Who Wants a "Proper" MMORPG?

[Arokh72]

Cryptic have made their decision in how the game will start, which really gives an idea of it's "future". The quote to support this (lifted of another thread here) is "Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."

Now complaining won't get us anywhere really as Cryptic are the devs and typical of most companies they are looking at the $$$$ and not what the fans want. So I'm just after a show of "hands" as it were, of others here who would have preferred a more enriched, simulated type RPG where for e.g. you start off at Starfleet Academy (or the Klingon equivalent) as a Cadet and work through the ranks to achieve your own ship and captaincy later in the game, and even have the opportunity to not captain but be a specialist in your chosen career e.g. Chief Engineer.

[boydyma]

seriously mate, lets just wait to see how *small* these ships are.....

AND i'd have to say we all start of at the academy or the alien equivalent of: call it the *n00b training phase*...

i am optimistic. wait for monday, and we can whinge all we want then
(and when i mean monday, look at his timezone, we will see this at about 7-7:30 in the AM on monday morning)

[Rath]

/signed

I want the idea from PE, you are a member of 1 startship with a perticular role to play... even when PE were desiging the game, on the website they had an engineering control panel made with flash to give you an idea of what the game will be like if you were an engineer etc... i was very excited when i used that...

Oh well, its a crap world, maybe ill win the lottery and fund some company to do it anyways! :D

Rath :cool:

[Yezar]

I vote for a proper MMO as I'd thought this was going to be.The thought of starting as a captain is not a good one for me. I guess it won't matter though as long as the story lines and game play are good. We'll all just have to adopt a wait and see attitude. Take a look at how WoW and EQ have changed over the years.

[Arokh72]

I mean no ships at all right at the beginning, not even a shuttle craft. Each "mission" you would need to be shuttled to, similar to the basic long distance flight models used in other MMO's, and that your first shuttle craft would be like your first "mount" again as other MMO's have it.....though perhaps not as late as say WoW at release. Besides many P platers have issues driving cars I hate to see them commanding even a small ship.

[ArtfulDodger]

I also got that info sent to me via mail and it left me feeling kinda down :( i suppose i'm still hoping that there will be diffrent proffesions in the game, but they way that reads it definitely lacks diversity if everyone is a captian.

To me its sounding more like Bridge commander but online :S


Here's a thought for you, if we are all Captians, who's incharge on an away mission, who's the medic, ect...


Bah !!!!!

[ArtfulDodger]

seriously mate, lets just wait to see how *small* these ships are.....



The time to moan is now this is what the forums are for to air your opinion.

Do it your way and oooo i feel another SOE comming on.

[shapeless79]

T
Do it your way and oooo i feel anothe SOE comming on.

And I only just finished getting over the last one...bah... :p

[antiquechrono]

Seriously, some of the game play ideas floating around are just outright inane.

Do you know what you do in Starfleet Academy?

It's the equivalent to college except much broader. So if you really really really just have to simulate taking those astrophysics exams at the Academy then there is what you do.

Buy The Sims 2....

Buy the university expansion....

Make a Star Trek mod...

Have fun pretending to go to class...

[Ramierez]

Seriously, some of the game play ideas floating around are just outright inane.

Do you know what you do in Starfleet Academy?

It's the equivalent to college except much broader. So if you really really really just have to simulate taking those astrophysics exams at the Academy then there is what you do.

Buy The Sims 2....

Buy the university expansion....

Make a Star Trek mod...

Have fun pretending to go to class...

Yea, I'm really sure that the person was saying that they want us to sit through virtual classes based on science and theories that don't even exist yet. /sarcasm

Starting at the Academy would be the same as a tutorial where you attend 'classes' based on the core gameplay elements.

[boydyma]

The time to moan is now this is what the forums are for to air your opinion.

Do it your way and oooo i feel anothe SOE comming on.


hey you can moan all you want, but you're only going to look like an idiot if the game comes out and it isnt what was said in an interview with the press which was obviously dumbed down... lasers and missiles!~? lol

look, freedom of speech and all that, i was only offering my advice. the game isnt released yet, and it will only be in-game vids on monday (my time). THEN ill be firing up the whinge generator. not now... just wait and see what the reveal show us. then we can march on CS' head office and protest all we want, or play a game that makes happy trekkers

[KO_Gilligan]

Starting at the Academy would be the same as a tutorial where you attend 'classes' based on the core gameplay elements.

and it would not be the game. It would be the tutorial.

If it took me more than 30 minutes for the entire in-game controls run through - because I'm trying to learn how to balance the Anti-Matter containment grids (that I will have to utilize on every mission).

I'm not making it through my free trial.

On the other hand, Serious Joe Role Play would get his 3 weeks at the Academy and on his second Engineering class he would say "There are no Anti-Matter Grid Controls like this in the REAL STAR TREK" and he would not make it through his free trial either.

My point is that even if Cryptic wanted to make an increadibly immersive and authentic RP experience, there would be inevitable shortcommings - major shortcommings - in trying to create such a world (it would be a suicidal business plan).


I think to be fair, once we see how customizable the players experiences are, it may not be Role Play or the game many wanted, but it may be in-depth and could be modified to ones liking.

[ArtfulDodger]

hey you can moan all you want, but you're only going to look like an idiot

I think that goes for you because if the game comes out better than we thought, we'll that means ive done my job right and they have listen'd to me moaning and have done somthing about it :eek:

dont get me wrong, i'd love this game to be the best mmorpg ever made ,just hard to sit back and wait when this game has been snatch from us before :(

[boydyma]

i reckon KO just hit the nail on the head. you aint in business yourself are you? :p

*EDIT*

Artful, you actually think they listen to a handful of ranting fans>?

no to be honest, they will listen if a whole community gets up in arms about the content once they have released in the star trek convention, and everyone realises that they are trying to sell an under-budget game to the trekky masses to make a buck.
but i dont seriously think they would do that, after all isnt jack a trekky himself?

