Cloaking tech for starfleet?

[Griefhook]

Seeing that the Kittamer (ok my spelling is terrible) accord down the pan, does this mean that Starfleet can produce and use cloaking tech?

[Kazzy]

yes, I'm going to be the one who says it was the treaty of algeron which prevents the federation from using cloaking devices.

Also the devs said that its not very federationish to cloak

[JesseH21]

the no cloaking tech treaty was with the romulans, not the klingons, and i highly doubt Starfleet would use them on all their ships anyway, IF they were to give access to cloaking tech, it would likely be the defiant style ships.... as those are the only ones in canon that had really ever used cloaking tech.


but i doubt feds will get cloaking tech just because they are now at war with the klingons.

[Griefhook]

Soz I got the wrong accord.

[VainEldritch]

Probably been mentioned before somewhere, but in the last TNG episode "All Good Things" (a GREAT Trek episode, btw), Riker's Enterprise had a cloaking device and used it to get the jump on a couple of Kilingon battle cruisers (and subseqently tore them a new one).

So it appears the Feds may have access to this technology well before 2409.

That said, the AGT episode did have a number of mixed up "possible futures" so I may well be talking out of my "Jeffrey's Tube"...

[Fatherfungus]

ok.....Janeway had cloaking technology (shuttle) in last voyager episode

so is possible.......likely used by scout class or very special ships

my guess, yes but limited.

[JesseH21]

ok.....Janeway had cloaking technology (shuttle) in last voyager episode

so is possible.......likely used by scout class or very special ships

my guess, yes but limited.

remember, that was another "possible future" that kinda got re-written when Voyager got home like 7 years ahead of time...

[Fatherfungus]

more of a reference to Federation ability to make one...engineers should be able to make one

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Probably been mentioned before somewhere, but in the last TNG episode "All Good Things" (a GREAT Trek episode, btw), Riker's Enterprise had a cloaking device and used it to get the jump on a couple of Kilingon battle cruisers (and subseqently tore them a new one).

So it appears the Feds may have access to this technology well before 2409.

That said, the AGT episode did have a number of mixed up "possible futures" so I may well be talking out of my "Jeffrey's Tube"...

Right, that was a possible future. Events in the movies, specifically ST:G where the Enterprise-D was destroyed, pretty much makes that future impossible.

It hasn't been a question of technology for a long time, it's been a question of philosophy of the Federation not believing in using cloaks. I think "no Fed cloaks" was always a Roddenberry rule etched in canon by the Treaty of Algeron. Not sure how whoever is running his estate now feels about that, but it appears Cryptic is honoring that rule/treaty.

[Swiftus27]

Are the Kilrathi going to be using their cloaking ships? I don't want to get demoted again.

[Swiftus27]

Its those cloaking torpedoes I worry about.....

Skippers? God, I hated those things.

[geodbdrunk01]

Its those cloaking torpedoes I worry about.....

[BigDaddyMustang]

Cloaks are energy hogs. And every Starfleet ship is already a energy hog, holodecks, SIF's, shielding inside and out, turbolifts. As well as everything else, just keeping your pretty starship looking so clean and spotless must take up a monster load. Cloaks are great as a tactical weapon, but in everyday use forget it.

[geodbdrunk01]

Skippers? God, I hated those things.

Wing Commander II was my first space fighter sim... man I loved that game. Followed shortly after by X-Wing. Truly, a golden age in space sims!

Wing Commander Privateer (the first one of course) would make a great universe for an MMO. Of course, Jumpgate Evolution sounds a lot like it.....

[Swiftus27]

This is now way off topic but the whole space fight sim genre has died a painful horrible ebola death.

Some of my favorite games were Tie Fighter, X Wing, and the Wing Commander Series.

[geodbdrunk01]

Yeah just a bit off topic.......

But agreed on the favorites... oldies but goldies. More recent (but still old sadly) were the freespace games and Independence War. Independence War had possibly one of the most realistic physics engine I have ever seen in a space simulator. The effects of inertia were beautiful to behold.

[Swiftus27]

Yeah just a bit off topic.......

But agreed on the favorites... oldies but goldies. More recent (but still old sadly) were the freespace games and Independence War. Independence War had possibly one of the most realistic physics engine I have ever seen in a space simulator. The effects of inertia were beautiful to behold.

Except that they measured space travel in meters... you'd be moving like 200x10^24 m/s. People's brains can't comprehend how fast that is.

[coldflow]

Would anyone be that surprised if the Federation got cloaks?

If cruisers are palladins (Tanky and support) and science ships are clerics/enchanters (heal and buff/debuff), escorts (with high dps and squishyness) would be rogues. Rogues generally get stealth.

Otherwise they have to make the Federation Escorts much better in straight up combat than their Klingon equivalent to balance the lack of stealth. Not a big deal 1v1 but in group combat being able to hide the squishies or healers before the fight is a huge deal.

Secondly we know the Federation has or will have the ability to make them from the alternate futures where they use them. There is also no treaty to stop them with the Romulans largely out of the picture.

The only reason they wont get cloaking is if the game designers want to keep the ship Vs submarine parallel between the Feds/Klingons.

[RowdyDurango]

Are the Kilrathi going to be using their cloaking ships? I don't want to get demoted again.

Aaaah man, I love wing commander. I might have to dust off the old CD's tonight!

[Elta_and_Zletha]

This brings to mind the last TNG episode "All Good Things..."

Though it was looked as an alternate timeline or reality, most of the events (by today's standards) are very acurate.

