Federation vs Klingon unbalanced population

[Hseeker]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

[Bazil]

I think the only way to counter this would be to make sure that any PvP or competetive PvE does not grant an advantage to the side with the more people.

[FAR]

Personally I believe that there should be some live test to determin who you're born as.

Such as you're like one of those beings (the ones that Sisko met) in the worm hole, and you're given an opportunity to fly out into a hectic space where you have to choose which door you want to go through... etc etc.

[ArchBuck]

I imagine it will start with a fairly bad one-sided... but there are many ways to change that, and people will naturally even out after a while...

example, look at wow... when it first came out 90% of all servers were way over populated for alliance... over time though, it has evened out pretty well...

[Red_Mongoose]

Well I will be playing as a Klingon and will crush all oposition to the empire!

[DanTheBanjoman]

I'd say beta will tell if this is an actual issue or not. And of course when more factions are added things will even out more I guess.

[Dext]

I know I would like to have a toon on both sides but that is just me.

[MichalM.Mac]

Glory to the Empire !

[Severix]

As stated above, I think in the end, just before release it'll balance out. Although, I really would have preferred the Romulans being the "bad guys" rather than the Klingons who have, to a certain extent, been the major "bad guys" in the Trek universe.

[BreachAndClear]

Jack say that additional factions (like the Dominion and Romulans) will probably added sometime after launch. Perhaps it might be necessary to add the assets of those factions into a preexisting faction as opposed to adding them as an entirely separate entity. Such that when the Romulans are added after launch, they'll be part of a Romulan-Klingon alliance faction, and not an individual faction.

If 95% of players are going to play for Federation at launch and 5% for the Klingons, then adding two more factions might lead to 88% of players playing Federation, 3% playing Klingon, 5% Dominion, and 4% playing Romulan.

Whereas if Klingon/Dominion/Romulan were combined, then it would be 88% Federation and 12% Klingon/Dominion/Romulan alliance. Which would still be heavily unbalanced as is!

Perhaps an alliance system should be considered for the game?I think it might be nice if there were only two ALLIANCES at any given time, with the factions that make up those alliances being shifted around as necessary (and could represent changing diplomatic ties over time).

Such that when Dominion and Romulans are added, you might see the two alliances being:

-Federation
-Klingon/Romulan/Dominion

But, if you suddenly see a surge of players deciding to play the Klingons, then perhaps the Romulans will jump sides and ally with the Federation to balance things out.

i.e. maybe one day you're a Klingon allied with the Romulans, and the next day you find out that the alliance has been called off and you're now their enemy. I think an evolving system of alliances like that could make the game more dynamic and fun.

ALLIANCES would serve as dynamic large factions whereas the true factions would be static subcomponents, such that all members of the same faction would always be on the same side (e.g. you wouldn't see two Romulans on different sides), but the alliance to which they belong would shift to maintain a balance (or as close to one as possible) of powers.

[JKMurphy]

klingons and feds are allies it's the romulans that will be at the disadvantage, and they will probably put in a few AI to even it out abit.

[Ereiid]

example, look at wow... when it first came out 90% of all servers were way over populated for alliance... over time though, it has evened out pretty well...

In fairness, most of that is Blood Elves from TBC.

There are definite tropisms and preferences among the playerbase (ooo, pretty hair!) underlying that evening out. It's not necessarily a natural progression for the game, and if anything probably engineered by Blizzard.

[BreachAndClear]

In fairness, most of that is Blood Elves from TBC.

There are definite tropisms and preferences among the playerbase (ooo, pretty hair!) underlying that evening out. It's not necessarily a natural progression for the game, and if anything probably engineered by Blizzard.

That is entirely true. Which is why shorter, stockier, or taller and lanky races that look odd are the least played. E.G. Dwarves, Trolls, Gnomes.

I don't expect tellarites to be popular in this game.

[ibby1kanobi]

Such that when Dominion and Romulans are added, you might see the two alliances being:

-Federation
-Klingon/Romulan/Dominion


That would never happen. Even if there is some animosity between the Klingons and Federation, the Klingons would never ally with the Dominion. This would have canon trekkies in an uproar. I wouldn't like it much either.

