pvp ??

[draccan]

I hope there will be real pvp in this game.

For me it is too dull to explore a vast space and only have pve encounters.

Factional or guild pvp (latter is not very suitable for federation play, because that would amount to anarchy and civil war) is needed!!

[saber51]

if it were up to me Id ban PVP all together as it has ruined game play for me in EVE!

I know there gonna have PVP but I really hope they will make it tolerable for casual players not some fracking arcade shootem up.

ships should be durable and take a beating before finally being destroyed im all for serious battles but not gonna waste my time as a casual player if im just gonna get destroyed 2 seconds into the battle

I also want to be able to mine or haul without getting ganked every day but some PVPer showing off his torpedo size on defenceless haulers

what they should do is make WARZONES limited areas where PVP is Id also like to see HAZARD AREAS where smaller more casual PVP might occure these might be near battles but behind the lines a place for casual players or people new to PVP to get their feet wet without being thrown to the sharks right away.

[Redjohn]

if it were up to me Id ban PVP all together as it has ruined game play for me in EVE!

I know there gonna have PVP but I really hope they will make it tolerable for casual players not some fracking arcade shootem up.

ships should be durable and take a beating before finally being destroyed im all for serious battles but not gonna waste my time as a casual player if im just gonna get destroyed 2 seconds into the battle

I also want to be able to mine or haul without getting ganked every day but some PVPer showing off his torpedo size on defenceless haulers

what they should do is make WARZONES limited areas where PVP is Id also like to see HAZARD AREAS where smaller more casual PVP might occure these might be near battles but behind the lines a place for casual players or people new to PVP to get their feet wet without being thrown to the sharks right away.

I agree, so many games have been spoiled by the PvP.. Im not saying dont have it, but dont go forcing people to do it either.

If people want PvP then there should be a duel feature, or war game feature. Fleet versions too. But also with an option for players to disable duel requests. We all know PvPers only want to do it so they can feel big and hard against the lesser folk. A kind of "My ship is bigger then yours" thing. It has been in ALL previous MMOs. And this just invites the wrong kind of players into the game.

The times ive had my fun ruined by some kid who thought it would be great to attack a defensless toon, just because his mum had made him clean his room or something. Or just because that was the only way he could feel big.

There are games designed for PvP which in my opinion should be the only place for PvP, keep it out of the PvE orientated games. I know, PvP sells... but sometimes at a cost. In the past 8/9 years, Ive played numerous online games, Counter-Strike, EvE Online, EverQuest 2, The Matrix, Planetside, EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, and quite a few more. And the PvP aspect has always spoiled them for me. Anarchy Online for instance... if you want the best armor, you now have to go on a PvP battlestation and earn victory points to buy them. EvE, now you cant earn serious ISK in that without someone wanting to PK you. CS, a clearly PvP multiplay game, attracted too many kids to it, who didnt like losing so would end up cheating, (not just kids I know, some adults can be like that too, but the statistics speak for themselves in MMOs or MPOs).

/computer Rant Off

Anyway, I do feel PvP should be there for those who want to engage in it, and for those who just want to try, but also shouldnt be emphasized, we should gear more towards what the UFP's primary mission. To seek out new life, and new civilization. A mission of peace, but the ability to defend that peace too.

[Hagon]

I truly hope there is a PvP element to the game that is treated just as importantly as any PvE elements. I enjoy both aspects equally.

That being said if there is PvP, I hope that it is meaningful. Not just thrown in as an afterthought, or a "here's a place to PvP, go PvP" kind of thing. It needs a reason behind it.

[eNDIE]

They can design and find places to put pvp zones with some objectives this is the universe right?;). And players could be warned before they reach those zones. This game will be played by alot of different type of players, some like rp som combat/pvp some crafting and i dont think a game like STO would have to dismiss any of them.

And when it comes to EVE its a PVP oriented game (allthough i find the trade/crafting system intersting) that is ment to be cold and dark personaly i have managed quite good because ive been cautius.

[Blinkstrike]

That being said if there is PvP, I hope that it is meaningful. Not just thrown in as an afterthought, or a "here's a place to PvP, go PvP" kind of thing. It needs a reason behind it.

