ST Online and EVE online

[mintor426]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

[superzero]

You tell em tiger! Go back where you came from EVE... people! We don't take kindly to your kind round these parts! Raaargh, I'm filled with interweb rage too!

;)

[Ric_Adbur]

I don't think anyone said they wanted this to be EVE 2...

[Falin]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

iot's not? hmmm..and here i thought they were making Eve 2: return of the wookie! ;p

[AaronH]

The issue isn't that people think this is going to be EVE online two, the issue is that people like to make comparisons to existing products, and unfortunately there aren't a lot of popular Scifi MMOs out there.

The comparisons are going to happen, just like they do for every MMO out there.

[Raven0238]

Well Eve does have a beautiful system worked out, however, this is STO and we need to concentrate on new concepts.

[Ric_Adbur]

...though I wouldn't mind seeing STO on a single, large server instead of several small servers. :)

[Falin]

yea, be nice if they had IBM behind them with cell technology, 1 million players in a universe so vast you may only see 5 or 10 of them at any time :)

[Signal]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

EVE is essentially capitalism IN SPAAAAAACE!

Despite the prescence of Ferengi, what little I've seen of Trek episodes has always concentrated on the exploration aspects of space travel. So I would expect STO to be more "quest" or "mission" oriented, if you will.

[Jaqknife]

...though I wouldn't mind seeing STO on a single, large server instead of several small servers. :)

Agreed. So far the more recent MMO's to come out are either instanced too much like AoC or they are somewhere in between AoC and one huge cluster like EVE. Personally I'd prefer one huge cluster or a few Medium sized clusters.

[Daggaroth]

although i hope this will not be Eve 2 i do play eve and i do enjoy it alot. i think there is a good amount of stuff to be learned from CCP and Eve online, the size of the playable galaxy, the diverse amount of ships and modules you can fly, the fact that the galaxy is not always the safest place or the kindest place and you can get scammed out of your life savings.


i hope they learn a few things from eve online but i dont want this to turn into eve online 2.

[Ric_Adbur]

although i hope this will not be Eve 2 i do play eve and i do enjoy it alot. i think there is a good amount of stuff to be learned from CCP and Eve online, the size of the playable galaxy, the diverse amount of ships and modules you can fly, the fact that the galaxy is not always the safest place or the kindest place and you can get scammed out of your life savings.


i hope they learn a few things from eve online but i dont want this to turn into eve online 2.

Exactly. The openness of it, the fact that crime is a fact of EVE life, the single continuous galaxy all players live in... that's what makes EVE so good. I think lessons can be learned from CCP here. I'm definately hoping that it won't turn into anything resembling EVE (even though I love EVE), but I think certain aspects would fit in niceley with STO.

[Falin]

he fact that Eve has ni levels, and your skills are all freely trainable, so you can customize what you want to do, although the times o learn skills is a tad bad, especially for STO.

[Firebird1]

Wait a minute... This isn't COAD?

Where is all the smack?


I am very confused. I'm going to go Mining for a while....

To clear my head.....

[Ric_Adbur]

Wait a minute... This isn't COAD?

Where is all the smack?


I am very confused. I'm going to go Mining for a while....

To clear my head.....

Watch out for those damn can flippers.

[Falin]

Watch out for those damn can flippers.

and watch out for the gate campers!

[Ric_Adbur]

and watch out for the gate campers!

Yeah... best to avoid low-sec alltogether. Stay in 0.5 and up and you'll be safe... probably. :)

[Firebird1]

Yeah... best to avoid low-sec alltogether. Stay in 0.5 and up and you'll be safe... probably. :)

God, it's like you've been there......

Since your now here, can I have your stuff?

[Ric_Adbur]

God, it's like you've been there......

Since your now here, can I have your stuff?

Only if you pry it from my flash-frozen hands. :)

[Falin]

quick, let me pop him with my stealth bomber!

[Daggaroth]

something else that really appeals to me about eve online is the fact the skills are all time based meaning i can do other things ( work, school, talk on star trek online forums) instead of play the game . it appeals to people who have other things they NEED to do.

me for example i am a full time college student, and i dont always have time for playing video games. but i know that i can turn on a skill training and not log back in for days or even weeks and my charecter was still progressing

[Firebird1]

Only if you pry it from my flash-frozen hands. :)

Pry... Cold... Hands... Got it!

So what else is there to do in the forum?

[Gruug]

I play EVE. I love EVE. I love Star Trek. I love sci-fi. These are not mutually exclusive statements. Would I want STO to be EVE 2? No. Would I like STO to be a large as EVE? Yes. That is about where the comparision will end.

[Sen]

I like eve. Eve, however, is limited and gets old (been playing since launch). If the game feels like eve (looking at your ships butt in 3rd person) i will be sad. Thats eve. Thats not startrek.

[NicholasJohn16]

I like EVE Online too.

If STO had a simiilair galaxy system, I think it would be really good. Although instead of using jump gates, you'd just go to warp. As well, a combat based experneice system I don't think would work well here, although the time based skill points may be better in STO.

[Ric_Adbur]

Definately. I want t obe able to see the ships from the outside, but maybe from a spacedock looking into the hangar. :)

Now that would be awesome... to see the size of the ship compared to you... :)

[Falin]

yea free movement through space, but on the scale Eve has would be nice and have real space between solor systems to do things in.

[Dr.Schrodinger]

I totally want a Star Trek Online just like Diablo II or Ultima Online, that would be sweet. Oh, and with space combat like Wing Commander! :p

[Baelz]

Will ship combat be similar to what combat is like in Eve? If not, what will make Startrek different, and better?

[IanD967]

1st: Welcome
2nd. no idea! but people are hoping that ship-to-ship combat will happen aswell as boarding parties where if we have a player crew can fend them off in the corridors and various rooms :)

[ssra]

I think there is going to be one major difference: the lag fest in EVE won't be present in ST simply because not everyone will afford to actualy come and fight with a strong ship and i'm not sure how easy can one replace a ship if he had actualy lost 1.

I for one also hope that in fleet battles i'll be able to see the effects as well, instead of turning them off.

I also think the fights will be similar to the ones in Star Trek Birdge Command.

[Falin]

well for a combat standpoint, Eve battles are pretty slow and boring. don't get me wrong, i love it, but sitting there shooting missles at something for 2 hours does wear on you. you're average ST an wil want battles over in minutes, not hours, but I truely belive even with Photons, Phasers, Plasmas, disruptors and a slew of other futuristic battles that it would still be a long drawn out battle due to defenses.

so how long should 2 ships equal in attack and defense take to wear each other down? that is the question, do we take Eve's point and 2 very equal hips could never destroy each other and the battle could take days to play out, or do we take the twitcher approach and zoom in, kill in 2-3 shots, zoom out aproach.it's going to be a big ba;ancing act for cryptic to determine what is the best combat system to use.

[ssra]

I belive the anser to your question is simple: a battle in ST between 2 evenly matched ships could never last as long as it lasts in EVE simply because in ST you can actualy aim and destroy key systems of the enemy ships. You could target his weapons array or fire at the frontal shields until they are gone and than place a few photon torpedoes and destroy it. It will be a matter of strategy.

[MrFlibble]

Hopefully cryptic will look back at previous ST games and take the best ideas from there. Not a fan of EVE's style of combat myself, SWG jump to lightspeed had a pretty good system even had ships that required teams of people to work.

[Kiyoshi]

I'm all for Perpetual's original idea.

You have a crew of people on the bridge, managing the controls, if one was not present of course an NPC would take their place at the station. While the NPC was not as effective as the player it could still get the job done. According to P2s original game play you would have been able to take out the ships shields and beam over and board and such. That should also be incorporated.

I guess for the most part what I'm saying is that you should have 3 different views when in space flight/combat. You should have a first person view so that you could see your console and controls, a third person view so that you could see around the bridge, and a third person perspective of the ship in the battle so that you could see it develop. You should be able to cycle through these views at your whim.

As far as Eve is concerned, I've played it for almost 5 years now, and I love it, however, if Cryptic gets ST:O right I may never go back. Hopefully they try to stay as true to the canon as possible and not try to radically change the franchise.

[Kaminaja]

Sorry, but I just have to rant a bit.

I'm kind of tired of reading about people who argue that "It should be like EvE - that had a really good feature for doing [Insert game mechanism here]..." It seems like just because the settings for the two games are the same - space - some people feel that ST:O should basicly be an upgraded version of EvE. For me, EvE and ST:O is two very different games and shoudn't be anything like the same. Just because EvE is the only fairly succesfull space MMO doesn't mean it's done right!

I would hate if Cryctic isn't more innovation about a game like ST:O then they would basicly just cut'n'pate features from another game. That includes - well, just about any feature on EvE: Skill Gain, 10+ ships in the hanger, 1 player = 1 any size ship, massive focus on PvP, High focus on loot and money, and so on...

Insted of saying "I want that feature from EvE", I really think people should say "Amaze me with a new way of doing it - make ST:O unique!".

ST:O isn't EvE and I very much hope it wont be EvE II either.

There .. My rant is over .. Let the universal peace and love thingy flow over us again... Except if you are Borg - then you are allowed one green "Resistance is futile"-post. :p

[Dext]

it is not going to be like eve. an I see that as a good thing no game should be like another like alot of mmos now rey to copy wow.

[JSM3050]

Seeing as how Cryptic has produced two successful MMORPGs already, I think it's safe to say that they have a firm grasp of how to make good games. Forum members pointing out things they like in other games simply helps direct Cryptic's development work.

Every game has to have rules and mechanics. Why spend time reinventing the wheel when your time would be better spent developing truly new and unique game features? Example: all characters are going to have stats (assuming Star Trek Online really is as much an RPG as an MMO). Why develop a new way of assigning those stats. There are literally hundreds of systems already made. Pick one that fits the "style" and "feel" you are looking for and apply it.

This post probably sounds unfriendly but, I promise, it's not meant that way. :)

[NeoWolf]

So long as they dont force PVP on us in order to enjoy all asepcts and areas of the game like EVE does then ill be happy.

Being a PVE'er I have no interest in fighting real opponents as opposed to enjoying missions and my own thing against the AI ones :)

[Dext]

So long as they dont force PVP on us in order to enjoy all asepcts and areas of the game like EVE does then ill be happy.

Being a PVE'er I have no interest in fighting real opponents as opposed to enjoying missions and my own thing against the AI ones :)

will P2 was going to have it do with the holodecks so I think there going to do somthing of the same at start that is

[Awarkle]

the problem with making a game unique is you risk alienating new players who might only have ever played wow and dont apretiate that games should be different.

Eve is one of those games which fall into the either love it or hate it catagory. im personally indifferent i just find the leveling system flawed. Also everyone in the game is so paranoid that making friends outside of the starting zone is practically impossible.

[rotary]

So long as they dont force PVP on us in order to enjoy all asepcts and areas of the game like EVE does then ill be happy.You obviously don't understand the Eve universe. PVP can be virtually nonexistent if you choose to take up any of the MANY professions that have minimal exposure to combat.

[Logical_One]

nothing wrong with learning from other MMOs and using what works.

[EvilDonkey]

nothing wrong with learning from other MMOs and using what works.

No, but no one wants a copy of an another game. I also think that many of the EVE gamemechanics would not work well for a STO.

Well, maybe in two days we will know more.

[Cactus]

Again, nothing wrong with learning from others.

I think you missed the point that those of us who can make reasoned and informed remarks are trying to make - Use Eve to LEARN. Please please PLEASE do not copy it and make Eve II. The reason this keeps coming up is that it's the only decent (and most well known) space MMO. Basically it's the best point of reference we have and it hase some very good systems that could be "borrowed".

Yes I could go on about infinity, but that's vaporware and nobody knows exaclty what that's going to be like in the end, and I could go on about Jumpgate Evolution but after reading up on that one you really don't want to hear my opinion.

[Grig]

well Never played eve .. so that said tho i have played WoW,AoC and Swg. Both WoW and AoC i left barbarians and wizards are not my thing.. no matter how or what they do as long as there content and fun stuff to do.. kept me playing Swg 4.5 years now and its been runing for 5 yrs.

[Cyjack]

No. It's really not in Cryptic's nature to make a game that resembles Eve in anything other than subject matter. This is not something I consider at all likely.

[IcarusTyler]

Eve is bar far the most sophsiticated and adult MMO-world, and continues to live with a growing fanbase. It is extremely complex and simulates a world to a much bigger extend then WoW.

This is it's biggest appeal and also it#s biggest weakness, since new players are usually swamped by all the different options.

I sure would like STO to have some of the complexity, but I also want an easy start and some commercial succes for the gameso it keeps living.

That being said let it to the devs to figure out how to do it. They made it before, so it can't be that bad.


/
Worst case scenario: Entire reboot liek in SWG. OMg that really was bad. Let's better not do that.

[SirBismuth]

Seeing as how Cryptic has produced two successful MMORPGs already, I think it's safe to say that they have a firm grasp of how to make good games. Forum members pointing out things they like in other games simply helps direct Cryptic's development work.

<snippage>


This is why I am mentioning the things I like in EVE. I don't want it to be an EVE, or <insert deity here> forbid, a WOW clone. Would just play EVE then.

PVP may be nonconsensual in EVE, but you can for the most part avoid it, that seems to be a big issue with the pirates and other criminals in EVE, as you can avoid a PVP confrontation if you use your brain, and the right modules on your ship.

AB

[Davis]

I played EVE some time ago....that didnt last long.

If STO has even one thing close to EVE Mechanics, I will go right back to SWG and forget about Trek in general.

[eventhorizen]

As a long time player of EvE and as a big time strategy fan, let alone a fan of sci-fi and space, I would have to say that any MMORPG developer could do a lot worse than look to EvE for inspiration.

Despite the all out warfare and non consentual pvp setting, the biggest success of EvE in my opinion are the vast options of deep areas of expertise that are vitaly important and play a profound role in the operation of a dynamic virtual world.

EvE is the only MMO I know of where having departments of expertise and chains of command within your "Guild" actually matters. Where what you do and who you are can have a pivotal role in what happens in the galaxy at many levels. The only MMORPG that combines vast science to equally powerful industry that finishes up in politics and warfare.

EvE may not be everyones cup of tea, and it may have a small subscriber base, but the end result is that EvE has succeeded where everyone else has either failed or not even bothered to try. EvE Online is a virtual world that you play a role within. Play it for long enough and one day you will realise that without ever making any roleplay comments ingame, without ever purposely attempting to take on the persona of a scientist, that is what you have become in EvE, that is the benefit you grant your team mates, that is the area of the game where you make your mark.

Irrespective of the PvP setting, if Star Trek Online is half as good in a critical sense as EvE Online it will be light years ahead of the rest as a social experience.

[eNDIE]

Sorry, but I just have to rant a bit.

I'm kind of tired of reading about people who argue that "It should be like EvE - that had a really good feature for doing [Insert game mechanism here]..." It seems like just because the settings for the two games are the same - space - some people feel that ST:O should basicly be an upgraded version of EvE. For me, EvE and ST:O is two very different games and shoudn't be anything like the same. Just because EvE is the only fairly succesfull space MMO doesn't mean it's done right!

I would hate if Cryctic isn't more innovation about a game like ST:O then they would basicly just cut'n'pate features from another game. That includes - well, just about any feature on EvE: Skill Gain, 10+ ships in the hanger, 1 player = 1 any size ship, massive focus on PvP, High focus on loot and money, and so on...

Insted of saying "I want that feature from EvE", I really think people should say "Amaze me with a new way of doing it - make ST:O unique!".

ST:O isn't EvE and I very much hope it wont be EvE II either.

There .. My rant is over .. Let the universal peace and love thingy flow over us again... Except if you are Borg - then you are allowed one green "Resistance is futile"-post. :p


since all mmos has copied and refined features from other mmos its likely they will do it here allthough i dont mean that they will copy whole games:)

[Lord_Xomic]

EvE is the only MMO I know of where having departments of expertise and chains of command within your "Guild" actually matters. Where what you do and who you are can have a pivotal role in what happens in the galaxy at many levels. The only MMORPG that combines vast science to equally powerful industry that finishes up in politics and warfare.

This.
Eve is bar far the most sophsiticated and adult MMO-world, and continues to live with a growing fanbase. It is extremely complex and simulates a world to a much bigger extend then WoW.
And This.

I'm sick of MMO developers (and just game devs in general) thinking that 'adult game' means A) lots of gory and violence, and/or lots of sex and swearing. That may get you an 'M' or 'AO' rating, but that doesn't make your game 'Mature' or all that intelligent.

The vast majority of MMOs seem to be almost calculated insults to the player's intelligence on every level. Yes, it's a game, we get that, but that doesn't mean it can't be a deep and complex and meaningful as real life.

[hdspidergirl24]

I played EVE for almost a year and no matter where I went, just minding my own business, got owned by other players for the sheer fact that they could. I got tired of it because I couldn't do anything without getting killed for no reason. Liked some, but disliked the rest.
Every game is going to have THOSE kinds of people and I hope, for all that is holy in the ST universe, it doesn't happen here. I've been looking forward to the MMO for the past five years when I started hearing rumors about it. I have high expectations for this MMO and can't wait to start.

[eNDIE]

I played EVE for almost a year and no matter where I went, just minding my own business, got owned by other players for the sheer fact that they could. I got tired of it because I couldn't do anything without getting killed for no reason. Liked some, but disliked the rest.
Every game is going to have THOSE kinds of people and I hope, for all that is holy in the ST universe, it doesn't happen here. I've been looking forward to the MMO for the past five years when I started hearing rumors about it. I have high expectations for this MMO and can't wait to start.

Well EVE is not for all its a cold universe:)

[hdspidergirl24]

Well EVE is not for all its a cold universe:)

Yeah, I guess I should've put my schooling on hold to really get into it.

[Skorpios666]

Havent played EVE But ive heard about it. The part that I dont like is that your character is sort of the ship, you cant go inside the ship and have no player character avatar.

Thats what id hope STO doesnt become.

[Crazyfist]

Ofcourse they are 2 different things, but that does not mean you cant compare the 2.

[Shatterhand]

So long as they dont force PVP on us in order to enjoy all asepcts and areas of the game like EVE does then ill be happy.

Being a PVE'er I have no interest in fighting real opponents as opposed to enjoying missions and my own thing against the AI ones :)

Sorry to be off-topic here in this thread about ST:O/EvE comparisons, but THIS. TOTALLY THIS.

Ugh, it drives me INSANE how some games ram PvP down one's throat. The Matrix Online was one of the worst examples of that. You were practically forced into it at some points of the gameplay, especially during their "storylines" that required the main factions to fight against one another, and the ganking that came from that was out of control. And, of course, every construct they opened up after that HAD to be all about PvP, which made no sense, since you could already do plenty of that in the main gameworld.

I understand that people don't always want to fight NPCS and nothing else. But, if PvP is their kink, let them find it in designated areas outside of the main gameworld. Hopefully in ST:O, the holodeck will be the place for this.

As far as EvE goes, I tried to play that game, and maybe I'm just an idiot, but I found it to be damn near incomprehensible. Looked great, though...but that's about all it had going for it, in my opinion. I'm confident that Cryptic will not turn ST:O into another EvE.

[Wyrminarrd]

I never really got into EvE online, it was just to multiplayer focused and required way to much commitment to play.

I hope STO will be more casual player friendly and allow people to have fun without getting deeply involved with guilds or corperations and such.

For the actual gameplay I´d expect the game to be a traditional game like WoW or CoH in which you control a single individual with perhaps the option to take control of a ship for a fight.

[PyscoJuggalo]

My problem with Eve is that by focusing so much on Guilds and the enjoyment of a few Guild leaders, the rest of the player base was basically turned into Zerglings. That is all you were in Eve, a nothing grinding out your existence so some Guild big wig could become an isk trillionaire and get a Titan and huge e-peen.

In Eve you built nothing of importance, it was all zerg raiding, like you were roleplaying cannon fodder in Starcraft. In SWG you built cities and true commerce centers. In Eve you just helped disrupt supply of other guilds.



I will say this though for Eve, Eve's embracing of play styles that are grief related was a great idea and truly adds to the MMORPG genre. In eve you had real conartists, pirates, and thieves. These people in my opinion are the best Eve has to offer and it you want to enjoy Eve you will embrace their play style.