I wouldn't be too worried. Yes, you see a lot of these Federation fleets recruiting, but that's because in the RP world, people don't RP the Klingon empire as much. I think that aside from those fleets, the majority of the player base will be unaffiliated with any Fleet or the boards even. People who like the ST universe, but aren't as nerdy as us (who are following it way before release) will balance things out.

[HighwayMan]

That is entirely true. Which is why shorter, stockier, or taller and lanky races that look odd are the least played. E.G. Dwarves, Trolls, Gnomes.

I don't expect tellarites to be popular in this game.

I've always loved dwarves and gnomes in fantasy rpgs and mmos. I have found over my many years of playing that the races with "sex appeal" get played more. It’s just a sad reality of fantasy gaming online.

I've already decided I'm going to have a tellarite on my crew! :D

[BreachAndClear]

That would never happen. Even if there is some animosity between the Klingons and Federation, the Klingons would never ally with the Dominion. This would have canon trekkies in an uproar. I wouldn't like it much either.

I wouldn't be too worried. Yes, you see a lot of these Federation fleets recruiting, but that's because in the RP world, people don't RP the Klingon empire as much. I think that aside from those fleets, the majority of the player base will be unaffiliated with any Fleet or the boards even. People who like the ST universe, but aren't as nerdy as us (who are following it way before release) will balance things out.


Then instead of adding the Dominion as playable add a different race which could form alliances with either Romulan, Federation, or Klingon. Or given that it's been 30 years, take the opportunity to create new ST stories and say why some of these alliances might form, or shift.

In SWG race and faction have no influence on each other (anymore), thus the fact that everyone and their mom seems to play as humans or Zabrak (what Darth Maul was) has no influence on Imperial and Rebel populations.

In WoW, Alliances help to balance out the low numbers of some of the member factions. Low numbers of dwarves and gnome players are balanced out by high numbers of human and night elve players.

In STO, given that - the Federation the exception - race and faction ARE one and the same (e.g. all players playing for the Klingon Empire are Klingons), if people have a problem with that race, then the faction will be dead. Having a dynamic alliance system could balance out low numbers. If anyone favors any one of a number of species: Vulcan, Ferengi, human, andorian, etc. over Klingons, then they're going to play for the federation. That's going to kill Klingon numbers. Or in the threads where people are discussing the ships they want to fly... nearly 100% (if not 100%) of those surveyed want a Federation ship.

I figure Romulans and Klingons will definitely be less popular choices than Federation (true, some people want to play a Romulan or Klingon, but the number is heavily outweighed). Rather than having one superpower and multiple little factions that no one plays, why not group the less popular factions together into an alliance to create as much balance as possible?

[severius]

Well to be perfectly honest I think the federation does have a much larger population than the klingon empire. For one thing the federation takes in just about anything that asks whereas the klingon's are more likely to slaughter someone for having the audacity of asking to be part of the Empire :) Secondly, and I may be wrong about this, but I think that the Klingon mating rituals may actually help to keep the population down do to accidental deaths and maimings :)

[DurMan667]

I will have a federation toon because given the current choice I prefer their philosophy and ship design.

But when Romulans become available... Now THAT's sexy design!

Plus they're just plain awesome.

[Mysticone622]

Sorry Im a Trill, so im going to be joining the Federation.

Ask my wife, my spots do in fact go all the way down :D

[severius]

Then instead of adding the Dominion as playable add a different race which could form alliances with either Romulan, Federation, or Klingon. Or given that it's been 30 years, take the opportunity to create new ST stories and say why some of these alliances might form, or shift.

In SWG race and faction have no influence on each other (anymore), thus the fact that everyone and their mom seems to play as humans or Zabrak (what Darth Maul was) has no influence on Imperial and Rebel populations.

In WoW, Alliances help to balance out the low numbers of some of the member factions. Low numbers of dwarves and gnome players are balanced out by high numbers of human and night elve players.

In STO, given that - the Federation the exception - race and faction ARE one and the same (e.g. all players playing for the Klingon Empire are Klingons), if people have a problem with that race, then the faction will be dead. Having a dynamic alliance system could balance out low numbers. If anyone favors any one of a number of species: Vulcan, Ferengi, human, andorian, etc. over Klingons, then they're going to play for the federation. That's going to kill Klingon numbers. Or in the threads where people are discussing the ships they want to fly... nearly 100% (if not 100%) of those surveyed want a Federation ship.

I figure Romulans and Klingons will definitely be less popular choices than Federation (true, some people want to play a Romulan or Klingon, but the number is heavily outweighed). Rather than having one superpower and multiple little factions that no one plays, why not group the less popular factions together into an alliance to create as much balance as possible?

The only good federation vessel is one being used as a garbage scow, or being hauled away as garbage.

[Mysticone622]

The only good federation vessel is one being used as a garbage scow, or being hauled away as garbage.

lol- funny

[ibby1kanobi]

I figure Romulans and Klingons will definitely be less popular choices than Federation (true, some people want to play a Romulan or Klingon, but the number is heavily outweighed). Rather than having one superpower and multiple little factions that no one plays, why not group the less popular factions together into an alliance to create as much balance as possible?

Well, keep in mind that realistically, the Federation IS much larger than the Klingon Empire. The Kllingons don't really have allies (other than the Federation) and they aren't ones to take other races into service (generally). In the ST universe, the Federation is much bigger (population wise) than the Klingons.

The only balance to this is that A) The Klingons have been spacefarers for much longer than the Federation, B) They are a warrior race, even their women serve and C) 90% of their ships are military vessels, as apposed to the Federation. These three factors are what even things somewhat.

However, for gameplay balance, your argument makes sense. How they fix that, we'll have to see.

[jdfimage]

I for one will probably be dropping my Federation character or playing it a lot less when the Dominion are introduced. I've always wanted to play a Vorta.

"All the Dominion wants is to.... coexist.... peeeaaacefully along side our neighbors."

IMHO I too think that over all the populations will settle out into a fairly even mix. I mean, sure, people immediately identify with Starfleet. The shows have always been about those characters.

At first I'll have a char in both factions if it's allowed.

[Ptahk]

Well I will be playing as a Klingon and will crush all oposition to the empire!

A large glass of bloodwine will be drunk in your honour! It does not matter how many we number my friend, victory will be ours in our battle with the federation p'tahk! KAPLA!

[IanD967]

all because there are alot of fleets forming for the federation doesnt mean most people will play as the Federation.
there was a poll a while back asking "what side will you fight for?" and out of the replies they were pretty much split down the line.

i wouldent worry about an over-population of one side :) it will all straighten out heh

[Sckullzy]

I don’t think the Klingon empire is going to be what we know it as now. If you look at the “talking about Star Trek Online” post on Cryptics STO page the background art shows a Klingon captain leading a crew of several different races. If they’re serving on the ships than they most likely have brought their unique culture to the empire in some fashion. The “Klingon” empire could be something like the Alien Alliance from the mirror universe and as diverse and well rounded as the Federation. I don’t think that would have any trouble attracting players.
Does anyone know when the timeline explaining it all that Jack talked about is going to start showing up?

[ldgnlbeowolf]

well my thoughts on this matter is that ALL games end up with this problem and eventully it all evens out.
you have more then one faction with people enjoying certain factions over others, but then you have people that prefer to different ways they enjoy to play.

Exsample (KEY WORD EXSAMPLE)
You have 1300 federations people 300 like to pvp, 600 like to build and trade, 200 like to RP and 200 really do nothing remotly close to big raids or pvp they just like to be left alone.

Now you have 900 klingons, 500 like to pvp 200 build and trade and 100 rp and 100 same as above really do nothing.

So yes klingon might suffer in build and trade , but federation will suffer in PVP
And vise versa so all in all it corrects its self over time , because once a game gets released and people start to see the advanatges and disadvantages to those specfic faction in a game peoples minds change.

[starbuck1771]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

You shouldn't even worry about ballance in PvP. If you choose to go into PvP you know the risks.

[Ktar]

Yeah I think it should be made so numbers wont give either side an advantage and i am sure it will even out eventually. Like.. although I think I would rather start out playing for the Federation, I will eventually want to try Klingon as well.. I want my bird of prey!

[R4mp4ge]

I think there are alot of factors to consider over raw population numbers, I remember in the early days of wow, even right up to the BC xpac, the Horde was heavily outnumbered on most servers, and yet most of the time they were able to slam alliance groups that came after them. I think the same dynamic will show up here, alot of players who are interested in more character driven PvE play will go Fed, but the majority of players who are motivated by dominating in PvP will go klingon, especially if they implement the cloak properly, hell the Klingon culture even plays into that "badass warrior" mentality such players like to front.

[Kocht]

Alas, Klingons won't offer the racial diversity that is the trademark of Federation. I can't see how this could be averted without straying too far from the Star Trek universe. Such solutions include :

1) Creating an alliance between the Klingons and another popular race, such as Cardassians or Romulans (Who said Ferengis ?).

The PRO : - Every detail would be in accordance with the official Star Trek universe : no fancy new race, no extravagant ships. After all, in TOS, Klingons and Romulans shared starship designs…
- Fans of the allied species would add to the meagre Klingon host.
The CON : - Only one secondary race could be proposed that way, because an Axis-like coalition would be difficult to accept (the Federation isn’t the uniting threat that the Dominion represented) for fans.

2) Creating some “alliances” involving the Klingon Empire and some new species brought in to fight the Federation. These newcomers would be rather different from their turtleshell-headed allies, to broaden the choice offered to players.

The PRO : - A well thought new race, which would be visually very different from your average Klingon, could attract players wanting to escape the Federation herd without having to play some single minded warrior.
- The Klingon faction ships wouldn’t have to be all green and red.

The CON : - Only one secondary race could be proposed that way, more being less credible (of course, the Empire could have found a second Federation-like spacefaring power handy, allying themselves with it, but even a Nausican wouldn’t buy that one !)
- Even with one allied race, many fans will probably react negatively (I, for one). Instead of drawing players to Kahless’ glorious people, such an option could drive them away from the Empire and even from buying the game.

3) Creating Klingon "slave races", which would serve the Empire without being ethnic Klingons. After all, an Empire usually includes more than one nation : being conquerors, the Klingons must have subjugated other sentient beings which must be to them as no-citicizen subjects were to the Roman Empire.

The PRO : such races could be specialized as to make them perfect matches for Federation races.

The CON : - no Star Trek episode or movie has ever hinted at the existence of such races (which have, of course, never be seen on a Klingon world or ship), so what an heresy this would be !
- Characters from these races might well outnumber “ethnic Klingons” : the Klingon Empire would become a mockery, some caricature of UFP !

4) Creating Klingon subspecies, using the great visual difference between TOS and Next Gen Klingons, for example, and adding one or two “intermediate” designs.

The PRO : - As for the “slave races”, such subspecies could be specialized as to make them perfect matches for Federation races.
- The old FASA Star Trek Roleplaying Game, which predates TNG, offered an acceptable explanation for such a genetic diversity : Klingon scientists (please don’t laugh : there must be some brained Klingons somewhere in the ST galaxy…) sometimes dabble with their genome, adding some foreign DNA in the hope of creating a Klingon strand which would be more adapted to a specific enemy. TOS Klingons were half Humans designed to “man” the “Federationward” border of the Empire, which had the advantage of explaining why Kirk only encountered those ones, only meeting “Imperial Klingons” later, in ST III. The FASA game went on imagining half-Romulan Klingons (the poor guys must have been either depressive or fans of Corneille)…

The CON : - I know, I know : how ludicrous ! But even the real ST creators haven’t been able to come up with an explanation about such a visual difference : when cornered by his DS9 comrades on this subject, even Worf chose to evade the question…

My opinion is that only the first solution would really be acceptable, with the fourth being an interesting secondary option. The second and third ones would surely contribute in burying the STOL project before its birth.

[BreachAndClear]

I wouldn't expect it to even out. It's like expecting the number of gnomes and dwarves in WoW to go up and balance out with the number of humans and nightelves, which hasn't happened, and probably will never happen during the entire run of the game.

The difference between WoW and STO is that race and faction are not synonymous in WoW. So, while the number of dwarves and gnomes are down, the number of players of the Alliance faction are not down, because large numbers of night elves and humans are playing for that faction. Thus, a player might want to have an alliance character, but hate the gnomes. This doesn't cause a problem, because they have other Alliance races to choose from. If WoW's alliance faction was comprised ONLY of gnomes and dwarves, then I'm sure the number of Alliance players would suffer greatly, because those too races are the most unpopular.

In STO - AFAIK - you cannot be an Andorian member of the Klingon Empire. The way I understand it, you MUST be a Klingon. So, if nobody wants to be a Klingon, then the entire faction suffers because Klingon is the ONLY playable race for that faction. It would be like the afore mentioned example of having gnomes be the only playable Alliance race in WoW. By adding Romulans (and potentially other races) to the same faction as Klingons, it would be more like WoW as it is currently, in that factions would have multiple member species, such that even if you didn't want to be a Klingon, you could still be a member of their faction (which I call an alliance) by being a Romulan.

Jack mentioned that a benefit of an online game is that it has the ability to evolve. What I am suggesting is that if the Federation is truly huge, the story can evolve such that Klingons and Romulans form an alliance to oppose them. Then, if the Klingon/Romulan alliance grows to strong, then perhaps the Romulans or Klingons (whoever is weaker) might jump sides and ally with the Federation in order to balance things out. STO alliances (as I am proposing) wouldn't necessarily be set in stone (as they are in WoW), instead they would change as balancing becomes an issue. Perhaps if all the factions are approximately equal in number, and an alliance would give one side a huge population boost, then perhaps a member of an alliance might declare independence and form a 3rd side. But, I think it would benefit gameplay if the game strived to maintain two super-alliances that were approximately equal in power at all times. It makes sense that if one side is a superpower, then other smaller factions might ally to overcome the stronger opponent, and if they succeed (by becoming stronger than their original opponent), then the alliance might dissolve and a new alliance might form.

[Trekkie]

I am hopeful that the Player vs. Player system isn't dependent on the total number of players affiliated with one faction or another and instead focuses on individual conflicts. I also believe that the United Federation of Planets will have many more players than other factions, so a system needs to be in place that ensures the Klingon Empire isn't hindered because of having lower membership.

[Interdictor]

klingons and feds are allies it's the romulans that will be at the disadvantage, and they will probably put in a few AI to even it out abit.

Actually, in the time this game takes place the Feds and Boneheads are on the outs and are not too friendly with each other. And concerning the events of Nemesis, I can easily see the Romulans and Federation being more friendly.

As for apparently dispproportionate faction populations - it will probably be a little lopsided for a while, but I imagine it will even out as time goes on, new people join the game, and older ones start trying out "alts". As new factions are released we will likely see temporary "population explosions" in the faction as well, which will level out in time.

[Hseeker]

I think the Federation has so much apeal is cause of its ship design.
Maybe cryptic needs to make the Klingon Ship design more awedropping, mean and sleek.
Or by giving the Klingons a more "pvp racial" talents, that way it would atrack more people that like to win :D

Also im not familiar with Klingon ships, since the series are only focused on the Federation,
so if somone has a list of pictures and names of the Klingon ships they have il be very gratefull :)

[Valenthalas]

I don't know.. I don't see how throwing together the Klingons, Romulans, and Dominion as an "Axis of Evil" would really solve anything.. they aren't allies, and I doubt seriously that's changed a lot since Nemesis.. if anything the Federation should probably have better ties with the Klingons and Romulans in general.. and considering that the Cardassians turned on the Dominion, they wouldn't really be playable as a Dominion race either... hmm.. anyway. It's already been said that for some race is faction, as with Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians.. though they all have other worlds that they rule over.. all other races would be second-class citizens.. such as the Remans..

[Deltab]

I am hopeful that the Player vs. Player system isn't dependent on the total number of players affiliated with one faction or another and instead focuses on individual conflicts. I also believe that the United Federation of Planets will have many more players than other factions, so a system needs to be in place that ensures the Klingon Empire isn't hindered because of having lower membership.

What I found is usually the majority will play the good guys for RP/PVE or other reasons. Often less percentage of pvpers compaired to the "bad guys". So long as Space combat takes more player skill then just parts, etc., then I believe it will balance. Well balance to a point. Yes even tho say 15% of Federation players are pvpers and 75% of Klingons are, it may still become possible that the Federation will outnumber the Klingons in each fight. But, often the Bad guys are better at pvp then the good guys, thus it usually balances.

My main problem with that balance of fewer Klingons out skilling more Federation(to a limit), can result in PvPers leaving the Federation to join/level up a Klingon. That is the most frustrating situation, which is one main reason I hope for a Large server to counter balance this.

[Deltab]

I think the Federation has so much apeal is cause of its ship design.
Maybe cryptic needs to make the Klingon Ship design more awedropping, mean and sleek.
Or by giving the Klingons a more "pvp racial" talents, that way it would atrack more people that like to win :D

Also im not familiar with Klingon ships, since the series are only focused on the Federation,
so if somone has a list of pictures and names of the Klingon ships they have il be very gratefull :)

The Klingon ships are the "coolest" of all in my opinion. The thing is thats not why I want to be Klingon. I want to be Klingon so I can get more pvp.

I think the Klingons real number issue is that most people dream of being a member of star fleet. How many people in this thread at least once in thier lives watch one of the shows and movies and wished they could be in them. Maybe a Star Fleet captain? Or a science officer? Maybe a tactical officer?

I believe that is the Klingons real problem, and until there is a Star Trek: Klingon tv show, then maybe the odds will lean tword the Klingons. Even then the Klingons will be more alien to many people.

[Kocht]

"Official" Klingon designs include, in a chronological order :
- D-7 cruiser (it can be seen in TOS episode Elaan of Troyus, as well as in The Enterprise Incident, where it poses as a Romulan ship, due to budgetary constraints.
- K't'Inga cruiser (a more elaborate version of the venerable D-7 created for ST The Motion Picture)
- B'rel frigate (AKA Klingon Bird of Prey, it appeared in ST III, then went on being the "villain ship" through ST V, VI and VII. This ship can also be seen in many TNG and DS9 episodes)
- K'Vort cruiser (it's just another B'rel ship, but supposedly larger and more powerful. It appears in TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise)
- Vor'cha attack cruiser (the TNG version of D-7, with a modernized look to show that if Federation starship design evolved, so did Klingon's)
- Negh'var cruiser (a gigantic battleship that appears as Chancellor Gowron's flagship in DS9 and as Regent Worf's vessel in the mirror universe (in another DS9 episode)).
Other ship have been invented in computer games, with some designs almost worthy of becoming "official ones".
I didn't include ST Enterprise Klingon ships, as I'm not fond of this later serial, but in a TNG era, the would be irrelevant (in fact, I consider ST Enterprise itself to be irrelevant,).

[bitgolem]

Personally I believe that there should be some live test to determin who you're born as.


I like that feature in various games character creation. It gives you a short personality profile test, then suggests a race and class for you based on your answers. They have one in Vampire:Bloodlines and I believe one in Neverwinter Nights...

[PoqkTer]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

We klingons get cloaks, so that balances it out, in terms of st reality, i believe the federation is far larger than the klingon empire.

[bitgolem]

The Klingon ships are the "coolest" of all in my opinion.

Bad guys always have the coolest ships because they're vain...

[Reinkaos]

If Defiants can't cloak, I'm going Klingon.

[vitamin_t]

I know I would like to have a toon on both sides but that is just me.

Same here. Both factions have their appeal.

[Cyjack]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

The Federation will outnumber PVE players no matter what race you put into the game. Its just the nature of the beast. PVP players will favor Klingons though, for conceptual and practical reasons, and also because the Federation is "lame".

Im really looking forward to blowing you feddies up.

[Deltab]

The Federation will outnumber PVE players no matter what race you put into the game. Its just the nature of the beast. PVP players will favor Klingons though, for conceptual and practical reasons, and also because the Federation is "lame".

Im really looking forward to blowing you feddies up.


My money is on that the Federation will outnumber the Klingons in pvp. But I think the battles will usually favor the Klingons(due to skill etc)

[severius]

I think the Federation has so much apeal is cause of its ship design.
Maybe cryptic needs to make the Klingon Ship design more awedropping, mean and sleek.
Or by giving the Klingons a more "pvp racial" talents, that way it would atrack more people that like to win :D

Also im not familiar with Klingon ships, since the series are only focused on the Federation,
so if somone has a list of pictures and names of the Klingon ships they have il be very gratefull :)

If you can find a game, it's several years old now, called Star Trek: Klingon Academy. Simply the best Star Trek game since the original trek back in 1982 or something like that. Can "learn" a lot about the klingons through that game and get to fly just about every Klingon vessel from a Bird of Prey to the largest Battlecruisers. And its more of a tactical game along the lines of Silent Hunter than Legacy or any of the other more action oriented games if I remember right. I am really hoping that space combat in STO will be an evolution of that game's mechanics rather than something more suited to a joystick/gamepad :)

