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View Full Version : Ranks, Ships and "Currency" and how the affect the game. My thoughts.


USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 11:18 AM
I've imagined a Star Trek MMO a few times before and I'll just share some thoughts I've had. :P


Ranks:

You star off as a Cadet and when you graduate the Academy you'll attain the rank of Ensign. The higher in rank you are the more bonuses and options you have such as what ship you use and what kind of NPC crew you can command (since I assume you won't need 1000+ real people for a Galaxy class ship). The ranks are split into 3 or 4 main "groups".

Cadet: Training Class given to you when you start a character. Almost a tutorial class.

Line Officers:
-Junior Officers-
Ensign, lieutenant junior grade, lieutenant
-Senior Officers-
Lieutenant Commander, Commander, Captain

Flag Officers:
Fleet Admiral
Admiral
Vice Admiral
Rear Admiral
Commodore


Bonuses you might get from ranks (mattering on what "class" you are be it an Engineer or Security Officer) would be stuff like NPC and player crew bonuses. An Admiral specializing in Engineering might give it's crew a bonus to Ship repair as well as a slight bonus to general effectiveness of the NPC crew while a Captain who specializes in Security might give a bonus in defenses.
The bonuses and additional options wouldn't be so over powered as to negate skill as to avoid "gear wars" like what happens in most MMOs.

Also ranks would be based on performance vs population when you get to the higher ones. The majority of people would be Junior Officers and Senior Officers. Lieutenant Commander would be the point where Casuals usually have trouble getting past. Commander and Captain would easier to get for the hardcore.
Flag Officers would be unique towards those most hardcore of players and would be few.

Higher Ranks have more options on ships. It caps after Captain. I wouldn't see an Ensign commanding a Galaxy-class ship but I might see a Captain commanding one or a Admiral. Lower ranks would be restricted to, generally speaking, smaller and more common ships.
Flag Officers would have a higher chance or getting rarer ships like Galaxy-class ships but while most might be in the hands of Flag Officers you've got to give the opportunity for lower ranks to get these rare ships even if it's much harder and the amount limited.



Ships:

These can be used by real players and come with an NPC crew. Mattering on the ship these would require certain amounts and certain ranks of real players to operate. A Galaxy-class ship might require at least a Captain and 2 Senior Officers and 3 other Officers (numbers just an example). An Intrepid-class might require at least a Commander and 2 other Officers (numbers just an example). A shuttle might just require a Cadet while a Miranda-class refit might require just a Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant.
A person of any rank can fill a spot that requires a rank below them. An Admiral can still fly a Shuttle or fill any Officer spot in an ship and can even hand command of the ship over to anyone else eligible even if they're of a lower rank. Basically this avoids having to be so specific for ranks when picking ships that it becomes too hard to group.

Sure, technically they should probably let you fly a big ship with only yourself and an NPC crew but expect the ship to be nerfed a lot and less effective without a real player crew at the bridge and engineering.


Ships would also be available but multiple means.
One way would be to "rent" one from an NPC Shipyard for a quest. Mattering on rank and influence you'll have more ships available.
However if you want to upgrade and customize your ship more then just a bit you'll have to "buy" one. Currency system aside (down) and can heavily customize it that way.

Guild ships would be a big part of the game too as guilds can assemble Fleets much easier (though you can outside of guilds too). Guilds get more and more resources (be it currency, influence, or whatever) mattering on guild population of unique accounts, ranks in the guild, achievements of the guild (a big part), etc. The higher the resources the more options the guild has when "buying" ships.
To avoid having a fleet of nothing but Sovereign-class ships there would be a limit of ships per class.. This would help diversify Fleets and make them more interesting.
Miranda Refits might not have a limit but Sovereign-class would be extremely limited.

The only problem here would be trying to make all the spots in a ship interesting and fun to play. Obviously the things we think of as fun would first be navigation and weapons. The hard part is making other spots more interesting.



"Currency":

(talking of Federation only and not Klingons yet)

We do know that Currency exists in Star Trek however it's de-emphasis so much in the Federation that it's of little to no use outside of some territories close to certain borders (you see them dealing with money in DS9 because of the economics of the area and you see the use of Federation Credits a few times elsewhere).
This just tells me that a Currency of some type should be available and it's use simply limited to certain border areas or traders who travel in Federation space.
The money currency would buy a limited assortment of supplies mostly for your person, sometimes for ship parts and rarely for whole ships beyond smaller ones (though possible for the soloers).

Trade would have emphasis too and I'd hope to see it somehow emphasized more in this then in most MMOs where it just becomes about gold gold gold.

The second type of currency would be "influence" or something of that nature. Basically as you complete missions, gain rank and do more and more for the Federation you obtain more influence (or whatever). There's your influence and a guild has it's own separate influence too. This can be used to access more ships, get parts for upgrades and refits, etc. This would be your main means for the "larger" things mainly focused around ships. Why not just use some cash? I don't think the Federation sells it's ships ever. :P
Influence could also give you more options like special missions, etc.



That's it for my incredible unorganized thoughts.

USSExcalibur
07-29-2008, 11:26 AM
i like some of your ideas, the rank system sounds good, and the ships having rank reqs sounds good! money is a touchy subject with the feds, but i think the mix of money and influence sounds like a good balance.
overall if i had any say i would use this system. but either way i am still excited to see this game get some activity again!

USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 11:43 AM
The Federation in my mind would supply a lot of stuff for "free" to it's players, a lot more stuff based off influence. However once you venture out and deal with non-Federation people (which I assume will be most of the time) you would have to deal with their economic system which is what we see the Federation do on it's borders though seemingly mostly with Trade rather than currency. However we do see currency so I don't mind putting it in there as long as it's got it's place.

Maybe each sector or area of space will have it's unique economic system. If you're deep inside Federation space you'll deal pretty exclusively through influence and trade. As you get closer to the borders it'll be mainly trade and currency. However I'd think you could get influence for different people but the main one being your very own faction.
If the Cardassians love you for some reason who's to say they won't give you a weapon of theirs? But that's a whole other matter.

Economies in game could change. Player Economy would be separate though. Any "Auction Hall" type things should be only on neutral ground or close to borders or in shared territory (like DS9).

As for the Klingons, this is already a touchy subject and I don't know much about their economy anyways.

spartan547
07-29-2008, 11:53 AM
Currency is going to be a very touchy subject. I don't think that the Federation should have a currency, but other races can. Depending on where they are their currency value might change. For example Romulan currency would have no value in Sector 001, but along the Neutral Zone it would be accepted. This way players could specialize in the currency of whatever region they spent the most time in and not be loaded down with a bunch of money they would never use. Of course there would have to be places to exchange currency and variable exchange rates.

USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 04:40 PM
What about ships?

FaeryFire
07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
The higher ranks, be they "hard" to get or not, will become increasingly common as the game ages.
Since getting a "promotion" is probably tied to mission, the simple repetition of mission will ensure you a promotion. The time you can play just determine if you get it fast or not.
After a time, the majority of the "hardcore" population will be in the higher ranks. They will be followed, over time, by "casual" players who keep playing the game.

Since it's a MMOG, promotion won't be tied to skill or abilities but to repetition of successful missions ad nauseam.
Then, the higher rank will be essentially determined by the gaming time (plus other mitigating factors like the ability to "group" or, at least, being a decent player).

It's just like hitting max level in most games. The question isn't : "will you ?" but "when ?"

So, there should be something incentive at keeping a lower rank and refusing a promotion (actually, getting it because you have enough prestige/influence/whatever).

It can then come from officer special abilities. If a Commander doesn't provide the same kind of help/bonus/whatever than an Admiral, people might want to stay commander because they enjoy that role.

I don't know... say...
A Commander provides a bonus to an Away Team mission
A Captain provides a bonus to First Contact/Diplomacy mission
An Admiral provides a bonus to coordinated ships maneuvers
etc...

Otherwise, most of players will simply race to the higher ranks just for the sense of accomplishment since there is no reason (if not an indirect penalty if you have access to more things the higher ranked you are) at staying at the lowers.

USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 05:09 PM
I'm talking a system like WoW's old Honor system but much more refined. Where you're competing for ranks with a lot of people and only a certain percentage of people can be Ensign, Captain, Admiral, etc with the % getting lower the higher the rank.

This would likely require the ability to get demoted though to keep the ranks even and let other people have the ability to rank up. Tt would be a common happening which is the main downside.



With ships I can understand you being reassigned. Rank though...

Kinkade
07-29-2008, 05:17 PM
I think using standard Navy ranks for the feds is a given. But I doubt they will be more then just names of different levels. For example Level 10 Engineer is Engineering Lieutenant or something. Maybe each new ranks gives a few new features.

As for money, this is one area where I say they just have to put canon aside to make the game playable. An in game economy is important, and it needs to have the same cross faction currency. Lets just use gold pressed latinum and call it a day.

I am a true trekkie at heart and I don't like the idea of using currency when the federation quite obviously doesn't have money, but trying to create some system to work with canon and call it credits or prestige is stupid. Cryptic shouldn't waste time on it.

If not having federation currency in the game is that big of a deal for you, I'm sorry, but if the game isn't fun to play it doesn't matter how much it sticks to canon.

FaeryFire
07-29-2008, 05:26 PM
I'm talking a system like WoW's old Honor system but much more refined. Where you're competing for ranks with a lot of people and only a certain percentage of people can be Ensign, Captain, Admiral, etc with the % getting lower the higher the rank.

Which would imply you get something "better" by having a higher rank.

The system you speak about will support competition between players. It will look odd, to me at least, in Starfleet to have characters compete with their officer to take their chair. When the shows often underline the virtue of cooperation.
Now, it has some sense out of Starfleet.

Yet, it looks it will favor gaming time (the more you play, the more likely you'll have possibilities to "outrank" others).
It would certainly limit the number of "higher ranked" characters but it might become a selective club only open to hardcore players.

While it might be argued that "hardcore" players deserve a better reward than "casual", I'm not certain it's exactly motivating for many players.

I prefer to have ranks tied to gameplay roles and purposes, where you rise in ranks to perform something different.
I wouldn't expect an admiral to come to every single away team because he provides whatever help better than a captain.
When I'd expect an admiral to be able to perform special things a captain isn't trained/qualified for and delegating away teams to lower ranks.
Just a matter of taste I guess.

USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 06:17 PM
It's practically impossible to limit the ranks and ships without a % system. I know it doesn't fit the lore but everyone is just going to be a Fleet Admiral in the biggest ship possible otherwise. Unless they can come up with something else which is possible.

FaeryFire
07-29-2008, 10:13 PM
Well, if being a Fleet Admiral isn't the ultimate goal of the careers...
After all, we have seen in a show a commander refusing promotion a couple of times. There must be a reason.

USS_Parallax
07-29-2008, 10:21 PM
I can understand a Captain not wanting a promotion since half of being an Admiral seems to be a desk job. Commander though... that was just a plot device for Riker. :P There was no real reason. :p

FaeryFire
07-29-2008, 10:51 PM
I always thought Riker enjoyed the possibility to tell "No captain, your duty is to stay on the bridge. *I* go on this planet to lead the away team"
Even if, actually, since it's just a fiction, you're right about the plot device reason :)

Another thought... if you have a ladder of ranks with players competing with each other, a limited % of the playerbase per rank and, at the same time, you have a gameplay experience that is influenced by rank (access to ships, access to stations for example), it might create a nice mess with players outranking and then automatically demoting each other.

Captain Picard comes on the bridge
- Number One, I would like you to-, the captain stops and looks around, ...Commander ?
- Ah sorry sir but commander Riker has been demoted to ensign because of the double XP week end. He couldn't make it. Bad luck.
- Oh... I see... Who is in charge now ?
- the Commander Worf
- Great... Good... but where is... Commander Worf now ?
- At the Ten Foward, listening the speech of the new captain.
- The new captain ?
- Yes sir. You must know that Ensign Crusher has farmed prestige like crazy and he outranked you. The boy is good, really. Oh and... sir....
- Hmmm ?
- You'have been demoted to lieutenant.

That would be fun... :)

InterArmaEnimSilentLeges
07-29-2008, 10:52 PM
They are going to have to find a middle ground. In numerous episodes from TOS to VOY there was mentioned of Federation Credits. Some examples are:
James T. Kirk stated that the Federation Starfleet had a lot invested in both he and Commander Spock. In fact, Starfleet had 122,200-plus credits invested in Spock by the end of 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", "The Apple") In 2267, Uhura offered to purchase a tribble for ten credits. (TOS: "The Trouble with Tribbles") In 2364, Beverly Crusher bought a roll of cloth and had her account on the USS Enterprise-D billed. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") The Federation would have paid 1.5 million Federation credits as a lump sum and then 100,000 credits every Barzanian year for the rights to the Barzan wormhole. (TNG: "The Price") Quark accepted credits in his bar when doing business with Federation citizens. (DS9: "Body Parts", "Take Me Out to the Holosuite"; VOY: "Caretaker")
Gene Roddenberry however was quoted as saying "money most emphatically did NOT exist in the Federation, nor did 'credits' and that was that."

ssra
07-29-2008, 11:45 PM
It's practically impossible to limit the ranks and ships without a % system. I know it doesn't fit the lore but everyone is just going to be a Fleet Admiral in the biggest ship possible otherwise. Unless they can come up with something else which is possible.

Agreed

Not necesarily a currency system, but at least a rep system or a rank system, or maybe both combined.

Maybe a currency system should be used for the non-starfleet ppl in case they whish a new ship and a rep/ranks system for starfleet personel.

It would be silly for starfleet personel to use curency to aquire ships instead of getting them from their superior officers.

Starknight
07-30-2008, 01:49 AM
They are going to have to find a middle ground. In numerous episodes from TOS to VOY there was mentioned of Federation Credits. Some examples are:
James T. Kirk stated that the Federation Starfleet had a lot invested in both he and Commander Spock. In fact, Starfleet had 122,200-plus credits invested in Spock by the end of 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", "The Apple") In 2267, Uhura offered to purchase a tribble for ten credits. (TOS: "The Trouble with Tribbles") In 2364, Beverly Crusher bought a roll of cloth and had her account on the USS Enterprise-D billed. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") The Federation would have paid 1.5 million Federation credits as a lump sum and then 100,000 credits every Barzanian year for the rights to the Barzan wormhole. (TNG: "The Price") Quark accepted credits in his bar when doing business with Federation citizens. (DS9: "Body Parts", "Take Me Out to the Holosuite"; VOY: "Caretaker")
Gene Roddenberry however was quoted as saying "money most emphatically did NOT exist in the Federation, nor did 'credits' and that was that."

My, how perfectly Communist of him.

Let's face it, ST has grown to be something bigger than Gene's vision, even if he did want it to be seen as some form of philosophy in his later years. If he wanted to keep things all his way, he should have insisted on stricter controls on the writers (of the shows, books, movies, and yes, even the cartoons) over the years.

I think the existence of the Federation Credit can be taken for granted (at least within canon). Now, the average citizen of the Federation probably never has to worry about having enough credits; it's an economy of abundance thanks to replicators and cheap energy. Prices on most things, especially things at the bottom of the self-actualization pyramid, are low enough that everyone has them. They also probably never deal with paying for anything in day-to-day life, as transactions probably happen automatically.

This doesn't mean that there aren't shady corners in out-of-the-way places where anonymous deals happen, but most people never encounter those anyway. Those kinds of deals, however, require some form of currency that isn't monitored by the Federation... which is where valuable items like gold-pressed latinum (which cannot be replicated) come in.

indelible
07-30-2008, 02:05 AM
During DS9, Gold Pressed Latinum was brought in as an acceptable form of currency, both within and outside the Federation. I expect the currency to be Gold Pressed Latinum in STO as welll. Simple.

ssra
07-30-2008, 03:43 AM
During DS9, Gold Pressed Latinum was brought in as an acceptable form of currency, both within and outside the Federation. I expect the currency to be Gold Pressed Latinum in STO as welll. Simple.

Yeah but there's a difference between accepted currencies and the oficial currency. It's the same as in RL: if you accept dollars it doesen't mean ur oficial currency has to be the dollar.