for anyone upset about not being in beta, its not all its cracked up to be

[spocksbeard]

i am NOT in beta, but i have a friend who is. he has NOT told me anything about the game, but he did tell me that their only testing 2 days a week right now, and only 2 hours at a time. what that means is that there are 168 hours in a week(24x7) and only 4 of them are availible to test. the other 164 hours it makes no difference whether your in beta or not, because you cant test. and on top of that, the days/times might not even work for your schedule or depending on where you live. so for anyone upset about not being in beta, its not all its cracked up to be.

[JesseH21]

its also only the first week of testing, and a bunch of the STO guys are at eurogamer. so its likely they could increase it when they all get back and get deeper into beta. after all, you want to gently break the servers in, not push the hard enough to crash right away >>

[Morgomir]

i am NOT in beta, but i have a friend who is. he has NOT told me anything about the game, but he did tell me that their only testing 2 days a week right now, and only 2 hours at a time. what that means is that there are 168 hours in a week(24x7) and only 4 of them are availible to test. the other 164 hours it makes no difference whether your in beta or not, because you cant test. and on top of that, the days/times might not even work for your schedule or depending on where you live. so for anyone upset about not being in beta, its not all its cracked up to be.

I am glad im not in right now, if I was I would be angry cause chances are those two hours the open for testing would be at bad times when im not at home or dont have time for it.

[ryuto]

It's likely to continue like that, its what they did with CO so Cryptic seems to feel that 2 days of testing are enough. Every now and then they'll extend it to 24 hours for one day but it's highly unlikely they'll ever start doing 24/7 testing.

[Commander_Nate]

Funny, myself and others were called trolls and/or criticized for making comments about how happy we were to not be in Beta for some of the very same reasons.

[Kaybok]

Has anyone posted an approximation of the CO beta testing schedule? That would be interesting to look at.

[BorakRedBlade]

A lot of beta's are like that for the closed beta. Have scheduled times. Wednesdays, fridays for example 2-4 hours each time. Sometimes they have a full weekend if they want to test something throughly.

It's nothing new. Don't expect the game to be up 24 hours until the open beta/launch.

CO was wednesdays and fridays for 4 hours (or was it 5. I forget) They had a few weekend long sessions but not more than 4 of them I think. Not until open beta.

[Elta_and_Zletha]

I don't think people care what the beta schedual is, they just want IN.

Somehow, just having the staus of being accepted into beta holds more value than not being able to play because of time restraints.

o_O

[BaakCha]

I don't think people care what the beta schedual is, they just want IN.

Somehow, just having the staus of being accepted into beta holds more value than not being able to play because of time restraints.

o_O

^this exactly.

If I'm in beta and you aren't, I'm better than you. If you're in beta and I'm not, I'm suing. :)

[Commander_Nate]

^this exactly.

If I'm in beta and you aren't, I'm better than you. If you're in beta and I'm not, I'm suing. :)

Good thing your opinion and anyone elses for that matter is inferior to mine. :cool:

[IceWind]

its also only the first week of testing, and a bunch of the STO guys are at eurogamer. so its likely they could increase it when they all get back and get deeper into beta. after all, you want to gently break the servers in, not push the hard enough to crash right away >>

Yes you do. The sooner the testers can crash the server, the sooner the Devs can investigate the cause and fix it... Cause there ain't going to be no gentle breaking in NOTHIN' on launch day ;)

[HittingSmoke]

Yes you do. The sooner the testers can crash the server, the sooner the Devs can investigate the cause and fix it... Cause there ain't going to be no gentle breaking in NOTHIN' on launch day ;)

What you just described was OPEN BETA. Open beta hasn't started yet.

I'm SO sick of threads like these full of posts from people who don't understand betas, haven't read the sticky on the subject and have obviously never played in one.

Personally, if I was a dev I would blacklist every IP that had one of these posts coming from it for the duration of beta.

[Elta_and_Zletha]

Personally, if I was a dev I would blacklist every IP that had one of these posts coming from it for the duration of beta.

I take it you didn't get into beta yet, either? lol


kidding kidding =P

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Personally, if I was a dev I would blacklist every IP that had one of these posts coming from it for the duration of beta.

Thankfully, you are not a Dev. As irritating as misconceptions can be, this is obviously going to be some people's first MMO, and likewise their first beta.

[dantivirus]

Patience and keep checking that email. You may get a key at any time. No reason to get upset over it. Do you want a game that is working near bug free or do you want one rushed to open beta slots?

[Kaybok]

I don't think people care what the beta schedual is, they just want IN.

Somehow, just having the staus of being accepted into beta holds more value than not being able to play because of time restraints.

o_O

So... your antennae wouldn't perk up if you could get a sneak peek at the Target CCU schedule? :p

[thefrayl]

Patience and keep checking that email. You may get a key at any time. No reason to get upset over it. Do you want a game that is working near bug free or do you want one rushed to open beta slots?

? .... *reads thread one more time* ...What exactly are you replying to? :confused:

And I'm not suprised by this "limited" schedule at all. It hasn't even been going for a week yet, and as many have stated already, this is very different from an open beta. This is a common practice to have scarce testing sessions that focus on a specific aspect of the game.

Doesn't make it any less appetizing for me, though. :p

[gmbosko1]

It won't be bug free on release, and I'm hoping they didn't just invite people from the forum...

...a game such as this is pretty risky (Sci-Fi MMO) so it will need a thorough washing over, with dedicated testers. Most forum-ites tend to not do so hot...we talk and we talk, but we don't play domjot well.

[nobadee]

Funny, myself and others were called trolls and/or criticized for making comments about how happy we were to not be in Beta for some of the very same reasons.

TROLL!!! lol ;)

I've done many beta's. Not really that big a deal; which is why I'm content waiting till launch to see it. The servers are down a lot and the game play is extremely unstable. It's not like you are going to actually be immersing yourself into the game. The first time they wipe the servers and you loose your characters you will be like, "aww fail". lol Then they do it again and again.

[HittingSmoke]

Thankfully, you are not a Dev. As irritating as misconceptions can be, this is obviously going to be some people's first MMO, and likewise their first beta.

If people won't take the initiative to learn what a beta is and the etiquette involved then I don't think they should be testers. If you're complaining about quality of play in a game that's being beta tested then you shouldn't have been let in in the first place.

[Desterion]

Obviously testing with CO with only a couple hours a week where only a small fraction of the testers could actually do, didn't work out so well as it reportedly had a horrible release. If they were smart, they'd have a pool of general testers then a pool of focused testers for what the devs want to stress test. If there isn't general testing, players find tons of bugs that should have been fixed, but were never found because nobody thought it was important enough to test.

[Elta_and_Zletha]

So... your antennae wouldn't perk up if you could get a sneak peek at the Target CCU schedule? :p

*Antennae perk up*

Huzuh...whaa? Target schedule? :eek:

[thefrayl]

If people won't take the initiative to learn what a beta is and the etiquette involved then I don't think they should be testers. If you're complaining about quality of play in a game that's being beta tested then you shouldn't have been let in in the first place.

I agree. Everyone who wants in the beta to play the game is barking up the wrong tree, as far as I'm concerned. I mean sure, playing the game is obviously a big part of beta testing, but theres alot more to it than most people realize.

I'm curious as to how many threads have already popped up in the beta forums containing furious rants about how awful the game runs and how buggy it is. It would be a pleasant suprise if there were none to speak of, but somehow I doubt it. :D

[Kaybok]

*Antennae perk up*

Huzuh...whaa? Target schedule? :eek:

Hehe... Target Concurrent User schedule... if you had a peek you could tell us when the invites go out and the ramp-up over time. ;)

[jackel1981]

I dont think its fair the amount of people that lecture others here about beta not being about playing the game. I can only speak for myself but im really looking forward to being in beta just so I can feal more involved with things. I wouldnt presume to know what other peoples motives are.

[Corehaven22]

Hey, its Cryptics closed beta and they can do what they want, but why such a small window of activity? Only 2 days a week and only for a few hours? Closed beta or not that just doesnt make any sense at all to me.

Surely it would be more advantageous to allow testers access to the game at least a little more than that. How are beta testers even supposed to find a fraction of the bugs in that small amount of time?

Furthermore, if the game really is being released in Feb. (which by no means is necessarily true), shouldnt they be testing as often and as diligently as possible. With testing only going on for around 8 hours a week I fail to even see the point of beta testing at all.

Also, Im not complaining. I didnt even sign up for beta. So I wont be getting in no mater what. I have no interest in beta testing STO myself.

[thefrayl]

I dont think its fair the amount of people that lecture others here about beta not being about playing the game. I can only speak for myself but im really looking forward to being in beta just so I can feal more involved with things. I wouldnt presume to know what other peoples motives are.

...and neither would I, but there will be many people who misintepret the closed beta as a chance to merely play the game first. It's not really their fault, they just don't know what to expect with these things. As the Nagus pointed out previously in this thread, it is inevitable that many people excited about STO who signed up will be new to beta testing and/or MMOs altogether.

No one is getting lectured. I think it's good to know what youre getting yourself into. The people that expect nothing but fun and games out of beta are in for a disappointment.

[Khanor]

I wouldnt read too much into this. Testing always starts slow then ramps up over time as server issuses and glitches are identified and corrected. If it's still like this a month from now THEN we'll have cause to worry and complain.

For now however the best thing would be to give them a few weeks to get things settled a bit. A lot of us have been waiting a long time for this game, waiting a little longer isnt going to hurt anyone.

[knight1b]

Some might say its not all its cracked up to be. Others enjoy what closed beta is and whats involved.

[runrhino06]

I don't think people care what the beta schedual is, they just want IN.

Somehow, just having the staus of being accepted into beta holds more value than not being able to play because of time restraints.

o_O

I totally AGREE! Right now, it would be the fact that I would be in beta. Sure I'm going to test the game but I definitely want to be in playing the content and experiencing the mechanics. That's the excitement... Only having the server up for 2-4 hours at a time, 2 days a week is nothing. That's 2-4 hours, 2 times a week that I'll be playing the game verse none at all!!

[kkmccall]

I guess it would also depend on which 2 - 4 hours they mean, & maybe that's why they used the term Demographics.

For example, if testing was at 'peak' PDT (around 7pm - 9pm) that's 3am - 5am here in the UK, which, in practice, would rule out any EU Testers.

Not saying that is the time, but it certainly bears thinking about.

[spocksbeard]

I guess it would also depend on which 2 - 4 hours they mean,

Its 2, not 2-4. Just 2.

[Desterion]

The bigger the expectations, the harder the fall is.

[ddredar]

Hey, its Cryptics closed beta and they can do what they want, but why such a small window of activity? Only 2 days a week and only for a few hours? Closed beta or not that just doesnt make any sense at all to me.



The limited time allows them to get a few bug reports. They then work furiously to fix those few bugs. Then after the next short server up time, they look to be sure the same bugs don't show up again, and get new bug reports to furiously work on.

This method helps to eliminate tons of repeat reports that could slow down the fix process.

[LordDave]

I don't think people care what the beta schedual is, they just want IN.

Somehow, just having the status of being accepted into beta holds more value than not being able to play because of time restraints.

o_O

Humans are weird.
Though I think it's the "I get secret info that's going to be so awesome". They set their expectations up extremely high and then... Pop.

[buzz12]

Just two days. I would go :eek::eek: crazy. I understand I Need my STO CRACK. I NEED it bad MAN. just give it too me.
must wait. grrr its killling me. ohhhh i watch star trek first contact that will calm my nerves. LOL

[ddredar]

Just two days. I would go :eek::eek: crazy. I understand I Need my STO CRACK. I NEED it bad MAN. just give it too me.
must wait. grrr its killling me. ohhhh i watch star trek first contact that will calm my nerves. LOL

Is there a help group for that????? :eek:

[gair22]

Day 1, make my avatar, Day 2 play the tutorial. Day 3, reroll Klingon, Day 4, server wipe, back to Day 1.

That is what I anticipate my first 2 weeks would be, but at least it is focusing on the tutorial that I keep hearing so much about lol.

[Vaercolac]

Hey, its Cryptics closed beta and they can do what they want, but why such a small window of activity? Only 2 days a week and only for a few hours? Closed beta or not that just doesnt make any sense at all to me.
That's been the case with the closed betas I've been involved with in the past. I'm not all tech savvy or anything, but I suspect the devs need time not only to review bug reports, but to analyze whatever info their data mining tools have dug up, rip code apart and put it back together, writing and internally testing new content before even putting it on the beta servers, etc., etc.

Over time, the testing windows become more frequent and longer as fundamental problems are caught and addressed, but early stages are pretty limited.

Surely it would be more advantageous to allow testers access to the game at least a little more than that. How are beta testers even supposed to find a fraction of the bugs in that small amount of time?
Early on, many bugs are big, ugly, and hard to miss. There are sometimes also targeted sessions, where the devs ask testers to concentrate on specific aspects of the game - so while the time is short, the testers are all focused on one narrow part, resulting in a much deeper review.

Furthermore, if the game really is being released in Feb. (which by no means is necessarily true), shouldnt they be testing as often and as diligently as possible. With testing only going on for around 8 hours a week I fail to even see the point of beta testing at all.
I suspect Cryptic is banking on the engine testing done for Champions Online. If the engine doesn't groan too much under the weight of the STO-specific implementations, they may be able to ramp up a lot faster than if they were starting with a brand new engine.

[kkmccall]

Humans are weird.
Though I think it's the "I get secret info that's going to be so awesome". They set their expectations up extremely high and then... Pop.



I think some of it is 'Bragging Rights'. I don't think I have yet been in a single MMO that someone hasn't said "Well, I've been here since Beta!" :eek:

[BaakCha]

Day 1, make my avatar, Day 2 play the tutorial. Day 3, reroll Klingon, Day 4, server wipe, back to Day 1.


Definitely this!

Although I anticipate the avatar making process to take up more than just the first 2 hours. That's what happened on CO. I barely got finished rolling my first toon and managed to get a solid 3-4 minutes of gameplay. :P

[Sandmanjw]

Hope they go to much longer sessions if not 23/7 soon.

Just do not think you can do much with such restrictive times to test, no matter how you direct it.

Heck i spent more than 2 hours the first time in CO just creating my first character. People have been speculating on the time to max lvl here on boards, and if it is close to 100 hours as some think, other than them artificially lvling people they may well never get people playing through the whole game start to finish as it would be on release

As i said before, yes targeted testing is needed at times, but NOTHING beats letting people play the game start to finish as it would be in release to find not only bugs but how well or poorly the leveling experience is. Like in is it fun? Are there times you can not find missions to do? And so many other things that makes games fun or not.

[echrei]

Just two days. I would go :eek::eek: crazy. I understand I Need my STO CRACK. I NEED it bad MAN. just give it too me.
must wait. grrr its killling me. ohhhh i watch star trek first contact that will calm my nerves. LOL

Wow, addiction without even a taste of it, powerful stuff.

[Sorbek]

Hope they go to much longer sessions if not 23/7 soon.

Just do not think you can do much with such restrictive times to test, no matter how you direct it.

Heck i spent more than 2 hours the first time in CO just creating my first character. People have been speculating on the time to max lvl here on boards, and if it is close to 100 hours as some think, other than them artificially lvling people they may well never get people playing through the whole game start to finish as it would be on release


It won't be anywhere near 100 hours, heck people on CO that had early access were maxed out before the game went live. That is less than 48 hours.

Cryptic isn't making a deep and interactive game here its making a single player game that can be made even easier by doing it with friends. Just like CO is. It doesn't require a group at all if you know how to stack and combine your powers.

Even though they say they are doing it to focus on specific things I suspect its more they don't want people to see just how easy it really is to finish the main content in the game.

[Zandtar]

I think some of it is 'Bragging Rights'. I don't think I have yet been in a single MMO that someone hasn't said "Well, I've been here since Beta!" :eek:

True. But I've also been in enough MMO's to know if someone has to start something off with that qualification, the rest of their post pretty much turns into Charlie Brown adult-speak. :)

[Huutini]

Well,

a) That's nice of you to tell the others, hopefully it will call some of them, also as far as I know, ost of them wouldn't notice before they se it for themselves. (Reminds me of the mass-Closed Beta in CO, where people threatened to sue Cryptic for them not having the game up 24/7!!)

b) It's what most people here tell other people for days, 'cause CO had playtimes too. Yet - no one seems to get, believe it, or care.

c)
he has NOT told me anything about the game, but he did tell me that...
Well, if it is true and he really got this informations out of the Beta, he might probably already have broken the NDA with it. 'cause if I remember the CO-NDA correctly, you were not allowed to tell people ANYTHING beta-related. Not about the game, the schedules, the topics from beta forums, nothing.

