What should happen if you where to die?

[Captain_M3]

I've was thinking about what the people at Star Trek Online could add to the game and thought "what happens when you die?" Please post ideas or thoughts here.:confused::confused:

[skrasis]

Well, Jack has said that there will not be excessive death penalties, so I'm thinking a beam back to sickbay or your ship spawns at the nearest starbase

Skrasis

[KL0k]

in space -> escape pods, starting again at the nearest outpost/starbase
on ground -> brought back to life by a medic or waking up in a hospital bed on the nearst outpost/starbase

[Kinjiru]

Officially, we don't know what will happen, but Jack has said that harsh penalties for character death are a thing of the past.

I can speculate that you'll respawn in the nearest safe area, whether on your ship, or in the case of ship destruction, at the nearest safe starbase.

In the case of ground combat, you might have the option of not respawning and waiting for either your ship's doctor or possibly another player with medical skills to revive you.

But again, this is all conjecture. :)

[NightWatcher]

I agree with the escape pod and sickbay idea but I think the idea of losing a ship could be interesting.

[TheMasterpiece]

I agree with the escape pod and sickbay idea but I think the idea of losing a ship could be interesting.



I like the escape pods too, and I think if your ships destroyed in space it shouldnt be able to come back, although obviously you can get another one of the same class.

[KL0k]

hm should we really get the ship back then? wouldnt it be "to easy"? i mean, im not such a big fan of death penaltys in rpgs, since thats idiotic anyways, cause if you are dead... well.. you are dead lol.
but what about losing that ship and config and you have to comeback with a smaller one? that would make the space-battles not like a sandbox scenario.

[SirRolf]

Anyone think they might do a CoH type "Exp slow debt?"
I thought that was a pretty good system. Not too harsh, but still gave you a reason not to be reckless.

-S.R.

[Kinjiru]

I like the escape pods too, and I think if your ships destroyed in space it shouldnt be able to come back, although obviously you can get another one of the same class.

I was thinking about this. Maybe an ingame mechanic could work where if your ship is destroyed, it's hulk respawns at the nearest starbase. And then part of your job could be to refit her and replace any crew that didn't get out in time.

Something like this would raise the perceived value of not just any crew loss, but also place perceived value on the ship itself.

Just a thought...

[Roka]

Anyone think they might do a CoH type "Exp slow debt?"
I thought that was a pretty good system. Not too harsh, but still gave you a reason not to be reckless.

-S.R.

I'm all for this.

[KL0k]

I was thinking about this. Maybe an ingame mechanic could work where if your ship is destroyed, it's hulk respawns at the nearest starbase. And then part of your job could be to refit her and replace any crew that didn't get out in time.

Something like this would raise the perceived value of not just any crew loss, but also place perceived value on the ship itself.

Just a thought...

that leads to another point.. should it be possible that you lose a bridge-crew member (or worst case: all of them)?

[bobh]

I've was thinking about what the people at Star Trek Online could add to the game and thought "what happens when you die?" Please post ideas or thoughts here.:confused::confused:

can i have your stuff?

and yes, Bridge Crew/General Crew should be succeptable to death.

[Kinjiru]

that leads to another point.. should it be possible that you lose a bridge-crew member (or worst case: all of them)?

That's a tough call. The following is a roundabout logic, so bear with me...

Since it's been mentioned that we could add members to our bridge crew, I think it's fair to say that we could replace bridge crew members with others. And if we can do that, that means that they aren't necessarily permanent. In which case, I think they could be at risk in times of danger.

So if we postulate that it possible to lose a bridge crew member, then that increases the perceived value of said NPCs. It also creates a mini-game in that you then have to look for and train a new replacement member.

I like it.

[EkulTails]

I think your ship should have escape pods (and you should be able to keep all the crew members that lived before the escape pods 'button' was pushed), but be able to get your ship back at a Star Base or something because I'd HATE to lose my wonderful Sovereign class ship :( As for ground, the sickbay idea is pretty good and I can't argue with that.

[walltar]

In ground combat if you die you are beamed or shuttled to your ship for resurection.
In space i am against ship loss but i hope you can outfit your ship use better nacelets etc so if your ship is destroyed you will loss some ( not much ) prestiege and you will be given new stock ship of same class. Then you must outfit it again. But this is good only if there isnt ship crafting in game or if only special starships can be crafted ( like prototype designs and so ).

[inkblaster]

I think a cool way to deal with death would be a 'temporal anamoly" kinda deal.

Like if you die on a planet or you ship gets blown up, or what not, you just bounce back to a point prior to starting the mission. So you don't lose anything per say, but you don't get any mission xp or rewards.

It's been done quite a bit on the series, I think all of them actually, so there's a basis for it. And it would explain why your ship isn't all destroyed and your crew all dead, even though that photon torpedo hit dead on.

[mattlewis53]

I think harsh death penalties are a great thing. I remember playing EverQuest a long time ago and it was the best MMO I've played to date because of the harsh death penalties. You lost experience, your gear, and you had to go back to it. This made exploration exciting - you could go anywhere in the game but you had to watch your back and weigh your options with careful consideration. Whenever I play a game like WoW or any other MMO really, I just dont care about dying because it is so inconsequential.

I wonder if I will ever again get the pleasure of sneaking around in a high level zone wondering if some huge epic mob is just around the corner waiting to eat me. This is what made it FUN - you weren't some invincible hero who could live through anything. It forced you to make friends and choose your enemies carefully. Please don't make the death penalty something stupid like just popping up at a nearby starbase with weapons disabled for 10 minutes or something. Make me have to go back and salvage my ship and rebuild part of it or something. This is a big factor in why MMOs just aren't fun anymore. Exploration is supposed to be dangerous.....

[GundamAce]

I agree with the escape pod and sickbay idea but I think the idea of losing a ship could be interesting.

I don't know about losing a ship, but I wouldn't mind having to go back to the nearest shipyard or starbase to get a new one just like the old one.

[MidniteAvenger]

Probably the only penalty for death would be one of location. I.e. you have to start out at a starbase for ship to ship combat or sickbay if you're on an away mission.

[sniperct]

I was thinking about this. Maybe an ingame mechanic could work where if your ship is destroyed, it's hulk respawns at the nearest starbase. And then part of your job could be to refit her and replace any crew that didn't get out in time.

Something like this would raise the perceived value of not just any crew loss, but also place perceived value on the ship itself.

Just a thought...

This idea rocks. Add in the value (and danger) of losing your bridge crew...

[jedison82]

There has to be a penalty for losing a space battle else only Power gamers will have the Best ships just for hack and slashing. I would put a reputation rating in the game in order for a captain to get a better ship and if you lose a ship you lose rep. Simple and effective.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

Q appears, revives you, transports you to someplace safe, and says...

If you can't take a little b!oody nose -- maybe you had better go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous -- with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross -- but it is not for the timid.

...just before leaving in a Q flash. :D

[Trekkie]

I am glad that Cryptic Studios isn't placing too high of a penalty on death, but I do think that there should be some system in place to ensure that players remain careful about what tactical decisions they make.

[undraxis]

I think harsh death penalties are a great thing. I remember playing EverQuest a long time ago and it was the best MMO I've played to date because of the harsh death penalties. You lost experience, your gear, and you had to go back to it. This made exploration exciting - you could go anywhere in the game but you had to watch your back and weigh your options with careful consideration. Whenever I play a game like WoW or any other MMO really, I just dont care about dying because it is so inconsequential.

I wonder if I will ever again get the pleasure of sneaking around in a high level zone wondering if some huge epic mob is just around the corner waiting to eat me. This is what made it FUN - you weren't some invincible hero who could live through anything. It forced you to make friends and choose your enemies carefully. Please don't make the death penalty something stupid like just popping up at a nearby starbase with weapons disabled for 10 minutes or something. Make me have to go back and salvage my ship and rebuild part of it or something. This is a big factor in why MMOs just aren't fun anymore. Exploration is supposed to be dangerous.....


I played EQ for 7 yrs, and ill have to agree on a personal level. But, there is a reason EQ never got more than half a mil subscribers (just a guess since soe rarely publisized their customer base), because of the harsh death penalties. Only a comparitive minority likes any sort of harsh death penalty, just look at wow and its 10mil subscribers. And as much as I would like STO have some sort of realism or logic, Cryptic needs to make this game very accessable to give it as much of a long life as possible. I certainly would hate for STO to mimic SWG as far as popluation numbers are concerned despite the strength of the IP.

Note: Yes I do know ST hasnt been as strong lately, but you gotta admit, the fanbase is widespread even if the later series was not as loved as the earlier ones, imho.

