Why are you surprised...

[admriker444]

Some posters here are actually suprised by Cryptic's latest info on the game. In case you missed it...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikj6V-CYYWISldz8cmkiJ9avC11QD92E92UG0

"Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."


Did you all actually believe we'd get a complex interactive MMO virtual galaxy simulator ?

All one needs to do is look at Cryptics other work...City of Heroes. That game is about as complex as a paper towel.

Ive kissed this game goodbye already. It wont allow me to own a bar and just be an explorer. Clearly its going to be a simplistic combat shooter game focused on boring missions. Rank, level, its all the same thing....it means kill x number of rats or ferengi to gain a lvl....LAME

OH very clever, instead of allowing players to work together on a ship...you know because this is an MMO after all....instead we get to hire npc crewmates like another lame so-called MMO Guildwars.

Its clear now why this game is destined for consoles...simplistic linear design and pew pew combat only a gamepad could love.

Im not surprised but I was hoping I would be proven wrong.

This game will epic fail because its not catering to its core audience.

[Crazyfist]

You are right. This game will probably be a epic non trekkish fail.

But i will probably still play it, even how bad its looking. Maybe itll get better? Probably not. But anyway

[Brex2]

Yeah me too, but theres always RPG-X... that new everytime, but again its in a totaly different leauge, maybe in future realses, you will be able to fly a shuttle or somthing but that might be a long way off

[Rath]

You are right. This game will probably be a epic non trekkish fail.

But i will probably still play it, even how bad its looking. Maybe itll get better? Probably not. But anyway

Yep, with the engine basically being a copy of Earth & Beyond, i can see most of the fan base will not go near it, as its not what star trek is about... shame really.

Rath :cool:

[shapeless79]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

[Brex2]

Does anyone know if it will come out in Britain at that time? Or will we have to wait until Christmas with the new movie?

[Rath]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

dont get me wrong, i expect that what they make will be brilliant... for what it is. But the concerning thing is that they didnt or rather it doesnt seem like, they didnt ask fans before starting the dev on the game, and as to what approach they should take... maybe im wrong, and yes, you are correct, sunday will disproove or proove all of the information.

I will wait before writing them off compleltley, but im not holding my breath :p

Rath :cool:

[eventhorizen]

Some posters here are actually suprised by Cryptic's latest info on the game. In case you missed it...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikj6V-CYYWISldz8cmkiJ9avC11QD92E92UG0

"Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."


Did you all actually believe we'd get a complex interactive MMO virtual galaxy simulator ?

All one needs to do is look at Cryptics other work...City of Heroes. That game is about as complex as a paper towel.

Ive kissed this game goodbye already. It wont allow me to own a bar and just be an explorer. Clearly its going to be a simplistic combat shooter game focused on boring missions. Rank, level, its all the same thing....it means kill x number of rats or ferengi to gain a lvl....LAME

OH very clever, instead of allowing players to work together on a ship...you know because this is an MMO after all....instead we get to hire npc crewmates like another lame so-called MMO Guildwars.

Its clear now why this game is destined for consoles...simplistic linear design and pew pew combat only a gamepad could love.

Im not surprised but I was hoping I would be proven wrong.

This game will epic fail because its not catering to its core audience.

As if anyone here doesn't already know.

[djmillen]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

/agree

Wait and find out more

[Arokh72]

"...as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship." This is what's turned me off, I really wanted a full featured MMO where we start as cadets and work our way up to Captain and beyond not this "jump in play quick" Gen Z stuff.

[Grig]

im waiting for sunday as well, but not holding my breath until im dead. To what has been said so far its a cookiee cut game of all ST rpg games you play solo on your pc with the mission after mission to achive the highest rank and better ships. with the only one good option is making or choosing a race that is already in Star trek.

[IcarusTyler]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

He did say LASERS after all, so I suggest we don't dwell on this piece of text-info so much.

[Myopic_Aardvark]

But the concerning thing is that they didnt or rather it doesnt seem like, they didnt ask fans before starting the dev on the game, and as to what approach they should take:

Good. That way the game might actually have some kind of structure, as opposed to a billion and one I WANT THIS type of ideas.

I can't imagine a worse focus group for any product than a group of MMO-playing Trekkies/ers. One or two, sure, but when (as we've seen here) they get into a large group, it's not pretty.

[Arokh72]

Good. That way the game might actually have some kind of structure, as opposed to a billion and one I WANT THIS type of ideas.

I can't imagine a worse focus group for any product than a group of MMO-playing Trekkies/ers. One or two, sure, but when (as we've seen here) they get into a large group, it's not pretty.

Yet they seem to have started to make something that us large amount of Trekkers wanted the least.

[shapeless79]

"...as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship." This is what's turned me off, I really wanted a full featured MMO where we start as cadets and work our way up to Captain and beyond not this "jump in play quick" Gen Z stuff.

Right, for what I hope will be the last time someone has to explain this "Captain" is not only a rank, but also a "position" that can be held by anyone of any rank, yes even Ensigns, tho incredibly rare. I would like to believe that they are talking about the "position" and NOT the "rank" here...

Is that clear enough for everyone? ;)

[Myopic_Aardvark]

Yet they seem to have started to make something that us large amount of Trekkers wanted the least.

No offence, but can you show me the poll you gathered from "this majority"? Forums make up a tiny percentage of a gameplaying populace. Especially forums that exist where there is no game as yet.

We know NOTHING about the game, other than how we interpret a few (in my opinion badly worded) phrases.

[Arokh72]

No offence, but can you show me the poll you gathered from "this majority"? Forums make up a tiny percentage of a gameplaying populace. Especially forums that exist where there is no game as yet.

We know NOTHING about the game, other than how we interpret a few (in my opinion badly worded) phrases.

Research has been done over various threads even from the PE days...go through the threads as I have done (yes too much time on my hands) and you will see this. But if you notice you may see I've done a thread dedicated to the Trekkers who follow this belief.

As to the captain thing, even as a position you wouldn't be able to captain any craft (you pilot shuttle craft not captain otherwise it'd be like saying you captain a small runabout aluminium boat) until you've served under a few of the various ranks.

[Myopic_Aardvark]

Research has been done over various threads even from the PE days...go through the threads as I have done (yes too much time on my hands) and you will see this. But if you notice you may see I've done a thread dedicated to the Trekkers who follow this belief.


Again, a forum on the intarwebs is no proof of any statistics whatsoever, merely a colleciton of beliefs from the most ardent of advocates.

The majority are the ones who see something, pick it up and go, "I'll try that" without any forethought or inside knowledge of the Rules Of Acquisition.

[shapeless79]

As to the captain thing, even as a position you wouldn't be able to captain any craft (you pilot shuttle craft not captain otherwise it'd be like saying you captain a small runabout aluminum boat) until you've served under a few of the various ranks.

Shuttle craft wouldn't count, would probably start at Runabout 'level' as someone else stated somewhere round here as they need a few people to crew at least iirc...

I agree with you about serving and gaining experience that way as well, which would be nice if they implemented this as well, but I doubt it, as a majority of 'players' will just want to get out there and explore/blow stuff up etc etc, which is a shame really...

[Rath]

No offence, but can you show me the poll you gathered from "this majority"? Forums make up a tiny percentage of a gameplaying populace. Especially forums that exist where there is no game as yet.

We know NOTHING about the game, other than how we interpret a few (in my opinion badly worded) phrases.

I dont see how a post from a high profile newspaper explaining words from the mouth of Cryptic about waht the game is about, can be badly worded... granted, we have about 27 hours to find out for sure what this game is about, but looking at the screens, the info from cryptic about the game and what you do in it, the evidence is mounting up against it being what, is true, the majority want.

Rath :cool:

[Myopic_Aardvark]

That's okay. We both have different beliefs that we're jumping to about this game. I'll wait and see what Cryptic actually say, rather than a press release that talks about lasers and missiles before I rant about how bad it is.

Believe me, I've been through the whole Cryptic depression twice now. WIth City Of Heroes (which, in my opinion, is looking up since Cryptic left it) and with Champions Online, where it's turned from COH2 into Marvel Ultimate Alliance, based on the information they've provided us. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not what I was hoping for.

I haven't been able to draw any opinions on Trek Online yet, since we've had zero information.

[boydyma]

wait and see guys... just wait and see...

come monday (for me) and ill either fire up the whinge generators or ill be a satisfied trekky.

[DrAmyWeaver]

wait and see guys... just wait and see...

come monday (for me) and ill either fire up the whinge generators or ill be a satisfied trekky.

Belay that and reverse the polarity on those whinge generators!

It is going to be a tricky one to balance - and it's probably not going to meet every expectation, since people will want space combat better than EVE and in-depth ground adventures as good as the TOS. For launch (Issue 1: First Contact?) we should expect something reasonably spanky on both sides, but probably not perfection.

[Will_Lucky]

Does anyone know if it will come out in Britain at that time? Or will we have to wait until Christmas with the new movie?

The movie is out next May, and as for this game I expect a 2 year wait personally.

[Dext]

Stop your crying every one we don't know how every thing is going to work they just Post the basic info on what we will see an it is not in detail yet so stop passing judgment on the game with out even know all the facts yet

[Myopic_Aardvark]

Stop your crying every one we don't know how every thing is going to work they just Post the basic info on what we will see an it is not in detail yet so stop passing judgment on the game with out even know all the facts yet

Having no information, but still passing judgement is a common human condition

[Dext]

Having no information, but still passing judgement is a common human condition

that is true but crying kids do it the most lol

[treky215]

We can complain about not getting any information.

We can post our worries that Feature X won't be included.

We can mass together, form petitions, and DEMAND interiors.

But it's totally naive to write off a game entirely when it's only ~ 1 month into public-known development.

[ParkerHayden]

"as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship"

Don't count it down just yet, they might not mean "captain" as in the rank, but as the position. Might just be a runabout, or something.

[Varrangian]

Good lord I've never seen this many people overreact from one tid-bit of information. One tid-bit mind you that had to be obvious since we are talking about a game, and a game needs the flexibility for everyone to feel like the main character/characters.

All we know is you start with a small ship. Get over it, that still leaves a world of potential.

This is worse than those crying for Jedi to be a starting class... at least in their case they knew Jedi wasn't actually going to be a starting class. :rolleyes:

[Azael]

If it does turn out to be absolutely shambolic, I'm sure a small group of wound up americans will beat the developers to death with rocks and replica equipment.

[Grig]

Good lord I've never seen this many people overreact from one tid-bit of information. One tid-bit mind you that had to be obvious since we are talking about a game, and a game needs the flexibility for everyone to feel like the main character/characters.

All we know is you start with a small ship. Get over it, that still leaves a world of potential.

This is worse than those crying for Jedi to be a starting class... at least in their case they knew Jedi wasn't actually going to be a starting class. :rolleyes:

Hehe NGE made it so :p and as for little tid bit of info well its normal in any game .. giving i seen so far forums from pre-cu refugees wanting a complex MMO game that fill there hunger that they lost on SWG.

wait for tomorrow an see but like i said before im not holding my breath

[Richman12]

Because of this BIG fiasco I probably will say that if it does happen then this game will probably have next to none subcribers. I know this from personal experince on SWG after NGE even noobs don't like playing SWG that much.

Myself included though I think more info would be required before I would do a complete petition to CBS to pull the plug on this.

[Deadzone]

The biggest fail for MMOs is that they DONT LISTEN to their player base when they make the game. Most companies will make a basic game hoping they can sell enough copies to make their money back and then some.

If Cyptic started from scratch, then they certainly didnt listen to anyone here as I have seen a very large consensus about certian things just from the last week I have been reading these forums....that I don't see in this game. And being a captain from the very start is one of them.

Cyptic COULD have made a game where you aren't a captain from the beginning as quite a lot of people expressed but you know WHY they did it? Because they thought thats what most people wanted--- from a economical point of view- " people can captain their own ship...so we'll get a lot more peolpe buying the game!" Low and behold, they didnt bother to check what their main player base wanted.

Most of these MMO companies are just too coookie-cutter and that why most of these games fail. They only pay attention to their income books.

I might be proven wrong come tomm but you know what, I seriously doubt it. History speaks for itsself.

[ParkerHayden]

A lot of you are overlooking the fact that he said "captain of a small ship". He might not have meant the rank, but the position. And by small, he probably means shuttles and runabouts, and you rise in rank to get better/bigger ships. This is all way too premature.

[bitgolem]

I am suprised by the same thing I always am, when I read posts like this. How people take vague generalized statements intended for the media and cite it as definitive and all encompassing.

If you're not involved in the development of the game, you don't know what you can or can't do... Can or can't go... Will or won't be able to wear.

Just wait and see what the game IS at release before you start poo pooing it.

[ParkerHayden]

I might also add "As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."

[Deadzone]

I am suprised by the same thing I always am, when I read posts like this. How people take vague generalized statements intended for the media and cite it as definitive and all encompassing.

If you're not involved in the development of the game, you don't know what you can or can't do... Can or can't go... Will or won't be able to wear.

Just wait and see what the game IS at release before you start poo pooing it.


Because some of us have been in the MMO world a little longer than others. We know from EXPERIENCE how things like this go. We can tell from what is said how things will usually end up at the end.

Sometimes we are wrong and more than often we see the writing on the wall before it is even written.
But as I have said before, we just might be wrong. But we call it how we see it ...and we have seen a LOT of it.

[Richman12]

I was wondering would you guys still back STO if it became nothing more then the same as every other MMO I for 1 would not back it.

Would much rather see the company of a bad product rethink and redo the product again then make money off it.

That is if it was a bad product of course.

[Myopic_Aardvark]

Low and behold, they didnt bother to check what their main player base wanted.

Forums are the most vocal part of the player base, but that hardly makes them the main player base :rolleyes:

[Grig]

its not the captian of a small ship got me going.. since i have alot of non MMO ST games that make you captian of a small class ship but in the ranking of a cadet.. its the fact that even in them games i cant be a medical officer or a security officer..

this game is nothing more then that.. cookiee cutter of the offline games you play alone with a npc crew

[ParkerHayden]

its not the captian of a small ship got me going.. since i have alot of non MMO ST games that make you captian of a small class ship but in the ranking of a cadet.. its the fact that even in them games i cant be a medical officer or a security officer..

this game is nothing more then that.. cookiee cutter of the offline games you play alone with a npc crew

They haven't said you can't be Sec/Eng/Sci/Med.

[Neshy]

one thing nobodys understanding here: ITS AN MMO. all mmos are kiil x this, but i could see one mission being travel to vulcan and help a ship thats under attack, beam off survivors, then deal with the attacking ship, kill it or convince it to stand down. i could also see random occasional distress calls, mini missions that pop up. this would be a fun experience for me.

people need to shut up till tomorrow, we dont know anything till we've seen gameplay footage. but keep in mind if it sucks, they can do a major overhaul. like swg but the opposite of ruining it.

cheers

neshy

[Dext]

one thing nobodys understanding here: ITS AN MMO. all mmos are kiil x this, but i could see one mission being travel to vulcan and help a ship thats under attack, beam off survivors, then deal with the attacking ship, kill it or convince it to stand down. i could also see random occasional distress calls, mini missions that pop up. this would be a fun experience for me.

people need to shut up till tomorrow, we dont know anything till we've seen gameplay footage. but keep in mind if it sucks, they can do a major overhaul. like swg but the opposite of ruining it.

cheers

neshy

I can see this

[Colm]

A lot of you are overlooking the fact that he said "captain of a small ship". He might not have meant the rank, but the position. And by small, he probably means shuttles and runabouts, and you rise in rank to get better/bigger ships. This is all way too premature.
I might also add "As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."
I was just thinking that, reading thru the "100 billion captains" post. I guess they mean "captain" as in you have a ship you can pilot, not the military rank of captain. So people will be space bound from the beginning of the game. And being at the head of a galaxy class ship will be possible but only with much effort and progress in the game.

[Jenkl]

Forums are the most vocal part of the player base, but that hardly makes them the main player base :rolleyes:

That is true. But it's important for them to stay true to the IP, which is something I think the forum-base does represent well. Most people won't be excited for this game until real gameplay info comes out, so it's mostly trek-fans here and when you're making a trek game, that should be priority 1.

I too get the feeling this game will not be that great... it's a vibe I get from this tidbit, and from Cryptic's previous games. Star Trek NEEDS something more complex then Cryptic has delivered in the past. Fingers crossed for the 10th though.

[admriker444]

A lot of you are overlooking the fact that he said "captain of a small ship". He might not have meant the rank, but the position. And by small, he probably means shuttles and runabouts, and you rise in rank to get better/bigger ships. This is all way too premature.

clearly you and others are missing the point.

I dont care about semantics. I dont care about titles.

What I and many others cared about was being able to work TOGETHER serving on the same ship. We want ship interiors for many many reasons...

Ship interiors means someone would play the role as chef, someone might take up engineer, someone might want to be security, someone will be a scientist, someone will play with bridge command, someone will get to play around in the Holo suites, etc etc etc.

It meant having our own personal quarters we could decorate. It meant social gatherings in the mess hall or the holodeck. It meant things to do besides killing stuff based on some lame combat focused design.

Instead what we are going to get is one choice....bridge command.

Not everyone wants (in fact according to many polls done) to be the Captain in control of a ship. Many of us wanted to run a bar on a space station or a planet. Many of us wanted to be diplomats or maybe a romulan spy. Some wanted to be a part of a large guild run ship as an engineer.

This one option means we dont get any other options. I dont want to be Captain Kirk, I wanted to be Quark or maybe a 1st Officer who took care of ship assignments, etc.

There is nothing wrong with giving players a shuttle craft to pilot on their own. In fact Id want one as well. But a galaxy class ship should be a living breathing interactive world with dozens of players working together for a common goal.

People here say it wouldnt work because the engineer might not be online that day so the ship cant fly. I disagree. In other MMO's a 4 man group of friends doesnt stop playing because theyre short a 5th man. They simply recruit another player short-term to finish that dungeon and it would work fine here as well..."constellation class crew looking for an engineer certified with warp 5 engines to help with romulan neutral zone dispute mission pst"

Star Trek fans deserves more than this simplistic low-brow linear theme park design theyre trying to give us.

[Thorgar]

Some posters here are actually suprised by Cryptic's latest info on the game. In case you missed it...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikj6V-CYYWISldz8cmkiJ9avC11QD92E92UG0

"Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."


Did you all actually believe we'd get a complex interactive MMO virtual galaxy simulator ?

All one needs to do is look at Cryptics other work...City of Heroes. That game is about as complex as a paper towel.

Ive kissed this game goodbye already. It wont allow me to own a bar and just be an explorer. Clearly its going to be a simplistic combat shooter game focused on boring missions. Rank, level, its all the same thing....it means kill x number of rats or ferengi to gain a lvl....LAME

OH very clever, instead of allowing players to work together on a ship...you know because this is an MMO after all....instead we get to hire npc crewmates like another lame so-called MMO Guildwars.

Its clear now why this game is destined for consoles...simplistic linear design and pew pew combat only a gamepad could love.

Im not surprised but I was hoping I would be proven wrong.

This game will epic fail because its not catering to its core audience.

*coughtrollcough* dont play would hate to run into such an arse online anyway.

[marshalleck]

Some posters here are actually suprised by Cryptic's latest info on the game. In case you missed it...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikj6V-CYYWISldz8cmkiJ9avC11QD92E92UG0

"Jack Emmert, Cryptic Chief Creative Officer, said players will begin "Star Trek Online" as the captain of a small Starfleet or Klingon Empire ship. They can customize their characters from pre-existing "Trek" species — from Klingons to Gorn — and can create entirely new alien races. As they progress through the game, players can increase in rank and gain larger vessels and more crew."


Did you all actually believe we'd get a complex interactive MMO virtual galaxy simulator ?

All one needs to do is look at Cryptics other work...City of Heroes. That game is about as complex as a paper towel.

Ive kissed this game goodbye already. It wont allow me to own a bar and just be an explorer. Clearly its going to be a simplistic combat shooter game focused on boring missions. Rank, level, its all the same thing....it means kill x number of rats or ferengi to gain a lvl....LAME

OH very clever, instead of allowing players to work together on a ship...you know because this is an MMO after all....instead we get to hire npc crewmates like another lame so-called MMO Guildwars.

Its clear now why this game is destined for consoles...simplistic linear design and pew pew combat only a gamepad could love.

Im not surprised but I was hoping I would be proven wrong.

This game will epic fail because its not catering to its core audience.

You nailed it. Unfortunately.

[admriker444]

Because some of us have been in the MMO world a little longer than others. We know from EXPERIENCE how things like this go. We can tell from what is said how things will usually end up at the end.

Sometimes we are wrong and more than often we see the writing on the wall before it is even written.
But as I have said before, we just might be wrong. But we call it how we see it ...and we have seen a LOT of it.


Bingo

Ive played MMO's since the very first one came out 10+ years ago. I know "dev speak" and can interpret it quite easily.

Captain of a ship with my own crew means...

No ship interiors (or if they exist its very small instanced version)
No guild run player ships
Im alone on my ship with some lamo guildwars type of npcs that I can hire to assist me

It also means this game will be linear design focusing on combat, something many of us trekkers dont want. There are plenty of Trek rpgs out there I can play if I just wanna blow stuff up.

I dont really need to wait for Sunday to see what Cryptic has in store for us.

[marshalleck]

It's basically EVE without the depth, complexity, and longevity. In other words, everything that makes that type of game fun.

Great. /sarcasm

[admriker444]

It's basically EVE without the depth, complexity, and longevity. In other words, everything that makes that type of game fun.

Great. /sarcasm

pretty much

[Esquire]

Sorry if I don't agree with some that want 60 man EQ or WoW raids on a starship. Sorry if I do not want to be the "red shirt" on your crew. If I wanted to play WoW, I would. I'm not looking for WoW in a trek skin.

They haven't said if grouping will or will not be required on any ship as yet. And for anyone to compare this with what SOE did to SWG is completely unwarrented.

In fact, on the MMORPG.com refuge forums, these guy's games were said to be decently stable. That's what I'm looking for. We all ask for a MMO with a "out of the box build" and when we get something, it automaticly compared to everything else out there?

[Legate_Xexyz]

Why start **** talking a game before you have any hard info on what its going to be like? So Star Trek isnt really about away missions and star ship combat, I'll give you that - BUT - Away missions and star ship combat are the ACTION of Star Trek. We all love the character interaction, the awesome plot twists and the societal messages throughout all the series, but those characters are gone in this timeline, and Cryptic has to come up with something fun to play. The game may not have a non-combat oriented approach to progression, but then again, how many mmos provide a really fleshed out and - heres the key word - FUN - diplomatic or ecenomic progression system? And really, how the hell do we know that these away missions are all going to be "go here and kill these aliens" or "go collect 20 boxes of yamak sauce"? Maybe the Star Trek fans working at Cryptic are making some really fun story-based away missions that will have you doing more than mundane phaser chores. I'm personally looking forward to tommorow's presentation, and I hope that Cryptic will deliver.

[marshalleck]

Sorry if I don't agree with some that want 60 man EQ or WoW raids on a starship. Sorry if I do not want to be the "red shirt" on your crew. If I wanted to play WoW, I would. I'm not looking for WoW in a trek skin.

They haven't said if grouping will or will not be required on any ship as yet. And for anyone to compare this with what SOE did to SWG is completely unwarrented.

In fact, on the MMORPG.com refuge forums, these guy's games were said to be decently stable. That's what I'm looking for. We all ask for a MMO with a "out of the box build" and when we get something, it automaticly compared to everything else out there?

First of all, nobody is saying you should require 60 people to control a ship. That's a straw man argument, so just drop it. My problem is they are apparently delivering a vanilla, single-player space combat style game, adding IRC to it and calling it an MMO and charging $15 a month to play it.

[Thorgar]

Bingo

Ive played MMO's since the very first one came out 10+ years ago. I know "dev speak" and can interpret it quite easily.

Captain of a ship with my own crew means...

No ship interiors (or if they exist its very small instanced version)
No guild run player ships
Im alone on my ship with some lamo guildwars type of npcs that I can hire to assist me

It also means this game will be linear design focusing on combat, something many of us trekkers dont want. There are plenty of Trek rpgs out there I can play if I just wanna blow stuff up.

I dont really need to wait for Sunday to see what Cryptic has in store for us.

LOL i love how you already know exactly how they are making everything and are screaming foul. Do you work for cryptic? Do you work for one of the competitors? So great swammi of knowledge where are you pulling this information out of? hmm i think i know and it explains the stink.

Look if your really this P.O.'d about the whole thing and dont need to see anything more, THEN LEAVE. If your staying around because you hate what they are doing, you need psychological attention and help. if your staying just to stir up as much crap as you can then your a troll, and you need to get a life.

If in some way your trying to help the devs by showing them that your displeased, then try writing out what you think would make a better game and how they could do it. Trust me they listen to the community, they already changed a couple of game decisions in Champions based on community input, and im not talking the loudest whiners. \

So if you want to help, then im right there with you, how ever if you want to just stir crap up because thats how you get off your jollies ill step on you every step of the way.

[marshalleck]

LOL i love how you already know exactly how they are making everything and are screaming foul. Do you work for cryptic? Do you work for one of the competitors? So great swammi of knowledge where are you pulling this information out of? hmm i think i know and it explains the stink.

Look if your really this P.O.'d about the whole thing and dont need to see anything more, THEN LEAVE.

That's exactly what people are going to do. Enjoy the server merges a month after the game goes live.

We don't need to know how to build a better game, at least not until Cryptic starts paying us to develop their game. We just need to know whether this is a Star Trek MMORPG or just an online space combat shooter.

[sylvermane64]

Bingo

Ive played MMO's since the very first one came out 10+ years ago. I know "dev speak" and can interpret it quite easily.

Captain of a ship with my own crew means...

No ship interiors (or if they exist its very small instanced version)
No guild run player ships
Im alone on my ship with some lamo guildwars type of npcs that I can hire to assist me

It also means this game will be linear design focusing on combat, something many of us trekkers dont want. There are plenty of Trek rpgs out there I can play if I just wanna blow stuff up.

I dont really need to wait for Sunday to see what Cryptic has in store for us.

Then why are you posting?

Your nothing but one of those "I'm not getting my way, so this game is doomed."

Fine, thats YOUR opinion. Personally, I'll wait till tomorrow and then make a decision. Either way, I'm going to try it out and see.

That's called being open minded and giving the game a chance. Thank god your opinion doesn't really matter.

[Thorgar]

That's exactly what people are going to do. Enjoy the server merges a month after the game goes live.

if arses like you are not there i will.

[sylvermane64]

First of all, nobody is saying you should require 60 people to control a ship. That's a straw man argument, so just drop it. My problem is they are apparently delivering a vanilla, single-player space combat style game, adding IRC to it and calling it an MMO and charging $15 a month to play it.

No, your problem is your ASSUMING that is what the game is about, yet you have absolutely NO CLUE, since no one else does other than the Devs.

Your on step 400, and the game hasn't even passed step 5 yet.

[marshalleck]

No, your problem is your ASSUMING that is what the game is about, yet you have absolutely NO CLUE, since no one else does other than the Devs.

Your on step 400, and the game hasn't even passed step 5 yet.

I've played MMOs for over 10 years and video games for over 20. I can see the train wreck coming a mile away. We'll see who is right.

[Thorgar]

First of all, nobody is saying you should require 60 people to control a ship. That's a straw man argument, so just drop it. My problem is they are apparently delivering a vanilla, single-player space combat style game, adding IRC to it and calling it an MMO and charging $15 a month to play it.

and that irc happens to have planetside and inside your ship adventrures... oh wait thats right according to you they wont have any inside the ship stuff because its just EVE online. dude your a crappy wanna be troll, go back to EVE and tell them we have the makings of a good game and sit on it and rotate.

[Thorgar]

I've played MMOs for over 10 years and video games for over 20. I can see the train wreck coming a mile away. We'll see who is right.

looks like i got you beat in years, so by your reasoning (if you can call it that) i know more than you so youll be wrong. YAYE!!

[marshalleck]

and that irc happens to have planetside and inside your ship adventrures... oh wait thats right according to you they wont have any inside the ship stuff because its just EVE online. dude your a crappy wanna be troll, go back to EVE and tell them we have the makings of a good game and sit on it and rotate.

Sure, inside your ship adventures with your NPC crew! So exciting! Man I can't wait to pay $15 a month for this single-player game experience!

[Esquire]

First of all, nobody is saying you should require 60 people to control a ship. That's a straw man argument, so just drop it. My problem is they are apparently delivering a vanilla, single-player space combat style game, adding IRC to it and calling it an MMO and charging $15 a month to play it.

We don't know enough about it yet to make a choice either way, yet. They almost HAVE to set up something like this to get levels/skills/whatever pretty much solo. Even with 700K players, in AoC, it was hard to find groups for the lower level content. Hours of spamming to do a lower level raid.

So letting every1 level or skill solo does not bother me a single bit.

We have no idea of what grouping will be like in the game. We have no idea of end game "raids" or "Heroics". So give them a break and let them make the game without a crying festival even before the game comes out.

[marshalleck]

We have no idea of end game "raids" or "Heroics".
The fact you even say this at all in relation to a Star Trek MMO makes me sad, and tells me you barely have any experience with MMORPGs as a genre.

[sylvermane64]

I've played MMOs for over 10 years and video games for over 20. I can see the train wreck coming a mile away.

Wow, I'm so impressed. /sarcasm

You don't know crap, and your assuming everything.

I can sit here and tell you I've been playing MMOs since the days of Dragonrealm (text based, but it was the start). I've beta tested EQ, SWG, WoW, AoC, CoH, DAoC, AO but that doesn't mean I can see the future of THIS game.

People like you live to naysay everything if it doesn't fit into what YOU want. Your not me, or anyone else here. That's the beauty of the world at large. We all have different opinions on what we, as individuals, like and dislike.

Most of the rational folks don't waste the time to continuiously doom a game before its even out, we wait paitently, give our input and hope for the best.

But you Whinebabies do have your place in the scheme of things. We can show our kids how NOT to be a self centered, egotistical a$$hat that whines and moans if they don't get their way.

[Thorgar]

Sure, inside your ship adventures with your NPC crew! So exciting! Man I can't wait to pay $15 a month for this single-player game experience!

who says it wont be with fellows teamed up from ship to ship, the devs? noooo hmmmm the game play testers?... nooo. some schmuck who just likes hating a game he knows nothing about and likes to start shit? ...ding ding ding ding.. we have a loser and its named marshalleck!!!

[marshalleck]

Wow, I'm so impressed. /sarcasm

You don't know crap, and your assuming everything.

I can sit here and tell you I've been playing MMOs since the days of Dragonrealm (text based, but it was the start). I've beta tested EQ, SWG, WoW, AoC, CoH, DAoC, AO but that doesn't mean I can see the future of THIS game.

Then you're not very good at analyzing the industry and recognizing trends.

People like you live to naysay everything if it doesn't fit into what YOU want. Your not me, or anyone else here. That's the beauty of the world at large. We all have different opinions on what we, as individuals, like and dislike.

Sounds like a good reason to NOT force everyone to be a Captain and cruise the galaxy with an NPC crew.

Most of the rational folks don't waste the time to continuiously doom a game before its even out, we wait paitently, give our input and hope for the best.

Which would explain why developers keep thinking they can release any piece of crap game and still cash in. I'm looking right at you, Age of Conan.

But you Whinebabies do have your place in the scheme of things. We can show our kids how NOT to be a self centered, egotistical a$$hat that whines and moans if they don't get their way.

Ad hominem attacks? Really, that's all you can do? Is that how you're going to teach your kids to handle people with conflicting opinions?

[ngille]

A lot of you are overlooking the fact that he said "captain of a small ship". He might not have meant the rank, but the position. And by small, he probably means shuttles and runabouts, and you rise in rank to get better/bigger ships. This is all way too premature.


You may be right but people don't want to look at anything that might be positive. That and when you are on your high horse, its hard to see reason.

[ParkerHayden]

clearly you and others are missing the point.

I dont care about semantics. I dont care about titles.

What I and many others cared about was being able to work TOGETHER serving on the same ship. We want ship interiors for many many reasons...

Ship interiors means someone would play the role as chef, someone might take up engineer, someone might want to be security, someone will be a scientist, someone will play with bridge command, someone will get to play around in the Holo suites, etc etc etc.

It meant having our own personal quarters we could decorate. It meant social gatherings in the mess hall or the holodeck. It meant things to do besides killing stuff based on some lame combat focused design.

Instead what we are going to get is one choice....bridge command.

Not everyone wants (in fact according to many polls done) to be the Captain in control of a ship. Many of us wanted to run a bar on a space station or a planet. Many of us wanted to be diplomats or maybe a romulan spy. Some wanted to be a part of a large guild run ship as an engineer.

This one option means we dont get any other options. I dont want to be Captain Kirk, I wanted to be Quark or maybe a 1st Officer who took care of ship assignments, etc.

There is nothing wrong with giving players a shuttle craft to pilot on their own. In fact Id want one as well. But a galaxy class ship should be a living breathing interactive world with dozens of players working together for a common goal.

People here say it wouldnt work because the engineer might not be online that day so the ship cant fly. I disagree. In other MMO's a 4 man group of friends doesnt stop playing because theyre short a 5th man. They simply recruit another player short-term to finish that dungeon and it would work fine here as well..."constellation class crew looking for an engineer certified with warp 5 engines to help with romulan neutral zone dispute mission pst"

Star Trek fans deserves more than this simplistic low-brow linear theme park design theyre trying to give us.
You don't know any of this. They never said we can't play as the other professions. Everyone here is making speculation. Until they say "Command is the only choice", I will join the rest of you. Don't get me wrong: I want to play as one of the subordinate classes, but I won't be overly unhappy if Command is the only choice. Yes, I will be disappointed, but I'm looking for a good Trek game to enjoy with others. If it is indeed a bad game, I won't play it.

[sylvermane64]

Then you're not very good at analyzing the industry and recognizing trends.



Sounds like a good reason to NOT force everyone to be a Captain and cruise the galaxy with an NPC crew.



Which would explain why developers keep thinking they can release any piece of crap game and still cash in. I'm looking right at you, Age of Conan.



Ad hominem attacks? Really, that's all you can do?

I rest my case. Trolls like you don't last long. But please keep it up, you amuse us all with your subpar IQ that you are showing.

Personally, if brains were a fuel, you couldn't power a flea car around the inside of a Fruit Loop. But of course that is my opinion.

[Esquire]

The fact you even say this at all in relation to a Star Trek MMO makes me sad, and tells me you barely have any experience with MMORPGs as a genre.

SO you turn this into a personal attack. I think I've seen that tatic before on the SWG forums. And here I thought my measley 52 years gave me some experience.

If your looking for sandbox MMO for STO, good luck. If your looking for a Koster Sandbox MMO for STO, you'll need all the luck you can get.

[Thorgar]

SO you turn this into a personal attack. I think I've seen that tatic before on the SWG forums. And here I thought my measley 52 years gave me some experience.

If your looking for sandbox MMO for STO, good luck. If your looking for a Koster Sandbox MMO for STO, you'll need all the luck you can get.

heh he does that well, im voting him for the first to get banned from the forums LOL

[marshalleck]

SO you turn this into a personal attack.

Attack? How is that an attack? There's much more to MMORPGs than raids and "heroics" and I was just disappointed that you seemed to assume STO would have them at all.

[ngille]

settle down guys. No need to turn on the flame throwers.
We all have differing opinions of what the article represents for the game and until Cryptic says more on the subject, that's all we got is opinions.

[Capt._D]

Okay I’m not one to ruffle feathers but I have the need to be blunt… can we all just stop winning about this. I found my self doing the same thing until I realized that asking anyone to create a game where you have 6 real living player doing the day to day operations of a Starship just isn’t practical.

Just think about it. Your ship is moving along then all of a sudden a ship de-cloaks and starts to fire. How many different things are supposed to happen to combat this threat? And who is really the one responsible… and who will be getting most of the action… the Captain. He will order the red alert. He will order a hail, he will order “emergency power to shields, weapons, ect. He will order evasive maneuvers. So basically it comes down to one person anyway. I for one don’t want to play a **game** where all my work for the past 5 months is lost because of some 16 year old who is sitting in the center seat.

Some things are just to intricate for it work. Battle scenes would take 30 minutes or more and if any one part of that equation messes up you lose. This isn’t really Starfleet and we aren’t talking about real ships here. If we where and we went through real training even then this would be hard.

Instead it looks like you will be captain but you won’t just be required to “level up” yourself instead all of your crew will require training too. Its not exactly what we wanted… but we aren’t talking end of the word here either.

And I pity anyone who is the Chief Engineer or First officer or CMO... What are they supposed to do? And if your ship is destroyed all their hard work is gone and they really didn’t have a say in anything…

[marshalleck]

heh he does that well, im voting him for the first to get banned from the forums LOL

Well, you'd have to point out where I have violated any of the forum rules. And no, having an opinion different from your own doesn't count. Keep calling me a troll and an idiot though, that's always a persuasive and convincing argument. ;)

[Thorgar]

Okay I’m not one to ruffle feathers but I have the need to be blunt… can we all just stop winning about this. I found my self doing the same thing until I realized that asking anyone to create a game where you have 6 real living player doing the day to day operations of a Starship just isn’t practical.

Just think about it. Your ship is moving along then all of a sudden a ship de-cloaks and starts to fire. How many different things are supposed to happen to combat this threat? And who is really the one responsible… and who will be getting most of the action… the Captain. He will order the red alert. He will order a hail, he will order “emergency power to shields, weapons, ect. He will order evasive maneuvers. So basically it comes down to one person anyway. I for one don’t want to play a **game** where all my work for the past 5 months is lost because of some 16 year old who is sitting in the center seat.

Some things are just to intricate for it work. Battle scenes would take 30 minutes or more and if any one part of that equation messes up you lose. This isn’t really Starfleet and we aren’t talking about real ships here. If we where and we went through real training even then this would be hard.

Instead it looks like you will be captain but you won’t just be required to “level up” yourself instead all of your crew will require training too. Its not exactly what we wanted… but we aren’t talking end of the word here either.

And I pity anyone who is the Chef Engineer or First officer or CMO... What are they supposed to do? And if your ship is destroyed all their hard work is gone and they really didn’t have a say in anything…

yeah tried that on a muck once oh man that was such a headache.

Cryptic is a surprisingly good studio thats full of gamer geeks, from trekkies to pnp gamers. They have made mistakes in the past but have the balls to actualy admit it and go forward not making the same mistakes. im all for waiting and seeing what they do.

have i some concerns over the mechanics of how they will do some things, yes. Will i cry foul and scream like a baby that just got its bottle stolen, no. will i step on trolls with much glee and have fun with them, yes

[Ramierez]

We don't know enough about it yet to make a choice either way, yet. They almost HAVE to set up something like this to get levels/skills/whatever pretty much solo. Even with 700K players, in AoC, it was hard to find groups for the lower level content. Hours of spamming to do a lower level raid.

It's hard to find groups in AoC because there's too much solo content...people have no need to group to level ever, so they don't. That's why AoC fails horribly as an MMO imho, because they completely ignored the fact that it's MM. It's an 80 level tutorial to do PvP sieges and some fairly insignificant raid encounters.


Anyway...if I can interrupt the imminent flame wars of this thread.

Some have to realize that a lot of the reasons why for all the passion in so many of these threads is because of the strong desires and opinions of the strongest level of the Trek fanbase. The majority of the fanbase is still trickling in, and then there's a few that saw a new MMO and just joined up not caring much about what it was.

Also, a lot of the problems lately is that there are so many MMOs out there now and so many of us have sat through development only to feel supremely cheated when they're released, or at some point in the middle of development when the devs announced some horrible feature, etc, that totally put them off it regardless of how interesting the IP it's based on is.

These things combined is why STO hasn't existed before now. If I were a developer I'd figure that I'd have to be crazy to take on Star Trek unless I knew I had it nailed. It's one of, if not The, biggest Science Fiction IP's that you can find.

I don't know if it would have the potential to beat WoW (which in my opinion most already do since I personally think it sucks, but this is talking in subscriptions), but if it is done properly, the trekkers will let everyone they know hear about it, and the same is true the other way around. If it's utter crap from a trekker's standpoint, you won't be able to Stumble anything about games without coming across "STO is the worst MMO ever made" articles. However, if they even manage to come close, then they will have subscribers until the day the server is turned off.

[Esquire]

Attack? How is that an attack? There's much more to MMORPGs than raids and "heroics" and I was just disappointed that you seemed to assume STO would have them at all.

Your the 1 that came up with my so-called inexperience. And the key feature is. WE don't have even an idea if they will be included or NOT. IF you want sandbox, head for EU. I'm playing it atm, myself. Funny thing is, there hasn't been a EU or SWG since EU or SWG. hmmmmm.

So, I think I'll wait for the NGE to start screaming about an NGE. STO has done nothing to cry about.

[Thorgar]

Well, you'd have to point out where I have violated any of the forum rules. And no, having an opinion different from your own doesn't count. Keep calling me a troll and an idiot though, that's always a persuasive and convincing argument. ;)

until you can actualy post without sounding like a troll and hater, then ill keep it up. Id honestly much rather have some fun indepth debates with you, however you cannot debat with someone who makes sweeping statements that leave no room for counter point. You honestly do not KNOW what will happen, you can express your opinion and say "hey this has me worried this could easily fall into this rut like other games". once you step in like that then we can counter each others well thought out arguments and maybe add to this community, which is something i enjoy.

[sylvermane64]

Well, you'd have to point out where I have violated any of the forum rules. And no, having an opinion different from your own doesn't count. Keep calling me a troll and an idiot though, that's always a persuasive and convincing argument. ;)

You are the perfect definition of a Troll. You obviously haven't played many MMOs if you didn't know that. All your posts are negative on non-constructive. Which is all the more laughable when you take into fact that there is 'very' little about what the game mechanics will bring.

But yet you ASSUME that you know everything, and that this game is already a dismal failure, and you post that the game sucks and will fail with nearly every one one of your posts. Look in the mirror Troll Boy.

[danubus]

I am in a wait and see mode myself in regards to this game. I am hoping it wont be me controlling a ship with npc crewmen. I want to participate in a ship with other real life players manning stations onboard the ships and bases. If this is just going to be a space shooter like Eve then Ill play something else.

[ChiefBrex]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

Let's also not forget that, Cryptic has these forums to monitor what we say. If Cryptic is smart, they'll listen to the "core fan base". Just because they're showing game footage doesn't mean that it can't be changed. Granted, changes would lead to a push back on a release date, if they've already got one in mind, but, you know what. I'd rather wait a year, or 2, or even 3, if it means making STO better. I mean, we've waited this long already for an MMO. Patience is a virtue after all.

[marshalleck]

You are the perfect definition of a Troll. You obviously haven't played many MMOs if you didn't know that. All your posts are negative on non-constructive. Which is all the more laughable when you take into fact that there is 'very' little about what the game mechanics will bring.

But yet you ASSUME that you know everything, and that this game is already a dismal failure, and you post that the game sucks and will fail with nearly every one one of your posts. Look in the mirror Troll Boy.

No assumptions. I am reacting to the concepts presented so far; unfortunately, and apparently unlike yourself I view "Captain and NPC crew" to be extremely limiting and contrary to the nature of an MMORPG. You're right, we don't know, I don't know everything about the game. The point is, that knowledge is not required for me to know what I think a Star Trek MMO should not be.

[Esquire]

No assumptions. I am reacting to the concepts presented so far; unfortunately, and apparently unlike yourself I view "Captain and NPC crew" to be extremely limiting and contrary to the nature of an MMORPG. You're right, we don't know, I don't know everything about the game. The point is, that knowledge is not required for me to know what I think a Star Trek MMO should not be.

Thats easy to fix. Get ahold of Majel Barret and CBS, pitch your ideas, write a big check and start development on your own game. If thats not a possiblity, then let these guys have their shot at it.

[Neshy]

Captain of a ship with my own crew means...

No ship interiors (or if they exist its very small instanced version)
.
I strongly disagree. i could see taking a trip down to engineering or sickbay to talk to an npc or check something out.

[marshalleck]

Thats easy to fix. Get ahold of Majel Barret and CBS, pitch your ideas, write a big check and start development on your own game. If thats not a possiblity, then let these guys have their shot at it.

The best way to guarantee failure is to never say "hey wait, I think this is wrong..."

Age of Conan
Vanguard
Star Wars Galaxies

[Esquire]

The best way to guarantee failure is to never say "hey wait, I think this is wrong..."

Age of Conan
Vanguard
Star Wars Galaxies

But now, when we know NOTHING about it, is not the time. It has even came to light that SOE CHANGED SWG in beta to sandbox now.

I'm almost willing to say that you will probably find something that you don't like. But, there is nothing to find right now. We just don't know enough yet.

[marshalleck]

But now, when we know NOTHING about it, is not the time. It has even came to light that SOE CHANGED SWG in beta to sandbox now.


Oh I disagree. The main selling point they've announced is, to me in my own subjective opinion, completely wrong and backward. This is the time for me to speak up.

[Thorgar]

But now, when we know NOTHING about it, is not the time. It has even came to light that SOE CHANGED SWG in beta to sandbox now.

I'm almost willing to say that you will probably find something that you don't like. But, there is nothing to find right now. We just don't know enough yet.

dont mind him hes still in troll mode, may never leave troll mode. hopefully he will either not like teh game and leave the forums (if he doesnt he becomes an even more obvious troll), or he will actually try to be part of the community in a more productive manner. oh and i know hell respond to this so, by productive i do not mean a yes man. infact on the champions boards ive threatened to tar and feather cryptic if they drop the ball on champions like they did with the early CoH.

[ParkerHayden]

You all have been arguing for almost five pages. Think you should give it a rest? It seems to be personal insult now, more than anything.

[Thorgar]

Oh I disagree. The main selling point they've announced is, to me in my own subjective opinion, completely wrong and backward. This is the time for me to speak up.

and even if they reversed what you dislike and they make it the way you want, youd still have something you hate and its DOOOM, FAAAAAAIl, EVIIIIIIIL. man that gets so old so fast. try what i suggested earlier and actualy post facts and debatable opinions so maybe you can help fix what you dont like. instead of going "its another SOE" crap that you so trollishly do.

[Capt.Jace]

I haven't read the entire length of this post, but I wanted to point out something if it hasn't been already. The amount of information that has been released so far is relatively small compared to the overall scope of most MMO's. I don't really understand how so many people can write off a game, knowing so little about it. I think that the words in the interview were stated very carefully. They don't tell us everything, but allow us to speculate as to what might be. I've read a lot of posts complaining about being ONLY a captain. I don't think the interview stated this specifically. It said players will "BEGIN" the game as a captain, most likely of a very small cruiser or shuttle. I honestly can't see Cryptic allowing galaxy-class starships at the start. That would effectively eliminate the need to upgrade your ship, as the interview stated you would have to do. Beginning the game as a captain does not necessarily mean it will be the only class or job in the game.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'll just wait till tomorrow like everyone else! :D

[Thorgar]

You all have been arguing for almost five pages.

sorry its so much fun poking the troll :D

[marshalleck]

Since I would be interested in a well-done Star Trek MMO, I will continue to post my opinions about what makes these games good and what makes them bad. I'll keep posting until/unless it becomes apparent that no amount of feedback will influence aspects of the game I don't like. Your appreciation or understanding of my opinion is inconsequential.

[Fluxion]

So, because of a couple of statements in a press release don't coincide perfectly with what you were looking for, the game is going to be a big failure? It's the height of narcissism to believe that because the game may not be what you want it to be, that it is then going to be an epic failure.

I'm sure Cryptic did NO market research. Didn't study any previous MMO models at all. They just pulled this design out of their backsides and said, "here, like it or don't. Who cares?" :rolleyes:

There is no shortage of players that are very happy with what we heard in that press release, and know that it's an MMO...new features will be added on a regular basis. Some of us aren't so cynical. :)

[marshalleck]

So, because of a couple of statements in a press release don't coincide perfectly with what you were looking for, the game is going to be a big failure? It's the height of narcissism to believe that because the game may not be what you want it to be, that it is then going to be an epic failure.

Not just mine. The most popular thread on this forum, and the subject of many more threads is the concept of everyone being a captain. Keep attacking the messengers if you like, it's not going to make the issue go away. Other games have already proven that to be true.

[sylvermane64]

No assumptions. I am reacting to the concepts presented so far; unfortunately, and apparently unlike yourself I view "Captain and NPC crew" to be extremely limiting and contrary to the nature of an MMORPG. You're right, we don't know, I don't know everything about the game. The point is, that knowledge is not required for me to know what I think a Star Trek MMO should not be.

Well, thankfully, what YOU think a ST MMO should be isn't what will define this game.

And I'll quote just a couple of tidbits of your great wisdom about how you believe this game will be a failure...

The main selling point they've announced is, to me in my own subjective opinion, completely wrong and backward.

I'll keep posting until/unless it becomes apparent that no amount of feedback will influence aspects of the game "I" don't like.

I've played MMOs for over 10 years and video games for over 20. "I" can see the train wreck coming a mile away. We'll see who is right.

As you can see in the above quote from your pearls of wisdom, its all about YOU. YOU will not define the game. YOU are not the sole member of the development (thank god).

And right now isn't the time to speak up against the game. When you have FACTS then, that is the time to speak up. Anything prior to that is an assumtion, and just makes you look like a complete ass for already stating that the game is doomed to failure.

[Esquire]

Since I would be interested in a well-done Star Trek MMO, I will continue to post my opinions about what makes these games good and what makes them bad. I'll keep posting until/unless it becomes apparent that no amount of feedback will influence aspects of the game I don't like. Your appreciation or understanding of my opinion is inconsequential.

But there again, it's in your opinion of what makes MMORPGs good or not. Not ev1 has the same ideas, I, personally could not make it thru the 30 days that came with the box, on WoW, but that does not mean that the other 10 million subs that are playing it doesn't enjoy it or pay for it.

Statements like "epic fail" and "enjoy the server merges 1 month after launch" justs tends to lend to the "troll" argument.

[Fluxion]

Not just mine. The most popular thread on this forum, and the subject of many more threads is the concept of everyone being a captain. Keep attacking the messengers if you like, it's not going to make the issue go away. Other games have already proven that to be true.

I attacked no one. You want to try to make yourself out to be a martyr, that's your deal. I only said it's "self-absorbed" to believe that a game will fail because it isn't what you want it to be. I'm confident that Cryptic has done their homework and is pursuing the game model they believe will be the most successful. It just so happens, that I happen to agree with them.

And as far as "make the issue go away?" Don't know what gave you that impression. I think this issue has been some of the most interesting debate on the forums. :)

[Thorgar]

Since I would be interested in a well-done Star Trek MMO, I will continue to post my opinions about what makes these games good and what makes them bad. I'll keep posting until/unless it becomes apparent that no amount of feedback will influence aspects of the game I don't like. Your appreciation or understanding of my opinion is inconsequential.

hey its not that we dont want your opinions and help pointing out mistakes to the devs, but you were not doing that. what you were doing was saying its doomed and a waste of time shortly after you read ONE STATEMENT. Having your own opinion and voicing it is fine, telling all of us that were stupid for looking at the potential good this game will have over how its "obviously a failure" is stupid.

why dont you list with out attacking anyone what you dont like specificly why and HOW to change it. then we as a community can pick it apart and add to it and between the lot of us find a really good idea that the devs might use. but then again you said that they will not listen and their is no saving this game (unless im confusing you for admiralrikker44?) and if thast true WHY are you still here giving us the community that wants to stay and help shyte for it?

[marshalleck]

But there again, it's in your opinion of what makes MMORPGs good or not. Not ev1 has the same ideas, I, personally could not make it thru the 30 days that came with the box, on WoW, but that does not mean that the other 10 million subs that are playing it doesn't enjoy it or pay for it.

Statements like "epic fail" and "enjoy the server merges 1 month after launch" justs tends to lend to the "troll" argument.

I'm pretty sure I've never said epic fail. The main point I'd like to make however is whether or not criticism comes in a format you personally prefer, it is important for Cryptic to look at all of it to gauge how their initial concept is being received. Whether it's someone posting a magazine length article, a couple concise paragraphs or single sentences (me) or someone linguistically barely above the level lolcats, player perceptions are important to a any new MMO attempting to enter the market. At least, they should be.

[marshalleck]

telling all of us that were stupid

I've never done that. This is a fairly transparent attempt to tarball someone you don't agree with.

[Thorgar]

I've never done that. This is a fairly transparent attempt to tarball someone you don't agree with.

nope you didnt just wondered if you were actualy reading my posts. though with your "ive been playing mmo's for blah blah years" statement and others with similar tone you have given the impression that your right and we are wrong. that easily leads to the feeling that your calling everyone here stupid.

[marshalleck]

nope you didnt just wondered if you were actualy reading my posts. though with your "ive been playing mmo's for blah blah years" statement and others with similar tone you have given the impression that your right and we are wrong. that easily leads to the feeling that your calling everyone here stupid.

Lacking context it seems that way. It was more a statement as to my background and why I have the suspicions that I do. As others have mentioned, many of us have seen and are familiar with 'dev speak.' That doesn't make my opinion inherently more worthy or credible; it's just one of many foundations for being concerned with some of the statements made so far.

[Ensign.Ricky]

Heh, all this from a text article and some quotes. You guys make my day.

[conllo]

Well I for one will wait to see what the footage looks like, in what details are contained there, also will be looking closely if this footage is in game footage, or CGI from non player interactions

[Mattastic]

I agree that it's far too early to cast any judgement on this game yet. Hell, even right up before a release date, it's often difficult to tell if a game will be any good -- that is, whether or not they'll be any fun. We can all judge on content, features, graphics, intentions ... but at the end of the day, you won't know if a game's fun until you're playing it.

By the way, most Star Trek games are not fun. I applaud Cryptic for having the balls to persue excellent gameplay instead of listening to every whiney Trekkie's demands for playable tribbles and a complex exobiology system. Here's what I want from STO: when I log off, I want a smile on my face.

Thusfar, I have heard no evidence of them cutting any features that would stop me from having fun. To me, it sounds like I can play solo or with friends (I challenge you to show me where it says you can't fill any of your crew positions with human players), and that there'll be ship interiors and plenty to do. I won't loose sleep over the fact that my science officer might not be permanantly assigned to my ship, or that one or more of my crew might not be controlled by real human beings, or that someone might choose to fly around in his runabout for an hour instead of working with a large crew.

Know what wouldn't be fun? Maintaining a crew and ensuring that everyone's online at the right time and everything has a set position on board. That sounds tedious and frustrating. Or having to spend another 30 minutes in dock trying to find one more player to fill that last slot on your roster who doesn't "type leik thys", because NPC crewmen aren't allowed.

If shallow and uninspired is fun, I'll take it. The rest of your are more than free to vacate the forums and find something else to do with your spare time. Try playing pool. It's awesome.

[Colm]

clearly you and others are missing the point.

I dont care about semantics. I dont care about titles.

What I and many others cared about was being able to work TOGETHER serving on the same ship. We want ship interiors for many many reasons...

Ship interiors means someone would play the role as chef, someone might take up engineer, someone might want to be security, someone will be a scientist, someone will play with bridge command, someone will get to play around in the Holo suites, etc etc etc.

It meant having our own personal quarters we could decorate. It meant social gatherings in the mess hall or the holodeck. It meant things to do besides killing stuff based on some lame combat focused design.

Instead what we are going to get is one choice....bridge command.

Not everyone wants (in fact according to many polls done) to be the Captain in control of a ship. Many of us wanted to run a bar on a space station or a planet. Many of us wanted to be diplomats or maybe a romulan spy. Some wanted to be a part of a large guild run ship as an engineer.

This one option means we dont get any other options. I dont want to be Captain Kirk, I wanted to be Quark or maybe a 1st Officer who took care of ship assignments, etc.

There is nothing wrong with giving players a shuttle craft to pilot on their own. In fact Id want one as well. But a galaxy class ship should be a living breathing interactive world with dozens of players working together for a common goal.

People here say it wouldnt work because the engineer might not be online that day so the ship cant fly. I disagree. In other MMO's a 4 man group of friends doesnt stop playing because theyre short a 5th man. They simply recruit another player short-term to finish that dungeon and it would work fine here as well..."constellation class crew looking for an engineer certified with warp 5 engines to help with romulan neutral zone dispute mission pst"

Star Trek fans deserves more than this simplistic low-brow linear theme park design theyre trying to give us.

Being space bound from the begining of the game does not mean larger ships won't be run by player crews, or that they won't have interiors. It only means every one has a ship to begin with.

I agree that it would be nice to know if larger ships will be run by player crews, but there simply is NO info of that at the time. Let's try to analyse the data we have so far, not what we think might happen in worst case scenario.

If it's just a bridge commander online, I won't even buy the game.

[Richman12]

Being space bound from the begining of the game does not mean larger ships won't be run by player crews, or that they won't have interiors. It only means every one has a ship to begin with.

I agree that it would be nice to know if larger ships will be run by player crews, but there simply is NO info of that at the time. Let's try to analyse the data we have so far, not what we think might happen in worst case scenario.

If it's just a bridge commander online, I won't even buy the game.

I agree with you thier cause I would rather play Legacy if that was the case.

I know for a fact what dev's sometimes do cause very close friend of mine is a dev.

[Deadzone]

I agree with you thier cause I would rather play Legacy if that was the case.

I know for a fact what dev's sometimes do cause very close friend of mine is a dev.

If a majority of the player base wants multi-player run ships for the game, then the dev teams need to seriously consider puting it in and making it a part of the game. NO- it does not have to be a part of release. It can be an expansion/addition somewhere in the future.

My main concern for this game is it turns out just like WOW in space. Easy to lvl. People power-lvling all over the place. No real deturrent for ciminal actions. Thats my main concern. It scares me to death!!!
And as I refused to buy WOW, if STO turns out like that, Cryptic won't be getting my money either.

[admriker444]

But there again, it's in your opinion of what makes MMORPGs good or not. Not ev1 has the same ideas, I, personally could not make it thru the 30 days that came with the box, on WoW, but that does not mean that the other 10 million subs that are playing it doesn't enjoy it or pay for it.

Statements like "epic fail" and "enjoy the server merges 1 month after launch" justs tends to lend to the "troll" argument.

vets like myself have done this dance many times over. Weve been there at the beginning of many MMO's. We tried in vain to tell devs not to go in a certain direction. We watched them ignore us. We listened to the fanbois say comments like "give them a chance" or " maybe they'll add - feature in later"

It gets old after a while because we know whats coming. Making a linear simplistic CoH style game isnt going to satisfy Star Trek fans.

This game has two possible destinations...

virtual world with sanbox open play... 500-750k players
linear coh low-brow play....25-75k players

Look at Star Wars Galaxies for proof of what Im predicting...

Star Wars when it was a virtual world sandbox game had 250k players

When Sony changed it to a linear game where everyone could be Luke Skyalker instead of a simple moisture farmer they lost all their players. The game fell to 20k players...proof that more of us would rather live in the game than be a lame captain or jedi hero.

Is a battle for ideology. We want the better product, the corporate suits wanna feed us the cheapest product available

[Trekkie]

I really think that people are reading into this single article a bit too much. True, there were some hints about different gameplay aspects, but I think people should wait to see the gameplay footage before deciding what will or will not definitely be in the game.

[Kinjiru]

I will wait until Sunday before I start naysaying. Words and phrases can be misinterpreted, but actually seeing something working, that's the proof, or at least Sunday will be the first insight into the proof if you like. To everyone who is assuming that this will be 'lame', I say this, hold your tongues and don't form opinions in haste. Give Cryptic the opportunity to prove us right or wrong before you write them off completely...

Damned straight man. I agree.

[admriker444]

I really think that people are reading into this single article a bit too much. True, there were some hints about different gameplay aspects, but I think people should wait to see the gameplay footage before deciding what will or will not definitely be in the game.

I dont need to "wait and see"

Unless they radically alter their design or the guy in the interview mispoke its clear what kind of game this will be.

Plus all one needs to do is look at their other work, CoH. Not exactly a complex sophisticated MMO.

I did the wait and see dance with...

Dark and Light
Age of Conan
Matrix
Vanguard
Face of Mankind
Auto Assault

to name just a few MMO's that anyone outside of fanboism could smell coming.

Unless tomorrow has some major revamp, single player captain ships = epic fail

[TheMasterpiece]

You are right. This game will probably be a epic non trekkish fail.

But i will probably still play it, even how bad its looking. Maybe itll get better? Probably not. But anyway





I agree with the first part. I was really really looking for a deep immersive universe. I honestly thought thatd be what we got.

Let me say this though, city of heroes doesnt have to be complex. U can make an easy to get into action based game.

Star trek is much deeper and richer and we NEED and EXPECT more. If this game offers what he said, starting off a captain on your own, it will be a huge embarassment and another set back for the star trek IP

[jsutich]

This thread has gone straight to flame war status, so it's no surprise it's being locked.