Playground vs. Themepark

[CaptainQuirk]

Okay.. I know that the typical terminology is SANDBOX vs Themepark, but over the years, I have come to realize that the terminology is not accurate. It is more accurate to use the term Playground.

Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies in their original implementation were examples of Playground MMOs. You were free to explore whatever avenues of gameplay that interested you. You were not required to go on quests. You entered the game, found a niche and expanded upon the skills and abilities that supported that niche. And great fun was had. Players used their imaginations and, using elements and tools placed in the game world, experienced their own personal adventures and stories.

In the current version of Star Wars Galaxies and in the current design model for the average MMO, the Themepark approach applies. Players are mushed through a linear progression, not just in leveling, but also in terms of content. Less free-range exploring and more "I need to hurry up and do this so I can do that" gameplay occurs. The developers create the content and lead the players from point A to B to C, and thus the players experience someone else's adventures and stories.

In real life, if you go to a playground and swing on the swingset, when you get tired of it, you simply get off and move to the slide, or whatever. You have total freedom to switch between pieces of playground equipment as you see fit.

But if you go to a theme park, to experience an attraction, you have to get in the queue line and go through it. Oh, you can change attractions you want to experience, but each time, you start at the end of the line in the queue. And once you've done the attraction, its done. And you find that it was over in far less time than it took to even get to it.

It is my sincere hope that Star Trek Online will be more of a playground type game, where I am essentially free to explore and experience the Star Trek universe as it is depicted in the game as I see fit. I don't mind consequences for going where, by all rights, I shouldn't, like taking my ship across the neutral zone on a whim. But I should be able to do it. I also should be able to pull out my phaser in engineering, set it to maximum, and shoot the warp core, if I so desire. The ship may explode with a loss of all hands, but to be ABLE to do it is important. Not that I would actually DO something stupid like that. It's a matter of freedom and the responsibilities that go with it.

[Jezebel1669]

I like a kind of mix of the two, what they were trying to do with WoW. There are missions and storylines to follow and if you want to you can get involved with the larger picture of events in the galaxy, but at the same time there's random beasties to slay and you can easily max out your character simply by doing your own thing, although it would take longer without the extra XP.

MxO was even better, with the developers actually listening to the players to such a degree that they introduced new factions with their own storylines and mission sets because of the random evolution of the environment within the game. Hopefully we'll be treated to the same respect here. We're not just customers, but a part of the system.

[NaughtyProwler]

Yeah, I'm pretty sad that sandbox games are nearly extinct. I guess EVE is kind of sandbox, but I'm not really into ONLY spaceship gaming.

Gaming companies want to make money. While there is money in sandbox games (I think at its peak SWG had ~300k subs going strong), I would say linear gameplay attracts a wider audience. I hate to say "look at WoW's subscription numbers"... but that's what every company is aiming for when they make a game whether you like it or not.

I'm hoping someone makes a really cool sandbox game in the next couple of years...

[mezlabor]

Im not sure how going off and doing your own thing would mesh well with being part of an organized military like orginzation. Obviously however the devs cant force you to take missions starfleet sends to you and they have to give you a degree of freedom. Some happy medium must exist between being a part of starfleet or the IKE and being a player free to make your own choices

[Flixi]

There is one big sandbox game coming out this year: SPORE

and believe me, this is the biggest sandbox you have ever seen. :)

Okay, but back to topic:

I also like to see a mixture of sandbox and scripted themepark, because I want both, exploration and freedom without narrow limits and on the other side a story or more stories to play through.

[Jezebel1669]

Im not sure how going off and doing your own thing would mesh well with being part of an organized military like orginzation.You could always steal the ship and bugger off to join the Orion Syndicate. :D

[CaptainQuirk]

I like a kind of mix of the two, what they were trying to do with WoW. There are missions and storylines to follow and if you want to you can get involved with the larger picture of events in the galaxy, but at the same time there's random beasties to slay and you can easily max out your character simply by doing your own thing, although it would take longer without the extra XP.

MxO was even better, with the developers actually listening to the players to such a degree that they introduced new factions with their own storylines and mission sets because of the random evolution of the environment within the game. Hopefully we'll be treated to the same respect here. We're not just customers, but a part of the system.

There is room for both approaches in a single MMO. But it should be up to the player to choose between them. A core story with an extensive series of missions tied to it would be good for those who enjoy the themepark style of gameplay. But the other side of the room likes the playground approach, so there should be (and Jack hinted that there will be) mechanics that provide content that pretty much allows the player to decide whether or not, or how, to deal with it.

Right now, the best example of an MMO that blends both Themepark and Playground gameplay, in my opinion, is Lord of the Rings online.

[Jezebel1669]

A core story with an extensive series of missions tied to it would be good for those who enjoy the themepark style of gameplay. But the other side of the room likes the playground approach...And then there's people like myself who enjoy dropping between the two depending on my mood. :)

[CaptainQuirk]

Yeah, I'm pretty sad that sandbox games are nearly extinct. I guess EVE is kind of sandbox, but I'm not really into ONLY spaceship gaming.

Gaming companies want to make money. While there is money in sandbox games (I think at its peak SWG had ~300k subs going strong), I would say linear gameplay attracts a wider audience. I hate to say "look at WoW's subscription numbers"... but that's what every company is aiming for when they make a game whether you like it or not.

I'm hoping someone makes a really cool sandbox game in the next couple of years...

WoWs success comes from the fact that it was well advertised and is easily accessable to all ages. Not to mention that it is designed to run well on a far wider range of systems.

Star Wars Galaxies did have anywhere from 300k - 500k subscribers at its peak. It sold far more copies than that, though. The problem was that it was a true sandbox, in that all there was to play with was sand. There were few toys available. And it was loaded with bugs. That's why the most vocal outcry back then was for SOE to fix bugs and add content. SOE did neither, choosing instead to reinvent the game twice. That is what cost them their subscribers.

[CaptainQuirk]

Im not sure how going off and doing your own thing would mesh well with being part of an organized military like orginzation. Obviously however the devs cant force you to take missions starfleet sends to you and they have to give you a degree of freedom. Some happy medium must exist between being a part of starfleet or the IKE and being a player free to make your own choices

Like I said, I want the freedom to go off and do my on thing, but I won't mind consequences for doing so if it means going against regulations. Picard COULD have taken the enterprise anywhere he wanted. But he didn't because he understood that because he could didn't mean that he should. Responsibility and consequences defined his sense of duty. As it shpould be with us.

[CaptainQuirk]

I also like to see a mixture of sandbox and scripted themepark, because I want both, exploration and freedom without narrow limits and on the other side a story or more stories to play through.

No argument from me

[Jezebel1669]

I hope they don't try to do 'scripted events' like on MxO. It's a nice idea but when they're always run based on the American audience it does make the Europeans feel a little left out of the big events.

[marscentral]

I agree to some extent, that this will be great if we have some freedom to do our own thing. I don't think the example of being able to shoot your own warpcore holds up though, it would be like giving you the option to turn it on yourself. Being able to do suicidal/stupid things isn't freedom.

I think it's more likely that you'll be able to pick the type of adventures and missions you have, are you going to be strengthening the Federation's (or the Empire's) diplomatic ties, looking to discover long lost civilizations or become a hardened veteran of wars to defend the Federation/Empire.

[Jezebel1669]

...are you going to be strengthening the Federation's (or the Empire's) diplomatic ties, looking to discover long lost civilizations or become a hardened veteran of wars to defend the Federation/Empire.Or are you going to be damaging diplomatic ties with reckless actions, raiding peaceful systems for their resources and running from battles whenever not facing an inferior opponent? Not everyone is honourable and courageous after all.

[r2data]

I hope they don't try to do 'scripted events' like on MxO. It's a nice idea but when they're always run based on the American audience it does make the Europeans feel a little left out of the big events.

Not to mention those of us that are Down Under....

[marscentral]

Or are you going to be damaging diplomatic ties with reckless actions, raiding peaceful systems for their resources and running from battles whenever not facing an inferior opponent? Not everyone is honourable and courageous after all.