I think PvP should be in every MMO but I do not think it neads any incentive. PvP's incentive should be that its fun and people should engage in it willingly for the fun of it. I know in todays market everybody needs a prize for playing the game, but my personal ideal is a game thats just a game for the sake of having fun. I think it should be open PvP, anybody can attack anybody. However, I would put a penalty on PKing which is much different from PvPing which I believe is what the first two posters were talking about. For killing another person who does not wish to fight, the attacker should be turned into a pirate or something and open for anybody to kill without penalty. There are other ways to do it, but the pure FFO UO style with a penalty for PKing was always my favorite. I wish games had never moved away from that but oh well.

[Trajanus]

my feelings:

there should be PVP
it must be meaningful and designed into the game from the beginning
there should be rewards to balance the risk/loss
there should be a PVP-free zones or servers for players that do not wish to PVP

[draccan]

if it were up to me Id ban PVP all together as it has ruined game play for me in EVE!

I know there gonna have PVP but I really hope they will make it tolerable for casual players not some fracking arcade shootem up.

ships should be durable and take a beating before finally being destroyed im all for serious battles but not gonna waste my time as a casual player if im just gonna get destroyed 2 seconds into the battle

I also want to be able to mine or haul without getting ganked every day but some PVPer showing off his torpedo size on defenceless haulers

what they should do is make WARZONES limited areas where PVP is Id also like to see HAZARD AREAS where smaller more casual PVP might occure these might be near battles but behind the lines a place for casual players or people new to PVP to get their feet wet without being thrown to the sharks right away.

Well I can only rejoice that you are not the Game Developer then ;)

[Ziana]

The neutral zones should be dynamic. Different factions can conquer systems and incorporate them into their empires, so that borders shift over time.

Factions get benefits from having more systems (more quests to choose, material rewards, buffs).

The farther from your homeworld, the more difficult it should be to conquer a system. The closer, the easier it is to defend. This would make it difficult or impossible for a faction to completely take over; but a stronger faction could push the borders out a long way to "threaten" the space of a smaller one.

[Wesman]

If they're smart, they'll do what Blizzard did with WoW and make PvP servers and PvE servers. So those that love to kill people can simply jump into a PvP server and kill anything they see while PvE gets to choose if they wanna be flagged for PvE. That way mostly everybody will be happy.

[Sir_Cedric]

Ummmm Wargames anyone? Great way to test your skill, with no damage done to your ship, only points scored against you. ;)

[TookyG]

PvP in STO should, in my opinion:


Provide equitable risk/loss.
Have safe zones/servers.
Allow for defections for people to switch sides.
Have an impact within the game so that it's meaningful.

[Ravanos]

i don't even know if PVP would even fit into this game. Most races are hesitant to strike because of starting wars between civilizations.

i mean in many episodes ship to ship fighting was almost a last resort. that obviously will not happen in game.

[Redjohn]

I think PvP should be in every MMO but I do not think it neads any incentive. PvP's incentive should be that its fun and people should engage in it willingly for the fun of it. I know in todays market everybody needs a prize for playing the game, but my personal ideal is a game thats just a game for the sake of having fun. I think it should be open PvP, anybody can attack anybody. However, I would put a penalty on PKing which is much different from PvPing which I believe is what the first two posters were talking about. For killing another person who does not wish to fight, the attacker should be turned into a pirate or something and open for anybody to kill without penalty. There are other ways to do it, but the pure FFO UO style with a penalty for PKing was always my favorite. I wish games had never moved away from that but oh well.



what your describing here is almost eve... minus one or two details.

Open PvP is not fun, as you will always get the players who kill for the sake of killing.. PvP has never been (imo) meaningful. Was Hitler's slaughters meaningful? How about Osama Bin Laden's attrocities? Since when has hurting another person been meaningful? Now I know this is a game, and no one really gets hurt... physically. But there are still people out there who just want to play a game without it turning into another WoW or counter strike, and having your (in-game) pride and joy blown to smitherines by someone who just wanted an easy PvP kill can seriously effect the fun PvE players want to have. Just as much as if a PvP player was beaten by a better skilled player. 60% of the time the loser goes away feeling annoyed that he couldnt beat that player, and 50% of them turn into harrassments.

