View Full Version : Captaining a ship =/= Captain.
USS_Parallax
08-09-2008, 10:56 AM
Right now it might just be denial since I want clear Star Trek ranks. But we've seen Captains that aren't literally of the Captain Rank. Maybe that's what they're talking about. We've seen smaller ships Captained by lower ranks and sometimes no rank.
marshalleck
08-09-2008, 10:58 AM
Call the rank and/or position whatever you want. Call it a jelly donut if you want; If it's one player stuck on a ship with an NPC crew it's going to stink.
Raceaddict
08-09-2008, 10:59 AM
If you go back a couple of hundred years to the Royal Navy, that was the way it worked... even if someone hadn't attained the rank of Captain, if they were given command of a vessel, they were still the "captain" of that ship.
arakkis
08-09-2008, 11:02 AM
Call the rank and/or position whatever you want. Call it a jelly donut if you want; If it's one player stuck on a ship with an NPC crew it's going to stink.
No. I don't want to have to spam a looking for crew channel for an hour because I can't find a chief engineer. Having an NPC crew that you can upgrade, recruit, and train will be fantastic.
Sarevok
08-09-2008, 11:06 AM
No. I don't want to have to spam a looking for crew channel for an hour because I can't find a chief engineer. Having an NPC crew that you can upgrade, recruit, and train will be fantastic.
IMO, it would be best to be able to do both...
marshalleck
08-09-2008, 11:07 AM
No. I don't want to have to spam a looking for crew channel for an hour because I can't find a chief engineer. Having an NPC crew that you can upgrade, recruit, and train will be fantastic.
Great, I am sure there are plenty of single-player offline RPG games that would cater specifically to your soloist needs.
lootra
08-09-2008, 11:11 AM
wow, you desperately want full player crews, id struggle to find 400 people for my galaxy class...
lol
Right now it might just be denial since I want clear Star Trek ranks. But we've seen Captains that aren't literally of the Captain Rank. Maybe that's what they're talking about. We've seen smaller ships Captained by lower ranks and sometimes no rank.
Its like the real navy.
Some ships are commanded by Lt. Cmdrs, others by Admirals. Starfleet is no different.
A rule of thumb is....
Frigates, Destroyers, and small research vessels, commander by LTs, and Lt. Cmdrs.
Larger ships Cmdrs and above.
Cyjack
08-09-2008, 11:53 AM
wow, you desperately want full player crews, id struggle to find 400 people for my galaxy class...
They don't know what they want. All they have is some imaginary make believe never never land vision of a dream game in their heads that they think would be practical and effective, where players work together to control a starship, simply because they think they can imagine it.
Even though there's no precedent for such a game anywhere, and even though they haven't given an ounce of thought to the logistical problems , and practical issues of such a game, and budgetary concerns for developing such a game.
Don't worry, they'll get bored soon enough and go cry in a corner somewhere, while the rest of us and a large percentage of the mainstream public who will also be interested in this game, are having a blast with our starships.
BarondeFaille
08-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Whoever sits in the big chair is Captain regardless of rank
Yavin_Prime
08-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Honestly don't be upset if your in pure denial. Let me give you an example of a game that everyone knows a little about: Tabula Rasa. The games story states that everyone is in the AFS military, but as to what rank they never tell you. What they tell you is that your "receptive" to the power called "logos" and because of that your not a normal tropper like the NPCs.
Personaly I agree hopefuly they used the term "captain" just to signify that players would be in command of their ship, but on the other end ranks may not be supported as a Ensign would have to take orders from a "true" captain. With that said look on the brightside of things, your Fleet/Guild could support ranks :D
lordoffiling
08-09-2008, 12:11 PM
I have to agree with what the one guy said. The ideal to me would be, be able to have an NPC crew when you're alone, but be able to have players beam aboard and occupy key positions aboard your ship when you wish.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the maximum group size in the game is 8 people. I would rather think of a more robust system than typical group sizes, but... anyway, let's say it's 8.
Now, let's say you have one group of 8 and they're all aboard one ship, working together.
Then, let's say you have another group of 8, but they're all aboard their own ships working with their NPC crews, so there are 8 ships in their group.
Now, what you have is a situation where these two groups of eight square off and fight each other. In one group, you have 1 ship with eight players aboard. In the other group, you have 8 ships with 1 player each aboard.
The goal, IMHO, would be to arrange the game so that the fight above I just described would be evenly matched, because while the 1 ship is outnumbered 8 to 1, it has a far better crew aboard.
Just me thinkin'.
exracon
08-09-2008, 12:12 PM
Thank you for making this thread, before I had to make it. Most people on these forums apparently aren't too bright.
exracon
08-09-2008, 12:14 PM
ack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew.
Seriously are people on this forum blind??????????????????????????
You can be a captain of a ship without being an actual captain. Data was a captain of a nebula class ship in one episode.
Arcturus
08-09-2008, 12:25 PM
I think that having it the way it (looks to be) Defeats the feel of the shows, movies, books, it defeats everything except Star Trek: Legacy. Maybe if my crew can talk to me like in 25th Anniversary we can put a board over this pothole.
IcarusTyler
08-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Taking rl-military to base this:
Being the "Captain" is a job. Holding the rank of Captain does NOT give you your own ship, and having an own does NOT mean you have to be of the rank of captain.
Also, there were instances in ST were people as low as CADETS were given commissions for the time being because it was so damn necessary.
BewareofDawg
08-09-2008, 01:31 PM
I would want to see npc crew but with the option to bring SOME people into your ship to perform tasks if it is their wish to do so. Helps alot for the RP aspect and brings it into realistic terms as far as too many/too little people.
Fluxion
08-09-2008, 01:32 PM
No. I don't want to have to spam a looking for crew channel for an hour because I can't find a chief engineer. Having an NPC crew that you can upgrade, recruit, and train will be fantastic.
Ditto! I just hope that, -if- you want to man those stations with live players, that you have that option. There are a lot of people who want that. But for me? I'm totally happy with NPCs on my ship. I don't have to argue with them, coordinate with them, etc. I can just tell my NPC communications officer to "open hailing frequencies" with that other PC ship, and speak with the player-captain there. He does what he wants with his ship, and I do what I want with mine. :D
ianobs
08-09-2008, 01:34 PM
who has jelly doughnuts?
Fluxion
08-09-2008, 01:38 PM
Taking rl-military to base this:
Being the "Captain" is a job. Holding the rank of Captain does NOT give you your own ship, and having an own does NOT mean you have to be of the rank of captain.
Also, there were instances in ST were people as low as CADETS were given commissions for the time being because it was so damn necessary.
Exactly true. Too many posters keep forgetting that Spock and Scotty both held the rank of Captain, but neither captained their own ships.
IcarusTyler
08-09-2008, 01:41 PM
I would want to see npc crew but with the option to bring SOME people into your ship to perform tasks if it is their wish to do so. Helps alot for the RP aspect and brings it into realistic terms as far as too many/too little people.
I hope it is that way.
So if I want to venture alone I'll have my trusty NPC-crew, and If I want to tag along with some freinds I'll sure be happy to show them my ship or be a part of their crew.
Varrangian
08-09-2008, 01:43 PM
They don't know what they want. All they have is some imaginary make believe never never land vision of a dream game in their heads that they think would be practical and effective, where players work together to control a starship, simply because they think they can imagine it.
Even though there's no precedent for such a game anywhere, and even though they haven't given an ounce of thought to the logistical problems , and practical issues of such a game, and budgetary concerns for developing such a game.
Don't worry, they'll get bored soon enough and go cry in a corner somewhere, while the rest of us and a large percentage of the mainstream public who will also be interested in this game, are having a blast with our starships.
You know I've found few I'd like to crew with (if possible), but you're welcome on my ship any time ;-)
Litintha
08-09-2008, 01:54 PM
One doesn't necessarily have to be the rank of "Captain" to be the CO (Commanding Officer) of a vessel/station.
Look at Sisco. He held the rank of Commander, but he was the CO of Deep Space Nine.
That in itself only goes to prove that rank isn't too much of a factor when it comes to commanding something.
Gabsau
08-09-2008, 01:57 PM
According to the new Gamespy Article (http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-trek-online/897733p1.html), Jack has NOT ruled out team play. Cryptic have announced that when the game is released the core gameplay mechanic will be everyone manning their own ship with a NPC crew.
However, he also suggested that team play might be available in a later patch or expansion - and that they will look into it later. The reason for this is because of the many technical hurdles and issues they are trying to sort out in developing a player manned ship.
In other words, don't write off this game straight away - I'm sure as time goes on they'll announce more details about this mechanic and may possibly add it in the future.
Varrangian
08-09-2008, 01:59 PM
One doesn't necessarily have to be the rank of "Captain" to be the CO (Commanding Officer) of a vessel/station.
Look at Sisco. He held the rank of Commander, but he was the CO of Deep Space Nine.
That in itself only goes to prove that rank isn't too much of a factor when it comes to commanding something.
I've said this over and over again, but some people don't seem to care to read or think I'm lying. BUT In the real world Navy, officers as low as Lt. have commanded ships. Right now the newest toy the Navy has (The littoral combat ship) is being commanded by a Lt. Commander.
The rank of Captain is not what makes one a Captain of ship.
Litintha
08-09-2008, 02:07 PM
I've said this over and over again, but some people don't seem to care to read or think I'm lying. BUT In the real world Navy, officers as low as Lt. have commanded ships. Right now the newest toy the Navy has (The littoral combat ship) is being commanded by a Lt. Commander.
The rank of Captain is not what makes one a Captain of ship.
So...
You are agreeing with what I have said or not?
:-)
Mattastic
08-09-2008, 02:17 PM
Wow, that guy on the first page really needs to chill out. "Soloist"? He says it with all the venom of "communist"!
To be honest, I get the impression that the game's captaining system will be much like that of the small-time MMO Puzzle Pirates (much fun). While in that game it was (when I was playing, at least) quite hard to aquire a ship, fact was that most regular players ended up with at least one. It was possible to sail solo, and NPCs would fill the necessary onboard positions, but only be able to perform them to a certain standard. PCs could be brought aboard instead -- regardless of if they had their own ship! Being a captain had no bearing on your ability to serve on anyone else's ship. Hell, we used to have huge pillages with dozens of people on a very large ship, many of whom were a lot more senior and/or experienced than the person designated as captain.
Good times.
Anyway, I suspect STO will be a lot like that. You'll be utterly free to abandon your Sacagawea for a few hours while you go galavanting around with some guys on their bright shiney new Norway. Ships increasingly sound a lot less like mere mounts. Ideally, they should be social arenas, gaming platforms and a personal space. They're not an EVE-like device for getting from A to B, merely because you'd look silly trying to swim through a vacuum in a spacesuit -- but a dynamic and mercifully portable kind of player housing, guild hall and hangout all rolled into one, and through which players interact with space.
Varrangian
08-09-2008, 02:26 PM
So...
You are agreeing with what I have said or not?
:-)
Yes very much! Sorry any frustration in my post was not aimed at you :P
You can't fly your ship without a crew (unless it's just a shuttle or something). You can't start a new game with a player crew, because you will need to find the players first in order to compose your player crew. So an NPC crew to start with seems inevitable. What I hope is we will be able to replace the NPC crew by actual players.
This meaning we would have full ship interiors, with bridge, engine room, crew quarters, hollodecks,... even jefreys tubes. I imagine this would be the best way to proceed in making this MMO, but we'll just see about that when we get more info.
Captain_Intrepid
08-09-2008, 02:28 PM
wow, you desperately want full player crews, id struggle to find 400 people for my galaxy class...
lol
Constitution-class ships had a crew of 430.
Galaxy-class ships had a combined crew and passengers of 1,012, and I remember it being said that it had a larger number of crewmembers onboard than the Constitution class ship.
So, yeah, it'd be a struggle to fill out the crew portion of the ship by sending invites, tells and broadcasting it out. :eek: