X / Y / Z movements in space...

[DrkBlueXG]

I wonder if we will be able to move in complete and total freedom in space.

For example,

Say you were flying along in space then suddenly met up with another ship that was sideways or upside down to you.
Since there is no up or down in space, their position would be totally normal to them but you would be the one in a sideways or upside down angle.

That was one thing that always made me wonder in the series because when they met a ship, it was always rightside up to them, which in reality, wouldn't always be the case.

[Sorenzy]

interesting question, it really need to be addressed too because most old interplay based star trek games (ex starfleet command) you can only really move about on the X-Y axis, however in bridge commander (which is probably my favorite so far) you can manually move the ship on all three axis, which makes for some interesting combat if you ever decide to have small fleets face off against eachother in the quickbattle mode.

Watching vorcha's collide into eachother during erratic loops is alays amusing.

Hopefully they will give us a level of ship control similar to Bridge Commander.

[Zyrious]

That's actually a very good question. Are we going to be playing something along the lines of Bridge Commander(Up down left or right), or Star Fleet Command(Left or Right, 2d field), in terms of movement?

[jayce]

I wonder if we will be able to move in complete and total freedom in space.

For example,

Say you were flying along in space then suddenly met up with another ship that was sideways or upside down to you.
Since there is no up or down in space, their position would be totally normal to them but you would be the one in a sideways or upside down angle.

That was one thing that always made me wonder in the series because when they met a ship, it was always rightside up to them, which in reality, wouldn't always be the case.

don't confuse technology, or the lack thereof, with reality. its really simple. in the series, they had to fit everything within a format for TV viewing with probably the best equipment available at the time. Look how long it took for them to even show some resemblence to space demensions in Nemsis with a "full axis rotation to port." and even then, it still had to fit in a viewable screen (think of a first/third person view without being able to turn your head/character). luckly, we are past that point when it comes to gaming and, yes of course, bridge commander was a perfect example of a space enviorment.

[DrkBlueXG]

don't confuse technology, or the lack thereof, with reality.

I wasn't trying to mix the two together. I was just stating that even though the ships were only able to do left or right turns, that wouldn't be the case if this was supposed to be a trek through all galaxies as some planets would be unreachable if left or right turns were only available to use.

I agree that technology couldn't allow that in the earlier shows but seeing as how in a computer game it can be done, I was just posing the question if they should or going to do that for STO.

[Captain_K.C.]

I agree that technology couldn't allow that in the earlier shows but seeing as how in a computer game it can be done, I was just posing the question if they should or are going to do that for STO.

I am sure that STO, when it's finally released (hopefully within 13 months or so), will have that ability. If one knows even a bit about astronomy, galaxies are either spiral or elliptical. Moving on just the X and Y axis won't do in an elliptical because it's a ball of stars. Then there are abnormal stuff like merging and irregular galaxies and asteroid fields and black holes and dark matter and ...ooh boy.

Come to think of it, I *really* hope STO will have sorta scientifically accurate star data. Galaxies at right angles to each other, an expanding universe, maybe fluidic space and alternate dimensions! Hehe

[KL0k]

i think what fits best is, complete freedom on x and y axis, but limited on z to a chosen amount. this way theres no "im just hiding above and watch them, and then hunt them down when they dont look around" scenarios..

think about star trek armada 2 for a better example.

[Falin]

the galaxy is realitively flat in nature (100 ly tall), this makes it ideal for standard X-Y movement with a limited Z axis ability.

most space games just use the X-Y movement system, as the Z axis is realitively small. however, limited Z axis movcment could be a possivbility, depending on how they set up regular movement speeds. I have proposed several times in several threads ways to do this, the most prevelant on is is my galaxy setup post HERE (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=4706).

[Stormnet]

That's a great question.

I guess it would be like Eve (I hate to keep making that comparison). Everyone is upright. I think it would be downright wierd to see a ship flying by sideways or upside down. I realize that it's realistic but probobly not for a game if that makes any sense at all...

[OrabIbo]

the only thing that I could see that would be a challenge to the user is navagating large spaces of 3D space. It would require a 3D map. Or a Cross section map that showed the a Isometric, and side view of the area we were look at to get our bearings.

Even then on the show, the maps were always done in 2D. It is just easier for us to comprehend quickly at a glance and move on. 3D maps tend to confuse ppl. After all, it is a 3D representation being displayed on a 2D surface. There isn't any real depth to it. This is why looking at 3D screens are difficult for some to grasp on a monitor. because the perspective does not change when you move your head.

But semantics aside, :) I see them letting have control of 3D space in a limited fashion. The world will be fashioned mostly in 2D. but there there will be some 3D depth to it. Think of it as a shallow pool. You can only go as deep as the bottom and the surface. It allows plenty room for 3D space combat, but it's not full 3D freedom.

[11710]

That's a great question.

I guess it would be like Eve (I hate to keep making that comparison). Everyone is upright. I think it would be downright wierd to see a ship flying by sideways or upside down. I realize that it's realistic but probobly not for a game if that makes any sense at all...

It would work, keeping the ships upright.