1. Geordi's eyes were ocular implants.
2. Data was still alive and held the Lucasian chair at Chambridge University (presumably, this could be the B-4 unit with Data's neural nets).
3. Geordi reminded Picard that there is no more Neutral Zone ever since the Klingons invaded Romulan space.
4. The Treaty of Algeron did fall as we saw the Enterprise decloak.

Not acurate-
1. The Enterprise-D was still active as Admiral Riker's flagship =/

Well, either way the Treaty of Algeron states:
"The treaty reinforced and redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone, and made clear that any violations of the Zone without adequate notification, by either side, would be considered an act of war. The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation."

Since the Romulan Empire fell by 2409, this obviously nullified the treaty, so the Federation is in its right to start developing and using cloaking devices. However, these tests could still be in the working stages, so I'm sure that throughout STO, Federation ships could use cloaking devices, but with very limited use, such as on a certain episode or something =)

[geodbdrunk01]

Don't forget to turn off your turbo key so the ships don't go too fast;)

[ShadowStalker]

Otherwise they have to make the Federation Escorts much better in straight up combat than their Klingon equivalent to balance the lack of stealth. Not a big deal 1v1 but in group combat being able to hide the squishies or healers before the fight is a huge deal.

Science ships and captains are especialy good in tracking stealthed ships. It is said in numerous intervieuws.
And i believe the federation is against cloacking since they want to come over as a open bunch of people and stuff. Sneaking around cloacked would harm their ideals.

So my hope is they wont get cloacking devices. I hate it when 2 sides are completely the same but only different skins. Just like when WoW intreduced pala's to the horde and shamans to the alliance to give a example.

[Huutini]

Well, when at the press demonstration at Gamescon Zinc got asked if Starfleet have cloaking devices in the games, his ees lit up like a christmas tree, got all sparkly and he said something like "Well, it's a time of war, so - maybe."

I always took that as a "yes" :D

[Swiftus27]

Would anyone be that surprised if the Federation got cloaks?

If cruisers are palladins (Tanky and support) and science ships are clerics/enchanters (heal and buff/debuff), escorts (with high dps and squishyness) would be rogues. Rogues generally get stealth.

Otherwise they have to make the Federation Escorts much better in straight up combat than their Klingon equivalent to balance the lack of stealth. Not a big deal 1v1 but in group combat being able to hide the squishies or healers before the fight is a huge deal.

Secondly we know the Federation has or will have the ability to make them from the alternate futures where they use them. There is also no treaty to stop them with the Romulans largely out of the picture.

The only reason they wont get cloaking is if the game designers want to keep the ship Vs submarine parallel between the Feds/Klingons.


I disagree with this. You don't need to have the two teams being identical. Perhaps Fed ships regen faster? Perhaps the cloak makes Klingons a tad more vulnerable (especially when cloaking).

My only prayer is that they don't have more ships that can fire while cloaked. Two movies now have had them and I really wish that they'd be put back on the non-canon shelf.

[Desterion]

Do you guys really want to make this game only Starfleet Online? Sorry but feds shouldn't get cloak, or any special bonuses to compensate for it. They are going to have a massive numerical advantage, that's more than enough.

[Zandtar]

I disagree with this. You don't need to have the two teams being identical. Perhaps Fed ships regen faster? Perhaps the cloak makes Klingons a tad more vulnerable (especially when cloaking).

My only prayer is that they don't have more ships that can fire while cloaked. Two movies now have had them and I really wish that they'd be put back on the non-canon shelf.

I agree. The more the races can be kept different (but balanced), the better for overall game play. If it's (as another poster put it) identical with just different skins over top, it will become a boring game in the long run. I initially liked how CoH and CoV were almost two different games, and really had fun playing with the new and different villain configurations. Then, they followed the WoW template and made it the same. My subscription didn't last too long after that.

What I've seen in other threads about the same subject is that some Federation fans want to toss the notion of balance out the window, and just make sure they have all the 'good' stuff. Yes it's 30 years after shows and movies, but still the use of cloaking was almost exclusively Romulan and Klingon. And hopefully that is how it will be in the game. Providing, of course, there are adequate counter tactics available. Neither faction should have an 'I win' button.

[Fatherfungus]

ok..........
Some of Feds ships will have cloak......sorry....you can put down the references from the 1960's
original series...which cryptic (or the licence holders for that matter) no longer follow very well.

In fact you will find very many instances where the later shows and movies ignore original canon.

here is the most likely breakdown


Fed. has cloak on a few select ships....scouts, anti-borg ect..
Klingons have cloak on everything, but is a pretty generic version
Romulans will have top of the line cloak and a few select will be able to fire cloaked.

love it or leave it....that is the most likely senerio

[Kayos]

Fed. has cloak on a few select ships....scouts, anti-borg ect..
love it or leave it....that is the most likely senerio

I believe it's been said it will only be for some missions, you won't get to keep your cloak after the mission either.

[Swiftus27]

in one of the short stories, (Books put out every year with a compilation of random people's submissions), it turned out that all the Fed ships actually already had them installed in their vessel but required a special code given to them by starfleet in order to operate.

They said that possession wasn't illegal, it's use was.

[masonburrell]

Just say no to feds with cloaks! they will become hipporcrits if they use it!

[geodbdrunk01]

IF the treaty with the Romulans has been invalidated for some reason (the Path to 2409 is not complete, so it very well could be) then Starfleet would be fools not to pursue cloaking technology on their ships. Otherwise I would stick to it being illegal.

