See cryptic.......

[Falin]

you announce a "for the mssses" concept and suddenly we have millions of "wow in space" posts all over the place.

now I'm enjoying seeing this IP make it to MMO status, but after digesting the debut, I'm really having a lot of reservations on some of the "traditional" MMO concepts you're slapping in the game.

"Fleets" sorry to see that your catering to the msses on this one. the way i see it, ST is organized into fleets, but they should not be player run. if you follow ST in any way, you'll see fleets are preset and work in specific spots. "the first fletet works near earth area, the 250th fleet works near say the cardasian border" Player run fleets would eb all over the placeand wouldn't even follow conventional fleet naming standards. my solution, ignore the "player fleet" concept and have NPC's run "Fleets" and Bases. Players could still group guilds togetehr in something more akin to being a Taskforce that works together within a fleet area.

movement: not sure on this, as we haven't gotten more details, but the whole transwarp idea is ok, as long as it doesn't turn itno an overused and instant travel deal. i just hope thatyou don't use the CoX" tram system for these.

Galaxy setup: again, need more information on how you plan to use regions and hwo you pla to dynamically add content as players explore.

Ship customization: "Flames", "coloring", "naming", I'm sorry all this leads to bad ideas. ships should be static looking on the outside 2 players flying 2 NoVa's should not have draastically different looking exteriors. now if onehad 2 more Phasers than the other, i'd expect that to be vsible, but no Falmes, decals, and other junk. and Player naming ships is dumb for many reasons, and we all know what those are already.

Bridge crew Pets: do i really need to say anything here? we've been touting for cooperative bridges for over 5 years now. why can't players have a chjoie here, pick up 4 other players for their bridge crew or pick up a couple of NPC's to fill a slot or two?

"everyones a captain": we've seen the discussions on this, so i won't rehash how this goes against the IP overall.


overall, for seeig the posts coming about since the debut, it's obvious the masses have heard your call and are here, but i shouldn't have to remind you that the masses that you dumb down games for do not tend to last longer than when the next new MMO is launched. by not dumbing down the game and bringing the game up to over average, you'll draw more players that will play for longer than the "quick switchers" crowd.

You still have Time to change the course and head for space instead of skimming the planet, get out of the atmosphere and give us something great and not just another medicore MMO that looks like ST but has all the trappings of a fantasy MMO.

[KO_Gilligan]

Ease up - Falin

While I have seen your posts be less than agreeable... you don't need to fall into the grips with those who start long heartfelt disgust threads.

There's still time to respectfully disagree.

I'll make you a deal - I'll agreee that even though they are making a game that seems fun to me, they may, in fact, be going in the wrong direction on every issue I believe in - and in return you could realize the same thing, even if just on a few issues, on the game NOT being a failure for not doing the things you believe in.

[Falin]

Ease up - Falin

While I have seen your posts be less than agreeable... you don't need to fall into the grips with those who start long heartfelt disgust threads.

There's still time to respectfully disagree.

I'll make you a deal - I'll agreee that even though they are making a game that seems fun to me, they may, in fact, be going in the wrong direction on every issue I believe in - and in return you could realize the same thing, even if just on a few issues, on the game NOT being a failure for not doing the things you believe in.

didn't say i was totally disagreeable, just feel that dumbing down the game is a bad idea.

[ReynoldsXD]

No player run bridges by default ,optional hell yeah, suit yourself.

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

didn't say i was totally disagreeable, just feel that dumbing down the game is a bad idea.

Using an expression like "dumbing down" is at best self-indulgent egotism. How would you like it if I described your ideal game as "nerding it up for shut-ins and social misfits"?

[Crazyfist]

If you say we should have a taskforce then that is your opinion

But i think a task force of 100+ members is a little large for a task force.

[LordDave]

"Fleets" sorry to see that your catering to the msses on this one. the way i see it, ST is organized into fleets, but they should not be player run. if you follow ST in any way, you'll see fleets are preset and work in specific spots. "the first fletet works near earth area, the 250th fleet works near say the cardasian border" Player run fleets would eb all over the placeand wouldn't even follow conventional fleet naming standards. my solution, ignore the "player fleet" concept and have NPC's run "Fleets" and Bases. Players could still group guilds togetehr in something more akin to being a Taskforce that works together within a fleet area.

While I do agree that, in a military organization, this is the case, the issue is that they need something to get together many, many players and a fleet is what they have to work with. It's unrealistic I know, but sometimes realism (even fictional realism) needs to be bent for gameplay.


movement: not sure on this, as we haven't gotten more details, but the whole transwarp idea is ok, as long as it doesn't turn itno an overused and instant travel deal. i just hope thatyou don't use the CoX" tram system for these.

