it entierly because it's too hard, so help me god I'll go play the new KOTOR MMO by EA untill my eyes bleed and Gene Roddenberry does a barrle roll in space.

[LordDave]

No, because jedi Knight 2 actually heavily modified the engine to be what they needed, Cryptic is saying "we don't need to modify the engine to get what we want", essentially meaning just cut and paste graphics and you have a new game.
Maybe they don't. Jedi Kinight 2 had to put in a full melee saber combat system along with force powers. Champions Online has all sorts of effects like beams and explosives and flight and space combat and going to other planets and god knows what.
The minor tweaks are because CO is so dynamic in what it can do, it has all the basic parts that a Star Trek Game needs.


I haven't played CO, nor am I a programer, but can a engine like that be made to work with 3D space ship combat? If we have 2D space ship combat, or they cut it entierly because it's too hard, so help me god I'll go play the new KOTOR MMO by EA untill my eyes bleed and Gene Roddenberry does a barrle roll in space.

Yep, 3D space flight. CO can do it.

[Raso719]

Yep, 3D space flight. CO can do it.


Hhmm, I might try to get a demo of CO just to kinda get a feel for the ground stuff. At least it might help me get into cryptic's minds.

[LordDave]

Hhmm, I might try to get a demo of CO just to kinda get a feel for the ground stuff. At least it might help me get into cryptic's minds.

You'll have to wait until spring.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

I haven't played CO, nor am I a programer, but can a engine like that be made to work with 3D space ship combat? If we have 2D space ship combat, or they cut it entierly because it's too hard, so help me god I'll go play the new KOTOR MMO by EA untill my eyes bleed and Gene Roddenberry does a barrle roll in space.

For goodness sakes. What's the real difference between a Superhero flying around a cityscape, shooting heat vision from his eyes, and a Galaxy-class starship flying around a star field shooting phasers?

It's purely cosmetic. If anything, space combat is less taxing on the engine, as presumably there's far less geometry to manage by comparison to an animated humanoid figure and city architecture.

[Dustnite]

actually he's reading it just right, if you do cookie cutter designing. Change graphics, rename classes, tweak here and there and you have a whole new game, but same engine.

looks like that's what there doing CO in space here we come!

Instead of making a game that's star trek and applying MMO to it, we're taking an MMO and applying ST to it. very backwards and wrong approach.

Ah Falin, glad your back on the forums. I love these little jewels of crazy.

The engine was designed to change content dynamically. What's nice about the Cryptic2 engine is that it's customization is powerful. It really is something akin to Photoshop, it's not simply "made for CO"...

What happened to: "STO is just going to be a WoW Shooter!"

[Flixi]

ah ok, thanks a lot guys and girls ... I did not know that he was talking of a technical programing aspect only.

I worried a bit because it sounded much like copy paste their former game :)

I am kind of noob regarding "engines".

But the statement with photoshep described it well for me: "You can start making images when you have photoshop. Other companies have to build their own graphic tool first."

[desstl]

Keeping in mind the fact a game engine controls the phyics and graphics of the game not the content its possible to have to completely different games and not have the player have any clue they use the same engine. I would not worry about the fact STO and CO use the same engine if we hadn't been told no one would probably notice. FOR that matter SOE could have built an Star Trek MMO off the SWG engine and made major money becuase once you change the backgrounds and swap out the ship and clothing designs the premise is exactly the same. Well about 90% athe same anyway.

[KO_Gilligan]

If Jack said "We made a special Star Trek engine, capable of creating unique episodes that you can be the star of... and you won't need a computer, just fax or email us your coordinates" would that make everyone happy?

I'm glad the OP wasn't really trying to troll up some cynical viewpoints, it was an honest question .... but the negative reponses you see here show you how full of ignorance this group really is. I got to give it to everyone who bothered explainig that using the same engine does not equal the same game with a cheap coat of paint. Cryptic has been claiming the adaptability of this engine long before we knew they were even doing this game. Now they will prove it... Then they will make more MMOs with it. At least that's the plan.

I give Cryptic the big thumbs up for "Woom" and BOOM we get a fun game.

If their engine can be adapted to easily make complex and unique MMOs (as they have said all along), maybe this will raise the bar and we may no longer have to suffer through the pains of featureless franchise grabs such as Age of Conan.

[marscentral]

It does make you wonder.. if they can make MMOs as diverse as a Superhero Action-fest Champions Online and Space Explorer-romp Star Trek Online... what else can they make with it?

[KO_Gilligan]

Hhmm, I might try to get a demo of CO just to kinda get a feel for the ground stuff. At least it might help me get into cryptic's minds.

