6 Months Until STO Launch: Still no Econ/Crafting?

[Skrim72]

I was extremely happy when news that Cryptic received the IP, as I have utmost confidence in their development abilities. With less than 6 moths till launch (Assuming late Q1) I find myself concerned about their lack of information regarding crafting and economy.

To date all crafting and economy questions have been summarily deflected. (A natural course of any PR cycle) However not with the same zeal as Klingon or PvP questions. I spent last night re-watching video interviews about STO. The top questions deflected were PvP, Klingons, and release date. Which were all deflected with the same zeal suggesting -We have something great, just can’t tell you. This zeal was not apparent with regards to economy/crafting. (example: UfragTV Pax09) If I was a gambling man… which I am, I’d assume there really hasn’t been much progress on the economy/crafting side.

I recall one interview that mentioned the economy will defiantly be seeded, and HyorD included the following in his sticky “Everything we know about STO”

“Economy and crafting:
· Trade will be flowing within the various factions and between them; the players will be "expediting this".
· You will be competing for resources more than outright fighting other players for them. [LVWc]”

Anxious as I am to also find out more about Klingons, Cryptic’s past projects and development abilities are strong enough where I’m not concerned about Klingons, confident they will be diverse and engaging. By the same token I’m less confident about STO’s economy and crafting side. I think it’s fair to say Cryptic’s CoX games, great as they were, took crating and economy as an afterthought.

Can we look forward to an economy like Eve, or PotBS? An MMO where the economy is actually part of the game. Or are we only going so far as games like Matrix Online and I shudder to admit, CoH? Personally I would much rather see an economy that is part of the game, not just side project to do with surplus loot.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[sir_theodorik]

They are intentionall withholding this information until the marketing geniuses say the tiem is right. Hype it too early and their ideas could be stolen.

I am eager too, don't get me wrong.

[Skrim72]

I fully understand the balancing required between information availability and hype. But there is already great information out on everything that has been deflected save for the economy/crafting. Several Klingon ships with pic’s and videos. A number of confirmed descriptions of PvP battlegrounds, patrol missions, and the neutral zone. We even recently got what appears to be a solid release date.

With all the information available already especially considering all the information on topics that were previously deflected. I guess I’m just getting conserned nothing of substance was done with the economy/crafting side. With seemingly only 4 months till launch and still no details.

[Swordopolis]

They are intentionall withholding this information until the marketing geniuses say the tiem is right. Hype it too early and their ideas could be stolen.

I had never thought of it this way before, but it seems to be a more than valid point.

[Resistance]

Star Trek is more about exploration/doing 'missions'/episodes. Star Trek was never focused around crafting or economy. Sure you would have mention of it, but nothing substantial. There in no way should be an economy or crafting system in Star Trek that is a large part of the game. Unless they have a future expansion that includes the Ferengi.

[Levry]

I don't think we are going to be seeing a large player economy. I think mostly merit will allow player to acquire (replicate) items.

Going off of Rodenberry's version of the future, not the Ferengi rules of acquisition. But this is just my opinion. I don't recall a big economy in COH or COV either.

[power123]

Can we look forward to an economy like Eve, or PotBS? An MMO where the economy is actually part of the game. Or are we only going so far as games like Matrix Online and I shudder to admit, CoH? Personally I would much rather see an economy that is part of the game, not just side project to do with surplus loot. .

isn't that the point dumping surplus loot at a higher price than you get at a vendor?

[MankuMan]

Economy in STO i though the federation had no currency? this should be interesting.

[porksbro]

Ferengi rules of acquisition has to be one of my fav things in the startrack uni. to leave it out would be a very bad idea. crafting of any kind would almost be worth less if there is no way to make profit. why fight over a mine when you will not make profits after taking it. you can just go off and find a new one make just what you need for what ever and move on. i think using the Ferengi rules of acquisition will add more to the game then any quest you can think of.

p.s. i am a bad speller sorry

[Sandmanjw]

They are intentionall withholding this information until the marketing geniuses say the tiem is right. Hype it too early and their ideas could be stolen.

I am eager too, don't get me wrong.

Heh, i just got a laugh at this.

It never fails to amaze me how peoples hopes and expectation keep them going.

Not really picking on you personally, Just i have been in so many game betas that had either the devs, or fans or both, saying how just wait till launch, then you will see the true game. And lo, launch comes and we see exactly the same game as what people see in Beta's.

I have not seen whats available, so i can not say one way or the other. But Thinking they are hiding something so it does not get stolen, or for a big PR push, people may be heading for a huge fall in their expectations.

Guess all i am saying is do not expect some great system, if they had one we would of been teased about it or something along the line. Dev's love to talk about the great things they do and the PR Flacks are even worse.

The devs have talked a lot about the space combat, we all see the space combat in the Trailers, and the other PR events. SO we can trust that is going to be pretty good. Other than that i have very minimal expectations on the rest.

[Desterion]

Heh, i just got a laugh at this.

It never fails to amaze me how peoples hopes and expectation keep them going.

Not really picking on you personally, Just i have been in so many game betas that had either the devs, or fans or both, saying how just wait till launch, then you will see the true game. And lo, launch comes and we see exactly the same game as what people see in Beta's.

I have not seen whats available, so i can not say one way or the other. But Thinking they are hiding something so it does not get stolen, or for a big PR push, people may be heading for a huge fall in their expectations.

Guess all i am saying is do not expect some great system, if they had one we would of been teased about it or something along the line. Dev's love to talk about the great things they do and the PR Flacks are even worse.

The devs have talked a lot about the space combat, we all see the space combat in the Trailers, and the other PR events. SO we can trust that is going to be pretty good. Other than that i have very minimal expectations on the rest.

finally somebody that understands. If a company is hiding something from you, it's not because of a special PR campaign, that's just a lousy excuse for we have no idea what we're going to do about that. MMO companies love to show off more than anything. If they aren't parading something around, that means it's far from a presentable state. Every day that's been going by lately, my expectations have been dropping because of their amazing and foolproof "PR campaign". I was really excited not all too long ago, but once they started completely avoiding any and all questions regarding klingons, crafting and pvp i began to realize Cryptic is like any other MMO company. They try to sweep under the rug what they don't have any confidence in.

[Dext]

I was extremely happy when news that Cryptic received the IP, as I have utmost confidence in their development abilities. With less than 6 moths till launch (Assuming late Q1) I find myself concerned about their lack of information regarding crafting and economy.

To date all crafting and economy questions have been summarily deflected. (A natural course of any PR cycle) However not with the same zeal as Klingon or PvP questions. I spent last night re-watching video interviews about STO. The top questions deflected were PvP, Klingons, and release date. Which were all deflected with the same zeal suggesting -We have something great, just can’t tell you. This zeal was not apparent with regards to economy/crafting. (example: UfragTV Pax09) If I was a gambling man… which I am, I’d assume there really hasn’t been much progress on the economy/crafting side.

I recall one interview that mentioned the economy will defiantly be seeded, and HyorD included the following in his sticky “Everything we know about STO”

“Economy and crafting:
· Trade will be flowing within the various factions and between them; the players will be "expediting this".
· You will be competing for resources more than outright fighting other players for them. [LVWc]”

Anxious as I am to also find out more about Klingons, Cryptic’s past projects and development abilities are strong enough where I’m not concerned about Klingons, confident they will be diverse and engaging. By the same token I’m less confident about STO’s economy and crafting side. I think it’s fair to say Cryptic’s CoX games, great as they were, took crating and economy as an afterthought.

Can we look forward to an economy like Eve, or PotBS? An MMO where the economy is actually part of the game. Or are we only going so far as games like Matrix Online and I shudder to admit, CoH? Personally I would much rather see an economy that is part of the game, not just side project to do with surplus loot.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

They have time an they will talk about it when there ready.

[ngille]

Unless I'm mistaken, most mmo's don't talk much about crafting and economy until really close to launch. Don't get me wrong, I'm as anxious as you are to know all I can about the game (pvp as well) but either we will have a good crafting system/economy or we won't but put me in the catagory of those that do!

[Desterion]

They have time an they will talk about it when there ready.

um, release is in Feb. By the time they talk about it, it's going to be WAY too late to change anything. I'm getting the feeling that cryptic doesn't actually want feedback on anything, they just want people to see the finished product of their vision. That's basically, what drove warhammer online into a very early grave.

[Corehaven22]

I was extremely happy when news that Cryptic received the IP, as I have utmost confidence in their development abilities.

I cant get over how many times I see this stuff on the forums.

How can you have the "utmost confidence" in Cryptics development abilities?

I mean, an opinion is never really wrong, and I respect yours, but they've only ever made two friggin games! That were basically the same with a few differences. So one game, and then another game done in a slightly different way but basically the same. Which is like......one game. Ever.

And It was okay. Not fantastic. Or great. Or even pretty good. :rolleyes:

Its just when people say stuff like "Cryptic makes really good games" or "Cryptic is a really good developer" it makes it sound like they're Bioware, or Bethesda, or Blizzard. As if Cryptic has made a bunch of good games. Which they havent. They've made one game. And then another one that was a clone of the first one.

[ngille]

um, release is in Feb. By the time they talk about it, it's going to be WAY too late to change anything. I'm getting the feeling that cryptic doesn't actually want feedback on anything, they just want people to see the finished product of their vision. That's basically, what drove warhammer online into a very early grave.

As far as game companies go they've been pretty decent about listening to us so far....... Granted I don't think beta is going to be as important to them as it is to other mmo's strictly going by how folks are getting invited but that's my personal opinion and doesn't change how i view cryptic as a company.

A saving grace imo is that most of the team (according to press releases and whatnot) are trekkies and they are gamers so chances are, the feedback they are getting is in house and just as good/bad as what they'll get from us. Would I like them to listen to us more, darned tootin' but I'm going to pre-order/play the game regardless and if I don't like it, there's always the new star WARS mmo coming out ;)

[Desterion]

I cant get over how many times I see this stuff on the forums.

How can you have the "utmost confidence" in Cryptics development abilities?

I mean, an opinion is never really wrong, and I respect yours, but they've only ever made two friggin games! That were basically the same with a few differences. So one game, and then another game done in a slightly different way but basically the same. Which is like......one game. Ever.

And It was okay. Not fantastic. Or great. Or even pretty good. :rolleyes:

Its just when people say stuff like "Cryptic makes really good games" or "Cryptic is a really good developer" it makes it sound like they're Bioware, or Bethesda, or Blizzard. As if Cryptic has made a bunch of good games. Which they havent. They've made one game. And then another one that was a clone of the first one.

Bioware is a company you can have utmost confidence in, so is Blizzard. I played CoH when it was released, and I was not very impressed beyond character creation and an explorable city. Champions online really did look like CoH 2. The massive lack of information and a rushed production period don't give me utmost confidence in Cryptic. It gives me wary skepticism.

[Cormoran]

I think if they do it like CO they can please people who want crating and an economy AND people who don't want crafting and an economy.

CO has this ingenius idea of giving you crafting without anything actually worth crafting and giving you an economy with nothing worth buying or selling. It's like you get those features but you don't, thereby making both camps happy! :p

[Skrim72]

At the risk of stereotyping myself, there are a group of friends and I who are all gamers and Star Trek fans. Of our group there are two engineers, one programmer, one mathematician, and one doctor. Granted Jim (The doctor) is kinda the odd man in this group his family are all engineers and CAD operators. One could argue we are stereotypical Trekies.

The Star Trek universe has published books full of schematics on their imaginary technology. Every TV series was heavily steeped in engineering, not just the shows engineers, but their whole crew. Something about Star Trek attracts technical minded fans. It just seems like a waste that nothing is being said to attract that demographic (potential customers) to STO.

[bradley1701]

Listen to yourself..........6 MONTHS..........be patient!!! That is a lot of marketing time...what would be the point in giving us all of the information today. We hear about everything today and we'll just forget about it all or have little interest by the time of release...which is when they want the most interest.

[Skrim72]

I cant get over how many times I see this stuff on the forums.

How can you have the "utmost confidence" in Cryptics development abilities?

I mean, an opinion is never really wrong, and I respect yours, but they've only ever made two friggin games! That were basically the same with a few differences. So one game, and then another game done in a slightly different way but basically the same. Which is like......one game. Ever.

And It was okay. Not fantastic. Or great. Or even pretty good. :rolleyes:

Its just when people say stuff like "Cryptic makes really good games" or "Cryptic is a really good developer" it makes it sound like they're Bioware, or Bethesda, or Blizzard. As if Cryptic has made a bunch of good games. Which they havent. They've made one game. And then another one that was a clone of the first one.



Developing an MMO is vastly different than developing a box game. This is Cryptic’s third IP and although STO is a different genre than their past games I’m still confident in Cryptics ability to publish successful MMO’s.

Conversely, Blizzard has only developed one MMO. Neither Bioware nor Bethesda has yet to publish any. That being said I do have high hopes for Bioware and Bethesda’s upcoming maiden MMO projects, and whish them all the luck.

[Azurian]

Unless I'm mistaken, most mmo's don't talk much about crafting and economy until really close to launch. Don't get me wrong, I'm as anxious as you are to know all I can about the game (pvp as well) but either we will have a good crafting system/economy or we won't but put me in the catagory of those that do!

Actually if it's a highlight of the game, it is often talked about. I remember the SWG Devs were very hyped on the crafting and talked about it the most.

With STO, we were told about the crafting, but they are saving this prior to launch. But they gave some examples, such as Engineers will be the crafters for the hardware and can make turrets for ground combat and maintain shields.

[ngille]

Actually if it's a highlight of the game, it is often talked about. I remember the SWG Devs were very hyped on the crafting and talked about it the most.

With STO, we were told about the crafting, but they are saving this prior to launch. But they gave some examples, such as Engineers will be the crafters for the hardware and can make turrets for ground combat and maintain shields.

I remember them saying as much now, thanks for the reminder :)
I'm not expecting a lot of crafting info prior to launch but I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

[Norexan-Guy]

Actually, if they release in Q1 that's 5 months at best.

[Psyence1]

Any game with an economy like Eve automatically has +25 awesome points.

[Sirjohn45]

well I have read a few interviews about this subject crafting they are working on but it looks like crafting ie upgrading ships etc... economy as we know they really never used it there will be some sort of economy in STO...

p.s. yea atari said feburary go figure

[mirkrim]

Cryptic has two areas of expertise - customization and combat - and they've been trumpeting those two things for the entire development cycle up to now. About four months from release, we have yet to see any detailed info/videos about:

- non-combat gameplay
- the entire Klingon faction
- crafting/economy
- player hubs

Like others have already said, Cryptic isn't Bioware or Blizzard. I don't automatically have confidence in them based on their history of making incredible, blockbuster games, because they simply don't have said history. It doesn't mean I think STO is doomed to fail, either, but ultimately talk is cheap. If they want to drum up hype for this game, they need to showcase the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online, which is about much more than just customization and combat.

[Azurian]

I remember them saying as much now, thanks for the reminder :)
I'm not expecting a lot of crafting info prior to launch but I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

Same here. I'm hoping for an extensive crafting system, that you really get involved in. Perhaps even going where no MMO has gone before, in having multiple people work on an item.


Before you others think I'm talking about one person working on a piece, then handing it to the assembler. I'm talking about two people actually working on the same object at the same time, like in Trek. You have the Engineer and the Scientist working together to refine the efficency or the Engineer and the Tactical Officer refining a weapon.

Now that would be fun!

[Mogfire]

I remember them saying as much now, thanks for the reminder :)
I'm not expecting a lot of crafting info prior to launch but I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

I'm not expecting much either at this point but they can throw a little more info out there for crafting. Regardless if Starfleet never used money or sold their technology ( debatable but save that for later), this is Startrek online and not starfleet. I think from the DS9 series we can see that there was a strong economy for weapon's selling and bartering of other goods. Plus the Klingons have the darsek so why would they be limited to the same standards as starfleet.

I will bite my tongue now and wait like everyone else for the news to come.

By the way is the answer to every question on this forum "PR Cycle" why bother asking if everyone is just going to respond back......" Hey did you not hear them the first time"? PR!!!!! Not to be negitive but PR is not code for no info.

[rabidchocobo]

There is precedent for Geordi to cobble together a multi-spectrum doohickey using a scanning gadget and a phase whatchamacallit. I'm hoping for a system of making shield enhancements, fast hull repair drones, etc. But it would have to be handled carefully.

[Kriss]

They are intentionall withholding this information until the marketing geniuses say the tiem is right. Hype it too early and their ideas could be stolen.

I am eager too, don't get me wrong.


I think I will go out on a limb here...... and say that by judging by ALL of Cryptics past games, you won't get an economy in this one either. They obviously lack the skill to produce one or lack the drive. Either way, YOU, the customer, gets it in the back-side.

Sorry, but lets be honest where honesty is due.

If they think they can consider "buy 'X' amount of items and then take them to this planet or station and sell them to help our side out" then it will be quite obvious they don't have a clue.

[Kriss]

Developing an MMO is vastly different than developing a box game. This is Cryptic’s third IP and although STO is a different genre than their past games I’m still confident in Cryptics ability to publish successful MMO’s.

Conversely, Blizzard has only developed one MMO. Neither Bioware nor Bethesda has yet to publish any. That being said I do have high hopes for Bioware and Bethesda’s upcoming maiden MMO projects, and whish them all the luck.


Really.....and what then makes CO successful? That it has been operating for a month? If you use that logic then every MMO is successful. Which in todays market I guess would be a good thing since 90% of the games out there are utter krap! Including the before-mentioned CO!

So how are you saying that their other MMOs are successful because success is measured in so many ways.

I'll tell you how I judge success. Whether or not a MMO increases or decreases its sub base up to 6 months after release. And I'm sorry to break the news to you but COs sub base if falling quite rapidly only one month after release. That is nothing short of FAILURE!

So yea.....I don't have much confidence at all in Cryptics ability to make a successful MMO, ESPECIALLY with such a huge name as Star Trek. And especially after what we have...make that HAVE NOT seen with us going into beta.

[javert78]

Of COURSE ST:O will have an economy. It's just that no one can explain it in a paragraph or less--not even Mr. Spock.

[Fecklar]

I was extremely happy when news that Cryptic received the IP, as I have utmost confidence in their development abilities. With less than 6 moths till launch (Assuming late Q1) I find myself concerned about their lack of information regarding crafting and economy.

To date all crafting and economy questions have been summarily deflected. (A natural course of any PR cycle) However not with the same zeal as Klingon or PvP questions. I spent last night re-watching video interviews about STO. The top questions deflected were PvP, Klingons, and release date. Which were all deflected with the same zeal suggesting -We have something great, just can’t tell you. This zeal was not apparent with regards to economy/crafting. (example: UfragTV Pax09) If I was a gambling man… which I am, I’d assume there really hasn’t been much progress on the economy/crafting side.

I recall one interview that mentioned the economy will defiantly be seeded, and HyorD included the following in his sticky “Everything we know about STO”

“Economy and crafting:
· Trade will be flowing within the various factions and between them; the players will be "expediting this".
· You will be competing for resources more than outright fighting other players for them. [LVWc]”

Anxious as I am to also find out more about Klingons, Cryptic’s past projects and development abilities are strong enough where I’m not concerned about Klingons, confident they will be diverse and engaging. By the same token I’m less confident about STO’s economy and crafting side. I think it’s fair to say Cryptic’s CoX games, great as they were, took crating and economy as an afterthought.

Can we look forward to an economy like Eve, or PotBS? An MMO where the economy is actually part of the game. Or are we only going so far as games like Matrix Online and I shudder to admit, CoH? Personally I would much rather see an economy that is part of the game, not just side project to do with surplus loot.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

i think games with involved economy ruin group exploration and combat ...cant tell you how many times i had to help a society mate hual a load of lumber before fleet grinding in potbs

[Skrim72]

Really.....and what then makes CO successful? That it has been operating for a month? If you use that logic then every MMO is successful. Which in todays market I guess would be a good thing since 90% of the games out there are utter krap! Including the before-mentioned CO!

So how are you saying that their other MMOs are successful because success is measured in so many ways.

I'll tell you how I judge success. Whether or not a MMO increases or decreases its sub base up to 6 months after release. And I'm sorry to break the news to you but COs sub base if falling quite rapidly only one month after release. That is nothing short of FAILURE!

So yea.....I don't have much confidence at all in Cryptics ability to make a successful MMO, ESPECIALLY with such a huge name as Star Trek. And especially after what we have...make that HAVE NOT seen with us going into beta.

Hehe…Kriss, I never mentioned CO, I haven’t played CO and, like you said it’s only been live for 1 month. Far to young to make any informed judgment. My reply was to CommanderReed’s post which apparently you didn’t take the time to read. It is apparent you have strong emotions about your opinion, and I will not try to dissuade you. I would however, thank you to not direct your negativity towards me.

City Of Heroes has been a profitable MMO for 65 months. I would consider that a good litmus of success.

[Skrim72]

i think games with involved economy ruin group exploration and combat ...cant tell you how many times i had to help a society mate hual a load of lumber before fleet grinding in potbs

Personally I rather enjoyed playing PotBS. Normally I would “run the red” myself with a full load, but also enjoyed sailing escort for guildmates hauls. In fact I wouldn’t mind a few missions in STO where we are escorting supply ships, freighters, or diplomatic/passenger ships. Of course these would presumably be optional missions.

My mindset is that the more options players have in game the better. I’m looking forward to episodes and exploration. I’m hoping for good economy content. But personally couldn’t care less about PvP. Those would be my options, and I’m hoping there is lots to choose from.

Although I may never choose to participate in PvP content, I truly do hope there is lots to choose from on that side of the game also. But I don’t see how PvP or economy/crafting content should be seen as more or less valid as a choice. Both should be good options for gamers to choose from.

[SelorKiith]

Just because something isn't talked about does not mean that it is not existent...

[Griefhook]

Boh, we have replicators...we can make pretty much anything as long as we have the knowledge to make it.

They can develop a crafting side for ship mods... but it is kind of odd. I mean what would you pay with?

[Sorbek]

Just look at CO. I'm hoping it's more in depth than CO but expect about the same thing. It's very shallow just like the rest of the game. Could be maxed out in minutes if you could carry enough
resources to do it.

[Tain01]

Starship.

Not carpenter shed.

EDIT: Moreover, even if you put crafting in a stationary location like a planet or a space station... I am severely at odds with the idea of Captains just suddenly going, "Golly! I'm just not busy right now. I think I'll go to Space Dock and create a few dozen stacks of antimatter torpedos for my ship and put the rest up for auction! I'd better go gather singularities!"

[Heathen_Haven]

From page 3 of the Altern8.com interview found here (http://www.alltern8.com/library/mmo_games/article/exclusive_interview_with_star_trek_online_associat e_producer_andy_velasquez/l-4310.html).

A8: Seeing as working for financial gain is frowned upon by the Federation, will currency play as dominant a role in Star Trek Online as it does in many other MMOs?

AV: There is a thriving galactic economy in Star Trek Online and though money isn’t as important to our captains there will be a currency that players can accrue. Players will also need to work towards their renown and merit with Starfleet in order to progress and acquire certain things. For example, starships are massive vessels and they aren’t just handed out to anyone who comes along and asks for one so players will need to generate enough merit to warrant the helm of a new class of ship.

AV=Andy Velasquez

Sounds like an economy based solely on non-interplayer tradeable "currency" that only has value between a character and the system. And to me that's not a economy at all. It's almost equivalent to having to finish X quest to get credits to buy the Y quest item.

Or how about this:

It's like going to Chuck E. Cheese... you get tokens to play games. On some of the games (like skeeball) you can win tickets that you can trade in to "buy" items from their in house store. You can spend the tickets each time you come, or save them up over time to buy the "Big ticket" items that often cost thousands of tickets. The thing is though that neither the tokens nor the tickets have any value outside Chuck E. Cheese.

The difference being that in reality you can trade tickets (or tokens) to other people... but in STO it sounds like we won't be able to.

[FTWinston]

Sounds like an economy based solely on non-interplayer tradeable "currency" that only has value between a character and the system. And to me that's not a economy at all. It's almost equivalent to having to finish X quest to get credits to buy the Y quest item.

[snip]

in reality you can trade tickets (or tokens) to other people... but in STO it sounds like we won't be able to.

Funny, I'd have said his statement about the economy was so vague that it could mean just about anything. What bits of that statement give you the idea that there's cash, but it can't be traded between players? Merit / reknown / whatever is essentially a form of skill points by my understanding, and so are seperate from the economy.

[Rangerrob]

Hopefully, renown and merit will not be tradeable to other players.

I thought I read somewhere that Bridge officers would be tradeable, so there is your Econ/Crafting. Set up a university train up and trade bridge officers for other bridge officers.

One thing I do want to see is that any Gold Seller or Buyer have their toon become a Ferengi and their ship change to a Ferengi Shuttle.

[AdmiralDargon]

Starship.

Not carpenter shed.

EDIT: Moreover, even if you put crafting in a stationary location like a planet or a space station... I am severely at odds with the idea of Captains just suddenly going, "Golly! I'm just not busy right now. I think I'll go to Space Dock and create a few dozen stacks of antimatter torpedos for my ship and put the rest up for auction! I'd better go gather singularities!"

couldn't have said it better myself :)

[Rowr]

Yes they made CoH, but remember that that team split off some time ago... and the current team working on CoH has been throwing great gobs of improvements. Remember early on when Cryptic said they were not able to add color customization to powers? Well the team working on CoH has been able to!

So yes, Cryptic laid the ground work for what I think is a successful MMO... it's the only game I've stayed with for over 65 months straight... that is a LONG time in game-world... to even be playing the same game.

We'll see how Champions does, but looks like Star Trek is going to be their white unicorn (or whatever the term is). It could be that they are saving all the other sub-games like economy and crafting and markets for later releases, they need to get something out the door "now" to get some income rolling in, then they can spend money developing economy and crafting and markets for later.

Remember, when CoH first came out, it had no market, just selling to vendors, and directly to other players. That was it. There was no crafting. It came later. It may have been 'planned' to be in from the beginning, but they didn't have the resources or money to develop it.

However... something 'basic' to do with all the 'loot' we're sure to get, i.e. Bridge Officers, equipment and 'kits', etc. I would like to be able to 'sell' those for something... either that or let me have an unlimited inventory!!!

[ShadowStalker]

Jeez guys (and girls), remember other MMO's before open beta. Good example was WoW. They dindt tell us that much either 6 months before release. And like all MMO's STO wont be "done" when released. Just good enough to expand beyond that. Just wait and see what they do and dont got in place for us.All that drama that is going on lately..... :cool:

[kaustic13]

Economy in STO i though the federation had no currency? this should be interesting.

Though they did not have currency for many Fed members, the Fed did have dealings with peoples who were not part of the Fed. think about the currency exchange on DS9. it was there, Quark would accept nothing less than latinum at the end of the day. Additionally, some resources that were not naturally available to the Fed were purchased, not just traded, with cold hard cash.

[bullhead2007]

I have a feeling crafting may tie in to the FvF stuff (resources and alien technologies), and/or they haven't fully fleshed it out yet and are probably still tinkering with how it works. Cryptic usually doesn't talk about anything until the system is pretty much how they feel it will be on release.