[JesseH21]

to put it bluntly, if im not flying a defiant fed side, i dont want to have the ability to cloak whenever i want >.> If i want cloaking, i'll go klingon.

[Griefhook]

to put it bluntly, if im not flying a defiant fed side, i dont want to have the ability to cloak whenever i want >.> If i want cloaking, i'll go klingon.

If it is legal to cloak then slap one on. If it is not then no worries.

However surprise attacks are an important strat. Should never discount the ability to attack the enemy from an unseen quarter.

[Swiftus27]

If it is legal to cloak then slap one on. If it is not then no worries.

However surprise attacks are an important strat. Should never discount the ability to attack the enemy from an unseen quarter.

or how about playing possum?

What if you know exactly where they are coming from? Think of the possibilities!?

Let's say that you have a science ship that can spot them (they've said that these would be in-game). If the fleet simply sails onward while keeping an eye on the incoming ships, they will know exactly when and where an unshielded ship is decloaking from. Those first few seconds could be devastating.

[Desterion]

Feds are going to outnumber klingons at least 3:1. Meaning that klingon ships are going to need to be stronger with some advantages. Of course though, most fed players think they should have cloaks, better shields, hull, weapons in addition to numerical advantages. If the feds win too much, klingons are either going to roll fed, or quit.

[geodbdrunk01]

The Klingons should not be given buffs just to counter-balance population distribution. If the Klingon players reroll because there are too many targets, they weren't really Klingons in the first place.

[Desterion]

you've obviously never had to deal with overwhelming populations of an opposing faction before. People play games to have fun. If they lose 85% of the time, they aren't having fun. Cryptic only has one chance to make this right. If it's bad off the bat, then people will quit and wait for TOR

[JesseH21]

The Klingons should not be given buffs just to counter-balance population distribution. If the Klingon players reroll because there are too many targets, they weren't really Klingons in the first place.

from what i understand, most klingons didnt care about numerical advantages or such, they always went in to kill all their enemies, even if it was a pretty suicidal mission.

[geodbdrunk01]

you've obviously never had to deal with overwhelming populations of an opposing faction before. People play games to have fun. If they lose 85% of the time, they aren't having fun. Cryptic only has one chance to make this right. If it's bad off the bat, then people will quit and wait for TOR

I played Spanish on Blackbeard in Pirates of the Burning Sea... you know nothing about being outnumbered;)

[saint100]

Hmm Cannon vs fun.

Technically in a time of war the federation would have some kind of cloak or stealth technology and the cannon has already been discussed. However from a gaming point of view I think it would be awful to have federation cloak.

How would anyone ever find anyone to fight in the neutral zone if we're all cloaked?
The whole point of the klingon cloak is to maneauver (sp?) into position, decloak and fire a broadside!
They're meant to be two completely different warfare types with different tactics. If I remember correctly, Federation ships are heavily shielded and Klingon are heavily armed - can't remember the source though.

I'd want two different gaming experiences from playing both sides, if they're too similar it'll reduce the interest in the game long term...

[Zandtar]

The Klingons should not be given buffs just to counter-balance population distribution. If the Klingon players reroll because there are too many targets, they weren't really Klingons in the first place.

There is a difference between what the lore from the television shows and movies is, and making a balanced game that is fun for everyone to play. Especially if objectives are going to be tied to PvP. If one side is allowed to dominate, then that just kills those area's as less and less players will participate. It isn't implemented in the best way, but Blizzard has a decent idea with their 'tenacity' buffs the side that is greatly outnumbered in a PvP instance gets. It's a balancing factor.

[jamzgub]

lol when tenacity first popped on the scene i was one shotting people with my undead mage, insta pyro for 30k sometimes rediculus, but then again i had to survive against 20 plus people

[Dext]

the no cloaking tech treaty was with the romulans, not the klingons, and i highly doubt Starfleet would use them on all their ships anyway, IF they were to give access to cloaking tech, it would likely be the defiant style ships.... as those are the only ones in canon that had really ever used cloaking tech.


but i doubt feds will get cloaking tech just because they are now at war with the klingons.

I can see some of the smaller fed ships getting them. An as we all no star fleet all ways had thing going on in the back ground that only the top dogs would know about. So there is all ways some hidden tech that could come out know.

[Aercy]

Cloaking on fed ships would be a bad idea, as mentioned because of the larger numbers to start with. Keep in mind though; fed ships generally have stronger shields, so its just the way it works: klingons and romulans sneak around waiting to attack, the feds are able to take the blow.

[Zandtar]

lol when tenacity first popped on the scene i was one shotting people with my undead mage, insta pyro for 30k sometimes rediculus, but then again i had to survive against 20 plus people

So, how long would have you hung around the PvP zone if you didn't get the tenacity, but were facing those odds? Oh, and your skills are also available to the Alliance, except their basics are better than yours.

[sandman105]

IF the the federation is able to use cloaking technology, I would prefer it to be used either for the escort type ships, or make it a perk for captain and above only.

Just my opinion though.

[Beladan]

Well, when at the press demonstration at Gamescon Zinc got asked if Starfleet have cloaking devices in the games, his ees lit up like a christmas tree, got all sparkly and he said something like "Well, it's a time of war, so - maybe."

I always took that as a "yes" :D

That was my feel too. Almost like a "Well, we CAN do it, we're not AGAINST doing it - but don't want to PROMISE to do it and get nailed if we have to yank it during testing".