[desstl]

Given the fact You ship is your home as well I can't see losing it. So I'd say In space you spawn back at nearest starbase battered and ******. You then get the choice of repairing and healing crew your self at a time expense or instant heal by starbase at a monetary expense (prestige or credits). If you and your crew dies on the planet You repawn on your ship but crew member die forcing you to have to recrew and a monetary expense. If just u goes down then you away team or a player should be able to revive you on the scene.

[desstl]

I played EQ for 7 yrs, and ill have to agree on a personal level. But, there is a reason EQ never got more than half a mil subscribers (just a guess since soe rarely publisized their customer base), because of the harsh death penalties. Only a comparitive minority likes any sort of harsh death penalty, just look at wow and its 10mil subscribers. And as much as I would like STO have some sort of realism or logic, Cryptic needs to make this game very accessable to give it as much of a long life as possible. I certainly would hate for STO to mimic SWG as far as popluation numbers are concerned despite the strength of the IP.

Note: Yes I do know ST hasnt been as strong lately, but you gotta admit, the fanbase is widespread even if the later series was not as loved as the earlier ones, imho.

I don't think the fact SWG is on life support has anything to do with its death penalties. I think its more to do with the complete revamp the game undertook for no apparent reason. That alienated its fans base and cause subcription numbers to free fall. Which in turned left remaining players feeling "lonely" on empty servers and forced subcription numbers to fall even more. As long as STO doesn't try to "fix" a system that the players like or remove professions people have chose to play they won't go the way of SWG.

I know its a bit off topic... sorry.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

I think harsh death penalties are a great thing. I remember playing EverQuest a long time ago and it was the best MMO I've played to date because of the harsh death penalties. You lost experience, your gear, and you had to go back to it. This made exploration exciting - you could go anywhere in the game but you had to watch your back and weigh your options with careful consideration. Whenever I play a game like WoW or any other MMO really, I just dont care about dying because it is so inconsequential.

I wonder if I will ever again get the pleasure of sneaking around in a high level zone wondering if some huge epic mob is just around the corner waiting to eat me. This is what made it FUN - you weren't some invincible hero who could live through anything. It forced you to make friends and choose your enemies carefully. Please don't make the death penalty something stupid like just popping up at a nearby starbase with weapons disabled for 10 minutes or something. Make me have to go back and salvage my ship and rebuild part of it or something. This is a big factor in why MMOs just aren't fun anymore. Exploration is supposed to be dangerous.....

You know, so long as Cryptic includes a "DELETE" button on the character select screen, you're only one click away from all the "fun" you can handle. No one is stopping you. Knock yourself out. :cool:

[Dustnite]

You know, so long as Cryptic includes a "DELETE" button on the character select screen, you're only one click away from all the "fun" you can handle. No one is stopping you. Knock yourself out. :cool:

If it wasn't masochistic, it wouldn't be Star Trek ;)

[.Spartan]

Hmmm... I'm still on the fence regarding this topic. Currently I'm leaning towards an XP or skill penalty for 24 - 48 hours per death - cumulative and a hit to your fleet/guild resources and or your personal "toys" to some degree.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

Hmmm... I'm still on the fence regarding this topic. Currently I'm leaning towards an XP or skill penalty for 24 - 48 hours per death - cumulative and a hit to your fleet/guild resources and or your personal "toys" to some degree.

I still think Q scolding me every time I "die" would be more than enough incentive to avoid it. Particularly so if they could nab John de Lancie for the voice acting. :D

[Azurian]

The Mods should be starting to merge these similar threads. :p

Anyhow, this is what I like to see Death be handled:

If Death On-World: You simply be revived in Sickbay with the Doctor saying it's okay to return to duty. (If a medic is with you, the can revive you on-world).

If in Space: You respawn at the last Starbase you saved at. Unless someone is nearby where they could render aid (Revive in Space), and you simply repair your ship and continue or head to Starbase for Repairs.

[demyan12]

What if your ship was wreaked, and a freindly ship towed you out. I mean, most ships have a tractor beam on board. This might help if your traveling in a fleet, and the other ships could make short term repairs for you.

[Fencer8]

Does your bridge crew respawn withyou or do you start out with a green crew ?

