Tank Ship, Healing Ship, Ninja Ship, Mage Ship...

[USS_Parallax]

Lets talk about how ships might diversify their powers beyond weapons and shields for battles.

I would want something more creative than a Tank Ship, Healing Ship, DPS Ship, etc. XP


Here's some of my ideas (in no depth):

While some smaller ships may not be that powerful they can still help a lot. This can help get rid of the attitude of "Why have a fleet of a Captial Ship and smaller ships when I can have one of all capital ships?".


Maybe a ship with strong sensors can "transmit it's data" to other ships in it's fleet to help find a cloaked ship or simply shoot ships with more accuracy.

A medical ship (love those ships with the circle heads) could attend to the crews of all the ships and therefore make battles last longer with less ship crew fatigue/death/etc.

A ship with an admiral or a capital ship could boost command stats of nearby fleet ships.

A ship with great shields can have their shields envelope other damaged ships to keep them from being destroyed and tow them away with a tractor beam.

A ship of science has an extra surplus of Engineers or something and can transport them to another ship to help that ship repair.

A scout ship can speed through enemy fleets and relay specific data regarding the enemy in real time to the rest of the fleet.

A assault ship could have an extra amount of boarding parties ready to invade enemy ships.

etc etc

[Busby08]

The Star Trek setting is the ideal place to break out of this stale must have Tank, healer etc... What i'm hoping for is a very tactical type of combat and alot of customization. For example say you have a vessel that was originally designed for science. However, you could refit your ship to fight in combat. The advantage of it is its enhanced sensors, able to detect ships earlier and find weak points of it. The disadvantage of it is that its wasn't made for combat. Although you have increased its combat abilities, again it won't be able to hold as many torpedo's or phaser banks.

Something like that. This is an ideal chance to allow almost complete customization of your starship.

[njdss4]

Your ideas are good, Parallax. I don't know how else STO is going to let ships be different from each other.

[USS_Parallax]

I hope Torpedoes and Phasers are heavily customizable. Maybe you customize your Torpedoes to acts and heat seekers almost but have less power while others choose to stay with the straight firing powerful ones. Maybe you can make your phasers more effective at disabling ships without destroyed them at the cost of power. Idunno.

[Falin]

Just say no to buff ships.

shiups have purposes, yes, but they're not meant to take the palces of classes in other MMO's.

[USS_Parallax]

Just say no to buff ships.

shiups have purposes, yes, but they're not meant to take the palces of classes in other MMO's.


I agree but I wouldn't mind a few special buffs. Like that DS9 Episode where a shield generator thing is actually somehow protecting all the enemy ships by buffing their shields a lot and they have to destroy that thing first.

However I don't think I'd want to see the Federation have that ability. :P Maybe NPCs.

[Signal]

No, just let each individual ship be itself and disregard all that "tank, healer, nuker" stuff from MMORPGs. Pirates of the Burning Sea proved that everybody can be able to take care of themselves and yet you can still have a fun and entertaining naval battle with multiple ships - it all boiled down to speed and positioning. In STO's case, if they do it right, I'm sure they can have awesome space ship battles without relying on the old tropes of "Tank and support" classes. Make it more clever than that; a game based more on strategy rather than how fast you can click attack buttons and special powers.

[IanD967]

No, just let each individual ship be itself and disregard all that "tank, healer, nuker" stuff from MMORPGs.

agree! :D couldent say it better myself heh

[Acelan]

Ummm, this thread really is assuming that ships would take on traditional MMORPG player roles, which I hope is not the case. That would not be appealing to me at all. IMHO ships should take on their traditional Star Trek roles, as vessels and used as seen in the rest of the Star Trek franchise. MMORPG player roles, DPS, Healer, etc should be left to the player's toons, for away missions, boarding parties, questing, so on. :)

[Ziana]

Because EVE Online is ship-centric (essentially, your ship IS your character; your avatar itself is merely a name and a skillset, your ship is the body you inhabit), ships fall into significantly different roles in combat. You have short and long range assault craft, capital ships (tanks), healing ships, and support ships with EM countermeasures and warp disablers and so on.

STO should, or will hopefully, be character-centric. That means that the person you play in the game: the human/vulcan/klingon/whatever, is the focus of all your gameplay. You care about your avatar. That's the very essence of a Role Playing Game: you can identify with and see yourself as the entity you're playing.

Characters should have separate roles, based on archetypes in the shows: command, tactical, and support. These suit different player personalities/psychologies.

Now, certainly, ships can play different roles in battles, and be better at different types of missions. For example, science vessels may be all sorts of interesting science-related missions. Cargo ships get trading missions, and so on. There will be capital ships and assault ships. But to my mind, which type of ship you fly depends on the size your guild has been able to earn, and the focus or choice they've made: combat, support, speed vs strength, etc.

[Ka]

No, just let each individual ship be itself and disregard all that "tank, healer, nuker" stuff from MMORPGs.


I completely agree that breaking down the traditional class barriers would be monumental, however without some basic structure design starts to lose focus.

My idea for ships was and is that they should exist as a secondary class allowing players to experience the game as a different class of players without having to constantly re-roll. For example, if one was to play as a Medical Officer they may be relegated to healing whenever playing, but by allowing them to purchase a "tank" ship they can at least be a tank when they go into space missions. You could of course always sell off your ship and buy another one but you may not be able to change your class (or maybe you can, I don't know at this point).


-Ka

[Word2BigBird]

Ummm, this thread really is assuming that ships would take on traditional MMORPG player roles, which I hope is not the case. That would not be appealing to me at all. IMHO ships should take on their traditional Star Trek roles, as vessels and used as seen in the rest of the Star Trek franchise. MMORPG player roles, DPS, Healer, etc should be left to the player's toons, away missions, boarding parties, questing, so on. :)

^This

I think we need to stop thinking traditional MMO's. I wouldn't want to be a developer on this game because alot of the ideas are going to be brand new to the MMO world.

However if you asked me, or probably any of us to brainstorm ideas for an MMO called "Knights Swords- A Dungeon Tale" - We could probably all think of 1000's of ideas.. because it has been done; and would be really easy compared to to STO.

They need to stay true to what Star Trek is... but yet make it fun for everyone, no matter what role they pick. I am hoping being an ensign is going to be almost as fun as a captian. (in WoW terms, of course a level 20 isn't as fun as a level 70, but level 20 is still fun)

[USS_Parallax]

I agree. However I'd like to see more diversity in ship powers then in the show. I just wouldn't like to see 'em basically fit the traditional MMO rolls. My post makes it sound otherwise a bit but that was not my intent.

[imperialmyrth]

STO needs to break away from the EQ tank, DPS, healbot, buff, group mentality for ship combat. not only does it make zero sense in ship warfare, but its old and tired. Ship combat should follow the logistical lines already established. Larger ships are heavy hitters and the back bone of fleets. Smaller ships are more manuverable and can snake in and out of combat and mabye used to get cloes enough for boarding operations. The roles for ships have been defined already in the mythos, there is no reason to reinvent it.

[J.L.Picard]

this will all depend on if STO will incorporate the special weapons from armada if they do then I can see alot of people making nebula class ships(buffs) and people using the defiants anti matter mines to lay down traps and the akiraas super awsome chain pulse thingy not to mention the Negh'var's Ion Cannon special weapon upgrades would see ALOT of diversity introduced into the game not to mention the increase in the tactical strategies available it would literally allow GOOD people to turn the tide of battles.

The entire tank,healer ,dps is idiotic far STO you have a crew for a reason your engineers will fix your ship your medics will heal you crew your bridge crew will see to shooting maneuvering and everything ship movement related and you scientist will do you science stuff. Your **** is like a 5 man group with a group of people for everything.

[Daggaroth]

in the star trek world it is your crew over your ship that will help you win the day. case and point: U.S.S. Voyager NCC-74656 this is an intrepid class starship, designed for scientific exploration, yet due to its crew making ajustments the ship has survived multipule run ins with the borg, species 8472, the Krenem. the Kayzon, and 2 dozon other hostile elements on their way back to earth.

so you just have to know who is sitting in your captains chair, who is in main engineering, and who is behind tactical and who is at the helm to decide if a galaxy could defeat a Defiant

[JoeCold]

I have to go along with the idea that these roles are important, but should be crew based rather than ship based. Large scale ship battles should be tactical in nature. The buffs and benefits if each ship in the flip should be individual and based on the skill of the crew within.

At least, that's how I'd like to see it work. :rolleyes: That is, of couse, dependent on multi-player crews. *crosses fingers for multi-player crews*

[J.L.Picard]

dont get me wrong I want crew to allow a scout to beat a destroyer what i dont want is to be seing stupid things like a bird of prey taking on an akira and wiinning that would simply be retarded because unless the akira does NOTHING that would be impossible

[Ahkileez]

There will always be a certain amount of dynamism needed in the game, or this is going to get old so fast it'll go back in time.

The traditional formats don't have to be followed to benefit from the variety - and hence interoperability - they imply. There can indeed be defensive ships armed with probes and drones that can draw off fire and help protect itself or its fleet/taskforce. There can indeed be high-stealth 'assassin' type ships that are fast and difficult to target, with specialist 'critical hit' weapons. There can indeed be large juggernaut 'tank' type ships that are slower, but much tougher and able to augment shields of nearby ships (as has been demonstrated in Trek numerous times).

All these things are possible, logical, and will help maintain the longterm health of the game because it will keep people engaged and prevent it from becoming a boring straight-line ladder where your only hope is to advance to the next ship up with a little better shields and a little better weapons.

[Dext]

Lets talk about how ships might diversify their powers beyond weapons and shields for battles.

I would want something more creative than a Tank Ship, Healing Ship, DPS Ship, etc. XP


Here's some of my ideas (in no depth):

While some smaller ships may not be that powerful they can still help a lot. This can help get rid of the attitude of "Why have a fleet of a Captial Ship and smaller ships when I can have one of all capital ships?".


Maybe a ship with strong sensors can "transmit it's data" to other ships in it's fleet to help find a cloaked ship or simply shoot ships with more accuracy.

A medical ship (love those ships with the circle heads) could attend to the crews of all the ships and therefore make battles last longer with less ship crew fatigue/death/etc.

A ship with an admiral or a capital ship could boost command stats of nearby fleet ships.

A ship with great shields can have their shields envelope other damaged ships to keep them from being destroyed and tow them away with a tractor beam.

A ship of science has an extra surplus of Engineers or something and can transport them to another ship to help that ship repair.

A scout ship can speed through enemy fleets and relay specific data regarding the enemy in real time to the rest of the fleet.

A assault ship could have an extra amount of boarding parties ready to invade enemy ships.

etc etc

Will I see your point but there will be ships that can take more damage then others. but for the rest of it I would be the people in the ships having to fix things as the fight is going out so other ships could not heal you.

[Daggaroth]

dont get me wrong I want crew to allow a scout to beat a destroyer what i dont want is to be seing stupid things like a bird of prey taking on an akira and wiinning that would simply be retarded because unless the akira does NOTHING that would be impossible


you got to remember in Star Trek : Generations a single bird of prey was resonsable for the loss of the Enterprise NCC-1701-D because their crew hacked into gordys vizor to get a reading of the shield harmonics

[PhantomPhoton]

We definitely need to beak the standard RPG mold here, most especially when it comes to ship combat.
Quite simply if there are "healing ships" the game is doomed. :p

It will hopefully be about providing options. Tactics, preparation, good engineers, great commanders making decisions in the heat of battle. Not the holy trinity of Tank, Healer, Nuker

[JSM3050]

The majority of Federation ships are well-rounded and could fill almost any role. However, some stand-out as better in some areas. Defiant-class vessels are small, nimble, and pack a punch for their size. Akira-class carries more torpedo tubes than is healthy and since torpedoes out-range phasers by a hefty margin, it makes an excellent "artillery" vessel. Nebula-class was the most modular of them all and was often seen with a HUGE sensor pod. Certainly seems like a good C3 vessel for large engagements with all that sensory equipment.

Just my $0.02.

[JoeCold]

Certainly ship classes are designed with different roles. Some are better equipped for scouting/forward observing, some are bigger and can take more damage. However, these are based on size/power/mass ratios, so are tactical roles.

So, a bigger ship should be able to take much more damage and put out much more firepower. There shouldn't be a "tank" ship that can take a beating but doesn't dish it out like the "dps" ship. Or a ship whose sole purpose is to extend its shields over others.

The point I'm making is that different ships should take on different, general, tactical roles, but the nuances of what would be "buffs" in other games should be based upon the crew of each individual ship. A ship "heals" faster because it has an excellent engineer, not because it is acted upon by another ship. It "heals" slower because it has a lesser engineer. A ship has more dps potential because of its sheer firepower (which will generally associate with size), but may fall very short of that potential because its weapons officer is unskilled.

The point I attempt to make is that traditional MMO roles shouldn't be duplicated here because some of those roles should fall on the ship, some on the crew and some on both. However, each ship should be self contained in that its crew shouldn't affect other ships. In the end, each ship is an island in terms of its own effectiveness, but plays a role in a bigger tactical picture, working together with its fleet.

Of course, there are some ways ships could affect each other in more natural ways, such as target painting by scout vessels for the big gun ships.

[InSin]

The majority of Federation ships are well-rounded and could fill almost any role. However, some stand-out as better in some areas. Defiant-class vessels are small, nimble, and pack a punch for their size. Akira-class carries more torpedo tubes than is healthy and since torpedoes out-range phasers by a hefty margin, it makes an excellent "artillery" vessel. Nebula-class was the most modular of them all and was often seen with a HUGE sensor pod. Certainly seems like a good C3 vessel for large engagements with all that sensory equipment.

Just my $0.02.

I would start by saying I generally agree with this idea. My thoughts are this. Have different types of hull. Namely Frigate (FG), Destroyer (DD), Light Cruiser (CL), Heavy Cruiser (CR), Battle Cruiser (CB), Dreadnought (DN), Battle Ship (BB) (maybe carriers...?). Each ship would have different layouts obviously. FGs for example have less mass than a BB meaning it's more maneuverable, it accelerates faster and is not affected by gravity as much as the capitol ships. This means that while in no way is it possible for a FG to stand toe to toe with a BB, there is also no way the BB could chase it through an asteroid belt or planetary ring. Also a group of FGs could more easily maneuver into position to open up on main engineering (which also houses the warp core).

On top of this I suggest heavy ship customization. Each hull would come with standard weapons. But whats stopping you from adding an extra phaser bank and taking out that unnecessary ventral phaser? Or adding an extra warp engine or stronger shields or strengthening the bulkheads of your hull. Well mostly the space available on this ship and your power supply. So maybe you can upgrade warp cores and warp engines too. Still it'd be dumb to think that a FG could house as large of a warp core or as many auxiliary reactors as a BB. Also adding hull strength means heavier materials in most cases and added supports which means more mass and thus you lose some of the advantages of having a smaller ship. This means you could take, if you wanted too and had the money/prestige/experience, a Galaxy class and turn it into a Galaxy X (add a phaser cannon and a third warp engine).

As for the classes I would suggest something along the lines of this Frigate = Intrepid class, Destroyer = Defiant Class, Light Cruiser = Nebula class, Heavy Cruiser = Galaxy Class, Battle Cruiser = Akira class, Battleship = Prometheus class.

Naturally this would also suggest other things such as... Battle Cruisers (BC) and Battle Ships (BB) will outgun Light Cruisers (CL). But a CL is more likely to have the upgraded sensors standard, is likely to have larger cargo bays and more transporters. Also smaller ships wouldn't need the same kind of power to operate, this means that their reduced power signatures would be harder to detect as well.

Also, there could be fuel added in... you need certain things to keep your ship going. A combat vessel would probably not be able to have the same length of deployment as an exploration vessel... so it would need a station or friendly ship to resupply it. In neutral territories it could cost a fee. In regions where relations are tense it could be a large fee. In hostile regions you might not be able to get supplies from the locals (but maybe a hail to one of your on-line buddies with that fast frigate and large cargo bays could solve that problem for you... maybe not even charge you if he likes you)

Just some thoughts I had.

[CHN_BEAR285]

I am open minded as long as they are true to the STAR TREK ideals and what has come before. I expect the game to evolve as time goes on. Omg I gotta tell ya I just wanna get started lol, I have moved into EVE online about 11 months ago, and the game has its good points. But it will never be Trek and that will always be its greatest draw back for me.

I really hope we all start on a even playing field, where we train for our right to fly certain ships, we fail, we learn, we try again we achieve success and make our way to lead skirmish, fleets and armada's. The conflict part aka the pvp or pve is gonna be interesting to say the least. There are so may ways this game can go, but to be honest there is only most likely one right way. Do I know that way, ahhhhhh nope. But I know it when I play it :p