Atmospheric Flight

[Ric_Adbur]

Will atmospheric flight be incorporated into the release version of the game?

I doubt that starships will ever be able to enter the atmosphere of a planet, but what about runabouts and shuttles? In situations where the transporter is not functional or unable to be used, how cool would it be to fly a shuttle down to the surface?

[IanD967]

if you enter atmosphere with a shuttle or runabout then i hope if anything that you have to follow a path down but can still fly it but at the very least you can watch a cut-scene of your going down and landing on the planet

i would be just worried if you can breathe on the planet or not ;)

[Raven0238]

Thinking about this further, perhaps, they can sorta instance it, entering a cutscene, when you enter the planet atmosphere you will need to navigate it or soften your crash...I guess it could actually work.

[IanD967]

possibly as a mini-game so that to soften your landing you have to manually fire thrusters via some sort of engineering mini-game?

[captjames]

I think it would be stupid to have it as a mini game! Why not let us control it like normal? It is possible if a independent game developer can do it then I am sure CS can as well!

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/infinity_media.php

[IanD967]

i knew Infinity would come up again :D ....awesome awesome game...

you have a good point though, if a single programmer with a tiny tiny budget can do it then i cant see why Cryptic cannot

[0wl]

Will atmospheric flight be incorporated into the release version of the game?

In situations where the transporter is not functional or unable to be used, how cool would it be to fly a shuttle down to the surface?

What about those that chose not to use a transporter?!

But you are right it would be a great idear...

[Falin]

it would be nice to have seemless space to planet's but i doubt they'll do that. so i think atmospheric flight will end up being a instance change. bad for game timings, but probably going have to be to support he mechanics.

[Bovafett]

Lets not forget the Intrepid Class as a ship that can land on planet surfaces, along with other class ships.

Atmospheric flight is what I really want with the new space MMO's... like what Infinity is offering.

[LordDave]

it would be nice to have seemless space to planet's but i doubt they'll do that. so i think atmospheric flight will end up being a instance change. bad for game timings, but probably going have to be to support he mechanics.

Agreed. It would make the server maps far too large to be supported.

[Thomas45]

Erm...

Infinity the Quest for Earth is going to have millions of systems in space with lots of planets and you can go down to every single one of them in any ship and explore the planet, why cant STO do this, from IQE it shows it is possible to do today so STO would be missing a great feature.

[USS_Parallax]

Some ships should be able to. Mainly shuttles and stuff. We've seen Birds of Prey attack a base within the atmosphere and seemingly still have good moves and stuff. I think it would be extremely limited and some ships like a Galaxy Class would suck at it.

[LordDave]

Erm...

Infinity the Quest for Earth is going to have millions of systems in space with lots of planets and you can go down to every single one of them in any ship and explore the planet, why cant STO do this, from IQE it shows it is possible to do today so STO would be missing a great feature.

I just saw some videos...
That's.... that's insane.
The amount of actual areas they need mapped for multiple player interaction in the same area is... staggering. I can't even imagine what that "generate on the fly" universe is. I mean, does it generate it newly every time someone comes along, or does it simply generate a random universe and use that universal map?

Also the Space to Atmosphere looks like a gradual fade from space to ground without the miles of atmosphere.

[Thomas45]

I just saw some videos...
That's.... that's insane.
The amount of actual areas they need mapped for multiple player interaction in the same area is... staggering. I can't even imagine what that "generate on the fly" universe is. I mean, does it generate it newly every time someone comes along, or does it simply generate a random universe and use that universal map?

Also the Space to Atmosphere looks like a gradual fade from space to ground without the miles of atmosphere.

They say it works fine and its stable, everything you see in space and land is real and it effects everything, there is a video with one of the devs spawning Balls that rolled down the hill and the Balls were effected by the hill. Then they went into Space towards a Gas Gaint you could see from the planet and they went right to it in space with no lag at all.

The galaxy changes all the time in this game and new systems are added all the time and are jsut made out of the blue when a player enters that area of space so the game could expand forever so no one will ever see everything in the game.

The goal of the game i would think is to find Earth so it will take the players a long time to find the system...

[IanD967]

yeah im agreeing with Thomas here (as a fellow IQE follower aswell) it is clearly possible from the videos they have shown us from Infinity that it should be possible and there is no reason to say it cannot be done when it clearly is in another game that will have thousands of people doing it

[LordDave]

Like I said, they do cheat with the atmosphere. It's not like you travel all 1,000 miles of it down to the planet. Still, that's just absolutely nuts. To create something like that sounds so far fetched I'm skeptical even with me having seen the videos with my own eyes.
The logical side of my brain says that there isn't any reason why it wouldn't work. Servers break worlds up into zones and just feed you the information from the zone your in rather then the whole universe.
Still makes me dizzy thinking about it though.

[IanD967]

LordDave, if i was you why dont you try IQE Combat prototype? :) you might not be able to go onto the planets and retricted to a pretty large area (it is a combat proto anyway) you will find out how good it is even though it is a prototype heh

and they have come far far from the protoype now heh and it also uses Newtonian physics

[Aiten]

I mean, does it generate it newly every time someone comes along, or does it simply generate a random universe and use that universal map?

Also the Space to Atmosphere looks like a gradual fade from space to ground without the miles of atmosphere.

Its procedural, so based on very complicated maths. The basic principal is quite simple. If you had a program that was the sum 'n=x*100-1', if x was 10, and every time the program ran with x as 10, then it was always come up with the answer 999.

So basically, the universe is generated once, and since its an MMO where people will all have x as 10, therefore we can all play in the same universe.

[Bovafett]

Infinity is also only developed part time, and they have still done a fantastic job.

[IanD967]

and by a very few people with a bunch of modders contributing stuff :D

[LordDave]

LordDave, if i was you why dont you try IQE Combat prototype? :) you might not be able to go onto the planets and retricted to a pretty large area (it is a combat proto anyway) you will find out how good it is even though it is a prototype heh

and they have come far far from the protoype now heh and it also uses Newtonian physics

Wait there's a prototype downloadable?

I'll have to hunt for that.
\
Its procedural, so based on very complicated maths. The basic principal is quite simple. If you had a program that was the sum 'n=x*100-1', if x was 10, and every time the program ran with x as 10, then it was always come up with the answer 999.

So basically, the universe is generated once, and since its an MMO where people will all have x as 10, therefore we can all play in the same universe.

Now I understand. Instead of using saved points and loading that, the game can use math to generate the world without having to actually load anything other then a "You are here" point.

Neat.

[IanD967]

Wait there's a prototype downloadable?

I'll have to hunt for that.
\.

dont forget it is only a combat version, it has NO planetary landings of any sort (also you can fly in and about the asteroids...which is pretty cool with fighters)

here ya go > prototype (http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/infinity_combat_proto.php)

[Dustnite]

Its procedural, so based on very complicated maths. The basic principal is quite simple. If you had a program that was the sum 'n=x*100-1', if x was 10, and every time the program ran with x as 10, then it was always come up with the answer 999.

So basically, the universe is generated once, and since its an MMO where people will all have x as 10, therefore we can all play in the same universe.

I'm not sure if the Cryptic2 engine supports procedural code. It's one of those things that I've been waiting to hear about from the devs. Besides procedural has a downside to it: there will always be environments that are duplicated.

[Highcommander]

Will atmospheric flight be incorporated into the release version of the game?

I doubt that starships will ever be able to enter the atmosphere of a planet, but what about runabouts and shuttles? In situations where the transporter is not functional or unable to be used, how cool would it be to fly a shuttle down to the surface?

I don't think that games engines (likely based on the MMO engines of Cryptic or Perpetual) will allow for such a thing... It may be possible to make an instance where you can do atmospheric flight for a period of time.

For example:

Your ship is to land on a planet. As you land you load into an area where you can pilot the ship around above the "planets" surface. Upon landing you load back into the "normal" planet. I am not sure why or how you would need to implement this in the game though? What could this possibly add to game play?

[njdss4]

I don't think this will be in the game at all. It just seems too unimportant to be implemented. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to land my ship on a planet's surface, but I'd rather see Cryptic using their time to make sure other game mechanics work instead of trying to throw in a bunch that don't work out well.

[spokechecker5000]

Yeah I have to say that would be cool but I think it would be instance based. i think that if a mission called for it that it would be available via shuttle and not via star ship and I think that you would be limited in what you could do but I don't know for sure.

[Bovafett]

well as shown in other posts here, it is very possible to do do this... and, at least IMO, this is very much what I'd like to see in an MMO.... it would make it totally immersive.