[CJ_Hawkins]

I agree with the escape pod and sickbay idea but I think the idea of losing a ship could be interesting.

remember the movies, if a enterprise was destroyed they always got a new and better one or it was repaired and upgraded

[desstl]

Does your bridge crew respawn withyou or do you start out with a green crew ?

That would usck if you had to tain a new crew. Mor than likely though they respawn or could be recalled from your sickbay with a temp debuff to abilites.

[CRAJ]

I was thinking maybe your first officer taking command till you get to a star base. On top of that you should loss any bounes you get from the captian till you are brought back. So maybe your just in sick bay till then.

[Raso719]

I still think Q scolding me every time I "die" would be more than enough incentive to avoid it. Particularly so if they could nab John de Lancie for the voice acting. :D

OMG that would be great. A little unbelieveable, but great.
If Q scolded me for dieing, took me back in time and rubbed my nose in the primordial ooze and went on and on about life, death and so on I'd swear I'd never die again.

[CJ_Hawkins]

I still think Q scolding me every time I "die" would be more than enough incentive to avoid it. Particularly so if they could nab John de Lancie for the voice acting. :D

i hope that they use the original german voices for the german account

[KidBang]

I'm in favor of a potential permadeath system for the individual members of your bridge crew. Every time they are in a death situation, there is a small chance they won't be recovered (which gets higher everytime they "die") and you'd have to replace that crewman.

[.Spartan]

I'm in favor of a potential permadeath system for the individual members of your bridge crew. Every time they are in a death situation, there is a small chance they won't be recovered (which gets higher everytime they "die") and you'd have to replace that crewman.

I really like that idea. I can see people giving bridge crew members a red shirt after they have been critically wounded three times as a "gift" from the captain for their troubles. :p

[marscentral]

I'm not a fan of anyform of permadeath. I think there should be some penalty, but if it's too severe I think I'd be tempted to walk away. There's nothing more frustrating than having to spend time redoing things in any game.

[Awarkle]

perma death has been discussed in many different mmo forums and its always been decided that perma death is a bad move by any company. because if you went Link dead and come back and your character was perma death who would you blame.

Death penalties are there to prevent people from doing things they shouldnt, that when you die you are rewarded as it was by either slower experience gain or a minus to your stats.

i think that the city of heroes one was one of the better ones but was still poor compared to others, i think the final fantasy 11 one is the most harsh you can go from cap level to level 1 if you die enough times.

it will be interesting to see how it pans out but i dont want to be forced to lower my level to clear debt, i like grouping with low level people anyways or showing them the ropes but i dont want to be forced to do it for hours while i clear my debt.

[paynesgrey]

Anyone think they might do a CoH type "Exp slow debt?"
I thought that was a pretty good system. Not too harsh, but still gave you a reason not to be reckless.

-S.R.

I would liked to have seen the XP debt decay over time though. It made the grind even grindeyer.

Can't tell you how many times I logged into my main after a break in playing, looked at the pile of exp debt from a bad PuG experience a few months before, and logged back off to play something else...

[TasDil]

I had suggested in an earlier thread the ability to save crew (not the bridge crew) of a dying ship.

Similarly, I think when your ship is destroyed your non-bridge crew gets out in escape pods. You start back at the nearest starbase with your bridge crew and some of your regular crew, but you have to go back in a crippled state to save the rest. If a friendly ship is so inclined, they can stop by the area and pick up the survivors. In that case you get your crew back instantly (without having to go meet the friendly ship) and maybe the assisting ship gets some prestige as a result.

This could help if you are with your fleet and you happen to be destroyed. Your fleet-members could save your crew and you could get back to them quicker.

[Sorbek]

Taking a hint from Pirates of the Burning Sea:

Maybe ships could have a "durability" something like a number of points that will determine how many times you can lose that ship before you lose it completely and have to get a replacement ship. Also you should lose any kind of modifications to your ship that you gained since the last time you died.

On top of that some of your crew will not make it to the escape pods and can be lost and you will have to replace them, losing their specialties/abilities will give you a big enough reason not to be completely reckless with your ship.

[wolfrun65]

I would wonder if it would be tied into how ship progression goes. If you move up ships by fulfilling missions, PvP, etc & not dying, then you would stop at the current class when you die & that counter would reset at that ship level. Die before fulfilling the next ship class, reset.