Exactly. There should be lots of ways to achieve your aims. You might end a border dispute with skilled negotiations, bribary or a bit of genocide. The way you go will dictate how your ship and crew evolve and (I hope) affect your reputation with NPCs. Will allied ships be proud to join you or ready to stab you in the back before you stab them?

[Jezebel1669]

Will allied ships be proud to join you or ready to stab you in the back before you stab them?It'd be nice to see the difference in the factions there, like in Birth Of The Federation. While diplomacy may increase your standing with the Federation, Klingons are far more likely to respect a good bit of genocide.

[Admiral_Soth]

I'd like to have a mixture. I definitely want a storyline of missions but I want to be able to explore, PvP, do side missions, etc on my own time.

However, I think that the setting lends itself to more of a themepark game. This is due to the structures of Starfleet and the IKC where as a government vessal you are going to do the missions you are given and not given as free of reign.

But, I would like to see some sandbox time.

[USS_Paragon]

Okay.. I know that the typical terminology is SANDBOX vs Themepark, but over the years, I have come to realize that the terminology is not accurate. It is more accurate to use the term Playground.

Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies in their original implementation were examples of Playground MMOs. You were free to explore whatever avenues of gameplay that interested you. You were not required to go on quests. You entered the game, found a niche and expanded upon the skills and abilities that supported that niche. And great fun was had. Players used their imaginations and, using elements and tools placed in the game world, experienced their own personal adventures and stories.

In the current version of Star Wars Galaxies and in the current design model for the average MMO, the Themepark approach applies. Players are mushed through a linear progression, not just in leveling, but also in terms of content. Less free-range exploring and more "I need to hurry up and do this so I can do that" gameplay occurs. The developers create the content and lead the players from point A to B to C, and thus the players experience someone else's adventures and stories.

In real life, if you go to a playground and swing on the swingset, when you get tired of it, you simply get off and move to the slide, or whatever. You have total freedom to switch between pieces of playground equipment as you see fit.

But if you go to a theme park, to experience an attraction, you have to get in the queue line and go through it. Oh, you can change attractions you want to experience, but each time, you start at the end of the line in the queue. And once you've done the attraction, its done. And you find that it was over in far less time than it took to even get to it.

It is my sincere hope that Star Trek Online will be more of a playground type game, where I am essentially free to explore and experience the Star Trek universe as it is depicted in the game as I see fit. I don't mind consequences for going where, by all rights, I shouldn't, like taking my ship across the neutral zone on a whim. But I should be able to do it. I also should be able to pull out my phaser in engineering, set it to maximum, and shoot the warp core, if I so desire. The ship may explode with a loss of all hands, but to be ABLE to do it is important. Not that I would actually DO something stupid like that. It's a matter of freedom and the responsibilities that go with it.

This is probably one of the best descriptions I've seen. Excellent insight.

[marscentral]

I think we'll see a combination with some missions coming through the chain of command and some happening as a result of just flying about exploring.

[ScrewySquirrel]

Yeah, I'm pretty sad that sandbox games are nearly extinct.
I'm hoping someone makes a really cool sandbox game in the next couple of years...


the ultimate sandbox game has already been created, so much so, than many of its adherents do not consider it a game: Second Life, which has literally *no* object. you do whatever you like or don't do anything, entirely up to you. Its a completely different experiment in online gaming than any MMO. Its a lot closer to the old text TinyMU*s than it is to EQ, EVE, or WoW. Its a user-extensible (99.99% User created) world

[Jare]

I hope to see elements of both types of gameplay. I'd like it to be sandbox style for the most part, but also have access to missions and series of missions with a storyline that I can participate in.

I am pretty excited about the concept of discovering new galaxies and civilizations, especially with developers continually adding them in as time goes on so that the possibility of expanding the universe doesn't end in the first few months of the game.

[Jezebel1669]

I'd like to see some kind of cooperative action too. Maybe like having unexplored star systems where a certain number of users have to scan them before a colony can be formed there, or contact will be made with the indigenous population, and after that a certain number of supply missions would need to be completed for each stage of expansion of that colony. After a long enough period what once was an empty system could be developed into a fully functioning member of the faction.

At the same time the other faction would be trying to undermine the success of the system, trying to either destroy the colony or swing the locals over to their side, either through diplomacy or conquest.