No PvP should not be forced. Creating PvP servers seperate from PvE is a good idea. Having Duel requests, or PvP flags is a good idea. Excluding PvP from the game, is a bad idea, as is open PvP.


i don't even know if PVP would even fit into this game. Most races are hesitant to strike because of starting wars between civilizations.

i mean in many episodes ship to ship fighting was almost a last resort. that obviously will not happen in game.

In episodes most races do use fighting as a last resort, with the exception of Borg, and a Kilingon on a bad day. Even the Romulans will find a way of winning the battle without going to war. But I think PvP is needed to attract people who do like to flex their imaginary muscles.

The neutral zones should be dynamic. Different factions can conquer systems and incorporate them into their empires, so that borders shift over time.

Factions get benefits from having more systems (more quests to choose, material rewards, buffs).

The farther from your homeworld, the more difficult it should be to conquer a system. The closer, the easier it is to defend. This would make it difficult or impossible for a faction to completely take over; but a stronger faction could push the borders out a long way to "threaten" the space of a smaller one.


And as for factional controlled systems, I will have to read up some more, but I dont think the UFP have ever been about conquering the universe.. .starfleet once or twice maybe but not the UFP. And in any case, if you want factional controlled systems, AO have Notum Wars which allows Tower Field Controlling, and Eve have started the Empyrean Age, Factional Fighting with rewards, and such.

[Hagon]

my feelings:

there should be PVP
it must be meaningful and designed into the game from the beginning
there should be rewards to balance the risk/loss
there should be a PVP-free zones or servers for players that do not wish to PVP
I can agree with all that. :cool:

I hope they avoid any kind of FFA PvP. It rarely makes sense and even just having FFA PvP servers available draws in the types of players that just end up making a game's community miserable. Make it make sense, and make it a core part of the story.

Make declaring what race you are mean something. Don't let players switch sides on a whim. If they want to experience the game from another angle, than make them do it on another server, or have to delete on their original server first.

You don't have to copy it, but take some lessons from the DAoC which has/had the best PvP experiences of any game to date.

[DJB]

There should be open PvP, but there should be stiff penalties for unjustified PvP. Basically, if a guild with there Galaxies class starship destroys a peaceful shuttle craft that crew will be hunted down by the rest of the federation. Upon it's destruction or capture that guild will be stripped of their vessel and imprisoned. A30 day real time penalty on those accounts and the ship will be gone forever. Even after the prison term they would have to start over from scratch. Yes, mutiny should be possible in order to stop a crazed captain.

Now the Klingons... hmmm, that's another story :) They should have weaker vessels, but lax penalties and easier justification of violence.

[Ion]

If they're smart, they'll do what Blizzard did with WoW and make PvP servers and PvE servers. So those that love to kill people can simply jump into a PvP server and kill anything they see while PvE gets to choose if they wanna be flagged for PvE. That way mostly everybody will be happy.

This would solve my biggest concern with PvP, which, admittedly, is a "setting" issue'

The Federation, at it's core, promotes the concept of "Playing Nice"

Based on what little we've been told so far, It seems that *every* player will be a member of the Federation. Attacking each other (or the Federation allowing it to go on) is sort of like having the Navy attacking the Coast Guard, while the President sits idly by, saying "Oh, well, boys will be boys"

It would require quite a bit of extra work in the art and writing department, but having a set of "Mirror Universe" servers would solve that problem nicely. While the Empire has a structure, it's very much "every man for himself" over there...

Plus, you could have a cool goatee.

[saber51]

my feelings:

there should be PVP
it must be meaningful and designed into the game from the beginning
there should be rewards to balance the risk/loss
there should be a PVP-free zones or servers for players that do not wish to PVP


ic casual players do PVP they should still be able to live long enough to feel that they contributed and have some measure of fun even with pure template PVPers around and not just killed a few seconds after ariving
smaller ships and support ships should have some ability to participate without being totally at the mercy of hostile forces like say if I wanted to run a medicle ship or a repair ship there should be methods or tactics in place where they can be effective and survivable.

I also like to mine and haul and trade commodities and explore and survey and sometimes I like to be able to play during times where I cannot have my full attention on the game like when doing house work or wrangling kids and such. I hope the game will have some established travel routes such as between regons kind of like getting on a plane or train or highway

[Commodore_Smith]

What about war game skirmishes between SF ships? they did it in TNG y not in STO. but pvp will be fine with SF vs Klingons.

[saber51]

The neutral zones should be dynamic. Different factions can conquer systems and incorporate them into their empires, so that borders shift over time.

Factions get benefits from having more systems (more quests to choose, material rewards, buffs).

The farther from your homeworld, the more difficult it should be to conquer a system. The closer, the easier it is to defend. This would make it difficult or impossible for a faction to completely take over; but a stronger faction could push the borders out a long way to "threaten" the space of a smaller one.

I do like the idea that player groups might be able to attack and invade planets and moons and maby some large astroids and do stuff like orbital bombardment, and droping assault troops.
different planetary bodies could have different uses and resources
one planet might grow wheat
another has dilithium
another might be only good for a stratigic outpost
barracks, factories, mining plants, planetary defencees and weapons

these planets could slowly shift ownership between fleet/guilds
there should be a few places that small groups or even single players might be able to raid or smuggle

[saber51]

The neutral zones should be dynamic. Different factions can conquer systems and incorporate them into their empires, so that borders shift over time.

Factions get benefits from having more systems (more quests to choose, material rewards, buffs).

The farther from your homeworld, the more difficult it should be to conquer a system. The closer, the easier it is to defend. This would make it difficult or impossible for a faction to completely take over; but a stronger faction could push the borders out a long way to "threaten" the space of a smaller one.

different areas could give some unique benefit or commodity valued in other parts of the galaxy thus stemulating the crafting, trade, and commodities.

[Jaxston]

Pvp should be in nuetral zone and unexplored space. The only safe place should be deep within your own factions region. I mean really what kind of game would this be if you are out exploring as a Federation player in undiscovered deep space and you run into a Klingon ship and you can't shoot at him? It would be a BIG lame game. I want to blast that Klingon to kingdom come....Period.

Was the enterprise protected by pve rules in the movies? NO it wasn't they HAD to deal with the situation. From what I hear most people want this game to be as real as possible...well running into an enemy ship and having to deal with him is as close to canon as you can get.

As for FFA PVP I say no. No way should you be able to fire upon another Federation vessel. The starter regions for each faction should not be allowed to be taken. However when a faction takes control of an open system by building space stations and such .... you should have to defend it.

:D

[Frederikkay]

There should be open PvP, but there should be stiff penalties for unjustified PvP. Basically, if a guild with there Galaxies class starship destroys a peaceful shuttle craft that crew will be hunted down by the rest of the federation. Upon it's destruction or capture that guild will be stripped of their vessel and imprisoned. A30 day real time penalty on those accounts and the ship will be gone forever. Even after the prison term they would have to start over from scratch. Yes, mutiny should be possible in order to stop a crazed captain.

Now the Klingons... hmmm, that's another story :) They should have weaker vessels, but lax penalties and easier justification of violence.

I have a thread that suggests a system of zones, flags or marks caried on ships and penalties for unjustified PvP very simular to what you suggest DBJ

The neutral zones should be dynamic. Different factions can conquer systems and incorporate them into their empires, so that borders shift over time.

Factions get benefits from having more systems (more quests to choose, material rewards, buffs).

The farther from your homeworld, the more difficult it should be to conquer a system. The closer, the easier it is to defend. This would make it difficult or impossible for a faction to completely take over; but a stronger faction could push the borders out a long way to "threaten" the space of a smaller one.

That idea to would work wel in my suggestion.

I do not want to steal a thread, but mainly try and centrelise the discussion about PvP.
this is a link to my thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=6069

Please dont see this as advertising, I do not want to undermine the OP adn stop the discussion about PvP in general here, but my thread is just an idea that is very simular to some ideas mentioned here.

[Evoq]

There better be PvP so I can gank all of you worthless carebears in my Bird of Prey right after you leave drydock.

[Father_Origin]

Based on cryptic's other games....

Here is what to expect:

There will be PvP and it will be optional based on location.

Explaination: Captains will have some say on where they operate from and specific
areas will be PvP enabled (neutral zone)

so, if you Don't want to do PvP, do not take assignment on the neutral zone.

COH and COV is very similar...there are pvp areas, if you don't want pvp, you don't go there.

Easy enuff.