[bullhead2007]

Though they did not have currency for many Fed members, the Fed did have dealings with peoples who were not part of the Fed. think about the currency exchange on DS9. it was there, Quark would accept nothing less than latinum at the end of the day. Additionally, some resources that were not naturally available to the Fed were purchased, not just traded, with cold hard cash.

Correct. The Fed has always had Federation credits to use when trading with other species. Then of course in DS9 they had to use latinum to deal with Ferengi like Quark.

Basically within the Federation there isn't really currency to buy stuff, but it is used for trade outside of the federation. The Feds are more of a barter society than a monetary one.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

They are intentionall withholding this information until the marketing geniuses say the tiem is right. Hype it too early and their ideas could be stolen.

I am eager too, don't get me wrong.

Put me in the "they're withholding this info because it's all bad news" camp. Is a player economy/crafting important in any Cryptic MMO? :mad:

[Replica]

Why would a Starfleet Captain be allowed to use a Starfleet issued ship and crew for personal gain? How does crafting fit within the Star Trek experience?

[crinaya]

From today's new interview at IncGamers:

We haven't heard much about crafting in STO. What can you tell us about it?

There are two forms of crafting in STO, but they are a little less traditional. Throughout the game you are crafting Bridge Officers. You will acquire new Bridge Officers, skill them up, and train them in new skills. You can train them in several ways, including training skill, finding other Bridge Officers to train them, or acquiring data resources to train them at planet Memory Alpha. You can then trade Bridge Officers to other players, or transfer them back to Starfleet for reputation.

There is also a harvesting feature in STO where you collect a number of different resources throughout the universe (both in space and on planet surfaces). These resources can be used to unlock special recipes for new items at Memory Alpha.

So it sounds like the primary crafting resources in the game are people and gear. Which does sound like it matches the Federation quite well.

And to be honest, I can't even tell if the Klingons have an economy, or if they just take what they need from whoever is weaker.


Now I do hope there will be a Ferengi expansion with massive trade/crafting stuff only for that particular faction, and then the other factions will have to deal with those new players to get what they want/need.

[theNater]

There is precedent for Geordi to cobble together a multi-spectrum doohickey using a scanning gadget and a phase whatchamacallit. I'm hoping for a system of making shield enhancements, fast hull repair drones, etc. But it would have to be handled carefully.
You'll notice that Geordi produces those sorts of things, uses them once, and then never mentions them again. They don't behave like crafted equipment, and they don't meaningfully enter into the economy.

They sound more like a bridge officer special power to me. Something that provides a large random bonus on long cooldown, or something usable only in special circumstances that allows access to a different path through a mission. Something like that.

[kaustic13]

Put me in the "they're withholding this info because it's all bad news" camp. Is a player economy/crafting important in any Cryptic MMO? :mad:

Admittedly, no, it has not been important to the two Cryptic MMOs, thus far. I can't imagine that they would overlook the potency of crafting for an IP with such a rabid fan-base. The fan-base of Star Trek will be expecting a robust game system similar in scale to that which was first in SWG but with alternate focus. The inclusion of THAT scale will be the life or death of STO.

How many times have we, the forum readers, seen demand for noncombat classes? How many times have we seen the request for multi-player ship operation? How many times have we seen the plethora of ST native concepts as game-play options? MANY. So much so Cryptic cannot ignore it.

Will it all be in at launch? Probably not. Putting all of that in would require a 10 year development cycle. Now-a-days, in spite of ridiculous demands made buy unreasonable flamers, no MMO company can afford that long of a cycle. Lots of people claim that release of MMORPGs are plagued with incompleteness. I agree with this but I am seeing Cryptic's deployment of "incomplete" games as a strategic action. They put out a complete and operational framework, then they clean up the unexpected bugs, after that they bang away at features the beta testers and full subscribers ask for.

Cryptic cannot ignore the fact that STO just might have the lobes to be bigger than Linage and possibly nearly as big as WoW. In that the launch version of STO may not have the crafting, or other features, we discuss here and I am sure they (Cryptic staffers) discuss in the office but I am pretty positive they are forthcoming, at some point.

In that, all I have to say is they better be clear and resonant about what is coming after launch or STO will flop, because it will. The modern MMORPG player is a fickle creature that is easily frightened off or discouraged.

[kaustic13]

Why would a Starfleet Captain be allowed to use a Starfleet issued ship and crew for personal gain? How does crafting fit within the Star Trek experience?

It does. The precedent for such a thing is a glaring reality in the canon.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=912524#post912524

You are right about a Starfleet captain not being able to use a Starfleet issued ship for personal gain which is why they need to put forth the option to be a free trader. It would not be that complicated and could be instituted by developing a series of neutral ships for transporting goods. This would still be canonical. Will it be in at launch? Probably not. Will it eventually be there? I dare say, yes, it will be.

[theNater]

It does. The precedent for such a thing is a glaring reality in the canon.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=912524#post912524
Most of the things you describe are like the Geordi example mentioned earlier. The character needs a device now, and for whatever reason must make it themselves. Once made, it is used then forgotten. This is not a player crafting system, nor is it a noticeable factor in an economy.

The recurring characters who are restaurateurs, bartenders, and tailors rarely, if ever, engage their crafting skills for plot purposes. Guinan is used for a listening ear and some alien sensitivities, not drink mixing; Quark is used for his lock-breaking abilities and connections, not his food preparation; and Garak is used for his Obsidian Order training and understanding of Cardassian behavior, not his needlework.

None of this is to say that crafting wouldn't be a welcome addition, but this is not a "glaring reality" of a precedent for crafters as major characters based on their crafting in canon.

Also, a pro tip: your links will be more effective if they go to an example of what you are talking about, rather than to another post by you describing what you are talking about.

[kaustic13]

Most of the things you describe are like the Geordi example mentioned earlier. The character needs a device now, and for whatever reason must make it themselves. Once made, it is used then forgotten. This is not a player crafting system, nor is it a noticeable factor in an economy.

The recurring characters who are restaurateurs, bartenders, and tailors rarely, if ever, engage their crafting skills for plot purposes. Guinan is used for a listening ear and some alien sensitivities, not drink mixing; Quark is used for his lock-breaking abilities and connections, not his food preparation; and Garak is used for his Obsidian Order training and understanding of Cardassian behavior, not his needlework.

None of this is to say that crafting wouldn't be a welcome addition, but this is not a "glaring reality" of a precedent for crafters as major characters based on their crafting in canon.

Also, a pro tip: your links will be more effective if they go to an example of what you are talking about, rather than to another post by you describing what you are talking about.


Guinan IS a bartender. beyond being a sounding board that is her career. Quark IS a trader, a black market trader mostly but still a trader. Garak is a tailor; yes he does work with the Obsidian order but he pays his bills as a tailor. Before he joined the Voyager crew Neelix was a trader/scavenger as well, and probably returned to that vocation after leaving Voyager. From TOS onward we, as viewers/readers encounter many traders. They are part of the flavor that livens Star Trek.

I am talking about the spirit of crafting and trading, a spirit very much alive in the Star Trek IP. That spirit does not have to be evoked or displayed by a main character, though it is, to be valid. It is there, it glares, and it is essential. If you don't agree, that is perfectly fine. My perspective is still, by my accounting, valid.

I provided that link so I would not potentially force someone to reread something I had written. To link it to examples would actually be citation of books and episodes from the Star Trek continuum (books, movies, TV episodes, comic books). Like my perspective on crafting in the Star Trek universe, the link is still valid.

[theNater]

Guinan IS a bartender. beyond being a sounding board that is her career. Quark IS a trader, a black market trader mostly but still a trader. Garak is a tailor; yes he does work with the Obsidian order but he pays his bills as a tailor. Before he joined the Voyager crew Neelix was a trader/scavenger as well, and probably returned to that vocation after leaving Voyager. From TOS onward we, as viewers/readers encounter many traders. They are part of the flavor that livens Star Trek.
Yes, they are the part of the flavor called "background". You will notice that these people do their day jobs when we aren't watching. Because that's not what the stories are about.

The presence of these people certainly indicates that there should be crafters and traders in the game. But that does not, by itself, mean that the crafters and traders should be PCs.
I am talking about the spirit of crafting and trading, a spirit very much alive in the Star Trek IP. That spirit does not have to be evoked or displayed by a main character, though it is, to be valid. It is there, it glares, and it is essential. If you don't agree, that is perfectly fine. My perspective is still, by my accounting, valid.
The spirit of social governance is a spirit very much alive and well in the Star Trek universe. We meet an endless procession of council members, presidents, dictators, colony leaders, kings, naguses, and other grand poo-bahs. Does that mean the game should include a political career path, with the players running a village/town/city/colony/nation/planet instead of exploring the universe? If so, is that a higher or lower priority than crafting, and why?
I provided that link so I would not potentially force someone to reread something I had written. To link it to examples would actually be citation of books and episodes from the Star Trek continuum (books, movies, TV episodes, comic books). Like my perspective on crafting in the Star Trek universe, the link is still valid.
I never said your link wasn't valid. I said it wasn't very effective. If you want to convince people that it is a glaring reality in the canon, show them the parts of canon in which it glares most strongly.

The link does support your premise. It is, in that respect, entirely valid.

[kaustic13]

Yes, they are the part of the flavor called "background". You will notice that these people do their day jobs when we aren't watching. Because that's not what the stories are about.

The presence of these people certainly indicates that there should be crafters and traders in the game. But that does not, by itself, mean that the crafters and traders should be PCs.

The spirit of social governance is a spirit very much alive and well in the Star Trek universe. We meet an endless procession of council members, presidents, dictators, colony leaders, kings, naguses, and other grand poo-bahs. Does that mean the game should include a political career path, with the players running a village/town/city/colony/nation/planet instead of exploring the universe? If so, is that a higher or lower priority than crafting, and why?

I never said your link wasn't valid. I said it wasn't very effective. If you want to convince people that it is a glaring reality in the canon, show them the parts of canon in which it glares most strongly.

The link does support your premise. It is, in that respect, entirely valid.

You know, if you really don't get it, which it seems you either don't or you just like to argue, there is no real sense in continuing this discussion with you. Hands down, as I have illustrated, crafting has precedent in the canon. It also is something of great importance to players of MMORPGs. If Cryptic wants a robust player community, which I think I can confidently say they do, they will listen to people who want something more than limited crafting. They will provide the tolls and game play to allow crafters to become the glue that tightly binds a community together beyond the "pew pew" phaser play. Though I probably will not personally delve into crafting deeply myself, I would like to see a worthy system provided for others, to attract quality players to liven the game world expirence. If you don't get that then you may not get MMORPGs.

What you seem to take as flavor, i take as core game play, as do many many others.

I don't want to get into some flame thing. I want to read others opinions in and of this thread. thank you for commenting on my response.

[sleeplessone]

in STO we dont need Econ or crafting :) ...... its just magic

everything is shared or is it "finders keepers" :)

[lothic]

While I'd readily acknowledge there is canon to support the idea of having trade/crafting be a part of a Star Trek universe MMO (i.e. Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd, the Frengi, etc.) I don't think that it's an imporant enough part of the experience for it to have to be fully supported on Day One of the game. I'd be more than happy to allow that to be part of an significant expansion later down the line well after the game has been established.

[Skrim72]

I liked the info given in the recent IncGamers interview. It sounds to me like the Bridge Officers are an improved version of Guild Wars Nightfall heroes, which I enjoyed greatly.

The harvesting feature is still somewhat ambiguous. These resources, are they something we actively seek out, or just extra loot from kills? I know STO will likely be a kill/loot type game, which is a little disappointing. I wouldn’t want “day job” or financial based content. But I was hoping for infrastructure or logistics type content.

A simplistic example would be something like…

A) Explore a new area, find dilithium deposits and set up a trade route to the shipyards. Earn infrastructure points depending on how much dilithium you donate. Trade those infrastructure points in at a boarder starport to expand the boarders in that area for a while.

B) Make first contact with space-faring race. Negotiate trade/barter lanes to earn favor with new race, and incorporate their technology into the federation. Donate the new technology to give federation NPC ships a buff in combat against their enemies for a while.

[Fatherfungus]

<<< gets extra strong ear plugs >>>

saying this nicely

cryptic considers training bridge officers to be crafting.......

put 2 and 2 together

[Dr._Sskarno]

I was extremely happy when news that Cryptic received the IP, as I have utmost confidence in their development abilities. With less than 6 moths till launch (Assuming late Q1) I find myself concerned about their lack of information regarding crafting and economy.

To date all crafting and economy questions have been summarily deflected. (A natural course of any PR cycle) However not with the same zeal as Klingon or PvP questions. I spent last night re-watching video interviews about STO. The top questions deflected were PvP, Klingons, and release date. Which were all deflected with the same zeal suggesting -We have something great, just can’t tell you. This zeal was not apparent with regards to economy/crafting. (example: UfragTV Pax09) If I was a gambling man… which I am, I’d assume there really hasn’t been much progress on the economy/crafting side.

I recall one interview that mentioned the economy will defiantly be seeded, and HyorD included the following in his sticky “Everything we know about STO”

“Economy and crafting:
· Trade will be flowing within the various factions and between them; the players will be "expediting this".
· You will be competing for resources more than outright fighting other players for them. [LVWc]”

Anxious as I am to also find out more about Klingons, Cryptic’s past projects and development abilities are strong enough where I’m not concerned about Klingons, confident they will be diverse and engaging. By the same token I’m less confident about STO’s economy and crafting side. I think it’s fair to say Cryptic’s CoX games, great as they were, took crating and economy as an afterthought.

Can we look forward to an economy like Eve, or PotBS? An MMO where the economy is actually part of the game. Or are we only going so far as games like Matrix Online and I shudder to admit, CoH? Personally I would much rather see an economy that is part of the game, not just side project to do with surplus loot.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like the crafting will be there but not in a traditional sense. I like it . It sounds more Trek-like. Besides, I expect exploration will fill the niche occupied by crafting in other MMOs.

[Talec]

<<< gets extra strong ear plugs >>>

saying this nicely

cryptic considers training bridge officers to be crafting.......

put 2 and 2 together

Absolutely - as far as the Federation is concerned, development of people and their potential is the driving force. Economics, as we understand it, are focussed around person advancement, not material gain. So your 'wealth' as a Federation Captain is in your BOf's and their abilities.

As far as true crafting...collecting of resources, finding schematics maybe, crafting stations in space stations, shops or auction houses, yes, of course that would be great. But I would put it on a level with the ability to move around in your ship - great idea, yes we want it, but we can live without it at launch.

I would rather it was done right and well, than cobbled in.

[Admiral_Ares]

<<< gets extra strong ear plugs >>>

saying this nicely

cryptic considers training bridge officers to be crafting.......

put 2 and 2 together

4

weren't you leaving until you get into the closed beta forum?

:)

[DarkOrion69]

Having read every scrap of information I can get my hands on, I have gleaned that there will be a Federation currency called Energy Credits. You will go out and scan anomalies for scientific data and return the information to Memory Alpha for rewards. I also suspect that a large part of standard space battle loot will be simulated by awarding Energy Credits equal to the level of threat of an encounter.

This answers and reflects the bartering economy of the Federation fairly enough. The Klingons would be better served using latinum both amongst themselves, and in the 'Orion Black Market' or 'The Ferengi Exchange' (Multi-Faction Neutral AH). Of course a Federation player could opt to pursue latinum to purchase items usually exclusive to the Klingon Faction I suppose.

As to crafting, I really think it is going to be minimal if not flat ignored in STO. The fact that they feel the need to categorize training BO's as 'crafting-like' means they are likely shoring up a weak area (lack of crafting) to placate the fans that enjoy crafting. What I would like to see is player crafted ships, and player crafted space stations that research technology and produce materials, functioning simultaneously as trade stations and places to base Fleet Operations..

[andrewprofit]

i imagine only items and materials which cannot be replicated or are to large to be replicated will be crafted. Accordingly, only crafted and epic items and materials which cannot be replicated will be traded in the game.

[theNater]

You know, if you really don't get it, which it seems you either don't or you just like to argue, there is no real sense in continuing this discussion with you.
Not getting it and liking to argue aren't mutually exclusive, you know.;)

Seriously, though, it is very likely that I have misunderstood something. I'm asking questions and poking at statements in order to try to understand. Isn't that what discussion is for?
Hands down, as I have illustrated, crafting has precedent in the canon.
This part of your argument seems to be: because there are characters in canon who are crafters, players should be able to play as crafters. If I have misunderstood, please explain to me what I have misunderstood.

If this is your argument, then it begs the questions: should players be able to play as colony administrators because there are characters in canon who are colony administrators? Similarly, should players be able to play as Q because there are characters in canon who are Q?
It also is something of great importance to players of MMORPGs. If Cryptic wants a robust player community, which I think I can confidently say they do, they will listen to people who want something more than limited crafting. They will provide the tolls and game play to allow crafters to become the glue that tightly binds a community together beyond the "pew pew" phaser play. Though I probably will not personally delve into crafting deeply myself, I would like to see a worthy system provided for others, to attract quality players to liven the game world expirence. If you don't get that then you may not get MMORPGs.
I'm not sure who you're arguing with here. It's certainly not me, as I have not disputed any of these points.
What you seem to take as flavor, i take as core game play, as do many many others.
What I'm trying to understand is not why you feel crafting is part of core MMO game play, but why you feel crafting is part of the core Star Trek experience. Just because crafting happens, that doesn't mean Star Trek is about crafting.

Crafting doesn't need to be part of the core Star Trek experience to be a core part of STO.

[Fatherfungus]

4

weren't you leaving until you get into the closed beta forum?

:)

pretty much...will stick in a post here and there but not starting any more threads
frankly, am too busy

[dididoo]

Been following this game on and off but just started posting.

Crafting has always been a joy (abeit challanging, mind numbingly boring or plain stupid depending on the game), being able to say that the 'item' created with your name in the description is the bes/one of the best out there, having people seek you out to take a commission etc.

Regrettably it looks like this aspect of crafting does not, as yet, exist. We can live in hope that it may be implemented but if not then i suspect Cryptic may be mission out on subscribers/loosing subscribere based on this point. Maybe not enough to truly matter but time will tell

[bitgolem]

Why would you have crafting in Star Trek? "Computer, I want a 2 kilo widget!" ::replicator creates 2 kilo widget::

[DarkOrion69]

STO is soft canon. STO is being made for MMO fans that like the ST IP. MMO fans like crafting. Therefore, those MMO fans want crafting in STO. What fits in hard canon (real ST?) is immaterial in soft canon. So the addition of crafting is inevitable and desired by many.

[Night_Hawke]

Why would you have crafting in Star Trek? "Computer, I want a 2 kilo widget!" ::replicator creates 2 kilo widget::

you should go back through the tv shows, their is a ton of things that the engineers have to craft because they are too complex for the replicators to make.

[Nanoteki]

you should go back through the tv shows, their is a ton of things that the engineers have to craft because they are too complex for the replicators to make.

It does not matter quite frankly the Star Trek IP will rake in the suckers Atari needs to make their profits and all else be damned. The average Star Trek fan base will simply buy it and play it and even convince themselves the game is good just because of two simple words Star Trek.

[mazrocks]

I have to chip in with my 2 cents.

I will start by stating that I have never had an interest in crafting, not in any MMO, and especially not in WoW. I more often enjoyed collecting goods and selling them at an auction house than crafting any goods myself. In EvE online crafting is an understandable process as it is a pivotal cog in the economy of the single shard universe. But if a game has no need for crafting, then why tack it on? Champions online for example, why the hell would superheroes wanna make anything?? cool villain beating gadgets no matter, but what place does it hold in an IP based on comic books?

I personally couldn't care less about a crafting system in STO, I'd actually prefer if they left it on the wayside to be honest. Exploration, Yes! Combat, Yes! Gathering Materials? Perhaps, but selling them in an Auction house in a Star Trek game? As a Federation player? In a future Utopia where money no longer exists? What is the point in that? I'm not just moaning about it because it doesn't really fit in with Star Trek continuity (unless your ferengi or something) but as a stupid thing that is tacked on most mmos as a 'feaure'

Crafting isn't really fun, at least, it hasn't been for a long time now. And having your name attached to a piece of equipment a few thousand other player have had their name attached to doesn't make it special. It's just a little dull, and has no place in this game.

[Night_Hawke]

It does not matter quite frankly the Star Trek IP will rake in the suckers Atari needs to make their profits and all else be damned. The average Star Trek fan base will simply buy it and play it and even convince themselves the game is good just because of two simple words Star Trek.

OK, i don't really understand what that has to do with what i said.

[Nanoteki]

OK, i don't really understand what that has to do with what i said.

It is simple the faster they can get the game out faster the more money they stand to make.Crafting or any comparable Star Trek like system to it would only add time and complexity to the development. That is the same exact reason the Klingon faction won't even get their own themed tutorial. It is about just milking the IP for all it's worth and a Star Trek named mmorpg is a natural cup of milk.

[joriandrake]

It does not matter quite frankly the Star Trek IP will rake in the suckers Atari needs to make their profits and all else be damned. The average Star Trek fan base will simply buy it and play it and even convince themselves the game is good just because of two simple words Star Trek.

not true, SWG is a terrible mess and lacking subscibers despite being Star Wars, atleast that game is a good example for Cryptic what NOT TO do with the Trek license :)

[Inquizitor]

not true, SWG is a terrible mess and lacking subscibers despite being Star Wars, atleast that game is a good example for Cryptic what NOT TO do with the Trek license :)

SWG made alot of money at launch. It also wasn't THAT bad at first. Waht ended up killing it was people learnign how to game the game. Then The Combat change then then NGE. WEll All the stuff people often attribute to it's failure. It is all rooted in how exploitable the games initial system was. It kinda suffered teh way UO suffered. Good idea on paper. Didn't work quite so well in practice.

I maintain that no game designed like thsoe two were will ever survive unless tehre is Permadeath. Not that that would be apropriate for STO based on what we know so far of their system.

[Nanoteki]

not true, SWG is a terrible mess and lacking subscibers despite being Star Wars, atleast that game is a good example for Cryptic what NOT TO do with the Trek license :)

They made money from simply launching the game. The same is true with most well kept IP's that need milking.
Star Trek is one IP that has just gotten it's turn. The reason why we see so many Marvel Comic based movies on.(CO,COH and COV prior??) That is not to say that I'm against making money, but it is clear when there is a good effort to put out a good product. STO as it appears for many others is simply a way to milk the IP and not necessarily deliver a good product. As far as Star Wars is concerned the new IP licensee appears to have learned from SWG and is developing SWTOR. The developer in that case appears to be putting or at least giving the impression of effort towards a good product.

[Tain]

STO is soft canon. STO is being made for MMO fans that like the ST IP. MMO fans like crafting. Therefore, those MMO fans want crafting in STO. What fits in hard canon (real ST?) is immaterial in soft canon. So the addition of crafting is inevitable and desired by many.

Ignoring major, universal aspects of an IP doesn't make it soft canon, it makes it non-canon.

[DarkOrion69]

Ignoring major, universal aspects of an IP doesn't make it soft canon, it makes it non-canon.

Prior to joining this board, and with my past as a hardcore Trekkie I am tempted to agree with you. However, I have learned that soft canon is going to be used to justify nearly everything in STO that does not fit hard canon. So I am faced with accepting the reality or rejecting the game by not subscribing. I simply choose to subscribe and accept the re-invention of ST as an MMO.

[dru_mcd]

Why would you have crafting in Star Trek? "Computer, I want a 2 kilo widget!" ::replicator creates 2 kilo widget::

That's probably exactly why crafting in STO is going to be so odd. More focused on Bridge Officers than Gadgets.

[Kriss]

That's probably exactly why crafting in STO is going to be so odd. More focused on Bridge Officers than Gadgets.


Because all the ship upgrades, gadget upgrades, computer upgrades, transporter upgrades and just about any other "upgrade" we saw in all the movies and shows really came out of a replicator.....yea, ok.

The PEOPLE found them and had to come up with them! Not to mention when you claim there will be a "player economy" you better have some sort of crating in the game. Because, guess what. An economy does NOT = running *material A* to *B-destination* and bring back *C-product*...etc etc.

Because right there is what I am gathering Cryptic thinks is an "economy". From the things I have seen the devs and ZC say over the months.

They don't have a fricking clue what an economy is if it sat on their face....you can fill in the rest of the sentence.

[syberghost]

Every single thing in this game has SOMEBODY, somewhere, who cares most about that part. The only way to make every single one of them happy with the amount of information released would be to release all information available. That would cause the sales hype to peak now, several months before release. That would doom this game.

[Zepath]

I'm expecting the economy and crafting systems to blow.

Crafting and the economy has been mindless and unimpressive in the CoX series, and CO isn't offering me any hope.

Best I can tell, they have one person who is responsible for the crafting system in the game ... and I think Cryptic would be talking about it heavily at this point if they had something they were proud of.

So either they don't have something they are proud of, or its not finished to a degree that they want to talk about (which means the rest will be rushed). Neither scenario makes me feel good.

[squidheadjax]

Prior to joining this board, and with my past as a hardcore Trekkie I am tempted to agree with you. However, I have learned that soft canon is going to be used to justify nearly everything in STO that does not fit hard canon. So I am faced with accepting the reality or rejecting the game by not subscribing. I simply choose to subscribe and accept the re-invention of ST as an MMO.

I was under the impression that "soft canon" referred to the weight STO would carry with the rest of the franchise, not vice versa.

[General_Erko]

I can see crafting being done in the federation of course a exchange of enlightened ideas. But some one spamming" WTS upgraded phaser for 20 federation bucks" does not seem very Federation to me.

I thought the Federation evolved past greedy money hoarding. Some of the other races in Star Trek it would make sense to hoard goods and money but not the Federation.

It will be interesting to see how they insert an economy into the Federation without ruining the concept of getting past greed.

[Zepath]

I can see crafting being done in the federation of course a exchange of enlightened ideas. But some one spamming" WTS upgraded phaser for 20 federation bucks" does not seem very Federation to me.

I thought the Federation evolved past greedy money hoarding. Some of the other races in Star Trek it would make sense to hoard goods and money but not the Federation.

It will be interesting to see how they insert an economy into the Federation without ruining the concept of getting past greed.

Well, with the exception of a couple of off-handed quotes in a couple of episodes, that even Roddenberry and the Star Trek Franchise quickly contradicted and backed away from ... there was always an economy in Star Trek and within the Federation itself.

Constant references to costs to Star Fleet for various things, the trading and exchanging of Replicator and Holodeck resources, poker games between the TNG crew, visiting bars (and paying for drinks), shopping in malls (buying fabrics, jewelry, tribbles) .... there are far more instances of there being an economy, and crew members having personal wealth, than the couple of statements some writer threw in for Jean Luc to spit out.

More on topic to this game tho ... people simply aren't going to play a game (long term) where there's not trinkets and baubles to earn and work towards ... other games have tried it, and while having some initial success, people lose interest quickly. Personally I don't want to see them experimenting with this game ... if it is a good game, I want to see it last for a long time.

And that means a strong player economy and a strong crafting system ... unfortunately, yes, that also means the morons hawking their wares on the public channels. :(