Looks like there no classes according to Jack Emmert…

[mikester101]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

[ianobs]

man just try to keep positive. and if i may make a very valid point, that interview was very very short and could have no way been a complete overview of STO. so dude please try too keep it positive there are a lot of people actualy looking forward to this game

[mikester101]

man just try to keep positive. and if i may make a very valid point, that interview was very very short and could have no way been a complete overview of STO. so dude please try too keep it positive there are a lot of people actualy looking forward to this game

well if Jack Emmert, and all the other people working on this game even read the forum, they would see that every other post is about clasess and that the most read post is "100 billion captains" the last thing developers wan't is to turn off "possible buyers" i think they would of said somthing about classes, that way they could get players excited

[DeaconX]

IF indeed they are going the way of 'Pirates of the Burning Sea' where everyone is their own ship's captain, than I hope they at least have a really good system to let you have a customizable crew / away team NPC's -- though personally I'd have no problem being a part of a crew in any manner.

[Cyjack]

Hey look...its a dead horse! Cool. And a little smelly...


Yes, Im sure it will fail, just like that MMO where everyone is a Superhero, and that other MMO where everyone is a Fantasy adventurer failed. Oh wait...they're ALL like that.


.

[mikester101]

Hey look...its a dead horse! Cool. And a little smelly...


Yes, Im sure it will fail, just like that MMO where everyone is a Superhero, and that other MMO where everyone is a Fantasy adventurer failed. Oh wait...they're ALL like that.


.

city of heros and villians had a class system last time i checked..

[Arcturus]

Pirates of the Burning Sea has everyone be captain and it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong the game IS bad, but for other reasons they can patch. well it's SoE so I don't hold high hopes.

[Cyjack]

city of heros and villians had a class system last time i checked..

Yes, they have different abilities within the genre, that make for very different play experiences. So will Champions Online, So will this game. All characters in every MMO are the same on some level. MOST gamers complain when there ARE cookie cutter classes, and want more freedom to make the character they want.

This game may even have more Axes of differentiation than most : Character Abilities...Ship Type/Ship Abilities...Crew type/Crew Abilities.

In any event, theres already a thread on this, where all of this has already been said, ad nauseum. Go beat this dead horse in there:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=3799

[mikester101]

Pirates of the Burning Sea has everyone be captain and it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong the game IS bad, but for other reasons they can patch. well it's SoE so I don't hold high hopes.

personally i think perpetual was doing a much better job...

[Capt._D]

I think the important part is that your character will have the potential to be different. And who is to say that every ship has to be a destroyer or cruiser or dreadnought? Maybe they will have repair ships and cargo ships, science ships and medical ships… you could be Captain of one of those ships and still be specialized to a certain department.

The other thing EVERYONE needs to realize is that we are all talking about step 128 when this game is only on step 25 and we know about to 2% of what there is to know about this game. So just give it a chance. Check back in a few months and see what is new. Try not to dismiss this game outright because one, two, or thee things you wanted don’t get integrated.

-with regards

[ianobs]

i think that the whole point is that your basing your statement of failure on unclear info. and its a good point to make that nothing is forever. especial in games a new game will come out in a year and the gamers with attention spans measured in nano-seconds will see a shiny red ball and go chase it across the street.

e.g. EQ existed and then SWG came out, then WOW came out, then guild wars came out and then 360 got popular and then they played halo 3, and wii was cheaper so they played wii sports 50 times and then went to another thing and so on and so on.

[Cyjack]

personally i think perpetual was doing a much better job...

yeah, with their handful of doctored images, concept art, and vapor...:rolleyes:

[mikester101]

Yes, they have different abilities within the genre, that make for very different play experiences. So will Champions Online, So will this game. All characters in every MMO are the same on some level. MOST gamers complain when there ARE cookie cutter classes, and want more freedom to make the character they want.

This game may even have more Axes of differentiation than most : Character Abilities...Ship Type/Ship Abilities...Crew type/Crew Abilities.

In any event, theres already a thread on this, where all of this has already been said, ad nauseum. Go beat this dead horse in there:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=3799


Character abilities, ship types/ship abilities...Crew type/Crew abilities are NOT classes there CUSTOMIZATION, all mmos have customization, but can u be a doctor, scientist engineer, ect? From what i have been reading... no. City of heroes allowed you to be a healer, tanker, ect. Those ARE classes. o and i have freedom of speech were i live so i can repost a topic if i want to, unlike u i am not glued to this forum so i don't know EVERYTHING that has been posted

[PicardCity4]

One Observation from Emmeret's post shows that you will have career options as in become a science vessel captain or merchandise or military or other.

Recruite differenent npc crew and train them, this alone should keep you busy for a whole day or maybe more. Exploration should be a never ending factor in this game. Sounds very similar in concept to EVE Online game except EVE Online is a solo flyer in a multiple society environment.

I think its workable. If you were expecting to start an ensign in the ST Academy and work your way up the ladder, this system would be a very costly development - its hard to implement, not to mention the problem of getting buddies to play at the same time every single time??? Half the time you can end up with a non-functional ship

[Fvillha]

The NPC idea reminds me of Guild Wars where you can pick up 1 to 4 or 5 henchmen to tag along to form a group with enough skills between em to do a mission (though you can't control their actions, which sort of sux), and you still had the option to just buddy up with you're guild/clan mates as normal. I can see the plus of having NPC/henchmen for gamers not in a Fleet, hope there's enough class elements to make us all pleased.

[ianobs]

is a rank or species all of a sudden not a type of class?

[mikester101]

The NPC idea reminds me of Guild Wars where you can pick up 1 to 4 or 5 henchmen to tag along to form a group with enough skills between em to do a mission (though you can't control their actions, which sort of sux), and you still had the option to just buddy up with you're guild/clan mates as normal. I can see the plus of having NPC/henchmen for gamers not in a Fleet, hope there's enough class elements to make us all pleased.

u can still be any of the clasess that the henchmen were. hopefully the same goes for this game

[Cyjack]

Character abilities, ship types/ship abilities...Crew type/Crew abilities are NOT classes there CUSTOMIZATION, all mmos have customization, but can u be a doctor, scientist engineer, ect? From what i have been reading... no. City of heroes allowed you to be a healer, tanker, ect. Those ARE classes. o and i have freedom of speech were i live so i can repost a topic if i want to, unlike u i am not glued to this forum so i don't know EVERYTHING that has been posted


You have NO idea what youre talking about. You have NO idea what specializations will be availiable to characters in the game, essentially the same thing as being a "class" in another game. There are medical ships, science vessels, construction oriented ships present in the Lore. A captain could specialize in any of these things.


If a Player is piloting a "Tank" type ship (some ship with a large hull and heavy shields), and has the abilities to exploit it, he is a tank. A player with Science and computer focused abilities might be a control oriented class.


Is it just that you need a label?


Calm down and just breathe for a while.

[mikester101]

is a rank or species all of a sudden not a type of class?

ummm no.. Rank is like combat level 1-90, species is like race and that’s just for show nothing rly comes out of that... class is what u can do with ur character profession wise

[mikester101]

You have NO idea what youre talking about. You have NO idea what specializations will be availiable to characters in the game, essentially the same thing as being a "class" in another game. There are medical ships, science vessels, construction oriented ships present in the Lore. A captain could specialize in any of these things.


If a Player is piloting a "Tank" type ship (some ship with a large hull and heavy shields), and has the abilities to exploit it, he is a tank.


Calm down and just breathe for a while.

rly?? i don't know what i am talking about?? were does it say u can work in a medical, science or construction ship? because no STO developer has said that..

[Fvillha]

You have NO idea what youre talking about. You have NO idea what specializations will be availiable to characters in the game, essentially the same thing as being a "class" in another game. There are medical ships, science vessels, construction oriented ships present in the Lore. A captain could specialize in any of these things.


If a Player is piloting a "Tank" type ship (some ship with a large hull and heavy shields), and has the abilities to exploit it, he is a tank.


Calm down and just breathe for a while.

True, and if theirs any kind of point system for improving skills or ways to train for skills/abilities then the idea of character class remains for exploring when not on your ship.

[Cyjack]

rly?? i don't know what i am talking about?? were does it say u can work in a medical, science or construction ship? because no STO developer has said that..

No one has yet, which is why I said you have no idea what will be in the game along those lines. Nobody knows at this point, but sheer common sense says things like that will be there, along with broad range of skills and abilities.

Here...just breathe into this paper bag...

[mikester101]

It doesnt, I said you have no idea what will be in the game along those lines. Nobody knows at this point, but sheer common sense says things like that will be there, along with broad range of skills and abilities.

