STO player roles in goverment ?

[KXSwa]

What roles will STO players have in factional government leadership?

I think players should have a semi-limited role in, for example, Starfleet Command. Same thing with the Klingon High Command.

NPCs will of course be dishing out missions left & right, some of which will be covert, etc.

However, players with enough rank & experience, imo, should also be able to get voted into a command position w/in Starfleet Command, who would then be able to hand out missions for a specific purpose.

Those missions would also give out some prestige to whomever carries them out. A mission for example, might be to observe fleet movements of an enemy faction in a specific system, or to conduct long range scans of a remote system the Federation wishes to get info on.

Same thing for the Klingon High Command, but you might have to fight melee combat to get into one of those positions.

Obviously, the role of player command positions would be limited, and by no means would they replace the role of NPC's in command; however, in a similar concept to player crews, this would allow players to have a more active role in leadership of it's faction, not just fleet.

One of the main purposes of having players in certain command positions of the faction, would be to help guide and direct operations of interest to various fleets working for the improvement of their faction.

I think this concept is especially important if conflict zones may very, as in: Federation outpost/station destroyed in 'X' system, and the Klingons take control of system; etc.

I also think this concept would be especially important as more factions are introduced over time. The high command would be asserting it's wishes in regards to peace & trade treaty's, among other things. I mean, do will really want NPCs making all the important decisions in terms of faction relations? I don't.

And what about assignments, like Ambassador. It wouldn't make sense, imo, to have an NPC Ambassador; or an NPC as chief of security for their faction's home world?

The AI can help with convert ops, intelligence, planning, resource management, etc. But you really need some human brains to help make decisions.

I mean, could a robot replace President Bush? huh, ok, bad example... Could a robot replace the Dalai Lama? No. Or John F. Kenndy, no!

Comments, suggestions & ideas?

[KidBang]

Sounds a bit like Eve Online. Not saying that's a good or bad thing.

[JemarqueMarquis]

Im not sure how much govermental role they will allow players to have at release. They havn't said anything about it from what i read and reviewed.

[vp21ct]

Based on previous works real people will have leader ship, but they will be the devs

[stang]

But what happens if this person decides to take a vacation in RL, or quit the game? What would happen then? Or what if the persons play time changes from 4-6 hours a day to 45 minutes... that wouldn't be really fair.

[ParkerHayden]

I'm thinking that the only governmental-related job you'll have is ambassador.

[Jaqknife]

This might be a good thing if handled well. I just don't want to see a system like what WWII Online has in it where HC makes some stupid decisions and the regular players have little impact over how things are changed by HC.

[Jezebel1669]

I'd like to see Starbase command positions coming along too, rather than just starships. It'd be nice to try and step into Sisko's shoes for a change.

[r2data]

I suspect that this kind of post in the game will have the same result as the promotion of Kirk to Admiral. See the parallels? Bold Starfleet captain gets advanced to paper-pushing desk jockey.

[KXSwa]

But what happens if this person decides to take a vacation in RL, or quit the game? What would happen then? Or what if the persons play time changes from 4-6 hours a day to 45 minutes... that wouldn't be really fair.

Any system requires design & planning; which is the point of this thread, to discuss what such a system would be like in STO; if any.

imo, like in real life, when the CEO at AMD quits, someone else has to be assigned.

So, what do you think should happen in that case?

As for the DEVs having such leadership roles, I'd be against that idea overall.

Should the DEVs really be in command of factions, which are, in effect, in command of the faction's fleets?

Should they really have command over every player's gameplay? They are already God essentially, in terms of the game world, mechanics & design.

That would be like having the real life God, if you will, being the president of the United States, and in command of that faction.

Having the DEVs in command so to speak, would introduce a conflict of interest for the players, and introduce possible bias. etc. imo

[shadow_wraith26]

Might be cool, logistical; support might be important as the game expands

Sisko was mentioned well look at when he lost the station and Ross moved him to that other starbase to control fleet ops; the federation (and the klingons) needs people who can make the big decisions.

But make it so every month or so new leaders are “elected” or “reelected” depending on how good things are going, give everyone at least the potential to be a leader.

[Jezebel1669]

...give everyone at least the potential to be a leader.The way I'd see it anyone who's achieved a high enough rank could go for a starbase command position. Depending on which starbase and how many people would be dependent on them would decide how high their rank would have to be. You wouldn't want an ensign in charge of the Earth starbase defenses, but they might be able to take command of an outpost station to get a little experience first.

Speaking of experience I'd see a starbase position generating a constant but low level of experience for being in the position, again depending on how important the base was. Along with that you'd have random events occurring which would give you the opportunity to gain extra experience.

[vp21ct]

The way I'd see it anyone who's achieved a high enough rank could go for a starbase command position. Depending on which starbase and how many people would be dependent on them would decide how high their rank would have to be. You wouldn't want an ensign in charge of the Earth starbase defenses, but they might be able to take command of an outpost station to get a little experience first.

Speaking of experience I'd see a starbase position generating a constant but low level of experience for being in the position, again depending on how important the base was. Along with that you'd have random events occurring which would give you the opportunity to gain extra experience.

the starbase idea is good, another thing would be to let them command a ship that would be its "regular Garison" like the defiant in DS9, that would allow for some abillity to travel without detracting from its importance.

[Jezebel1669]

On another thread someone was talking about emergency distress signals for when you're under heavy attack. Having someone with a reasonably powerful ship based at a nearby starbase who could come to your rescue would certainly be useful.

[marscentral]

I'm sure in one of the interviews, Jack talked about player generated missions (though maybe not at launch). I think there would have to be some provisos like making sure the rewards are appropriate to the task as well as having someway of completing the mission if the creator goes of line.

[vp21ct]

On another thread someone was talking about emergency distress signals for when you're under heavy attack. Having someone with a reasonably powerful ship based at a nearby starbase who could come to your rescue would certainly be useful.

I could totally see some Neg'Vagh ganking a hapless spatula, when all of a sudden a Galaxy, Intrepid, and Akira come out of warp and save the poor noobs ass :D

[vp21ct]

I'm sure in one of the interviews, Jack talked about player generated missions (though maybe not at launch). I think there would have to be some provisos like making sure the rewards are appropriate to the task as well as having someway of completing the mission if the creator goes of line.

I would bet that the rewards for these would be provided by the Character making them.

[KXSwa]

The way I'd see it anyone who's achieved a high enough rank could go for a starbase command position. Depending on which starbase and how many people would be dependent on them would decide how high their rank would have to be. You wouldn't want an ensign in charge of the Earth starbase defenses, but they might be able to take command of an outpost station to get a little experience first.

That's an awesome idea!

Which would also allow players to work their way up through the command ranks.

But, lets say for example, the command of the Deep Space 9 station...

Would voting really work?

And, would a player being assigned by another player in Starfleet command work?

[shadow_wraith26]

the starbase idea is good, another thing would be to let them command a ship that would be its "regular Garison" like the defiant in DS9, that would allow for some abillity to travel without detracting from its importance.

only thing is I'd hate for starbase commanders who are off acting like starship commanders ALL the time. There should be some mandatory requirement for regular gametime given to leadership...so if you want the job and you play STO regularly. Go for it.

What about things like Chancellor and President? I'd love to have a view like the Obsidian order had in the that one DS9 episode able to at least "highly suggest" game changing policies, but there would definitely need to be elections and term limitations to consider

[Jezebel1669]

I could totally see some Neg'Vagh ganking a hapless spatula, when all of a sudden a Galaxy, Intrepid, and Akira come out of warp and save the poor noobs ass :DIt'd certainly help stop those *******s hanging around to score a few easy kills if they knew any moment an entire task force would be warping in.

[shadow_wraith26]

And, would a player being assigned by another player in Starfleet command work?

Sure, it happened all the time in the series
"There’s a situation on the neutral zone developing, I have a hunch things could get out of hand go there and take a look around. We need Jim Kirk"

Prestige points (I guess translating to extra experience) for following orders and issuing them (doing your job) and high command would naturally have greater perspective on overall situations

[Jezebel1669]

You'd also end up with cliques in the command chain as well, where players would favour their friends for prestigious tasks and sen their enemies to the suicidal ones. Adds a whole new layer to the game.

[vp21ct]

You'd also end up with cliques in the command chain as well, where players would favour their friends for prestigious tasks and sen their enemies to the suicidal ones. Adds a whole new layer to the game.

now that you mention that i think that the devs should be incharge of main factions, but fleets should be handled more like you have said. and too that end admin should use each fleet to help regulate the game, as per my example.

[Terrani]

I personally wouldn't mind giving up my ship command status to command a starbase and give tactical orders for my region. Or just be in a position to give my allies a friendly heads up, like telling them that long range sensors detected an enemy vessel in their sector. Just fun stuff like that.

[Jezebel1669]

Or just be in a position to give my allies a friendly heads up, like telling them that long range sensors detected an enemy vessel in their sector. Just fun stuff like that."Are you still mad at me for stealing all the glory in that last battle?"

"Of course not, now go to that system over there."

"Is it safe?"

"Perfectly safe." *slides PADD with details of invading Klingon fleet under her desk*

[Terrani]

I can see that happening lol. You'd make a "perfect" regional commander ;)

[shadow_wraith26]

ok...what about rewards for good leadership? and penalties for failure

losing ships in your sphere of influence -10 points
losing the system -50 points
losing Earth -1,000,000 points

(just a rough example)


If things run smoothly you get extra experience and other benefits, if one of your captain is just incompetent well...if a crewman looks bad, Kirk still is responsible

It does give you a reason to want your side to do good, as captains I’m not saying you’ll get the best missions all the time but you won’t be sent to the nearest Borg unicomplex either. Who know with enough randomly generated missions you may still find yourself with some great opportunities

Logistical drains may also be a reason to send everyone on good missions, as ships sit on standby or free exploration they may drain overall resources but completed missions replenish this. So you’d want to keep your sector moving or they fall into decay costing you some sort of penalty and eventually your command.

command=RTS with live units

[vp21ct]

ok...what about rewards for good leadership? and penalties for failure

losing ships in your sphere of influence -10 points
losing the system -50 points
losing Earth -1,000,000 points

(just a rough example)


If things run smoothly you get extra experience and other benefits, if one of your captain is just incompetent well...if a crewman looks bad, Kirk still is responsible

Thats a good idea

[shadow_wraith26]

ok...what about rewards for good leadership? and penalties for failure

losing ships in your sphere of influence -10 points
losing the system -50 points
losing Earth -1,000,000 points

(just a rough example)


If things run smoothly you get extra experience and other benefits, if one of your captain is just incompetent well...if a crewman looks bad, Kirk still is responsible

It does give you a reason to want your side to do good, as captains I’m not saying you’ll get the best missions all the time but you won’t be sent to the nearest Borg unicomplex either. Who know with enough randomly generated missions you may still find yourself with some great opportunities

Logistical drains may also be a reason to send everyone on good missions, as ships sit on standby or free exploration they may drain overall resources but completed missions replenish this. So you’d want to keep your sector moving or they fall into decay costing you some sort of penalty and eventually your command.

command=RTS with live units

sorry about the nearly complete edit but its much more thought out now

[Jezebel1669]

Not sure about charging people too heavily for failure. You'd end up with no one wanting to take on the role since they'd lose all their hard earnt points.

[Terrani]

Well if people are discouraged from taking the positions I could slowly take over the faction from the inside out. Eventually I'd have enough power to crown myself supreme overlord! Suicide missions for all!

...Fun aside I would recommend that the consequences of failure not be too steep, and for fairness sake the captain of the ship that failed should get most of the demerits. It is their fault they screwed up right? Like they say in warfare, The forward command unit is always right and the rear echelon is always wrong.

[PraetorianHistorian]

All types of leadership have their problems. Elections bring in the people with the most guild members and friends (like Face of Mankind). Devs being the leaders often lead to accusations of corruption and favoritism (like EVE). Leadership earned by rank gets a mix of idiots and intelligent people but the idiots often drown out the smart ones and it causes good players to leave (like Planetside).

Personally, I think the Developers should choose players for the roles who have (A) attained high rank status relatively quickly, (B) show activity, (C) are willing to take on such a position, (D) have shown themselves capable of having mature conversations without resorting to insults, and (E) have that Trekkie spirit.

This would definitely curve a lot of the problems we see with the methods I mentioned previously but would still have to put up with the idea of favoritism. There will always be favorites but I have never seen Cryptic at work so I am hoping they are better than the Devs at some of the *other* companies. (I won't mention specific ones but there was a certain space MMORPG that had Devs playing the favorites game.)

[Jezebel1669]

Maybe if the missions were rated for difficulty you could rebalance the demerits if a captain is given a mission which is too difficult for them to achieve with their current ship. For instance if a captain fails to take down a B'rel class Bird of Prey with a Sovereign then they'd get heavily penalised while their CO would only get a minor demerit, on the other hand failing to take out a Sovereign with a B'rel would give the captain a minor demerit and the CO a huge one.

This would definitely curve a lot of the problems we see with the methods I mentioned previously but would still have to put up with the idea of favoritism.Some people will always complain about favouritism, usually the ones who can't play well enough to be considered for the positions anyway but who believe they have a right to it.

[Terrani]

I have to say I like the sound of that system. This thread really makes me want to work regional control for my fleets HQ. A pipe dream? Maybe, but I've always wanted to command. Now commanding a ship is big, but commanding a small area of space? That's huge, and destined to be very challenging.

[vp21ct]

All types of leadership have their problems. Elections bring in the people with the most guild members and friends (like Face of Mankind). Devs being the leaders often lead to accusations of corruption and favoritism (like EVE). Leadership earned by rank gets a mix of idiots and intelligent people but the idiots often drown out the smart ones and it causes good players to leave (like Planetside).

Personally, I think the Developers should choose players for the roles who have (A) attained high rank status relatively quickly, (B) show activity, (C) are willing to take on such a position, (D) have shown themselves capable of having mature conversations without resorting to insults, and (E) have that Trekkie spirit.

This would definitely curve a lot of the problems we see with the methods I mentioned previously but would still have to put up with the idea of favoritism. There will always be favorites but I have never seen Cryptic at work so I am hoping they are better than the Devs at some of the *other* companies. (I won't mention specific ones but there was a certain space MMORPG that had Devs playing the favorites game.)

that system would probably work, tho like you said it would depend on devs, but only for the first month or two, then it would all be the players that get assigned. I infact could see Starbase Administrators becoming a little like admin, they take care of the players. I still hold vehemetly to the example i posted before, i think that this would be a very trek experience and would be a great way to let characters interact with other characters, the ONLY draw back is that you could end up with HUGE battles started over a single gank.

Maybe if the missions were rated for difficulty you could rebalance the demerits if a captain is given a mission which is too difficult for them to achieve with their current ship. For instance if a captain fails to take down a B'rel class Bird of Prey with a Sovereign then they'd get heavily penalised while their CO would only get a minor demerit, on the other hand failing to take out a Sovereign with a B'rel would give the captain a minor demerit and the CO a huge one.

A wonderful point there, tho im not sure if computers would be able to handle that sort of relating.

[JFendley]

I only read through the first page of posts.

I think the place where players would be mostly needed to command other players is in large fleet engagements especially PvP related. But guilds or fleets will work that out. Perhaps a guildmaster or a Fleet Commander/Admiral (or whatever rank) could be assigned to a Starbase and could oversee his fleet's actions and if his fleet is large enough he could have a vote in StarFleet command.

[Jezebel1669]

A wonderful point there, tho im not sure if computers would be able to handle that sort of relating.Why not? WoW has a system where the opponent you're facing is colour-rated by difficulty, based on the one originally used in Balder's Gate. All you need to do is look at the rank/level of the opponent and the ship they're flying, if they're comparable to the player then you share the dishonour, if the difference is too great one way or the other then the player or CO would be penalised.

I think the place where players would be mostly needed to command other players is in large fleet engagements especially PvP related. But guilds or fleets will work that out. Perhaps a guildmaster or a Fleet Commander/Admiral (or whatever rank) could be assigned to a Starbase and could oversee his fleet's actions and if his fleet is large enough he could have a vote in StarFleet command.In Anarky Online guilds are encouraged to actually set up their own bases, erecting towers and defenses to help fight off enemy attacks. If a fleet could pool thier resources they could actually construct their own starbase, upgrading it as they attracted more members and earnt greater rewards.

[JFendley]

In Anarky Online guilds are encouraged to actually set up their own bases, erecting towers and defenses to help fight off enemy attacks. If a fleet could pool thier resources they could actually construct their own starbase, upgrading it as they attracted more members and earnt greater rewards.

I like it!

[Terrani]

Why not? WoW has a system where the opponent you're facing is colour-rated by difficulty, based on the one originally used in Balder's Gate. All you need to do is look at the rank/level of the opponent and the ship they're flying, if they're comparable to the player then you share the dishonour, if the difference is too great one way or the other then the player or CO would be penalised..

I really like this idea for the base of the point system 16 of 69. No doubt will need refining but keep it like it is for now. As for how to be put in the CO positions. Faction and/or region wide democratic elections among delegates of an appropriate rank who want to try out, or should the Devs just do it all and save us the voting?

[PraetorianHistorian]

that system would probably work, tho like you said it would depend on devs, but only for the first month or two, then it would all be the players that get assigned. I infact could see Starbase Administrators becoming a little like admin, they take care of the players. I still hold vehemetly to the example i posted before, i think that this would be a very trek experience and would be a great way to let characters interact with other characters, the ONLY draw back is that you could end up with HUGE battles started over a single gank.


Could deal with it like I dealed with "ganking" when I was the Tokyo Chief in Face of Mankind, punish whoever it says opened fire first in the combat log! And, if there is no combat log, tell them that there are no witnesses and therefore if they have any problems with one another, they should settle that before they get into another shooting match. I always had cops shooting other cops in that game because a lot of them were kids but the e-drama didn't last very long at all. If I saw someone that was a continuous problem, I simply demoted them and gave them trivial duties or transferred them to some place like Mars.

[Jezebel1669]

Small fleets would only have an outpost station but the big strong ones could have a fully functioning battlestation. It would also promote capturing contested regions in order to expand your own territories.

[Terrani]

the ONLY draw back is that you could end up with HUGE battles started over a single gank.

Isn't that how wars start anyways? lol

[PraetorianHistorian]

Isn't that how wars start anyways? lol

That is how you pick leadership though. Cooler heads should prevail. I'd take diplomacy over war any day. (I'm not much for the Kirk style of diplomacy. More like Picard.)

[Jezebel1669]

I'd take diplomacy over war any day.You won't be playing as a Klingon then? :)

[bitgolem]

Admiral and/or Ambassador might be cool for the STO equivelent of Epic Archetypes.

[Terrani]

I was thinking about playing Klingon because, well, they're Klingon. Enough said. But then I realized that I really wanted a Defiant class lol

[PraetorianHistorian]

You won't be playing as a Klingon then? :)

lol. No...not at all. I hope to get command of a Sovereign class ship and put it to good use by establishing relations with alien races that have achieved warp drive and boldly exploring alien history with my crew.

[Terrani]

Now, elections. I think we're pretty sure that only experienced, hardworking, dedicated, right ranking players should be able to apply. But how big do we go in the way of the actual voting? Should it be regional, like voting in a mayor for smaller outposts. More like the provincial/state elections for top official for a much larger command that included the smaller outposts? And dare I say it, the overall leader for the entire faction, and make it server wide? Just some ideas I wouldn't mind some input on.

[shadow_wraith26]

The Federation should vote, Klingons should have mock PvP tournaments and challenges like Wolf vs. Gowron
“Think you have what it takes to rule the empire well pick up your bat'leth” (or find some great artifact.)

But something needs to be set in place so the chancellor does not have a few thousand players challenging him every day…comments?

[vp21ct]

The Federation should vote, Klingons should have mock PvP tournaments and challenges like Wolf vs. Gowron
“Think you have what it takes to rule the empire well pick up your bat'leth” (or find some great artifact.)

But something needs to be set in place so the chancellor does not have a few thousand players challenging him every day…comments?

I would think that Monthly or Tri-Montlly Elections/Challenges would work, and but i dont think that any players should achieve a rank as high as Chancelor

[Terrani]

Klingon hand-to-hand as a form of election, genius man lol. I suggest limited terms, and I would say a form of impeachment but I would like to see it go though GM or something like that. It would avoid people trying to get rid of the people in office every five seconds.

[Jezebel1669]

But something needs to be set in place so the chancellor does not have a few thousand players challenging him every day…comments?Back to rank I think. When the Klingon civil war was kicking off the House of Duras only took action against Gowron once they'd massed enough influence with the fleets. In this way it'd be like voting for who you'd want to challenge the leader.

[arakkis]

Obviously, the role of player command positions would be limited, and by no means would they replace the role of NPC's in command; however, in a similar concept to player crews, this would allow players to have a more active role in leadership of it's faction, not just fleet.

And like player crews, this is a bad idea. What if someone gets voted in and doesn't like something Cryptic does and starts being an idiot about disagreeing with them? Then Cryptic will have to remove a popularly supported member of the player community, which would lead to bad feelings amongst the playerbase.

[vp21ct]

And like player crews, this is a bad idea. What if someone gets voted in and doesn't like something Cryptic does and starts being an idiot about disagreeing with them? Then Cryptic will have to remove a popularly supported member of the player community, which would lead to bad feelings amongst the playerbase.

i guess the best thing to say is we really dont know, and probably wont until the game hits beta. that said i would like to think that we keep as optimistic a view on all scenarios as possible, while still pointing out bad parts

[Terrani]

And like player crews, this is a bad idea. What if someone gets voted in and doesn't like something Cryptic does and starts being an idiot about disagreeing with them? Then Cryptic will have to remove a popularly supported member of the player community, which would lead to bad feelings amongst the playerbase.

I say deal with it, stuff like that happens in real life politics almost everyday. People are never going to be completely happy, it's a fact of life. We just have to choose someone that we think can do a good job.

[shadow_wraith26]

Back to rank I think. When the Klingon civil war was kicking off the House of Duras only took action against Gowron once they'd massed enough influence with the fleets. In this way it'd be like voting for who you'd want to challenge the leader.

Good point I like that, but in the end it will boil down to 1 on 1 combat, your rank getting you into position for that final strike

Not to say all the ideas head this in the right direction but I hope players will Roleplay all this so it doesn't turn them into Romulan's plotting and scheming to get the jobs.

This game is sounding better and better every post:)

[Captain_Intrepid]

What roles will STO players have in factional government leadership?

I think players should have a semi-limited role in, for example, Starfleet Command. Same thing with the Klingon High Command.

NPCs will of course be dishing out missions left & right, some of which will be covert, etc.

However, players with enough rank & experience, imo, should also be able to get voted into a command position w/in Starfleet Command, who would then be able to hand out missions for a specific purpose.

Those missions would also give out some prestige to whomever carries them out. A mission for example, might be to observe fleet movements of an enemy faction in a specific system, or to conduct long range scans of a remote system the Federation wishes to get info on.

Same thing for the Klingon High Command, but you might have to fight melee combat to get into one of those positions.

Obviously, the role of player command positions would be limited, and by no means would they replace the role of NPC's in command; however, in a similar concept to player crews, this would allow players to have a more active role in leadership of it's faction, not just fleet.

One of the main purposes of having players in certain command positions of the faction, would be to help guide and direct operations of interest to various fleets working for the improvement of their faction.

I think this concept is especially important if conflict zones may very, as in: Federation outpost/station destroyed in 'X' system, and the Klingons take control of system; etc.

I also think this concept would be especially important as more factions are introduced over time. The high command would be asserting it's wishes in regards to peace & trade treaty's, among other things. I mean, do will really want NPCs making all the important decisions in terms of faction relations? I don't.


Comments, suggestions & ideas?

I think player made missions, which was mentioned before, would go in this vein. Where a player could create missions for other players to participate.

[vp21ct]

This game is sounding better and better every post:)

thats what the forum is for :D

[shadow_wraith26]

thanks for bringing us all back to the foundations of the thread

[Jezebel1669]

I think player made missions, which was mentioned before, would go in this vein. Where a player could create missions for other players to participate.A player could create a mission and then pass it to the local CO who, if they accept it, could then assign a task force to prosecute the mission.

[vp21ct]

A player could create a mission and then pass it to the local CO who, if they accept it, could then assign a task force to prosecute the mission.

very tactical

[shadow_wraith26]

A player could create a mission and then pass it to the local CO who, if they accept it, could then assign a task force to prosecute the mission.

good one, like when Sisko or Picard, would draft a plan for an admiral

[Jezebel1669]

If it was a popular mission to play the CO could then pass it up the chain so that everyone could play it. Eventually the best player created content could be intetgrated into the main game by Cryptic.

[vp21ct]

If it was a popular mission to play the CO could then pass it up the chain so that everyone could play it. Eventually the best player created content could be intetgrated into the main game by Cryptic.

That is and awesom idea, but i think that they would need to limit this a bit. Perhaps rewards should come from the makers own pocket, initially at first. That way we dont see twinks everywhere, Cause i would hate to see a Spatula take down a Neg'Vagh.

[Terrani]

A player could create a mission and then pass it to the local CO who, if they accept it, could then assign a task force to prosecute the mission

I can see this being a useful tool for acquire resources and scout out new sectors and territories for your faction.
Ex.
Ship A does an independent recon mission on sector B, gathers information and then proceeds to send information in the form of a mission to his local CO. The CO selects ship(s) he think will be able to accomplish the task given the information provided. Seems a little simple, but not over all that bad (to me at least)

[Jezebel1669]

Ship A does an independent recon mission on sector B, gathers information and then proceeds to send information in the form of a mission to his local CO.It'd be good if you did have to perform some sort of recon mission to get the credits before you would be allowed to submit a mission to the CO, this would limit the people from submitting too many missions and swamping the CO while at the same time making posting missions a drain in resources to the player.

[shadow_wraith26]

this whole player/command game segment is going to be a blast to watch in action (if the DEVs have in fact been listening...)

but one thing I could never live down is envision this...

"channel open"
"Captain Shadow_wraith26 Admiral Fuzzypants101 has ordered you to sector 08 to provide support to federation forces there"

Anybody else think it would hard to follow behind and take serious some of these crazy screen names no doubt players will have?

(Can’t say name is exempt from the list but...LOL)

[vp21ct]

I can see this being a useful tool for acquire resources and scout out new sectors and territories for your faction.
Ex.
Ship A does an independent recon mission on sector B, gathers information and then proceeds to send information in the form of a mission to his local CO. The CO selects ship(s) he think will be able to accomplish the task given the information provided. Seems a little simple, but not over all that bad (to me at least)

It could also be a wonderful way to add to the economic system.

Ex. 1
Player A needs a certain resoarce for the completion of a ship/item/ect. But is unable to aquire it.
They give a CO. a mission for a character to find/get these rescorces and send them to the original poster.
In this way the payment isn't so much a monetary unit (a very un-trek method) But is rather expeirience (a much more trek method)

Ex. 2
A player is wanting to scout out some new zones for base construction, but they dont/do want to do it in a contested zone. They draft up a mission and give it to a CO., who then assigns a ship to scout out for new zones that are/aren't contested, but also don't have a starbase already in them. Once again the payment is exp, not money.

[Terrani]

this whole player/command game segment is going to be a blast to watch in action (if the DEVs have in fact been listening...)

but one thing I could never live down is envision this...

"channel open"
"Captain Shadow_wraith26 Admiral Fuzzypants101 has ordered you to sector 08 to provide support to federation forces there"

Anybody else think it would hard to follow behind and take serious some of these crazy screen names no doubt players will have?

(Can’t say name is exempt from the list but...LOL)

I'd personally get a little kick out of that, but it's be hard to remember just which crazy name you are.

It'd be good if you did have to perform some sort of recon mission to get the credits before you would be allowed to submit a mission to the CO, this would limit the people from submitting too many missions and swamping the CO while at the same time making posting missions a drain in resources to the player.

Ya, a little incentive for the initiative. But I guess the flooding of local CO's would be pretty bad at times, I guess a pre-rec of the job should be the ability to micro-manage.

[Jezebel1669]

Ex. 1
Player A needs a certain resoarce for the completion of a ship/item/ect. But is unable to aquire it.
They give a CO. a mission for a character to find/get these rescorces and send them to the original poster.
In this way the payment isn't so much a monetary unit (a very un-trek method) But is rather expeirience (a much more trek method)

Ex. 2
A player is wanting to scout out some new zones for base construction, but they dont/do want to do it in a contested zone. They draft up a mission and give it to a CO., who then assigns a ship to scout out for new zones that are/aren't contested, but also don't have a starbase already in them. Once again the payment is exp, not money.It'd certainly help get people acting as though they were part of a military command structure more than just a lone player trying to max out their own abilities. Calling in the experts when faced with a situation they can't handle.

I wonder if they'll have SCE and Klingon equivalent units available too?

Ya, a little incentive for the initiative. But I guess the flooding of local CO's would be pretty bad at times, I guess a pre-rec of the job should be the ability to micro-manage.No, the other way around. You'd have to perform a recon mission or something similar which would grant you a command chit which could then be used to submit a mission to Command. Since you'd have to 'mine' for chits it would prevent you from just sending tonnes of crappy missions to the CO all the time.

[Terrani]

If this idea flies I can see regional CO's really becoming invaluable to the economies and development of players. And I don't think worrying about bad CO's is much of an issue. Simply put if they think they'll be getting a free ride they will be sadly mistaken, can't handle the influx of player mission while at the same time directing allies to assist allies or requesting the services of one player for another? It's simple, you resign your spot and let someone who can take it on have a chance. You can go back to playing with yourself in some remote corner of space :p

[vp21ct]

that being said, is there a thread where we can post threads that the devs should look at

[Terrani]

that being said, is there a thread where we can post threads that the devs should look at

I'm pretty sure this is it, right here on the STO Discussion board. But if the Devs are looking? Who can say for sure. I guess we could try shouting at them, but they all seem so mysterious and like they have hidden agendas, either that or flicking pencils at the ceiling.

[shadow_wraith26]

So the thread is becoming mature enough to incorporate past discussions…

What about section 31: should they be able to have priority missions sent to SFC and their own system of elections and hierarchy? Some kind of covert influence over the faction? could you as a captain be manipulated and you wouldn’t even know it till an operative is in your ready room? Starfleet doesn’t recognize them so that would be a unique aspect of this player command structure that is being conceived

(of course these have been discussed but not in this context)

What about faction flagships: could the command hierarchy invest in an elite crew that would be pulled from the best captains in the faction? Even the resources to build a ship? You could gain massive prestige and soon be invited to serve onboard; this in turn would give you greater experience opportunities, what could they be? Maybe there’s a penalty faction–wide for the loss of a flagship (isn’t it demoralizing to see the Enterprises hull fragments in the Romulan senate) or a benefit like having the ship in your sector. It could be something players could aspire to and could be the single instance of player crews in the game...period

please comment these are only rough ideas

[Jezebel1669]

What about Section 31?I'd actually like to see them as a completely seperate faction in their own right. Operating within Federation space and even flying Federation colours so that people would think they were Federation, but at the same time taking their orders from a different chain of command.

What about flagships?We were discussing earlier about letting fleets amass resources to build their own outposts and starbases. I'd see a flagship, like a Prometheus class as a mobile starbase, acting as a mobile command hub for a fleet.

[vp21ct]

So the thread is becoming mature enough to incorporate past discussions…

What about section 31: should they be able to have priority missions sent to SFC and their own system of elections and hierarchy? Some kind of covert influence over the faction? could you as a captain be manipulated and you wouldn’t even know it till an operative is in your ready room? Starfleet doesn’t recognize them so that would be a unique aspect of this player command structure that is being conceived

(of course these have been discussed but not in this context)

What about faction flagships: could the command hierarchy invest in an elite crew that would be pulled from the best captains in the faction? Even the resources to build a ship? You could gain massive prestige and soon be invited to serve onboard; this in turn would give you greater experience opportunities, what could they be? Maybe there’s a penalty faction–wide for the loss of a flagship (isn’t it demoralizing to see the Enterprises hull fragments in the Romulan senate) or a benefit like having the ship in your sector. It could be something players could aspire to and could be the single instance of player crews in the game...period

please comment these are only rough ideas

not bad, tho rank would have to be sketchy on the flagship.

and it would have to be Enterprise

[Terrani]

Originally Posted by shadow_wraith26 View Post
What about Section 31?

I can see the CO's receiving missions from the Devs under the banner of Section 31. I guess in this case the CO can post the mission to the region and see who's interested, or if he'she knows an exceptional captain that would be more then willing to take on the challenge they could do it that way. I don't think it's be classified as official UFP work, more like official freelancing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow_wraith26 View Post
What about flagships?
We were discussing earlier about letting fleets amass resources to build their own outposts and starbases. I'd see a flagship, like a Prometheus class as a mobile starbase, acting as a mobile command hub for a fleet.
Today 04:43 PM

I see no problem with individual fleets gathering the resources to construct a flagship for themselves. And I agree with you 16 of 69, a mobile command center would be pretty sweet.

[shadow_wraith26]

I guess what I meant (and tried clarifying with the small edit) is what about "Faction-wide flagships" slight differnce

Obviously like the Enterprise for the federation (don't know about the klingons)

[Jezebel1669]

I see no problem with individual fleets gathering the resources to construct a flagship for themselves. And I agree with you 16 of 69, a mobile command center would be pretty sweet.It'd also be hella expensive and hella powerful. Easily the kind of ship which would turn the tides of battle but at the same time losing it would set the entire faction back heavily due to the loss of the resources they'd put into it.

They were talking on another thread about capturing assets and agreed that ships would be tricky but things like stations would be possible. This would mean a faction that'd constructed a starbase for themselves would always have the option of taking control of it again should it ever be lost, but with a flagship it'd just get destroyed and be gone forever.

I liked the idea Shadow_wraith26 had about wreckage on display in the Romulan Senate. If someone did destroy a flagship they might even be awarded with a trophy of some kind which could be kept as a prize or traded for extra prestige.

I guess what I meant (and tried clarifying with the small edit) is what about "Faction-wide flagships" slight differnceTo that I'd just say that which ever fleet was the most powerful could be awarded the Federation flagship as a prize, maybe after some sort of inter-fleet contest.

[Terrani]

My stand on factional flagships is that it ideally should be a factional effort, and I hate to use WoW as an example here but here it comes. When they released patch 2.4 Fury of the Sunwell they released a series of new quests that when done by both factions increased the progress of opening up new areas, items, gear and eventually the Sunwell Plateau itself. Now I'd like to see Cryptic take a similar approach and have each faction separately work to build its factional flagship. Now as who gets rights to it? I think if a fleet has enough resources to research the blueprints and then get authorization to start to build it in their stardocks, they should be the privilege to fly it. Which eveer individual gets to fly it is up to the fleet. That's just my stance.

[Jezebel1669]

...I think if a fleet has enough resources to research the blueprints and then get authorization to start to build it in their stardocks...Blueprints for ships. Nice idea.

[Terrani]

Blueprints for ships. Nice idea.

Thank ya ;)

[TheMasterpiece]

I like that idea but with a twist, I can see old experienced players who have put it a ton of time and got to where the rank of captain isnt even sufficient. I can see these players perhaps having a leadership in their guild, perhaps like a king in other MMOs, where they would be a rear admiral, live on their guilds starbase, and issue commands from there

[vp21ct]

This thread is goin on my "Threads the Devs should look at... and you too (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=7256)." Thread.

[Jezebel1669]

I like that idea but with a twist, I can see old experienced players who have put it a ton of time and got to where the rank of captain isnt even sufficient. I can see these players perhaps having a leadership in their guild, perhaps like a king in other MMOs, where they would be a rear admiral, live on their guilds starbase, and issue commands from thereYes exactly, while at the same time they may decide to go and form their own fleets and concentrate their efforts on building up their own Starbase, starting off with nothing more than an outpost station.

Of course, if they choose to remain on the bridge of a starship, who are we to stop them? Anyone could choose to create a new fleet and if they can gather the resources and find territory to claim they can build a station, but only by either working your backside off to gather the resources or by attracting more players to your fleet would you be able to expand the station and build up it's defenses.

[Terrani]

This thread is goin on my "Threads the Devs should look at... and you too (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=7256)." Thread.

I agree with this course of action lol. But anyways, back to more discussion and refining.

I like that idea but with a twist, I can see old experienced players who have put it a ton of time and got to where the rank of captain isnt even sufficient. I can see these players perhaps having a leadership in their guild, perhaps like a king in other MMOs, where they would be a rear admiral, live on their guilds starbase, and issue commands from there

Fleet Admirals (guild leaders) will already most likely be in a position of having their posting on a starbase, so in essence they will function as the fleets CO, distributing player missions from the fleet and commanding the fleets forces. But I can see fleet CO's still using normal regional CO for the generic player missions from non "guildies".

[TheMasterpiece]

Yes exactly, while at the same time they may decide to go and form their own fleets and concentrate their efforts on building up their own Starbase, starting off with nothing more than an outpost station.

Of course, if they choose to remain on the bridge of a starship, who are we to stop them? Anyone could choose to create a new fleet and if they can gather the resources and find territory to claim they can build a station, but only by either working your backside off to gather the resources or by attracting more players to your fleet would you be able to expand the station and build up it's defenses.



Of course they should be able to stay in ships i agree 100%. Kirk was still on the enterprise as an admiral, and admirals can pretty much do as they please. I was more thinking along the lines of a secondary hub office where the admiral can stay whenever hes in his fleets main sector at their starbase. This way the entire fleet would have a hub station to socialize and to b e given missions important to their fleet.

For instance, if theres a small klingon group going around attacking some of their fleet members, the admiral could post a mission at the starbase, All available ships find and destroy these ships.

Of course this is just my vague outline of what could happen but I think it would make things real interesting

[shadow_wraith26]

starship blueprints lol

Anybody else have a Star Wars flashback

"klingon spies have stolen the plans for the Enterprise, they have identified a small 2 meter exhaust port. A Bird of prey and two photon torpedoes will be sufficient”


Actually stealing plans and technology would not be that unreasonable for some light subterfuge missions

[Signalsgt]

Need more information on how detailed they are going to make planets.

[Terrani]

starship blueprints lol

Anybody else have a Star Wars flashback

"klingon spies have stolen the plans for the Enterprise, they have identified a small 2 meter exhaust port. A Bird of prey and two photon torpedoes will be sufficient”


Actually stealing plans and technology would not be that unreasonable for some light subterfuge missions

Wow, you know what? I think I was unconsciously thinking about the death star lol

[Jezebel1669]

Fleet Admirals (guild leaders) will already most likely be in a position of having their posting on a starbase, so in essence they will function as the fleets CO, distributing player missions from the fleet and commanding the fleets forces. But I can see fleet CO's still using normal regional CO for the generic player missions from non "guildies".I'd like it if anyone from the faction could use the facilities of the fleet's starbases, even if they weren't a member of the fleet, but only by joining the fleet itself would you get access to the missions the other members were creating, gain from any advantages the fleet may have accrued and take advantage of the fleet's internal trading and support.

...if theres a small klingon group going around attacking some of their fleet members, the admiral could post a mission at the starbase, All available ships find and destroy these ships.I was thinking if there were Klingon raiders attacking assets the base CO would send out a comm message to all available ship to immediately intercept them, rather than just posting a mission and hoping someone would notice it next time they're docked. Sometimes you'd need the rapid response to take out a threat.

[vp21ct]

This Thread has really evovled, and i think for the better. It would be impractical to have a player character calling the shots for the whole federation, at least not since they have already said that this will not be a pvp centric game. However, all of the ideas that have come in the last few pages have been wonderful on giving players power, and would be integrated well into the whole exploration thing as well.

Just something i wanted to say, for new people getting overwhelmed by all the posts. :)

[Terrani]

I'd like it if anyone from the faction could use the facilities of the fleet's starbases, even if they weren't a member of the fleet, but only by joining the fleet itself would you get access to the missions the other members were creating, gain from any advantages the fleet may have accrued and take advantage of the fleet's internal trading and support.

This is a top notch quality idea. Fleet starbases have two CO's, one for the fleet specific missions and one for everyone else who might be passing by. Can I say genius? I think I shall.

[shadow_wraith26]

I'd like it if anyone from the faction could use the facilities of the fleet's starbases, even if they weren't a member of the fleet, but only by joining the fleet itself would you get access to the missions the other members were creating, gain from any advantages the fleet may have accrued and take advantage of the fleet's internal trading and support.

I was thinking if there were Klingon raiders attacking assets the base CO would send out a comm message to all available ship to immediately intercept them, rather than just posting a mission and hoping someone would notice it next time they're docked. Sometimes you'd need the rapid response to take out a threat.

"just FYI planet killer in your sector" lol

but things should be dependant on players

16 of 69 mentioned recon well what if your on recon in a sector and just happen to see a borg cube, well if they see you and say you never make it back, well it might be another 2-3 hours before the fleet actually detects it and the call is sent out for the hunt

[vp21ct]

16 of 69 mentioned recon well what if your on recon in a sector and just happen to see a borg cube, well if they see you and say you never make it back, well it might be another 2-3 hours before the fleet actually detects it and the call is sent out for the hunt

That would be able to happen, and that has happened in the show, its very "Trek"

[Terrani]

16 of 69 mentioned recon well what if your on recon in a sector and just happen to see a borg cube, well if they see you and say you never make it back, well it might be another 2-3 hours before the fleet actually detects it and the call is sent out for the hunt

That is unless they implement some kind of instantaneous respawn back at a starbase or outpost, in which you could tell everyone where said cube owned you.

[shadow_wraith26]

raising the stakes even higher...what about comm. ranges? where if this said Cube is in pursuit and your out on the frontier, maybe you can't call for help immediately we've all heard Uhura say how long it would take for a message to reach Starfleet if they called for advice

in game mechanics maybe they'll just explain the new highspeed subspace network the UFP put in.

[vp21ct]

raising the stakes even higher...what about comm. ranges? where if this said Cube is in pursuit and your out on the frontier, maybe you can't call for help immediately we've all heard Uhura say how long it would take for a message to reach Starfleet if they called for advice

in game mechanics maybe they'll just explain the new highspeed subspace network the UFP put in.

Awesome point, and like i said before, it would be totally trek. To be honest i would find kicking maximum warp to get in range of comns before a borg cube blasts my ass from there to andoria to be quite exhilirating.

[Jezebel1669]

Just to highlight some of the ideas that have come up.

Fleets
Players should be given the option of forming or joining fleets. These would act as both resource pools for all the members of the fleet, helping out newbies and gaining better technology, as well as command structures passing down player created missions from whomever was the CO of the fleet at that time.

COs
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

This is my take on what we've been discussing so feel free to correct me.

[Terrani]

raising the stakes even higher...what about comm. ranges? where if this said Cube is in pursuit and your out on the frontier, maybe you can't call for help immediately we've all heard Uhura say how long it would take for a message to reach Starfleet if they called for advice

in game mechanics maybe they'll just explain the new highspeed subspace network the UFP put in.

Well it is about 100+ years from the rough and tumble adventures of Kirk and and gang so I would be expecting some kind of improved long range communications device. For example, in Voyager they were able to communicate long ranges by using the Hurogin comm grid. So I think it's fair to assume the the Feds and the Klingons have developed a similar system.

[Terrani]

I have to say 16 of 69, that about sums everything up very nicely. But one can never be too thorough, so I say keep the ideas coming. I personally would love to hear more for you guys/gals :D

[shadow_wraith26]

We forgot a consensus on higher up positions in the hierarchy like the high councils (or are we tabling that for now), using the elections or klingon leadership challenges

And that faction flagships should be the only instance of player crews (just to make all those who may have wanted them happy and not to overuse it in game) with some awesome bonuses but devastating losses if it burns under your command (how many letters in the alphabet do you think we have left?)

thats about it...good job

[Terrani]

We forgot a consensus on higher up positions in the hierarchy like the high councils (or are we tabling that for now), using the elections or klingon leadership challenges

Ooo, good save. I believe our standing on this were elections for feds, hand-to-hand combat for Klingons? Or something along those lines.

[vp21ct]

I have to say 16 of 69, that about sums everything up very nicely. But one can never be too thorough, so I say keep the ideas coming. I personally would love to hear more for you guys/gals :D

yeah just to clarify: who's a he and who's a she

Im a he

[Jezebel1669]

I'm a she. :)

[Terrani]

Well I'm a guy, but I didn't really think it mattered. We're all trekkers and gamers coming together to pitch ideas that we have poured our hearts into for a game that we all look forward to playing. Other then that I think gender/nationalist/race is really irrelevant, just my opinion

[AlienTwo]

Do you think that because of the fact it has been released you could play Human, Andorian or Vulcan this states some type of schism in the Federation?

[shadow_wraith26]

Q-“Interesting isn’t it not a he, not she, not like anything you ever seen, an enhanced humanoid”

ok now seriously I'm a he

[onibocho]

This is a good idea. But I think this feature should evolve with the game. As more players advance in it then some who show good initiative can take key rolls that can affect the story line. Of course there are limitations imposed by the GM's but it would make for unexpected gameplay for the other players. Kinda like a randome stiring of the Pot (plot).

[Jezebel1669]

Do you think that because of the fact it has been released you could play Human, Andorian or Vulcan this states some type of schism in the Federation?You think there are going to be stories between the Andorians and the Vulcans? Or that all the other races are missing?

[AlienTwo]

You think there are going to be stories between the Andorians and the Vulcans? Or that all the other races are missing?

I don't think the other races will be missing, I was just thinking about the different interfaces. Will there be only 2? Maybe the Gorn joined the Klingons (or were conquered) and there will be only 2 basic PC sides to choose.

[Terrani]

Do you think that because of the fact it has been released you could play Human, Andorian or Vulcan this states some type of schism in the Federation?

I'm pretty sure there is already a thread for this, I remember reading it earlier on. So to avoid race based arguments I'm going to request the we stay on topic. If you take issue with something relevant to the thread, by all means speak up, but if it's not relevant then please kindly shut up :)

[Jezebel1669]

...and there will be only 2 basic PC sides to choose.They've already said that to start with it'll just be Federation versus Klingon, but hopefully others will join once the game's up and running.

[vp21ct]

To get back to the Purpose of this post i would like to pose one question. How would our fleet command structure work right in the Houses of the klingons, and how would it effect pvp areas and the faction strugle on a whole.

[Terrani]

To get back to the Purpose of this post i would like to pose one question. How would our fleet command structure work right in the Houses of the klingons, and how would it effect pvp areas and the faction strugle on a whole.

I can see Cryptic making the houses either the Klingon 'guilds' or have them as the "multi-race' feature for the Klingons. If "guilds" are th case then I guess the Admiral will be the respective Klingon Fleet CO. But not to abandon the idea of the PC CO's on different stations and outposts. For the sake of gameplay I can see it paralleling the federation system.

[Kinneas]

I like the idea of there being politics in STO. Pretty darn exciting ideas.

What about other more simple methods of participation?

If there are major political story lines, perhaps subscribers could vote on UFP issues every few months.

Just simple electronic voting that pops up on your PADD or comm device?
--

I do appreciate the ideas where someone who strives to be great at diplomacy/morals/ethics/intimidation/etc could become powerful enough to be an an ambassador and be able to sway large numbers of NPC.

Very powerful.
--
Media and politics: It would be nice to create media in STO so a news agency could bring you political coverage, fleet news, UFP news, etc.

[Jezebel1669]

To get back to the Purpose of this post i would like to pose one question. How would our fleet command structure work right in the Houses of the klingons, and how would it effect pvp areas and the faction strugle on a whole.The way I'd see it each fleet would be operated independently by the CO. They'd basically run all the aspects within the fleet while the Captains would choose between doing the mainstream 'storyline' missions or the player generated missions available from the fleet command. If you don't like the way a certain fleet is being operated then just leave and join another. Over time the successful leaders will be able to attract and maintain larger fleets and the resources gathered will allow them to purchase more powerful stations and ships to dole out.

For the Federation the term Fleet probably would do okay, while for the Klingons you'd just change it to House instead, so the group would be called something like House of <CO>.

[vp21ct]

I can see Cryptic making the houses either the Klingon 'guilds' or have them as the "multi-race' feature for the Klingons. If "guilds" are th case then I guess the Admiral will be the respective Klingon Fleet CO. But not to abandon the idea of the PC CO's on different stations and outposts. For the sake of gameplay I can see it paralleling the federation system.

Yeah but Federation fleets wont war with each other, Klingon houses do and will.

[Terrani]

I like the idea of there being politics in STO. Pretty darn exciting ideas.

What about other more simple methods of participation?

If there are major political story lines, perhaps subscribers could vote on UFP issues every few months.

Just simple electronic voting that pops up on your PADD or comm device?
--

I do appreciate the ideas where someone who strives to be great at diplomacy/morals/ethics/intimidation/etc could become powerful enough to be an an ambassador and be able to sway large numbers of NPC.

Very powerful.
--
Media and politics: It would be nice to create media in STO so a news agency could bring you political coverage, fleet news, UFP news, etc.

We were actually toying with some of these ideas early on. More so the server wide voting for delegates/CO's and the like. I have to say I really like the idea of media coverage in the game, if you have any more ideas on this topic, please share.

[vp21ct]

I would also like to apologice to KXSwa. srry we stole youre thread:(

[TheProphets]

We were actually toying with some of these ideas early on. More so the server wide voting for delegates/CO and the like. I have to say I really like the idea of media coverage in the game, if you have any more ideas on this topic, please share.


I don't know about in game media coverage, but It would certainly be logical to have regular intelligence reports coming off sub space, letting us know of current situations, negotiations, political hot spots (all being clues to pick up missions to be found, etc.)

[Terrani]

Yeah but Federation fleets wont war with each other, Klingon houses do and will.

Ideally I'd love to see "war games" between Fed fleets, just like the worlds navies do now a days. But for the Klingons I guess it will be a little more extreme. But I can see most of the people who will be interesting in playing Klingon will most likely be fairly pvp/action oriented, so it might now be as much as a problem as it seems right now. Or it could be the most detrimental to the game then we can even imagine.

[vp21ct]

I don't know about in game media coverage, but It would certainly be logical to have regular intelligence reports coming off sub space, letting us know of current situations, negotiations, political hot spots (all being clues to pick up missions to be found, etc.)

It could also alert us to new sectors discovered or new starbases formed. Or major defeats of oneside or the other. Ill bet te klingons would love to know when the feds deserved a good ass whoopin.

Fleet messages of the day could also be managed through this, and that would make for a more streamlined feal. Further more there could be local "posts" like "im stuck can someone help me" or "NEED DILITIUM"

granted those could get anoying, but they would be a good place to ask for help rather than global chat.

[shadow_wraith26]

Yeah but Federation fleets wont war with each other, Klingon houses do and will.

Sad fact but it makes the klingons have to work extra hard to gain the advantage and from time to time there could be "honor” missions like "this federation dog killed my brother or has dishonored me cast aside our differences and join me in battle."

If anyone has played medieval 2 total war what about a system like the pope calling for crusades there could be targeted objectives which klingons would just delight in fighting alongside each other like a superior defense post or going questing for an artifact

Federation=strategy, logistics, unity
klingons= honor, numbers and higher combat attributes

Make either side have to fight the inherent "Trek" strengths of their enemies

[Terrani]

I don't know about in game media coverage, but It would certainly be logical to have regular intelligence reports coming off sub space, letting us know of current situations, negotiations, political hot spots (all being clues to pick up missions to be found, etc.)

I personally think media coverage would be a good addition to the game. I can tend to see it follow along the lines of JemarqueMarquis' Comm Chatter the application of Social Psychology (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6513&highlight=comm+chatter)

I'm hoping it will ad an sightly more social NPC aspect. Standard NPC's are boring! Let them talk about the news or any other range of topics. And who knows, mayne during your career you did something to gain a little media attention? Imagine walking through a starbase and overhearing two NPC's talking about the battle you commanded and won?

[TheProphets]

I personally think media coverage would be a good addition to the game. I can tend to see it follow along the lines of JemarqueMarquis' Comm Chatter the application of Social Psychology (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6513&highlight=comm+chatter)

I'm hoping it will ad an sightly more social NPC aspect. Standard NPC's are boring! Let them talk about the news or any other range of topics. And who knows, mayne during your career you did something to gain a little media attention? Imagine walking through a starbase and overhearing two NPC's talking about the battle you commanded and won?


Oh don't get me wrong, I think its a neat idea.
But throughout the Star Trek universe, there has been surprisingly little shown about how the media works in it. In DS9, we have Jake Sisko becoming a war correspondent reporter during the Dominion war... and one of the stories in the Worlds of DS9 novels deals with the media a bit... but other than those two situations, nothing comes to my mind.

My take on it in terms of being in a MMO is that the developers would rather have us doing things in the game rather than being a "spectator" in the game. The role of media would have to perform some function in the game mechanics... such as critical information delivery regarding missions, etc. However, I do see the possibility of a in game media being a reward delivery system as well, announcing when a player has completed a big mission (like a epic questline) or discovered a new alien species, first contact, etc.

[Terrani]

It's also kind of like how people want the Orbital Historic Ship Museum. It's just things like that which make the game more 'human'. Instead of everything static but the players, have a little interaction with the NPC world. Makes the game feel and play smoother.

[Terrani]

I think we've delved off topic for far too long. I have a question for everyone. Would you prefer to have just elected regional CO's or have someone above them? Like another group of player CO's that have more control over a smaller group of CO's? Or is this idea to confusing.

[Trojun]

I don't think that's confusing - I like that idea. The higher level CO's that is.

[shadow_wraith26]

I think we've delved off topic for far too long. I have a question for everyone. Would you prefer to have just elected regional CO's or have someone above them? Like another group of player CO's that have more control over a smaller group of CO's? Or is this idea to confusing.

Not at all multiple posts mean multiple opportunities for all players to take part,

Having sector commanders report to Starfleet command or the high council would be cool but the big shots need to feel that they can still have fun and the power to influence the game world. how many times did you hear that the president was leading the vanguard in the cardassin invasion (klingons like gowron did it countless times but not Starfleet)

make the command hierarchy a game within it self in that there are just as many missions on Earth at Command as there are in the outside world (do the same for the klingon homeworld) make it so if you were just dull you could be that pencil pusher and never feel bored (homeworlds being government HQ’s would have more missions on them than normal worlds)

[Chalen]

I hope if anyone gets that kind of role they are the the right kind of person, not just anyone who plays long enough, because some people would do it well and some...wouldnt...

[Terrani]

I don't think that's confusing - I like that idea. The higher level CO's that is.

Thanks. This is the way I am picturing it. Now this could be a Devs hell but I think there should be a very strong military chain of command, just like 16 of 69 kept saying. But I'm only going to try and focus on the CO's right now and their positions.

As in any military there are lots of ranks, someone always seems to be over you, I don't see the difference for STO. Like stated earlier regional CO's will be stationed on starbases or outposts and will be the general hub for that region in the way of mission pickups/drop offs or whatever they might else be used for.

There are also Fleet CO's (basically guild leaders). They're not necessarily higher then the normal CO's, they just manage their fleets assets (resources, fleet specific missions, fleet deployment, etc...)

Now, above them I'm thinking of something like factional defense CO's. These CO's will be more oriented towards requesting large scale fleet movements for their area of command. They will give fleets more teamwork/combat oriented missions (such as intercepting am enemy fleet before they reach your territory or striking at an enemy fleets base of operations.) The same drop off and pick up rules for the normal CO's can apply to the defense CO's as well, but instead of them having smaller mission, they are fleet missions and more action oriented.

After this, who knows, player Presidents and Chancellors? Ambassadors maybe? Give me your opinions please.

[Terrani]

I hope if anyone gets that kind of role they are the the right kind of person, not just anyone who plays long enough, because some people would do it well and some...wouldnt...

I gave a pretty solid (in my opinion) remedy to this problem earlier in the thread.

If this idea flies I can see regional CO's really becoming invaluable to the economies and development of players. And I don't think worrying about bad CO's is much of an issue. Simply put if they think they'll be getting a free ride they will be sadly mistaken, can't handle the influx of player mission while at the same time directing allies to assist allies or requesting the services of one player for another? It's simple, you resign your spot and let someone who can take it on have a chance. You can go back to playing with yourself in some remote corner of space

I hope this one makes sense

[shadow_wraith26]

I think this works...but things get less fun the higher you go, like I said the president does not take adventures on a starship so there needs to be ways to counter that.cool detailed HUDs, for example
thats why I thought it might be good to centralize anybody above starbases on the homeworld where the DEVs could make and concentrate a huge multitude of content.

[rjstur]

This Idea of CO's is the best. Commanding an outpost to a starbase is such an exiting idea. I find If we could get this in would become one of the most intriguing, challenging and fun part of STO
Also the war games between Federation fleets is a must and It's not like Starfleet doesn't play war games. IE STNG

[Terrani]

I think this works...but things get less fun the higher you go, like I said the president does not take adventures on a starship so there needs to be ways to counter that.cool detailed HUDs, for example
thats why I thought it might be good to centralize anybody above starbases on the homeworld where the DEVs could make and concentrate a huge multitude of content.

I've seen people who are interested in being able to advance through a diplomatic career of sorts along side your command of a staship. I don't see why a vet can't run for office, if they want to bore themselves to an early grave, they are free to do so.

[Jezebel1669]

I'd prefer to see Starfleet Command as a storyline tool controlled by the admins and GMs rather than players. Have the local level command in the hands of the players and have the big orders handed down to us from on-high. Interaction on a forum site or something so the players can get involved with developing the wider story sure, but having a dedicated team of writers and developers capable of introducing new gameplay elements for big missions when needed would be far more interesting.

[Terrani]

I'd prefer to see Starfleet Command as a storyline tool controlled by the admins and GMs rather than players. Have the local level command in the hands of the players and have the big orders handed down to us from on-high. Interaction on a forum site or something so the players can get involved with developing the wider story sure, but having a dedicated team of writers and developers capable of introducing new gameplay elements for big missions when needed would be far more interesting.

I have to say, I agree with you. I would like to see some high rank player characters in big positions. It really does make sense for writers to script the universe from the highest command positions.

[Terrani]

I guess with GM's and Admins in the high command spots, it kind of trashes our idea for Klingon hand-to-hand combat for higher command positions?

[Jezebel1669]

I like the idea of Defence COs as well. Region wide commanders able to call on all the varied fleets in the region and coordinate larger scale operations when the need arises. The job would be more diplomacy than anything else though, trying to get the different Fleet COs to cooperate and turn up to the rendezvous point on time with enough ships to make it worthwhile.

I guess with GM's and Admins in the high command spots, it kind of trashes our idea for Klingon hand-to-hand combat for higher command positions?On the contrary, Klingon command structure would be rife with hand-to-hand combat. If you wanted to take over your House, the regional governor's position or even control of just a new ship you could be having a fist fight.

The only thing would be if you wanted to face off against the leader of your House you'd have to get the support of a certain amount of the members before being allowed to challenge them. With the regional governorship you'd have to get the support of a certain number of Houses within the region and to go any higher you'd have to get support of the regional governors, or possibly just the Houses instead if the governors aren't cooperating. Could get messy in the aftermath of a coup though, as the new leaders may decide to replace the people who hadn't supported them by demanding they fight a duel with a suitable replacement.

I'd set the levels for support lower than what you'd need in the Federation to get voted into position though. So if you wanted to replace the commander of your fleet in the Federation you'd have to get the support of at least something like 60% of the fleet members, but if you want to seize control of your House you'd only need 40% and win a duel. If you aren't popular though you may find yourself facing another challenge almost immediately. This would make the command structure in the Klingon Empire far more volatile and thematically appropriate.

[Captain_Intrepid]

Media and politics: It would be nice to create media in STO so a news agency could bring you political coverage, fleet news, UFP news, etc.

Wasn't Harry Kim involved in something like that in his academy days? And Ben Sisko's son during DS:9?

[shadow_wraith26]

I'll agree, maybe the DEVs need to be somewhere in the higher positions to maintain control (although I kind of liked the idea of them as Q and us as the mortals)

although Starfleet Command and the high council should be a bustling atmosphere with NPCs running every which way and reports always coming over the intercom and lots of small time missions (let the garden or commons stay free of activity for places of virtual serenity.)

[Jezebel1669]

Wasn't Harry Kim involved in something like that in his academy days? And Ben Sisko's son during DS:9?Jake Sisko was a reporter while trying to become a writer. One of my all time favourite episodes was when he ended up on the frontline with Dr Bashir.

I'd like to see popular opinion being used to alter how much political support you'd require to challenge a CO for their position, maybe if you'd won significant victories or acted in a manner befitting a Starfleet officer you'd get a boost to your personal image just long enough to insinuate yourself into a higher ranking position.

[Terrani]

Wasn't Harry Kim involved in something like that in his academy days? And Ben Sisko's son during DS:9?

Exactly why I don't see it as a bad idea. A little more human interaction couldn't hurt.

I like the idea of Defence COs as well. Region wide commanders able to call on all the varied fleets in the region and coordinate larger scale operations when the need arises. The job would be more diplomacy than anything else though, trying to get the different Fleet COs to cooperate and turn up to the rendezvous point on time with enough ships to make it worthwhile.

I'm glad you like it. I'm quite fond of it myself :p. I think it's a good idea to get the fleets to mingle a bit. Kind of like a half and half guild raid. You got your guys and you won't mind seeing what the other guys can do. Spark a little bit of friendly competition while you are crushing your enemy below your feet. I also wanted to group the option for Federation fleet war games with the defense CO's. Go to the nearest defense CO and request a general war game or invite a fleet to take you on. Klingons would be able to do this too, but it would more likely be like one house challenging another to combat, winner gets the spoils of the loosing house.

On the contrary, Klingon command structure would be rife with hand-to-hand combat. If you wanted to take over your House, the regional governor's position or even control of just a new ship you could be having a fist fight.

The idea of Klingons fighting for political power just seems to tie in perfectly with the ability to challenge other houses.

[TheProphets]

I'd like to see popular opinion being used to alter how much political support you'd require to challenge a CO for their position, maybe if you'd won significant victories or acted in a manner befitting a Starfleet officer you'd get a boost to your personal image just long enough to insinuate yourself into a higher ranking position.

This is probably the wrong thread for me to post this, but it gave me an idea.
In most mmorpgs, you can click on a player and pull up their character bio.... in STO, wouldn't it be cool if this screen of information was the character's Starfleet personnel record? It could be automatically updated as your character advances, with awards, etc... even wtih information that is classified to the viewer, depending on their own rank. So, for example, some info wouldn't be viewable to another player unless they were equal or higher rank.

This could play into the game mechanics as it would be here where you'd see if you had the prerequisites to challenge a CO.

Of course, if you had a history of challenging the orders of a CO, it too would be noticed in your personnel file....

[Terrani]

This is probably the wrong thread for me to post this, but it gave me an idea.
In most mmorpgs, you can click on a player and pull up their character bio.... in STO, wouldn't it be cool if this screen of information was the character's Starfleet personnel record? It could be automatically updated as your character advances, with awards, etc... even wtih information that is classified to the viewer, depending on their own rank. So, for example, some info wouldn't be viewable to another player unless they were equal or higher rank.

This could play into the game mechanics as it would be here where you'd see if you had the prerequisites to challenge a CO.

Of course, if you had a history of challenging the orders of a CO, it too would be noticed in your personnel file....

I think that's a pretty neat idea. I like the whole "see if you're worthy" part. Makes sense to me. Don't they do that IRL millitarys anyways? If you don't meet the qualification you can't get the command, or if you have too many demerits they won't even look at your application.

[Jezebel1669]

I think that's a pretty neat idea. I like the whole "see if you're worthy" part. Makes sense to me. Don't they do that IRL millitarys anyways? If you don't meet the qualification you can't get the command, or if you have too many demerits they won't even look at your application.Sometimes someone without the proper qualifications will still be given a position as long as they have a lot of merits and commendations. They've shown that while they haven't managed to pass a few exams they can do the job in the field. Kinda like battlefield promotions.

...wouldn't it be cool if this screen of information was the character's Starfleet personnel record? It could be automatically updated as your character advances, with awards, etc... even wtih information that is classified to the viewer, depending on their own rank.Maybe the player's been acting outside the normal chain of command too, performing black ops either with or without their knowledge. These would also be classified even to someone of higher rank.

They might even be able to petition their CO to classify a particularly embarrassing defeat to cover up their disgrace, for a sizable drop in their prestige of course. Plus anyone of high enough rank could still find out the truth.

[shadow_wraith26]

Sometimes someone without the proper qualifications will still be given a position as long as they have a lot of merits and commendations. They've shown that while they haven't managed to pass a few exams they can do the job in the field. Kinda like battlefield promotions.

Maybe the player's been acting outside the normal chain of command too, performing black ops either with or without their knowledge. These would also be classified even to someone of higher rank.

They might even be able to petition their CO to classify a particularly embarrassing defeat to cover up their disgrace, for a sizable drop in their prestige of course. Plus anyone of high enough rank could still find out the truth.

"Hey aren’t you that guy that accidently blew up the academy science labs 2 years back" LOL

*does a Picard maneuver*

Seriously, personal records are great especially for command types to reference, they might have a modified search engine to find the best people for certain jobs

"Lets see commanders...now engineering backgrounds....engineering backgrounds on Vulcan...ah Lt. Solek would be prefect to repair that blasted Vulcan sensor station”

[Terrani]

I just realized that I have been commenting and pitching ideas on this thread for 8 hours straight... and that I haven't left this site, let alone sleep for almost 40 hours. But I don't really care! This is so interesting to develop, and I love hearing what the community has to say hopefully our ideas catch the eyes and ears of the Devs and we can hope to see the fruits of our mental labour come to life. That said;

Sometimes someone without the proper qualifications will still be given a position as long as they have a lot of merits and commendations. They've shown that while they haven't managed to pass a few exams they can do the job in the field. Kinda like battlefield promotions.

Battlefield promotions I think are going to have to be a must in this game for the obvious occasions when your main command structure is, Cryptic forbid, incapacitated. Giving Ensign Ricky command over the ship/station/fleet/away mission.

Maybe the player's been acting outside the normal chain of command too, performing black ops either with or without their knowledge. These would also be classified even to someone of higher rank.


I like this idea because of what we previously said about Section 31 missions you can obtain from certain CO's. It can go on your record and no one needs to know.

[Duras]

I remembered to post...

I agree, merit and knowlege not to mention dedecation..

But with different species and their own driven politics, would politics remain cannon, or be flexable to ingame current strengths and possible STO storylines should they use them..?

[shadow_wraith26]

I remembered to post...

I agree, merit and knowlege not to mention dedecation..

But with different species and their own driven politics, would politics remain cannon, or be flexable to ingame current strengths and possible STO storylines should they use them..?

Well deed I say it, STO has to be just a game at some point. As we play we build upon "soft cannon” is it? (never could really keep up with the terminology)

that’s what makes it interesting, if it doesn't conflict with the DEVs overall story politics should be ever shifting maybe the klingons could join the Romulans or even the federation could do the same for that matter. With enough species and content and the players taking control of the hierarchy who knows who we could end up fighting or siding with...that is the sandbox, thats the game.

[Terrani]

I remembered to post...

I agree, merit and knowlege not to mention dedecation..

But with different species and their own driven politics, would politics remain cannon, or be flexable to ingame current strengths and possible STO storylines should they use them..?

A degree of flexibility will no doubt have to be developed but I can't see any real danger to the classic trek cannon for politics. Of course we won't know for sure for about ~3 years, and this is just a collective of ideas. But hopefully we can keep most of what trek politics are as they are

[Terrani]

that’s what makes it interesting, if it doesn't conflict with the DEVs overall story politics should be ever shifting maybe the klingons could join the Romulans or even the federation could do the same for that matter. With enough species and content and the players taking control of the hierarchy who knows who we could end up fighting or siding with...that is the sandbox, thats the game.

Romulans teaming up with Klingons? I can't see that happening, ever. But I think I can see the Fed teaming up with the Romulans because of how Nemesis ended. No doubt there would be still bad blood flowing, but I can't see it being as bad as the Klingons.

[Terrani]

Sorry about the double post, I hit submit before I was really ready. What I was going to continue on saying is that this is where player controlled ambassadors could meet with ambassadors of the faction the Devs say might be willing to talk. In that they can hammer out details for a long term peace agreement or just a temporary joint strike mission. I think this is the perfect way for politically minded players to get their fill of the Trek universe instead of leaving everything up to NPC's

[shadow_wraith26]

Sorry about the double post, I hit submit before I was really ready. What I was going to continue on saying is that this is where player controlled ambassadors could meet with ambassadors of the faction the Devs say might be willing to talk. In that they can hammer out details for a long term peace agreement or just a temporary joint strike mission. I think this is the perfect way for politically minded players to get their fill of the Trek universe instead of leaving everything up to NPC's

that’s a good one, something like...(for lack of a better name)
"General post: all ambassadors are invited to observe and participate in the historic second Babel conference to be held in one week consult your embassy for modes of transportation today"

think of a virtual image of that federation auditorium at the end of Enterprise , the DEVs would make great moderators and could make sure the game is staying "within parameters" as the Klingon's try in vain to get a formal apology for khitomer

But we may see maquis or other rogues appear when a fleet logs on to find that their sector has been traded to the Cardies to keep the peace (just a scenario)

[Einarr]

I didnt read the whole thread so unsure if this has been thrown out there.

I dont know how the ranks will work but I would assume the top rank for PC would be Captain.

Now if thats the case maybe guilds could have one of their Captains become and Admiral and be put in charge of a Sector or region, Build a starbase, develop the area for colonists etc.

The admiral could have mission choices to offer that would allow the players guild or not come in and help keep the peace move colonists etc.

Maybe a Klingon General gets the same Idea and builds a starbase on the other side of the sector and you have a player made PvP area? Batteling over mining rights or trying to take out the others starbase and ground facilities if there is a resource rich Class M world.

If no ones around maybe the Admiral or even NPC Admiral when hes offline could launch NPC ships to try and protect against Player Klingon invaders?

[Terrani]

that’s a good one, something like...(for lack of a better name)
"General post: all ambassadors are invited to observe and participate in the historic second Babel conference to be held in one week consult your embassy for modes of transportation today"

think of a virtual image of that federation auditorium at the end of Enterprise , the DEVs would make great moderators and could make sure the game is staying "within parameters" as the Klingon's try in vain to get a formal apology for khitomer

But we may see maquis or other rogues appear when a fleet logs on to find that their sector has been traded to the Cardies to keep the peace (just a scenario)

And it's not bad thinking. Hopefully the Devs are watching from above ans taking what we have to say to heart. We've come along way tonight, and I can still see potential to be squeezed out

[Terrani]

Just to highlight some of the ideas that have come up.

Fleets
Players should be given the option of forming or joining fleets. These would act as both resource pools for all the members of the fleet, helping out newbies and gaining better technology, as well as command structures passing down player created missions from whomever was the CO of the fleet at that time.

COs
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

This is my take on what we've been discussing so feel free to correct me.

I would just like to quote this for anyone who is just skimming over the last few pages of this thread, this is in a nutshell everything we discussed up to and including page 10 of this thread.

This is the CO system so far, a little more in depth;

As in any military there are lots of ranks, someone always seems to be over you, I don't see the difference for STO. Like stated earlier regional CO's will be stationed on starbases or outposts and will be the general hub for that region in the way of mission pickups/drop offs or whatever they might else be used for.

There are also Fleet CO's (basically guild leaders). They're not necessarily higher then the normal CO's, they just manage their fleets assets (resources, fleet specific missions, fleet deployment, etc...)

Now, above them I'm thinking of something like factional defense CO's. These CO's will be more oriented towards requesting large scale fleet movements for their area of command. They will give fleets more teamwork/combat oriented missions (such as intercepting am enemy fleet before they reach your territory or striking at an enemy fleets base of operations.) The same drop off and pick up rules for the normal CO's can apply to the defense CO's as well, but instead of them having smaller mission, they are fleet missions and more action oriented.


A little more about Defense CO missions;

I think it's a good idea to get the fleets to mingle a bit. Kind of like a half and half guild raid. You got your guys and you won't mind seeing what the other guys can do. Spark a little bit of friendly competition while you are crushing your enemy below your feet. I also wanted to group the option for Federation fleet war games with the defense CO's. Go to the nearest defense CO and request a general war game or invite a fleet to take you on. Klingons would be able to do this too, but it would more likely be like one house challenging another to combat, winner gets the spoils of the loosing house.


Thanks 16 of 69, shadow_wraith26, VulcanPhsyco, and everyone else who chipped in!

[shadow_wraith26]

Job well done so far...the most fun I'll have is being able to play the game, see an admiral fly by and say to myself, you know you see that nice post you got for youself, I remember when that idea was just a thread on the forum or
Hey! I remember coming up with that

Star trek's not my idea to begin with, I don't mind if the DEVs get the credit as along as they don't waste our time and finish with a good refined product. good luck guys

[TheMasterpiece]

Romulans teaming up with Klingons? I can't see that happening, ever. But I think I can see the Fed teaming up with the Romulans because of how Nemesis ended. No doubt there would be still bad blood flowing, but I can't see it being as bad as the Klingons.





I agree. I think after nemesis we will see a new dialogue and cooperation between the romulans and the federation. Perhaps this is why the federation and klingons arent as close anymore. Who knows, we may even see allegiances and alliances change throughout the quadrant as the game evolves

[Terrani]

I agree. I think after nemesis we will see a new dialogue and cooperation between the romulans and the federation. Perhaps this is why the federation and klingons arent as close anymore. Who knows, we may even see allegiances and alliances change throughout the quadrant as the game evolves

I would love to see how that would play out politically, especially if it was player vs player, so to say. Would some 15 year old punk say something so insulting to a Romulan player that a fringe Federation planet is bombed into oblivion? It would be interesting to see how the kids bosses handle that lol

[vp21ct]

that’s a good one, something like...(for lack of a better name)
"General post: all ambassadors are invited to observe and participate in the historic second Babel conference to be held in one week consult your embassy for modes of transportation today"

think of a virtual image of that federation auditorium at the end of Enterprise , the DEVs would make great moderators and could make sure the game is staying "within parameters" as the Klingon's try in vain to get a formal apology for khitomer

But we may see maquis or other rogues appear when a fleet logs on to find that their sector has been traded to the Cardies to keep the peace (just a scenario)

That is not only a good idea, it is workable.

Ex 1.
In expansion pack 1, the Romulans are introduced (just an example), The players of this faction, however, find that they cant stand up to the raw might of the klingon empire. With all of their Contestable zones taken on the klingon front, they decide to turn to the Federation for assistance, The player fleets sue the Admninistrators higher up to allow peace talks to begin, and then a conference is held between the COs of both factions. The conference goes well, but doesn't concluede anything final, only a tenuas cease fire that make ships unable to outright kill each other on first sight, and also make direct trade possible. This allows the Romulan players to devote more time to the Klingon front and mabe get some territory back.

Ex 2.
IN expansion pack 2, the Kazon and the Dominion are introduced as playabe (again only examples). While the Kazon are considered harmless by most factions, they are able to negotiate an alliance with the federation. this influx of new, hard to reach territory allows the federation to expand rapidly, and because the romulans were excluded from the negotiations they break their alliance. Depending on how admin handles this, it could be a formal agreement amongst COs or a general agreement of players by blowing up any fed ship in the neutral zone. The klingons, who were getting their ass kicked ally with the dominion and attempt to goble up the romulans, who in turn try to sue for peace again.

While these are only base speculations they would truly be an interesting idea.

[vp21ct]

Thanks 16 of 69, shadow_wraith26, VulcanPhsyco, and everyone else who chipped in!

i may not chip in often but i try to make it count when i do.:)

[Terrani]

That is not only a good idea, it is workable.

Ex 1.
In expansion pack 1, the Romulans are introduced (just an example), The players of this faction, however, find that they cant stand up to the raw might of the klingon empire. With all of their Contestable zones taken on the klingon front, they decide to turn to the Federation for assistance, The player fleets sue the Admninistrators higher up to allow peace talks to begin, and then a conference is held between the COs of both factions. The conference goes well, but doesn't concluede anything final, only a tenuas cease fire that make ships unable to outright kill each other on first sight, and also make direct trade possible. This allows the Romulan players to devote more time to the Klingon front and mabe get some territory back.

Ex 2.
IN expansion pack 2, the Kazon and the Dominion are introduced as playabe (again only examples). While the Kazon are considered harmless by most factions, they are able to negotiate an alliance with the federation. this influx of new, hard to reach territory allows the federation to expand rapidly, and because the romulans were excluded from the negotiations they break their alliance. Depending on how admin handles this, it could be a formal agreement amongst COs or a general agreement of players by blowing up any fed ship in the neutral zone. The klingons, who were getting their ass kicked ally with the dominion and attempt to goble up the romulans, who in turn try to sue for peace again.

While these are only base speculations they would truly be an interesting idea.

I can see this as extremely plausible. With an unstable galaxy, alliances would be made and broken like clock work, giving a real teeter-totter sensation to galactic politics. You could log on one day check the news and see that the Klingons have decided to go to war with the Dominion, or the Romulans and the Orion Syndicate have decide to join forces and declare war on the Federation. The next time you log on it would be completely different. I know it's not very cannon, but it will make events in the game more interesting.

[vp21ct]

I can see this as extremely plausible. With an unstable galaxy, alliances would be made and broken like clock work, giving a real teeter-totter sensation to galactic politics. You could log on one day check the news and see that the Klingons have decided to go to war with the Dominion, or the Romulans and the Orion Syndicate have decide to join forces and declare war on the Federation. The next time you log on it would be completely different. I know it's not very cannon, but it will make events in the game more interesting.

I think it would be more solid than that, but yeah they would shift, and it would be VERY dependant on character attitudes,

Ex. 1a (as from above)
Many Romulans are not satisfied with their alliance, and as such ignore much of its terms. Further more they use it to strike far into federation territory. While the Federation is unhappy about this, the Romulan COs assure their Federation counterparts that these are the actions of rouges and can be delt with as such.

[shadow_wraith26]

I was just sort of a joking at first but what about rogue governments similar to the maquis, (yes i know there long dead) do they have a place in this ever expanding political system with the same hierarchy except that they will only be recognized by some factions

Envision an idealistic klingon warrior who through masterfully planning builds an insurrection not just aimed at the high council for power but with hopes of reverting the empire to its pre-war "peaceful" state. He joins forces with the federation and any warriors who will draw steel with him.

or maybe a neo-Maquis that with all this constant renegotiations your bound to make your own colonist unhappy.

The idea only works if they could soon form a nation able to survive diplomatic recognition by at least someone or else every faction would just have standing orders to "kill on sight" like pirates

last but not least (just thought of it) what about asylums? traitors, defectors etc.

comments?

[vp21ct]

last but not least (just thought of it) what about asylums? traitors, defectors etc.

comments?

These would be handled by SEVERE penaltys similar to what we described earlier, or in the case of rouge factions they would only be able to join those.

Another possibility would be to allow "Freeports" starbases where people of any faction could dock, or even traitors to all factions.

[Terrani]

I was just sort of a joking at first but what about rogue governments similar to the maquis, (yes i know there long dead) do they have a place in this ever expanding political system with the same hierarchy except that they will only be recognized by some factions

Envision an idealistic klingon warrior who through masterfully planning builds an insurrection not just aimed at the high council for power but with hopes of reverting the empire to its pre-war "peaceful" state. He joins forces with the federation and any warriors who will draw steel with him.

or maybe a neo-Maquis that with all this constant renegotiations your bound to make your own colonist unhappy.

The idea only works if they could soon form a nation able to survive diplomatic recognition by at least someone or else every faction would just have standing orders to "kill on sight" like pirates

last but not least (just thought of it) what about asylums? traitors, defectors etc.

comments?

Definitely something to think about, I'm sure some of the eggheads on the forums will be more then happy to propose situations and/or real game practical applications. I'm sure lots of people would have more than enough ideas

[shadow_wraith26]

I would love seeing a game reenactment of “The Defector” where the Romulan admiral tries to convince Picard of a base in the neutral zone.
As a “rogue”pleading for help from a mortal enemy while dodging a pursuing Warbird would be fun.

[Terrani]

Another possibility would be to allow "Freeports" starbases where people of any faction could dock, or even traitors to all factions.

Freeports bring up a very important part of the Star Trek universe. You aren't always going to be able to find the parts you want at the prices that you think are fair in your home empire. So why not travel to a independently/black market to see if you can get more bang for your "buck" (since there isn't really a currency system other then bartering and latinum in Star Trek) There is always the possibility of good finds at a good price, but quality could lack, or the part is too old to be compatible. Constant harassing by Ferengi and pirates a like. Also the possibility to get into a fight with the locals would most certainly be higher.

[vp21ct]

It would be imperative to have some sort of system in place to alow you to "rejoin" youre faction.

Another way to handle it is explained in the following example

Ex 1b (as per above example)
The Federation continues to demand that the Romulans deal with the actions of their rouges. However they still turn a blind eye to such things, Explained in character as not being fully aware of such activities coming from their officers, or out of char as them explaining that they aren't the admin. This leads to the Federation breaking the ties, and the romulans are back to square one.

[QuestionDeca]

On the topic of traitors and defectors, what could probably happen is while they could keep the ship they came in on, they would not be able to crew it as most of the crew would of died or left. In turn, the faction they have turned to would provide them with a starter ship like a new player and a new (lower) rank, once they prove themselves as trustworthy to their new faction they could rise up in rank a little faster than a normal player as their personal stats would not of dropped (and it's possible some of their old bridge crew remain)
, allowing them to get back up to where they once were a little more easily than starting a new character. Eventually this would allow factions' to have captians of the other factions' species. What they do from there would depend on their actions as players that activly betray the factions they join with will probably be shuned or marked as pirates or rogues and be forced 'underground' or out beyond 'known space'. It'd probably make playing that character difficult to near impossible but then it'd be the captains' own fault.

[Jezebel1669]

Freeports bring up a very important part of the Star Trek universe.Freeports work in canon too, after all Deep Space Station K-7 was used by both Federation and Klingon ships due to the Treaty of Organia giving them rights to use the refit and repair facilities of such stations (like I was suggesting earlier for non-fleet PCs within a faction)

...once they prove themselves as trustworthy to their new faction they could rise up in rank a little faster than a normal player as their personal stats would not of dropped...Personally I'd deliberately penalise a traitor with lower experience gain from any missions being performed. This would reflect the fact that their new faction would never truly trust a traitor while at the same time making it less likely that a player would keep switching sides all the time. If this penalty was cumulative, building up each time a player switched allegiance it would have a major impact on their ability to progress if they later decided to go back to their previous faction.

You'd also have to consider the possibility of having a defector really working as a double agent, just pretending to defect in order to gain access to the opponent's intel and technology.

The Federation continues to demand that the Romulans deal with the actions of their rouges. However they still turn a blind eye to such things, Explained in character as not being fully aware of such activities coming from their officers, or out of char as them explaining that they aren't the admin. This leads to the Federation breaking the ties, and the romulans are back to square one.This also gives the opportunity for players to act as privateers or corsairs, furthering their faction's goals through illegitimate actions which could be denied by the faction command. Much in the way real life privateers operated a few hundred years ago.

[vp21ct]

Sort of a bump but also making a point that i just couldn't leave out.

I think that while it would be interesting to see a diplomacy system as we have discussed I think that something like that would be dooable, but not very fun for casual players, I think the COs would be the most acceptable part of this thread (and no small part at that) as many of the stuff we have talked about would truly immerse hardcore fans, but would start to grind on gamers or people who just want to fly their ship around.

As a gamer i think that we should now endevour to make these features that we have discussed more freandly to the casual gamer, and perhaps a little less extreme in their measures. We need to remember, even though the most of us are trekies, not all of us are.

[Terrani]

Sort of a bump but also making a point that i just couldn't leave out.

I think that while it would be interesting to see a diplomacy system as we have discussed I think that something like that would be dooable, but not very fun for casual players, I think the COs would be the most acceptable part of this thread (and no small part at that) as many of the stuff we have talked about would truly immerse hardcore fans, but would start to grind on gamers or people who just want to fly their ship around.

As a gamer i think that we should now endevour to make these features that we have discussed more freandly to the casual gamer, and perhaps a little less extreme in their measures. We need to remember, even though the most of us are trekies, not all of us are.

An extremely valid point. Personally I think we should keep the CO system as it is. It gives lots of opportunities to hardcore and casual players to try a different aspect of command. I can see how the traitor system could become a problem for gamers. I offer the suggestion of multiple toons in different factions, and once you are the faction you choose you're with them for life. Just like WoW does on PVE servers.

I suppose the political side could be dumbed down a bit, but I would really like to hear from those gammers who would be interested in that sort of in game political system.

[Jezebel1669]

Personally I like the idea for the stations in the game being player built and controlled, perhaps with a few 'capital system' planets having dev controlled bases to ensure that places like Earth, Andoria, Vulcan, Qo'nos and later on Romulus, Ferenginar, Cardassia, Bajor (or at least the Bajoran wormhole) and other significant planets are freely accessible to all.

Making all starbase facilities available to the members of the same faction and some deep space 'free ports' available to all (possible under the control of NPC races) would still make it possible for casual players to fly around doing random missions on the fly without having to get involved with the fleet, regional or any other PC COs.

At the moment I'm seeing there being four different types of mission in the game; Hotspot, Player Generated, Plot and Assigned. A Hotspot mission would be something either the player has wandered into while flying about randomly, such as meeting a spaceborne lifeform which attaches itself to the ship or discovering an ancient repository of knowledge which begins to convert your ship into an ancient museum, or an emergency distress call sent out either from a scripted NPC or by a PC in genuine distress and would be freely undertaken by anyone playing the game, no matter what their alignment or faction.

A Plot mission would be those handed down by Starfleet Command, Klingon Fleet Command, Section 31 or Klingon Intelligence (maybe without the player realising who the last two are actually from) and would involve larger scripted events working their way through a far longer and more elaborate chain of events. Again these would be available to anyone playing the game, possibly via the central hub starbases or from long range subspace messages and would be more optional in their participation than Hotspot missions. However once you'd started down a chain of events you wouldn't be able to walk away from your duty until the entire storyline had been concluded.

Player Generated missions would be those, umm... generated by the players :o and would be available at first through the fleet starbases associated with those players and later through the main starbases once enough people have 'voted' it as a fun mission to play. At the beginning these would only be accessible to members of a fleet but once they'd been accepted by Cryptic they would become available to everyone. This system would allow the devs to concentrate on the larger, more complicated Plot missions as well as making sure there were a large number of unique missions for casual players to play.

Finally Assigned missions would only be available to fleet players and would represent orders handed to them by their fleet COs. They would usually be focused on improving the position of the fleet itself but on occasion may be tied to commands handed down from the regional COs for the betterment of the faction as a whole.

Hope all this isn't too far off topic for any of you guys. :)

[vp21ct]

Hope all this isn't too far off topic for any of you guys. :)

not at all, we need another review of everything we've got so far

[Jezebel1669]

not at all, we need another review of everything we've got so farWould you like me to do the honours?

[Terrani]

Would you like me to do the honours?

I say go for it, you did an excellent job last time.

[vp21ct]

Would you like me to do the honours?
Scertainly


Just to highlight some of the ideas that have come up.

Fleets
Players should be given the option of forming or joining fleets. These would act as both resource pools for all the members of the fleet, helping out newbies and gaining better technology, as well as command structures passing down player created missions from whomever was the CO of the fleet at that time.

COs
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

This is my take on what we've been discussing so feel free to correct me.

In addition to this

Diplomacy
Factions that find it hard to function for whatever reason can hold meatings of their COs. They would sue for a cease fire negotiation to begin. If the Negotiation is accepted then the Dimplomats (or just people who are good at that sort of thing) gather to discuss terms. After negotiations are done the agreements made will be brought into effect (likely by a quick patch) These alliances and cease fires would be tenuous how ever, Likely nothing more than a "you can't shoot me without warning me" sort of deal.

Freeports
There will have to be Stations controlled by no one, these would be placed in the neutral zones. They would be npc regulated though they would likely be hotbeads of activity. Players could use them as trading posts with other factions. They would also be dangerous as other factions will also be using them.

be sure to chip in what i left out.

[shadow_wraith26]

(its amazing how fast these threads develop I leave for a while, come back and a whole new facet has been developed)

I'd love to see the next ambassador Sarek type able to broker a lasting peace (lasting being a few months, year at tops for a great XP bonus)

other than that I really think we have exhausted this thread, with some good ideas of course but how much more could we fit into government without the game just imploding. I’m definitely open to suggestions?

[vp21ct]

(its amazing how fast these threads develop I leave for a while, come back and a whole new facet has been developed)

I'd love to see the next ambassador Sarek type able to broker a lasting peace (lasting being a few months, year at tops for a great XP bonus)

other than that I really think we have exhausted this thread, with some good ideas of course but how much more could we fit into government without the game just imploding. I’m definitely open to suggestions?

I had already said that right now the best thing we could do is work out playability issues. That would make it easier for the devs to use this model.
I REALY WANT TO SEE THEM USE THIS MODEL :D

[Terrani]

I had already said that right now the best thing we could do is work out playability issues. That would make it easier for the devs to use this model.
I REALY WANT TO SEE THEM USE THIS MODEL :D

I agree with this, we work it out now, the Devs just code and play. Saves them time and money having to come up with the idea and hammer it out themselves. A very cost effective idea for them to open this forum so early in game development.

[shadow_wraith26]

(Sorry man, completely missed that first time around)

What about talking through a very dumbed down simulation of the game: The fast road to becoming a CO

Ex. I log on for the first time 2 years from now, the game is complete and were all looking forward to seeing our hard work put into action by the DEVS., after install and the updated “strange new worlds” opening. An elaborate LCARS screen opens up and a character creation is ready.

What happens from there? Its a way to chisel out any kinks in our system, and the DEVs will see how we would theoretically play the game.

[Jezebel1669]

Update:

COs
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Blueprints could also be awarded as a prize for intelligence gathering or black ops missions where an agent has successfully stolen a copy of these plans from an enemy target or a boarding party has managed to steal a new piece of equipment from an opponent's ship during combat.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

Traitors/Defectors
If a player decides to defect to another faction they must first make contact with either a regional CO for the opposing faction or (more likely) one of the GMs stating a good reason for switching sides. That player must then undergo a special mission attempting to escape to a territory controlled by their new faction. The difficulty of this mission will depend upon rank and position within their old faction. A new captain with a low-grade posting would be far less likely to be noticed slipping away than a high-grade admiral. If unsuccessful the player would be stripped of rank and position and have to start rebuilding they career all over again, if successful they would switch allegiance taking a demotion and being assigned a suitable ship by their new faction.

In either case the player would now suffer from a permanent reduction in their rate of experience gathering through missions, although experience accrued by other means would be unaffected. This represents their factions lack of trust in the traitor, whether they managed to switch factions or not. Should a player decide to change their faction again, the same process would occur and another experience penalty would be stacked on top of the first. This would act as a deterrent for players constantly switching allegiance.

Public Opinion
While promotion would normally require a player to accrue sufficient experience in a given role before being granted their new rank sometimes a character may be granted a promotion due to achieving outstanding success in an important mission or by acting in a manner exemplifying their faction's doctrines. This would be a temporary boost in their perceived experience which would allow them to achieve a new rank faster than would be normally possible, however public opinion is fickle and if they don't apply for a new position fast enough this boost would be lost as the public sought out a new hero to idolise. High public opinion could also lead to an increase in the crews morale as they would themselves gain prestige from working under a well-known captain.

Diplomacy
Factions that find it hard to function for whatever reason can hold meetings of their COs. They would sue for a cease fire negotiation to begin. If the Negotiation is accepted then the Diplomats (or just people who are good at that sort of thing) gather to discuss terms. After negotiations are done the agreements made will be brought into effect (likely by a quick patch) These alliances and cease fires would be tenuous how ever, Likely nothing more than a "you can't shoot me without warning me" sort of deal.

Freeports
There will have to be Stations controlled by no one, these would be placed in the neutral zones. They would be NPC regulated though they would likely be hotbeds of activity. Players could use them as trading posts with other factions. They would also be dangerous as other factions will also be using them.

I know I've missed some stuff, could you please remind me what?

[vp21ct]

I know I've missed some stuff, could you please remind me what?

Between my review and youres we got it all.

[Terrani]

(Sorry man, completely missed that first time around)

What about talking through a very dumbed down simulation of the game: The fast road to becoming a CO

Ex. I log on for the first time 2 years from now, the game is complete and were all looking forward to seeing our hard work put into action by the DEVS., after install and the updated “strange new worlds” opening. An elaborate LCARS screen opens up and a character creation is ready.

What happens from there? Its a way to chisel out any kinks in our system, and the DEVs will see how we would theoretically play the game.

I don't see why we can't give this a try. A dry run might be a god idea, granted there are still a lot of unknowns about game starters.

I know I've missed some stuff, could you please remind me what?

VulcanPhsyco had some extra ideas and I think the more in depth CO idea (ie Defense CO's), wouldn't harm it to add. I posted a part on the CO's on page 17 of this thread if you want to reference it.

[vp21ct]

(Sorry man, completely missed that first time around)

What about talking through a very dumbed down simulation of the game: The fast road to becoming a CO

Ex. I log on for the first time 2 years from now, the game is complete and were all looking forward to seeing our hard work put into action by the DEVS., after install and the updated “strange new worlds” opening. An elaborate LCARS screen opens up and a character creation is ready.

What happens from there? Its a way to chisel out any kinks in our system, and the DEVs will see how we would theoretically play the game.

This is a good idea. (i sudgest that we propose what ever situation we are goin to see happen here)

Ex. lets name our Hypothetical Character Captain Redshirt (i know there is one on the forums, maybee he'll like this. First time you log in there wouldn't be any fleets forming, i would think that they have some sort of rank cap on this, Probably comander or captain minimum. after a few promotions though i could see some of the more hard core players getting high enough to make fleets, they set up offices in npc starbases until they gain resorces enough for their own, and wait for the captains to sign up.

[Jezebel1669]

(Sorry man, completely missed that first time around)

What about talking through a very dumbed down simulation of the game: The fast road to becoming a CO

Ex. I log on for the first time 2 years from now, the game is complete and were all looking forward to seeing our hard work put into action by the DEVS., after install and the updated “strange new worlds” opening. An elaborate LCARS screen opens up and a character creation is ready.

What happens from there?At the beginning of the game you'd be floating in space, probably at your faction's homeworld or at least an important world within their space, in your shiny new low-grade ship. At this point you'd have the option of docking at the nearby starbase and uploading a few training missions to gain a quick experience boost, to go hunting around by yourself for a while to get a feel for the game through direct play perhaps running into the odd spacial anomaly or random event which would allow you to gain experience and maybe a few resources or you could hail any nearby PC ships to inquire about signing up to one of the fleets to gain the aid of more experienced players.

Once you'd managed to play the game for a while, whether through scripted Plot missions, freeplay Hotspot missions or fleet based Assigned missions you should have achieved a higher rank which would then give you the option of applying for a fleet command position probably on one of the smaller outpost stations at this point since you'd still be quite a low rank, or forming your own fleet and recruiting a few lower ranked newbies to assist your own bid for power. Either way you'd begin to gain experience automatically at a very slow trickle for being in a position of authority. Or you could just stick to ship command.

Again you'd settle into performing tasks in order to gain experience, but now the variety of those tasks would differ depending on what role you've taken on. If you're stationed on a fleet's outpost you'd be monitoring your territory, communicating with ships and assigning missions as well as passing on information which would be useful to those players ("Klingons off the starboard bow!"). If you'd chosen to create your own fleet you should be concentrating on locating a region to stake a claim to, either an area of space to construct an outpost to act as your fleet command (possibly a mining facility or something similar if you can find the resources) or by settling/conquering/coercing a planet to your faction's control.

If you'd decided to continue with ship command more missions would be now available to you at your new rank, including more Plot missions with more complex and intriguing storylines. New technologies and ships you'd been given access to would also improve your ability to PvP if you so chose.

[vp21ct]

I agree with this, we work it out now, the Devs just code and play. Saves them time and money having to come up with the idea and hammer it out themselves. A very cost effective idea for them to open this forum so early in game development.

Thats the best part about working with trekies on something trek...FREE LABOR

[Kinneas]

We were actually toying with some of these ideas early on. More so the server wide voting for delegates/CO's and the like. I have to say I really like the idea of media coverage in the game, if you have any more ideas on this topic, please share.

Fleet Radio. A segment on the Hailing Frequency podcast was created in 2005 to support the idea of media/news/radio in Star Trek Online.

UFP Media/ (FNN) Fleet News Network have been some of our other ideas.

There are many among us who would like, (after awhile )to take on these roles and provide always in-character coverage and entertainment.

If possible we would like to work with the developer to provide mission information or other information so we have 'some' purpose other than general information and entertainment.

Covering politics is a big part of any news organization.

-Interviewing diplomats and ambassadors will be important.

-providing 'point/counterpoint' discussions is important

-Providing analysis and poll reports.
--

Anyway since STO was initially announced by Perpetual, we have been actively trying to promote this idea.

For any that are familiar with the 'Devil Fish'. (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8135/stoned41805devilfishhs7.jpg)..we would love to get her into the game as very recognizable media ship.

[vp21ct]

Again you'd settle into performing tasks in order to gain experience, but now the variety of those tasks would differ depending on what role you've taken on. If you're stationed on a fleet's outpost you'd be monitoring your territory, communicating with ships and assigning missions as well as passing on information which would be useful to those players ("Klingons off the starboard bow!"). If you'd chosen to create your own fleet you should be concentrating on locating a region to stake a claim to, either an area of space to construct an outpost to act as your fleet command (possibly a mining facility or something similar if you can find the resources) or by settling/conquering/coercing a planet to your faction's control.


Dont forget that players that take out post positions would still have their own ship, with it they would be able to do patrols and even cruise a bit if they wanted, they would just have to remember to check in often.

[vp21ct]

--

Anyway since STO was initially announced by Perpetual, we have been actively trying to promote this idea.

For any that are familiar with the 'Devil Fish'. (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8135/stoned41805devilfishhs7.jpg)..we would love to get her into the game as very recognizable media ship.

it has spinners

[shadow_wraith26]

This "simulation" sounds like those old Derek Smart Games to a degree (Battlecruiser Millennium, Universal Combat)
His Graphic left much to be desired but he knew how to create a strong sense that you were a starship captain (able to do everything you could imagine, even fleet command and control)

[Jezebel1669]

Dont forget that players that take out post positions would still have their own ship, with it they would be able to do patrols and even cruise a bit if they wanted, they would just have to remember to check in often.Yes, but the size of the fleet and the station they're assigned to would affect how much time they'd be expected to spend 'on station'. For a small or medium fleet the commander of a backwater outpost would easily get away with spending quite a bit of time away from his post exploring the galaxy, but if they started to let their responsibilities slip the fleet themselves would be expected to take action. Larger fleets and more important stations would require a lot more hands on action which would limit your roving time.

Swanning around, seducing Orion slave girls and diving into Perdition's Flame too long and you might return home to find someone else in charge of your station.

...he knew how to create a strong sense that you were a starship captain (able to do everything you could imagine, even fleet command and control)That's what I'd be looking at having too.

[Terrani]

For any that are familiar with the 'Devil Fish'. (http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8135/stoned41805devilfishhs7.jpg)..we would love to get her into the game as very recognizable media ship.

Devil Fish LOL! That is one scary looking ship.

[Terrani]

Yes, but the size of the fleet and the station they're assigned to would affect how much time they'd be expected to spend 'on station'. For a small or medium fleet the commander of a backwater outpost would easily get away with spending quite a bit of time away from his post exploring the galaxy, but if they started to let their responsibilities slip the fleet themselves would be expected to take action. Larger fleets and more important stations would require a lot more hands on action which would limit your roving time.

Swanning around, seducing Orion slave girls and diving into Perdition's Flame too long and you might return home to find someone else in charge of your station.

That's what I'd be looking at having too.

I can see that there might be a problem here when PC CO's need to get off the computer and actually participate in the real world (whatever that is lol). So I would like to pitch the idea of either shift work or NPC's to take temporary command.

The NPC CO's would have to be very limited in order to not blow up the servers with super smart AI CO's ordering massive player invasions. Although I'm sure some people would enjoy that and I must admit I would get a laugh at an AI ordering mass suicide missions but I can see after a while it wouldn't be as funny. I recommend NPC CO's only in 'emergency/unexpected' type situations, such as you're playing and an someone comes to your house who you need to talk to (doesn't really matter who, it's just an example) you can put yourself on AFK and a limited NPC CO will take your place while you're gone. Now, so people just don't mass AFK CO I recommend a time limit on the NPC, like a max of 20-30 minutes. If you're not back by then I'm sure the system will be able to find a replacement PC CO. The NPC CO's limited tasks might just include 'keeping the seat warm' and 'taking your messages' while also distributing prefabricated missions to players who might be interested. I think this would work better for regional CO's and defense CO's, not so much the Fleet CO (guild CO). Fleet CO doesn't require constant attention like other CO's will need to have, you're just giving guildes missions, and unless you're planning a massive fleet operation you might not need the Fleet CO on all the time.

Now for shift work, it's just like it sounds. You take shifts with other CO's for the command that you have. You might only have a 1-2 hour shift or something like that (depending on how much you want to play). So after you're done and have to get off someone will be there to take your place. Now of course there will also have to be a back up for this, just in case a CO doesn't show up for his/her post. I'm not sure how the back up system will work yet, I'll keep you posted if I think of something that will work. Now, comments? Inquires? Flames?

[vp21ct]

Now of course there will also have to be a back up for this, just in case a CO doesn't show up for his/her post. I'm not sure how the back up system will work yet, I'll keep you posted if I think of something that will work. Now, comments? Inquires? Flames?

I think and NPC CO with a longer time limit would work well, one that just gives missions to those people that request them.

[Jezebel1669]

I can see that there might be a problem here when PC CO's need to get off the computer and actually participate in the real world (whatever that is lol). So I would like to pitch the idea of either shift work or NPC's to take temporary command.I was thinking along the lines of a station CO being able to set standing orders which the NPC crew could follow in their absence, such as 'if distress call received forward message to ships X, Y and Z' or 'if enemy fleet detected warn ships X, Y and Z and forward message to Fleet CO/Region CO/Starfleet Command'

[vp21ct]

I was thinking along the lines of a station CO being able to set standing orders which the NPC crew could follow in their absence, such as 'if distress call received forward message to ships X, Y and Z' or 'if enemy fleet detected warn ships X, Y and Z and forward message to Fleet CO/Region CO/Starfleet Command'

I think that that would work very well. Sort of a bot without the bot you know what i mean.

[Terrani]

I was thinking along the lines of a station CO being able to set standing orders which the NPC crew could follow in their absence, such as 'if distress call received forward message to ships X, Y and Z' or 'if enemy fleet detected warn ships X, Y and Z and forward message to Fleet CO/Region CO/Starfleet Command'

That's a really good idea actually. I can see that working really well with the AFK NPC's as well

[Jezebel1669]

I think that that would work very well. Sort of a bot without the bot you know what i mean.If the commands weren't sufficient for the fleet to respond effectively then that'd just be another layer of the game you'd have to deal with. In real life you get situations where the command structure breaks down in moments of crisis, why should the game be any different?

Of course of a sector does get overrun when a CO hasn't bothered to turn up for his duties for a few days without getting someone else to cover for him then he'd take a whole lot of demerits and be removed from his post.

[Terrani]

Of course of a sector does get overrun when a CO hasn't bothered to turn up for his duties for a few days without getting someone else to cover for him then he'd take a whole lot of demerits and be removed from his post.

Another way to weed out unfit CO's, perfect. They should probably be kicked down a rank as well.

[vp21ct]

Another way to weed out unfit CO's, perfect. They should probably be kicked down a rank as well.

Not if ranks work as lvls, then it would probably just be a nasty slap on the wrist by taking lots of money.
some people might try it and find that they cant handle THAT but are able to do other stuff well

[Jezebel1669]

Another way to weed out unfit CO's, perfect. They should probably be kicked down a rank as well.I'd say for that a faction would petition a GM to have rank reduced based on the circumstances, that way petty rivalries wouldn't lead to a CO demoting anyone they don't like or that they see as a threat.

Wouldn't stop them assigning a potential political threat to more dangerous missions though. :D

[Terrani]

I'd say for that a faction would petition a GM to have rank reduced based on the circumstances, that way petty rivalries wouldn't lead to a CO demoting anyone they don't like or that they see as a threat.

Wouldn't stop them assigning a potential political threat to more dangerous missions though. :D

Ok, I can see your point lol. No players demoting players in general. Only membership levels in the fleets should give that kind of power to the players.

Politically threatening missions? That might be pretty interesting. How do you propose it?

[Jezebel1669]

Politically threatening missions? That might be pretty interesting. How do you propose it?What I meant was if someone within the fleet was the same rank as you and could possibly replace you as starbase CO you might want to keep sending them on missions which would make sure they'd remain unpopular with the other fleet members so that they wouldn't be able to usurp you. Time for Cpt Popular to go on another baby killing rampage!

As for wider political missions, sneaking weapons to rebels, redirecting mineral rich asteroids so they end up floating away from another fleet's territory and paying reporters to write stories about drug-fueled orgies to befoul your competition's reputation could be included too. It'd certainly be popular once Romulans join the mix.

That leads me onto another thought. We've talked about positive press coverage and morale of crew, but how about missions which would either bring negative coverage of an opponent or affect the morale of their crew without actually having to engage in combat?

[Terrani]

What I meant was if someone within the fleet was the same rank as you and could possibly replace you as starbase CO you might want to keep sending them on missions which would make sure they'd remain unpopular with the other fleet members so that they wouldn't be able to usurp you. Time for Cpt Popular to go on another baby killing rampage!

YARRR! I EAT BABIES FOR BREAKFAST! But a bit more serious, I can see this happening. I suppose it just might be one of those unavoidable outcomes. People will always want to be ******.

As for wider political missions, sneaking weapons to rebels, redirecting mineral rich asteroids so they end up floating away from another fleet's territory and paying reporters to write stories about drug-fueled orgies to befoul your competition's reputation could be included too. It'd certainly be popular once Romulans join the mix.

I really hope they add some of these smaller aspects into the game, and it's not like it isn't canonical, just look at the Ferengi,Orion and the Naussicans. I can see that the fleets will have the recruit a wide array of people in order to make sure their fleet doesn't get shafted. And it would definitely add a different edge to the game.

That leads me onto another thought. We've talked about positive press coverage and morale of crew, but how about missions which would either bring negative coverage of an opponent or affect the morale of their crew without actually having to engage in combat?

Bad press needs to be in the game just as much as good press needs to be. How will we know who to laugh at or stay away from? And what I really wouldn't mind seeing is that if you're on a starbase and you've recently had some bad press, people might be talking about you, or try to get out of your way.

[Jezebel1669]

Bad press needs to be in the game just as much as good press needs to be. How will we know who to laugh at or stay away from? And what I really wouldn't mind seeing is that if you're on a starbase and you've recently had some bad press, people might be talking about you, or try to get out of your way.Kinda like in Fable where locals would cheer and clap or boo and scurry away depending on your alignment.

Mentioning starbases, for base COs I'd still like to see local random events happening on or near the station which would require action. This would give those commanders who decided to stay on board rather than go roaming something fun to deal with.

[Terrani]

Kinda like in Fable where locals would cheer and clap or boo and scurry away depending on your alignment.

Mentioning starbases, for base COs I'd still like to see local random events happening on or near the station which would require action. This would give those commanders who decided to stay on board rather than go roaming something fun to deal with.

I really liked Fable. Can't wait for the second one. I want a chance to use the legendary frying pan! Again! I think random events would be a good thing to keep CO's not as bored. Responding to an emergency would be pretty cool.

[Jezebel1669]

I really liked Fable. Can't wait for the second one. I want a chance to use the legendary frying pan! Again! I think random events would be a good thing to keep CO's not as bored. Responding to an emergency would be pretty cool."Riot on the promenade? Smugglers selling military secrets? Tribbles in the reactor core!?!"

[Terrani]

"Tribbles in the reactor core!?!"

I hope it isn't the Borg (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4692/borgtribbleww6.jpg) kind lol

[shadow_wraith26]

"Riot on the promenade? Smugglers selling military secrets? Tribbles in the reactor core!?!"

(Just checked back in, all the recent ideas are really great)

about events on Station the DEVs could just take a look at any pre-dominion war DS9 episode and change things around a bit

[Kinjiru]

"Riot on the promenade? Smugglers selling military secrets? Tribbles in the reactor core!?!"

ZZZZZZZZZZAAPPPP!

Well, there *were* tribbles in the warp core.

[shadow_wraith26]

What I meant was if someone within the fleet was the same rank as you and could possibly replace you as starbase CO you might want to keep sending them on missions which would make sure they'd remain unpopular with the other fleet members so that they wouldn't be able to usurp you. Time for Cpt Popular to go on another baby killing rampage!

As for wider political missions, sneaking weapons to rebels, redirecting mineral rich asteroids so they end up floating away from another fleet's territory and paying reporters to write stories about drug-fueled orgies to befoul your competition's reputation could be included too. It'd certainly be popular once Romulans join the mix.

That leads me onto another thought. We've talked about positive press coverage and morale of crew, but how about missions which would either bring negative coverage of an opponent or affect the morale of their crew without actually having to engage in combat?

The Romulan political system should be something really unique, maybe even immune to bad press in a way. Who knows with all the problems going on maybe they returned to that mysterious isolation phase. the system should also include a lot more intrigue, its not easy being a romulan CO (deception is everywhere) maybe just as much as its hard to deal with federation procedures and regulations or the klingon battle challenges, play off the traits of each faction.

[Jezebel1669]

ZZZZZZZZZZAAPPPP!

Well, there *were* tribbles in the warp core."Umm... Captain? Now we have a giant radioactive tribble in the ward room. He says he'd like to talk to you about a new script for Hamlet he's worked out."

[Jezebel1669]

The Romulan political system should be something really unique, maybe even immune to bad press in a way.With the Romulans I'd alter the definitions a little. We'd be members of the political landscape after all, not members of the public, and even though the public would have no idea of the intrigues and scandals rocking the command structure we ourselves would have access to all kinds of rumours and secrets. For them I'd see reputation as something far more of a soft spot for an enemy to take advantage of.

[QuestionDeca]

On the topic of Mass Media, one of 16 of 69's previous statements made me think about the possiblility of Fleet Jobs/Specializations, where a fleet could completely or mostly (if choosen by the members) specilized in a specific type of missions or careers. One example would be a fleet based around Reporting or investigation like a news company, or a fleet of engineer captians forming something like another Engineer Corps. A fleet could even be dedicated towards battle or support if the members so choose. This option though would mostly be left to the players but could be included in the fleet setup so that, in example, a fleet being formed specifically for Deep space exploration of a certain sector/area could get Missions from thier faction HQ that reflect that specialization and those missions could change as the fleet changes if they go from exploration to settlement or control.

[vp21ct]

On the topic of Mass Media, one of 16 of 69's previous statements made me think about the possiblility of Fleet Jobs/Specializations, where a fleet could completely or mostly (if choosen by the members) specilized in a specific type of missions or careers. One example would be a fleet based around Reporting or investigation like a news company, or a fleet of engineer captians forming something like another Engineer Corps. A fleet could even be dedicated towards battle or support if the members so choose. This option though would mostly be left to the players but could be included in the fleet setup so that, in example, a fleet being formed specifically for Deep space exploration of a certain sector/area could get Missions from thier faction HQ that reflect that specialization and those missions could change as the fleet changes if they go from exploration to settlement or control.

Good...but i must point out that such would be covered by the Fleet CO

[Jezebel1669]

On the topic of Mass Media, one of 16 of 69's previous statements made me think about the possiblility of Fleet Jobs/Specializations, where a fleet could completely or mostly (if choosen by the members) specilized in a specific type of missions or careers.Hopefully this would be something which would occur naturally. When people form a new fleet they'd have the opportunity to write a mission statement or operational charter describing what they'd like to achieve with that fleet. Whenever someone is looking to join they'd read the charter to see if it's something they could work with. Fleets which are only interested in hunting down enemies to blow up should automatically attract people who want to fight while ones wanting to do recon, exploration or more esoteric roles would attract others.

Since we've also proposed that members of the fleet would be creating their own missions and submitting them to the fleet CO for approval the fleet CO would have the chance to filter out any missions which weren't suitable for their fleet's charter, leading to special missions available for that fleet specialising in a certain field. If a fleet CO preferred to keep things on a more open to individual player choice then they could accept any and all missions which were proposed, depending on repetition and quality.

[manadarken]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. Someone moves up in ranks and commands fleets sending them out on specific missions. But if they are inactive too long they get no privileges along with their ranking.
Not sure how that would work out but it sounds like a good idea in theory.

[Jezebel1669]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea. Someone moves up in ranks and commands fleets sending them out on specific missions. But if they are inactive too long they get no privileges along with their ranking.Hopefully it would be administered by the fleets themselves. If someone hasn't been fulfilling their duties as a fleet CO then they would be replaced by the others within the fleet with another officer, either because they've stopped playing STO (Heaven forbid!), have wandered away from their post to go play with their ship without arranging a replacement or because they're acting in a manner which is harmful to the fleet either due to lack of skill at the role or deliberate manipulation for personal gain.

We were talking about elections for Federation fleets, where you'd have to garner something like 60% of the support from within the fleet in order to usurp command, so that you wouldn't have people constantly taking command for themselves even when the current commander is doing a fine job. With Klingons hand-to-hand combat was suggested. You'd still need to get support from members of the fleet but only something like 40% instead and then you'd have to duel the current commander to relieve them of position. This could end up with command of Klingon fleets (or Houses as I referred to them) transferring a lot more often since you could have two different candidates gaining 40% support at the same time, but that just makes Klingon politics more volatile which I think would be in character for the game.

I'd also recommend that the original fleet CO names their fleet in a way that gives a potential recruit an idea what the fleet does. "Kurn's Killing Cabal" would be appropriate for a Klingon assault/combat fleet, but you'd hardly use it for a scientific or diplomatic fleet. Similarly "Riker's Recon Rovers" would be good for a long-range exploration/recon fleet. You could of course just name your fleet something more official sounding too, such as "17th Sol Recon Fleet" or "201st Starfleet Corps of Engineers".

[Terrani]

I'd also recommend that the original fleet CO names their fleet in a way that gives a potential recruit an idea what the fleet does. "Kurn's Killing Cabal" would be appropriate for a Klingon assault/combat fleet, but you'd hardly use it for a scientific or diplomatic fleet. Similarly "Riker's Recon Rovers" would be good for a long-range exploration/recon fleet. You could of course just name your fleet something more official sounding too, such as "17th Sol Recon Fleet" or "201st Starfleet Corps of Engineers".

I believe that most fleets are doing this already just from what I've seen on the recruitment forum. And I guess it makes sense. Just like guilds in most other MMO's.

[Terrani]

I would just like together a total manifesto of what was discussed on this forum. I will try to include everything I can.

COs
Regional CO
Regional CO's will be stationed on starbases or outposts and will be the general hub for that region in the way of mission pickups/drop offs or whatever they might else be used for. Regional CO's will also be able to give assistance to any ships in that region in the way of alerting them to enemy contacts and/or directing them to engage an confirmed enemy.

Defense CO
These CO's will be more oriented towards requesting large scale fleet movements for their area of command. They will give fleets more teamwork/combat oriented missions (such as intercepting am enemy fleet before they reach your territory or striking at an enemy fleets base of operations.) The same drop off and pick up rules for the normal CO's can apply to the defense CO's as well, but instead of them having smaller mission, they are fleet missions and more action oriented. From these CO's fleets will be able to request competitive PvP from other fleets of the same faction. For the Federation fleet War Games, and for the Klingons House vs. House combat.

Fleet CO
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Mission Types
Hotspot Missions
A Hotspot mission would be something either the player has wandered into while flying about randomly, such as meeting a space borne life form which attaches itself to the ship or discovering an ancient repository of knowledge which begins to convert your ship into an ancient museum, or an emergency distress call sent out either from a scripted NPC or by a PC in genuine distress and would be freely undertaken by anyone playing the game, no matter what their alignment or faction.

Plot Missions
A Plot mission would be those handed down by Starfleet Command, Klingon Fleet Command, Section 31 or Klingon Intelligence (maybe without the player realizing who the last two are actually from) and would involve larger scripted events working their way through a far longer and more elaborate chain of events. Again these would be available to anyone playing the game, possibly via the central hub starbases or from long range subspace messages and would be more optional in their participation than Hotspot missions. However once you'd started down a chain of events you wouldn't be able to walk away from your duty until the entire storyline had been concluded.

Assigned Missions
Assigned missions would only be available to fleet players and would represent orders handed to them by their fleet COs. They would usually be focused on improving the position of the fleet itself but on occasion may be tied to commands handed down from the regional COs for the betterment of the faction as a whole.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO. These missions will be available at first through the fleet starbases associated with those players and later through the main starbases once enough people have 'voted' it as a fun mission to play.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Blueprints could also be awarded as a prize for intelligence gathering or black ops missions where an agent has successfully stolen a copy of these plans from an enemy target or a boarding party has managed to steal a new piece of equipment from an opponent's ship during combat.


Traitors/Defectors
If a player decides to defect to another faction they must first make contact with either a regional CO for the opposing faction or (more likely) one of the GMs stating a good reason for switching sides. That player must then undergo a special mission attempting to escape to a territory controlled by their new faction. The difficulty of this mission will depend upon rank and position within their old faction. A new captain with a low-grade posting would be far less likely to be noticed slipping away than a high-grade admiral. If unsuccessful the player would be stripped of rank and position and have to start rebuilding they career all over again, if successful they would switch allegiance taking a demotion and being assigned a suitable ship by their new faction.

In either case the player would now suffer from a permanent reduction in their rate of experience gathering through missions, although experience accrued by other means would be unaffected. This represents their factions lack of trust in the traitor, whether they managed to switch factions or not. Should a player decide to change their faction again, the same process would occur and another experience penalty would be stacked on top of the first. This would act as a deterrent for players constantly switching allegiance.

[Terrani]

Said it was too long before, this is just a continuation.

Public Opinion
While promotion would normally require a player to accrue sufficient experience in a given role before being granted their new rank sometimes a character may be granted a promotion due to achieving outstanding success in an important mission or by acting in a manner exemplifying their faction's doctrines. This would be a temporary boost in their perceived experience which would allow them to achieve a new rank faster than would be normally possible, however public opinion is fickle and if they don't apply for a new position fast enough this boost would be lost as the public sought out a new hero to idolise. High public opinion could also lead to an increase in the crews morale as they would themselves gain prestige from working under a well-known captain.

Diplomacy
Factions that find it hard to function for whatever reason can hold meetings of their COs. They would sue for a cease fire negotiation to begin. If the Negotiation is accepted then the Diplomats (or just people who are good at that sort of thing) gather to discuss terms. After negotiations are done the agreements made will be brought into effect (likely by a quick patch) These alliances and cease fires would be tenuous how ever, Likely nothing more than a "you can't shoot me without warning me" sort of deal.

Freeports
There will have to be Stations controlled by no one, these would be placed in the neutral zones. They would be NPC regulated though they would likely be hotbeds of activity. Players could use them as trading posts with other factions. They would also be dangerous as other factions will also be using them.

Thanks to everyone who chipped in to create this manifesto.

[Father_Origin]

none I hope.

folk, being what they are would then attempt to control the government to
give unfair advantage to thier friends and use the position to crush anyone they don't like.

Uber fail idea
sorry

[Terrani]

none I hope.

folk, being what they are would then attempt to control the government to
give unfair advantage to thier friends and use the position to crush anyone they don't like.

Uber fail idea
sorry

Well I'm sorry to say it but it happens in real life too. And it will also happen with the whole fleet (guild) idea. People will favor their friends and try to get rid of people they don't like. It's just human nature.

[Father_Origin]

just cuz it happens in real life is no reason to ruin a good game with it
guilds are the exception

I think they were refering to controlling the empire itself

[Boone]

I think Player run Empires/Collectives should be possible.

Early on I'm sure we'll need NPC controlled entities, but it would be nice to see these turned over to the players in time.

[Terrani]

just cuz it happens in real life is no reason to ruin a good game with it
guilds are the exception

I think they were refering to controlling the empire itself

I'm fairly sure that no where in the summary there is anything to say that there will be one player to rule them all. Just player based CO's who will command their local sector. And no one said that you will have to listen to them, that is more of the Fleet CO (guild leader) kind of command. The Regional CO is just a person who will filter player missions and give assistance to players who are in trouble. For an example a player is getting attacked by an enemy player, they call for assistance. The regional CO picks up on this and asks a near by player to help the player in distress. The player who the CO asked to assist does not have to listen to them. It's more of a friendly heads up.

[Jezebel1669]

none I hope.

folk, being what they are would then attempt to control the government to
give unfair advantage to thier friends and use the position to crush anyone they don't like.

Uber fail idea
sorrySince we're just talking about fleet command here instead of people taking over the whole of the Federation if you don't like the way a player is playing favourites then you can either leave the fleet to joing another or just form a fleet of your own to start practicing your own brand of favouritism.

Personally I'd prefer Starfleet Command to be handled by the admins, this way they could take steps against anyone acting out of character and against Federation ideals. The same goes for the Klingon High Command, with the major houses actually being the admin teams.

Not sure where the Federation Council or the Klingon High Council would fit in at this point, having players acting as politicians would be nice but I'd limit them from becoming President or Chancellor.

[rjstur]

Since we're just talking about fleet command here instead of people taking over the whole of the Federation if you don't like the way a player is playing favourites then you can either leave the fleet to joing another or just form a fleet of your own to start practicing your own brand of favouritism.

Personally I'd prefer Starfleet Command to be handled by the admins, this way they could take steps against anyone acting out of character and against Federation ideals. The same goes for the Klingon High Command, with the major houses actually being the admin teams.

Not sure where the Federation Council or the Klingon High Council would fit in at this point, having players acting as politicians would be nice but I'd limit them from becoming President or Chancellor.

All I can add to that is Totally agree. Again, I really hope this makes it into STO.

[vp21ct]

Update:

COs
The person who originally formed the fleet or a voluntary replacement. They would coordinate deployment of the fleet's assets, issue player created missions to suitable ships and handle the fleet's resource pool. As they would be a PC the CO could also deal with any queries and requests the members of the fleet may have. They would initially be in charge of assignments within the fleet (letting people join the fleet and assigning them to task forces for special missions) but this may get devolved as the fleet grows in size.

Stations
Fleets should be able to establish their own stations, ranging from small listening post type outpost stations to fully functioning starbases with possible shipyards and such attached. In order to do this the fleet would have to locate a sector without any stations already in and either controlled by their faction or in neutral 'dead space' between systems, although having a station in a populated system should gather resources and confer other bonuses depending on the system concerned.

Stations may or may not be captured by an enemy, since a valuable station may be left for the enemy to seize in the hopes that it may later be recaptured, as with DS9 during the Dominion War.

COs would usually be stationed on a station, using its advanced comms and sensors to coordinate the fleet more effectively, but should the fleet have the resources they may instead be stationed on a flagship.

Nonfleet PC's would be able to use the station for refit and repair but would only be able to trade, request special fleet missions or 'borrow' resources if they join the fleet first.

Flagship
Two ideas have come up for this. The fleet flagship and the faction flagship.

For the fleet flagship this would simply be either built or purchased by the fleet once they've gathered sufficient resources and blueprints. It would act as a mobile starbase giving the CO the ability to relocate to better support the fleet. Fleet flagships wouldn't be captured like other HQs but instead would be destroyed, making them a valuable but expensive asset should it be lost.

The faction flagship would be unique and only awarded when a fleet has proved themselves superior to the others, possibly by some sort of inter-fleet contest or special mission set.

Player Created Missions
If a player wants to create their own mission they should submit it to the CO who, should it be accepted, would then assign the mission to a suitable task force from within the fleet for them to carry out. I suggested that players would have to perform some sort of recon mission to gain a 'command chit' which could then be used to submit a mission. This would limit the number of missions an individual could submit, since time would be needed to complete the recon first, as well as tempering the submission of crappy missions and swamping the CO.

Blueprints
Only just raised, blueprints would be needed in order to build different classes of starship at a fleets spacedock. These could be obtained either from purchasing them from Starfleet Command, being awarded them through special missions or by researching them at the fleet HQ. Resources would then be used, along with build time, to create a new ship for the fleet which could then be assigned, by the CO, to an appropriate Captain.

Blueprints could also be awarded as a prize for intelligence gathering or black ops missions where an agent has successfully stolen a copy of these plans from an enemy target or a boarding party has managed to steal a new piece of equipment from an opponent's ship during combat.

Delegated Missions
Sometimes a PC may find themselves in a situation where they just aren't equipped to handle a problem. This could be when a warship locates a new source of resources but lack scientific equipment to exploit them or a scout ship locating an enemy station. In these situations the PC would send the information they have to their CO, who could then assign the most appropriate ships to achieve the target instead. While the PC who reported in the intel wouldn't get experience for completing the task, they would gain from the spoils of the mission. For instance by reporting in a source of resources they would get a share of them.

Traitors/Defectors
If a player decides to defect to another faction they must first make contact with either a regional CO for the opposing faction or (more likely) one of the GMs stating a good reason for switching sides. That player must then undergo a special mission attempting to escape to a territory controlled by their new faction. The difficulty of this mission will depend upon rank and position within their old faction. A new captain with a low-grade posting would be far less likely to be noticed slipping away than a high-grade admiral. If unsuccessful the player would be stripped of rank and position and have to start rebuilding they career all over again, if successful they would switch allegiance taking a demotion and being assigned a suitable ship by their new faction.

In either case the player would now suffer from a permanent reduction in their rate of experience gathering through missions, although experience accrued by other means would be unaffected. This represents their factions lack of trust in the traitor, whether they managed to switch factions or not. Should a player decide to change their faction again, the same process would occur and another experience penalty would be stacked on top of the first. This would act as a deterrent for players constantly switching allegiance.

Public Opinion
While promotion would normally require a player to accrue sufficient experience in a given role before being granted their new rank sometimes a character may be granted a promotion due to achieving outstanding success in an important mission or by acting in a manner exemplifying their faction's doctrines. This would be a temporary boost in their perceived experience which would allow them to achieve a new rank faster than would be normally possible, however public opinion is fickle and if they don't apply for a new position fast enough this boost would be lost as the public sought out a new hero to idolise. High public opinion could also lead to an increase in the crews morale as they would themselves gain prestige from working under a well-known captain.

Diplomacy
Factions that find it hard to function for whatever reason can hold meetings of their COs. They would sue for a cease fire negotiation to begin. If the Negotiation is accepted then the Diplomats (or just people who are good at that sort of thing) gather to discuss terms. After negotiations are done the agreements made will be brought into effect (likely by a quick patch) These alliances and cease fires would be tenuous how ever, Likely nothing more than a "you can't shoot me without warning me" sort of deal.

Freeports
There will have to be Stations controlled by no one, these would be placed in the neutral zones. They would be NPC regulated though they would likely be hotbeds of activity. Players could use them as trading posts with other factions. They would also be dangerous as other factions will also be using them.

I know I've missed some stuff, could you please remind me what?

update and bump

[Jezebel1669]

How would people see 'public offices' fitting into the game architecture? Would a person be able to act as a planetary governor running a colony and calling in ships to aid in defense or to provide trade goods for the locals.

I could see a certain style of player enjoying the whole 'balancing an economy' type of gameplay, having to make sure the colony had enough resources to trade for items they needed while at the same time importing the goods they'd need to expand the colony's infrastructure. Random events like pirate attacks and public disturbances could give them a little action on the ground as well.

This would of course be a major upgrade to the main game, and I wouldn't expect it to be part of the initial gameplay at the launch, but it's certainly something to consider.

[Trekkie]

This is a very insightful thread and I also agree that players should be able to be involved in governmental roles, but in a limited capacity.