[KL0k]

im wondering how the controls are set ingame at all. will we use the mouse and click a spot and the ship moves on its own? will it be like in sfc where you set the speed and then use some arrows on screen to adjust the curse? or like in legacy where you totally control your ship with a mix of mouse n keyboard?
cause i think, half of the possible movement options will lead to strange actions ingame then, like stuttering curves or nosedown sliding on the z-axis-border or flying backwards shooting at you and all that weird things that can happen in online games.
so i really hope the movement is kind of "automaticly" handled, like clicking something and the comp does the rest o_0

[sniperct]

I'm thinking unlimited x/y (within the size of the zone of course). Limited Z axis of a few thousand km (though a 'sphere' for the zone would be awesome).

Since ships are anywhere from 100m to 1000m in length, zones are going to have to be huge in terms of measurement. (km instead of m like in most games).

So X and Y axis in a space zone would have to be 100k or more just to not feel cramped, z axis would have to be on the order of 10k+

It would make space a bit of an oval basically.

[Zyrious]

It would work, keeping the ships upright.

Ships in Bridge commander had complete freedom of movement, and it never seemed weird at all.

[Linton]

Ships in Bridge commander had complete freedom of movement, and it never seemed weird at all.

I never played it. Are you saying you could fly 'inverted' in comparison to another ship? That would be pretty fun.

[Zyrious]

I never played it. Are you saying you could fly 'inverted' in comparison to another ship? That would be pretty fun.

Yeah, and it was easy. As a matter of fact, if you wanted your ship to be perfectly aligned so it looked normal, all you had to do was roll your ship. Q or E would roll your ship left or right respectively, so it was really easy to handle.

[Linton]

Yeah, and it was easy. As a matter of fact, if you wanted your ship to be perfectly aligned so it looked normal, all you had to do was roll your ship. Q or E would roll your ship left or right respectively, so it was really easy to handle.

Now I'll be pretty disappointed if STO doesn't feature that. I've also always been a little irked that everyone in the entire galaxy was on the same 2D plane.

[Warloque]

ive played a few complete xyz unlocked movement games unfortuanntely even was last i checked a point and click game but i would thoroughly enjoy manual controle for my ship well atleast pitch yaw and roll

[Spaceball06]

I've actually had the same question of whether or not they would include full x,y,z manipulation. By looking at the trailer, it would appear that you do have full x,y,z control. Whether or not you will be able to completely rotate your ship so that you're precieved by another ship as up side down is unknow, but I dont see any reason why not. It also wouldnt be difficult for them to make one key reorient your ship to a default plane setting if you wanted to return to the default setting.. And as far as navigation is concerned I'm sure they can figure some way out to make 3D nav easy for people to figure out. I mean it is supposed to be the 25th centery after all.

[Kirky]

Full x/y/z movement seems the best path to me, after playing bridge commander not being able to go up, down, or roll the ship just seems too restricted. Besides it has great tactical combat applications, such as rolling your ship to bring the upper phaser arrays to bear, or maneuvering to bring your highest charged shield grid to face the enemy

[naynayz]

Ummm I don't want to understate this but Bridge Commander was THE BEST STAR TREK GAME EVAH!!!! If you have not played it and are a ST fan at ALL. You HAVE to play Bridge Commander, you just have to.. I still play it and it was released AGES ago by video game standards so you should be safe to play it on most systems. It is really how I hope STO will be but who knows. All I know is in the combat I see actual 3d combat manuvers so I have hope. I also love that there are fighter craft too! OMG I want the control of bridge commander plus one more capability. I want to be able to perform the evasive pattern Riker alpha that is in best of both worlds part 2. basically a straffe to the side.

[Kirky]

Ummm I don't want to understate this but Bridge Commander was THE BEST STAR TREK GAME EVAH!!!! If you have not played it and are a ST fan at ALL. You HAVE to play Bridge Commander, you just have to.. I still play it and it was released AGES ago by video game standards so you should be safe to play it on most systems. It is really how I hope STO will be but who knows. All I know is in the combat I see actual 3d combat manuvers so I have hope. I also love that there are fighter craft too! OMG I want the control of bridge commander plus one more capability. I want to be able to perform the evasive pattern Riker alpha that is in best of both worlds part 2. basically a straffe to the side.

Continuing on what this guy is saying, bridge commander is, in my opinion the best star trek game out there, until sto anyway. Even though it was released back in 2002 the mods available can bring the graphics up to modern standards. If you do get bc I recommend kobyashi maru 1.0 to start with, you can find it, along with many other great mods on http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/. Anyway the main point of my post is to say that to make a 3d combat system work, a camera system similar to bc's, where you can lock on to your targetted starship while still keeping your ship in view. That was long, I think I need to take my medication

[Zyrious]

Continuing on what this guy is saying, bridge commander is, in my opinion the best star trek game out there, until sto anyway. Even though it was released back in 2002 the mods available can bring the graphics up to modern standards. If you do get bc I recommend kobyashi maru 1.0 to start with, you can find it, along with many other great mods on http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/. Anyway the main point of my post is to say that to make a 3d combat system work, a camera system similar to bc's, where you can lock on to your targetted starship while still keeping your ship in view. That was long, I think I need to take my medication

Actually, i recommend BC Supermod 3.0. It upgrades ALL of the graphics, textures AND models, but it is 100% compatible with single player.

[sniperct]

I remember absolutely loving the BC demo, but never got around to buying it. :D

[Kirky]

Actually, i recommend BC Supermod 3.0. It upgrades ALL of the graphics, textures AND models, but it is 100% compatible with single player.

Thanks for recommending it, i'll make a seperate install and give it a try