[Draconianknight]

I suggest you guys take a read of past vids and post. Cryptic has alreadys stated that Feds may get cloaks but it will be limited usage. More than likely for PvE missions and then burn up or something to that affect. Zinc also stated that "It's war time and sometimes rules are bent" Personally if we stick to canon, I beleive we might see limited cloak tech for you Feds. I really don't care if you get it or not, I do not think it will help you much. And I think your cloak tech if you get it will at a lower ability than Klingon or Romulan.
I think a battle between two cloaked ships is on the horizon, but will have to wait until an expansion where Romulans become a playable race. In short, dont get your hopes to high Fedrats, but you might get lucky.:cool:

[ChristopherC]

A cloaked Federation ships? Huh!

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Like putting human perfumes on that human animal called big!

Only an enemy without honor refuses to show himself in battle.

[harsgault]

Certainly it makes sense for various escort/attack and science ship types. For the main line Fed cruisers it just doesn't feel right. For the most part, Starfleet captains are not afraid of other races and don't need to sneak up on them. ;)

[Tanktreads]

Hailing frequency has a four part interview with Zinc: http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency

take a look ( i think its the 4th part) Zinc says its time of war and that the Feds Maybe have cloak.


So we have a definate maybe from the Devs. if some one has something more recent i'd love to see it. : )

[ChristopherC]

Hailing frequency has a four part interview with Zinc: http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency

take a look ( i think its the 4th part) Zinc says its time of war and that the Feds Maybe have cloak.


So we have a definate maybe from the Devs. if some one has something more recent i'd love to see it. : )


As someone here already said that Cryptic mentioned that cloaking device will be used for quests or missions only but once done with quest it will be taken away from ya. So it seems it is limited and looks like it will be only possible in PvE for Federation.

[BlaxxSF]

The Klingons should not be given buffs just to counter-balance population distribution. If the Klingon players reroll because there are too many targets, they weren't really Klingons in the first place.

Cloaking isnt a buff , its Klingon Lore . Fed Lore is the Defaint the only known Ship with the a cloaking device a gift from the Romulans. If you give Cloaking Devices to Fed-ships the i lost my Klingon lore and have no reason to play klingon at last. Federation has at last stronger Shields and its ongly fair then the klingons have the same shields.

But the game becomes boring at last , not thinking about the the coming population problem. All i can say i am a Star Trek Fan and if you kill all Star Trek lore have no reason to play it.

Better rename the Game then ...

[Wolphard]

It's not "lore", we're going to play a game set in the future. Even better, the future of a sci-fi series we've watched. Who knows how good Klingon shields have become in those 30-something years, and I would like to think even the Federation would use the new technologies available if it saves Starfleet lives. It's not like they're biological weapons or somat.

Shame really, I would have loved the Klingons going "Three Galaxy class cruisers decloaking off the port bow!" :D

[geodbdrunk01]

Cloaking isnt a buff , its Klingon Lore . Fed Lore is the Defaint the only known Ship with the a cloaking device a gift from the Romulans. If you give Cloaking Devices to Fed-ships the i lost my Klingon lore and have no reason to play klingon at last. Federation has at last stronger Shields and its ongly fair then the klingons have the same shields.

But the game becomes boring at last , not thinking about the the coming population problem. All i can say i am a Star Trek Fan and if you kill all Star Trek lore have no reason to play it.

Better rename the Game then ...

I was responding to someone who wanted stronger weapons and shields on Klingons, not to make them equal to Fed ships, but to overcome the population disparities. That is what I meant by 'buff'

Yes, all klingon ships should have cloaking devices, I'm not disputing that.

The federation also developed their own (and arguably superior) cloaking device on board the Pegasus, but it was considered illegal by the general command structure of Starfleet. I don't know what is coming in the remainder of the path's to 2409, I am just saying it is not out of the question lore-wise to have federation ships with cloaking capabilities.

[Conman]

Riker had that eppisode where his old ship was illigaly experimenting with the advanced phasing cloak. In there it was mentioned that its against the khitomer accords... the only thing that stands between the feds and cloak is there own hesitance to be sneaky and if they still consider the romulans to be a governement to which the treaty applies... since technicaly it has collapsed who knows.

[kkmccall]

This is the first Star Trek episode since "The Enterprise Incident" in which the Enterprise is using a cloaking device. The episode finally provides a canon explanation for why the Federation doesn't use these devices. Moore stated, "I thought, let's sew this up, not because it's the last season but because I'm sick of that question at the conventions!". He believed the treaty was the easiest explanation, and better than those offered in the past - that the cloaking device harmed humans, that the device wouldn't work on Federation starships, or that "we don't sneak around". (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)

Source (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Pegasus_%28episode%29):

I'm not a PvP'er, in fact I really can't stand it. However, PvP has been included in STO & so the game needs to be balanced with that in mind. I'm also fairly certain that Cryptic are already aware that the Klingons will be outnumbered. Although not everyone on the Federation side will PvP, the numbers that do, I am sure, will still outnumber the Klingon PvP players. For this reason, it is safe to assume that measures have been taken to keep things 'Balanced'.

As a lot of PvP players have already noted, playing on a heavily outnumbered side is quite demoralizing. Within a short time, the Federation PvP players will have no one to fight & the whole PvP community in STO will just leave & find another game to play.

As yet, with no information forthcoming from Cryptic, we have no idea exactly how they intend to balance this, so that both sides are viable. At the moment all we have are wild assumptions.

As far as we are aware, the Treaty of Algeron still stands & thus Federation cloak technology is simply something that maybe Section 31 has dealings with. There was mention of Federation cloaks in some PvE missions, & this is possibly what Zinc meant when asked on that video.

The Future Past videos do not show the Romulan as beaten, or defeated. Merely weakened. the Treaty is still in effect.

[Aercy]

Riker had that eppisode where his old ship was illigaly experimenting with the advanced phasing cloak. In there it was mentioned that its against the khitomer accords... the only thing that stands between the feds and cloak is there own hesitance to be sneaky and if they still consider the romulans to be a governement to which the treaty applies... since technicaly it has collapsed who knows.

Treaty of Algeron.......

As for the Romulans: even if the government fell, not all treaties are automatically nullified when this happens, depending on the conditions of the treaty.

[jsolo15]

Treaty of Algeron.......

As for the Romulans: even if the government fell, not all treaties are automatically nullified when this happens, depending on the conditions of the treaty.

How do you figure that when the government in question is not longer around? The treaty was with the Romulan not with the Klingon that was the lore.

With the Federation and Klingon at WAR. I highly doubt they got together for drinks and decided to keep that conditions of the treaty with a governement no longer around. :confused:

[Aercy]

How do you figure that when the government in question is not longer around? The treaty was with the Romulan not with the Klingon that was the lore.

With the Federation and Klingon at WAR. I highly doubt they got together for drinks and decided to keep that conditions of the treaty with a governement no longer around. :confused:

My point was that even if the Romulan government fell, and the empire is at civil war, it doesnt doesnt mean the treaty of Algeron is automatically nullified (depending on the conditions of the treaty when they signed it). And if the Federation really is the good neighbour it pretends to be, it should still honour that treaty.

[kkmccall]

How do you figure that when the government in question is not longer around? The treaty was with the Romulan not with the Klingon that was the lore.

With the Federation and Klingon at WAR. I highly doubt they got together for drinks and decided to keep that conditions of the treaty with a governement no longer around. :confused:

Treaty of Algeron (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron)

The treaty reinforced and redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone, and made clear that any violations of the Zone without adequate notification, by either side, would be considered an act of war. The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation.


Whether or not the Cloaking Device would be used in a war with Klingons rather than Romulan, the development of a Cloaking Device by the Federation would be a violation of the Treaty.

[MankuMan]

Hailing frequency has a four part interview with Zinc: http://www.youtube.com/user/HailingFrequency

take a look ( i think its the 4th part) Zinc says its time of war and that the Feds Maybe have cloak.


So we have a definate maybe from the Devs. if some one has something more recent i'd love to see it. : )

I saw the same thing and the way he the federation cloaking thing made me think that there is one and they have been discussing it at STO HQ just watch it again and see the conflict in his eyes when he was not sure what to say.

"what the federation cloaking" (how did he find out, do we have a spy in the office)

[Draconianknight]

It's not "lore", we're going to play a game set in the future. Even better, the future of a sci-fi series we've watched. Who knows how good Klingon shields have become in those 30-something years, and I would like to think even the Federation would use the new technologies available if it saves Starfleet lives. It's not like they're biological weapons or somat.

Shame really, I would have loved the Klingons going "Three Galaxy class cruisers decloaking off the port bow!" :D

I was responding to someone who wanted stronger weapons and shields on Klingons, not to make them equal to Fed ships, but to overcome the population disparities. That is what I meant by 'buff'

Yes, all klingon ships should have cloaking devices, I'm not disputing that.

The federation also developed their own (and arguably superior) cloaking device on board the Pegasus, but it was considered illegal by the general command structure of Starfleet. I don't know what is coming in the remainder of the path's to 2409, I am just saying it is not out of the question lore-wise to have federation ships with cloaking capabilities.

You guys should really read your threads first. This issue has already been beat to death. What I find hillarious is that the Federation players have finally found something to complain and whine about.
For over a year we Klingon players have been told to wait and be patient and to stop whining about lack of Klingon content. Fianlly when the cool stuff starts to show up you guys want it ALL. Better scanners, better shields, better better better, more more more. Well you cant have everything as I have been told, so you better stop whinning and learn how to use what you get fast. Cryptic has stated repeatedly that ship combat is going to be about positioning and tatics. He has also in my opinon leaked a pretty obvious tatic.
You guys are already far out in front as far as released ships, abilities and PvE content give it rest already.
:eek:

[Fatherfungus]

all the discussion revolves around a treaty

that.....logically is no longer in force


a treaty requires 2 or more sides...all parties must obey it or it is disolved

the treaty covering cloaks was made by a romulan government that is long gone, the romulans
don't even have 1 centralized government

the only other posible party is the klingons and they are at war

WHAT TREATY ? with whom? a dead government from a destroyed planet?

.........so why all the fuss?

AH......Trekies don't want federation to have cloaks...they call back to the days of Kirk....
fine, if you don't want cloaks, don't install one on your ship.

as for balance of players....remember when wow first came out they said the same thing about the horde,
hell ...most servers are ruled by the horde......there will be a very strong klingon following.

[Wolphard]

You guys should really read your threads first. This issue has already been beat to death. What I find hillarious is that the Federation players have finally found something to complain and whine about.

Don't troll mate. I'm not saying "gief cloaking now!" I'm just saying I would have liked to be able to use cloaking and would have expected the Federation move forward on it's development. I thought I was in the right thread for that. My apologies for only scanreading this thread and not reading the older threads with this same subject. I had no idea it was such a heated subject, and it's the last you'll hear about it from me.

/peace

[Desterion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

[Aercy]

all the discussion revolves around a treaty

that.....logically is no longer in force


a treaty requires 2 or more sides...all parties must obey it or it is disolved

the treaty covering cloaks was made by a romulan government that is long gone, the romulans
don't even have 1 centralized government

the only other posible party is the klingons and they are at war

WHAT TREATY ? with whom? a dead government from a destroyed planet?

.........so why all the fuss?

AH......Trekies don't want federation to have cloaks...they call back to the days of Kirk....
fine, if you don't want cloaks, don't install one on your ship.

as for balance of players....remember when wow first came out they said the same thing about the horde,
hell ...most servers are ruled by the horde......there will be a very strong klingon following.

According to the Future's Past movies, Romulus wasnt destroyed, merely engaged in a Civil War with Remus. It doesnt say anywhere the Romulan government is dead, so the treaty is still in effect, hence the points made in the previous posts....

[JesseH21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

win! God its so funny.

[shokurai]

win! God its so funny.

ok that video is priceless

guys you don't buff and nerf abilities and ships based on server populations of a certain faction, sorry but that's nuts. Balance is acheived by how ships and abilities match up between the two sides, what are you gonna do constantly buff and nerf based on the population drops and rises ?

if one sides science vessel is really good and the other is not nearly as good, that's a balance problem by some people's logic if the Fed population was too high this would be acceptable

[curtst]

I will see if I can find it, but Cryptic has said the Federation will NOT have cloak.

EDIT: Here we are

http://www.startrekonline.com/node/294

And in regard to cloaking, the Federation will not have free access to the technology. If we gave the Federation access to cloaking, it’s all anyone would use, and that’s not the type of gameplay we envision when we think of Star Trek. Klingons, of course, will have access to cloaking, and the Federation will have access to cloak detection. Science vessels will be very good at detecting cloaked ships, so if you’re in a PvP situation, you’re probably going to want really good science vessels on your team. You won’t feel like you’re missing out on the Federation side just because you can’t cloak.

Klingons can cloak, Feds get anti-cloak.

[ChristopherC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

My second in command had to take over the helm while I was incapacitated by the sheer laugh. Qapla' Brother!

[Spire]

as for balance of players....remember when wow first came out they said the same thing about the horde,
hell ...most servers are ruled by the horde......there will be a very strong klingon following.

I have no idea what game you were playing, but in the beginning the Alliance did vastly outnumber the Horde. On my server it was 3:1 Alliance to Horde ratio, and if I recall it was about 2:1 average. Things didn't get better until the first expansion, when everyone switched to the Horde to play as Blood Elves.

I really don't see anything besides PVP and cloaking that would draw people to the Klingon side. The Federation is the focus of every movie and series, and have more PVE content. The majority of gamers will probably want to play as the good guys and PVE more than PVP, so the Federation is going to outnumber the Klingons.

[curtst]

The Federation is the focus of every movie and series, and have more PVE content. The majority of gamers will probably want to play as the good guys and PVE more than PVP, so the Federation is going to outnumber the Klingons.

The Feds have more known PvE content. They simply haven't talked much about the Klingons. This does concern me considering closed beta is going on now. We do know Klingons will be more PvP oriented with fighting amongst themselves. This makes sense, and would be true to Trek.

[Draconianknight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

Absolutly Brilliant!!!:cool:

[Draconianknight]

Don't troll mate. I'm not saying "gief cloaking now!" I'm just saying I would have liked to be able to use cloaking and would have expected the Federation move forward on it's development. I thought I was in the right thread for that. My apologies for only scanreading this thread and not reading the older threads with this same subject. I had no idea it was such a heated subject, and it's the last you'll hear about it from me.

/peace

Not "trolling" or at least not intentionly, just stating the obvious. Some of us have been getting grief a long time. Now that all the Klingon stuff is starting to hit. It is a slap in the face that all of a sudden the Feds want cloaks. And the way things have been going up until now. With all the "We want cloaks" coming I wouldnt be suprised if Cryptic waves the magic wand and gives them to you. Or worse yet, nerfs the Klingon cloaks to the point that it wont matter if we are cloaked or not.
Apology accepted, there are alot of threads to read, so that is understandable. However, if you want to cloak, play a Klingon or wait till the Romulans are playable.:eek:

[Griefhook]

Not "trolling" or at least not intentionly, just stating the obvious. Some of us have been getting grief a long time. Now that all the Klingon stuff is starting to hit. It is a slap in the face that all of a sudden the Feds want cloaks. And the way things have been going up until now. With all the "We want cloaks" coming I wouldnt be suprised if Cryptic waves the magic wand and gives them to you. Or worse yet, nerfs the Klingon cloaks to the point that it wont matter if we are cloaked or not.
Apology accepted, there are alot of threads to read, so that is understandable. However, if you want to cloak, play a Klingon or wait till the Romulans are playable.:eek:

LOLS soz mate this was not started as "zomg we want cloaks" it was just a question based on the theme. If the Feds are at war and the laws that held them back from developing cloaks are null and void will we see Feds getting claoking variants.

[Corehaven22]

Federation already has cloaking tech. I forget the episode, but its the one TNG episode where they have the cloak developed by Star Fleet that renders the ship invisible and intangible.

They end up getting stuck in an asteroid when the Romulans collapsed the entrance and the Enterprise has to use it to get out.

Sorry, I cant remember the name of the episode. Regardless, the Federation does have it. They invented it themselves. And it was the finest cloaking device ever conceived. Revolutionary really.

However the accord signed by the Romulans and Federation might not be invalid. Romulas was destroyed yes, but the Romulans are far from dead or done. There are many still out there and they will develop a hierarchy or government to some extent quickly enough. To throw away the treaty would provoke them. Then the Federation would be at war on two fronts, something they may not can afford.

Anyways, its not totally out of the question. Again the Federation does have cloaking tech that works. Whether or not they employ it remains to be seen.

[Aercy]

Federation already has cloaking tech. I forget the episode, but its the one TNG episode where they have the cloak developed by Star Fleet that renders the ship invisible and intangible.

They end up getting stuck in an asteroid when the Romulans collapsed the entrance and the Enterprise has to use it to get out.

Sorry, I cant remember the name of the episode. Regardless, the Federation does have it. They invented it themselves. And it was the finest cloaking device ever conceived. Revolutionary really.

However the accord signed by the Romulans and Federation might not be invalid. Romulas was destroyed yes, but the Romulans are far from dead or done. There are many still out there and they will develop a hierarchy or government to some extent quickly enough. To throw away the treaty would provoke them. Then the Federation would be at war on two fronts, something they may not can afford.

Anyways, its not totally out of the question. Again the Federation does have cloaking tech that works. Whether or not they employ it remains to be seen.

Probably thinking of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pegasus_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) one

[B3aT]

@CommanderReed, read this topic behind ..


I`m for the cloaking device, the Fed can do the best cloaking around (see pegasus). Of course not on all ships, only on high-end escort ones and not by default. We`re in a game, and all klingons will stay clocked and ambush the Feds, is like half of the server will be Rogues..

There will be more Fed players, but more then 40% are in for the exploring, and not fighing, so in mass PvP we`ll be even.

[ShadowStalker]

I`m for the cloaking device, the Fed can do the best cloaking around (see pegasus). Of course not on all ships, only on high-end escort ones and not by default. We`re in a game, and all klingons will stay clocked and ambush the Feds, is like half of the server will be Rogues..

There will be more Fed players, but more then 40% are in for the exploring, and not fighing, so in mass PvP we`ll be even.

If the klingons can ambush the feds easaly in retail its a problem of the feds. Science ships can detect cloacked ships as is stated in numerous intervieuws etc. So if the klingons ambush the feds and there is a science ship with the feds its more of a failure of the feds :)

[Huutini]

I have no idea what game you were playing, but in the beginning the Alliance did vastly outnumber the Horde. On my server it was 3:1 Alliance to Horde ratio, and if I recall it was about 2:1 average. Things didn't get better until the first expansion, when everyone switched to the Horde to play as Blood Elves.

In fact, the alliance got so unpopular, that they're getting the Worgs now in hopes that it will lure some players back to the alliance...

[Fatherfungus]

I here you on that, Horde is very popular

on the various posts that sum up the world as, klingons need cloak to ambush Feds and feds get anti-cloak.

are we forgetting one tiny thing?

They are at WAR.

Since when will Fed's parade around and....hope to be ambushed so they can fight the enemy?

...................never mind, pointless to argue

SURE..the Federation will stay out of the neutral zone....not attack, only defend, not use cloak
and pretend they are not at war with the Klingons.......ya


I will be rolling up a Kzinti, under the Klingon flag.....see you SOON

[JesseH21]

I here you on that, Horde is very popular

on the various posts that sum up the world as, klingons need cloak to ambush Feds and feds get anti-cloak.

are we forgetting one tiny thing?

They are at WAR.

Since when will Fed's parade around and....hope to be ambushed so they can fight the enemy?

...................never mind, pointless to argue

SURE..the Federation will stay out of the neutral zone....not attack, only defend, not use cloak
and pretend they are not at war with the Klingons.......ya


I will be rolling up a Kzinti, under the Klingon flag.....see you SOON

well, even when the feds were at war, you never seen them acting all sneaky like.... especially if the treaty with the romulans is still in effect. (just cause they are in disarray doesnt mean the feds are just going to throw the treaty out the window.)

[Fatherfungus]

WHAT !

er, not like they had an entire movie where

Federation GENERALs conspired with ROMULAN diplomats and a Klingon GENERAL to
MURDER a Klingon Chanceler...................To start a war

NAH never could happen huh......... :eek:

[JesseH21]

WHAT !

er, not like they had an entire movie where

Federation GENERALs conspired with ROMULAN diplomats and a Klingon GENERAL to
MURDER a Klingon Chanceler...................To start a war

NAH never could happen huh......... :eek:

someone going rogue in the Fed admirality does not necessarily mean its the views of the Federation as a whole... and that is not an example of feds using cloaking tech to get what they want :p

[Aercy]

I here you on that, Horde is very popular

on the various posts that sum up the world as, klingons need cloak to ambush Feds and feds get anti-cloak.

are we forgetting one tiny thing?

They are at WAR.

Since when will Fed's parade around and....hope to be ambushed so they can fight the enemy?

...................never mind, pointless to argue

SURE..the Federation will stay out of the neutral zone....not attack, only defend, not use cloak
and pretend they are not at war with the Klingons.......ya


I will be rolling up a Kzinti, under the Klingon flag.....see you SOON

For some reason it just looks as if you believe the Federation signed the treaty with the Klingons. So just to clarify: the no-cloaking treaty (including the neutral zone) is with the Romulans, so even if the Federation is at war with the Klingons, the no-cloak treaty is still in effect. And as mentioned above, the Feds wont just throw that treaty out of the window just because the Romulans are in a civil war. As for the Feds parading around waiting, thats pretty much what they did even before the Feds had a cloak (from Pegasus).

[FaeryFire]

the treaty covering cloaks was made by a romulan government that is long gone, the romulans don't even have 1 centralized government

(...)

WHAT TREATY ? with whom? a dead government from a destroyed planet?

The only issue that could arise if the Federation is ignoring the treaty, considering it nullified because of the Romulan civil unrest... and later have the winner of the power struggle establishing as the legitimate Romulan government, thus holding the legacy of everything pre-civil war, including treaties.

Now, certainly, if the path to 2409 keeps the Romulans in shamble (likely ?), one could say the treaty can be ignored. At least until the Romulans recover. Then you have to deal with your decisions.

Or you can say the Federation is cautious about ignoring such treaty because it might not please the winner of the power struggle. Having hostile (even, and supposing, weakened) Romulans on your border may not be desirable. Cloaking tech might not worth it.

[Tanktreads]

I will see if I can find it, but Cryptic has said the Federation will NOT have cloak.

EDIT: Here we are

http://www.startrekonline.com/node/294



Klingons can cloak, Feds get anti-cloak.

sweet thanks Exactly what I was asking for : )

[curtst]

sweet thanks Exactly what I was asking for : )

Glad I could help! :D

[Tianar]

Riker had that eppisode where his old ship was illigaly experimenting with the advanced phasing cloak. In there it was mentioned that its against the khitomer accords... the only thing that stands between the feds and cloak is there own hesitance to be sneaky and if they still consider the romulans to be a governement to which the treaty applies... since technicaly it has collapsed who knows.

That was the USS Pegasus, I believe an Oberth class vessel, it was an illegal Federation developed phase cloak. In the TNG episode it was rediscovered, the Enterprise D used it to to escape the asteroid that the Pegasus was trapped in after the Romulans caused a cave in.

So there is precedent for Starfleet having cloaking technology. They just don't normally use it due to the Treaty of Algeron with the Romulans, which I suspect is now void due to the collapse of the Romulan Empire. However I agree that it doesn't seem likely the Federation will use cloaking devices on many of their ships as its just underhanded and sneaky. Most likely escort and tactical ships will be the only ships to use them, and only for special missions. E.G. "Section 31" type missions.

edit:

According to Ask Cryptic June 23, 2009: ( http://www.startrekonline.com/node/294 )

That said, there probably will be circumstances where Federation players will receive limited access to a cloaking device. But it’s not going to be something Federation players can hold onto.

[Hardac]

Skippers? God, I hated those things.


*rages at skippers*

Those things almost drove me crazy...er.



Also I don't like the idea of Feds with cloaks. I know it happened before but I'd like each faction to have their own identifiable characteristics. Besides, Feds have science ships as a counter to cloaks. What does the KDF get? Science ships too?

Why even play Klingon if they're just Starfleet with bad teeth and bony foreheads?

The differences in playstyle give the factions replayability. Replayability equals more sub time which means more money for Cryptic. Why would they shoot themselves in their collective foot?

[sleeplessone]

I just remembered from the last episode of TNG .....

Admiral Will Rikers ship had a cloak and they also had poor relations with the Klingons skirmishes / War

while Picard with the help from Q did some Time jumping on a possible future which was how it ended ....

It seems awfully similar to STO .... :)

[Conman]

The Treaty of Algeron was a peace treaty signed between the United Federation of Planets and the Romulan Star Empire in 2311 on the planet Algeron IV, following the events of the Tomed Incident.

The treaty reinforced and redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone, and made clear that any violations of the Zone without adequate notification, by either side, would be considered an act of war. (TNG: "The Defector"; ENT: "These Are the Voyages...") The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation. Then-Captain Pressman attempted to circumvent this clause in 2358 with the test of an interphase cloaking device developed covertly at least in some part by Starfleet Intelligence aboard the USS Pegasus.

In Q's anti-time future, the Federation possessed and openly used cloaking technology. The Romulan Empire had been conquered by the Klingon Empire, which presumably nullified the Treaty. (TNG: "All Good Things...")

So there truly is a trek president for Starfleet using cloaking tech... question still remains is the romulan goverment still considered instact.

[curtst]

The Treaty of Algeron was a peace treaty signed between the United Federation of Planets and the Romulan Star Empire in 2311 on the planet Algeron IV, following the events of the Tomed Incident.

The treaty reinforced and redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone, and made clear that any violations of the Zone without adequate notification, by either side, would be considered an act of war. (TNG: "The Defector"; ENT: "These Are the Voyages...") The treaty also expressly prohibited the development or use of cloaking device technology by the Federation. Then-Captain Pressman attempted to circumvent this clause in 2358 with the test of an interphase cloaking device developed covertly at least in some part by Starfleet Intelligence aboard the USS Pegasus.

In Q's anti-time future, the Federation possessed and openly used cloaking technology. The Romulan Empire had been conquered by the Klingon Empire, which presumably nullified the Treaty. (TNG: "All Good Things...")

So there truly is a trek president for Starfleet using cloaking tech... question still remains is the romulan goverment still considered instact.

The Federation will not have cloaking in the game. This has been confirmed. The Romulans are still around. They haven't been defeated by the Klingons yet.

[Tanktreads]

The Federation will not have cloaking in the game. This has been confirmed. The Romulans are still around. They haven't been defeated by the Klingons yet.

this is true Zinc has said that the Romulan empire while without their homeplanet still are a powerful force... considering that they need to have an Xpac with romulans in it I guess they will do a battle of the bulge thing.