What was wrong with the CoX tram system? You go on and it takes you to another zone. Granted it was instant travel, but by when 5 load screens when you only need 1?

Ship customization: "Flames", "coloring", "naming", I'm sorry all this leads to bad ideas. ships should be static looking on the outside 2 players flying 2 NoVa's should not have draastically different looking exteriors. now if onehad 2 more Phasers than the other, i'd expect that to be vsible, but no Falmes, decals, and other junk. and Player naming ships is dumb for many reasons, and we all know what those are already.

I agree with the decals full heartedly, but we might as well let them keep their own names, if only to keep the peace. Besides, at some point, people will run out of things to name their ships. It's weird, but in the end, it has to be done least we put in a finite naming system, which limits.


Bridge crew Pets: do i really need to say anything here? we've been touting for cooperative bridges for over 5 years now. why can't players have a chjoie here, pick up 4 other players for their bridge crew or pick up a couple of NPC's to fill a slot or two?

Aren't 4 of those years PE? and PE has what done?
Hell, if PE figured out how to do Player Bridge Crews then Cryptic would have done it. How do I know?
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6508
That explains my reasoning well.


overall, for seeig the posts coming about since the debut, it's obvious the masses have heard your call and are here, but i shouldn't have to remind you that the masses that you dumb down games for do not tend to last longer than when the next new MMO is launched. by not dumbing down the game and bringing the game up to over average, you'll draw more players that will play for longer than the "quick switchers" crowd.

You still have Time to change the course and head for space instead of skimming the planet, get out of the atmosphere and give us something great and not just another medicore MMO that looks like ST but has all the trappings of a fantasy MMO.

In the end, it really begs the question: Are they dumbing it down? Or are they just keeping things as open as they can? Yes the USS n00bz is going to make me cring, but so does a Paladin whose name is z33t. It's just the way the online world works.

[AaronH]

Really want to take the time to fully dissect your post and give my thoughts on all of it, but don't have time, so here are some key points:

Fleets: This is one of those things where canon has never been 100% clear. Often times we see ships working in drastically different theatres, and even if that sort of thing is unusually or capable of being explained, it still doesn't really work for an MMO experience. I can accept this change. When it comes to naming conventions I think the best way to handle it is to have each fleet have an official designation, and then each fleet has a "nickname," which is player chosen.

Taskforces: Great name for in game teams.

Movement: Jack said that you would be able to get anywhere in the galaxy just by flying, but the Transwarp gates would allow you to move between certain locations much more rapidly. Sounds good to me. I personally hope it is a web like system, where you go to one hub linked up to several smaller hubs, which in turn link up to several smaller exit points around the galaxy.

Ship Customization: I like it. Visually it does not bother me at all. I am reminded of a moment in the first Halo books where it is commented that one of the major characters ships has a racing stripe on it, which is completely against regulation, it added a little uniqueness to the chracter, and when the shipyard workers offered to repaint the stripe after the ship sutained battle damage it kindof made the strip a sort of badge of honor. In context, i think ship customization is fine. As for flames: While I won't be painting these on mystarship, I would totally paint flames on the side of one of my shuttles. I think the paint jobs though will be more subdued, like choosing where to put the flying V, or stripes, or the ships registry and name, that sort of thing.

Players Naming Ships: Isn't inherintly dumb, it is what players might name their ships that is dumb. However, I am willing to wear my blinders to be able to name my ships in a personal and unique way.

You say "We've been asking" but it is important to note that while there are a very vocal group that want some of the things you ask for, there is also a group that either doesn't care one way or the other, or doesn't want what you want. The difference is that you are fighting against what cryptic is saying, whereas those who like what cryptic has said are satisfyed and aren't going to spend their time fighting a battle they have already won.

[Zaydrache]

I’m sorry but bashing on a game with so little information is a little petty. The former developer tried to make a game closer to what you are looking for and failed. Now the new developer is trying to make a truly memorable game that everyone enjoys and people are calling foul.

Player crews are fun for about 3 people per ship about 70% of the time. The rest of the time what is everyone going to do. You ever see the episodes that so the later crew rotations. You know the ones where 2 people are watching the bridge bored out of their minds but know they can’t leave their posts because a warbird might decloak right in front of them but never does. Is that really the game you want to play? Great fun and excitement in combat but out of combat you get nothing because you need to keep watch encase something happens.