Eve gave you the ability to be a REAL villain and that is a beautiful thing in my book.


--Played Eve for about a year, got sick of the guild focus.

[antz123]

I hope not, i've never liked EVE, I hate the way you earn experience... It just isn't how a game is meant to be played in my opinion.

[Efefia]

EVE is niche, it's hated by as many people as it is loved by others, I don't see Cryptic laying out for the Star Trek license and then creating a niche game. If it's EVE II you want you'd be better served to visit CCP's site.

[relisys]

even if cryptic did take some eve stuff, it would be too bad... only thing what throws people off eve is the skills.... and not been able to have a runnable charactor these are only thing's that make eve hard and realy off butting,

i think crytpic should take eves hyperdrive idea and station ect witch it is more then likely we will see similer, also if we can have our own stations like tatical enginearing ect.... give people more choice let them help others not just be one off captin I.E eve realy is boaring some times,

but on that note, i have alot of faith in cryptic to make this game ace

[Ziegler]

EVE is niche, it's hated by as many people as it is loved by others, I don't see Cryptic laying out for the Star Trek license and then creating a niche game. If it's EVE II you want you'd be better served to visit CCP's site.

except for a couple of things....CCP is working on a WOrld of Darkness MMO with Whitewolf.


The whole thing of a CCP dev being corrupt and helping their guild means I probably wont consider them for any game they touch.

Star Trek fans tend to not be PVP oreinted players from the looks of these forums and therefore the game probably wont be too focused on it either. But we'll wait and see.

[onibocho]

What I liked most about EVE was the freedom that you could develop your charactor and in principle you could go anywhere. The game physics were phenominal as well as the grafics. The Galaxy was emense and could serve as a good example as to how to lay out the milky way galaxy in STO. But the game play in the low security areas( Which comprised the majority of the galaxy) is absolutly ruthless and the overly corp oreinted game style also tired me out real quick. Also the missions are a real grind feist. The lack of interiors also was frustrating as stairing at the outside of your ship for hours on end can get a little old as well it is hard to feel a connection with your ship.l

The truth is EVE is the best SF MMORPG on the market right now and there is some elements of it worth looking at as to what direction to take as well as what NOT to do. It is also decidedly a nich game that is still relativly successful. Helping the argument that STO leaning more toward the ST fanbase instead of a broader one is not necessarily a bad thing.

[LordDave]

Played EVE for about an hour.
It took 4 to get the blasted thing to install.
Tried it again the next day and it refused to load.


EVE was confusing, complex, and gave me the entire universe in the first 5 minutes. It was too much for me to handle.

[mezlabor]

EVE is niche, it's hated by as many people as it is loved by others, I don't see Cryptic laying out for the Star Trek license and then creating a niche game. If it's EVE II you want you'd be better served to visit CCP's site.

I think that because its a star trek game automatically makes it a niche game. And I hope they approach it that way. Id much rather they design an sto game that satisfies the Star trek fan then ruin trek to satisfy your average mmo gamer.

As for comparisons to EvE its hard. EvE is motivated by its pvp. The entire world is fixed around pvp even if your character never pvps its a good chance hes a builder or miner and your building new modules and items to replenish what the pvpers are losing from pvp.

I honestly cant see how theyd put in pvp in this game in its current sense and have it make sense within the Trek lore and yes the lore is more important then the pvpers who demand to be able to grief noobs. The Federation and the Klingons are allied they arent going to go around and blow up each others ships whenever the whim strikes them the Federation wont tolerate the Empire wont either. Its a little more feasible with the klingons since their power structure is looser and given towards inter-faction violence.

With pvp being the primary motivator behind the eve economy and the eve economy driving the game its hard to say sto will be an eve 2

[USS_Parallax]

I played EVE for a time. It's too complex for my tastes. I usually love complex games but it's complex to the point of insanity. You've got to learn a ridiculous amount of crap to effectively play the game. Travel takes far too long. The game is too unforgiving (be insured OR ELSE). Heck when you respawn you're a clone and not even the real you...

[SirBismuth]

/OOC On


The whole thing of a CCP dev being corrupt and helping their corp means I probably wont consider them for any game they touch.


Heck, I think this happened ages ago, if what I read on the EVE forums is correct. A more exciting story was a couple of players stealing 700bil ISK from their alliance, and then being dumb enough to try to sell it on Ebay. I don't think they got away with that, but they may still have some of it ingame.

Played EVE for about an hour.


Heh, you won't even finish the tutorial in in an hour, much less get any idea of the game.

I played EVE for a time. It's too complex for my tastes. I usually love complex games but it's complex to the point of insanity. You've got to learn a ridiculous amount of crap to effectively play the game. Travel takes far too long. The game is too unforgiving (be insured OR ELSE). Heck when you respawn you're a clone and not even the real you...

Hey, it's not that easy to end up in your clone bay, your pod is quick, and used intelligently, you can get away easily. Stargates move you hundreds of AU in seconds, what exactly is slow about that?. You are not obliged to take out insurance in EVE, but it is highly recommended, unless your wallet can handle it. Anyway, you don't have to get blown up every day if that isn't your taste, the fighter/pirate career isn't the only on available to you.

EVE is an MMO with an incredible amount of depth, and while it is complex, it isn't insanely so, IMO.

But, it is interesting to see all the different viewpoints on these forums. I hope that Cryptic will be able to make most of us happy.

AB
/OOC Off


...We are Borg...

Whether you are Caldari or Romulan, you will be assimilated

Resistance is futile!

What is that burning smell?

[Allardyn]

it is not going to be like eve. an I see that as a good thing no game should be like another like alot of mmos now rey to copy wow.

love this statement, copy WoW eh?

and who do you think WoW copied? Or right they totally invented the fantasy genre. NOT!

[Jenkl]

EvE is too hardcore an MMO to mold a game like STO that will be aiming to get a much MUCH wider audience.

[Awarkle]

i dont agree with eve style leveling i do think it should be skill based how the original star wars galaxies was. You do somthing you get a skill point you do a lot of the same thing you get to specialise further up the tree.

I do not wish to see a leveling system that favours someone who starts from the very beginning of a game and plays it 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

I do not want to spend 6 hours traveling somewhere to spend 30 seconds dying.

I want to be able to come home from work log on and DO somthing not spend hours lfg because your not class x y z, spend hours traveling to another part of the game for no specific reason or for a quest that has forced you down that route. Or where all the action seems to have ended up.

i would like a game that ok doesnt take hours and isnt instant teleport but 5 mins or 10 mins to travel the lenght of the game should be feasble, unless they give us somthing to do while we are traveling to said destination.

Game should be fun not boring.

[LordDave]

Heh, you won't even finish the tutorial in in an hour, much less get any idea of the game.


I learned how horribly complex it is. And that it likes to not work. After, literally 3 download attempts I got it working then, after my first hour of play, it never worked again.
And yes, I did try. Even the original install EXE was corrupted. I even did a full scan on the drive, nothing.

[Ransom]

I do undertand to OP's comment and I agree to a certain degree but I think most people, including myself, use other games sometimes as a reference to other players. It would be hard to type out the definition of a skill box advancement system but using SWG as a reference is helpful. I do think everyone here has a favorite game and they want their favorite elements in STO. I understand feeling like people want to make it STOHammer or STOGalaxies or STO UoW and I think some do but I hope this game is similar and different to all of them. Cryptic should look at what some comapnies have done and see the potholes NOT to step in. I do hope this STO will not be a clone of anything.

[Strafae]

The Old SWG skill system was superior, I have yet to see another game match they way it was. That being said after reading this:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=3749

I can say that if Cryptic takes a few notes from this, STO will be a name unto itself.

[NeoWolf]

You obviously don't understand the Eve universe. PVP can be virtually nonexistent if you choose to take up any of the MANY professions that have minimal exposure to combat.

Actually that couldnt be further from he truth. I spent 2 and a half years playing Eve and commonly had deaings with some of the largest player run corps in the game (BoB for example)., I think its safe o say I was/am very well versed in the Eve universe. However the fact remains thier are many of the more interesting aspects of the game (high end crafting, exploration, base bulding etc.. that simply cannot be done without being forced to go low sec and thus be forced to deal with constant griefing and pvp activities whether your interested (or like me) not in PVP at all. Which si essentially why I stopped my subscription to that game.

I do not object to PVP I just dont agree with any game that forces it on you whether you want it or not.

And yes there are certain ways around it to a point, for example I had arrangements with a lot of BoB members whereby I paid them a % of my mined cargo in exchange for them effectively "ignoring" my presence in thier patrolled asteroid belts.. but even that doesnt garuntee someone else wont just come along and blow the crap out of you for thier own jollies.

So no, I know the EVE 'verse very well thanks :) and nope id prefer for my own preferences that STO didnt force PVP on the PVE crowd, by having it obligatory in order order to experience certain aspects of the game that would be needed by ALL players pve or pvp, but instead make PVP a choice, so that those who want to "Can" and those who dont "Dont have to" but can still experience all the game just fine without it being an issue.

[Grady98]

Hi all - This is my first post here so...go easy. :)

At any rate -
REALLY looking fwd. to a Star Trek game that I can enjoy. (Beside ST:BOTF for any of you who know that game). This game seems to be spot on and I say that because for the past few months I have been playing another MMORPG (my first serious one where I broke down and bought a subscrip) called EVE online. Many of you SCI-FI lovers like myself might know of it. It is a great space game that runs realistic "economies", career development, starship battle simulations, etc. I love EVE because it is replayable and so expansive that it keeps you coming back for more. It is tough but not insurmountable giving developers new time to keep adding to the game. Star Trek being so diverse though, I can't imagine how awesome it is going to be over time as it develops in Online format. At any rate as I was reading all about ST Online and watching the video's the first thing that came to mind was that ST Online is really nailing the good about EVE and then taking it a step further by allowing players to walk around first person. (Something I have often thought EVE might try but hasn't). From seeing all that and knowing what I know about EVE, this game sounds like it is on the right path and kudos to Cryptic.

EVE has developed a devoted following, ST already has one. My hope/thinkjng is ST Online is set to do both brilliantly. If any of you are EVE players it would be great to hear your thoughts about the comparrison; any Cryptic Developers especially. I think there a right and a wrong way to do a MMORPG and would love to hear more from other forum readers as to their experience with other MMORPGs and how it relates to ST Online. Was EVE an influence? Do any of the Cryptic folk hang with the EVE guys?

Cheers -

Grady

[mezlabor]

Hi all - This is my first post here so...go easy. :)

At any rate -
REALLY looking fwd. to a Star Trek game that I can enjoy. (Beside ST:BOTF for any of you who know that game). This game seems to be spot on and I say that because for the past few months I have been playing another MMORPG (my first serious one where I broke down and bought a subscrip) called EVE online. Many of you SCI-FI lovers like myself might know of it. It is a great space game that runs realistic "economies", career development, starship battle simulations, etc. I love EVE because it is replayable and so expansive that it keeps you coming back for more. It is tough but not insurmountable giving developers new time to keep adding to the game. Star Trek being so diverse though, I can't imagine how awesome it is going to be over time as it develops in Online format. At any rate as I was reading all about ST Online and watching the video's the first thing that came to mind was that ST Online is really nailing the good about EVE and then taking it a step further by allowing players to walk around first person. (Something I have often thought EVE might try but hasn't). From seeing all that and knowing what I know about EVE, this game sounds like it is on the right path and kudos to Cryptic.

EVE has developed a devoted following, ST already has one. My hope/thinkjng is ST Online is set to do both brilliantly. If any of you are EVE players it would be great to hear your thoughts about the comparrison; any Cryptic Developers especially. I think there a right and a wrong way to do a MMORPG and would love to hear more from other forum readers as to their experience with other MMORPGs and how it relates to ST Online. Was EVE an influence? Do any of the Cryptic folk hang with the EVE guys?

Cheers -

Grady
I used to play eve. I think this game is moving in different direction from eve. EvE at its core is a pvp game. STO wont have the same level of open free pvp that eve has.

[wolann]

eve-online is dead and i am happy to see a new space game coming out. i played eve when it first came out and stoppped after they started nurfing everything to hell. but if they stick to the star trek role and not change to much then this will blow eve away hands down.

[mezlabor]

eve-online is dead and i am happy to see a new space game coming out. i played eve when it first came out and stoppped after they started nurfing everything to hell. but if they stick to the star trek role and not change to much then this will blow eve away hands down.

I wouldnt say its dead from what Ive seen it still has an active and loyal fanbase. I didnt really like it.

[ReynoldsXD]

eve-online is dead and i am happy to see a new space game coming out. i played eve when it first came out and stoppped after they started nurfing everything to hell. but if they stick to the star trek role and not change to much then this will blow eve away hands down.


There are 30+k people online every evening so dead isnt exactly right.

And ill play it until sto comes out. if sto is good i might even quit eve.

[AbaddonIX]

eve-online is dead and i am happy to see a new space game coming out. i played eve when it first came out and stoppped after they started nurfing everything to hell. but if they stick to the star trek role and not change to much then this will blow eve away hands down.

Troll,nothing to see here folks.

Anyway,we dont realy know much about gameplay on STO atm,and I doubt it will be the same as EVE,since you probably dont have alot of fitting options and such.

Also EVE devs have being working on a expansion for some time that let's you walk on space stations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abMEVENz1jQ

[ChaosDragun]

I used to play Eve and I believe it was and still is a good game. My only beef with Eve was the peramanent ship loss (which for a casual player losing certain ships was a big blow) and the fact that there was no first person content in any way, shape, or form. Now if STO takes what Eve has (minus the open PvP of course) and adds a bunch of first person content, which I believe they have or are adding, this will be a great game.

[KXSwa]

I've been playing EVE Online for about 2 years, and by no means am I an expert.

But, EVE is already planning to add a 1st person perspective to the game by allowing players to explore stations and whatnot. I remember them saying, once the expansion is live, it'll require players to re-design their avatar if they wish to exit their ship/pod to explore stations and whatnot.

I also remember reading that player run corporations may be able to buy/rent offices at the station, so players can meet in a room, etc.

It's been in development for quite some time already actually, I don't remember the proposed release date; I think it's roughly still 6-12 months out. Combat isn't planned for EVE's first release of that expansion.

But yeah, in some ways STO will take EVE's gameplay a step further, but in others, it will take a step back. For example, planets & ships will be explorable in STO; but I highly doubt STO's ships will be nearly as customizable or the overall system will be as complex.

But they are entirely different games, and my joy of one will not effect the other; regardless of subscription status to either. if that makes any sense, lol.

[Desterion]

I've been playing EVE Online for about 2 years, and by no means am I an expert.

But, EVE is already planning to add a 1st person perspective to the game by allowing players to explore stations and whatnot. I remember them saying, once the expansion is live, it'll require players to re-design their avatar if they wish to exit their ship/pod to explore stations and whatnot.

I also remember reading that player run corporations may be able to buy/rent offices at the station, so players can meet in a room, etc.

It's been in development for quite some time already actually, I don't remember the proposed release date; I think it's roughly still 6-12 months out. Combat isn't planned for EVE's first release of that expansion.


That's something that should have been in eve years ago. But I think the further they stay away from eve designs the better.

[ChaosDragun]

Sorry posted in the wrong thread.

[BlitzPig_EL]

If STO plays like EVE I'm out.

Simple as that.

[mezlabor]

If STO plays like EVE I'm out.

Simple as that.

I think alot of us feel that way

[stang]

30k population is nothing... daoc is lucky to push 5k worldwide. There arn't many servers left so it doesn't effect the game that much, but when playing off peak times it can be pretty tough to find ANYTHING pvp or pve/quests.

[Durakken]

The major problem with EVE is that it gives you all this stuff that effects you to figure out that makes you need to be engineer or scientist to figure out how it all works without really any sort of explanation of it. It is by the worst learning curve in a game i have ever come across. But assuming you get by that it has this other huge problem with it's skills where if you were say playing at launch vs someone that is new the older character will always have the advantage no matter what as long as they log in to change & set their skills. Even if the newer player has more play time or more experience or is smarter it really doesn't make a difference and i hope that both of these problem are not in STO.

The next big problem of EVE is that it is largely combat oriented and that's not a bad thing, but with the mechanics of the game all your doing is shooting at little crosses and boxes and that's not at all interesting to me, all the missions were meh at best and that leaves mining which takes forever and is incredibly boring.

Then on top of all that there is almost no visual customization. Your ship is your body and apparently noone has any creativity in that galaxy v.v

I'm not saying EVEs a bad game but there are a lot of bad in it that i hope is not implemented in any way in STO

[AbaddonIX]

I doubt STO will even be remotetly as EVE,soo all of you can rest assured.EVE is a PVP Centered Sandbox,from what I understand STO will go a PVE with PVP linear like progress.

[Ptahk]

I guess its inevitable that sto will be compared with eve, a few threads here are doing exactly that. Personally I hope it turns out to be nothing like eve. What i am saying is that we already have eve, why copy it? Its a done game, some like it, some don't. Let sto be something different, something new to mmog's. :D

[Druix]

Ive been playing eve since 2005 and was hooked right away, I dissagree Durakken you do not need all the skill points as the ones who have been there since beta to be able to play like them, learn the basic skills, get with a decent corp / alliance...

I myself think eve is starting to fade, with the not so great support system when you have a problem, the addition of new content, ships, ect... and ignoring or not looking to hard into some of the bugs, some gm's favortism with a certain alliance, they also went and screewed up the monthly payment system, all of this will just boil down to losing customers...

I've always been a trek fan, so I for one am looking forward to ST: O to be released, so far what I've heard, read and seen... the game looks like it will be awesome...

[ReynoldsXD]

That's something that should have been in eve years ago. But I think the further they stay away from eve designs the better.


no. years ago they needed all their time to actualy make eve playable ;)

And i agree, EVE and STO are fundamentaly different, gameplay wise.
Eve is about Economy mongering. Make money.

Of course the way to make money are quite diverse, ranging fro mtrade to industrialism to mercenarydom to grinding npc to scamming other people or outright piracy theft and ramson.

And then theres ganking. Eve is for the hardcore crowd, i hope sto will take a less.... time consuming approach.

[ngille]

I guess its inevitable that sto will be compared with eve, a few threads here are doing exactly that. Personally I hope it turns out to be nothing like eve. What i am saying is that we already have eve, why copy it? Its a done game, some like it, some don't. Let sto be something different, something new to mmog's. :D

Probably because Jack mentioned EVE online several times during the webcast. For one they are wanting to use the single server idea from EVE.

I know a lot of folks didn't like the time based skill system of EVE, but to be honest that was one thing I really loved about EVE. That and the corporations, a far cry from wow, where a guild is little more than a glorified chat channel.

Oh something else that Jack mentioned in the webcast. Guilds/fleets won't be exactly like EVE corporations but will be simular.

They've admitted to taking two ideas from eve, that generates a lot of speculation that more ideas might come from eve.

I have high hopes and expectations for STO so whatever they decide I'll try it (as long as they stay away from open and non consensual pvp which I think they will)

[Lendosan]

When I see some of the posts in here, it makes me wonder...
"Why did you join the STO forums if all you have to say is Negative stuff regarding the game?"

At first I was skeptical regarding STO, but now Im converted. If STO plays like Eve, so what? Its STAR TREK online, not EVE online. There will be a ton of ships unlike Eves limited class of vessels. There will be an FPS/RPGFPS style of gameplay to STO, unlike Eve.

STO will s**t all over Eve, so lets not put anymore negative comments please people!
Thanks :D

(P.s. This does not impede on your ability to have an opinion. However it is of my opinion that your opinion sucks and therefore my opinion should be the only opinion people should read. Thanks) ;):D:rolleyes:

[ngille]

(P.s. This does not impede on your ability to have an opinion. However it is of my opinion that your opinion sucks and therefore my opinion should be the only opinion people should read. Thanks) ;):D:rolleyes:

I damn near put that as my sig after reading it lol

[ExAstris]

Things STO should do like EVE (no particular order) -

1. Ship loadout customizability
2. Complex combat mechanics (and even non-combat mechanics as well)
3. Larger ships have the slow lumbering feeling to their movement
4. Heavy player organization support (corporations, fleets, etc)
5. Skill system (I would say everything, but some might just want the skill base and not the real time part)
6. Vast universe
7. Excellent crafting systems and economic support

Things STO should not do like EVE -

1. Open pvp everywhere
2. Harsh death penalty
3. Ships only, no 'person' (it doesn't bother me, but it does bother others)

Things STO should consider because EVE tried them -

1. The more complex a game is, the harder it is to learn to play. Many people who quit EVE before their trial is up, never understood the game to begin with.
2. One server results in a fantastically unified universe, but causes lag in populated areas and at peak hours. If STO's tech isn't way ahead of EVE's (which has the most powerful MMO supercomputer on Earth afaik) and STO garners a million subscribers intead of 250k, this could become a huge problem very quickly.
3. Time based skill trianing is glorious for casual players and excellent for balance, but can be a huge turn off to anyone in the 'powergamer' category as you can only grind for money for better stuff not skills.


Almost 2 years on EVE for me. No game is perfect, and EVE is no exception, but its got far more of what I want in a game than the competition. It sounds like STO is steering away from all of EVE's pitfalls that I listed, and towards at least some of its virtues. Huzzah!

[sokolov]

It seems most of us have played EvE at one point or another.

One of the things about EvE is that depending on how long you played, and how you actually chose to play can have a great effect on how your experience with that game is. The fact is, EvE really features multiple distinct games in a way - for example, playing in 0.0 vs playing in empire space has a dramatic effect on your gameplay experience even before taking into account anything else.

EvE is also something that is going to be brought up again and again whenever an MMO Sci-Fi game is brought up simply because it's really the first successful iteration (and we might even say the only one, depending on how we define Sci-Fi) of the genre.

EvE certainly does a lot of things right. Someone mentioned permanent ship death being a problem in the game, but I think that mechanic actually plays directly into the economic model of the game - without permanent loss of material from the world, the economic model in EvE crumbles. It does not sound like ST:O will be based on that model, but I don't think it makes EvE wrong for doing it that way.

Anyway, I am excited about ST:O, and I am sure the developers of this game are aware of EvE and hopefully they have taken what they deem valuable to helping them make ST:O a fun and unique experience for all of us.

[ngille]

It seems most of us have played EvE at one point or another.

One of the things about EvE is that depending on how long you played, and how you actually chose to play can have a great effect on how your experience with that game is. The fact is, EvE really features multiple distinct games in a way - for example, playing in 0.0 vs playing in empire space has a dramatic effect on your gameplay experience even before taking into account anything else.

EvE is also something that is going to be brought up again and again whenever an MMO Sci-Fi game is brought up simply because it's really the first successful iteration (and we might even say the only one, depending on how we define Sci-Fi) of the genre.

EvE certainly does a lot of things right. Someone mentioned permanent ship death being a problem in the game, but I think that mechanic actually plays directly into the economic model of the game - without permanent loss of material from the world, the economic model in EvE crumbles. It does not sound like ST:O will be based on that model, but I don't think it makes EvE wrong for doing it that way.

Anyway, I am excited about ST:O, and I am sure the developers of this game are aware of EvE and hopefully they have taken what they deem valuable to helping them make ST:O a fun and unique experience for all of us.

EVE has been mentioned mostly because Jack himself has compared STO to EVE in the live webcast they released earlier this week.

To be honest, what eve did well was done VERY well, but the parts that I didn't like were game breaking. I am of the camp that hopes they take the good stuff from eve and mix it with their own ideas to put a unique spin on it.

I am most excited about Jack saying fleets in STO are going to be SIMULAR to corporations in EVE. Well that and the single server and no levels. Also hoping for a time based system like in eve.

[Deadzone]

I see a lot of people saying how the skill system sucks in EVE.

If you actually think about WHY the skill system is setup that way, it makes perfect sense.

It was stated in development ( I go back to beta 4 in EVE) that the skill system is time based for several reasons.
1) IT gives people the ability to train skills OFFLINE as well as online. You don't need to be logged in like EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO out there to advance your character. Talk about not being a MMO clone just like all the other guys!

2) It controls the PACE of the game advancement. You know for a fact that no player will be able to pilot a Carrier for X months, X days, X hours, X mins. This way you don't have people racing up the skill tree and flying uber stuff 10 or 15 days after release. It is a complete way to control game advancement. And YES- the time scales are pretty big for EVE. But who is to say that Cryptic cant use similar type of skill advancement system but just not have the insane time scales EVE does? That pretty much nullifies most people arguments right there.

UNLESS of course you are a power-leveler and you want to be the first at lvl 80 and think you are the king or something...which is the smell I get from some of the posters here who whine about a system like this....

3) It completely STOPS power-leveling- PERIOD. And that in and by itsself is the best reason to use a system like this!! If you want to be mister uber god and get from lvl 1-80 in 2 days, then I would REALLY LIKE to think STO isn't for you!!

As for the PVP aspect, yea, EVE is hardcore and I wouldn't want to see that here either. But a system similar...having Safe space= Empire faction space, medium security space= maybe outter Empire systems/worlds where those Empires still control the space but far fewer ships around to "police" the areas, and then low-security= neutral zones or law-less space. And this take on it fits perfectly into the ST Canon.

Everyone gets their space and all sides are happy. But all players beware. If you fly into a med-sec or low-sec areas, you better know you might be a target of a PVPer. Med-sec space might be agreeable PVP but low-sec would most definatly be... if someone wants, you are their target. Just be ready for anything if you decide to venture there.

[mezlabor]

Things STO should do like EVE (no particular order) -

1. Ship loadout customizability
2. Complex combat mechanics (and even non-combat mechanics as well)
3. Larger ships have the slow lumbering feeling to their movement
4. Heavy player organization support (corporations, fleets, etc)
5. Skill system (I would say everything, but some might just want the skill base and not the real time part)
6. Vast universe
7. Excellent crafting systems and economic support

Things STO should not do like EVE -

1. Open pvp everywhere
2. Harsh death penalty
3. Ships only, no 'person' (it doesn't bother me, but it does bother others)

Things STO should consider because EVE tried them -

1. The more complex a game is, the harder it is to learn to play. Many people who quit EVE before their trial is up, never understood the game to begin with.
2. One server results in a fantastically unified universe, but causes lag in populated areas and at peak hours. If STO's tech isn't way ahead of EVE's (which has the most powerful MMO supercomputer on Earth afaik) and STO garners a million subscribers intead of 250k, this could become a huge problem very quickly.
3. Time based skill trianing is glorious for casual players and excellent for balance, but can be a huge turn off to anyone in the 'powergamer' category as you can only grind for money for better stuff not skills.


Almost 2 years on EVE for me. No game is perfect, and EVE is no exception, but its got far more of what I want in a game than the competition. It sounds like STO is steering away from all of EVE's pitfalls that I listed, and towards at least some of its virtues. Huzzah!
I agree with much of what you said except for this

3. Larger ships have the slow lumbering feeling to their movement The intrepid would be a cruiser in eves standards but its the fastest ship in the federation. The Soverign is capable of reaching warp 9.9 making it as fast as the Intrepid but not able to sustain such high warp speeds.

Even the large federation ships are fast and fairly nimble compared to eve battleships

(i played eve for about 6 months or so before the relentless neverending griefing drove me off that game)

[Q_Who]

Maybe I haven't looked into EVE enough, but I think it looks like a terribly limited and storyless game.

[mezlabor]

I see a lot of people saying how the skill system sucks in EVE.

If you actually think about WHY the skill system is setup that way, it makes perfect sense.

It was stated in development ( I go back to beta 4 in EVE) that the skill system is time based for several reasons.
1) IT gives people the ability to train skills OFFLINE as well as online. You don't need to be logged in like EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO out there to advance your character. Talk about not being a MMO clone just like all the other guys!

2) It controls the PACE of the game advancement. You know for a fact that no player will be able to pilot a Carrier for X months, X days, X hours, X mins. This way you don't have people racing up the skill tree and flying uber stuff 10 or 15 days after release. It is a complete way to control game advancement. And YES- the time scales are pretty big for EVE. But who is to say that Cryptic cant use similar type of skill advancement system but just not have the insane time scales EVE does? That pretty much nullifies most people arguments right there.

UNLESS of course you are a power-leveler and you want to be the first at lvl 80 and think you are the king or something...which is the smell I get from some of the posters here who whine about a system like this....

3) It completely STOPS power-leveling- PERIOD. And that in and by itsself is the best reason to use a system like this!! If you want to be mister uber god and get from lvl 1-80 in 2 days, then I would REALLY LIKE to think STO isn't for you!!

I agree with you here I always felt the skill system was great in eve. Long winded but a good idea. I would be happy to see a similair system in sto withotu the week long training times

As for the PVP aspect, yea, EVE is hardcore and I wouldn't want to see that here either. But a system similar...having Safe space= Empire faction space, medium security space= maybe outter Empire systems/worlds where those Empires still control the space but far fewer ships around to "police" the areas, and then low-security= neutral zones or law-less space. And this take on it fits perfectly into the ST Canon.

Everyone gets their space and all sides are happy. But all players beware. If you fly into a med-sec or low-sec areas, you better know you might be a target of a PVPer. Med-sec space might be agreeable PVP but low-sec would most definatly be... if someone wants, you are their target. Just be ready for anything if you decide to venture there.

Not quite its close but the Neutral zone isnt lawless. Its defined by very rigid law. Neither faction can enter the Neutral zone without risking war. Entering the Neutral one is always a breach of protocol, and often seen as a provocative or all out act of war or agression.

I really do want to see them leave EvEs pvp system alone. The relentless ganking drove me off that game along time ago.

[ngille]

I

As for the PVP aspect, yea, EVE is hardcore and I wouldn't want to see that here either. But a system similar...having Safe space= Empire faction space, medium security space= maybe outter Empire systems/worlds where those Empires still control the space but far fewer ships around to "police" the areas, and then low-security= neutral zones or law-less space. And this take on it fits perfectly into the ST Canon.

Everyone gets their space and all sides are happy. But all players beware. If you fly into a med-sec or low-sec areas, you better know you might be a target of a PVPer. Med-sec space might be agreeable PVP but low-sec would most definatly be... if someone wants, you are their target. Just be ready for anything if you decide to venture there.

That was the number 1 thing that killed EVE for me. Don't tell me that I can't go to most of the content in a game because joe schmoe and hit 20 buddies are gonna pod me.

If they have any pvp zones, even faction based, it should be just one or two and leave the rest of the areas for pve.

Yes I know I just ticked off every single pvper out there but that's okay, I'm not a pvper, I do it occasionally but only when I start to get bored.

[sokolov]

EVE has been mentioned mostly because Jack himself has compared STO to EVE in the live webcast they released earlier this week.

To be honest, what eve did well was done VERY well, but the parts that I didn't like were game breaking. I am of the camp that hopes they take the good stuff from eve and mix it with their own ideas to put a unique spin on it.

I am most excited about Jack saying fleets in STO are going to be SIMULAR to corporations in EVE. Well that and the single server and no levels. Also hoping for a time based system like in eve.

From what I recall, the mention of EvE was not from Jack himself originally, but during the Q&A.

I do agree that it will be very nice if ST:O's fleet management tools allow for the same level of interactivity as Corporations in EvE (though hopefully less clunky). Some games have been horrible in terms of the tools they provide for guilds/groups - for example, when D&D Online launched, you could not have spaces in your guild's name, and the guild message of the day tool was broken. Based on what Jack said about the community, though, I am optimistic they will good "guild" tools in place at launch and it won't be an afterthought, especially if fleet co-operation is going to be vital to access certain game areas.

[sokolov]

Maybe I haven't looked into EVE enough, but I think it looks like a terribly limited and storyless game.

The "story" of EvE is certainly not a big draw, but it is there. Limited interaction with the background lore and lack of relevance to actual gameplay do hinder it's overall impact on the game.

What is striking about EvE though is that the players, themselves, create the stories. For anyone who has played long enough, you know about the political intrigue, the espionage, the fueds and rivalries between Corps and Alliances. My own experience involved a mutiny as part of one Corp's military wing led by the Military CO who had the loyalty of the whole wing. We seized the assets of the Corp, and took off and joined an Alliance as a specialized task force. While our overall impact to the political fabric was minimal, it certainly felt larger than life to me as a player. And having played dozens of online games... I have to say, you don't get experiences like that anywhere else.

And the stories that reverberate through the community about how such and such a player did this and that, or how that Alliance is collapsing in of itself. EvE didn't need a story, the players created it.

[drewage22]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

Scanners are picking up a subspace message with blatant absence of key words, punctuation, and sentence structure. We have no idea what the message is trying to communicate. Perhaps it's a distress signal.

Sadly, we're too late, the Temporal Prime Directive prohibits us from any further action.

[mezlabor]

That was the number 1 thing that killed EVE for me. Don't tell me that I can't go to most of the content in a game because joe schmoe and hit 20 buddies are gonna pod me.

If they have any pvp zones, even faction based, it should be just one or two and leave the rest of the areas for pve.

Yes I know I just ticked off every single pvper out there but that's okay, I'm not a pvper, I do it occasionally but only when I start to get bored.

Im with you on this one. I dont think large portions of the game should be off limits to people who dont want to pvp

[sokolov]

Sadly, we're too late, the Temporal Prime Directive prohibits us from any further action.

No timeships in 2409 yet anyway, I imagine!

[sokolov]

Im with you on this one. I dont think large portions of the game should be off limits to people who dont want to pvp

Luckily, in EvE online, being a PvP driven game,most of that area is not relevant to a non-PvPer anyway, it's just more stars, planets, and asteriods. Sure, the ore there was more valuable, but you don't need that material if you aren't PvPing anyway. In fact, for a non-PvP player of EvE, there is actually far more to do in Empire space than the areas where PvP happen. Even if there was no one waiting to kill you, you'd probably have little reason to go there in the first place.

I am not saying that makes it the "best" or "better" model, I am just saying that's how it was designed - with PvP in mind. So it's understandable that it's not for everyone, but that doesn't make the developers wrong for doing it either.

~

Anyway, doesn't sound like that will be the case in ST:O though, which is cool too, and I'd have to say this "Infinite Exploration" thing has me very intrigued!

[ngille]

From what I recall, the mention of EvE was not from Jack himself originally, but during the Q&A.

I do agree that it will be very nice if ST:O's fleet management tools allow for the same level of interactivity as Corporations in EvE (though hopefully less clunky). Some games have been horrible in terms of the tools they provide for guilds/groups - for example, when D&D Online launched, you could not have spaces in your guild's name, and the guild message of the day tool was broken. Based on what Jack said about the community, though, I am optimistic they will good "guild" tools in place at launch and it won't be an afterthought, especially if fleet co-operation is going to be vital to access certain game areas.


Aye, it was during the question and answer section but it was his words that stated they wanted something simular to eve corporations for guilds.

It was also stated both in the web cast and the HF interview that they wanted to do the single server thing from eve (obviously not a quote)

[djnattyd]

Jsut thought id stick my oar in and comment. To be honest Eve was and still is the only MMORPG i play, never got into the others as Elves and Orcs and the like aren't really my thing, saw SWG and let it pass me by like the big steaming pile of dog poo-poo that it was. I hope ST:O isn't a straight clone of Eve, as it is flawed in several areas such as exp. and the whole PvP owned before i even saw them thing but it has got a massive fanbase so Cryptic are undoubtably going to look at some concepts that work in the Eve universe such as the fleets/corporations, the size of the playing area and probably trading in some shape or form. All games devs have taken ideas from one game or another since the beginning of time (BEGINNING OF TIME=PONG), added their own ideas and style and put it in a shiny new wrapper. For example; FPS games are all the same as Doom regardless of who made them, but with little extras added on, RTS games are geneticaly modified C&Cs and Beat-em ups are wannabe Street Fighters. I have faith that the boys and girls at CS can deliver the best Star Trek game of all time and make it something that Gene and Majel Roddenberry would be proud of.


-------------------------------------------
"I CANN'AE DO IT CAP'N, I DON'T HAVE THE POWER!"

[Kipper]

Sorry, but I just have to rant a bit.

I'm kind of tired of reading about people who argue that "It should be like EvE - that had a really good feature for doing [Insert game mechanism here]..." It seems like just because the settings for the two games are the same - space - some people feel that ST:O should basicly be an upgraded version of EvE. For me, EvE and ST:O is two very different games and shoudn't be anything like the same. Just because EvE is the only fairly succesfull space MMO doesn't mean it's done right!

I would hate if Cryctic isn't more innovation about a game like ST:O then they would basicly just cut'n'pate features from another game. That includes - well, just about any feature on EvE: Skill Gain, 10+ ships in the hanger, 1 player = 1 any size ship, massive focus on PvP, High focus on loot and money, and so on...

Insted of saying "I want that feature from EvE", I really think people should say "Amaze me with a new way of doing it - make ST:O unique!".

ST:O isn't EvE and I very much hope it wont be EvE II either.

There .. My rant is over .. Let the universal peace and love thingy flow over us again... Except if you are Borg - then you are allowed one green "Resistance is futile"-post. :p

I have just started playing Eve, and I believe that ST:O should be a calmer affair, with less of a focus on combat as you've said.

[Debaser]

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These people make me sick.:mad:

[Napalm006]

These people make me sick.:mad:

To barrow a quote from B5, I'd love to space them. As we speak Im playing some Eve. Its a fantastic game one that can cater to casual and hardcore alike. As Ive said in other threads, we need to look at what works in Eve and think about how it can be improved and if it fits into Cryptic's design schemes. Then we should look to implement it, but make no mistake. I want STO to be something bigger and grander then Eve is full of new concepts and experience we have not seen in a MMO.

[HamishUK]

If STO plays like EVE I'm out.

Simple as that.

Shutup El. You enjoyed Eve with us and you will enjoy being my Klingon patsy too! :D

[OddjobXL]

Eve is From Mars, STO is From Venus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/OddjobXL/032009/3567_Eve-Is-From-Mars-STO-Is-From-Venus)

Nice necro, BTW, Hamish. :)

[Hagon]

Really when describing STO as "mostly a PvE game", I'm not sure if OddjobXL just doesn't understand a lot of things about STO yet, or if it's more a case of "If I say it enough it will come to be".

I guess that the many many fleets on both sides that are just itching to get at the faction vs faction, and have been since the day the game was announced, are just crazy. Never mind that article after article, interview after interview, Q&A after Q&A, has been pumping up that faction vs faction play (both competitive PvE and PvP wise) as something that's going to be a core element of the game.

I guess as well that even though the devs keep talking about all the PvP they're doing as they test the game, we should just assume that they're going to want us to ignore that content when the game is rleased. :rolleyes:

[lokan]

Really when describing STO as "mostly a PvE game", I'm not sure if OddjobXL just doesn't understand a lot of things about STO yet, or if it's more a case of "If I say it enough it will come to be".

I guess that the many many fleets on both sides that are just itching to get at the faction vs faction, and have been since the day the game was announced, are just crazy. Never mind that article after article, interview after interview, Q&A after Q&A, has been pumping up that faction vs faction play (both competitive PvE and PvP wise) as something that's going to be a core element of the game.

I guess as well that even though the devs keep talking about all the PvP they're doing as they test the game, we should just assume that they're going to want us to ignore that content when the game is rleased. :rolleyes:


Given what they've said about how PVP is going to work thus far, it's fair to say STO will be overwhelmingly focused on PVE, It looks like PVP is more something to do when your bored and want to kill some time without actually accomplishing...anything. :p

[Hagon]

Given what they've said about how PVP is going to work thus far, it's fair to say STO will be overwhelmingly focused on PVE, It looks like PVP is more something to do when your bored and want to kill some time without actually accomplishing...anything. :pNothing could be further from the truth imo. Although it's definitely not going to be a "PvP game", it isn't going to be just a "PvE game" either. It's going to encourage players to be competitive faction vs faction wise, and will facilitate and encourage PvP happening a lot. As much as the players that take part want anyway.

Much of the game is going to revolve around the goings on within the Neutral Zone. That's where many of the vital resources and other things we will need will be located. Within the Neutral Zone it will be all about competing with the enemy to gain control or influence over objectives to gain access to these much needed things. Players will choose to compete over them via competitive PvE or PvP. Then there'll be all of the outlying open PvP regions.

So there's going to be plenty of PvP going on for those that want to do it. More than plenty.

There's a whole whack of players within a whole whack of fleets already formed (and I do mean a whole whack) that are chomping at the bit to get at the faction vs faction conflict as a matter of fact. With more and more people coming to follow the game and being interested in it all the time. These people aren't going away.

[OddjobXL]

Really when describing STO as "mostly a PvE game", I'm not sure if OddjobXL just doesn't understand a lot of things about STO yet, or if it's more a case of "If I say it enough it will come to be".

Oh, I know you are but what am I? :p

Let's just look at the last few news blasts, shall we?

One deals exclusively with NPC crews and the writing for Episodic Content.

Then you have this from Epic Battle Axe:

EBA: The folks behind the upcoming Star Wars MMO tout an enormous story (and the ability to interact with it) as a major selling point for the game. What is the major selling point for STO?

CZ: I think that the selling point would line up with our core goal. We want to provide a Star Trek experience.

In addition to that are Cryptic's unprecedented commitment to customization, content that is story-driven and takes you to space, on planets and inside space stations and starships, exploring a galaxy, tactical starship combat ….

Maybe I’m too close to the project to give you only one reason why I want to play the game. : )

EBA: Obviously, the MMO space is a pretty competitive one...What do you think it is about a Star Trek-themed game that will attract new users and perhaps cause some cross over from other MMOs?

CZ: We have the Star Trek Universe, which means we have more than 40 years of amazing stories to use as a base for our content. I think that gives us an edge right there.

Star Trek is a cultural icon. Almost everyone is at least familiar with it. And honestly – who hasn't imagined what it would be like to be the captain of a starship at least once?

But STO is more than that. We have exploration, adventure, crafting, an economy … the list just goes on and on!

So take all of that and remember that Cryptic has a proven track record of making fun, successful games. I think that should give users enough of a reason to consider STO.

Where, what? Is there PvP in this game? Is there realm vs. realm? We better get that confirmed!

Then we have the interview at The Vault:
http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249

The only mention in the whole thing of PvP is one question and answer involving "Indirect PvP." That may be the Realm vs. Realm you're into but it's not really PvP is it? And it certainly doesn't seem to be anything like a preoccupation of the devs or the players here.

Then there's the Ten Ton Hammer interview here:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/66095

While there's discussion of general combat and how crew or ship builds factor in they could be talking about PvE Episodic or Duty Missions. There's no mention of Realm vs. Realm or PvP.

Now this stuff will be in the game and I'll be at least participating in the Indirect PvP, IPvP, or competitive PvE or whatever you want to call it. But I'm comforted to know this stuff isn't taking the design process over like it did in SWG. We all saw the results.

[Hagon]

Oh, I know you are but what am I? :p

Let's just look at the last few news blasts, shall we?

One deals exclusively with NPC crews and the writing for Episodic Content.

Then you have this from Epic Battle Axe:



Where, what? Is there PvP in this game? Is there realm vs. realm? We better get that confirmed!

Then we have the interview at The Vault:
http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249

The only mention in the whole thing of PvP is one question and answer involving "Indirect PvP." That may be the Realm vs. Realm you're into but it's not really PvP is it? And it certainly doesn't seem to be anything like a preoccupation of the devs or the players here.

Then there's the Ten Ton Hammer interview here:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/66095

While there's discussion of general combat and how crew or ship builds factor in they could be talking about PvE Episodic or Duty Missions. There's no mention of Realm vs. Realm or PvP.

Now this stuff will be in the game and I'll be at least participating in the Indirect PvP, IPvP, or competitive PvE or whatever you want to call it. But I'm comforted to know this stuff isn't taking the design process over like it did in SWG. We all saw the results.You really are missing a lot aren't you? It's kind of funny watching you go at it though. :D

[OddjobXL]

Show me what I'm missing that's remotely recent?

Edit: I can see this is proving to be a challenge for you. Let me link to the stickied "What We Know About STO" thread:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535

Note the minor roles PvP and the Neutral Zone play, so far, in what we know. Sure this could change but I think I'm not the one guilty of wishful thinking.

Now I will say I want competitive PvE to be fun in the Neutral Zone and I think we'll both find a little of what we're looking for there. Some people will focus exclusively on that or on the FFE PvP arenas. That's fine. Take what you like and ignore the rest. The problem comes when aggressive players try to strongarm their vision of things and force other players to do things their way.

That's not going to happen here from what I can tell.

[Hagon]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, etc etc......

Go forth and learn young padawan. :p

[apexearth]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

lol... well...put...kind of.

[OddjobXL]

Sorry Hagon, you were taking a while there so I edited my previous post while you were composing your constructive response.

[Hagon]

Sorry Hagon, you were taking a while there so I edited my previous post while you were composing your constructive response.Well as much as I know you like to pollute forums with petty bickering, I'll not bite, except to say that although I'm sure you want to believe that everyone's life revolves around discussion with you. I wasn't composing anything. Except a cup of coffee I guess. :)

[IG_Slayer]

EVE gets boring fast and is is only fun to play with friends. But it still gets boring fast even when playing with friends. :D

[OddjobXL]

Don't mess with the Oddjob. He has a razor-brimmed bowler. Much love to any graphic artist who can put this guy in a Starfleet Uniform:

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x162/OddjobXL/oddjobmovie_010620071056.jpg

[Hagon]

All these games get boring pretty fast if they don't have a healthy and properly designed faction vs faction element that includes some good PvP action. Or a seemingly endless stream of high end raids. Look at the info on STO and see in what basket you think they're putting their eggs in as far as long term viability goes. ;)

[OddjobXL]

Hagon, that's the beauty of STO from what I can tell. They've got more baskets than eggs.

[Griffin]

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be significant opportunity for both PvE and PvP inside of STO. Going back to the original statement, I don't believe this game will resemble EvE, especially not PvPwise.

EvE allows player controlled territory, which in turn is often fought over and claimed by other player run guilds. The majority of PvP revolves around piracy or guild vs guild warfare. Faction vs Faction plays an insignificant role, as does the world faction vs faction PvP in games such as World of warcraft.

The point being, there will be PvP in STO, but will it be meaningful? Will Fleets spend their time fighting over territory that is not theirs to govern? Will they fight for planets so that the rest of their faction can enjoy the rewards? Other games have shown, after awhile, faction vs faction warfare on the worldwide/galaxywide scale dies down after a few months.

Unless STO offers truely meaningful PvP (Not PvP for the sake of PvP), then I believe the above statements to be true, that PvE will be the primary focus of the game, leaving PvP in the gutter...

[Hagon]

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be significant opportunity for both PvE and PvP inside of STO. Going back to the original statement, I don't believe this game will resemble EvE, especially not PvPwise.

EvE allows player controlled territory, which in turn is often fought over and claimed by other player run guilds. The majority of PvP revolves around piracy or guild vs guild warfare. Faction vs Faction plays an insignificant role, as does the world faction vs faction PvP in games such as World of warcraft.

The point being, there will be PvP in STO, but will it be meaningful? Will Fleets spend their time fighting over territory that is not theirs to govern? Will they fight for planets so that the rest of their faction can enjoy the rewards? Other games have shown, after awhile, faction vs faction warfare on the worldwide/galaxywide scale dies down after a few months.

Unless STO offers truely meaningful PvP (Not PvP for the sake of PvP), then I believe the above statements to be true, that PvE will be the primary focus of the game, leaving PvP in the gutter...They have given a reason for PvP, as well as the competitivePvE, as I mentioned before. It will be for control over, or influence with, different planets and such that have resources (i.e. raw materilas, knowledge, components, etc etc) that we will need as we advance our characters, fleets, and faction.

[OddjobXL]

Well we really don't know.

PvP that's meaningful is the preferable model. That said the ultimate expression of this kind of PvP already exists in Eve Online. If I were sitting down to figure out the right marketing angle this is definitely not the fight I'd want to have.

What doesn't exist yet is meaningful PvE in terms of game mechanics in MMOs. Thus we're seeing IPvP in the Neutral Zone. That should have systems to conquer and assorted kinds of combat, and possibly even diplomatic, missions being issued from Starfleet Command or the Imperial fleet. It sounds like it will be "meaningful" and can even impact the control of surrounding regions in space (for how long we don't know - will there be resets?).

That PvP is an option in Neutral Zone IPvP is a good thing, some folks will enjoy that and it's nice to give them the option. However I suspect it won't be the central mode because PvE will always be easier and if a side wants to win it will focus on PvE actions and missions.

This will lead to some PvPers complaining and saying they're fighting a "real" war and PvEers are messing things up with no risk to themselves.

Where have we heard this before? SWG's GCW. Everyone but the PvPers and a few die-hard Kosterites, many of these roleplayers or crafters or beastmasters who liked aspects of Koster's design, vanished from the game as soon as it dawned on them there was no Star Wars just gang wars. Then the PvPers vanished when WoW hit.

I think this is a lesson Cryptic has learned or at least that's something I tend to read into their decisionmaking process.

[qoona]

From the old webcast , if i remember it corectly he sain there will be safe sopace, consensual space ( neutral zone and free pvp space ( far space zones)

[IG_Slayer]

Don't mess with the Oddjob. He has a razor-brimmed bowler. Much love to any graphic artist who can put this guy in a Starfleet Uniform:

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x162/OddjobXL/oddjobmovie_010620071056.jpg

lol..............hmmmmmmm a challenge! :D
I might do it, than again that would mean I'd be away from the forums for a bit! :D

[OddjobXL]

Thanks IG! It'll be worth it! (To me at least).

[Hagon]

Well we really don't know.

PvP that's meaningful is the preferable model. That said the ultimate expression of this kind of PvP already exists in Eve Online. If I were sitting down to figure out the right marketing angle this is definitely not the fight I'd want to have.

What doesn't exist yet is meaningful PvE in terms of game mechanics in MMOs. Thus we're seeing IPvP in the Neutral Zone. That should have systems to conquer and assorted kinds of combat, and possibly even diplomatic, missions being issued from Starfleet Command or the Imperial fleet. It sounds like it will be "meaningful" and can even impact the control of surrounding regions in space (for how long we don't know - will there be resets?).

That PvP is an option in Neutral Zone IPvP is a good thing, some folks will enjoy that and it's nice to give them the option. However I suspect it won't be the central mode because PvE will always be easier and if a side wants to win it will focus on PvE actions and missions.

This will lead to some PvPers complaining and saying they're fighting a "real" war and PvEers are messing things up with no risk to themselves.

Where have we heard this before? SWG's GCW. Everyone but the PvPers and a few die-hard Kosterites, many of these roleplayers or crafters or beastmasters who liked aspects of Koster's design, vanished from the game as soon as it dawned on them there was no Star Wars just gang wars. Then the PvPers vanished when WoW hit.

I think this is a lesson Cryptic has learned or at least that's something I tend to read into their decisionmaking process.OddjobXL you really should learn about the differences in what you're talking about. Indirect PvP and PvP are two completely different things. Zinc sometimes refers to the competitive PvE as "indirect PvP". It's a way of stressing the competitiveness of it and to invoke in people's minds what it will mean in the game. It will be one of the ways we'll be competing with, or in other words combating, the opposing faction. The term just denotes the competitive aspect of it. It's not the all encompassing term for what's going to be going on in the Neutral Zone that you think it is.

As well, you really should stop trying to pass off your very skewed beliefs in what happened to SWG as if they're actual facts. Not if you want to be taken seriously outside of the small, rather venomous, pre CU/NGE suppoter crowd. You're describing an opinion of what happened. An opinion only held amongst a fraction of the people that ever played that game. Unfortunately that fraction hasn't shut up about it in all this time (which should tell people a lot about them ;) ), but that doesn't make what they say "fact".

[ktanner3]

Well we really don't know.

PvP that's meaningful is the preferable model. That said the ultimate expression of this kind of PvP already exists in Eve Online. If I were sitting down to figure out the right marketing angle this is definitely not the fight I'd want to have.

What doesn't exist yet is meaningful PvE in terms of game mechanics in MMOs. Thus we're seeing IPvP in the Neutral Zone. That should have systems to conquer and assorted kinds of combat, and possibly even diplomatic, missions being issued from Starfleet Command or the Imperial fleet. It sounds like it will be "meaningful" and can even impact the control of surrounding regions in space (for how long we don't know - will there be resets?).

That PvP is an option in Neutral Zone IPvP is a good thing, some folks will enjoy that and it's nice to give them the option. However I suspect it won't be the central mode because PvE will always be easier and if a side wants to win it will focus on PvE actions and missions.

This will lead to some PvPers complaining and saying they're fighting a "real" war and PvEers are messing things up with no risk to themselves.

Where have we heard this before? SWG's GCW. Everyone but the PvPers and a few die-hard Kosterites, many of these roleplayers or crafters or beastmasters who liked aspects of Koster's design, vanished from the game as soon as it dawned on them there was no Star Wars just gang wars. Then the PvPers vanished when WoW hit.

I think this is a lesson Cryptic has learned or at least that's something I tend to read into their decisionmaking process.

Well said, but one other point needs to be made. Nerfs were done that affeted PVE because of the complaints of Jedi against other classes. So not only was PVP affected, but so was the people who never touched it. I really hope this game doesn't go down that path because nothing is more annoying than havinng to relearn your character because of the complaints of one segment of elitists.

[OddjobXL]

OddjobXL you really should learn about the differences in what you're talking about. Indirect PvP and PvP are two completely different things. Zinc sometimes refers to the competitive PvE as "indirect PvP". It's a way of stressing the competitiveness of it and to invoke in people's minds what it will mean in the game. It will be one of the ways we'll be competing with, or in other words combating, the opposing faction. The term just denotes the competitive aspect of it. It's not the all encompassing term for what's going to be going on in the Neutral Zone that you think it is.

As well, you really should stop trying to pass off your very skewed beliefs in what happened to SWG as if they're actual facts. Not if you want to be taken seriously outside of the small, rather venomous, pre CU/NGE suppoter crowd. You're describing an opinion of what happened. An opinion only held amongst a fraction of the people that ever played that game. Unfortunately that fraction hasn't shut up about it in all this time (which should tell people a lot about them ;) ), but that doesn't make what they say "fact".

Actually, I'm still there. I've been there since beta. I watched all the fights and participated in them myself until it became obvious where things were going. I think Koster's design had good ideas, ideas that are actually getting fleshed out well after the fact by the latest dev team - as best they can given where things are, but I've always said Koster screwed up by using SWG as a personal testing lab for his ideas, and knowing when to toss things out that didn't fit, rather than adapting his ideas to a Star Wars context.

Oscar Wilde is attributed with a great quote, several actually, but this one should be engraved on every game designer's forehead: “Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it — whole-heartedly — and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings.”

Koster never met a darling idea he could kill off even when it would have better served the holistic design. We see Cryptic's folks actually mention all the ideas they had to kill off in order to get gameplay that better fit the Star Trek license in at least one interview.

When those ideas didn't have an initial base of support, they were new after all, Koster had to lean on PvPers with the promise of a strong PvP game.

So we ended up with a real bizarre game even before NGE hit. I tend to think folks singing the praises of how "Star Wars" SWG was before the NGE are on crack. They certainly didn't see Jedi or starships or a recognizable Empire or Rebellion.

Look, Hagon, just know when you've lost an argument. You should be used to it by now when dealing with me.

[Hagon]

Look, Hagon, just know when you've lost an argument. You should be used to it by now when dealing with me.Man I tell ya, I've met some real delusional people over these many many years following these games, and I have to say you certainly have managed to rank right up there.

As I always say though. It takes all kinds of nuts to make the trailmix. :D:D:D

[OddjobXL]

I have to admit I do have fun arguing with you Hagon. Maybe we'll meet out in the Neutral Zone one day and take it to the next level?

[Hagon]

It's a date. Bring friends! Lots and lots of them! :cool:

[ajaco3025]

EVE-O is an awesome game. STO will be different from Eve, which is good, and STO will be unique in its own right just because of its origin.


I am the antagonist. Look me up in-game if you have an issue with me. I'll be happy to "respawn" you.

[0wl]

I have to admit I do have fun arguing with you Hagon. Maybe we'll meet out in the Neutral Zone one day and take it to the next level?

Love is in the air?! :p

[DarkBarron]

EVE is a great game. I have been playing it for nearly 6 years. It is what it is and it works well.
However STO needs to be different, because there is no point having 2 similar games as it
wont matter which you play. At the end of the day STO has the opportunity to rewrite the rule
book when it comes to online gaming. Lets hope they push the boundaries and make something
new, interesting and most of all fun to play.

D.B.

[OddjobXL]

Love is in the air?! :p

Shhh. I got the last word. My strategy is working. Again. Muahahaha!

[0wl]

Shhh. I got the last word. My strategy is working. Again. Muahahaha!

All hail hehe! *Grin*

[Ruzzell]

EVE Online sucks, the game sucks, the company that makes it sucks, the players suck, the story sucks.

Bottom Line:

It SUCKS

[Hagon]

Shhh. I got the last word. My strategy is working. Again. Muahahaha!
See my post after yours there? Ya, like I said, ... delusional...... :p


EVE Online sucks, the game sucks, the company that makes it sucks, the players suck, the story sucks.

Bottom Line:

It SUCKSI don't think you should hold back like that. Tell us what you really think.

[UA_Fleet_Admiral]

Eve has its good points and of course like any other game ever made has its bad points. I'm also a firm believer of not comparing titles like this unless your talking about an RTS or FPS, which in that case they ARE the same...lol.

STO will be unlike any other MMO out there with only slight similarities with others, but of course thats what the Dev's are going for...uniqueness, not WoW staleness. Just my two cents. :cool:

[OddjobXL]

See my post after yours there? Ya, like I said, ... delusional...... :p

Doh I missed it. I see orange text and I feel the compusion to try and overlook it.

I look forward to it as well. As poorly as you've been handling yourself in our discussions, here and elsewhere, it's only fair I give you a chance in a venue where you claim to have some skill. Let's see if those claims are all huff and puff too.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

too ppl trying too compare this too eve online 2 , this not eve online if want ships like eve go back to the game.

Oh, how insightful. Thank you for posting a thread just to tell us this one sentence which really doesnt even have anything to do with STO :rolleyes:

[Hagon]

Doh I missed it. I see orange text and I feel the compusion to try and overlook it.

I look forward to it as well. As poorly as you've been handling yourself in our discussions, here and elsewhere, it's only fair I give you a chance in a venue where you claim to have some skill. Let's see if those claims are all huff and puff too.Mate, after you being soundly trounced in thread after thread, and after it being so clearly shown that you're just a unbalanced voice in the wilderness for a dying play style, it is admirable that you keep coming back for more. A little concerning that due to the whole "doing the same thing over and over with the same negative end result" thing and all though.

[OddjobXL]

We keep this up and we're both getting banned you know. :cool:

[Hagon]

We keep this up and we're both getting banned you know. :cool:I'm sure you believe that. :)

[djnattyd]

EVE Online sucks, the game sucks, the company that makes it sucks, the players suck, the story sucks.

Bottom Line:

It SUCKS

So you like it then? :p

[Kanharn]

I played EVE some time ago....that didnt last long.

If STO has even one thing close to EVE Mechanics, I will go right back to SWG and forget about Trek in general.

ha ha SWG go back to your 6 yr old out dated MMo and leave us all in peace.

I cant believe any nubs still play SWG it died years ago.

When it was around it was only good for like 2 yrs.

I hope we dont get all these MMo nubs and part time gamers

[joe73]

Well I have played EvE for many years and It definitely doesn't look like STO is going to be anything like it. One of the things I always hated about EvE is that it is NOT a solo friendly game. I understand that the point of an MMO is to play with other players, but there are other MMO titles that are far more solo friendly. It is my hope that the game play of STO will be supportive to both group AND solo PvE/PvP. I just like to play alone sometimes and don't like it when the game dynamics penalize me for it or force me to have multiple accounts.

[Savar]

Yes. Group and solo need to be mixed for balance play. Hopefully all aspects of comunity input are being weighed.