View Full Version : STO may fix TNG/VOY discrepency...
Durakken
11-02-2009, 12:22 PM
The last episode of VOY suggests the UFP and Klingons are on brittle ground in 2405
The last episode of TNG suggests the UFP and Klingons are at war in 2395
STO supports VOY's future and rejects TNG's, but TNG doesn't state in any way the actual date of the future timeline. It states that it takes place 25 years after the Enterprise crew split up. The 2395 date was placed on there at the end of TNG, but we've been shown that the enterprise crew continues.
We can also say that the Future Enterprise in TNG isn't the Enterprise D but rather could be a ship of the same class renamed...If we assume that during STO's time ships can be named anything without strict regulations due to the influx of a lot more ships
Now if we assume both of these TNG's last episode's future isn't 2395 but closer to 2409 and this keeps both in the time line and fixes all problems that might have been a problem in the past... however that is if we assume that Enterprise crew splits up in 2384...funnily STO path to 2409 says this happens in 2385... If you consider human speech. That's well enough.
So... who's who in 2409?
Admiral Riker on the Enterprise?
Captain or Admiral Kim?
Lieutenant Paris (Tom and Be'lana's kid)
Captain Naomi Wildman?
Mavrixx
11-02-2009, 12:24 PM
The last episode of VOY suggests the UFP and Klingons are on brittle ground in 2405
The last episode of TNG suggests the UFP and Klingons are at war in 2395
STO supports VOY's future and rejects TNG's, but TNG doesn't state in any way the actual date of the future timeline. It states that it takes place 25 years after the Enterprise crew split up. The 2395 date was placed on there at the end of TNG, but we've been shown that the enterprise crew continues.
We can also say that the Future Enterprise in TNG isn't the Enterprise D but rather could be a ship of the same class renamed...If we assume that during STO's time ships can be named anything without strict regulations due to the influx of a lot more ships
Now if we assume both of these TNG's last episode's future isn't 2395 but closer to 2409 and this keeps both in the time line and fixes all problems that might have been a problem in the past... however that is if we assume that Enterprise crew splits up in 2384...funnily STO path to 2409 says this happens in 2385... If you consider human speech. That's well enough.
So... who's who in 2409?
Admiral Riker on the Enterprise?
Captain or Admiral Kim?
Lieutenant Paris (Tom and Be'lana's kid)
Captain Naomi Wildman?
Awesome thread.
Only thing i have to add is im pretty sure that the future enterprise had NCC-1701-D on it and what happened in Generations just shows that the future timeline can always be changed.
VanCaptain
11-02-2009, 12:25 PM
/facepalm
Time travel, its a pain in the neck if im honest but try to realise that, "that" particular future will not come about specifically becuase Janeway altered the timeline by changing Voyagers history. That was a boulder in the great life of continuality, unlike the new movie which was like a 20km asteroid. :p
Ghangi
11-02-2009, 12:28 PM
Awesome thread.
Only thing i have to add is im pretty sure that the future enterprise had NCC-1701-D on it and what happened in Generations just shows that the future timeline can always be changed.
yes the future is always in motion, as it has been explained many times. The simple fact of knowing about it changes it...
Borticus
11-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Think of the future, like the branches of a tree that is infinitely enormous. The present is the trunk. As you progress further down the branches, each decision and each event of chance cause a split in the timelines, fracturing reality into several different pieces. Progressing further & further down the limb, it becomes more and more difficult to even see the trunk, or retrace your steps, as branches cross branches, and the limbs become a massive tangle of opportunities and options.
The future is not set. Not even in fiction. What is, is what is.
rabidchocobo
11-02-2009, 12:39 PM
People are likely to make most of the same choices most of the time. But the simple decision to wear different socks could've caused some irritation to Riker, who then made a mistake at a critical moment, etc. Since Geordi's demonstrated how every decision may spawn a different universe where that choice is the only difference, it's possible that both these versions are more or less true. Kim could've been killed in battle before he was old enough to help Chakotay go back in time to save the frozen Voyager, and Miral Paris might've grown up to be a botanist after Janeway altered Voyager's past.
Silverspar
11-02-2009, 12:43 PM
I wish to make a few corrections on assumptions.
In the episode, All Good Things..., the Federation and Klingons were not at war, but they were no longer allies either. They Klingons had assaults and taken over the Romulan Star Empire (note the very eerie similarities in our own timeline, except the Klingon advance was halted). The 2405 sitution mirrored the All Good Things... scenario in this matter that the Federationa nd Klingons were still on shakey terms, STO is picking up on that point and everything has fallen apart and now we are pretty much on the verge of a fulls cale intergalactic war.
The timeline from All Good Things was an Anti-Time future created by Q and it ceased to be afterwards. Its an alternate reality.
Durakken
11-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Awesome thread.
Only thing i have to add is im pretty sure that the future enterprise had NCC-1701-D on it and what happened in Generations just shows that the future timeline can always be changed.
Riker, being an Admiral and a pretty well respected character could have requested to use the registry at some point.
As far as Janeway negating that future... The 29th century ship suggests that even though Voyager causes 4 time incursions they are not reversed...6 if you take into consideration the 2 after those episodes... They are cleaned up. This suggests that most of the time line is preserved save for those specific alterations. This implies that the general progression of time requires voyager to make it home and it doesn't matter when and the time line overall isn't effect by them making it home earlier or later according to the 29th century.
So in my opinion... the evidence points to the only important member of Voyager is Harry Kim OR perhaps it is something about just them getting back in someway that makes the difference... like what if the fact that voyager got back from the other side of the galaxy inspires the federation to win this war?
Also there might be minor differences in the timeline...I'd think work and Riker weren't on bad terms in the current time line...
Silverspar
11-02-2009, 01:02 PM
The timeline from All Good Things was an Anti-Time future created by Q and it ceased to be afterwards. Its an alternate reality.
The only thing Q created was the anti-time vortex itself. Everything else could of well happened, but as stated in the end of the show, Picard told everyone what to expect, so events have changed, though the course may still be similar.
The only thing Q created was the anti-time vortex itself. Everything else could of well happened, but as stated in the end of the show, Picard told everyone what to expect, so events have changed, though the course may still be similar.
That reality ceased to be. Or did you fail to notice the 3 nacelle Enterprise D flying around decades after it was destroyed in the *real* timeline? Any events proceeding along similar lines are coincidental and nothing more, as it was an *alternate* future.
A future that at one time could have been, but now cannot be, to put it differently.
Silverspar
11-02-2009, 01:07 PM
That reality ceased to be. Or did you fail to notice the 3 nacelle Enterprise D flying around decades after it was destroyed in the *real* timeline? Any events proceeding along similar lines are coincidental and nothing more, as it was an *alternate* future.
I hardly call events proceeding along coincidental if they are still mirroring exactly what happened in that episode.
I hardly call events proceeding along coincidental if they are still mirroring exactly what happened in that episode.
Yet, thats exactly what they are, canon wise. Because its impossible for them to be anything else. The anti-time future ceased to exist at the end of the finale.
Elta_and_Zletha
11-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Timeline!? This is no time to talk about time!! We don't have the time!!
*Zletha takes a swig of Andorian ale*
...What was I saying?
Silverspar
11-02-2009, 01:17 PM
Yet, thats exactly what they are, canon wise. Because its impossible for them to be anything else. The anti-time future ceased to exist at the end of the finale.
And yet, according to that theory, everything up to TNG and First Contact should of ceased to exist because Cochrane and many others did indeed have knowledge of the future from the Enterprise in that movie. Just because things aren't proceeding with every t crossed and i dotted doesn't meant hey still aren't on the same course. Coincidence means it just happened to happen that way, but so far, considering it's still following events outlined in both All Good Things... and Endgame, it seems pretty well that things are still on that course even if the stage is slightly different.
willriker09
11-02-2009, 01:27 PM
The timeline from All Good Things was an Anti-Time future created by Q and it ceased to be afterwards. Its an alternate reality.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. It is no more "real" than when Q brought the crew to the planet to battle pig men in revolutionary war uniforms and gave Riker Q-like powers. And if Star Trek has proven anything in regards to all the time travel mess each and every series has created, it is that the future is not set in stone until we get there.
Enjoy 2409.
Eclipse1987
11-02-2009, 01:40 PM
In All Good Things: it was a Q created trick and is generally viewed as a alternate timeline/reality that ceased to exist.
In Endgame: That timeline dosen't exist either because Janeway brought Voyager home early and averted, Tuvok's illness and 7's death.
in the laters case the fallout from Future Janeway's descion is still being felt in the Voy. relaunch series and current S.T. universe (although it is 'soft cannon' and might not be used in STO)
Eclipse1987
11-02-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm glad someone else noticed this. It is no more "real" than when Q brought the crew to the planet to battle pig men in revolutionary war uniforms and gave Riker Q-like powers. And if Star Trek has proven anything in regards to all the time travel mess each and every series has created, it is that the future is not set in stone until we get there.
Enjoy 2409.
Quoted for truth
rabidchocobo
11-02-2009, 02:14 PM
Timeline!? This is no time to talk about time!! We don't have the time!!
Ha! Good one!
_Pax_
11-02-2009, 02:15 PM
The last episode of TNG suggests the UFP and Klingons are at war in 2395
You mean, "All Good Things" ...?
That was only a POTENTIAL future, which was not guarantee dto come to pass. The very fact that Picard saw that future, means he can act to AVERT it. And indeed, the destruction of the Enterprise-D means, it has been averted already ... at least in part.
Which is to say "that future didn't actually happen", leaving VOY in fiorm and sole control of the timeline until that point.
crow11383
11-02-2009, 04:22 PM
I would hope that PIccard does not die a tired confused man. I also hope in the future we can't go warp 14, that annoyed me.
6Dragon6
11-02-2009, 04:25 PM
interesting very interesting
Vorus
11-02-2009, 04:26 PM
Tain and the others are correct. There is no "discrepancy" because the timelines you are referencing didn't represent the real future of the main timeline. They were just POSSIBLE futures that are no longer possible. They don't matter any more.
JesseH21
11-02-2009, 09:01 PM
ok, for those saying Admiral riker would request a galaxy class outfitted with the triple nacelle version from the TNG Finale and renaming it...
why would Starfleet let two ships have the same registry number active at the same time? It'd be too confusing, especially if the two ships ever met. and why would he go back to an older design and pretty much redesign it from the ground up? hes not an engineer.
I dont see that happening, thats just too big of a stretch just to get one ship from an alternate future around.