It would keep people from throwing themselves into situations constantly. I am not a fan of perma-dead, but there does need to be stiffer penalties to death. Too many MMO treat is as an off hand thing.

[bitgolem]

Anyone think they might do a CoH type "Exp slow debt?"
I thought that was a pretty good system. Not too harsh, but still gave you a reason not to be reckless.

-S.R.

Yes, I like this too. But instead of Experience and Debt, it should be Reputation and Infamy.
As you move through your career you develop a reputation. As you succeed, that reputation grows and you gain rank. But, get killed or heaven forbid, lose a ship, and you become infamous which slows the growth of your reputation.

[Angelphoenix12]

i think a temp self nerf. where if you die your attrubutess go down for 2 min or so. and a rez trama.

[Zyrious]

Here are my idea's for "death":

On the ground - You never actually "die" per say. You can be mortally wounded or incapacitated, and once this happens your ship performs an emergency beam out (or your crew members drad you to the shuttle) and you load into the medical bay of your star-ship. Your character is debuffed, has a temporary max-health penalty as you recover fully from your injuries, and other things such as stamina are also effected.

There's another risk. NPC Crew-members can also be mortally wounded or even killed, in which case you have to go to a starbase in order to purchase a new high-grade NPC replacement. Until then, a random NPC on your ship is field commissioned to take his spot on the bridge until that time, but his buffs and attributes are much lower than your normal NPC bridge crew. Also, if a major NPC officer is mortally wounded, he may end up in sick bay for a short period of time. During that time, a low-grade NPC takes his place on the bridge, again with limited attributes and buffs.

In space, if you *die* what happens actually is that your ship is destroyed and turned into a burning reck and you and your crew automatically eject in escape pods and shuttles. You are automatically *transported* to a nearby starbase, resembling being rescued and your burning hulk of a ship being towed to the starbase. Your ship is repaired, but it isnt as functional as it once was. All of its systems need to be reconfigured again to be as efficient as they were before, so you have a temporary debuff. Your accuracy is lower, your rate of fire is lower, and further more, a good portion of your crew were lost. So your "Enlisted Crew" the non-bridge NPC's are partially replacements and thus need to be leveled up again to the level of your previous ship crew. The buff of this NPC crew is thus lower with weaker attributes.

Also during engagement you always run the risk of one of your NPC bridge crew being mortally wounded or killed if the bridge takes major damage. In which case, as with the ground scenario, another low-grade NPC is field-commissioned to take his place until your can purchase a replacement with "prestige".

[Wolf503]

I was thinking about this. Maybe an ingame mechanic could work where if your ship is destroyed, it's hulk respawns at the nearest starbase. And then part of your job could be to refit her and replace any crew that didn't get out in time.

Something like this would raise the perceived value of not just any crew loss, but also place perceived value on the ship itself.

Just a thought...

I think this is the best idea i have seen.

[Kinjiru]

I think this is the best idea i have seen.

Thank you. :)

[jhem99]

Looks like we couldl have a Doctor Who type scenario where you regenerate with different looks, eh?:)

[SakeGami]

Here are my thoughts

1. Death in space:

a. Option A: Your ship is respawned at the nearest starbase, and you have to complete a series of tasks to get it fixed. You know, to fix this, you must go find that, and to find that you have to talk to this guy, and to talk to this guy, you have to help this other guy out, etc. etc. Taking you all over the damn starbase. Make it kind of a pain in the a ss, and different each time you die, so as not to let people memorize the tasks and what to do.

or (and you get to choose in the game)

b. Option B: Your ship is respawned at the nearest starbase, and you can wait for 24 hours for Starfleet personnel to fix your ship for you. Meanwhile you have to meet with some Admiral who is just waiting to scold you on your carelessness, as he takes half of the XP and items you earned while on your mission or quest. If you were not on one, then he takes nothing, however Q interrupts everything and screws with you, your crew, and your ship for the next 24 hours.

2. For deaths that occur on a planet, yes, beamed or brought back to your ship and your sick bay, with a loss of some abilities for a temporary time. It can be a little fun too, like the idea of your Second Officer not letting you back on the bridge until you have changed your battle torn uniform or something silly like that. Hey, gotta look sharp in that Captains uniform. ;) Or if the doc is on the mission with you, then he could heal you on the planet, but you have to go find a safe area to rest for the next ____ amount of time.

I would hope that would make death a very cautious aspect of the game.