Breach of the Prime Directive? First contact/Maquis

[Luminora]

Can anyone point me towards any topics or provide any information on consequences (if any are implemented yet that is) of breaching the Prime Directive - such as really screwing up first contact or perhaps defecting to a cause such as the Maquis (I"m not suggesting the Maquis will still be around at that stage it's just an example)? Is it known whether you are able to defect, to hijack your Starfleet vessel and use it for other purposes outside the goals of Starfleet (whether noble or not)? Can you form your own rebellion or possibly join one and therefore violate the Prime Directive?

[hinaito]

That would most definitely bring a sense of freedom and fun to the game. The ability to defect from the Federation or from the Klingon Empire or any other Factions in expansions to come. I'm not sure how they would do it, but it would be cool if you could. I for one would have at least one Maquis/Rebel Captain if multiple characters are going to be available.

[Endariok]

Umm...'The Wounded' i think, TNG 4th season. Cpt. Maxwell, O'Brien's former CO, goes rouge with his Nebula and causes some grief for the Cardassians. Excellent Episode.

[Blackfire2]

There is a DS9 episode where a ships captain suspected the Cardassians of shipping weapons to border worlds near the federation in what he felt was a build up prelude to invasion. He used his ship to go after the merchant ships he thought were doing so and outright destroyed them. I cant remember the name of the episode, but it was very good.

[starbuck1771]

Prime Directive ? What Prime Directive? We don't need no stinkin Prime Directive.

Anyways the prime directive means nothing to a serious captain. All of the captains have violated it time and again.

[Endariok]

There is a DS9 episode where a ships captain suspected the Cardassians of shipping weapons to border worlds near the federation in what he felt was a build up prelude to invasion. He used his ship to go after the merchant ships he thought were doing so and outright destroyed them. I cant remember the name of the episode, but it was very good.

TNG Episode, see above.

[Kinjiru]

Umm...'The Wounded' i think, TNG 4th season. Cpt. Maxwell, O'Brien's former CO, goes rouge with his Nebula and causes some grief for the Cardassians. Excellent Episode.

There is also the case of Admiral Cartwright in ST VI:The Undiscovered Country. In his case, a ship didn't go rogue, but he did, using his influence as an Admiral to attempt to prevent Gorkon from successfully brokering a peace accord with the Federation.

I could see a moral dilemma of that scope being involved in a mission or series of missions, but I can't actually see switching sides as a common or desirous gameplay mechanic.

[EmperorNortonII]

It certainly means nothing to Klingons! Death to the weak!

[No1UKnow]

Prime Directive ? What Prime Directive? We don't need no stinkin Prime Directive.

Anyways the prime directive means nothing to a serious captain. All of the captains have violated it time and again.

A great example as to how, when put in the wrong hands, this game could become less Star Trek and more Griefer Trek. :p

[Endariok]

There is also the case of Admiral Cartwright in ST VI:The Undiscovered Country. In his case, a ship didn't go rogue, but he did, using his influence as an Admiral to attempt to prevent Gorkon from successfully brokering a peace accord with the Federation.

I could see a moral dilemma of that scope being involved in a mission or series of missions, but I can't actually see switching sides as a common or desirous gameplay mechanic.

Like 'save the pre warp race from plentary disaster and violate the PD' or more like DS9 'In the Pale Moonlight'?

[Wolvar]

haha true we are dealing with several rogue elements here... all the more to spice it up.

[Kinjiru]

Like 'save the pre warp race from plentary disaster and violate the PD' or more like DS9 'In the Pale Moonlight'?

More like the save the pre warp civilization. Or, here is another idea:

While observing a pre warp civilization about to discover warp drive, we ready for first contact, when it's discovered that the Klingons have been feeding them ideas and "helping" them to develop their technology secretly, so as to influence what they decide to do after first contact is made.

Do we break cover and expose the Klingons? Do we try to circumvent their activities covertly? Do we just roll with it, hoping that the natives will see the Klingons for what they really are?

Tons of options in just that one instance. :)

[ibby1kanobi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_directive#Implications

Pretty good wikipedia article on the Prime Directive. There's not a set, concrete repercussion for breaking the PD, its up the the lead Admiral of the fleet. It could technically range from a severe speech to demotion. However, the P.D. has been broken a few times by Kirk/Picard and nothing ever really happened. It all came down to influence and prestige; who would dare demote Picard/Kirk?

[Kinjiru]

It all came down to influence and prestige; who would dare demote Kirk?

The President of the Federation, right after The Voyage Home.


But it was for his own good. :D

[starbuck1771]

A great example as to how, when put in the wrong hands, this game could become less Star Trek and more Griefer Trek. :p

Scared are we? :p

[eNDIE]

A great example as to how, when put in the wrong hands, this game could become less Star Trek and more Griefer Trek. :p

Hehe cant grief NPCs though, because i doubt players will be protected by the prime directive:)

[Endariok]

More like the save the pre warp civilization. Or, here is another idea:

While observing a pre warp civilization about to discover warp drive, we ready for first contact, when it's discovered that the Klingons have been feeding them ideas and "helping" them to develop their technology secretly, so as to influence what they decide to do after first contact is made.

Do we break cover and expose the Klingons? Do we try to circumvent their activities covertly? Do we just roll with it, hoping that the natives will see the Klingons for what they really are?

