Borg Learning Curve

[TruthSeer]

This might be over thinking it but if the borg are experts on assimilating and everything, wouldn't they learn after the first two invasions of earth and just send two cubes the next time? Or even after the first invasion, one cube nearly wipes out everything the Feds have wouldn't you just up the scale until you got it right?

[SF_Sigman]

are borg going to be playable? There has to be a common enemy in the game, and who better than to borg. And if then are just going to be computers then they are going to be defensive and u'll just have to kill then on missions that u go on for people.

[The-Traveler]

The Borg are confusing. If they live in the Delta Quadrant, then why is a species in that quadrant have a higher deignation number then an Alpha Quadrant species?

[Wonko]

Because the script writers didn't think about it. How the hell are Ferengi species 180, while Humans are in the 6000 range?

[USS_Parallax]

Maybe the Borg erase what they think are extinct species from their list and replace them with newer ones. That means if species number 2 gets destroyed or something and the next day the Borg meet a Changeling they might give the designation of 2 to the Changeling species.

[Sinclair]

Unless of course the Borg started in some sector of the Alpha Quadrant in history where scouts got to know the Alpha Quadrant species, and then expanded into the Delta Quadrant instead. I think the cannon says that the Borg are from the Delta Quadrant in the TNG era, but is there a written description of their actual originations and location of that?

[AdmiralHocking]

This might be over thinking it but if the borg are experts on assimilating and everything, wouldn't they learn after the first two invasions of earth and just send two cubes the next time? Or even after the first invasion, one cube nearly wipes out everything the Feds have wouldn't you just up the scale until you got it right?

That's something I've wondered about a few times.

In VOY: Dark Frontier; the Borg send two Cubes and the Queen's Diamond to assimilate a single culture, whom have developed weapons that are able to damage Borg vessels quite well. The Queen states that the Diamond is not required at the Assimilation, but attended for Seven of Nines benefit.

So why not send several vessels to Earth?

Although the obvious reason being that the script writers could never do that, since the Borg winning would mean bye bye Star Trek franchise.

Because the script writers didn't think about it. How the hell are Ferengi species 180, while Humans are in the 6000 range?

Borg Species IDs aren't necessarily based upon when the species was first encountered though. It could be to do with their location, their genetic profile or what ever.

[USS_Parallax]

Methinks despite the Federation fighting back the Borg so often they probably don't consider Earth the biggest threat. I mean they're on the other side of the Galaxy. We know there are a lot of species with tech more more advanced then the Federation and maybe a few of 'em are giving the Borg bigger problems. Specifically races that are much closer.

[Wonko]

Borg Species IDs aren't necessarily based upon when the species was first encountered though. It could be to do with their location, their genetic profile or what ever.
That's a good point. Borg have to be so complicated, after all.

[spartan547]

Maybe the Borg don't send more than one cube because they are playing with the Federation. Lulling them into a false sense of security and making them think that they are capable of defeating the Borg. Or maybe they are trying to accelerate the development of Federation technology so that when assimilation does take place the ingenuity of man will have produced something truly valuable and unique among the vast hordes of technology from other assimilated species. Or maybe they are afraid that Chuck Norris will rip a hole in the space time continuum and roundhouse kick them to fluidic space is they cause to much trouble in Alpha Quadrant.

[Stu1701]

Well the first cube the Borg sent pushed though Federation defenses rather quickly, the second was doing pretty well too until the Enterprise showed up. The first cube was destroyed because they activated the self destruct because Data had been able to access the control systems on the cube through Locutus, make all the drones enter a regeneration cycle. There must've been some sort of fail safe in the Borg system to prevent anyone else from stealing they're technology. The second attack was a little more complicated than just a frontal assault by the one cube. They planned to go back in time to stop first contact with the Vulcans, and making it easy for the Borg to assimilate the Earth of the past so the Federation never formed in the future. The only reason that failed is because the Enterprise managed to follow the sphere back in time to stop the Borg from stopping first contact.

[AdmiralHocking]

They point is though, that they did fail.

Send more than one Cube and they would win hands down.

[Stu1701]

They point is though, that they did fail.

Send more than one Cube and they would win hands down.

The point was that unlike the first plan, the second plan didn't revolve around the cube, it revolved around getting the sphere back in time. Plus the first one was destroyed on a minor technicality. Maybe the Borg's recourses are more spread out in the Alpha quadrant than in the Delta quadrant making sending more than one cube an unacceptable use of resources.

Besides, seeing one cube fighting all the smaller Federation ships just looks cooler.

[AdmiralHocking]

The point was that unlike the first plan, the second plan didn't revolve around the cube, it revolved around getting the sphere back in time. .

I meant the original posters point, not yours.

[Bretticus]

Well the first cube the Borg sent pushed though Federation defenses rather quickly, the second was doing pretty well too until the Enterprise showed up. The first cube was destroyed because they activated the self destruct because Data had been able to access the control systems on the cube through Locutus, make all the drones enter a regeneration cycle. There must've been some sort of fail safe in the Borg system to prevent anyone else from stealing they're technology. The second attack was a little more complicated than just a frontal assault by the one cube. They planned to go back in time to stop first contact with the Vulcans, and making it easy for the Borg to assimilate the Earth of the past so the Federation never formed in the future. The only reason that failed is because the Enterprise managed to follow the sphere back in time to stop the Borg from stopping first contact.

The fundamental flaw in the "time travel" episodes/films, in fact in most movies that have time travel is the Paradox effect. In ST if they had suceeded in stopping the vulcans visiting earth and no federation, which would mean no Enterprise to be flung into the far reaches of space by Q to bump into the borg, and therefore the borg would have been unaware of Humans/Eart, and therefore they never travelled back to stop the meeting etc etc etc. Does my brain in sometimes.

[TruthSeer]

Well hopefully they will continue to try in the game.

[Stu1701]

The fundamental flaw in the "time travel" episodes/films, in fact in most movies that have time travel is the Paradox effect. In ST if they had suceeded in stopping the vulcans visiting earth and no federation, which would mean no Enterprise to be flung into the far reaches of space by Q to bump into the borg, and therefore the borg would have been unaware of Humans/Eart, and therefore they never travelled back to stop the meeting etc etc etc. Does my brain in sometimes.

No, the Borg were aware of the Federation before Q flung the Enterprise in front of that first cube. Remember at the end of the first season of TNG, several outposts along the Neutral Zone had disappeared. When the Enterprise when to investigate, it was as if the outpost were just scooped off the planets they were on. Now since this was on the Neutral Zone border Starfleet obvious thought the Romulans were responsible. The Enterprise Encountered a Romulan Warbird claiming the same thing had been happening to their outposts. When the Enterprise was flung to System J-25 (where they encountered the cube) one of the planets showed similar signs of destruction to the destroyed outposts on the Neutral Zone. Once they encountered the cube they kind of put two and two together and made the connection; the Borg were responsible for the destruction of those outposts. It's also interesting to note that Starfleet may have been aware of the Borg far longer than that. Remember the El-Aurian refugees from Star Trek Generations? Starfleet probably debriefed at least a few of them to find out what happened to their world. When they found out that the Borg were all the way in the Delta Quadrant Starfleet probably didn't consider the Borg a serious threat yet. This also explains how the Hansons knew about the Borg. They took the USS Raven out to find evidence of their existence about ten year before the Enterprise's encounter.

The point of this is that Q wasn't completely responsible for their first encounter. The Borg would've encountered Earth eventually, and with no Federation around Earth would've fallen easily to the Borg.

Now I'm realizing I've gotten a little off topic... so yeah. Time travel is a little confusing, those Borg sent back in time would all be paradoxes. They would've assimilated Earth, there by making the Borg of that time aware of Earth because it was part of the collective all of a sudden. Of coarse, if you think about it, I don't think the Borg would mind having a foothold in the alpha quadrant that just appeared out of no where.

[Jonathan_Talon]

The movie "First contact" is a paradox but also states the fact that if the Borg and ENT-E hadn't gone back in time, the Vulcans would have never landed on that day. I'm also way off topic so let me bring it back to the learning curve....lol

The borg should be an enemy in STO but not playable. An good example would be.... "Your ship and crew gets assimilated but somehow, you all get rescued except the NPC's, hehe, so a few months later, you have a new ship and you run into the borg again. Now, the borg know your tactical stratagies which make them a harder foe." I want to see the borg in the game but not other people playing them as no one could do it correctly...except maybe our all mighty DEVS!

[Genex]

I have to say I would love to see the borg, Maybe just beam over and say 'Hi, Like my transphasic torpedoes?'

An intresting little part of the Paradox, in Year of Hell, Harry and 7 talk about the phoenix and 7 Does mention the Enterprise E saving the day, So wouldn't the Queen already know that the mission fails?

[disneyfan1206]

Maybe the Borg don't send more than one cube because they are playing with the Federation. Lulling them into a false sense of security and making them think that they are capable of defeating the Borg. Or maybe they are trying to accelerate the development of Federation technology so that when assimilation does take place the ingenuity of man will have produced something truly valuable and unique among the vast hordes of technology from other assimilated species. Or maybe they are afraid that Chuck Norris will rip a hole in the space time continuum and roundhouse kick them to fluidic space is they cause to much trouble in Alpha Quadrant.

we are waiting for the federation to make technology that may be harmful to us so when we assimilate you we can adapted to the weapon

[Ilithi_Dragon]

The Borg are not bent on conquest, they are bent on acheiving perfection, and then spreading that perfection throughout the universe. Their primary goal is the achievement of perfection, and anything that does not help them towards that goal and is not a threat to them or their goal, is irrelevant.

Also, the Borg do not explore in an expanding spiral around their 'homeworld', they send ships out in all directions, to different points in the galaxy, exploring into the depths of the Milkyway. This, coupled with the sheer size of space, will bring them into contact with some species far away from their territory than some species that are relatively nearby. The Ferengi being species 180 is supposed to be an indication of how far-spread Ferengi influence is and how long it has been around, not a mistake.

As for why the Borg haven't sent more than a single Cube against the Federation at a time... Those single Cubes have been probes, a sort of 'reconnassiance in force', whose primary mission was to probe the Federation and the region, with the secondary objective of assimilating the Federation. The goal of assimilating the Federation was a higher objective for the first Cube, because Federation defenses were completely useless against it, and so there wasn't as much need to probe the capabilities of the Federation when they could just be assimilated. The second Cube, which was much smaller than the first, had a higher objective on probing the Federation's defenses and their capabilities, and how they had advanced since the last incursion. That Cube was tasked with assimilating Earth, yes, but that was only for 'bonus points', so to speak.

I am also of the opinion that the decision by the Queen to travel back in time to attempt to assimilate Earth in the past was not made until the last moments before the Cube was destroyed, and that the Queen was not actually physically 'present' on the Cube until that moment, when the Sphere undocked (we've seen multiple physical incarnations of the Queen that have been destroyed, so we know that she has more than one 'body', and there isn't any real reason why she wouldn't be able to move her 'presence' between them at will, or even create them as needed. Her attempts at survival after the release of the reactor coolant could easily be explained by the fact that she was in the past, and not connected to the rest of the collective as a whole, and as such not able to upload her iteration back into the main collective (plus the obvious devastating effects her 'death' had on the rest of the drones, without another 'Queen' to control them available, which would put a cramp in her plans).

[miklamar]

Maybe the Borg erase what they think are extinct species from their list and replace them with newer ones. That means if species number 2 gets destroyed or something and the next day the Borg meet a Changeling they might give the designation of 2 to the Changeling species.
Like taking a number at the deli?

[miklamar]

The point was that unlike the first plan, the second plan didn't revolve around the cube, it revolved around getting the sphere back in time. Plus the first one was destroyed on a minor technicality. Maybe the Borg's recourses are more spread out in the Alpha quadrant than in the Delta quadrant making sending more than one cube an unacceptable use of resources.

Besides, seeing one cube fighting all the smaller Federation ships just looks cooler.

What if the Borg were busy conquering other races in the Gamma Quadrant? Also, could there be a power struggle between different Borg-princesses, each striving to be the the High-Queen?

[KL0k]

i wouldnt be surprised if they tried to get a foot into the gamma quadrant, since the cloning facilities of the jem'hadar, could be worth a visit. lol.