[ArtfulDodger]

One can hope they will listen to the looney on the street corner :P

[Will_Lucky]

I prefer PE's idea, but I am willing to wait until this gameplay video and then make my judgement.

[Dext]

/signed

I want the idea from PE, you are a member of 1 startship with a perticular role to play... even when PE were desiging the game, on the website they had an engineering control panel made with flash to give you an idea of what the game will be like if you were an engineer etc... i was very excited when i used that...

Oh well, its a crap world, maybe ill win the lottery and fund some company to do it anyways! :D

Rath :cool:

where you get that info dude at lvl 6 you got your fist ship with PE/P2

[Katana]

its prolly just me, but those screenies do not impress me at all.:mad: if this is the end game, i do not think ill be part of the game, no matter how long i've been waitin for it or how much i love ST anything.

i used to play EVE Online and see it evolve as it were and the graphics of that game although brought out 5 years ago are much better than this. not to mention the latest graphic upgrade of the game makin it
up-to-date and strong competition for any existing games now and ahead, [cant help but think on those screenies again].

and no this is not the first time i see screenies, but if they wont improve ill just concentrate on D3! :(

ttyAl,
Kat.

[Dext]

its prolly just me, but those screenies do not impress me at all.:mad: if this is the end game, i do not think ill be part of the game, no matter how long i've been waitin for it or how much i love ST anything.

i used to play EVE Online and see it evolve as it were and the graphics of that game although brought out 5 years ago are much better than this. not to mention the latest graphic upgrade of the game makin it
up-to-date and strong competition for any existing games now and ahead, [cant help but think on those screenies again].

and no this is not the first time i see screenies, but if they wont improve ill just concentrate on D3! :(

ttyAl,
Kat.

there not polished yet that is Alpha screen shots. Age of Conan's look just as bad

[KO_Gilligan]

I know this will be fun to play.

I like the way this news story played out... whether it was intentional or not - I liked the fact that some AP details surfaced in the mainstream that were never heard on the Star Trek sites, and the fact that it included the "Laser and Missiles" slip. I loved it all.

It makes me think Cryptic grabbed this license and decided it was going to be done their way, and they aren't gonna tip-toe around a bunch of beligerant fans.

If this was the intent of the news release, I really wouldn't know. But I'm guessing it wasn't at all.

On the other hand, I think it symbolizes that position perfectly.

[boydyma]

One can hope they will listen to the looney on the street corner :P

or the tard in the corner (me) who wont say anything until he sees another tard :D

[kachie_takahashi]

I read the e-mail just a moment ago, didnt finish it, was just getting more and more let down. For the love of everything that is Trek they better not do it this way or it ****s everything up.

It aint about the damn money Cryptic make a good MMORPG that wont flop after a month of BETA for ****'s sake

[sylvermane64]

I'm thinking, and IMO, that being a Captain at the start just means that you begin your career as a Captain of the smaller ships, and that rising in 'rank' is being taken too literally.

Rank could mean that as you progress, you gain access/command to the larger ships in the fleet and become the captain of them.

[misterkenro]

Here is my opinion and I know it doesnt matter to most.

When I first heard of STO I hoped the gameplay would have been reminiscent of the original SWG game, before the CU and such that broke it.

A totally immersive Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek world where you are a person, with professions to choose from. Where you can train, planet hop, join the federation, smuggle etc.

Then, similar to the Jump to Lightspeed addon to SWG we get ships to command, fly around in, explore, battle others and NPC's

Multiplayer would be to join a guild and the guilds put together a group of people who will operate a starship, I know no one would want to be a low ranking noob with nothing to do but there could be a captain, and engineer or 2, helmsmen, weapons, science, shields, and somehow through creative programming they become linked when they enter a starship...maybe 10 people per starship and a guild could have many ships...I'm just thowing out ideas.

I personally so not want to play an Eve type Star Trek online game, Star Trek is more than flying around in space, but flying around in space is a BIG part of ST.

STO could have the potential to be HUGE, the biggest badest MMORPG on the market...but alas, it doesnt appear to going that way. Seems when they want to include console gamers things go awry.

A Fan

[sylvermane64]

Here is my opinion and I know it doesnt matter to most.

When I first heard of STO I hoped the gameplay would have been reminiscent of the original SWG game, before the CU and such that broke it.

A totally immersive Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek world where you are a person, with professions to choose from. Where you can train, planet hop, join the federation, smuggle etc.

Then, similar to the Jump to Lightspeed addon to SWG we get ships to command, fly around in, explore, battle others and NPC's

Multiplayer would be to join a guild and the guilds put together a group of people who will operate a starship, I know no one would want to be a low ranking noob with nothing to do but there could be a captain, and engineer or 2, helmsmen, weapons, science, shields, and somehow through creative programming they become linked when they enter a starship...maybe 10 people per starship and a guild could have many ships...I'm just thowing out ideas.

I personally so not want to play an Eve type Star Trek online game, Star Trek is more than flying around in space, but flying around in space is a BIG part of ST.

STO could have the potential to be HUGE, the biggest badest MMORPG on the market...

A Fan


Unlike EVE, which I have played for years, the HUGE difference in STO is the fact that there are planetside missions as well as the space battle missions. This makes a large difference between the two.

I'm just hoping that they don't do the same thing with STO that they do with EVE where it becomes a huge Alliance Gank fest....they will lose people left and right if they do that.

[curtst]

The only problem with the game from what I can see so far is the fact it has Star Trek as the title. That alone will kill the game, no matter what Cryptic does (even though they are on the right track).

[sylvermane64]

The only problem with the game from what I can see so far is the fact it has Star Trek as the title. That alone will kill the game, no matter what Cryptic does (even though they are on the right track).

Oh look, a Trek hater, only smaller.

It never fails that there is always someone that joins a site that doesn't even like the genre that the game is about.

Are you THAT bored that you have to post something negative about a show that you obviously hate?

[curtst]

Oh look, a Trek hater, only smaller.

It never fails that there is always someone that joins a site that doesn't even like the genre that the game is about.

Are you THAT bored that you have to post something negative about a show that you obviously hate?

Oh I love Star Trek, hence the st on my name. But I have never seen a truly successful Star Trek game. They never seem to stay on the shelves long enough compared to other games. Despite how good a Star Trek game is they are never really successful. Star Trek to people is just for nerds and geeks, I don't have a problem with that but it hurts especially the gaming market. Cryptic knows for this to work and be successful, in terms of hopefully 200,000 people (which I doubt it will get or stay that high), they have to appeal to regular MMO players and non-Star Trek fans. They will get a fair share of Star Trek fans. Now some of the hard core folks already said they won't get the game because of this. That's ok though, the hard core folks aren't the majority.

They know having real people crew positions won't work, just read the hopefully dying 100 billion captains thread. You will find several reasons there why. I really do hope things work out for Cryptic and the game is a huge success. I plan to pre-order as soon as it is available despite IMO the high potential for failure.

[Severix]

Attempting to relate to the past shows and episodes too much. Such as running into Capt. Kirk somehow (holo deck, time travel mission etc.) Seeing the Enterprise every other zone as well as the other characters and ships from the other shows and movies. This is STO... not some constant history lesson or relating to the past too much. It's time to move forward, with new captains, new ships... new everything. That's my two cents worth... I'm sure there will be folks here that will seriously scoff at this idea... oh well.

[Varrangian]

Wait so you're not complaining because that won't work, but you're doing a "show of hands" of people who are unhappy with a tid-bit of information.

So we all start in control of a Star fleet or Klingon ship, all this means is I'm not swabbing the deck on your ship. As was said in another thread by NeedsMoreShatner.

Star Trek was created to be accessible to a wide audience. And ironically it's fanbase has turned up its nose at that idea and now craves exclusion, because if everyone can be a captain, how are you supposed to feel superior to anyone else playing the game?

[Gandulf]

Starting as the captain of a ship and you are the only crew could be what is going to take place. This also could be a Star Fleet Acadamy holo simulation to begin trainig for the real Trek World when you graduate from the Acadamy. I think we all need to wait for a little more info from the Dev's. Let's give them a chance to explain thier meaning of our little teaser of information as it were.

[sylvermane64]

Starting as the captain of a ship and you are the only crew could be what is going to take place. This also could be a Star Fleet Acadamy holo simulation to begin trainig for the real Trek World when you graduate from the Acadamy. I think we all need to wait for a little more info from the Dev's. Let's give them a chance to explain thier meaning of our little teaser of information as it were.

Upgrades could also be considered a higher ranked Engineer, Science Officer (see Vulcan), Medical Officer, etc... People think in such a linear mind, and they are use to upgrades being an item or equipment.

It could be a conbination of both. Say, you need a higher ranked NPC Engineer that you can recruit at a certain lvl, and you have to have that ranked NPC Engineer to use a higher quality Warp Drive.

On Away Missions, you may be able to assign a certain amount of your NPC crew members to accompany you planetside to perform a mission. The higher your lvl, the more NPC 'pets' you can take. Some missions may require you to have a Science Officer, so you would have to make sure that you have the best Science Officer in your crew, etc, etc...

But yes, we need to wait til we have more info.

[Wallabees]

I just want to brush lips with green skinned girls

EDIT: scratch that, I can do that down my local anyway

[ChiefBrex]

Cryptic have made their decision in how the game will start, which really gives an idea of it's "future". The quote to support this (lifted of another thread here) is "Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."

Now complaining won't get us anywhere really as Cryptic are the devs and typical of most companies they are looking at the $$$$ and not what the fans want. So I'm just after a show of "hands" as it were, of others here who would have preferred a more enriched, simulated type RPG where for e.g. you start off at Starfleet Academy (or the Klingon equivalent) as a Cadet and work through the ranks to achieve your own ship and captaincy later in the game, and even have the opportunity to not captain but be a specialist in your chosen career e.g. Chief Engineer.

Oooooo, me me me! *waves hand in the air* This is what I want!

Seriously though, I'd like this type of MMO more than yet another "you command a ship" type of game.

[xexre]

Interesting ideas floating around. In an ideal world, they would work, but they won't.

First of all, putting ten people together to operate one ship would be pretty entertaining for a while, I'm sure. But here are two scenarios I see playing out:

CapnCrunch: LOL, TO THE DELTA QUADRANT WARP 10
HelmRPer: Uh, we can't go Warp 10, and we can't get to the Delta Quadrant on Warp
CapnCrunch: WTF
2Vok: I wanna shoot something, let's go shoot something
HelmRPer: (Ugh...)
CapnCrunch: TIME 2 PVP, LETS KILL CLING ONS
ScienceGuy: omfg, beam me on
Engineer: SPY'S SAPPIN' MAH TRANSPORTERS
CapnCrunch: lol

Scenario 2:

Captain: Helm, set a course to the Neutral Zone.
Helm: .........
Captain: Helm, I gave you an order.
Science: Captain, we have a Borg Cube dropping out of Transwarp!
Captain: Red alert! Shields at full! Power weapons! Helm, evasive maneuvers!
Helm: .........
Captain: HELM!
Engineering: ((Sorry guys, Jimmy's computer just crashed :( ))
Everyone: ((Aww shh--))
*** USS Endeavor has been destroyed ***

And then, let's say that you are the Science Officer on board a ship. Your entire gaming session would be comprised of scanning, scanning, scanning. That's all you're going to do. Scan things. Scan that planet. Scan that moon. Scan that nebula. Scan that dust cloud. You're going to scan the exact same things as the fifteen thousand Science Officers before you and you're going to wonder to yourself "How much information does Starfleet need on that dust cloud?"

I think it would be fun to have an Enterprise / Voyager / Deep Space 9 type atmosphere, but try to understand, there are certain social and engineering limitations in place that are going to prevent you from getting the "complete" Star Trek experience.

EDIT: Forgot a few pieces, continuing.

A proper Star Trek simulator like some people are suggesting / requesting would be very difficult to put together in an MMO environment. You could do it one of two ways, but these would probably put more people off than anything.

You are an Engineer. Your "quest" is to oversee power regulation on board a ship while it makes its rounds in Sector 0,0,3. You play some mini games, you watch some meters, basically you "heal" the power for, let's say, 15 minutes. You complete this "quest", you gain some XP, you perform your next "quest" and keep this up until you "level up" or move on to your next "questing hub" (i.e. ship).

You can do this as a group that fulfills multiple roles. You're an Engineer, you have a friend that's a Science Officer who has to scan ridiculous numbers of things. You pick up a random person who does something else. You have three people that need to complete their "quests" and you happen to end up on the same ship. Perhaps you could do this with 10 people. 20 people, all working on "non-critical" type quests. Essentially, things that could not jeopardize the health and safety of the ship because let's face it, do you REALLY want to trust your existence to CapnCrunch?

Ultimately, it is what it is and Cryptic will do what they want. I see them providing a VERY fleshed out crew, including things such as morale, how well certain officers get along, people transferring on and off your ship constantly, things of that nature. You'll get to know your First Officer NPC very well. Backgrounds for people, commendations, achievements, etc. All artificial, but always growing. The engineer you had back on that little dinghy science ship may some day transfer to six different ships, only to come back to your Intrepid class ship and be your First Officer. He might have gone through six other players and learned some skills along the way.

Just a few thoughts. I'm done here.

[Grig]

Interesting ideas floating around. In an ideal world, they would work, but they won't.

First of all, putting ten people together to operate one ship would be pretty entertaining for a while, I'm sure. But here are two scenarios I see playing out:

CapnCrunch: LOL, TO THE DELTA QUADRANT WARP 10
HelmRPer: Uh, we can't go Warp 10, and we can't get to the Delta Quadrant on Warp
CapnCrunch: WTF
2Vok: I wanna shoot something, let's go shoot something
HelmRPer: (Ugh...)
CapnCrunch: TIME 2 PVP, LETS KILL CLING ONS
ScienceGuy: omfg, beam me on
Engineer: SPY'S SAPPIN' MAH TRANSPORTERS
CapnCrunch: lol

Scenario 2:

Captain: Helm, set a course to the Neutral Zone.
Helm: .........
Captain: Helm, I gave you an order.
Science: Captain, we have a Borg Cube dropping out of Transwarp!
Captain: Red alert! Shields at full! Power weapons! Helm, evasive maneuvers!
Helm: .........
Captain: HELM!
Engineering: ((Sorry guys, Jimmy's computer just crashed :( ))
Everyone: ((Aww shh--))
*** USS Endeavor has been destroyed ***

Complex or not its what alot want but thanks mate hehe now im going to name my Npc crew funny names so i can can LMFAO when they die.. takin from idea from another thread Green girls and Sexy female valcuns and call the ship USS Hooters

[Cyjack]

Now complaining won't get us anywhere really as Cryptic are the devs and typical of most companies they are looking at the $$$$ and not what the fans want.


I'm a fan, and this game is exactly what I want. Speak for yourself.

Your distinction of "proper" mmmos is ridiculous.


Most "proper" MMOs "suck". And if you mean by Proper MMO, a game that has cookie cutter classes, this game will have the same thing, and probably even more ways to differentiate your character and in-game role than most.

[marshalleck]

Interesting ideas floating around. In an ideal world, they would work, but they won't.

First of all, putting ten people together to operate one ship would be pretty entertaining for a while, I'm sure. But here are two scenarios I see playing out:

CapnCrunch: LOL, TO THE DELTA QUADRANT WARP 10
HelmRPer: Uh, we can't go Warp 10, and we can't get to the Delta Quadrant on Warp
CapnCrunch: WTF
2Vok: I wanna shoot something, let's go shoot something
HelmRPer: (Ugh...)
CapnCrunch: TIME 2 PVP, LETS KILL CLING ONS
ScienceGuy: omfg, beam me on
Engineer: SPY'S SAPPIN' MAH TRANSPORTERS
CapnCrunch: lol

Scenario 2:

Captain: Helm, set a course to the Neutral Zone.
Helm: .........
Captain: Helm, I gave you an order.
Science: Captain, we have a Borg Cube dropping out of Transwarp!
Captain: Red alert! Shields at full! Power weapons! Helm, evasive maneuvers!
Helm: .........
Captain: HELM!
Engineering: ((Sorry guys, Jimmy's computer just crashed :( ))
Everyone: ((Aww shh--))
*** USS Endeavor has been destroyed ***

And then, let's say that you are the Science Officer on board a ship. Your entire gaming session would be comprised of scanning, scanning, scanning. That's all you're going to do. Scan things. Scan that planet. Scan that moon. Scan that nebula. Scan that dust cloud. You're going to scan the exact same things as the fifteen thousand Science Officers before you and you're going to wonder to yourself "How much information does Starfleet need on that dust cloud?"

I think it would be fun to have an Enterprise / Voyager / Deep Space 9 type atmosphere, but try to understand, there are certain social and engineering limitations in place that are going to prevent you from getting the "complete" Star Trek experience.

EDIT: Forgot a few pieces, continuing.

A proper Star Trek simulator like some people are suggesting / requesting would be very difficult to put together in an MMO environment. You could do it one of two ways, but these would probably put more people off than anything.

You are an Engineer. Your "quest" is to oversee power regulation on board a ship while it makes its rounds in Sector 0,0,3. You play some mini games, you watch some meters, basically you "heal" the power for, let's say, 15 minutes. You complete this "quest", you gain some XP, you perform your next "quest" and keep this up until you "level up" or move on to your next "questing hub" (i.e. ship).

You can do this as a group that fulfills multiple roles. You're an Engineer, you have a friend that's a Science Officer who has to scan ridiculous numbers of things. You pick up a random person who does something else. You have three people that need to complete their "quests" and you happen to end up on the same ship. Perhaps you could do this with 10 people. 20 people, all working on "non-critical" type quests. Essentially, things that could not jeopardize the health and safety of the ship because let's face it, do you REALLY want to trust your existence to CapnCrunch?

Ultimately, it is what it is and Cryptic will do what they want. I see them providing a VERY fleshed out crew, including things such as morale, how well certain officers get along, people transferring on and off your ship constantly, things of that nature. You'll get to know your First Officer NPC very well. Backgrounds for people, commendations, achievements, etc. All artificial, but always growing. The engineer you had back on that little dinghy science ship may some day transfer to six different ships, only to come back to your Intrepid class ship and be your First Officer. He might have gone through six other players and learned some skills along the way.

Just a few thoughts. I'm done here.

Sounds like an offline game.

[datherton]

That kind of a start to the game for me doesn't sound entirely appealing. Of course, the game is not complete and so I can't say for sure how it will play out, as experience tells me that in the world of MMOG development what may initially sound like a bad idea may actually be executed very well in reality. I don't entirely like the emphasis upon captaining a starship, because that implies a built-in need to play cooperatively, whereas I prefer to build a character up through soloing. However, what I wonder about is if captaining a vessel will allow you to hire NPCs who will manage the ship to almost the same level as a real human player working cooperatively with you, in which case I might not mind it so much. On the other hand, if every character in the game is a captain of a ship (regardless of its size), that opens up the question as to whether or not other players in the game will be able to even join your crew in the first place as anything less than a captain. My guess is the game is much more complex than Jack Emmert's initial description, or at least I would certainly hope it is!

[SebastienK]

Seriously, some of the game play ideas floating around are just outright inane.

Do you know what you do in Starfleet Academy?

It's the equivalent to college except much broader. So if you really really really just have to simulate taking those astrophysics exams at the Academy then there is what you do.

Buy The Sims 2....

Buy the university expansion....

Make a Star Trek mod...

Have fun pretending to go to class...

I'm sure he meant that the games starts when you graduate at the academy :p

[zaxxon23]

I have no interest in being "chief engineer" or a medical officer. I do have interest in piloting my own ship, and developing skills that allow me to fly larger and more complex ships as time goes on. However, I'm certainly open minded to armadas of player ships, and I'd even be willing to give a chance at players banding together to run one ship (although I think this would not be a valid playstyle for the vast majority of customers).

Starting out at Starfleet academy sounds cool in concept, but as far as gameplay it would be not much more then a series of minigames that people would have to "grind" through in order to get a ship of their own. Make no mistake about it, most people don't want to play as a port side gunner or as a medical officer, not because being a medic isn't any fun (to a lot of people the healer class is indeed fun), but because the gameplay would be very restricted in the environment of a ship. For example, if I was a medical officer I would sit there until casualties came in and then do my healing thing. But what if no casualties came in? What if we were exploring a cluster and not fighting? There's no doubt that a medical officer is important in very specific situations, but those situations are so few and far between that it simply wouldn't be fun to play as a class.

In the end, it is obvious that a player crew is just a bad gameplay concept.

[mikester101]

i want a proper MMORPG /sign

[Capt._D]

Sunday isn’t going to be Revelations and it’s not going to be the antithesis of all the accumulated works this game has had done to it.

The game play footage isn’t going to answer all our questions. Only time is going to do that and we all need to calm down. If you don’t like this game as it stands now, leave for a month or two maybe even three and come back and see what information is here than. If not than stay, just patiently wait as I am doing for more info. No one event is going to answer all the questions.

And to the thread starter this question is called a leading question “Who Wants a "Proper" MMORPG?” Well who is going to say no to that?

Our expectations were a little higher than practical and now we are being told so. Cluttering up the forum with 4 different topics about how this game is going to fail or isn’t “Trek” enough is just pointless.

[Thorgar]

Sunday isn’t going to be Revelations and it’s not going to be the antithesis of all the accumulated works this game has had done to it.

The game play footage isn’t going to answer all our questions. Only time is going to do that and we all need to calm down. If you don’t like this game as it stands now, leave for a month or two maybe even three and come back and see what information is here than. If not than stay, just patiently wait as I am doing for more info. No one event is going to answer all the questions.

And to the thread starter this question is called a leading question “Who Wants a "Proper" MMORPG?” Well who is going to say no to that?

Our expectations were a little higher than practical and now we are being told so. Cluttering up the forum with 4 different topics about how this game is going to fail or isn’t “Trek” enough is just pointless.

/applause!!

[ChiefBrex]

Interesting ideas floating around. In an ideal world, they would work, but they won't.

First of all, putting ten people together to operate one ship would be pretty entertaining for a while, I'm sure. But here are two scenarios I see playing out:

CapnCrunch: LOL, TO THE DELTA QUADRANT WARP 10
HelmRPer: Uh, we can't go Warp 10, and we can't get to the Delta Quadrant on Warp
CapnCrunch: WTF
2Vok: I wanna shoot something, let's go shoot something
HelmRPer: (Ugh...)
CapnCrunch: TIME 2 PVP, LETS KILL CLING ONS
ScienceGuy: omfg, beam me on
Engineer: SPY'S SAPPIN' MAH TRANSPORTERS
CapnCrunch: lol

Scenario 2:

Captain: Helm, set a course to the Neutral Zone.
Helm: .........
Captain: Helm, I gave you an order.
Science: Captain, we have a Borg Cube dropping out of Transwarp!
Captain: Red alert! Shields at full! Power weapons! Helm, evasive maneuvers!
Helm: .........
Captain: HELM!
Engineering: ((Sorry guys, Jimmy's computer just crashed :( ))
Everyone: ((Aww shh--))
*** USS Endeavor has been destroyed ***

And then, let's say that you are the Science Officer on board a ship. Your entire gaming session would be comprised of scanning, scanning, scanning. That's all you're going to do. Scan things. Scan that planet. Scan that moon. Scan that nebula. Scan that dust cloud. You're going to scan the exact same things as the fifteen thousand Science Officers before you and you're going to wonder to yourself "How much information does Starfleet need on that dust cloud?"

I think it would be fun to have an Enterprise / Voyager / Deep Space 9 type atmosphere, but try to understand, there are certain social and engineering limitations in place that are going to prevent you from getting the "complete" Star Trek experience.

EDIT: Forgot a few pieces, continuing.

A proper Star Trek simulator like some people are suggesting / requesting would be very difficult to put together in an MMO environment. You could do it one of two ways, but these would probably put more people off than anything.

You are an Engineer. Your "quest" is to oversee power regulation on board a ship while it makes its rounds in Sector 0,0,3. You play some mini games, you watch some meters, basically you "heal" the power for, let's say, 15 minutes. You complete this "quest", you gain some XP, you perform your next "quest" and keep this up until you "level up" or move on to your next "questing hub" (i.e. ship).

You can do this as a group that fulfills multiple roles. You're an Engineer, you have a friend that's a Science Officer who has to scan ridiculous numbers of things. You pick up a random person who does something else. You have three people that need to complete their "quests" and you happen to end up on the same ship. Perhaps you could do this with 10 people. 20 people, all working on "non-critical" type quests. Essentially, things that could not jeopardize the health and safety of the ship because let's face it, do you REALLY want to trust your existence to CapnCrunch?

Ultimately, it is what it is and Cryptic will do what they want. I see them providing a VERY fleshed out crew, including things such as morale, how well certain officers get along, people transferring on and off your ship constantly, things of that nature. You'll get to know your First Officer NPC very well. Backgrounds for people, commendations, achievements, etc. All artificial, but always growing. The engineer you had back on that little dinghy science ship may some day transfer to six different ships, only to come back to your Intrepid class ship and be your First Officer. He might have gone through six other players and learned some skills along the way.

Just a few thoughts. I'm done here.

You know, there are ways to deal with these situations. For example, if a player's computer crashes, the CO of the ship would more than likely have the option to "boot" them and replace them with an NPC. Situation resolved.

As for "trusting my existence to CapnCrunch," depending on how Cryptic deals with it, it may not be possible for your character to "die" in this universe, let alone your ship be destroyed. It might be set up so that, your ship could take damage to a point where it is considered "sufficiently disabled" and the crew and ship are "reset". Granted, this isn't very Trek or realistic, but at least that way, your character's existence is saved.

Furthermore, people are already beginning to form crews and fleets before the game footage has been shown. By the time the game is launched, most crews will have been rping in *some* format to build camaraderie, and therefore, trust is not an issue anymore for them. I highly doubt that STO will be like WOW or SWG, where you log on, and join some random group for action and adventure. If STO is to focus on any aspect of Star Trek, it's that you sign up with one crew, and you continually serve on that one crew each time you log on, until you ask to be "transferred" to another ship, or you're promoted to where you can get your own ship, or you take a position on a base, or something.

And as for your description of what a Science Officer will do, you clearly aren't a Trek fan. If you were, you'd know that there are many different scientific fields, ranging from Archeology to Xenobiology. In PE's original concept art, there was an archeology lab on one of the decks. And I highly doubt it was there just for looks. So, science officers would *not* be limited "scanning this, that, and the other" as you describe. And I hope Cryptic follows something similar.

Overall though, you're making assumptions based on about 200 words describing the game. Why can't you just wait til the game footage comes out. Why not follow the example of the rest of us, and actually try to talk to Cryptic's developers, and help them understand what it is we want in our game. Because, let's face it, in the end, STO is *our* game. Without us, there is no multiplayer.

[xexre]

You know, there are ways to deal with these situations. For example, if a player's computer crashes, the CO of the ship would more than likely have the option to "boot" them and replace them with an NPC. Situation resolved.

As for "trusting my existence to CapnCrunch," depending on how Cryptic deals with it, it may not be possible for your character to "die" in this universe, let alone your ship be destroyed. It might be set up so that, your ship could take damage to a point where it is considered "sufficiently disabled" and the crew and ship are "reset". Granted, this isn't very Trek or realistic, but at least that way, your character's existence is saved.

Furthermore, people are already beginning to form crews and fleets before the game footage has been shown. By the time the game is launched, most crews will have been rping in *some* format to build camaraderie, and therefore, trust is not an issue anymore for them. I highly doubt that STO will be like WOW or SWG, where you log on, and join some random group for action and adventure. If STO is to focus on any aspect of Star Trek, it's that you sign up with one crew, and you continually serve on that one crew each time you log on, until you ask to be "transferred" to another ship, or you're promoted to where you can get your own ship, or you take a position on a base, or something.

And as for your description of what a Science Officer will do, you clearly aren't a Trek fan. If you were, you'd know that there are many different scientific fields, ranging from Archeology to Xenobiology. In PE's original concept art, there was an archeology lab on one of the decks. And I highly doubt it was there just for looks. So, science officers would *not* be limited "scanning this, that, and the other" as you describe. And I hope Cryptic follows something similar.

Overall though, you're making assumptions based on about 200 words describing the game. Why can't you just wait til the game footage comes out. Why not follow the example of the rest of us, and actually try to talk to Cryptic's developers, and help them understand what it is we want in our game. Because, let's face it, in the end, STO is *our* game. Without us, there is no multiplayer.

I'm going to start with the last thing you said first. I'm trying to tell people why they shouldn't set their expectations of having this "perfect Star Trek world" so high. It's an MMO. It's a video game. People want to log on and have fun, and Cryptic wants to cater to the largest group of Star Trek fans possible to accomplish this. You can't make everybody happy. Me? I'm content to sit here and see what Cryptic comes up with. I have set reasonable expectations for this game, and they don't involve putting together a 25 man crew from across the world.

And no, I'm not a "hardcore" Trek fan. I don't go to conventions, get dressed up or involve myself in any of the local fleets. I am, however, a Star Trek fan. I enjoy the shows and the movies. That's about as far as I go with it. So Xenobiology, Archeology, etc? Sure, okay. But think of it this way: now you're scanning bones instead of scanning that dust cloud. At the end of the day, you've done nothing but scan, and most people don't want to do that.

Replacing PCs with NPCs. Sounds great. Didn't say I wasn't open to the suggestion, and now that lets me fly my ship by myself with an NPC crew. Maybe I didn't follow this game from inception. I happened upon it at Best Buy, saw it, bought it (a year after release, I might add) and now here I am fresh in this neat Star Trek vidya game. Don't force me to beg people to join their ship. Don't force me to scan the same dust cloud thirty times to gain a level so I can go scan a pulsar instead, so I can level up fifteen more times, before I can fly a ship.

Don't force anybody into a role of mediocrity because that's what you want for yourself. If you want to scan, or engineer, or replicate, go right ahead. I wanna captain this ship, and I don't want to grind dust cloud scans to get there.

[Arcturus]

The Star Trek world will be what you make of it. I will follow the Prime Directive, and be friendly to everyone in my own little bright shining future, I'll meet people who hate it, I'll meet people who love it. Watch I'll only be level two but games are only for a couple hours of escapism a day anyway.:)

[Katana]

there not polished yet that is Alpha screen shots. Age of Conan's look just as bad


good to know cus i was gettin scared :O

[Rengaw]

Cryptic have made their decision in how the game will start, which really gives an idea of it's "future".

I would be happy to start at Starfleet Academy or with my own ship or even as a drunk in 10 forward, I just want the game to start ASAP so what ever they pick is fine with me as long as they stick to it being Star Trek and not another monatary Star Wars.

I want to be a part of what will never be possible in my life time for real, and boldy go where ever they frigging let me without crashing my Starship or my computer ASAP.

[mulder999]

I dont want a proper MMO, i want a fun MMO

/thread

[-Brett-]

If a "proper" MMORPG is one where I'm forced to be subordinate to an autistic twelve year old just because he plays 80 hours a week and I don't, then no. The less "proper" the better.

[paulo.913]

Personally I somewhat like what there doing. I like being Captain with from what Ive read the option to a Captain with a specific medical background type thing. Or being a engineer as a captain, so ive read.

Can I play something other than a Captain like a Doctor or an Engineer?
Everyone is a Captain, (remember, if you command a ship, you are automatically a Captain), and you will command a crew, but that does not limit your role. Your character will still be able to choose from a variety of career paths, such as Engineer, Tactical Officer, Doctor, Science Officer, etc. Your career path is your root, and will affect your skills, and how you command your crew. Consider Jean-Luc Picard, Beverly Crusher, Worf and Kathryn Janeway. Picard was an archeologist and diplomat, Crusher was a doctor, Worf a security/tactical officer, and Janeway was a scientist. Each eventually chose a career in command and became ship captains. This does not mean the game will limit your ship choices based on your profession – far from it. The examples are simply an example of how the game design was inspired.

I also like having an NPC that from what Ive heard is Customizable. Though I wouldnt mind the option for others to have a totally player crew. Gives more diversity to what people want. Mostly everyone is happy. I wouldn't mind an academy, but as an option, let some of just jump in there and go, some of us may pay for that option later but it's still our choice. Customization is awesome and allows for diversity, which is something I prefer.

Either way ill still sign up for this game, but being a Captain with an entirely NPC crew will allow me to work and not have to worry if my crew needs me and is being blown up because I am not there. But this is just me

[mirkrim]

NPC crew should only become available once you reach a certain level, and are able to get a certain class of ship. It seems ridiculous if you start out immediately with a loyal group of officers.

[Kinjiru]

NPC crew should only become available once you reach a certain level, and are able to get a certain class of ship. It seems ridiculous if you start out immediately with a loyal group of officers.

And when Kirk was assigned to the Enterprise, you don't think there was a crew onboard?

[paulo.913]

NPC crew should only become available once you reach a certain level, and are able to get a certain class of ship. It seems ridiculous if you start out immediately with a loyal group of officers.

What about reversing that, make it so you have to "level up" in some form, what ever that is for this game, and you can transfer and leave your ship to join a larger manned crew.

Or as I said before make it an option, allow ppl to choose to go out on there own or join crews right off the bat. Maybe theres a group of 6 friends out there that plan to get it on release and what to pilot one ship together.

Options can be our friends if we let them, i prefer options over no choice at all.

[Spacemanspiff]

I like the way they are making it. NPC crew, start with a ship, etc. Player crews would suck. It would be like looking for a group in WoW where it sometimes takes an hour to get a group together. Also going through the academy just sounds boring . .

[paulo.913]

I like the way they are making it. NPC crew, start with a ship, etc. Player crews would suck. It would be like looking for a group in WoW where it sometimes takes an hour to get a group together. Also going through the academy just sounds boring . .

I agree 100%, I QUIT WoW, specifically because the friend who I was supposed to level up with took a day and went and finished all the quests, so now Im stuck with no help, so I quit. My own ship, my own crew with me commanding it, id be happy with that.

If one is given the option for either NPC or player controlled i think we'd all be happy

[mirkrim]

And when Kirk was assigned to the Enterprise, you don't think there was a crew onboard?

Enterprise was the Federation's flagship, and Kirk was an actual Captain. But for players starting out at a low rank with a small ship, it just wouldn't make sense. Did you ever see Nog running around in a Defiant with a loyal crew of officers?

A hand-picked crew should be earned, just like ships have to be earned.

[k.mpok]

I would like to see each player start off as a generic class (like how EQ2 was originally going to be). Thru the Acadamy (or alien equivalent)/tutorial you pick your class and thus move along in rank to one day (not at the beginning) being presented with the option of being a Captain (in command of a ship) if you so wished.

So I guess I am more in support of a RP Sim approach I guess.

[Kinjiru]

Enterprise was the Federation's flagship, and Kirk was an actual Captain. But for players starting out at a low rank with a small ship, it just wouldn't make sense. Did you ever see Nog running around in a Defiant with a loyal crew of officers?

A hand-picked crew should be earned, just like ships have to be earned.

And when he got his first command, he had a crew.

From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk

Having risen rapidly through the ranks after leaving the Academy, Kirk went on to receive his first command (the equivalent of a destroyer-class spaceship) while still quite young.[7] This early phase of his career was not explored in either the television series or films, though it was explored in the 1986 novel Enterprise: The First Adventure, by Vonda N. McIntyre.[8]

Kirk then became the youngest captain in Starfleet to that date at age 31, when he received command of the USS Enterprise, following the captaincies of Robert April and Christopher Pike.

If he was given command of a destroyer class ship, you don't think *it* had a crew?

[PraetorianHistorian]

I wouldn't mind starting off with just a shuttle craft and 2 loyal cadets as a crew.

[mirkrim]

And when he got his first command, he had a crew.

If he was given command of a destroyer class ship, you don't think *it* had a crew?

Yeah, but he had a career at least through the rank of Lieutenant before he got his own ship and crew. Check the James T. Kirk article on Memory Alpha. (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/James_T_Kirk#Junior_Officer)

Unless that means we're all going to start out at the rank of Lieutenant Commander, with only 2 promotions between n00b and endgame...

[Cryptic_Fan_101]

When I first heard of STO I hoped the gameplay would have been reminiscent of the original SWG game, before the CU and such that broke it.

A totally immersive Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek world where you are a person, with professions to choose from. Where you can train, planet hop, join the federation, smuggle etc.

Smuggle? Which version of pre-CU SWG were you playing?

BTW, you left out: standing in line for Doc buffs, "solo" grouping, tossing grenades at lairs, waiting for shuttles, farming Krayt Dragons with multiple AT-STs, kung-fu fighting at Ft. Teras Kasi, afk dancing, cross-server lot trading, credit duping, afk tumbling, holo-grinding, and dueling at Theed with a power hammer, pink hawt pants, and Stormtrooper helmet. You also left out that the good 'ole pre-CU SWG was bleeding an average of ten thousand subscribers per month.

No offense, but I think you folks pining away for a "proper" MMO neither have realistic or reasonable expectations. It's a video game, not a holodeck.

[Ereiid]

No offense, but I think you folks pining away for a "proper" MMO neither have realistic or reasonable expectations. It's a video game, not a holodeck.

I'm reminded from the old STONet boards that Perpetual's Daron Stinnett had famously made the claim: "It's a game, not a simulation."

It's right up there with Statesman's 'Soon' as one of the most eminently quotable Dev one-liners ever.

You can imagine that sorts of hackles that raised with a certain subset of the potential playerbase. The unfortunate reality about a property like Trek is that there are plenty potential players who really want to spend their time and hard-earned money petting Spot, playing the Vulcan lyre in Ten-Forward.

There's a silly suggestion a day, by my estimate, in that regard.

And hey, not being much of a roleplayer myself, I'm all for people doing what they will within gamespace. But when coding priorities, especially when it comes to core mechanics -- then I'm definitely siding with the game, and not the simulation.