Here...just breathe into this paper bag...

i hope so, but as of now i find it very "weird" that they have said nothing about classes when thats like the thing thats being talked about most on this forum

[ianobs]

ummm no.. Rank is like combat level 1-90, species is like race and that’s just for show nothing rly comes out of that... class is what u can do with ur character profession wise


ok so some little feringi is going to be a tank character with the same abilities as a klingon and can go toe to toe with any other character. no but a species is going to have abilities that others don't have. thus... ahhh a different CLASS

[JSM3050]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(Try telling that to CCP. They might have a few guys in the Accounting Department that would disagree.

[mikester101]

ok so some little feringi is going to be a tank character with the same abilities as a klingon and can go toe to toe with any other character. no but a species is going to have abilities that others don't have. thus... ahhh a different CLASS

Maybe in the future of video games we will see that, but as of now that doesn’t exist. In city of heroes, u can make a huge tank guy that looks like the hulk, and battle him against a tiny tank woman, and it would be an even match (considering there the same lvl too) its JUST your character's appearance, it doesn’t affect anything

[mikester101]

Try telling that to CCP. They might have a few guys in the Accounting Department that would disagree.

for every argument there is always someone who disagrees

[Fvillha]

Cyjack, your comment about the ship being an extension of your character does bring up a good point, do you play a big, bulky ship loaded with weapons(tank); stealthy with cloak to scout or stab from behind (oops this isn't a fantasy mmo); or a fast ship with lots of shields to hit em before they hit you will had some food for though when forming up fleets.

I am guessing folks that play Eve or other sci-fi MMOs could elaborate.

[Fvillha]

Maybe in the future of video games we will see that, but as of now that doesn’t exist. In city of heroes, u can make a huge tank guy that looks like the hulk, and battle him against a tiny tank woman, and it would be an even match (considering there the same lvl too) its JUST your character's appearance, it doesn’t affect anything


I hope theres some racial trait pluses for the core trek species, but I can see where that complicates things, rather than keep has COH keeps the basic characters even at 1st lvl to matter what they look like. A first level fist/fireball/phaser fire ends up with almost the same damage pending the targets resistance/defense/buffs.

[mikester101]

I hope theres some racial trait pluses for the core trek species, but I can see where that complicates things, rather than keep has COH keeps the basic characters even at 1st lvl to matter what they look like. A first level fist/fireball/phaser fire ends up with almost the same damage pending the targets resistance/defense/buffs.

exactly :)

[ianobs]

Maybe in the future of video games we will see that, but as of now that doesn’t exist. In city of heroes, u can make a huge tank guy that looks like the hulk, and battle him against a tiny tank woman, and it would be an even match (considering there the same lvl too) its JUST your character's appearance, it doesn’t affect anything


if you look as swg as an example each race had some sort of different abilities and each race for sure had different stats.

i never played city of heros but from my understanding it wasnt anything like STO is claiming to be an expansive universe with a multitude of planets and space to explore etc.

look i'm not trying to get into some battle of whits here i'm just saying that your claim of failure is with out basis on the fact that the interview with the AP is short, and by no means what so ever with out a doubt a complete sumation of the game

[mikester101]

if you look as swg as an example each race had some sort of different abilities and each race for sure had different stats.

i never played city of heros but from my understanding it wasnt anything like STO is claiming to be an expansive universe with a multitude of planets and space to explore etc.

look i'm not trying to get into some battle of whits here i'm just saying that your claim of failure is with out basis on the fact that the interview with the AP is short, and by no means what so ever with out a doubt a complete sumation of the game

very true, i think its best to wait it out. but if they confirm that there are no clasess i am going to "bump" this post and then layout all the facts of why this game would fail as an MMO, i am still hopefull though

PS: SWG race benifits ended with NGE, and SWG is an exmple of what will happen if u limit what class you can be and have the option to be captian from the start (same with jedi) it was a disaster

[Cyjack]

Cyjack, your comment about the ship being an extension of your character does bring up a good point, do you play a big, bulky ship loaded with weapons(tank); stealthy with cloak to scout or stab from behind (oops this isn't a fantasy mmo); or a fast ship with lots of shields to hit em before they hit you will had some food for though when forming up fleets.

I am guessing folks that play Eve or other sci-fi MMOs could elaborate.


Well, its not only that, but the way your own character abilities and specializations play into it, the type of crew you choose, and they way you choose to train them, , and the way you customize your ship, will all make you suited for different roles in the game, which is the function "classes" serve in other games that dont give you as much freedom.


Secondly, frankly, I WISH we were so lucky as to have no classes and an A la carte skill system...but I think this is wishful thinking, simply because that becomes impossible to balance.

But even in Champions Online, where characters have no real "classes" and can choose from any power or ability, there are still going to be systems in place to encourage development along a number of pre balanced lines, with a wide latitude for flavor.

Skill trees, maybe skill pre reqs, archetypes that give a bonus to certain types of skills, etc. Of course there will be similar things in STO, because you couldnt balance the game otherwise. There WILL be classes, and a variety of roles to play...just maybe not in name....but then again, maybe also in name.

We simply just dont know enough yet, but common sense will get you a long way.

[mikester101]

Well, its not only that, but the way your own character abilities and specializations play into it, the type of crew you choose, and they way you choose to train them, , and the way you customize your ship, will all make you suited for different roles in the game, which is the function "classes" serve in other games that dont give you as much freedom.


Secondly, frankly, I WISH we were so lucky as to have no classes and an A la carte skill system...but I think this is wishful thinking, simply because that becomes impossible to balance.

But even in Champions Online, where characters have no real "classes" and can choose from any power or ability, there are still going to be systems in place to encourage development along a number of pre balanced lines, with a wide latitude for flavor.

Skill trees, maybe skill pre reqs, archetypes that give a bonus to certain types of skills, etc. Of course there will be similar things in STO, because you couldnt balance the game otherwise. There WILL be classes, and a variety of roles to play...just maybe not in name....but maybe so.

We simply just dont know enough yet, but common sense will get you a long way.

i personally liked what perpetual was doing, they were going to make it hard to become captain, and give u the option to be whatever u wanted to be on the ship

[ChiefBrex]

mikster - how about we wait for the gameplay footage first, and see what they've come up with.

If it is anything like what Jack Emmert said, then, Cryptic may end up being told to market it as another single player game, rather than an MMO. I, for one, would be extremely PO'd by such limited options. Especially since I am personally sick and tired of Star Trek games where you control a ship, or a fleet of ships. There are so many aspects of the Star Trek universe that have never been explored in a Star Trek game. Like Away Missions for example. The only games that really touched on this was the Elite Force games. But as a result, there was little to no starship combat. And there was very limited interactions with the crew...actually, there was none if it wasn't part of the story.

So, honestly, I personally would hope this game gives us the options of ranks, and serving as officers aboard ships, and letting us decide if we want to captain a ship, or if we want to stay an officer of our field, etc. But, let's wait til after the footage?

[ianobs]

i quit before nge and never looked back. except in discust. but race did have benefits although seemingly small.

eg wookies made bad doctors


for the record i realy hate using swg as an example of an mmo it realy ended up being a disgrace

[mikester101]

mikster - how about we wait for the gameplay footage first, and see what they've come up with.

If it is anything like what Jack Emmert said, then, Cryptic may end up being told to market it as another single player game, rather than an MMO. I, for one, would be extremely PO'd by such limited options. Especially since I am personally sick and tired of Star Trek games where you control a ship, or a fleet of ships. There are so many aspects of the Star Trek universe that have never been explored in a Star Trek game. Like Away Missions for example. The only games that really touched on this was the Elite Force games. But as a result, there was little to no starship combat. And there was very limited interactions with the crew...actually, there was none if it wasn't part of the story.

So, honestly, I personally would hope this game gives us the options of ranks, and serving as officers aboard ships, and letting us decide if we want to captain a ship, or if we want to stay an officer of our field, etc. But, let's wait til after the footage?

i wish they would make an elite force 3, wouldn't that be great? :)

[mikester101]

i quit before nge and never looked back. except in discust. but race did have benefits although seemingly small.

eg wookies made bad doctors


for the record i realy hate using swg as an example of an mmo it realy ended up being a disgrace

that it did.. i left as well. but not before NGE i actually stayed to see the game fall a part :(

[TheMasterpiece]

Character abilities, ship types/ship abilities...Crew type/Crew abilities are NOT classes there CUSTOMIZATION, all mmos have customization, but can u be a doctor, scientist engineer, ect? From what i have been reading... no. City of heroes allowed you to be a healer, tanker, ect. Those ARE classes. o and i have freedom of speech were i live so i can repost a topic if i want to, unlike u i am not glued to this forum so i don't know EVERYTHING that has been posted




Freedom of speech is not a universal right. It doesnt apply to forums, and there are rules, so please learn then and stop embarrassing yourself

[Cyjack]

i personally liked what perpetual was doing, they were going to make it hard to become captain, and give u the option to be whatever u wanted to be on the ship

It's fairly clear now that PE:STO was smoke and mirrors. They weren't going to *give* you anything.


In any event, this is the design for the game. Its not going to change. I think its for the better, but opinions vary. You have three options:

1) Know what the game is now, and be thankful you don't have to waste any more time with it, and get on with your life.

2) Stick around and see what happens, with the VAST number of things about the game you dont know or understand yet, and see if it might be fun, despite a game that you can imagine in your head that you think could have been.

3)Stick around and spew bile and derision on everything you can out of frustration in your inability to change it, until you finally get so sick of it you leave anyway, after being miserable for weeks or months.


Its up to you which one you think will make you the most happy in the long run.

[ianobs]

long before the nge even the before the combat "upgrade" it was like rats leaving a sinking ship. like i said before they saw a shiny red ball and went to wow and others. i didnt want to leave cuz i had too much time and money invested into the game and i wanted to leave on a good note but they just never stoped changing the game and that what i think kills games more than anything. expantions is one thing but essentialy making a new game every year is just rediculus.

if sto can get a good groove in the get go with or without an offical class system it will last a few years or until something better comes along. a groove isn't neccicarly a bad thing as long as its boldly going where no man has gone before. and come on a star trek mmo thats just awsome.



p.s. sorry for the bad spelling, i've said it before and i'll say it again.
Bad speelers of teh world untie!!!11!

[mikester101]

Freedom of speech is not a universal right. It doesnt apply to forums, and there are rules, so please learn then and stop embarrassing yourself

umm everyone has freedom of speech on the forum, someone from china can post here and say that they are going to destroy their government, and they wouldn’t get shot cause no one knows who the original poster is... and the only rule i might of tinkered with in this post is the political rule, cause I was talking about freedom of speech, but apparently u don't know the rules either considering ur talking politics now too.. Why don't you do me a favor and exit this forum so u won't embarrass yourself

[mikester101]

It's fairly clear now that PE:STO was smoke and mirrors. They weren't going to *give* you anything.


In any event, this is the design for the game. Its not going to change. I think its for the better, but opinions vary. You have three options:

1) Know what the game is now, and be thankful you don't have to waste any more time with it, and get on with your life.

2) Stick around and see what happens, with the VAST number of things about the game you dont know or understand yet, and see if it might be fun, despite a game that you can imagine in your head that you think could have been.

3)Stick around and spew bile and derision on everything you can out of frustration in your inability to change it, until you finally get so sick of it you leave anyway, after being miserable for weeks or months.


Its up to you which one you think will make you the most happy in the long run.

i like opinion 2 :)

[TheMasterpiece]

umm everyone has freedom of speech on the forum, someone from china can post here and say that they are going to destroy their government, and they wouldn’t get shot cause no one knows who the original poster is... and the only rule i might of tinkered with in this post is the political rule, cause I was talking about freedom of speech, but apparently u don't know the rules either considering ur talking politics now too.. Why don't you do me a favor and exit this forum so u won't embarrass yourself




where in the user agreement does it say a user can say anything, forum moderators and administrators decide what can be said, not you. And considering im a political science minor yes i do know politics. thats not the issue, what the issue is, according to you, is the constitution. And the law, NOT RULE, your mentioning, restricts the federal government of the USA from stopping the actions of free speech of US citizens. it has nothign to do with any privite enterprise or entity. Your ignorance is astonishing

[ianobs]

another thought that just poped up is that the person behind the avitar. game skills differ quite a bit from person to person. there are some pretty terrible gamers out there and then there are players that have been playing video games sense pong. i wonder how much strategy there is going to be.

[ChiefBrex]

where in the user agreement does it say a user can say anything, forum moderators and administrators decide what can be said, not you. And considering im a political science minor yes i do know politics. thats not the issue, what the issue is, according to you, is the constitution. And the law, NOT RULE, your mentioning, restricts the federal government of the USA from stopping the actions of free speech of US citizens. it has nothign to do with any privite enterprise or entity. Your ignorance is astonishing

How about staying on topic, and let the moderators and administrators of these forums do their jobs themselves? If I'm not mistaken, it's usually common courtesy (and even a rule on some boards) to refrain from telling someone what to do on a board, or suggesting what a mod/admin would do, etc. So, how about posting your opinion on the topic the OP posted. If you posted it on another, similar thread, then say so, and leave it at that. No point harrassing someone, and in the end, getting yourself into trouble.

[mikester101]

where in the user agreement does it say a user can say anything, forum moderators and administrators decide what can be said, not you. And considering im a political science minor yes i do know politics. thats not the issue, what the issue is, according to you, is the constitution. And the law, NOT RULE, your mentioning, restricts the federal government of the USA from stopping the actions of free speech of US citizens. it has nothign to do with any privite enterprise or entity. Your ignorance is astonishing

first off let me start by saying that i am still in high school (private prep, and doing well enough to get accepted to a reputable university) secondly no one decides what i can say, any common joe knows that.. i can post if i wanted too somthing completly against the forum rules, and still get a good number of people to see the post, before it gets deleted

[mikester101]

another thought that just poped up is that the person behind the avitar. game skills differ quite a bit from person to person. there are some pretty terrible gamers out there and then there are players that have been playing video games sense pong. i wonder how much strategy there is going to be.

well i know there is diplomacy, that can get complicated enough

[mikester101]

How about staying on topic, and let the moderators and administrators of these forums do their jobs themselves? If I'm not mistaken, it's usually common courtesy (and even a rule on some boards) to refrain from telling someone what to do on a board, or suggesting what a mod/admin would do, etc. So, how about posting your opinion on the topic the OP posted. If you posted it on another, similar thread, then say so, and leave it at that. No point harrassing someone, and in the end, getting yourself into trouble.

he is a hypocrite ;)

[ianobs]

How about staying on topic, and let the moderators and administrators of these forums do their jobs themselves? If I'm not mistaken, it's usually common courtesy (and even a rule on some boards) to refrain from telling someone what to do on a board, or suggesting what a mod/admin would do, etc. So, how about posting your opinion on the topic the OP posted. If you posted it on another, similar thread, then say so, and leave it at that. No point harrassing someone, and in the end, getting yourself into trouble.

agreed. most of us don't know anyone here personaly or even in passing and the game hasn't even started yet. no need to insult. not yet anyway.

[Mattastic]

The only explaination I can think of is that the only way Cryptic can support soloing or small groups is to give everyone their own command by default (and by 'captain', he means the role, not the rank). However, I'm still sure that larger ships will run a lot better with a human crew, so it will probably be possible and even preferable for players to give up their commands during missions while aboard another player's ship. Due to the obvious complications of keeping an entire crew online at the same time every gaming session, it will also be easier that way if two or three members of your guild or fleet log on, and there are no senior officers available to captain your shiniest fleet ship.

Also, there won't be many experienced players on launch (none, in fact), so someone's got to command a vessel.

[ianobs]

The only explaination I can think of is that the only way Cryptic can support soloing or small groups is to give everyone their own command by default (and by 'captain', he means the role, not the rank). However, I'm still sure that larger ships will run a lot better with a human crew, so it will probably be possible and even preferable for players to give up their commands during missions while aboard another player's ship. Due to the obvious complications of keeping an entire crew online at the same time every gaming session, it will also be easier that way if two or three members of your guild or fleet log on, and there are no senior officers available to captain your shiniest fleet ship.

Also, there won't be many experienced players on launch (none, in fact), so someone's got to command a vessel.

thats a good point. it has to start someplace even if its a personal shuttlecraft of some sort

[TheMasterpiece]

In my theory I had proposed an NPC captain for ensigns graduating from starfleet acadmey. that takes care of the "no commanders" siotuation

[mikester101]

Off to bed its 3:30 am were I live. Good discussion though defiantly changed my mind about the game; I’ll give it another shot, wait and see if i like it :)

[TheMasterpiece]

Off to bed its 3:30 am were I live. Good discussion though defiantly changed my mind about the game; I’ll give it another shot, wait and see if i like it :)




I suppose Ill do the same. I see no reason I cant wait til sunday to make a decision

[lumpking69]

Well maybe you gotta unlock the classes or they will come with a later update guys. I'm still not 100% convinced that we will just be captains. It would be silly for it to just be captains. It would be bridge commander with a face lift and monthly fee. There is no way cryptic would put out a game like that.

I'm choose to believe that we don't have the full scoop yet and aren't aware of future plans. If at first it is going to be "Super Bridge Commander" ill still play and give it a shot IF there is hope for great updates. But if that's the jist of the game.... meh, ill wait till later before I start to cry "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !"

[TheMasterpiece]

Well maybe you gotta unlock the classes or they will come with a later update guys. I'm still not 100% convinced that we will just be captains. It would be silly for it to just be captains. It would be bridge commander with a face lift and monthly fee. There is no way cryptic would put out a game like that.

I'm choose to believe that we don't have the full scoop yet and aren't aware of future plans. If at first it is going to be "Super Bridge Commander" ill still play and give it a shot IF there is hope for great updates. But if that's the jist of the game.... meh, ill wait till later before I start to cry "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !"



Well they said you start off as a captain. and no one goes backwards so....yea.....captain, 1 player per ship.

Everything I had said i wanted is missing. :D Looks like Ill keep my $15 a month

[ianobs]

hmm 1:40 here

[lumpking69]

Well they said you start off as a captain. and no one goes backwards so....yea.....captain, 1 player per ship.

Everything I had said i wanted is missing. :D Looks like Ill keep my $15 a month

well, you will start off as a captain for now. But who knows what changes will be made later.

[TheMasterpiece]

well, you will start off as a captain for now. But who knows what changes will be made later.



I see where your coming from but if they add all that later what about all the work from the first few months then?


Im reserving judgement until I see more, but unless I see classes and ranks, I cant justify spending so much $$ on something that doesnt offer the best experience

[lumpking69]

I see where your coming from but if they add all that later what about all the work from the first few months then?


Im reserving judgement until I see more, but unless I see classes and ranks, I cant justify spending so much $$ on something that doesnt offer the best experience

Well maybe if you want to be captain, you'll just have to choose the command profession and put on a red shirt. But if you want to play another class you might not get up to the same place as a captain. I mean, if your a medic do you really want to be a captain also?

I don't see a problem introducing new classes with the current one.

[Jaxston]

I would imagine no classes is a good thing ......could mean skill trees which allows for a much more diverse population.

:D

[Boone]

You don't need classes.

In fact it would be a lot better not to have classes I think. EVE Online doesn't use a class system and it does fine.

It increases variety of characters if they can pick and choose the skills they want.

[Crazyfist]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

Looks like the game will suck for the ppl that like to think and try instead of get everything handed on a plate.

[Lt.Renak]

Of course you are a Captain, but also you will have a job I think and that's the pendant to what in other MMOs is called classes in my opinion.

[Crazyfist]

Still isnt very Trek.

[Hyperion2206]

I hope he meant that you'll own a shuttle from the beginning when he said you'll be a Captain from day 1. But if I can only be a Captain and not a Security Officer or a Doctor climbing the ranks I'm not going to buy that game, that's for sure.:eek:

[CptRanger]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

mikester101 by all means please link to where he said this.

The worst problem facing this game is all the people who take what is said by a dev out of context and then goes off rambling about how the sky is falling.

[0o0dead0o0]

we should start at ensign, i'd rather be not be in command. the sounded much better before but i gotta think possitve:)

i'd rather be a medical office or doctor, than bridge staff.

[InterArmaEnimSilentLeges]

mikester101 by all means please link to where he said this.

The worst problem facing this game is all the people who take what is said by a dev out of context and then goes off rambling about how the sky is falling.

Agreed. I think that Jack Emmert just talked about being a Captain because it is a huge selling point. Put yourself in a developers shoes. Heck, read the forums. There are enough posts about who wants to captain what ship. I believe there is only a small minority that actually does not want to be a CPT. I also agree that there should be no classes. You pick an overall job ie Command, Science, Security, or Engineering and from there you pick a specialization through points.

[walkingshark]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(


Um, lol? I think Jack Emmert knows a bit about making fun MMO games. Until the great dev freakout in the pvp patch where they nerfed all my characters simultaneously I enjoyed the hell out of city off heroes.

I trust him and Cryptic way more than I trusted perpetual.

[ChiefBrex]

Like I said yesterday, we should wait til tomorrow's demonstration footage.

But to be honest, if they don't do ranks (I refuse to call them classes, since this is supposed to be a Trek universe based game), then it isn't true Star Trek. And what's the point of picking a field (engineering, science, etc) if you start off as a captain anyway. What happened to the idea that there would be starships acting as hubs, and people interacting there, and serving as crew, etc. That was one of the few things I liked about PE's development of the game. I'd like to hope that Cryptic keeps that.

But I'm waiting til after tomorrow's demonstration, before my final decision about this game.

[mikester101]

Like I said yesterday, we should wait til tomorrow's demonstration footage.

But to be honest, if they don't do ranks (I refuse to call them classes, since this is supposed to be a Trek universe based game), then it isn't true Star Trek. And what's the point of picking a field (engineering, science, etc) if you start off as a captain anyway. What happened to the idea that there would be starships acting as hubs, and people interacting there, and serving as crew, etc. That was one of the few things I liked about PE's development of the game. I'd like to hope that Cryptic keeps that.

But I'm waiting til after tomorrow's demonstration, before my final decision about this game.

that concept is exactly wat i hoped this game was going to be, and thats how perpetual was going to make it...

[naynayz]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

This is all I will say to those that think that just because everyone will be a captain the game will fail. Bridge Commander was many people's favorite ST game and there is a reason why even now it is still being played: PEOPLE WANT THEIR OWN SHIP. Because they don't want their characters life to ALWAYS be dependant on the incompetance of a stranger. BC was built around the premise that you were the captain and it was arguably the best Star trek game put out followed by SFC3. They are doing exactly what I want and what perpetual refused to do so they lost their customers interest. The casual gamer is the key to the success of any game, not hardcore people that devote their lives to a game (not saying that is you) but I want to be in my own ship and go explore. I want the option of having people with me (in their own ships) so if some newb is ninja AFK-ing at the con, I can still have the option of warping away and keeping my ship alive. Can I get an AMEN? LOL

[STOZone]

Amen. I want this game to surround the story of me and my character. I don't want my success or failure based upon another player, I want to be ultimately responsible.

That being said, I hope the option of having player crews is still there, but never required.

[mikester101]

This is all I will say to those that think that just because everyone will be a captain the game will fail. Bridge Commander was many people's favorite ST game and there is a reason why even now it is still being played: PEOPLE WANT THEIR OWN SHIP. Because they don't want their characters life to ALWAYS be dependant on the incompetance of a stranger. BC was built around the premise that you were the captain and it was arguably the best Star trek game put out followed by SFC3. They are doing exactly what I want and what perpetual refused to do so they lost their customers interest. The casual gamer is the key to the success of any game, not hardcore people that devote their lives to a game (not saying that is you) but I want to be in my own ship and go explore. I want the option of having people with me (in their own ships) so if some newb is ninja AFK-ing at the con, I can still have the option of warping away and keeping my ship alive. Can I get an AMEN? LOL

bridge commander was a single player game, this is going to be an mmo with 1 billion captains flying their ship all around space. if this game was single player then it wold make more sense

[mikester101]

Amen. I want this game to surround the story of me and my character. I don't want my success or failure based upon another player, I want to be ultimately responsible.

That being said, I hope the option of having player crews is still there, but never required.

then why have an MMO at all??? MMOs are about teamwork, sure there will be human error, but even in the show people made mistakes

[naynayz]

Amen. I want this game to surround the story of me and my character. I don't want my success or failure based upon another player, I want to be ultimately responsible.

That being said, I hope the option of having player crews is still there, but never required.

Exactly my crews thought. I am also wondering if they do command as the first segments and then add an update later that allows you to play engineer or tactical officer etc. The point is the possibilities are endless at this point.

[naynayz]

then why have an MMO at all??? MMOs are about teamwork, sure there will be human error, but even in the show people made mistakes

Teamwork implies that everyone on an MMO always does what is best for the "team". And we all know how often that happens. Someone gets drunk on power of being guild leader or is just literally drunk and can't tell 6 from 1.No thanks, you aren't selling me on that crap. People in the show didn't make that many mistakes that often.

[mikester101]

Teamwork implies that everyone on an MMO always does what is best for the "team". And we all know how often that happens. Someone gets drunk on power of being guild leader or is just literally drunk and can't tell 6 from 1.No thanks, you aren't selling me on that crap.

if u give the player's the choice to serve under wat captain they want then that won't happen, same goes for a guild, lets say u join one, and find out the guild leader gets drunk on power, wat do u do? u leave and join a new one, all MMOs have their share of power drunken leaders

[ChiefBrex]

This is all I will say to those that think that just because everyone will be a captain the game will fail. Bridge Commander was many people's favorite ST game and there is a reason why even now it is still being played: PEOPLE WANT THEIR OWN SHIP. Because they don't want their characters life to ALWAYS be dependant on the incompetance of a stranger. BC was built around the premise that you were the captain and it was arguably the best Star trek game put out followed by SFC3. They are doing exactly what I want and what perpetual refused to do so they lost their customers interest. The casual gamer is the key to the success of any game, not hardcore people that devote their lives to a game (not saying that is you) but I want to be in my own ship and go explore. I want the option of having people with me (in their own ships) so if some newb is ninja AFK-ing at the con, I can still have the option of warping away and keeping my ship alive. Can I get an AMEN? LOL

But *I* don't want to start out as a captain. I want to play a true MMO. I don't want another Star Trek game like Bridge Commander. Nearly every single Star Trek game ever made, with the exceptions of Star Trek: 25th Anniverary, Judgment Rites, and the Elite Force series, has the player controlling a ship, or a fleet of ships, or a battlegroup. It's time to change up the format of Star Trek games and head back into the direction that would combine the stuff of Bridge Commander and Elite Force 1 & 2, by creating a galaxy where I serve on a crew, earning my promotion points, deciding whether I want to say in my field of expertise or eventually switch to command. At some point, I'd like to see the establishment of a Starfleet Command where players can play admirals and their attaches and things.

And not everyone WANTS their own ship. In the "100 billion captains" thread, there are loads of people there that have made it clear that they don't want to be a captain ever, or don't want to start off as a captain, but rather earn the right to command a ship later on after gaining experience.

Perpetual lost their customer interests because of all their in-house financial problems and lack of regular progress updates. Furthermore, they went from taking opinions on forums, to just doing surveys of 20 to 60 people, and determining that THAT would be enough to represent the thousands of people that would've played STO. They didn't lose customer interest because they were following the examples of WoW and Final Fantasy by creating a virtual world of the Star Trek universe where you could explore the ship you serve on, and could choose a field to work in, and choose your skills etc. That was one of the few aspects of the PE development of STO that I liked.

And the purpose of these forums is to get to know each other. So, by the time the game launches, we'd hardly be "strangers". Furthermore, MMOs are intended as SOCIAL games, where you take the time to get to know people. Eventually, crews that come together would *learn* to work together. Your comment:

Because they don't want their characters life to ALWAYS be dependant on the incompetance of a stranger. - Basically with this you're alienating yourself from new players that would join the game after the initial launch. You're basically saying that you'd rather look out for #1, rather than passing on your experience, and helping improve a new player's performance, and generally improving the quality of gameplay of STO. And that's *not* what Star Trek is about, nor an MMO. If you want to have a game where you don't have to be dependent on others, then why not just stick to Bridge Commander and Legacy and SFC3, and let those of us that want a true Star Trek experience by having a fully immersive virtual world that would bring us as close to Star Trek as humanly possible in this day and age.

[naynayz]

if u give the player's the choice to serve under wat captain they want then that won't happen, same goes for a guild, lets say u join one, and find out the guild leader gets drunk on power, wat do u do? u leave and join a new one, all MMOs have their share of power drunken leaders

In my guild situation we have a core group of 6-8 already before joining and the guild was icing on the cake. We had fun for several years till they started putting restrictions on everything when the founder of the guild came back from a hiadas in RL. When our group left many people left with us and they have not recovered since and they are now no longer able to raid (which didn't make me cry much cause the way EQ2 raids go are incredibly frustrating without others helping me die on top of it all). My crew doesn't want the responsibility of handling or running a guild cause we already pretty much are on our own without getting a teamspeak or vent for everyone else. This game is going to be no different in my crews perspective. So maybe it is our perspectives on the matter. They need to cater MMO's more to groups of 3 to 6 but still allow raid types of instances too.

[mikester101]

But *I* don't want to start out as a captain. I want to play a true MMO. I don't want another Star Trek game like Bridge Commander. Nearly every single Star Trek game ever made, with the exceptions of Star Trek: 25th Anniverary, Judgment Rites, and the Elite Force series, has the player controlling a ship, or a fleet of ships, or a battlegroup. It's time to change up the format of Star Trek games and head back into the direction that would combine the stuff of Bridge Commander and Elite Force 1 & 2, by creating a galaxy where I serve on a crew, earning my promotion points, deciding whether I want to say in my field of expertise or eventually switch to command. At some point, I'd like to see the establishment of a Starfleet Command where players can play admirals and their attaches and things.

And not everyone WANTS their own ship. In the "100 billion captains" thread, there are loads of people there that have made it clear that they don't want to be a captain ever, or don't want to start off as a captain, but rather earn the right to command a ship later on after gaining experience.

Perpetual lost their customer interests because of all their in-house financial problems and lack of regular progress updates. Furthermore, they went from taking opinions on forums, to just doing surveys of 20 to 60 people, and determining that THAT would be enough to represent the thousands of people that would've played STO. They didn't lose customer interest because they were following the examples of WoW and Final Fantasy by creating a virtual world of the Star Trek universe where you could explore the ship you serve on, and could choose a field to work in, and choose your skills etc. That was one of the few aspects of the PE development of STO that I liked.

And the purpose of these forums is to get to know each other. So, by the time the game launches, we'd hardly be "strangers". Furthermore, MMOs are intended as SOCIAL games, where you take the time to get to know people. Eventually, crews that come together would *learn* to work together. Your comment:

- Basically with this you're alienating yourself from new players that would join the game after the initial launch. You're basically saying that you'd rather look out for #1, rather than passing on your experience, and helping improve a new player's performance, and generally improving the quality of gameplay of STO. And that's *not* what Star Trek is about, nor an MMO. If you want to have a game where you don't have to be dependent on others, then why not just stick to Bridge Commander and Legacy and SFC3, and let those of us that want a true Star Trek experience by having a fully immersive virtual world that would bring us as close to Star Trek as humanly possible in this day and age.


couldn't of worded it any better myself

[mikester101]

In my guild situation we have a core group of 6-8 already before joining and the guild was icing on the cake. We had fun for several years till they started putting restrictions on everything when the founder of the guild came back from a hiadas in RL. When our group left many people left with us and they have not recovered since and they are now no longer able to raid (which didn't make me cry much cause the way EQ2 raids go are incredibly frustrating without others helping me die on top of it all). My crew doesn't want the responsibility of handling or running a guild cause we already pretty much are on our own without getting a teamspeak or vent for everyone else. This game is going to be no different in my crews perspective. So maybe it is our perspectives on the matter. They need to cater MMO's more to groups of 3 to 6 but still allow raid types of instances too.

How about have mainly an NPC crew and have the whole senior staff real people, like a chief medical officer, chief engineer, chief of security, 1st officer, and 2nd officer. That can limit the crew/guild size to around 5-6

[naynayz]

But *I* don't want to start out as a captain. I want to play a true MMO. I don't want another Star Trek game like Bridge Commander. Nearly every single Star Trek game ever made, with the exceptions of Star Trek: 25th Anniverary, Judgment Rites, and the Elite Force series, has the player controlling a ship, or a fleet of ships, or a battlegroup. It's time to change up the format of Star Trek games and head back into the direction that would combine the stuff of Bridge Commander and Elite Force 1 & 2, by creating a galaxy where I serve on a crew, earning my promotion points, deciding whether I want to say in my field of expertise or eventually switch to command. At some point, I'd like to see the establishment of a Starfleet Command where players can play admirals and their attaches and things.

And not everyone WANTS their own ship. In the "100 billion captains" thread, there are loads of people there that have made it clear that they don't want to be a captain ever, or don't want to start off as a captain, but rather earn the right to command a ship later on after gaining experience.

Perpetual lost their customer interests because of all their in-house financial problems and lack of regular progress updates. Furthermore, they went from taking opinions on forums, to just doing surveys of 20 to 60 people, and determining that THAT would be enough to represent the thousands of people that would've played STO. They didn't lose customer interest because they were following the examples of WoW and Final Fantasy by creating a virtual world of the Star Trek universe where you could explore the ship you serve on, and could choose a field to work in, and choose your skills etc. That was one of the few aspects of the PE development of STO that I liked.

And the purpose of these forums is to get to know each other. So, by the time the game launches, we'd hardly be "strangers". Furthermore, MMOs are intended as SOCIAL games, where you take the time to get to know people. Eventually, crews that come together would *learn* to work together. Your comment:

- Basically with this you're alienating yourself from new players that would join the game after the initial launch. You're basically saying that you'd rather look out for #1, rather than passing on your experience, and helping improve a new player's performance, and generally improving the quality of gameplay of STO. And that's *not* what Star Trek is about, nor an MMO. If you want to have a game where you don't have to be dependent on others, then why not just stick to Bridge Commander and Legacy and SFC3, and let those of us that want a true Star Trek experience by having a fully immersive virtual world that would bring us as close to Star Trek as humanly possible in this day and age.


I am glad you brought this up. I also like the idea of going through the ranks and choosing a profession. I am fine with that too. I also really enjoy teaching others if they are willing to learn. Don't be drunk or tired is one of the first things I recommend since my fiance is photosensitive and needs frequent breaks but still plans to play this till his eyes pop out LOL. There has never been a question for me that command is where I wanted to go but I would love to have an engineer and a tactical officer too. TBH I would prefer to have the option of both but so far I hear captain.

[naynayz]

How about have mainly an NPC crew and have the whole senior staff real people, like a chief medical officer, chief engineer, chief of security, 1st officer, and 2nd officer. That can limit the crew/guild size to around 5-6

I like that idea too.

[Recollection]

Future of STO?
http://www.modcraft.net/community/index.php?showtopic=13067&st=0

[ChiefBrex]

naynayz - then you need to read the article about Trek Online at TrekMovie.com. They've got some, albeit blurry, images that show characters in a TNG-style uniform. It looks like that Cryptic is going with ideas similar to Perpetual's, but clearly putting their own touch on it all.

[naynayz]

naynayz - then you need to read the article about Trek Online at TrekMovie.com. They've got some, albeit blurry, images that show characters in a TNG-style uniform. It looks like that Cryptic is going with ideas similar to Perpetual's, but clearly putting their own touch on it all.

Hadn't seen that yet thanks!

[Wallabees]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

Excellent work, you really should post more.

[mikester101]

I am glad you brought this up. I also like the idea of going through the ranks and choosing a profession. I am fine with that too. I also really enjoy teaching others if they are willing to learn. Don't be drunk or tired is one of the first things I recommend since my fiance is photosensitive and needs frequent breaks but still plans to play this till his eyes pop out LOL. There has never been a question for me that command is where I wanted to go but I would love to have an engineer and a tactical officer too. TBH I would prefer to have the option of both but so far I hear captain.

it could be fun i suppose, i mean i had a whole lot of fun with elite force 1&2, i suppose its the same concept as that just that u can be captain instead of a Lt.

[naynayz]

Excellent work, you really should post more.

But Jack also said that a method of progression in the game is rank. Obviously we aren't seeing the full picture yet. Good discussion though.

[Itharius]

personally i think perpetual was doing a much better job...
all perpetual managed to accomplish was perpetually dragging out pre-alpha until they had to sell out to Cryptic.

[TheMasterpiece]

Like I said yesterday, we should wait til tomorrow's demonstration footage.

But to be honest, if they don't do ranks (I refuse to call them classes, since this is supposed to be a Trek universe based game), then it isn't true Star Trek. And what's the point of picking a field (engineering, science, etc) if you start off as a captain anyway. What happened to the idea that there would be starships acting as hubs, and people interacting there, and serving as crew, etc. That was one of the few things I liked about PE's development of the game. I'd like to hope that Cryptic keeps that.

But I'm waiting til after tomorrow's demonstration, before my final decision about this game.




That was perpetuals design and though I didnt keep up with STO on a day to day basis as I do now, that concept sounded great and just like what youd expect from a ST mmo. Honestly, being on starbases and bigger ships with other players, and picking a class and ranking from the bottom sounded JUST like what i want.

Instead it looks like were gettin a glorified bridge commander II

[Recollection]

Future of STO?
http://www.modcraft.net/community/index.php?showtopic=13067&st=0

Anyone know???????????

[mikester101]

That was perpetuals design and though I didnt keep up with STO on a day to day basis as I do now, that concept sounded great and just like what youd expect from a ST mmo. Honestly, being on starbases and bigger ships with other players, and picking a class and ranking from the bottom sounded JUST like what i want.

Instead it looks like were gettin a glorified bridge commander II

so tired of these ship command simulators...

[mikester101]

Anyone know???????????

we need to have an account on that forum to view, wat are those pics though? are they real STO pics?

[Recollection]

why not make a fast account and check it out..................

[mikester101]

why not make a fast account and check it out..................

hmmm kk, i'll check it out

[mikester101]

Anyone know???????????

I WISH! it looks awesome, but they allready confirmed that u start off as captian, so there can't be a ranking system. plus there is allready an image of the soverign class on CNN and their warp engines have changed (since its more into the future) and character sheet 03-A's character apperance is from perpetual's old conecpt art

here is the link to the new soverign class:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/TECH/ptech/08/08/star.trek.online.ap/art.startrek.ap.jpg

[Recollection]

I WISH! it looks awesome, but they allready confirmed that u start off as captian, so there can't be a ranking system. plus there is allready an image of the soverign class on CNN and their warp engines have changed (since its more into the future) and character sheet 03-A's character apperance is from perpetual's old conecpt art

here is the link to the new soverign class:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/TECH/ptech/08/08/star.trek.online.ap/art.startrek.ap.jpg

you do know that each ship got a diffrent warp engine right?

[mikester101]

you do know that each ship got a diffrent warp engine right?

ya i do, but there not going to make two different soverign classes with different warp engines, thats never been done in the history of star trek, and wat accounts for the ranking system and the perpetual conecpt art image that was used

[TheMasterpiece]

you do know that each ship got a diffrent warp engine right?

the warp engines are simply upgraded to make use of new technology, possibly even slipstream tech

[Deadzone]

Cyjack, your comment about the ship being an extension of your character does bring up a good point, do you play a big, bulky ship loaded with weapons(tank); stealthy with cloak to scout or stab from behind (oops this isn't a fantasy mmo); or a fast ship with lots of shields to hit em before they hit you will had some food for though when forming up fleets.

I am guessing folks that play Eve or other sci-fi MMOs could elaborate.


Eve player here- 6 years. So they have stated everyone will be a captain. Ok. THis concept is not different than how EVE works. You are the capt. of your ship. What makes ships/pilots different are the skills that they have learned.

For example; you have science based skills(targeting, tracking etc), you have industry based skills( manufacturing, invention etc), you have combat skills(railgun/lasers/missles, weapon tracking..etc), you have piloting skills(ship agility,speed,hit points, etc..) and a ****** SLEW of other skills, 178 i think in all.

So.....you can be a jack-of-all-trades type pilot, having some ship skills, piloting skills, weapons skills, etc etc...btw, there are base skills for everything you do that people train as they as pretty much needed for life in EVE.... or you can specialize. Meanign you can focus on a smaller set of skill but be better than most in that area. Training up all the gunnery skills, mastering science or probing( probing out ships, spacial phenomenon, etc), whatever.

The point is, here in STO I guess you can train your captain to either be some-of-everything or you will be able to specialize....train in a lot of science skills if you are going to fly a science ship. But you'll also need to train up away party skills for planetary landings/exploration and you will need to train up some combat skills since you don't want to be caught with your shields down in orbit...etc etc.

So I guess you could really be one person ans still do it all. Its just going to take time. Thats how it works in EVE. Hell, i've been playing it for 6 years. I can do everything but only some of the things VERY well, meaning I have spent the months(literally) training the very high skills to the max. I am very proficient in mostly everything but only a master of a few.

This is how you get a long life out of a MMO. That is why the EVE skill training system has worked so well for the game. The game was designed from the very beginning to not take 30 days and you have lvl 90 characters doing the very high-end stuff. It literally took years.

But STO-- who knows. They haven't told us anything about the skill system. They haven't told us how long they think it would take for people to reach the high-end stuff. I fear it will be like every other MMO out there and be .....how many times I can hit the phaser key to up your skill lvls...and then we will have high lvl peolpe flying around in battleships in 15 days or so.

This is where most MMOs have failed. A lot of low lvl game content but no high lvl content because they made it WAY too easy to lvl in the game. its way too lat enow I guess but as I have said, EVEs system works to counteract ANY power-lvling. But alas, I dont think thats how its going to work here and I fear for that.

***EDIT- Oh, forgot to put in that along with your skills you can add 'mods' to your ship to accompany your skills. IE, if you wanted, you can add speed mods to your ships, extra shields/armour/hull. You can add specialized mods that increase weapon dmg/range or increase your sensor strength/range.....as well as having a slew of ECM mods and ECCM, missles...probing mods, guns and just WAY too much to mention :D

Eah ship has a limited number of high, med, low slots to put all the stuff so you had to pick and choose what role you wanted your ship to play. Offence, defense, ECM boat, missle boat, prober, tackler( small fast ships to lock down bigger ships), etc etc....many MANY differnt ways to specialize your ships as well.

[Recollection]

there's no need to hear the EVE Online junk here, no one likes EVE cuz the skill training is bad as hell
simple as that, this is the STAR TREK ONLINE forums, not EVE Online

[Deadzone]

there's no need to hear the EVE Online junk here, no one likes EVE cuz the skill training is bad as hell
simple as that, this is the STAR TREK ONLINE forums, not EVE Online

LOL, online junk? EVE is just the most successful space-based MMO so far. SO you can keep your crap to yourself. Someone wanted to know how it worked and I told them, dont like it, dont read it.

The EVE devs made a game that set the BAR to any other spaced based MMO extremely high. Don't be getting all jealous on me now:rolleyes:

AND your comment on the skills and how everyone hates it is your oppinion not everyone elses. Ihave read the threads and its pretty split. I guess you'll be one of those power-lvlers that the time based skill training cuts off then? :cool:

[Dext]

That last post from Jack Emmert about STO seemed pretty clear to me that you can't be anything but captain, because that’s all he talked about...

If what I am saying is true, this game is going to fail… this is not the type of game that fits into the MMO genre, in order to have a successful mmo you need options, so that all the players are individuals, not a copy of everyone else. Its great single player game though… :(

We dont have full info so no one knows

[Dext]

LOL, online junk? EVE is just the most successful space-based MMO so far. SO you can keep your crap to yourself. Someone wanted to know how it worked and I told them, dont like it, dont read it.

The EVE devs made a game that set the BAR to any other spaced based MMO extremely high. Don't be getting all jealous on me now:rolleyes:

there is not a lot of space mmo Eve is the only one I know an SWG:JTLS Exe. I not a space mmo.

[Recollection]

LOL, online junk? EVE is just the most successful space-based MMO so far. SO you can keep your crap to yourself. Someone wanted to know how it worked and I told them, dont like it, dont read it.

The EVE devs made a game that set the BAR to any other spaced based MMO extremely high. Don't be getting all jealous on me now:rolleyes:

AND your comment on the skills and how everyone hates it is your oppinion not everyone elses. Ihave read the threads and its pretty split. I guess you'll be one of those power-lvlers that the time based skill training cuts off then? :cool:


actualy i have my own alliance with capital ships and a Leviathan, so don't think i'm a noob with EVE Online, only reason that i play EVE is cuz STO hasn't been released yet, and same goes for a huge amount of other EVE players

[Deadzone]

actualy i have my own alliance with capital ships and a Leviathan, so don't think i'm a noob with EVE Online, only reason that i play EVE is cuz STO hasn't been released yet, and same goes for a huge amount of other EVE players


STO was never GOING to be released until most people found out about it not long ago. EVE has been around even before STO was in development. So dont give me..'you're only playing EVE until STO comes out" you make yourself look and play the fool mate.

And you REALLY think STO is going to take a large population of EVE players out of the game>? You are more disillusioned than I even thought.
STO won't hold a mark to EVE if you want my humble oppinion. *Nothing against STO or the fans there-of* But you know as well as I that the game play features that "appear" to be comming into this game won't stand half as tall as does EVE.

And even though I am an EVE player, I'm not sitting here saying its better just because I play it. I call it how I see it, not caring how popular or unpopular that call might be. STO will not take many EVE players away from that game especially if there is very little to no PVP action and if the game-play or style just sucks.

EVE is one of a kind. Until another company actually wants to take the TIME to develop a game and LISTEN to its playerbase..and DO IT RIGHT( the biggest factor here) EVE will remain in the upper-echelons of any MMO out there.

If i remember right, with the statistics, EVE is in the top 7 MMOs for # of susbscriptions. WOW being number 1. Thats all that needs to be said.

[ChiefBrex]

If i remember right, with the statistics, EVE is in the top 7 MMOs for # of susbscriptions. WOW being number 1. Thats all that needs to be said.

Then let's hope Cryptic develops STO in similar fashion to WoW, which as I understand it, has a more immersive world than EVE Online. And that Wow shares a lot of the traits that people want to see in STO as an MMO. Not to mention that like WoW, STO comes from a pre-established universe with loads of content to build upon. EVE Online can't say that can it? And I'm really asking as I don't know the answer, since I don't play MMOs.

And while EVE's set up works well for EVE, it might not work so well for STO, especially considering how divided the forums are concerning nearly every aspect of the game they'd like to see.

But I agree with you that Cryptic needs to listen to its playerbase for STO. If they do, then we'll have a game that pleases *most* people.

[Recollection]

Is EVe in the yop 7 MMO's? maibe yes, though have you seen the online players there?
i just opend EVE starting page and see that 35.195 players are online.

So lets say that you where right, then it would mean that there are less then 35.195 Star Trek fans out there just waiting to join STO???????

give me a break, the Star Trek fans go beyond 1.000.000 people across the globe.

So do me a favor and don't try to score points for EVE

STO might not become the Nr1 MMO game of all time, though it wil be an new era in MMO gaming for shure

Star Trek changed the world ever since the first episodes came out, and wil continue to have an inpact on the world for as long as Star Trek wil exist in the mind and the hearths of all the Trek fans in the world.

And belive me, there is NOTHING you can say that wil change that fact:cool:

STAR TREK FANS FTW

[danubus]

Eve was a crummy game. Sorry, I know a lot of people like it, but it was hella boring. I seriously hope this game isnt anything like it.

[marshalleck]

Eve was a crummy game. Sorry, I know a lot of people like it, but it was hella boring. I seriously hope this game isnt anything like it.

Well put it this way: the concept as it is being pitched right now on websites and interviews is basically EVE, but without the elements that people play that game for. What does that tell you?

I personally hope it means there is A LOT more to this game than they have let on.

[Thorgar]

Well put it this way: the concept as it is being pitched right now on websites and interviews is basically EVE, but without the elements that people play that game for. What does that tell you?

I personally hope it means there is A LOT more to this game than they have let on.

man we must read different articles, or your ignoring whats being posted by the devs. yeah eve sucked, but this doesnt read anything like eve except its in space.

[Recollection]

man we must read different articles, or your ignoring whats being posted by the devs. yeah eve sucked, but this doesnt read anything like eve except its in space.

RIGHT, EVE IS NOTHING compared to STO

[Kinkade]

I think that there will be "classes." You choose your specialty and it is reflected in what type of ship you start off with and what special types of armor, sensors, weapons, engines, etc. you can customize.

For example if you are a science specialist you would get a science ship at the beginning and have access to more advanced sensors and probes, but you have a more limited selection of weapons.

But I think you should be allowed to eventually have access to every class of ship no matter what your class is. You just have to make the best choice. A class specializing in fighting shouldn't take a science ship because if wouldn't be much use to him.

I didn't read all 12 pages so if someone said the exact same thing as me already, I agree with you.

[Deadzone]

RIGHT, EVE IS NOTHING compared to STO

Oh? and since this game has been out for...oh, wait.....its NOT OUT..lol, sorry, my bad. You have WHAT to base your "fact" on? Nothing that I know of.

Here's a fact I can give you though. Eve has been released for 6 years. Each year their subscriptions have continued to rise. EACH YEAR. They are over 250k subscribers now. While EVERY single other MMO has had its subscription base DECREASING. Well, if a MMOs subs are going up after 6 years, in relation to most/all of the others going down, that tells you something.

I'll also give you another fact about EVE and more in general ..the MMO community as a whole. EVE is NOT an easy game to learn. WOW is a VERY easy game to learn. A lot of people have VERY short attention spans and want INSTANT gratification. Thats not just me talking, thats a proven fact.
EVE does not give instant gratification nor does it play well to lazy people who aren't inclined to use their brain cells for any length of time.
WOW on the other hand does just that. It very simply shows how these two types of people greatly differ in the MMO community.

Just becasue you couldn't handle playing EVE in no way proves that it sucks. What it DOES prove is that you want instant gratification and dont want to put work into the game. Which means, you should go back to WOW :D

I do have to admit though STO need not be on a hard learning curve as EVE is. EVE is a one-of-a-kind game and was designed that way from the beginning. STO isn't. MOst MMO's aren't looknig for niche markets, they want a piece of the BIG pie. So they will dumb down their games for more of the masses. And yes, I said dumb down...as per my discussion above.

Can STO still be a good game? Sure it could. But EVE not holding anything to STO? ROFL- we'll see in 6 years if STO is still increasing their subscriptions and ever-adding to their game. If they are, then STO can hold its own against EVE. You can get back to me then.

But just because Star Trek has been a TV show doesnt mean $hit mate. A good TV show/movie sure as hell doesnt make a good game...and there have been countless testaments to that over the ....decades.
Look at all the previous Star trek games. I rest my case.

**EDIT- and I have liked ST from a kid and watched the origional series on TV. So you can put a STOP on your fan-boy crap.

[Kristov]

No offense Deadzone, but there is another MMO who's subscriptions have continued to rise during it's lifetime...WoW :) Don't get me wrong, the two games are nothing alike and the only reason WoW has the numbers it has is because of how easy it is. Has nothing to do with how immersive it is, it's background and storyline(which 90% of the players do NOT have any clue about, despite seeing it constantly ingame I might add), or anything that people would actually consider good reasons for high subscriptions...it's just because of how easy WoW is to play. Outside of the raids, you can solo play WoW from level 1 to level 70 without any problems and without having to play areas that are under your level..most people actually solo in areas over their level. Takes a few weeks to a month to hit 60/70(cap depending on whether you have Burning Crusade or not) without power levelling and playing solo. Takes a few hours to understand the complicated and deeply involved skill tree systems WoW uses, or you can visit the WoW main website and understand it in a few minutes :) It is, quite simply, a LCD MMO and it works because of that, combined with Blizzard's massive advertising campaigns.

*LCD = Lowest Common Denominator..ei - cater to the dumbest people and you'll make money*

[Recollection]

don't get me wrong now, i been with EVE for a very long time now, i have my own alliance, i have a freaking Leviathan, so don't tell me i don't know what i'm talking about, you realy think that NONE of the EVE players are going to switch over? yea right, i know around 400 people that i asked in game about STO and they would move to STO once it comes out, and thats out of about 600 players that i asked

Now EVE is Unique as you sayd, yes it is cuz the skilling is purely real life timing and nothing more then that
i seen everyone complain about the skilling at some point, where skills take upto a week/month or even longer, and that is WITH the training skill and maximum implants

players are tired of that kind of gameplay style

how many players have i seen that are new that can't even live in 0.0 cuz everyone just ganks them each time they get a chance, and skilling for 0.0 is also pointless, cuz one way or anything you can't outmax a person that been playing for years

with the information given players with STO wil be able to get stuff done

so why not give me your EVE nick and i'l come and pay you a little visit with my alliance, lets see how you would like that

oh and i'm kinda woundering, if your so in love with your precious EVE Online, then why are you here now waiting for the release? I REST MY CASE

[walkingshark]

personally i think perpetual was doing a much better job...

Personally I think my imaginary pony is much prettier than your imaginary pony.

[walkingshark]

RIGHT, EVE IS NOTHING compared to STO

Your Prius is nothing compared to my magical Pony!

[Recollection]

Your Prius is nothing compared to my magical Pony!

you got to many pony's, you should ride a ship for a change:D

[Deadzone]

don't get me wrong now, i been with EVE for a very long time now, i have my own alliance, i have a freaking Leviathan, so don't tell me i don't know what i'm talking about, you realy think that NONE of the EVE players are going to switch over? yea right, i know around 400 people that i asked in game about STO and they would move to STO once it comes out, and thats out of about 600 players that i asked

Now EVE is Unique as you sayd, yes it is cuz the skilling is purely real life timing and nothing more then that
i seen everyone complain about the skilling at some point, where skills take upto a week/month or even longer, and that is WITH the training skill and maximum implants

players are tired of that kind of gameplay style

how many players have i seen that are new that can't even live in 0.0 cuz everyone just ganks them each time they get a chance, and skilling for 0.0 is also pointless, cuz one way or anything you can't outmax a person that been playing for years

with the information given players with STO wil be able to get stuff done

so why not give me your EVE nick and i'l come and pay you a little visit with my alliance, lets see how you would like that

oh and i'm kinda woundering, if your so in love with your precious EVE Online, then why are you here now waiting for the release? I REST MY CASE


Oh noes!!!! he threatened me on the internets with his internets ships.

Dude, you need to either get a life or just end yourself. You have a Leivithan. WHOOOP DE DO!! You da man, you are numero uno honcho!!! you're the BIG CHEESE!! We shall all bow down to you!!

Its obvious by your relply you dont have the brain to make an intelligent post and actually back up your arguments. ALL you have proven is that you can make threats over the internets with your internet ships.

Its exactly people like you who bring games down to the "LCD= lowest common denominator..ie- cater to the dumbest people" as the previous guy to me posted, who btw made a nice inteligent post.

Well, if all your 400 peeps want to leave EVE for STO, have fun! All the less lag for the rest of us! :) Don't forget to contract all your stuff to me first.

Oh- to answer you little question at the end, I've played for 6 years. I've kind of burned out on EVE, as anyone who has played anything does after any given amount of time. But I guess you , being the ominipotent being with your Titan, will just leave EVE....just because?.....:rolleyes: Oh, I forgot. You were just playing EVE to waste time until STO came out....but STO was still a twinkle in someones eye at that point...ahh well, minds of the gods and all that.....:rolleyes:

Thank you and have a nice day :cool:

[Kinjiru]

Pirates of the Burning Sea has everyone be captain and it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong the game IS bad, but for other reasons they can patch. well it's SoE so I don't hold high hopes.

True enough. That's what I'm afraid of. I'm still hopeful though.

[mikester101]

I think that there will be "classes." You choose your specialty and it is reflected in what type of ship you start off with and what special types of armor, sensors, weapons, engines, etc. you can customize.

For example if you are a science specialist you would get a science ship at the beginning and have access to more advanced sensors and probes, but you have a more limited selection of weapons.

But I think you should be allowed to eventually have access to every class of ship no matter what your class is. You just have to make the best choice. A class specializing in fighting shouldn't take a science ship because if wouldn't be much use to him.

I didn't read all 12 pages so if someone said the exact same thing as me already, I agree with you.

i could see that happening

[bedoll34]

i hope to god that $medley isnt working for cryptic LOL

[Kinjiru]

i hope to god that $medley isnt working for cryptic LOL

Nah, I'm sure he's too busy ruining the Agency.

[Trekkie]

Honestly, I think people might be reading into the interview just a bit too much. I think that the real test will be the gameplay footage that is unveiled tomorrow, because I think it will answer a lot more questions than the short article involving Jack Emmert ever will.

[Kinjiru]

Honestly, I think people might be reading into the interview just a bit too much. I think that the real test will be the gameplay footage that is unveiled tomorrow, because I think it will answer a lot more questions than the short article involving Jack Emmert ever will.

Hehe, don't worry, we'll over analyze it anyway, just like we're doing with the press releases. :D

[ChiefBrex]

Honestly, I think people might be reading into the interview just a bit too much. I think that the real test will be the gameplay footage that is unveiled tomorrow, because I think it will answer a lot more questions than the short article involving Jack Emmert ever will.

Thank you! I've been saying this in nearly every thread for the last two days...

[ExAstris]

I'm interested to see how they handle this issue in STO. What I do know is that Champions Online was looking to minimize (if not extinguish) the archtypical class system and go with skill trees instead, and that philosophy might serve well in star trek also.

Skill trees do not necessarily mean one man does all though. And since it seems many of the posters here are familiar with EVE and/or WoW, I would draw attention to the former as proof of a good working skill tree. Whether or not a time based learning system, or an xp driven one is another debate alltogether, but the reality is that EVE's skill system works. The only major drawback is that new players can never catch up to old ones in raw sp, however, it only takes so long to max out your skills in a certain area so dedicated battleship pilots will be looking at nearly maxed out skills for a particular battleship and its weapons after a year.

But enough of the WoW vs EVE debate, STO could use either system in the star trek universe and make it work. The departments of science/engineering/tactical/command lend themselves well to classes, and the vast diversity of characters, maneuvers, ships, equipment, etc in star trek lends itself well to a diverse skill tree.

Personally I vote for a skill system msyelf so long as it isn't done like Guild Wars (which makes great balance and great gameplay but just feels horribly limiting), but time will tell.