At least the current build has it so from how it sounds the "Captain" can go around the ship doing stuff and let the npcs worry about the ship sometimes so he or she or because it is star trek it can go around and do missions onboard the ship. It keeps the game interesting the entire time and allows the player some downtime without staring at a display the entire time. I have posted this challenge in many post but haven't seen a response yet. If you truly think there should be pc crews tell me what that crew would be doing while not in combat or in another encounter.

[Dext]

Both sides do have a point. Having Player crew would be fun (some of the time) an Having NPC crews would be to.

But I see have player crew like this, What is 1 of the crew gos LD you would take it place np but what if 2,3,4 go LD an your in a PvP fight or on a mission that has a timer can you cant go back to get new crew.

NPC's are a safe thing for them to do at the start of the game now after I can see them adding it where players can be your crew we just dont know yet.

Not having players on your ships as crew(or you on there ship as crew) I dont see how that takes it away from being a MMO. Look at EvE your on your ship with no crew but that is an MMO an that dont stop players from grouping. In SWG:JTLS I have taken my POB ships up in space solo for loot a lot (but not solo in PVP).

In other MMO's like WoW an so on you control your toon not you an 5 other people but that is a MMO. Now the point of saying that was you are on your ship an when your flying it with your with your NPC crew you are the ship. An there have been a lot of people saying with out players as crew it is not a MMO and that is like saying with out a group of people controlling your toon in a game like WoW it is not a MMO.

I am not saying that is what you all are saying but I have seen other post like that.

[Severix]

As far as the ship customization thing gos I can’t agree with you more. Flame decals, lightning bolts, fireballs etc. as decals for example, if allowed, you’d see if for sure and that would destroy the whole ambiance of the game. Naming your own ship… REAL BAD IDEA… cause you just know some joker out there will name his ship something like the U.S.S. Longdongsilver… or something like that. There would have to be strict control on this portion in order to maintain the feel of Star Trek. Although there is hope, I do believe that Jack stated something along the lines of “limited” customization… perhaps Cryptic was thinking along the same lines as others on this subject.

[KO_Gilligan]

As far as the ship customization thing gos I can’t agree with you more. Flame decals, lightning bolts, fireballs etc. as decals for example, if allowed, you’d see if for sure and that would destroy the whole ambiance of the game. Naming your own ship… REAL BAD IDEA… cause you just know some joker out there will name his ship something like the U.S.S. Longdongsilver… or something like that. There would have to be strict control on this portion in order to maintain the feel of Star Trek. Although there is hope, I do believe that Jack stated something along the lines of “limited” customization… perhaps Cryptic was thinking along the same lines as others on this subject.

As soon as the highly customizable issue came up I think we all sat up like a tribe of meerkats who just heard the danger call.

After considering this issue, I have concluded that they are going to attempt every kind of wild "Monster Trek" customizable option :eek: - and then edit down our choices until it looks like Star Trek again :D

[Weyouns]

Using an expression like "dumbing down" is at best self-indulgent egotism. How would you like it if I described your ideal game as "nerding it up for shut-ins and social misfits"?

best post on here /\
l

[AaronH]

As soon as the highly customizable issue came up I think we all sat up like a tribe of meerkats who just heard the danger call.

After considering this issue, I have concluded that they are going to attempt every kind of wild "Monster Trek" customizable option :eek: - and then edit down our choices until it looks like Star Trek again :D

Just as long as I can have a shuttle with flames painted on the side....

And a set of chrome spinner 22's.....

And some fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview.

[Keldaria]

you announce a "for the mssses" concept and suddenly we have millions of "wow in space" posts all over the place.

now I'm enjoying seeing this IP make it to MMO status, but after digesting the debut, I'm really having a lot of reservations on some of the "traditional" MMO concepts you're slapping in the game.

Me Personally I don't like wow. Never really Did. I too would havta agree that I'd like to see some big new Idea's and would hate to see this game made from a "WoW in space" perspective. However so far I've not seen anything that would suggest thats what they're doing.

"Fleets" sorry to see that your catering to the msses on this one. the way i see it, ST is organized into fleets, but they should not be player run. if you follow ST in any way, you'll see fleets are preset and work in specific spots. "the first fletet works near earth area, the 250th fleet works near say the cardasian border" Player run fleets would eb all over the placeand wouldn't even follow conventional fleet naming standards. my solution, ignore the "player fleet" concept and have NPC's run "Fleets" and Bases. Players could still group guilds togetehr in something more akin to being a Taskforce that works together within a fleet area.

I think your splitting hairs here my friend. for all it matters they could call guilds a pack. Its just a name. As far as how fleets were organized in the series. Yes 1st fleet was a defence fleet for sector 001 but Fleets arn't organized by sector or distance from sector 001 But rather they are organized by Common Goals and Named / Numbered Accordingly with those goals in mind, And just because 1st Fleets Primary Objective is the protection of Earth and all Surrounding Systems. That doesn't mean that the operation of it would cause its fleet commander to send scout / intel vessels to the farthest reaches of the galaxy in order to gain intel on threats to their goal. Defence Fleets arn't the only fleets the exsist ether, there are also Science/Research Fleets, Terraforming/Construction-engineering fleets, Diplomacy Fleets (which would consentrate on safe passage for diplomats and imporving relations within and outside the federation) There are a number of ways to describe a fleet and I think that using them as Guilds would be spot on.

As for Taskforce, yes they'll likely be included as the word for group. But honestly its all just a name as long as it makes alittle sence then it works


movement: not sure on this, as we haven't gotten more details, but the whole transwarp idea is ok, as long as it doesn't turn itno an overused and instant travel deal. i just hope thatyou don't use the CoX" tram system for these..

Instant Travel isn't bad just aslong as they don't get carried away with it and make everything instant.. same with the opposite. Slower zone by zone travel isn't bad but they can't take it too far to the extent that you spend 2 hours tring to meet up with your "Group"

Galaxy setup: again, need more information on how you plan to use regions and hwo you pla to dynamically add content as players explore..

Its a Mystery =)

Ship customization: "Flames", "coloring", "naming", I'm sorry all this leads to bad ideas. ships should be static looking on the outside 2 players flying 2 NoVa's should not have draastically different looking exteriors. now if onehad 2 more Phasers than the other, i'd expect that to be vsible, but no Falmes, decals, and other junk. and Player naming ships is dumb for many reasons, and we all know what those are already.

well when it comes to coloring on federation ships .. i'm with you, they should all be a pretty standard color. But Decals for fleets would be acceptable in my book. and Naming works for me too. There are way to many people out there with good starship names and lots of personal history behind it. I see no reason they can't have their names even if it means we'll get a few goofy ones from people with an 8 yr old mental capasity.

Bridge crew Pets: do i really need to say anything here? we've been touting for cooperative bridges for over 5 years now. why can't players have a chjoie here, pick up 4 other players for their bridge crew or pick up a couple of NPC's to fill a slot or two?

"everyones a captain": we've seen the discussions on this, so i won't rehash how this goes against the IP overall.

Npc crewmembers is something that was unavoidable. Cooperative Bridge Crews is something that always seems like a great idea and something fun but in all honesty the experience would truely leave alot to be desired in a Video Game. A Player that only controls the movement of the ship might be fun for alittle while but in general it would be pretty simplistic and boring unless you were in the middle of a fire fight which "Isn't what star trek is about" Same with the tactical position, Unless you were using them in a fight you'd be pretty much standing there, and even while using them in a fight it would be "line up arc A - Fire arc A, Line up arc B - Fire are B" with very little to actually do. I guess what I'm saying is that they each have their place when it would be extremmely fun to just be this or that but once you step outside that relm your just along for the ride. Same with Captian for player crewed bridges, They would be just a backseat driver ether telling players to do something their already doing anyways or just watching. Only a few 100% loyalist would ever play this way for any extended period of time because its 90% boredom broken up with 10% excitement.

Also I don't see how everyone being a captain goes agianst the IP. There are hundrads of thousands of captians in the ST universe. They came from all sorts of differant backgrounds. You'll still be able to specialize in engineering or Science or medical. You'll just have an NPC crew tagging along for the ride.

[ Sarcasm ] In truth if you truely want to rise threw the ranks, be part of a crew, maybe become captian .. maybe just be a janitor. they've already have a simulation out there for you. Its called the Navy. I hear you even get payed to play there too. it has all the fun you've been waiting for like standing at the helm waiting for the order to turn it to the left and adjustspeed. you can even fix things when they get broken.. i'm telling you its great :D [ / Sarcasm ]

overall, for seeig the posts coming about since the debut, it's obvious the masses have heard your call and are here, but i shouldn't have to remind you that the masses that you dumb down games for do not tend to last longer than when the next new MMO is launched. by not dumbing down the game and bringing the game up to over average, you'll draw more players that will play for longer than the "quick switchers" crowd.

You still have Time to change the course and head for space instead of skimming the planet, get out of the atmosphere and give us something great and not just another medicore MMO that looks like ST but has all the trappings of a fantasy MMO.


I can understand where your coming from but I think Cryptic is spot on so far and they've yet to prove me wrong that this game won't be a great MMO.