Tons of options in just that one instance. :)

Oh the yearning to play that scenario. NOW. Not a year from now. Right now, instead of typing.

Anywho, my interpretation of the Prime Directive says that in this case the Prime Directive doesn't apply. The civilization has already been maninpulated by a far more advanced race and it is my duty as a StarFleet officer to...educate that civilization's choices as much as possible.

[Kinjiru]

Oh the yearning to play that scenario. NOW. Not a year from now. Right now, instead of typing.

Anywho, my interpretation of the Prime Directive says that in this case the Prime Directive doesn't apply. The civilization has already been maninpulated by a far more advanced race and it is my duty as a StarFleet officer to...educate that civilization's choices as much as possible.

Exactly. Do we try to repair the damage, do we openly confront the Klingons, whether diplomatically or with martial conflict? Or by doing what you suggested above, are we starting a "Cold War Era-esque" type of client-state surrogate warfare?

But you get my point... all of these options could be possible. And for the record, I want to play out the scenario now too, lol. :)

[TethysGrenz]

YOU GUYS NEED TO POST IN THIS THREAD TOO< SO CRYPTIC HEARS THIS CONCERN!

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=909864#post909864

My thoughts are...
In episodic missions there need to be multiple ways to win outcomes depending on choicesfor example, even if we crawl thru a radiation duct/vent to aviod getting shot at, we then get grime on our shoulders or head with some green goo on our pants and hands!
Of course, with exposure to toxic susbstances & we add some mild radiation effect for the rest of the mission. OK. Still a better choice for some Teams than walking into the Tricorder-Detected ambush we saw, unless for you blasting away is safer to getting your suit dirty and some ill effects...

Maybe one type team loses a crew mwember to phaser-fire, but if you went the other way, another dies from exposure, all depending on skills and strenghts of the team members. Just make sure it us, the players, who choos which way we go thru the maze of options...!

and make sure it IS a MAZE OF OPTIONS for a good, bad or best outcome..

Think of many plots on TV and Movies where it could go either way, and what if in game it does?
EXAMPLES:
What if in a choice like "Insurrection"
You DO agree with Admiral's X orders and forcebly remove people from a world, going against Fed Prime Directive?
Do you even Know what the Prime Directive is?
So, you justify it by "following orders". Then, mission fishes easily and you get some points.
Move right along...
Then at next visit to starfleet HQ or any Star Base, you get called in by a higher Admiral that tells you you made wrong choice and now you lose points, or rank or face court matrtial, etc.
OUCH! Now you learned!
BUT, if at the start, you defied the Admiral X who said to remove people, it was a compleatly different outcome, you got hounded by other Fed ships, had to choose between fight or run, if you fight you lose ship in battle, maybe a crew member too, wake up in sick bay and have another Admiral Y fill you on on how you and your crew are heros for standing up to Admiral X.
Or if you choose to run, you can alert Starfleet and stop removal of people, maybe lead a small fleet against Admiral X, just to disable them, etc. get a bigger reward and maybe a better class of ship, higher rank, etc!

I mean, life is ALL about hard choices and what is harder than the choices a Starfleet Commander faces any given day??? Isn't that what makes all theese great captains shine thru the eras?
We cant all make the same one right chioce, since that would be very lame.

Also,We need Phycological effects on our players can accumulate and +/- stats. Make the choices matter.What if in TNG "Chain of Command" Episode, What happens when you remain defiant? Do you get bonus skills, stats, does you crew respect you more? Are you a hero to the Federation, maybe an interview?
Or if the Cardassian Commander who is tourturing Picard had "broke" him and he HAD said there were five lights, instead of four!
Would he lose points even if he was rescused at end of mission?
Would it take a while for his stats to raise again?
Would he have a scene in sick bay, being counseled!
Would it affect his relationships with his crew? Would they lose faith, ask for a transfer or leave team?

Could we see that the character you develop start to second guess himself?
Make bad choices or have less options, see options dissapear/greyed out?
Make you really FEEL for the person!
It's the life the actors brethed into the parts like Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Kira, Dax, Worf, Data, Paris, Torres, etc that makes us
LOVE Trek.
We need our characters to have the similar real life breath as well.

[Admiral_Ares]

More like the save the pre warp civilization. Or, here is another idea:

While observing a pre warp civilization about to discover warp drive, we ready for first contact, when it's discovered that the Klingons have been feeding them ideas and "helping" them to develop their technology secretly, so as to influence what they decide to do after first contact is made.

Do we break cover and expose the Klingons? Do we try to circumvent their activities covertly? Do we just roll with it, hoping that the natives will see the Klingons for what they really are?

Tons of options in just that one instance. :)

Sound like good mission ideas to me. I can't help but think the science tree has missions were the goal is not to violate the PD.

[Admiral_Ares]

Oh the yearning to play that scenario. NOW. Not a year from now. Right now, instead of typing.

Anywho, my interpretation of the Prime Directive says that in this case the Prime Directive doesn't apply. The civilization has already been maninpulated by a far more advanced race and it is my duty as a StarFleet officer to...educate that civilization's choices as much as possible.

Blow the Klingons out of space (war and all) then fix the planet.

[TethysGrenz]

Blow the Klingons out of space (war and all) then fix the planet.

That should be only one of 6 or 160 ways to end it!

VARIETY!

:rolleyes: