Dev Chat Transcript, October 20th - Player Progression

[Zoberraz]

Here are the questions and answers given for those whom missed the Dev Chat.

Questions are in CYAN while answers are in GREEN. Non-pertinent text was filtered out.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> Hello everyone, and welcome to today's dev chat! This week we're talking about player progression. With us today is Steve "Snix" Nix, one of our erstwhile systems designers. If you have questions you'd like to ask, please ask them in #stoquestions. You can talk about the chat in #talktrek

<Bizarro_Rekhan> Here we go!


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Zoberraz> I would like to know how race selection (beyond cosmetics) changes a character. For example, what gameplay differences will a human and a vulcan science-oriented captains have?

<Cryptic_Snix> Race selection (or species selection as we refer to it) offers Species Traits. Most species have one or more Traits that are always gained, while allowing the player to chose a few from the species list to customize their character.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Arokh72> You've given us a hint at the engineering side of things, can have some hints for the other professions such as Science. For example will we have medical as a science tree..think Dr Crusher and the USS Pasteur?

<Cryptic_Snix> There is a medical branch of the Science career, as well as various classes of science vessel to captain. Dr. Crusher and the USS Pasteur is a great example of this.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Deltab> Can one go from a Tactical ship to a Cruiser and then back while they are leveling form Commander, to Captain, then to Admiral?

<Cryptic_Snix> Absolutely. Your choice of ship to captain is up to you.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <ExAstris> Is there a point at which a player gets diminishing or capped returns for skill point accumulation? If so, would it be easier to make a new character and crew to get a fully skilled escort ship, or would it be faster to cross train a captain already skilled in engineer/science (and deal with not having the innate class skills or any of the associat [snip]

<Cryptic_Snix> There is a limit to skill point accumulation, but it is not designed to overly restrictive. Creating a new character in STO should only be necessary to try out another career path, rather than trying to rebuild your original character with a different spec.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <JupiterJeremy> Q: We know there are plans to allow player captains to respec. Will there be a respec system in place for Boffs, too?

<Cryptic_Snix> You can retrain your Bridge Officers in new abilities throughout your captain's career. They do not 'respec' per se (by respending their points), but can be retrained. We want players to collect a variety of officers to build their crew, rather than respec the same few over and over.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Elveon> Will the ground classes be in some way connected to the space careers/abilities? e.g., can you build your Tactical Officer which is 100% tactical in space but on ground 100% medic?

<Cryptic_Snix> Your choice of career for your captain defines your abilities as an individual on the ground. So a Tactical Captain will always have tactical abilities for ground play. In space, your abilities are the sum of you and your officers/crew so you can focus your skill points in other disciplines like Engineering and Science.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <IT_IS_GREEN> Will our NPCs always be with us? I mean, will we ever have some sort of thing where our "Riker" leaves to become Captain and we break in a new guy?

<Cryptic_Snix> Advancing your bridge officers to Captain has interesting game play options that we are exploring.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Zalacious> Going back to what Snix said "There is a limit to skill point accumulation, but it is not designed to overly restrictive. Creating a new character in STO should only be necessary to try out another career path, rather than trying to rebuild your original character with a different spec." Does that mean one will NOT be able to max all skills like what previously said?

<Cryptic_Snix> In regard to the skill point limit, as we continue to develop STO more skills and abilities may become available to captains. The skill point limit is in place to prevent players from 'overspending' before new choices become available and to make those choices a bit more meaningful.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Veggiesama> Is there a "sidekicking" option for experienced players to join up with inexperienced players?

<Cryptic_Snix> We will be offering a version of "sidekicking" in STO and encourage player groups of various experience to play together.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <blarneystone> Will it cost more (action points, or whatever the progression points are called) for a Engineer class to buy a Tactical Ship and vice versa.

<Cryptic_Snix> The cost for acquiring a class of starship isn't determined by your own career choice. We are encouraging players to experiment with different Captain/Ship Class combinations.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Dominion1971> In respect to player progression, in your past City Of Games... there was a very nice Badges / Achievement system in place to reward players for doing "other" things then just combat.. Such as Exploration badges and many others.. Will STO have a similar system in place to make the game all the more fun to play?

<Cryptic_Snix> STO will offer a wide variety of achievements for all types of play. This will be a great way to introduce IP reference awards for players to further immerse them in the Star Trek universe.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Qweequeg> In ground combat will we eventually progress to the point where we can "one shot" opponents?

<Cryptic_Snix> In STO ground combat, players can momentarily Expose their enemies by using area of effect weapon attacks or kit abilities. When an enemy is Exposed, they are vulnerable to Exploit weapon attacks or kit abilities that deliver significant damage which can effectively "one shot".


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Kelesh> In Regards to player progression and the Genesis Program. Should players who spend the majority of their time exploring Expect to develop their captain and bridge officers at a significantly slower pace than players who play through the episodic content?

<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.


<Bizarro_Rekhan> And that's about it for us today, folks. Thanks a bunch for making it out. Be sure to check the official site for a transcript of today's chat. We'll see you again soon. Also: Be sure to stop by tomorrow at 11:30 a.m. PDT for trivia. Winners receive a beta key!

[Chartor]

Nice info guys, cheers for taking the time to hold this IRC session!

[srkuse82]

Huzzah!!! Good stuff

[Swordopolis]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.

Interesting...

[Zoberraz]

We've got a precise mention about Species Traits. I was expecting a more direct answer that would say what traits a human and a vulcan would have - but it looks like Snix dodged that!

Well, now that the term is known, we can be more specific about those questions on the next Dev Chat.

[gair22]

i'm glad that a custom species will be able to pick which traits you can get at least.

[Zoberraz]

Yeah Swordopolis. It's good to know that as you rise in the ranks you don't just end up with better skills and a bigger ship... and that's all.

That Starfleet relies more and more on your experience is nice.

[Manx]

An interesting read this. Looks like Admiral wasn't included for no reason after all; very interesting indeed :)

[osena]

nice one thanx

[Nestro]

i'm glad that a custom species will be able to pick which traits you can get at least.

Maybe i gonna make one third vulcan, one third human, one third Ocampa :)
I am really excited what we will be able to creat!

[Nastee]

yea nice info guys, loving the bit about admirals game play changing like that, gunna be wicked!

[Swea]

Really looking foward to Admiral gameplay :)

[Phunix]

It sounds as if being an Admiral carries a bunch of responsibilities.
Is Admiral a different type of progression beyond captain? Can you lose rank? Can you refuse promotion to Admiral?

[Darkthunder]

Can you refuse promotion to Admiral?

A very good question imho. In the words of the late great Captain Kirk:

"Don't let them promote you, don't let them transfer you, don't let them do ANYTHING that takes you off the bridge of your ship, because while your there... you can make a difference."

Ofcourse, the possibility of an "Admiral Riker"-type character commanding a starship still exists I suppose.

[Paulo999]

hmm admiral.. starfleets ****ed then..

[JoJimGregory]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <IT_IS_GREEN> Will our NPCs always be with us? I mean, will we ever have some sort of thing where our "Riker" leaves to become Captain and we break in a new guy?

<Cryptic_Snix> Advancing your bridge officers to Captain has interesting game play options that we are exploring.

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

[ZeframCochrane]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <IT_IS_GREEN> Will our NPCs always be with us? I mean, will we ever have some sort of thing where our "Riker" leaves to become Captain and we break in a new guy?

<Cryptic_Snix> Advancing your bridge officers to Captain has interesting game play options that we are exploring.


I think we may be looking at the possability that a single player could control a fleet.

[Elboulevardo]

the points about Admiral gameplay and the possibility of promoting one of your BO's to captain w/interesting gameplay mechanics really intrigues me!

overally great info session!! :D

[Kayos]

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Very cool possiblity's.

[wolfing]

i'm glad that a custom species will be able to pick which traits you can get at least.
But then, I guess most people will play 'custom species' unless by pure chance one of the normal 'species' happens to have the advantages you want.
It'd be more balanced if there were trade-offs, for example, if 'pure species' had +2 to two set stats, while custom species had +1 to three stats of your choosing (stats, skills, whatever). Or to put it in skill talk:
Humans: Khaan scream, pizza making, skinny dipping.
Vulcans: Nerve pinch, logical reasoning, no emotion penalties
Ferengi: trade advantages, superior hearing, increased NPC network

Custom race: Choose any 2 advantages.

[Cepheus]

Well, seeing that Admiral game play will be significantly different somewhat appeases me regarding the top rank being admiral not captain. I might just stick with a tier 4 ship and forgo the admiralty path with the majority of my characters and just have one Admiral to keep that part of game play unique to just of my characters. A way of personally making it rarer. :rolleyes:

[DukeNukemTX]

I was thinking something along the lines of 1/2 android, 1/2 andorian

[Zoberraz]

An Andorian Borg? ^_^;

[mirkrim]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.
Thank you Peregrine for asking the dreaded Admiral question. I've been pretty vocal about my disappointment regarding Admiral as the highest rank, but this strikes me as a logical justification. If only they'd just come out and explained it earlier :P

[rick273]

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

I am sure i read somewhere that they frowned on the idea of pets controling ships as it might discourage player interaction if people can do the higher lvl group missions solo with pet fleets.

but i agree I like the idea myself. :)

Sarris

[rick273]

Thank you Peregrine for asking the dreaded Admiral question. I've been pretty vocal about my disappointment regarding Admiral as the highest rank, but this strikes me as a logical justification. If only they'd just come out and explained it earlier :P

me too ... i keep on posting questions but they never get answered ... I'm only a junior member :(

but i guess having admiral play 80-90% Fleets would be okay ... but I doubt it will be that much.

I still think Captain should be the highest Rank.

Sarris

[nowich]

Nice, nice.

can't wait to get ST:O in my hands :D

[Wardog00]

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

I like this idea very much. I and some others may be reading into it a bit but, this would be awesome.


<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.

I like this aspect very much. This game is looking better and better. Cryptic is turning this Trek fan from being skeptical about this game into a huge groupie.

[STNET]

Thanks again for this information. Can't wait :)

[kkmccall]

I posted on the other, identical, thread - but this one seems to be the most active ...

I am concerned that Admiral Gameplay is nearly all Group.

I can see a lot of people here are excited about this, but what if you just don't have time to group? What if you are having to go afk alot & can't currently group, or if you just want to log on & fancy some solo play?

Does this mean, once you gain Admiral that solo play is no longer viable?:confused:

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

I am sure i read somewhere that they frowned on the idea of pets controling ships as it might discourage player interaction if people can do the higher lvl group missions solo with pet fleets.

but i agree I like the idea myself. :)

Sarris

Yeah but that's exactly what came to mind when I read that answer, which would be pretty cool. I suppose for gameplay reasons they would probably limit it to one or two pet ships.

[dudemanrock1]

Thanks for this IRC chat! Gives out quite a bit of Information!

[gair22]

But then, I guess most people will play 'custom species' unless by pure chance one of the normal 'species' happens to have the advantages you want.
It'd be more balanced if there were trade-offs, for example, if 'pure species' had +2 to two set stats, while custom species had +1 to three stats of your choosing (stats, skills, whatever). Or to put it in skill talk:
Humans: Khaan scream, pizza making, skinny dipping.
Vulcans: Nerve pinch, logical reasoning, no emotion penalties
Ferengi: trade advantages, superior hearing, increased NPC network

Custom race: Choose any 2 advantages.

I was thinking that, since they might encourage people to be one of the preselected.

[Tain]

I posted on the other, identical, thread - but this one seems to be the most active ...

I am concerned that Admiral Gameplay is nearly all Group.

I can see a lot of people here are excited about this, but what if you just don't have time to group? What if you are having to go afk alot & can't currently group, or if you just want to log on & fancy some solo play?

Does this mean, once you gain Admiral that solo play is no longer viable?:confused:

Thats how I read it too. Sounds like a fancy way of saying you will need a group to do alot of the admiral stuff.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

But the question is, will that group have to be a player group, or can you request reinforcements from Starfleet to help you through the mission? (In the form of NPC ships.)

[ABushey]

Thank you for the update.

[SIMONLEV]

[QUOTE=Zoberraz;852552]



<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Kelesh> In Regards to player progression and the Genesis Program. Should players who spend the majority of their time exploring Expect to develop their captain and bridge officers at a significantly slower pace than players who play through the episodic content?

<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.


This is a good idea for there are people who would be interested in this game even if it were a 1 player game. Hopefully though the devs will give more incentive to not go solo though, as to how they do it...

[kkmccall]

Thats how I read it too. Sounds like a fancy way of saying you will need a group to do alot of the admiral stuff.


So ... if you enjoy playing Solo ... STO comes to an end as soon as you reach Admiral, it would seem :mad:




[QUOTE=Zoberraz;852552]

<Cryptic_Snix> ... to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like..

Except Solo at Admiral level.

[CH0Z0]

Looking interesting from here.
Though playing solo, even at Admiral level, does interest me. Hopefully it can be done optionally.

[mistharm]

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

This would make me *so* happy.

One of the things that makes STO attractive to me (on top of the awesome license) is the ground combat focus on having a 'squad' essentially. The idea of doing the same in space at high levels would be fantastic.

[six4nova]

That would be flippin sweet! This game seemed a little too easy at first, but now it's looking like it will keep you working towards that next goal and next cool BOFF.

[chrisdiminie]

Thats how I read it too. Sounds like a fancy way of saying you will need a group to do alot of the admiral stuff.

Did they say it couldn't be an NPC fleet? Maybe a mix of NPCs and players?

[ValkerOmega]

The said that they were 'exploring' the idea of promoting an officer, but didn't say you actually could. Personally I think it would be an awesome idea, but only if your an admiral, and preferably only one pet ship. An admiral has pull, but to be in pvp and get destroyed because the other guy has a small armada would be rather agitating.

and I don't think that being an admiral ends solo play. I think that would be the perfect time to shift my focus from episodic content to exploration to me. im sure you'll be able to explore solo and what a better person to represent Star fleet then an Admiral.

[Kinjiru]

Did they say it couldn't be an NPC fleet? Maybe a mix of NPCs and players?

That's how I took it. Cyptic's pretty good about not forcing a player into groups. So far in CO, I haven't run into anything that I couldn't solo if I wanted to. In other words, they set up most missions so that you could solo if you prefer (but you'd probably have to be a few levels higher to compensate), but group play is fun too. The exception being Open Missions. I haven't been able to solo one yet. (But they're more fun with a bunch of people anyway.)

Basically, they've designed CO to be fun for grouping or soloing, without forcing you to do either. I suspect (and hope that) STO will be similar. Personally, there are just times when I want to be in a group, and others where I just want to do my own thing. :)

[Aklidien]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Zalacious> Going back to what Snix said "There is a limit to skill point accumulation, but it is not designed to overly restrictive. Creating a new character in STO should only be necessary to try out another career path, rather than trying to rebuild your original character with a different spec." Does that mean one will NOT be able to max all skills like what previously said?

<Cryptic_Snix> In regard to the skill point limit, as we continue to develop STO more skills and abilities may become available to captains. The skill point limit is in place to prevent players from 'overspending' before new choices become available and to make those choices a bit more meaningful.


In the Oct 19th Ask Cryptic, we were told that "Inevitably, yes, it will be possible for someone to max out a character, but by then we’ll likely have added more skills." Now are they changing their minds, and saying we can't max out a character?

I'm hoping that we can still max out our characters. And if not, then I hope they stop giving us false promises =/

[Zepath]

Yeah, I'm thinking, as others here are, that Admiral rank was just defined as the "Raiding rank" for the game.

I see people here interpreting his response to mean you'll get a fleet together to go do your mission ... or even that you'll have more than one ship.

I read it to mean, your missions just became raids.

Nothing like 40 Admirals in a 40 ship fleet eh?

[kkmccall]

Yeah, I'm thinking, as others here are, that Admiral rank was just defined as the "Raiding rank" for the game....

Which, to some people, means that Admiral = Game Over

I have several max characters in several mmo's & have never, & will never, 'Raid'. Not my 'Scene' :cool:

[syberghost]

So ... if you enjoy playing Solo ... STO comes to an end as soon as you reach Admiral, it would seem

Assuming you only want to do one type of content, the episodes. If you intentionally limit yourself like that, you will find that yes, you have succeeded in limiting yourself, it appears.

Cryptic will in fact not force you to have fun, if you work hard to find a corner to stand in and pout.

[Norvo]

Yeah, I'm thinking, as others here are, that Admiral rank was just defined as the "Raiding rank" for the game.

I see people here interpreting his response to mean you'll get a fleet together to go do your mission ... or even that you'll have more than one ship.

I read it to mean, your missions just became raids.

Nothing like 40 Admirals in a 40 ship fleet eh?

Yeah, they said before someplace that they didn't expect most "casual" players to reach admiral rank or something. Many people took that to mean that it took a lot of time to get there. But I understood it that many casuals wouldn't do the content, i.e, raids.

[SeanNewBoy]

Nice info but we definitely need more info on Admiral play.

[kkmccall]

Assuming you only want to do one type of content, the episodes. If you intentionally limit yourself like that, you will find that yes, you have succeeded in limiting yourself, it appears.


Well, I don't 'Raid', I don't PvP. Neither holds any interest to me whatsoever.

If I can still 'Explore' without having to get a 'Group', then that's fine. :cool:

[Trowa824]

Good read, can't wait to get even more info about sto.

[Norvo]

Which, to some people, means that Admiral = Game Over

I have several max characters in several mmo's & have never, & will never, 'Raid'. Not my 'Scene' :cool:

I thought so too, but I eventually got into early lvl 80 raids in WOW. Although I was healing, I was basically filling up a needed space in the raid group as my enchants were, at that time, far below what almost everyone else had.

For me, its more a matter of how much time the raids take, as well as "gear checks" not group coordination or difficulty. I can handle something like a 30-45 minute raid easily. But many take hours, and not everyone can devote that much time to it.

[blackfx]

Thanks for the new info.

[thgor]

Good Stuff, Cant wait!!! :D

[blackfx]

Well, I don't 'Raid', I don't PvP. Neither holds any interest to me whatsoever.

If I can still 'Explore' without having to get a 'Group', then that's fine. :cool:


I'm like you and I don't like to raid or group.
PVP is like going up against some ego and grouping is like driving in traffic, neither of which I'm particularly entertained.

[Zepath]

Yeah, they said before someplace that they didn't expect most "casual" players to reach admiral rank or something. Many people took that to mean that it took a lot of time to get there. But I understood it that many casuals wouldn't do the content, i.e, raids.

Well, just to clarify ... I like raid content. I'm not disappointed by this.

To me, "Raid content" means guilds (fleets) are important, socializing is important, knowing how to play the game is important, and extremely tactical game-play is in store for us.

Why? Because raid content fails if the above isn't realized in the game.

I know there are people out there that are staunchly opposed to raid content ... my brother-in-law hated raiding content, at every level. I can't count the hours I had to listen to him drone on about unfair and un-interesting raiding was, how it demanded so much time. On and on.

I finally asked him to give me one week ... just come raid with our guild for one week. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I can't get him out of WoW now, he's a hard core raider, and his game-play went from 5-10 hours a week to 20-30 hours a week. He doesn't watch TV anymore ... he plays WoW.

Now, raiding in STO isn't necessarily what raiding in WoW was ... so people on both sides should hold their opinions ... non-raiders may love it, and hard-core raiders might hate it. :)

[vegetta]

i like that you can avance equally in any play style

[Flatfingers]

Well.

There was this:

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.

Whoa, whoa... by "fleet" do you mean that player Admirals will be able to manage a group of NPC ships?

Or does "fleet" still mean a bunch of player ships, such that Admiral-level gameplay is actually just "raid" content by another name and therefore (as in other games) is off-limits to solo players?

I'm with Katarine and Zepath; it would be very helpful to get a clarification on whether "fleet" for Admirals means pet ships or player ships.

But then there was this:

<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.

/applause

We're still waiting to see what this "exploration" gameplay looks like. But assuming it's interesting enough to do, the word that it will be given equal weight in terms of character advancement is definitely one of the more positive things I've heard from Cryptic lately.

--Flatfingers

[kkmccall]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Arokh72> You've given us a hint at the engineering side of things, ....

Can anyone provide a link for this 'Hint at Engineering', please?

I've not seen anything about Engineering yet.

[lichbane1]

i find it very weird that you cannot put cannons on a constituition class ship, because it seems like you really could, unless you are keeping things to specific ships.

[DaCrimp]

Nice, glad to know that when I want to explore I'll advance the same as missions and pvp

Keep the info comin!!! =P

[Norvo]

Well, just to clarify ... I like raid content. I'm not disappointed by this.

To me, "Raid content" means guilds (fleets) are important, socializing is important, knowing how to play the game is important, and extremely tactical game-play is in store for us.


Yeah, I like it too, to a point. What I don't have much interest in is the time required, and *especially* tiered raiding/ladders or whatever, where you get gear, spend all your gold enchanting it, and then replacing it when the new raid comes out and you get better equipment. To me, that is a rat race/grind far worse than killing 100s of boars, because you're losing your gold too.

At that point, I'd still rather roll an alt. And Even though STO isn't strictly class based, compared to other games, I'd still do that here.

[Jeck-Kar.Rathimon]

The more I read, the more impressed I am with this game.

Tomorrow's trivia has also caught my attention as well. :cool:

[Levry]

Thanks for posting, great to be able to check out what was siadu for those of us that were not able to make it.

[qwil015]

Multi ship or Fleet of ships could also mean group play verse raid play, or solo play. So yes some clarification would be nice.

[Loekii]

In the Oct 19th Ask Cryptic, we were told that "Inevitably, yes, it will be possible for someone to max out a character, but by then we’ll likely have added more skills." Now are they changing their minds, and saying we can't max out a character?

I'm hoping that we can still max out our characters. And if not, then I hope they stop giving us false promises =/

Having followed and watch development unfold, I have noticed that Cryptic is pretty good at 'not making false promises'.

For example, when they talked about space being 3D, I took it to mean 'like space', rather than 'like Submarines'. Both are 3D, but they are not the same. So it was my error in assumption to what Cryptic was actually saying.

Odds are, your interpretation of what has been said it a little off, and when the same information is seen from Cryptic's POV, they are not in conflict.

[Aethilgar]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Kelesh> In Regards to player progression and the Genesis Program. Should players who spend the majority of their time exploring Expect to develop their captain and bridge officers at a significantly slower pace than players who play through the episodic content?

<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.

Including Klingons? :p

[Zepath]

Yeah, I like it too, to a point. What I don't have much interest in is the time required, and *especially* tiered raiding/ladders or whatever, where you get gear, spend all your gold enchanting it, and then replacing it when the new raid comes out and you get better equipment. To me, that is a rat race/grind far worse than killing 100s of boars, because you're losing your gold too.

At that point, I'd still rather roll an alt. And Even though STO isn't strictly class based, compared to other games, I'd still do that here.

I understand ... but the problem isn't in the content or the raiding ... its in the guilds that do it.

Casual players need to find casual raiding guilds, that's all.

Hard core players are always going to be hard-core ... you just aren't going to change that. You could build the best "care-bear" game in the world, and the hard-core players will just figure out how to chop down the forest and build a fort.

The key to making any MMO work for you is to make friends, and make those friends with people who share the same interests in the game that you do ... at the same level of intensity.

My wife used to be in a raiding guild that raided 1 night a week, and if it took more than 3 hours, they stopped where they were.

LOL! I never understood it, but she loved it.

[Norvo]

Can anyone provide a link for this 'Hint at Engineering', please?

I've not seen anything about Engineering yet.

There isn't much, but here: http://www.startrekonline.com/player_progression

Includes a bit about engineering:

For example, an Engineering officer has the option at lower ranks to decide between focusing on Maintenance or Modification. (He could also generalize in both, if he were to choose to do so.) Let’s say he decided to work exclusively on Modification, and maxes his Lieutenant Modification skill. When he becomes a Lieutenant Commander, new, more refined skills will become available in both the Modification and Maintenance categories. He then could switch his focus to Maintenance if he wanted, and the bonuses from his Lieutenant Modification skills would still apply for the remainder of the character’s existence. By the time the officer reaches the rank of Commander, he can choose to spend his skill points by specializing in any of three branches in his Engineering career.

We also know that, in space, Cruisers have more engineering Bridge Officer slots, and larger warp cores so you can transfer more power, etc...

Edit:
I don't know if its been stated by cryptic, but I would think that engineers would also be able to place force shields on the ground. I know they said they were in the game. And one of the screenshots showed a character next to some kind of turret or robot that was getting beamed in. That might be an engineering thing.

[kkmccall]

There isn't much, but here: http://www.startrekonline.com/player_progression

Includes a bit about engineering:



We also know that, in space, Cruisers have more engineering Bridge Officer slots, and larger warp cores so you can transfer more power, etc...

Thanks for taking the time to get this info Norvo :)



Including Klingons? :p

hehe, this would certainly please alot of the non-pvp Klingon players, if it is the case :)

[mirkrim]

I am concerned that Admiral Gameplay is nearly all Group.

I can see a lot of people here are excited about this, but what if you just don't have time to group? What if you are having to go afk alot & can't currently group, or if you just want to log on & fancy some solo play?

Does this mean, once you gain Admiral that solo play is no longer viable?:confused:
I doubt they'd go that extreme, but IMO this is one of the problems of making the top tier ships restricted to Admiral. If players could get Tier 5 at Captain, then the option to rank up to Admiral would be completely open. I'd be able to get a Sovereign-class ship, stay as Captain, and style my gameplay to lean more toward soloing. As it stands, however, if I ever want to experience Tier 5 ships, I'll have to go to Admiral and then get stuck in mostly-group gameplay.

If Cryptic backpedals on this and makes a whole bunch of solo content for Admirals, then we'll be right back at square one where there is essentially no difference in gameplay between Admirals and Lieutenants, except that Admirals do more damage.

[Cohas]

thanks for the info. Can't wait for release

[kkmccall]

If Cryptic backpedals on this and makes a whole bunch of solo content for Admirals, then we'll be right back at square one where there is essentially no difference in gameplay between Admirals and Lieutenants, except that Admirals do more damage.

All I'd want is the option to still explore solo at Admiral, still have a reason to log my Admiral on & be able to do stuff.

I'm not opposed to teaming, it's just that my schedule can get very tight & I may have to go afk for chunks of time that really doesn't fit into 'Group Play'. I team with friends in other mmo's because they know my schedule & understand. Sometimes I may be playing & have to go afk for 10 - 20 mins .. come back for 5/10 mins & then have to go afk again for another 5 - 10 mins, come back for another 20 mins, then have to go afk again for 20 mins, etc. Really doesn't fit into Group Play.
Would you want me in your team in that situation?

If this isn't possible at Admiral, then I don't want to become Admiral & will happily stay as a Captain - if I had that option :)

[Koba]

All I'd want is the option to still explore solo at Admiral, still have a reason to log my Admiral on & be able to do stuff.

I'm not opposed to teaming, it's just that my schedule can get very tight & I may have to go afk for chunks of time that really doesn't fit into 'Group Play'. I team with friends in other mmo's because they know my schedule & understand. Sometimes I may be playing & have to go afk for 10 - 20 mins .. come back for 5/10 mins & then have to go afk again for another 5 - 10 mins, come back for another 20 mins, then have to go afk again for 20 mins, etc. Really doesn't fit into Group Play.
Would you want me in your team in that situation?

If this isn't possible at Admiral, then I don't want to become Admiral & will happily stay as a Captain - if I had that option :)

I really doubt this is the case. I bet it will just be that there will be more chances to run group missions at admiral than before.

[mirkrim]

If this isn't possible at Admiral, then I don't want to become Admiral & will happily stay as a Captain - if I had that option :)
Yeah... currently that option doesn't exist, unless you're content with being locked out of tier 5 ships, including some of the most iconic ships in the franchise.

[kkmccall]

I've just had an idea ...

... thinking back over what has been said about gaining ranks... if I stop placing my Skill Points into my skills shortly before Admiral, I can stay a Captain permanently :rolleyes:

So, I guess I have solved the problem. I'll never get to fly the Tier 5 Ships, but I can still play, which is better than Admiral = Game Over :)

[Replica]

If this isn't possible at Admiral, then I don't want to become Admiral & will happily stay as a Captain - if I had that option :)

I'd think it would be well within canon to have a way to get your Admiral "demoted" to Post-Captain. I think Kirk did it, so he could go explore solo just like Katarine wants to. I think having a "demotion episode" available from early on in the Admiral missions would be a good option. Then the it would also mark the players who really like to group, and it could become common place for anyone LFG to hail an Admiral. I like to group and would look forward to easy grouping because of a distinction between Admirals and Post-Captains. But I think it makes sense to have some of the deepest space exploration done by the best (T5) ships and the most experienced (Post)Captains.

[scottage00]

I really don't think that as soon as you hit Admiral you'll suddenly lose all ability to solo. This is especially true if we can promote our BOs to captain their own ship. After all the episodic content has to run out sometime even if we can redo old episodes. However the exploration content will probably still be solo, as well as repeatable episodes and individual missions.

This is especially true if you can promote BOs to be the captains of their own ships, which is a concept that I really don't like. If you can only do this for raid content then it's okay but if suddenly everywhere you go you're toting around two galaxy class starships and an intrepid, it sort of ruins the feel for it.

[Zomeguy]

I understand what people are saying based on the transcripts but I would think Cryptic would give more options of things to do at Admiral instead of restricting you to do certain types of play. I would hope that they mean you would have access to more group/raid play but still have the exploration and solo play available at lower levels. Unless I'm totally misundestanding what everyones saying. :D

[billybob442]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Zoberraz> I would like to know how race selection (beyond cosmetics) changes a character. For example, what gameplay differences will a human and a vulcan science-oriented captains have?

<Cryptic_Snix> Race selection (or species selection as we refer to it) offers Species Traits. Most species have one or more Traits that are always gained, while allowing the player to chose a few from the species list to customize their character.

This sounds like some species traits are set while others are not. A good idea as it will allow the main races to be customized to a player's liking to a certain extent. This will keep everyone from having to go out and create a custom race to get the abilities they want.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Peregrine_Falcon>Will Admiral level game-play be significantly different than lower ranking game-play. And if not, then why not?

<Cryptic_Snix> As you earn higher ranks, Starfleet becomes more dependent on you to be the deciding factor in defending the Federation against its greatest threats. As an Admiral, your missions often call upon you to gather a fleet of ships to tackle a challenge rather than a single ship.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <IT_IS_GREEN> Will our NPCs always be with us? I mean, will we ever have some sort of thing where our "Riker" leaves to become Captain and we break in a new guy?

<Cryptic_Snix> Advancing your bridge officers to Captain has interesting game play options that we are exploring.
All I'd want is the option to still explore solo at Admiral, still have a reason to log my Admiral on & be able to do stuff.

I'm not opposed to teaming, it's just that my schedule can get very tight & I may have to go afk for chunks of time that really doesn't fit into 'Group Play'. I team with friends in other mmo's because they know my schedule & understand. Sometimes I may be playing & have to go afk for 10 - 20 mins .. come back for 5/10 mins & then have to go afk again for another 5 - 10 mins, come back for another 20 mins, then have to go afk again for 20 mins, etc. Really doesn't fit into Group Play.
Would you want me in your team in that situation?

If this isn't possible at Admiral, then I don't want to become Admiral & will happily stay as a Captain - if I had that option :)

Sounds to me like Admiral is extremely group-centric. But the idea of giving ships to your Boffs would go a long way to completing those half filled raiding parties. No doubt that's why they're looking at the option.

The question to me is, where do these ships come from? Will we be restricted to the ships already in our "stable" or can we assign them to any type of vessel?

A very good question imho. In the words of the late great Captain Kirk:

"Don't let them promote you, don't let them transfer you, don't let them do ANYTHING that takes you off the bridge of your ship, because while your there... you can make a difference."

I love that quote. I notice the devs use the phrase "offered a promotion", which implies to me that you don't HAVE to take the new rank. Now, I don't normally role play in computer games (table top RP all the time just not on comps) but I'm leaning toward it in STO, and the character I have in mind would pretty much live by that quote. A man like that would look on Admiral as a curse.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Dominion1971> In respect to player progression, in your past City Of Games... there was a very nice Badges / Achievement system in place to reward players for doing "other" things then just combat.. Such as Exploration badges and many others.. Will STO have a similar system in place to make the game all the more fun to play?

<Cryptic_Snix> STO will offer a wide variety of achievements for all types of play. This will be a great way to introduce IP reference awards for players to further immerse them in the Star Trek universe.

Here's hoping they have some special achievements open only to the main four races on each side. I like the idea of giving minor rewards to encourage playing canon species over custom ones - nothing that makes a noticeable game play difference just a way of keeping them significant.

[billybob442]

I've just had an idea ...

... thinking back over what has been said about gaining ranks... if I stop placing my Skill Points into my skills shortly before Admiral, I can stay a Captain permanently :rolleyes:

So, I guess I have solved the problem. I'll never get to fly the Tier 5 Ships, but I can still play, which is better than Admiral = Game Over :)

Funny thing is, I was thinking the same thing.

Though they did say "offered the promotion", so maybe you have the option of refusing it. If so, I think I will.

[Yvesturcotte]

Whoa, whoa... by "fleet" do you mean that player Admirals will be able to manage a group of NPC ships?

Or does "fleet" still mean a bunch of player ships, such that Admiral-level gameplay is actually just "raid" content by another name and therefore (as in other games) is off-limits to solo players?


Was thinking the same, i think the admiral promotion needs some explanation now :confused:

Nice info btw

[ironcrane]

Very informative....But now I want more, more , more :D

[Trekkie]

i'm glad that a custom species will be able to pick which traits you can get at least.

I totally agree. This was something that I was kind of curious as to how it would be implemented, and this is exactly how I would prefer for it to work so it is good to have confirmation that it is indeed how the issue will be handled in-game. I am really intrigued by custom species and am anxiously anticipating being able to create my own.

[chrisdiminie]

I've just had an idea ...

... thinking back over what has been said about gaining ranks... if I stop placing my Skill Points into my skills shortly before Admiral, I can stay a Captain permanently :rolleyes:

So, I guess I have solved the problem. I'll never get to fly the Tier 5 Ships, but I can still play, which is better than Admiral = Game Over :)

Same. I hope they add "Admiral Level" Exploration content that doesn't require groups of ships.
That "Post-Captain" idea was quite good I thought.
What I read sounded like Admiral Level Tactical or Combat content. I really think with all they've done to stress how we "can advance equally well no matter what we want to do" they won't suddenly at the end force us all into Combat Fleet actions.

[Zepath]

Same. I hope they add "Admiral Level" Exploration content that doesn't require groups of ships.
That "Post-Captain" idea was quite good I thought.
What I read sounded like Admiral Level Tactical or Combat content. I really think with all they've done to stress how we "can advance equally well no matter what we want to do" they won't suddenly at the end force us all into Combat Fleet actions.

Q: So what will the end-game content be for those players not interested in combat?

Zinc: Oh, we have plenty in the works for them. We realize that many of our players won't be interested in combat. So we have arranged for scavenger hunts, easter-egg hunts, lots of Fed-Ex type missions, and my favorite, Starship soccer!

j/k

[mirkrim]

I love that quote. I notice the devs use the phrase "offered a promotion", which implies to me that you don't HAVE to take the new rank.
Except that Tier 5 ships are tied to the rank of Admiral, so if you ever want to experience those ships, then yes, you DO have to take the new rank. It's just like gear in WoW, where the game funnels you into doing certain things (raids, pvp) if you want to be at all competitive. Sure, you can choose to be worse than everyone else, but honestly who plays a combat game so they can lose? And Cryptic has specifically said that combat will factor heavily in player progression.

[bkovo]

I'm not sure that horse is completely dead Cryptic, maybe you should beat it a little more?


In all seriousness, can we stop with the player progression Q&A's? Maybe move on to PvP or fleet content?

[Dominion1971]

I am excited about the Badges system.. I LOVED the City of Badge system.. I was a badge *****... and I will be one in STO too.. I love it!! very excted!!

[Swordopolis]

I found this to be really interesting, and it got me to wondering if they have future plans to allow an Officer promoted to Captain to command sister ships. So that in effect, similar to having pets in ground combat, we could have pet ships in space for the elder game.

How cool would it be, for instance, to be an Admiral in a Cruiser with a few promoted Bridge Officers accompanying you as Captains in their own Escorts and Science vessels, each with their own bridge crews. It's almost too much to take in. :)

This, this, this
Let them captain the other ships you have which would otherwise spend most of their time gathering dust in your "garage"

[billybob442]

Except that Tier 5 ships are tied to the rank of Admiral, so if you ever want to experience those ships, then yes, you DO have to take the new rank. It's just like gear in WoW, where the game funnels you into doing certain things (raids, pvp) if you want to be at all competitive. Sure, you can choose to be worse than everyone else, but honestly who plays a combat game so they can lose? And Cryptic has specifically said that combat will factor heavily in player progression.

Well that really all comes down to your reason for playing the game. If you're interested in being dominate in the PvP / raid content then you're going to need those ships to do those but if you're more interested in episodic content or exploration then constant raiding has very little value to you and likewise for the ships that are oriented toward this kind of content.

[Giuoco]

Interesting stuff .... still can't figure out if I should min/max or go for balanced build

[rabidchocobo]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Deltab> Can one go from a Tactical ship to a Cruiser and then back while they are leveling form Commander, to Captain, then to Admiral?

<Cryptic_Snix> Absolutely. Your choice of ship to captain is up to you.


So even though you put 80% of your skill points into engineering, you can take a science or tactical ship without penalty or any kind of loss? That completely changes my thoughts on what ships to take at each tier!


<Bizarro_Rekhan> <Kelesh> In Regards to player progression and the Genesis Program. Should players who spend the majority of their time exploring Expect to develop their captain and bridge officers at a significantly slower pace than players who play through the episodic content?

<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.

We can level just as much from exploring strange new worlds as from mission completions? I haven't been this happy in . . . well, a long time! Sad commentary on my life though it may be, these two bits of info are going into my blog as really good things. Good things are happening for Kariv!

[Arokh72]

So even though you put 80% of your skill points into engineering, you can take a science or tactical ship without penalty or any kind of loss? That completely changes my thoughts on what ships to take at each tier!



We can level just as much from exploring strange new worlds as from mission completions? I haven't been this happy in . . . well, a long time! Sad commentary on my life though it may be, these two bits of info are going into my blog as really good things. Good things are happening for Kariv!

I'm with you on this.

[bugs]

can i jump form above and kill someone

[Interdictor]

So even though you put 80% of your skill points into engineering, you can take a science or tactical ship without penalty or any kind of loss? That completely changes my thoughts on what ships to take at each tier!
Yeah - the devs mentioned that before. SO, as in your example, if you take an Engineering Captain and put him in an Escort, you might not have the same "punch" a Tactical-based captain would have in the same ship - but you could bring other bonuses and abilities to the table. Then add in the effect equipment and Bridge Officers have on your ship and the customization level should be impressive.

[Interdictor]

Whoa, whoa... by "fleet" do you mean that player Admirals will be able to manage a group of NPC ships?

Well - it could be doable. After all - we will be able to manage an away team of NPCs (and it would be cool to assign your BOs to ships out of your personal stable).

Of course, actual flesh-and-blood PCs will probably always be better than NPC AI, but it could be a nice option just to shore up Admiral gameplay if you're having a hard time finding a taskforce/team or even filling up raids.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

I really doubt that all of a sudden you won't be able to do all the old stuff you used to do when you unlock Admiral.

[Mozcol]

Here are the questions and answers given for those whom missed the Dev Chat.


<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.



"Equal Measure"...no other MMO can make this boast and this is truly a significant attribute to STO. I have my doubts as to how they can make all areas equal of gain equal, so, I'll have to wait and find out if its really a fact or an excited dev speaking too quickly.

[rabidchocobo]

If it's even *close* to equal, it's a pretty amazing leap forward from every combat-based MMO there is.

And I think they're ALL combat based, excepting Second Life I assume. Has anyone ever heard of a no-combat MMO?

[The_Ogopogo]

I think the progression options they've outlined so far are awesome. Just the simple fact that I can still progress through exploration at a relatively similar pace to PVPing and doing episodic content is awesome. I play late at night and traditionally it's sometimes been hard for me to find groups and such. I suppose with all the international players playing on the same server this wont be much of an issue anyways but I still love the fact that I'll be able to explore and do things on my own and not have to worry about falling behind everyone else.

[kkmccall]

Except that Tier 5 ships are tied to the rank of Admiral, so if you ever want to experience those ships, then yes, you DO have to take the new rank. It's just like gear in WoW, where the game funnels you into doing certain things (raids, pvp) if you want to be at all competitive. Sure, you can choose to be worse than everyone else, but honestly who plays a combat game so they can lose? And Cryptic has specifically said that combat will factor heavily in player progression.

'Competitive', 'worse than everyone else...', 'lose'... you appear to be looking at STO as a pure PvP/Raid Centric game. If you want Admiral Level PvP - fine, it's here. If you want Admiral Level Raids - fine, it's here. If you want Admiral Level Exploration - well, this is where it becomes unclear & this is what this debate is about - we don't know if that is there. Not everyone here is interested in Raid/PvP.

If we look at Guild Wars, it was originally created as a PvP centric game. The PvE was only added simply as a means to level up & gain Skills & Armour. Nothing more. However, it soon became apparent to ArenaNet (Creators of Guild Wars) that the large majority of their players were only there for the PvE. So, they created a whole lot more PvE for these players - expansions were added that were 90% PvE content. Guild Wars is successful because it recognised what their playerbase wanted & added that. No one now can say Guild Wars is a purely PvP game. I believe it was stated at one point that 95% of the Guild Wars players were PvE players & just 5% PvP. This is great because the revenue they make from PvE is how they fund the prizes for their PvP tournaments. Guild Wars is now a PvE centric game with PvP.

Had ArenaNet not taken this step & remained purely PvP with 'some' PvE to level up - do you really believe Guild Wars would still be up & running & still as high on the charts as it is, four & a half years after launch?


...
In all seriousness, can we stop with the player progression Q&A's? Maybe move on to PvP or fleet content?

Zinc has stated that the PvP discussions will be taking place next month. I guess they are still working on this & don't want to give too much away at the moment.

[Rivaris]

good info.

im sad to hear they walked away from that you can max all skills. were now giong to end up again with 3 spec that have been turn inside out and calculated to be the best spec for that proffession.

wich leads to people to be forced specced into those skills or get kicked from groups if they dont by people that dont understand a other spec is good enough but just 2% less effective then the cookie build.

I do hope they mean that you can only max out 80% or something.

[ShadowStalker]

In the Oct 19th Ask Cryptic, we were told that "Inevitably, yes, it will be possible for someone to max out a character, but by then we’ll likely have added more skills." Now are they changing their minds, and saying we can't max out a character?

I'm hoping that we can still max out our characters. And if not, then I hope they stop giving us false promises =/

That would take away the individuality of the players. If every1 can do the same it will take away the whole reason to have 3 diffrent skill tree's.

About the whole Admiral discussion if we will have or wont have solo play at admiral...why do some of you guys always making a fuss out of nothing. You see " a fleet" of ships and instantly you go complaining that there wont be any solo play or that you dont like "a fleet" of ships. Maybe that fleet is just a group of 5 or 10. There are still systems to explore, new races to meet, finding that unique BO that you want etc. So plz stop all the nagging and doom thinking and just wait till more info is released.

im sad to hear they walked away from that you can max all skills. were now giong to end up again with 3 spec that have been turn inside out and calculated to be the best spec for that proffession.

wich leads to people to be forced specced into those skills or get kicked from groups if they dont by people that dont understand a other spec is good enough but just 2% less effective then the cookie build.

Sorry but i've never experienced this myself. Played a priest in WoW from launch till a few months ago. And i've always specced and geared the character in my own way. And i never had any kicks or whatever because my specc is not what they are used to. In the end its about knowing how to play your character and making a good name on the server you play. If you succeed in that im 100% sure you wont be kicked from any group if your specc is abit diffrent. But this are my own experience ofc :)

[mirkrim]

If you want Admiral Level PvP - fine, it's here. If you want Admiral Level Raids - fine, it's here. If you want Admiral Level Exploration - well, this is where it becomes unclear & this is what this debate is about - we don't know if that is there. Not everyone here is interested in Raid/PvP.
That's exactly the issue, isn't it. When I look at the current ship tiers, it seems exactly like epic gear in WoW; all the best gear - or in this case ships - absolutely requires max-level characters. This kind of system exists in MMO's in order to perpetuate raid/pvp gear grinds, so having it in STO gives an indication of the direction Cryptic intends to take players. The only difference is that the bulk of raid/pvp content will be at Admiral rank, after players get the best ships. I don't know whether that changes things, but regardless, I don't understand why they made such an open skill system, only to turn around and make a ship system that funnels you into choices that don't even make sense in the context of the IP.

[Zoberraz]

I very much doubt that, Mirkrim.

If the starter vessels are 50% of the raw power a tier 5 vessel has, than it sounds to me like you could very well have a Miranda go along with a taskforce of other vessels to confront an enemy such a klingon fleet or a Borg invasion.

That restriction you've raised only comes with the mindset of "I'm going to implicate myself in that only once I'm at my very best". That's not the game's fault, but rather that of the player for not daring to implicate himself in such things until he's at his very best.

Not to mention that the formula to strive for something (start small, become big) is something most people enjoy as well. It gives a sense of growth and progression that I really can't condemn.

I'm personally of the mind that we'll see starter vessels swooping into the Neutral Zone much sooner. They'll fight over systems and ressources will be tugged back and forth. If one faction does particularly well, perhaps relative costs for improvements will be diminished - giving the playerbase on one side more ease earning themselves better upgrades, equipment and items. I think that if leaving the PvP zone alone for the other faction to dominate would mean a lack of availability for quality items and 150% cost... people will be more willing to go contribute.

[Loekii]

So even though you put 80% of your skill points into engineering, you can take a science or tactical ship without penalty or any kind of loss? That completely changes my thoughts on what ships to take at each tier!

Well remember, they have said we will have more Boffs than seats, so you could be a Science captain, and have your Science Boffs, but then have a crew for your escort that are Tac Boffs.

[Loekii]

That's exactly the issue, isn't it. When I look at the current ship tiers, it seems exactly like epic gear in WoW; all the best gear - or in this case ships - absolutely requires max-level characters. This kind of system exists in MMO's in order to perpetuate raid/pvp gear grinds, so having it in STO gives an indication of the direction Cryptic intends to take players. The only difference is that the bulk of raid/pvp content will be at Admiral rank, after players get the best ships. I don't know whether that changes things, but regardless, I don't understand why they made such an open skill system, only to turn around and make a ship system that funnels you into choices that don't even make sense in the context of the IP.

I think this is just way you can approach it, but not the 'only way'.

How many times have we seen people post that 'this is the only build that works', and then see other players proving otherwise. Its like the people that insist that you can only pay the 'holy trinity', while other groups demonstrate the effectiveness on Non-Holy trinity groups.

Imo, if you cannot play 'outside the box', then you will go for the Tier 5 ship with the min/max skill setting. Other players that can play outside the box, will take different approaches, and be just as effective -- possibly more because they are fighting people that believe only everything in the box is effective.


I very much doubt that, Mirkrim.

If the starter vessels are 50% of the raw power a tier 5 vessel has, than it sounds to me like you could very well have a Miranda go along with a taskforce of other vessels to confront an enemy such a klingon fleet or a Borg invasion.

One of the earlier AskCryptic blogs mentions that lower tier ships are still 'effective' against higher tier ships -- just not on a 1:1 scale.

So in a fleet battle, that Nebula could very well deal the crippling blow, or critical hit, that allows the other ships to take down the target -- sort of like a pack of dogs taking down a bear. One on one, the bear will kill the dog, but when you get a pack on a single bear, the pack wins, even if a few dogs go down.

[Rivaris]

[QUOTE
Sorry but i've never experienced this myself. Played a priest in WoW from launch till a few months ago. And i've always specced and geared the character in my own way. And i never had any kicks or whatever because my specc is not what they are used to. In the end its about knowing how to play your character and making a good name on the server you play. If you succeed in that im 100% sure you wont be kicked from any group if your specc is abit diffrent. But this are my own experience ofc :)[/QUOTE]

your lucky then i know reports on many servers people were forced to spec something to join a guild or stay in 1.

i had tards on my server that demanded 30khp+ and a sertain spec for heroics.
or dps that needed atleast 5k or get a kick.

so yeah most people wont mind what skills you have but seeing were giong to be on 1 server we will see a lot more of those people that just want a free ticket to items or want to brag about world first that will demand you spec Pure and not a hybrid escort/science for example

[ShadowStalker]

Main problem that triggerd this kind of behavior in wow is because blizzard themselves. Somehow ppl feel ''leet" or think they can be a arse because they got epics. I truly hope those kind of ppl are limited on STO :cool:

[Inspired]

"Equal Measure"...no other MMO can make this boast and this is truly a significant attribute to STO. I have my doubts as to how they can make all areas equal of gain equal, so, I'll have to wait and find out if its really a fact or an excited dev speaking too quickly.

No matter how you look at this, it is a subjective statement and really comes done to a developer putting a point value per unit of episode versus per different unit of exploration. Thus, it will always be in the eye of the beholder whether the gain is equal.

Someone will say two apples equal one orange, another will argue that one orange equals one apple because of course they're the same. They're both entitled to their opinions since both have some validity. And, unfortunately there will also always be some oddball that argues that one apple equals two oranges. :rolleyes: And they also want to throw bananas into the mix. :eek:

[Jeck-Kar.Rathimon]

Question: Where is the trivia supposed to take place? Is it going to take place here on the forums, or on the IRC?

[mirkrim]

I think this is just way you can approach it, but not the 'only way'.

How many times have we seen people post that 'this is the only build that works', and then see other players proving otherwise. Its like the people that insist that you can only pay the 'holy trinity', while other groups demonstrate the effectiveness on Non-Holy trinity groups.

Imo, if you cannot play 'outside the box', then you will go for the Tier 5 ship with the min/max skill setting. Other players that can play outside the box, will take different approaches, and be just as effective -- possibly more because they are fighting people that believe only everything in the box is effective.

I get what you're saying, but the fact stands that a better ship is a better ship. You're comparing a well-built lower-tier ship vs a "standard" box-build higher tier ship, which is apples to oranges. Up against a well-built ship of a higher tier, a lower-tier one will never (or rarely) be as good. You said it yourself:
One of the earlier AskCryptic blogs mentions that lower tier ships are still 'effective' against higher tier ships -- just not on a 1:1 scale.
Given this, who wants to be on the underpowered side of that ratio, if there are no tradeoffs to getting a better ship? I'd still have my same awesome bridge officers, I can still get station mods, AND the ship is free with promotion anyway. This is what I mean by the game funneling players into making certain choices. If I threw a million dollars at someone and said "no strings attached, but you don't have to take it", how many people do you honestly think would choose the option of not taking it?

[Zoberraz]

Question: Where is the trivia supposed to take place? Is it going to take place here on the forums, or on the IRC?

Over the STO IRC channel. You can access it via Coldfront by using the link on the Star trek Online site's frontpage, in the lefthand menu.

[Jeck-Kar.Rathimon]

Over the STO IRC channel. You can access it via Coldfront by using the link on the Star trek Online site's frontpage, in the lefthand menu.

Thanks for answering my question. :)

I will need to get a program to access IRC's. Will any application work or do I need a specific app?

[Susano1786]

Good read- like many I'm anxious to hear more about Admiral gameplay, but I don't see a need to worry (or celebrate) until more concrete information is provided.

[dualcamelkid2]

I find it funny that every transcript I have read, someone always posts it again.

[tewalker11]

I agree with Katarine, I'd like to know more about how these fleet battles are going to operate.

[IT_IS_GREEN]

Nice information.
Made my day to see my question was picked...
(not saying much, I had a boring day)

[chrisdiminie]

Nice information.
Made my day to see my question was picked...
(not saying much, I had a boring day)

Ha ha. Maybe I had a slow day too but I was also happy to get a question answered. I was hoping to get the First Officer question answered but I'm hoping they didn't address it because it's an extra cool surprise for us at release.
Either that or they read the question and said "Oh Crap! First Officer! How did we never think to add that?!! This is a nerd riot waiting to happen!"
Heh heh. Whatever. They'll never balance everything people want but it still looks amazing to me.

On another topic I'm also one of those "refuse to accept Admiral promotion" people. Happy to stick with my Galaxy class. A tried and true diplomacy and exploration vessel. More than tough enough. I'll use the extra points to make my ship, it's equipment, BOs, station mods and my class skills top notch.
If I want to play some backup for Admiral Look How Big My Ship Is, I'm sure my Galaxy will do.

[trollguy]

I like this idea very much. I and some others may be reading into it a bit but, this would be awesome.


<Cryptic_Snix> Exploration, episodic missions, or Neutral Zone warfare are all designed to reward the player in equal measure. We are designing STO to allow players to play the game in whatever fashion they like.

I like this aspect very much. This game is looking better and better. Cryptic is turning this Trek fan from being skeptical about this game into a huge groupie.

This would be a departure from their past creations in regards to the risk/reward ratio they espouse. For example, if the rewards for exploration-only is the same as higher risk missions, then with just a little effort and almost no risk you can reach admiral.

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if that feature remained unchanged past open beta. It would contradict their past behavior\efforts.

[trollguy]

If Cryptic backpedals on this and makes a whole bunch of solo content for Admirals, then we'll be right back at square one where there is essentially no difference in gameplay between Admirals and Lieutenants, except that Admirals do more damage.

Welll, SpaceTrolls love the idea of more DAMAGE. Thats quite fine with us. :D

[Zepath]

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see solo content (especially in the exploration side) down the road, after launch.

These decisions they are making are "launch" decisions ... they are not written in stone, and have nothing to do with content releases in the future.

[Flatfingers]

This would be a departure from their past creations in regards to the risk/reward ratio they espouse. For example, if the rewards for exploration-only is the same as higher risk missions, then with just a little effort and almost no risk you can reach admiral.

I understand exactly what you mean, trollguy. Even though I would have preferred that the core design of a MMORPG based on Star Trek had been more about non-combat gameplay, it's not fair to the gamers who are risking more damage to their characters and possessions to gain rewards of the same value as characters who aren't taking the same risks.

However, who ever said that exploration isn't risky?

The dangers inherent in going "where no man has gone before" aren't just a matter of getting shot at by hostiles. Here are some of the risks explorers may take that someone in a straight-up firefight will not have to worry about:

banging into an energy barrier that turns bridge officers into evil gods
contraction of a virulent strain of plague left behind from biological warfare
contraction of an illness that removes inhibitions because some idiot touched something
genetic rearrangement causing all characters to mutate into animals
technological accident that shatters local space-time into fragments
temporal anomalies that cause your ship to be stuck in a loop of time
temporal anomalies that cause your ship to be stuck in a loop of time
temporal anomalies that -- hey, haven't we seen this one before?
transporter malfunctions that split one character into two
transporter malfunctions that turn two characters into one
possession by alien spirits whose minds live in big glass spheres
possession by an alien computer that wants everyone to be happy
capture of one's ship by long-lost genetic supermen
capture of one's ship by androids who worship -- of all people -- Harry Mudd
capture of one's ship by space hippies
capture of one's ship by aliens who harvest body parts
capture of one's ship by aliens who make everyone fight each other
capture of one's ship by holograms who manage to escape the holodeck -- again
imprisonment of a shipmate who unknowingly breaks a law on a "death sentence" planet
being blown up by stepping on what looks like a rock but is actually an explosive
having one's brain surgically removed by aliens who want to use it as a planetary controllerNeed I go on? ;)

Seriously, if there's anything to the "exploration" we've been promised in this game, there will be plenty of opportunities for those who explore to risk their prestige, their ship, their characters, their gear, their faction's standing with alien civilizations, and who knows what else.

If I may quote an expert on the subject of exploration: "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

--Flatfingers

[trollguy]

Given this, who wants to be on the underpowered side of that ratio, if there are no tradeoffs to getting a better ship? I'd still have my same awesome bridge officers, I can still get station mods, AND the ship is free with promotion anyway. This is what I mean by the game funneling players into making certain choices. If I threw a million dollars at someone and said "no strings attached, but you don't have to take it", how many people do you honestly think would choose the option of not taking it?

Combat is a complex, multifaceted equation whose nature cannot be accurately boiled down into a simplified statement.

Skill is a "Factor", Gear is a Factor, "Battle conditions" are a factor, "Enemy numbers" are a factor, "Tactics" are a factor, and the ever present "Luck" is a factor. Plus a few more ...

Examples of the David-vs-Goliath scenario are numerous just in ST. Picard and the Borg; Kirk and the Doomsday weapon, etc

You must use caution and tactics when fighting a stronger opponent, and not run in solo head on, unless its a kamikaze run. The challenge of defeating them is enough for some to accept it and others to avoid it all together. Besides, there is ALWAYS going to be someone bigger and stronger out there that youre going to bump into. You either hope theyre freindly and if not, you hope youve got some tricks up your sleeve to survive the encounter.

Sometimes, the best choice is not the BIGGEST gun, but an assortment of devices; Several specialized ships working together can be far stronger than a much larger ship. Lets wait and see whats what with this after Open beta is over and the game is live....actually lets make that 6 months after the game is live so we can see what is going on after the dust from the nerf torpedos dissapates:rolleyes:

[trollguy]

However, who ever said that exploration isn't risky?


capture of one's ship by space hippies
--Flatfingers

Heh thanks for a list of probables. Feels the same when I go out to the grocery store. And I did say *almost no risk*.

Dam space hippies......Can we get them to turn on the borg, please?

"Resistance is, like, groovy man, but like so futile. But hey man, like do your own thing ya know?":p

[Flatfingers]

Dam space hippies......Can we get them to turn on the borg, please?

I almost put them on their own line -- nothing about capturing anything, just "space hippies."

I mean... that's bad enough, right?

:D

--Flatfingers

[Dr._Sskarno]

This is great stuff. While people's expectations have to be scaled back to more realistic levels, I think this will definitely be a game you could play from Day One all the way till when they shut down the servers for good.

[Gerrard]

Between this one chat and the one before it, my excitement level has tripled in the last week. RELEASE THIS ALREADY!!!!

*grin*


G

[mirkrim]

Lets wait and see whats what with this after Open beta is over and the game is live....actually lets make that 6 months after the game is live so we can see what is going on after the dust from the nerf torpedos dissapates:rolleyes:
By then it'll be far too late, because Cryptic will have finalized a system that funnels players toward a single max-level path in exactly the same way as World of Warcraft. THAT is my point. By making ships FREE with promotion, tying the best ships to the highest rank (Admiral), and having no incentives for players to choose NOT to become Admiral and stay at Captain, it creates a situation where most players WILL choose the bigger gun simply because there's no reason not to.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

By then it'll be far too late, because Cryptic will have finalized a system that funnels players toward a single max-level path in exactly the same way as World of Warcraft.
1) Not in exactly the same way as World of Warcraft, but in exactly the same way as every single MMO out there except Eve Online.

I wish people would quit saying WoW every time they mean "an MMO." World of Warcraft was not the first MMO ever, and it will not be the last.

Oh and:

2) Cryptic has already finalized their system. Closed Beta Testing, which is "just around the corner" (a quote from Zinc) is going to be finding bugs. It is not going to be for telling Cryptic how to completely recode their game.

Is it possible they will change little things, like renaming rank 5 to Commodore or Fleet Captain? Sure. Is it possible they're going to completely rewrite the code as it pertains to character advancement? Highly unlikely.

[Huutini]

I wish people would quit saying WoW every time they mean "an MMO." World of Warcraft was not the first MMO ever, and it will not be the last.

No, but it is the best known and most spread MMO, which it will probably stay for a long, long time. Which is why it's a good example for comparisons that many people understand.

It's like cars - everybody knows cars. That's why they're such a popular example for internet-comparisons. :D

[Atarimark]

Well, I don't 'Raid', I don't PvP. Neither holds any interest to me whatsoever.

If I can still 'Explore' without having to get a 'Group', then that's fine. :cool:

As long as exploring holds benefits then its all good either way... :D

[Zepath]

Well, I don't 'Raid', I don't PvP. Neither holds any interest to me whatsoever.

Come play the game with me for a while lady ... I'll show you the path to the dark side, and just how fun it can be.

[colinquigley]

Thanks Guy's - great info!!:)

[billybob442]

I almost put them on their own line -- nothing about capturing anything, just "space hippies."

I mean... that's bad enough, right?

:D

--Flatfingers

HERBERT ... :D

[chickie_0]

This one was very interesting, as I care more about exploring than fighting (I do enjoy both). I'm glad that exploring has good rewards. ( I'm still trying to understand if we can create new species for out crew members too, or if we can just rename and train the abilities of the ones we find.)

[Zomeguy]

This one was very interesting, as I care more about exploring than fighting (I do enjoy both). I'm glad that exploring has good rewards. ( I'm still trying to understand if we can create new species for out crew members too, or if we can just rename and train the abilities of the ones we find.)

Well in one dev chat/interview it was said you can make your own bridge crew and for new bridge officers if they have a special ability you can take that and apply it to one of your current BO. Not sure if it is still that way or not.

[Flatfingers]

HERBERT ... :D

I am not Herbert.

:D

(But I think we've just found another emote that needs to be in this game: /herbert)

--Flatfingers

[rabidchocobo]

This one was very interesting, as I care more about exploring than fighting (I do enjoy both). I'm glad that exploring has good rewards. ( I'm still trying to understand if we can create new species for out crew members too, or if we can just rename and train the abilities of the ones we find.)

One of the Ask Cryptic files did cover that.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=22403

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <G. Cockburn> Does customisation for our bridge crew extend beyond facial features and species, for example, can we alter their uniforms? Can we decide what rank they hold? Can we dictate what position within the crew they hold? For example, could I create; Commander "X", First Officer and Chief Tactical Officer, a hologram with the appearance of the EMH MK1, and have him in a standard Command Red uniform? Could I also create; Master Chief Petty
14:58 <Bizarro_Rekhan> Officer "Y", Security Chief, human female, wearing an all-black version of the standard uniform with militaristic embellishments?

<CrypticZinc> Yes. You'll have control over the appearance, species and uniform for each officer.

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <tenorman2222> will you be able to "respec" your BO

<CrypticZinc> Current "respec" for BOfficers is having another potential Bridge Officer "train them up" with a new skill.

[jeroen84]

I'd like to say thanks to the dev team for having this chat with us!

[Tamorand]

<Bizarro_Rekhan> <IT_IS_GREEN> Will our NPCs always be with us? I mean, will we ever have some sort of thing where our "Riker" leaves to become Captain and we break in a new guy?

<Cryptic_Snix> Advancing your bridge officers to Captain has interesting game play options that we are exploring.!

I see sending a SubSpace Distress Signal - and your BOF-Upgraded Captain shows up to help you fight the [insert bad guy here]

[kaisersouser]

fine stuff thx guys :)

[onlyfeel]

good ! i want join

[Chindogu]

Does this mean, once you gain Admiral that solo play is no longer viable?:confused:

It probably means the episodic content becomes fleet actions. you can still probably pick up the random Genesis created quests through solo exploration