Sign up on the CO forums now, we're goin' Beta very soon :)
It's a great game

[KO_Gilligan]

It does make you wonder.. if they can make MMOs as diverse as a Superhero Action-fest Champions Online and Space Explorer-romp Star Trek Online... what else can they make with it?

As Cyjack has speculated, I think you might notice that Warmachine appears to be on the drawing board already.... :) Or maybe we're just dreamers...
Cause that would have me playing 3 Cryptic MMOs :D
http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/default.php

[marscentral]

Sign up on the CO forums now, we're goin' Beta very soon :)
It's a great game

I went to the CO forums to sign up a couple of days ago and found my STO login worked :D

[KO_Gilligan]

I went to the CO forums to sign up a couple of days ago and found my STO login worked :D

It's still a new account though, I don't think Star Trek forum users will get Beta invites for CO :rolleyes:
Quite a few of us Star Trek nerds were asking if we could keep our CO logins on the new ST boards ... I guess I was afraid somebody else would steal KO_Gilligan :D

[marscentral]

It's worth a try though a Beta invite is a Beta invite. I didn't realise they were making Champions until I found out about STO last week. I hate it when stuff happens on the internets and no one tells me.

[KO_Gilligan]

I hate it when stuff happens on the internets and no one tells me.

as far as I know you will probably get an invite now that you signed up there

Millions of AOL users share your frustration :D
(outdated humor)

[The_Padre]

If Jack said "We made a special Star Trek engine, capable of creating unique episodes that you can be the star of... and you won't need a computer, just fax or email us your coordinates" would that make everyone happy?

I'm glad the OP wasn't really trying to troll up some cynical viewpoints, it was an honest question .... but the negative reponses you see here show you how full of ignorance this group really is. I got to give it to everyone who bothered explainig that using the same engine does not equal the same game with a cheap coat of paint. Cryptic has been claiming the adaptability of this engine long before we knew they were even doing this game. Now they will prove it... Then they will make more MMOs with it. At least that's the plan.

I give Cryptic the big thumbs up for "Woom" and BOOM we get a fun game.

If their engine can be adapted to easily make complex and unique MMOs (as they have said all along), maybe this will raise the bar and we may no longer have to suffer through the pains of featureless franchise grabs such as Age of Conan.

And if successful will get over one of the biggest problems that companies who decide to make MMOs suffer; the huge cost of development. After reading an article a couple of years ago most MMO makers stated that that was one of the major concerns with these games and why some don't even make it to release. They said that in the future MMOs would need to be able to be made with a more universal game engine that you could license to cut development costs and production time down.

[JerryC]

The point was that they dont have to go through that phase of development. Which cuts a couple of years out of the development time. So they need to tweak it, for STO, develop graphics, content and about 50000000000 star systems to cover the the two quadrants that will be in the game at release time. Then develop the PvP and advancement system and viola done, time for alpha testing.

Do the alpha testing, make more tweaks and additions and poof, time for beta testing.

Do the beta testing and make final pre release tweaks. Finish the art and go then, go gold :)

Games done, its to to boldly go where no man has gone before.

[KO_Gilligan]

This is a common theme when promoting STO... That they have this wonderful new engine that new projects can be done very quickly. Sounds to me like they want franchise execs to take notice of this new turn-key way Cryptic will make a unique MMO from an existing license.

Star Trek's significance to Cryptic is the ultimate acid test for their new engine.


You don't really need to read between the lines here or in what Jack said:
(from the FAQ)
"...Cryptic's engine, technology platform and content pipelines have become so mature that with a small team we can quickly ramp up a project. "

[Fischfaust]

For goodness sakes. What's the real difference between a Superhero flying around a cityscape, shooting heat vision from his eyes, and a Galaxy-class starship flying around a star field shooting phasers?

It's purely cosmetic. If anything, space combat is less taxing on the engine, as presumably there's far less geometry to manage by comparison to an animated humanoid figure and city architecture.

Here here. Well said. I was thinking this just other day.

[KO_Gilligan]

For goodness sakes. What's the real difference between a Superhero flying around a cityscape, shooting heat vision from his eyes, and a Galaxy-class starship flying around a star field shooting phasers?

It's purely cosmetic. If anything, space combat is less taxing on the engine, as presumably there's far less geometry to manage by comparison to an animated humanoid figure and city architecture.

Here here. Well said. I was thinking this just other day.

CO has Shield like defences as a necessary aspect of battle as well.

[demonic25]

He was just trying to sound confident and cool....their is alot more to it than that :) and the effort will be in the game