On an unrelated note, but more back on track of the thread, I think people need to take things in the Forums with a HUGE grain of salt. The membership here is not indicative of the final game's population. I am pretty sure that the vast majority of the game's fans are sitting back, maybe reading looking for some info as to when the game will launch or when beta will start, rather than taking part in the mostly trivial and meaningless conversations that take place on these or any other game's forums. Just because "everyone" is choosing Federation does not mean that it will play out that way once the game launches.

Just some food for thought.

[Ecoi]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

Depends though. You might get more PvEers with the Federation, but more PvPers with the Klingons. I myself am still trying to decide. If there were the Romulans I'd 100% join them... But I am not sure I want to be Klingon... I love the Romulans, but the Klingons I MIGHT join if they have a clear disadvantage (I can never say no to a good PvP challenge).

I actually myself would rather have the Romulans come first instead of the Klingons, but /shrug, whatever. The only thing to do about it is to join the Klingons right now if you are afraid they are outnumbered. :D.

[Sckullzy]

The Federation will outnumber PVE players no matter what race you put into the game. Its just the nature of the beast. PVP players will favor Klingons though, for conceptual and practical reasons, and also because the Federation is "lame".

Im really looking forward to blowing you feddies up.

I think Klingon would also have decent numbers for PvE because being able to conquer resource rich territories instead of playing nice with the locals has an appeal of its own.

[USS_Parallax]

Federation will outnumber them by a ton. It's destiny. Plus it makes sense.

They're going to have to be creative to help ease the imbalanced populations.

[Ensign.Ricky]

I must be looking at the game differently as I was expecting it to be more PvE with Fleets and Factions helping each other on RAIDs or fighting off "bigger threat" NPCs at first. I didn't think that the population would matter as much in that case, since we would be all looking for help to fight off the common enemy. But if they are planning to go mainly PvP I can see where it throws a wrench in things.

I bet the Devs have something planned out for these issues and it is still a ways off with plenty of time to balence.

[Fluxion]

I dont know if this has been brought up.
But I have noticed a insane amount of clans (fleets) recruiting for the Federation,
while the klingons i have only see a few with a Roleplaying fleet in the mix.

Im concernend that the Federation wil vastly outmach the Klingons in terms of population imbalance.
I think cryptic would have been beter to put a third race like the Romulains, so that the population would be balanced out more.

Also I wonder what will happen when the other races that will become available in the expansion,
wil they be able to compete against the Federation in terms of high end ships and population imbalance.

Your thoughts?

Well, that's exactly what happened with WoW. Alliance players substantially outnumber Horde on all servers. They seem to be doing okay. As far as adding the Romulans? I think that would only serve to reduce the Klingons further by dividing players who would rather play the "dark side" among two choices. People who want to play Feds will play Feds regardless of whether there are Romulans, imho.

[Ereiid]

Well, that's exactly what happened with WoW. Alliance players substantially outnumber Horde on all servers. They seem to be doing okay.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

That's not entirely true, at least not since Burning Crusade. In fact, most of the newer TBC servers are Horde-sided, particularly the PvP ones.

Your point is well-taken, though. Remember that WoW's PvP mechanics, the BGs in particular, have mechanisms to compensate for population imbalances -- queueing. Seeing as how we're not entirely clear how Cryptic plans on implementing PvP in STO, it's hard to say whether or not they can introduce similar equalizing mechanics.

I do recall from CoX that the PvP zones were very given to faction imbalance. It wasn't hard to essentially clear out a given PvP zone with a tight-enough PvP squad.

[Aametherar]

Should be interesting to see how this goes (how the devs deal with it), but as with all previous ST games feds will outnumber others by a ton. What I don't get is why anyone would even want to be a human. You already are one! have some fun, be a klingon and talk smack in a way only klingons can. (for example) I still prefer borg demeanor, but I doubt humans will ever be allowed to become borg.

[Cyjack]

My money is on that the Federation will outnumber the Klingons in pvp. But I think the battles will usually favor the Klingons(due to skill etc)

I mispoke. I don't think the Klingons will "outnumber" the Federation among PvP players, but I think they will be better represented there.

At the end of the Day, the Klingons don't fly the Enterprise. There will always be more Federation characters.

So Devs, to be fair, you have to make us Klingons twice as awesome. It's only fair. :) I

[k.mpok]

For what its worth even with your superior numbers (something Canon wise is plausable as it seems the Fed was much larger if not for the shear fact of accepting other racing into their order) we warriors of the Empire will still crush the tin-plated, overbearing, swaggering dictatorship with delusions of godhood known as the Federation.


I must be looking at the game differently as I was expecting it to be more PvE with Fleets and Factions helping each other on RAIDs or fighting off "bigger threat" NPCs at first. I didn't think that the population would matter as much in that case, since we would be all looking for help to fight off the common enemy. But if they are planning to go mainly PvP I can see where it throws a wrench in things.

I bet the Devs have something planned out for these issues and it is still a ways off with plenty of time to balence.

I hope the are not going the PvP route being the main concern (IMO that just isn't Star trek) but more a PvE game with a small side order of PvP for fun.

[Sullen]

As appealing as the Federation looks, I think I'm going to go Klingon if I buy the game.

Sullen, Slayer of the Federation!

[mezlabor]

Our numbers may be small but our hearts are LARGE!. One Klingon warrior is worth 10 Federation targs. Let the Federation have their numbers our warriors will strike fear into their hearts and bathe in their blood! The Federation does not understand the call to battle they are weak and fearful and seek to talk, we will show the Federation what true warriors are our deeds will be sung of for many years! Qapla!

[Yavin_Prime]

First the main reason in my opinion why Federation outnumbers Klingon at the moment is because when PE was developing the game we all assumed we'd be Fed because thats what they said. Most fleets that formed up back then build themselves up to be federation, with the announcement they kinda are stuck, if they convert to Klingon they risk losing people who were happy being Fed. So the Klingon player base is still quite young in comparison.

As for a 3rd faction, it could be put in post-launch, it'd be interesting and depending on the game mechanics they'd have to consider hard how to do it. If its Romulans I assure you I'll play them (though I'm probably going to start the game as a Klingon) as will many others. Depending on the race I would expect to see a population flux, especialy if its romulans... we already have romulan fleets and they arnt even playable!

Sadly though I think that pop-flux would be stunded by players who wouldn't want to leave their old fleets behind and friends. It seemed to work ok in CoV when they launched it but I will point out (as a lev 50 MM villian) the population on CoV was always stunted in comparison to Heros. On the other hand though Cryptic was good at creating a pvp/pve enviornment that didn't support numbers but rather skill and orginization, more than once I was in pvp battles where we beat the pants off of those silly super heroes bwahaha!

[Lendosan]

It doesn't matter if we outnumber them, THEY HAVE CLOAKING DEVICES!!!!!

In seriousness, I very much doubt the population of each side will determine who does what in PvP. I think it'll be level terms. Unless they go the way of LOTRO and it can be a tad stupid sometimes.

[Aametherar]

"We must not allow a mineshaft gap!"

[joseramon]

It dosent matter at all that Federation guys outnumbers the Klingon Empire...I guess the problem will be that Klingons outnumbers the Federation..then we have a serious problem...

[Aametherar]

It dosent matter at all that Federation guys outnumbers the Klingon Empire...I guess the problem will be that Klingons outnumbers the Federation..then we have a serious problem...

You clearly havn't played ST games or been around the ST community much. The common preference is actually terran. Wierd ill admit, but true. Dosn't make sense to me either, I hate humans blech ~ptooey ptooey~

[starbuck1771]

If Defiants can't cloak, I'm going Klingon.


Unless the UFP & RSE are now allies and have worked out a new agreement. You will not see cloaking defiants. There were only two the prototype that was destroyed which was the only authorized cloaking device due to a treaty with the romulans. The other was the illegal one use by section 49 or whatever that rogue UFP group was called.

[demonic25]

I ALWAYS opt for the side that i deam "evil" cause the truth of life is this - - Being bad is soo much cooler :) IMHO of course haha

FOR THE EMPIRE!

[Aogos]

I'll go Klingon too, the music in the films is so much better when the Klingons turn up :)