[CaptainRAVE]

i am NOT in beta, but i have a friend who is. he has NOT told me anything about the game, but he did tell me that their only testing 2 days a week right now, and only 2 hours at a time. what that means is that there are 168 hours in a week(24x7) and only 4 of them are availible to test. the other 164 hours it makes no difference whether your in beta or not, because you cant test. and on top of that, the days/times might not even work for your schedule or depending on where you live. so for anyone upset about not being in beta, its not all its cracked up to be.

That is standard. It will be increased as the weeks go on. I would still like just an hour with the game :)

[MankuMan]

Beta testing in CO was only limited times, dut towards the end test servers went up for 24 hours. just in time for Open Beta

Beta testing is testing then exploring the results from the tests, so it makes sence that servers should only be up for limited times

[CaptainRAVE]

Beta testing in CO was only limited times, dut towards the end test servers went up for 24 hours. just in time for Open Beta

Beta testing is testing then exploring the results from the tests, so it makes sence that servers should only be up for limited times

Yes, exactly. It started just about 4 hours a week. Towards the end we had full weekends of testing. This is the way most beta tests go.

[Rowr]

I just think they might not have found everything they could have with such a limited testing schedule. Yes it's good to focus in on specific areas and all that, but it's also good to iron out the overall gameplay and progression. Someone who is advancing 'too fast' could be considered just as much a 'bug' as finding an exploit or a server crash issue too.

So yes while beta IS about finding and squashing bugs, actually 'playing' the game I consider to be JUST as important as squashing bugs.

I"ve been in lots of closed betas, and I have never seen one with quite as restrictive a testing schedule as Cryptic's in CO's, and now it seems the same with STO. Oh well. Hopefully if I get in, I will try to maximize that time.

But really 2 hours is just a little too short... I mean you're just getting into whatever it is your testing, and then bam, time's up. Have you really found anything? Probably not.

Oh well! :)

[MankuMan]

But really 2 hours is just a little too short... I mean you're just getting into whatever it is your testing, and then bam, time's up. Have you really found anything? Probably not.

Oh well! :)

I think you have two much time on your hands i can only mange to play for two hours a time in one night the real life thing gets in the way. :(

[CaptainRAVE]

I"ve been in lots of closed betas, and I have never seen one with quite as restrictive a testing schedule as Cryptic's in CO's, and now it seems the same with STO. Oh well. Hopefully if I get in, I will try to maximize that time.

But really 2 hours is just a little too short... I mean you're just getting into whatever it is your testing, and then bam, time's up. Have you really found anything? Probably not.

Oh well! :)

Of course that was the problem with CO's beta. Too little time and too few people reaching the high level content. Hence it is still very bugged. While the time will be increased I doubt it will be enough. Of course STO is looking more polished than CO did at this time (from the videos, I am not in the beta yet). Plus, many of the bugs in CO's engine have been fixed in STO. So fingers crossed!

[aircool]

I read this article this morning in the Daily Telegraph.


Closed Beta in 'Just like Closed Beta' Shocker! (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=30504)

[sleeplessone]

Im surprised they have not posted a schedule for the first phase of closed beta......


Although NCSoft and Aion had a different closed beta plans where pre-order customers got into their closed beta weekends which was a full 2 days for CB and i think it was for around 5-6 weekends followed by Open beta , then by pre-select (create characters few days before headstart and some others), then the headstart ran before release and live status. These dates for Aion closed beta and the PDT times where posted on the main website as well as the Beta forums at the time as i was part of it due to my Aion pre-order.

There was probbaly behind closed doors beta for Aion as well similar to the STO CB now and i hope there will be in the new PR cycle for STO some more information about the Beta schedule and just when the dates and times of the testing happens .... and a provisional Closed beta end date for the last weekend / few days of testing since its not hard to publish.

[Vaercolac]

I just think they might not have found everything they could have with such a limited testing schedule. Yes it's good to focus in on specific areas and all that, but it's also good to iron out the overall gameplay and progression. Someone who is advancing 'too fast' could be considered just as much a 'bug' as finding an exploit or a server crash issue too.
That's a good point, and AFAIC that's exactly what happened in CO. However, I think that's more a byproduct of rushing the game to release. CO could have used another solid week of beta, but I'm not convinced that the particular issue you bring up would or could have been caught early in closed beta, given how much the game had apparently changed.

One thing at a time - slow and sure wins the race.

I"ve been in lots of closed betas, and I have never seen one with quite as restrictive a testing schedule as Cryptic's in CO's, and now it seems the same with STO. Oh well. Hopefully if I get in, I will try to maximize that time.
Different experiences, then. The CB schedule for CO struck me as par for the course - what raised my shaggy eyebrows was the fact that open beta was so short... Hoping they can manage at least a couple weeks of OB for this game - without restricting it by making you go through a third-party, subscribe-to-download service :mad:

[Vaercolac]

True. But I've also been in enough MMO's to know if someone has to start something off with that qualification, the rest of their post pretty much turns into Charlie Brown adult-speak. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUyLwXhqlWU

[Mehuge]

This is par for the course for an early closed beta.

I can remember:


Sitting in IRC with the 10 other people in beta at the start of Ryzom beta waiting for the servers to come up.

Being one of 3 people on the server (in our faction at least) in Warhammer because the lower tiered zones crashed and kicked everyone off friday night. Only Tier 3 was up and there were only 3 people in it. Devs had gone home for the weekend.

Waiting 6 weeks for beta to reopen after it was shut down while they had a rethink about content and carrears based on tester feedback (warhammer again)

Fury Alpha Test weekends, that were about once every 4 weeks. A Loooong wait between tests.


Interruptions are many, as will be character wipes. If you get stuck for example, often it means deleting your character and starting again.

If your looking to preview the game, early closed beta is not for you, better waiting until near the end of closed beta.

[CaptainRAVE]

That's a good point, and AFAIC that's exactly what happened in CO. However, I think that's more a byproduct of rushing the game to release. CO could have used another solid week of beta, but I'm not convinced that the particular issue you bring up would or could have been caught early in closed beta, given how much the game had apparently changed.

CO needed a good MONTH in closed beta. But eventually, you just have to say that it is as good as it is going to get, and release the game. Far from ideal, but then development of such a game is very expensive. And you can understand Atari wanting the game out ASAP.

[aircool]

Yep, the title of this post is misleading. Closed beta is nothing like open beta, which is essentially one big stress test whilst they work on the final release code and then the first round of patches once the game has gone gold.

[FTWinston]

I imagine this has been asked many times (though I haven't found it) and I imagine no answer can be given, except based on the CO beta - does anyone know what time of day these 2 hour tests will occur at, roughly?
Cos unless I'm mistaken, cryptic are located on the west coast of the USA, and if testing is at a time to suit them, it could well be in the middle of the night for european gamers.

I can forsee much comlaining from euro gamers who get into beta, only to discover that testing is at (say) 3-5am. Not that there's any way around this, except perhaps by (widely) varying the testing times, but I can see people feeling justifiably annoyed if they do get in and are unable to join the tests because of this.

[fritos12]

Patience and keep checking that email. You may get a key at any time. No reason to get upset over it. Do you want a game that is working near bug free or do you want one rushed to open beta slots?

It wont matter its going to get rushed any how I exspect a feb 2nd launch so ob to start shortly after new years.

[STO_NPG]

Isn't it against NDA to admit you are in closed beta?

[Huutini]

Isn't it against NDA to admit you are in closed beta?

Nope.

But pretty much everything else is... :)

[NyQuil]

If people won't take the initiative to learn what a beta is and the etiquette involved then I don't think they should be testers. If you're complaining about quality of play in a game that's being beta tested then you shouldn't have been let in in the first place.

Thankfully we don't live and die by your rules. The arrogance of you L33TS is astounding. Some of us don't have the time to sit around learning about what a BETA is all about and we'll take the time if we're accepted. Doesn't make the tester any less useful. This isn't life or death, it's a frakkin BETA. Chill.