[IanD967]

It just seems too unimportant to be implemented. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to land my ship on a planet's surface, .

dont forget it would only be for ships that can land (from my knowledge: BoP's, Nova and Intrepid) aswell as any and all shuttle craft so you would see the bigger vessels being burned up while entering as they would be too big and not even designed to get into the atmosphere

[Aiten]

dont forget it would only be for ships that can land (from my knowledge: BoP's, Nova and Intrepid) aswell as any and all shuttle craft so you would see the bigger vessels being burned up while entering as they would be too big and not even designed to get into the atmosphere

Actually, the bigger issue is populating an entire planet so that when you go over head, you know where to land, where is wilderness and what your looking for. The times that by 20 for the core planets such as Earth, Kronos, Bajor, Risa, Vulcan, Romulus, Andoria, Mars, Ferenginar, Trill Betazed, Cardassia.

It would be a huge undertaking.

[IanD967]

you could probably have pre-selected locations you can land at if you wanted so on one of the consoles in your shuttle it will come up with a list and soon as you click one it would either auto-drive you there or give you directions to manual fly there :)

[Thomas45]

Actually, the bigger issue is populating an entire planet so that when you go over head, you know where to land, where is wilderness and what your looking for. The times that by 20 for the core planets such as Earth, Kronos, Bajor, Risa, Vulcan, Romulus, Andoria, Mars, Ferenginar, Trill Betazed, Cardassia.

It would be a huge undertaking.

Well the things might just be spamed over and over to try and make it look real but not everything is going to be different but you kind of feel like your on a busy planet, kind of like Flight sim X, most of those things where just copied over and over again with some cars on roads and boats and planes.

[Cactus]

it would be nice to have seemless space to planet's but i doubt they'll do that. so i think atmospheric flight will end up being a instance change. bad for game timings, but probably going have to be to support he mechanics.

Don't see how this would be a major problem - Elite 2 managed it 16 years ago. As for making it too much work, serverside, seamless server transitions has been managed in WoW - each area in WoW is on a different node and you can run from say Westfall to Darkshire without loading screens, it's only the long distance stuff that needs loading.

I'd like to see the ablity to land certain ships like the Intrepid class as well as shuttlecraft and runabouts

[Cactus]

Actually, the bigger issue is populating an entire planet so that when you go over head, you know where to land, where is wilderness and what your looking for. The times that by 20 for the core planets such as Earth, Kronos, Bajor, Risa, Vulcan, Romulus, Andoria, Mars, Ferenginar, Trill Betazed, Cardassia.

It would be a huge undertaking.

It would be a large undertaking, but not impossible. The planets we know and love would need to be unique but you coud have "M Class version 1, 2 and 3" spammed across the galaxy, repeated for each type.

[IanD967]

It would be a large undertaking, but not impossible. The planets we know and love would need to be unique but you coud have "M Class version 1, 2 and 3" spammed across the galaxy, repeated for each type.

yah that is possible but would need about 10-20 different versions as the same 3 types would get old alot quicker than 20 different ones :)

[Ramierez]

That's actually part of the beauty of IQE using procedural math to generate the universe. They can get any number of random planets generated with little to no work on the planet itself...just a ton of work on the procedural code. Which, in of itself, would be nothing compared to trying to design billions of planets. Theoretically they can have 'infinite' planets, etc, since the code does all the work once it's been laid out.

I would absolutely love to see something like atmospheric landing, but I really doubt it will be in STO. Even if you don't have a starship that can do a planetfall, just imagine what it would be like to do a flyby through the atmosphere, or to maybe even hide in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant.

If you look at some of the other videos for IQE on youtube that are from the guys making the game, you'll see exactly why I would prefer a more photo-realistic STO than a 'stylized' one. Some of those views are simply breath-taking and will be the main reason I will definitely give IQE a try.

For some reason I've always felt that, even in most cartoon shows, when they use the term stylized, I think it's an excuse to peddle me something that looks crappier than it should. Sometimes it's used to good effect, the new Star Wars movie is stylized and looks cool that way (even if it is a bit odd). I just hope that if they stick to stylized here, that it's the same.

[Falin]

ok so they can procedurally create planets, that's fine, but can they procedurally create races for those planets, with history and ships and tecnology? don';t thoink so, still going to take a human to fill the universe. so I'd rather cryptic build the universe by hand and filled it properly.

[IanD967]

ok so they can procedurally create planets, that's fine, but can they procedurally create races for those planets, with history and ships and tecnology? don';t thoink so, still going to take a human to fill the universe. so I'd rather cryptic build the universe by hand and filled it properly.

hmm yeah i actually forgot about the races and technology and all that stuff that would have to be created by the code aswell....bugger :( but none-the-less this is about atmospheric flight and not instantly created worlds :)

[Duras]

The only other simulator I know is OrbiterSim. Thats a sim where you launch or fly in and out of the plants atmosphere. I hope STO has similar features...

[Sythian]

I would hope for this feature to be in game, if one used a shuttle craft to get to the surface, I would like to manually piloted it down.

[Ramierez]

ok so they can procedurally create planets, that's fine, but can they procedurally create races for those planets, with history and ships and tecnology? don';t thoink so, still going to take a human to fill the universe. so I'd rather cryptic build the universe by hand and filled it properly.

Ah...but you can't tell me that it wouldn't be easier to use procedural code to generate the planetary systems or planet geography, and then spend the time saved to create the race that lives there by hand? That is given that there would be plans to have a large amount of habital worlds.

I think that would really be the best thing to use to deliver a truly massive universe, use procedural code with some loose guidelines (maybe throw in real alpha quadrant star charts, etc) and have the code generate the planets. Then they could just fill in the blanks for the races that would live in the different systems. Would probably only be really beneficial on the large scale, otherwise creating the procedural code would outweigh the benefits.

[KO_Gilligan]

Ah...but you can't tell me that it wouldn't be easier to use procedural code to generate the planetary systems or planet geography, and then spend the time saved to create the race that lives there by hand? That is given that there would be plans to have a large amount of habital worlds.

I think that would really be the best thing to use to deliver a truly massive universe, use procedural code with some loose guidelines (maybe throw in real alpha quadrant star charts, etc) and have the code generate the planets. Then they could just fill in the blanks for the races that would live in the different systems. Would probably only be really beneficial on the large scale, otherwise creating the procedural code would outweigh the benefits.

I agree,

Procedural renders should be used if it can be incorporated well. The hand made galaxy might however be beneficial for the creation of the next 1200 expansion packs.

[Ramierez]

I agree,

Procedural renders should be used if it can be incorporated well. The hand made galaxy might however be beneficial for the creation of the next 1200 expansion packs.

Well...I would think there should also be a good bit of hand crafting on the galaxy, but let the procedural generate it, then have the team that developed the procedural code fine tune it while the team for the races goes in and populates it.

I really think there's room for a good compromise of both methods.

[Falin]

Well...I would think there should also be a good bit of hand crafting on the galaxy, but let the procedural generate it, then have the team that developed the procedural code fine tune it while the team for the races goes in and populates it.

I really think there's room for a good compromise of both methods.

thatwould work, and even though Player X visited Planet Z and never saw life there, doesn't mean that Player Q 2 years later visiting the same planet couldn't now see a class 2 civilization there.

[IanD967]

Well...I would think there should also be a good bit of hand crafting on the galaxy, but let the procedural generate it, then have the team that developed the procedural code fine tune it while the team for the races goes in and populates it.

I really think there's room for a good compromise of both methods.

yes i agree with that idea, would would be a good compromise between both sides

although the Dev's would have to create some worlds themselves so that people can encounter races that have already in space and owna few worlds like Voyager often came into contact with :)

[Aiten]

Well...I would think there should also be a good bit of hand crafting on the galaxy, but let the procedural generate it, then have the team that developed the procedural code fine tune it while the team for the races goes in and populates it.

I really think there's room for a good compromise of both methods.

Thats how EVE was done I believe.

[Ramierez]

yes i agree with that idea, would would be a good compromise between both sides

although the Dev's would have to create some words themselves so that people can encounter races that have already in space and owna few worlds like Voyager often came into contact with :)

I see your point, but it could still follow the same process. That's just where the fine tuning and the people assigned to deal with creating the races/architecture would come in.

[IanD967]

Wait there's a prototype downloadable?

I'll have to hunt for that.
.

did you manage to find it? :)

and any more thoughts and ideas on this subject? :confused: