Polite Request for Captain to be Highest Rank

[frak]

First of all, congratulations to Cryptic for all their hard work and for reaching the Closed Beta phase.

I thought I would start a thread for the development team's consideration; perhaps for the community as a whole.

Over many threads I've seen a theme develop wherein it makes more sense for Captain to be the highest rank achievable, as opposed to Admiral.

This is supported, I think, by the spirit of Star Trek itself. And evidenced directly in dialogue. Don't let them promote off the bridge, and so forth.

This could be done without changing the rank structure overly much. By making Captain the highest rank and adding the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade between that of Ensign and Lieutenant. Which would be the correct order of naval/Starfleet ranks anyway.

So, I just wanted to throw out a polite, respectful request for that to be considered. The community can agree or disagree with me.

Thanks.

[Musterion]

I totally agree.

Don't! Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do *anything* that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.

Maybe it's all just a cryptic hint that STO's universe will be static and unchanging :p

[overlordthor]

I totally agree.



Maybe it's all just a cryptic hint that STO's universe will be static and unchanging :p

Some Admirals maintain command of a ship, especially in times of war *wink*.

Also, future Riker was an Admiral in command of the Enterprise

[Huutini]

I totally agree.



Maybe it's all just a cryptic hint that STO's universe will be static and unchanging :p

Trust me - you'll NEVER get dragged away from your ship in STO, whether you're promoted to Captain, Admiral or God Almighty.

@ OP: please consider to take this discussion into one of the other, uh, 138 threads about this topic.

[Arokh72]

I'll repeat what I've said in another thread about this.

We need to stop thinking of Admiral in terms of military rank, for as far as STO is concerned it's not. Unlike the "real" Trek or even actually military we won't be dragged off to Captain a desk.

Think of Admiral as level 50 for example. Instead of a rank think of it as a guide to what's available to you. As an Admiral you can (possibly) get the opportunity to command a fleet of ships (npc or pc don't know), you get access tot eh highest tier of ships as well as the highest rank of bridge officers.

So in nutshell think of Admiral as a level or guide instead of a military rank.

[aircool]

Ranks of Commodore and above can Captain a ship in RL so I see no reason why they can't in STO.

[mlund05]

i would have prefered to start at ensign and have captain be highest rank, but ill take what i can get.

[Chenchuan]

This is the ONLY complaint I have having never played the game. Regardless of the content, shortly after release people will power to the top. Then 3-4 months later the casual gamers will cactch up. By the end of the fist year everyone will be admiral. The ranks will only be supplied by new subs. So eventually there will be mostly admirals.

Then there is the rank itself. An Admiral doesnt explore the galaxy or go on away missions. He sits in an office and commands fleets and makes bureaucratic decisions. He coordinates the action but isnt in it. It just makes more sense that we would all be captains.

If the intent is for Admirals to be in charge of huge fleets for epic battles with the klingons then I suggest the title Commadore which is more appropriate. We know that rank exists in Starfleet from TOS. Commadore is not permanent rank but is appointed to command a group of ships.

If the idea is that Admiral opens up additional ship options they could just create medals. You see them on the capatins in their dress unifoms. So the more decorated captain you were the more options would open up.

For realism and immersion having 100000s of captains is far more playable.

Make Admiral some 5 year vet award or something

[Arokh72]

i would have prefered to start at ensign and have captain be highest rank, but ill take what i can get.

Actually the tutorial is supposedly our period as Ensign.

[Arokh72]

Ranks of Commodore and above can Captain a ship in RL so I see no reason why they can't in STO.

Commodore was removed from Starfleet ranks in the 2270s. Just look up Commodore in Memory Alpha (can't be bothered linking it on this thread).

[The_Padre]

Ranks of Commodore and above can Captain a ship in RL so I see no reason why they can't in STO.

Plus the Original Series used the rank a fair bit: Memory-Alpha (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Commodore). Maybe the rank of Admiral could be used for the head(s) of the guild-like Fleets they're using.

[Jaxston]

i like it the way they have it.

[Nastee]

they said the content changes once you reach admiral, so not sure how its going to work out...

[tgskull13]

I totally agree.



Maybe it's all just a cryptic hint that STO's universe will be static and unchanging :p

"If I may be so bold...it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is a waste of material."

[CapnBludd]

Let it go, if captain was top rank people would complain there were no admirals - non issue - call yourself captain in your head, and let it go. :o

Start a we want Commodores thread to be different - the admiral issue is a dead horse beaten into thin strips of dry dead horse jerky, not the tasty kind, the kind that stinks like dead horse.:rolleyes:

[Arokh72]

Let it go, if captain was top rank people would complain there were no admirals - non issue - call yourself captain in your head, and let it go. :o

Start a we want Commodores thread to be different - the admiral issue is a dead horse beaten into thin strips of dry dead horse jerky, not the tasty kind, the kind that stinks like dead horse.:rolleyes:

There is a tasty kind of horse jerky?

[Chenchuan]

Commodore was removed from Starfleet ranks in the 2270s. Just look up Commodore in Memory Alpha (can't be bothered linking it on this thread).

ummm.... no it says

The rank of commodore was used by Starfleet until at least the 2270s

At least is the operative term. It doesnt say removed. And in most naval traditions Commadore is not always a permanent rank. People would be made commodore for particular actions and would go back to what ever when that fleet action was over.

The issue for me is that Starfleet doesnt need 100,000 admirals. A 100,000 captains is more realistic.

Also in the long term it makes more sense for them not to have everyone be admiral. what then? there is no advancement, even if its just percieved advancement. They should save it for later when they need to add crap to keep the game fresh. They can always think up new rewards and missions for captains. Captians do what starfleet says. admirals are starfleet. I see them getting boxed in with this dev wise and not leaving any room wiggle room for later on when they might need it for new content or expansions

[aircool]

Commodore was removed from Starfleet ranks in the 2270s. Just look up Commodore in Memory Alpha (can't be bothered linking it on this thread).

Heh, I'm afraid my knowledge of Starfleet ranks is pretty low. Anyway, what about the ranks of non-Star Fleet Officers, you often see high ranking Klingons Captaining a ship into battle.

As an aside...as you know so much about Starfleet ranks (no sarcasm intended). Do they have enlisted personnel onboard Starships, because as far as I know, you never see them in the TV shows. A ship whose crew consists completely of Officers is a recipe for disaster :D

[Arokh72]

I see them getting boxed in with this dev wise and not leaving any room wiggle room for later on when they might need it for new content or expansions

That's the best argument I've seen so far. Even in my way of thinking of an Admiral, sort of like level 50 instead of a rank, they are boxed in the sense of new content, especially since most expansions offer up an extra 10 levels or so.

[Arokh72]

Heh, I'm afraid my knowledge of Starfleet ranks is pretty low. Anyway, what about the ranks of non-Star Fleet Officers, you often see high ranking Klingons Captaining a ship into battle.

As an aside...as you know so much about Starfleet ranks (no sarcasm intended). Do they have enlisted personnel on board Starships, because as far as I know, you never see them in the TV shows. A ship whose crew consists completely of Officers is a recipe for disaster :D

You do have enlisted personnel on board Starfleet ships. The thing is about the shows they generally focus on the best of the best ships so you generally only get the best of the best crew. In the various guides e.t.c they have enlisted personnel as well civilian specialists.

[Rev1021]

admirals do have differnt ranks.

[aircool]

Surely then, rank should be independant of level and based on player population/hours played. After all, in RL, a person may have the military qualifications necessary for a rank in the upper echelons, but will not be promoted until their is a post available. Even then they will be in direct competition with their peers.

To complicate matters, you can often find more experienced Officers at the top of their particular tier whilst less experienced Officers often hold a higher rank than them due to various reasons, with the main one of course, being which branch the Officer in question belongs to.

The only example that comes to mind in the ST universe is Counselor Troi in TNG, who, whilst passing her exams to become a Bridge Officer (with the rank of Commander), severely lacks the experience to hold that rank and position compared to someone who's career has always been in whatever the ST equivalent of the RN's Warfare Branch (Bridge Officers).

[bkovo]

Over many threads I've seen a theme develop wherein it makes more sense for Captain to be the highest rank achievable, as opposed to Admiral.

This is supported, I think, by the spirit of Star Trek itself. And evidenced directly in dialogue. Don't let them promote off the bridge, and so forth.

This could be done without changing the rank structure overly much. By making Captain the highest rank and adding the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade between that of Ensign and Lieutenant. Which would be the correct order of naval/Starfleet ranks anyway.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised they haven't done this already. It would make the people who care about this kind of thing happy. And the people who don't care, don't care.

[shokurai]

this sounds like a immersion role playing type complain, i think its minor, but i can see where the OP is coming from, but at this stage to make a change like that (renaming a tremendous amount of game content) just for immersion and not even a glaring one, i think is asking way way too much, but hey you were polite and your opinion is resonable

[Krai_Rakesh]

Plus the Original Series used the rank a fair bit: Memory-Alpha (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Commodore). Maybe the rank of Admiral could be used for the head(s) of the guild-like Fleets they're using.


I agree

Remove Admiral as a rank for everyone, and yet allow Fleet leaders to obtain this coveted rank. For game play Lieutenant JG could be added to retain the tiers.

This way not everyone is an admiral, but those who put in the added effort of the administrative work running their fleet get this reward.

Not to mention it adds a PVP aspect for both the Federation and the Klingons to advance with "Enemy admirals defeated"

[mirkrim]

but at this stage to make a change like that (renaming a tremendous amount of game content)
People keep saying this, but I don't know how they are getting this information. Cryptic is the only one who can confirm what renaming ranks would involve, and so far they haven't said a thing about this issue. So I don't see this as a valid argument against until it's backed up by some statement from the devs.

[MCDonnell]

Admiral is just a egotistical prestige thing for the immature. The on line gamers and shoot everything in sight players. They have a overbearing NEED to think they are better than others and rank of Admiral does exactly that.

True Star Trek fans would settle for Captain and understand that in the ST genre it takes years and endless accomplishments just to rank up. In Star Trek series and movies, how many Admirals did people see fighting in a ship or exploring? I remember 1 during the Dominion War. Everyone else I saw as Admirals were on star bases, ambassador roles, or SF HQ.

But, let the kids have their egos tickled a bit...they need it because they can't earn it in real life.

[cbenioff]

Agree with the OP. This would make me very happy and would show a willingness to listen to the fans.

[cbenioff]

Seems like it would be a cosmetic change... do a search for text and change where appropriate. Shouldn't be too hard.

I'll add that I think this change would generate more revenue for Cryptic. I know of more than a few people that are on the fence about the game and they think the idea of admirals everywhere is lame and it is making them lose interest in the game. We don't have much else to go on and the Admiral decision sounds like something a non-star trek fan would do.

The fact that its such a small thing is why it looks so bad to make the wrong decision.

Also going to Captain only would help immersion, and long term planning = more revenue.

What if you get a great idea for Admirals 3 years from now and you can't implement it because its already too late. Right now you just have the basic beginnings of the game... keep it simple and keep the fans happy.

I just hope this gets read and we get some feedback on the thought process behind the admiral rank one way or the other... right now we just don't understand the choice and that's part of the problem.

[Aslan_chShran]

First of all, congratulations to Cryptic for all their hard work and for reaching the Closed Beta phase.

I thought I would start a thread for the development team's consideration; perhaps for the community as a whole.

Over many threads I've seen a theme develop wherein it makes more sense for Captain to be the highest rank achievable, as opposed to Admiral.

This is supported, I think, by the spirit of Star Trek itself. And evidenced directly in dialogue. Don't let them promote off the bridge, and so forth.

This could be done without changing the rank structure overly much. By making Captain the highest rank and adding the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade between that of Ensign and Lieutenant. Which would be the correct order of naval/Starfleet ranks anyway.

So, I just wanted to throw out a polite, respectful request for that to be considered. The community can agree or disagree with me.

Thanks.

I actually agree, too. Having every player become Captain rank is already crazy (lol) but having everyone be an Admiral is flat out craaaaazzzzyyyyy!

[Capulet]

Having admirals in the game will happen if we like it or not. Any rank they add to the game will eventually have 50 or 60 k at some point and no matter what the cap is, we will all become it at some point. Correct me if I am wrong but isnt there rank above Admiral in ST cannon? If an admiral is the head of a fleet then what rank commands groups of/all of the fleets? President?

[mirkrim]

Having admirals in the game will happen if we like it or not. Any rank they add to the game will eventually have 50 or 60 k at some point and no matter what the cap is, we will all become it at some point. Correct me if I am wrong but isnt there rank above Admiral in ST cannon? If an admiral is the head of a fleet then what rank commands groups of/all of the fleets? President?
Fleet Admiral is the only rank above Admiral. In the entire Star Trek canon - all series AND movies - we only ever saw 4 fleet admirals, and one of them was the Chief of Starfleet.

So if anyone thinks it's ridiculous to have 80% of players being Admirals, imagine how ridiculous it'll be if they add Fleet Admiral on top of that later.

Fleet Admirals commanding fleets of Admirals.... forget about lowly Captains. I guess Kirk, Picard, and all the other Captain-ranked characters we saw weren't really anything special.

[jeroen84]

In my opinion a captain should be the highest rank as well.

Why? The same arguement why players will be *captaining* starships, and not "play" a Bridge Officer.

Admirals don't fly around in starships all the time, only on special occaisions. Also, its a lot more logical to have thousands of Captains flying around then having thousands of Admirals.

In the case that Cryptic *wants* to have the Admiral rank in, make it so Fleet/Guild leaders with 50+ members are named Admiral.

-Jeroen

[aircool]

In my opinion a captain should be the highest rank as well.

Why? The same arguement why players will be *captaining* starships, and not "play" a Bridge Officer.

Admirals don't fly around in starships all the time, only on special occaisions. Also, its a lot more logical to have thousands of Captains flying around then having thousands of Admirals.

In the case that Cryptic *wants* to have the Admiral rank in, make it so Fleet/Guild leaders with 50+ members are named Admiral.

-Jeroen

You don't often see that many Captains (Rank) either. Many small science vessels etc... are Captained by Lt's, Lt Cmdr's and occasionally Cmdr's.

[jeroen84]

You don't often see that many Captains (Rank) either. Many small science vessels etc... are Captained by Lt's, Lt Cmdr's and occasionally Cmdr's.

True, especially for the smaller vessels. (Which corresponds nicely to the advancement in STO.

However, how many Admirals are in Starfleet compared to Captains? Much much less.

Personally, I wouldnt want to be an Admiral if it just means a normal progression from a Captain, with it being the last step before the endgame. In the endgame, as it is now, everyone will be running around being Admirals.

Thats not very star-trekkie.