Why fleet owned stations should be in the first expansion

[Replica]

There seems to be some interest in fleet owned stations that you could walk around (and perhaps shop) with your Captain. If they could only be placed in Genesis generated systems, then there would be no over crowding like in SWG's Tattoine suburbs.

Some possible ideas for Fleet Stations:

1) They could after a time open up a fleet storyline episode. I thought of one were a large number of fleet ships would have a raid style episode to rescue an entire civiliazation from a nova, and relocate them to one of the planets in the same genesis system as their Fleet Station. ( here after I will call that the Fleet System)

2) Where possible, fleet member's storyline missions would be relocated to the Fleet System.

3) Fleets could set up "shops" in large stations that could sell to both fleet members and non-fleet members. Conceivably a Fleet Station could become almost as much of a hub as DS9 if enough of the STO community decided to visit there regularly.

4) There would be an option of a small station that offered no bonuses, repairs or shop space, but could be built by a 5 player fleet with about a month of effort. It would have minimal maintenance requirements and basically just be a space for fleet members to walk around and talk to each other.

So what do you all think?

[Replica]

I necroed and re edited this thread, because I came across a line of Fleet station discussion going on in the Fleet Tools thread, and thought it might be good to have a place to focus Fleet Station ideas. Even though we know they will not be in a launch, they might have strong potential for an early expansion. So put your ideas or worries about Fleet Stations here.

[Blackleg]

great ideas...
this would also rgant an independent possibilty for ressource management, without the need for ressource timer etc. based on game mechanics.

The possibilty of an independent economic system would be a great idea *thumbs up* :cool:

[Elfender]

While i wan't to see this mechanic ASAP, i would also like it to be a fully developed tool, well thought out and delivered.

I love the idea of a fleet station being a center for comerce for non fleet members, but what happens when there are like 300, 3,00, 30,000 of these (though putting an AH/Bank type mechanic there would serve about the same purpose)...still i think it should be vistable by non-member fleets. As for a fleet home system, i love that idea too...especially implemented by a fleet raid.

I would also like to see a rescource gathering tool that sends the rescources straight to the guild from this mechanic, maybe a purchasable/buildable mining colony within the system. These rescources would only be allowed to be used by the fleet leadership to build ships (and would probably have to be limited supply per month/week or somthing to prevent destroying the market...

A social hub for fleet members is more of what im looking for, ideally the starbase would serve as a primary HUB for my fleet to pass through, train new members, conduct ceremonies, promotions, trials.

Should ideally come with or be able to upgrade with:
Shipyard
Mining Colony/Base
Bar
ceremonial room(s) of some sort
Holodeck/dueling area for training and contests.

[Sjampoo]

It sounds like a lot of fun saving up for that extra docking ramp with the entire guild, or a replacement tactical array in the case the borg return.. but I think something as big as this should be carefully integrated in the Star Trek universe.

If you'd claim an empty bit of space for a space station, the neighbors would immediately start to complain (or start abducting your redshirts for 'probing'). Any desirable bit of 'real-estate' (e.g.: along trade routes) should come with it's own share of problems AND storyline. Diplomatic relations with neighbouring systems and some such.

And I think Fleet stations should be fully destructable. Maintenance of the station should include protecting it. It would be awesome if the Fleet leaders got a message from High Command that long range sensors have picked up an Orion raiding party en route to the station: ETA 3 days, good luck.

The Fleet could then, for instance, intercept the Orions before they arrive or upgrade the tactical systems and pay as many players as possible to defend the station and protect it. The enemy raiders could be instanced to make all this possible (with a 'Warp to...' button in the quest log).

Edit: add "I think" to the last alinea..

[Replica]

...
I love the idea of a fleet station being a center for comerce for non fleet members, but what happens when there are like 300, 3,00, 30,000 of these....

...

A social hub for fleet members is more of what im looking for, ideally the starbase would serve as a primary HUB for my fleet to pass through, train new members, conduct ceremonies, promotions, trials.

Should ideally come with or be able to upgrade with:
Shipyard
Mining Colony/Base
Bar
ceremonial room(s) of some sort
Holodeck/dueling area for training and contests.

If there got to be hundreds of Fleet Stations that could buy or sell resources and goods, then suddenly STO would be able to develop Traders. Players that just build resources by buying in one place and selling in another and keeping the profit. We would have Ferengi.


As for Fleet Station upgrades, I agree that it would be a great, fun option for fleets. I think the most deluxe, fully optioned Stations should only be attainable by large fleets because of the resources needed to build and maintain them. Station building and maintenance could almost become part of the endgame for some people.

[Zepath]

Unless I missed something ... we haven't been told that Fleet Starbases are out yet. Have we?

I know they haven't talked about them, but they haven't said that they aren't in the game either?

If you have a link that says different, please share.

[LordDave]

I think the big issue, more so then anything else, is where to put them. Can't exactly have 1,000 space stations orbiting Earth now can we?

And with such a large universe, where would we put that that wouldn't unbalance the game? I mean, if you put your station next to a system that has a difficult quest, suddenly you could fly your ship in, barely make it out alive, get repaired in seconds, then fly back in.

OR even close to the Neutral Zone. Fly in, get beaten up, fly out, repair really quick, then fly back in faster then anyone else.
Again, balance. It's much more of a nightmare to figure out then it is to leave it out.

Though I would like it... eventually.

[Elfender]

I woul agree 100% that fleet stations be attackable, but there is the problem of when no one is on...i've been in guilds that are somewhat localized, as such have similar play hours and can go for hours w/o someone on at certain times.

As for free traders, i know i'll open a flame war with this, but i have been, and always will be against a playable neutral faction of traders. this is a FvF game, as such i believe there is no reason, and actually many reasons against a playable neutral faction.

Fleet maintanance is a really good idea, but should not be too tediouse, a sort of tithing system combined with a fleet rescource gathering/managementt system should take care of it...possibly integrate it with the genesis system so that new races give you tech that can be used on your fleet starbase/system.

[Elfender]

I think the big issue, more so then anything else, is where to put them. Can't exactly have 1,000 space stations orbiting Earth now can we?

And with such a large universe, where would we put that that wouldn't unbalance the game? I mean, if you put your station next to a system that has a difficult quest, suddenly you could fly your ship in, barely make it out alive, get repaired in seconds, then fly back in.

OR even close to the Neutral Zone. Fly in, get beaten up, fly out, repair really quick, then fly back in faster then anyone else.
Again, balance. It's much more of a nightmare to figure out then it is to leave it out.

Though I would like it... eventually.

the way i currently read the Traveling mechanics, nothings stopping you from doing this anyway, as for where...a genesis system, or a specificly designed system for it...it will probably be instanced like COX supergroup bases.

[Replica]

Unless I missed something ... we haven't been told that Fleet Starbases are out yet. Have we?

I know they haven't talked about them, but they haven't said that they aren't in the game either?

If you have a link that says different, please share.
No, no,no. Fleet Stations are not in at launch. But they have a great deal of in game potential, I'm hoping that a thread exploring that potential might help Fleet Stations to be an expansion priority.

There is so much text on this thread about games decisions that have already been made, I thought that perhaps it would be better to focus on an aspect of the game that seems likely in the future but is still malleable enough to actually be effected by Forum input.

I think the big issue, more so then anything else, is where to put them. Can't exactly have 1,000 space stations orbiting Earth now can we?



To me it makes the most sense to put each one in a solar system that is generated by the Genesis engine and discovered by the Fleet members. The only way you would find it is if you were told the system coordinates and you flew there. The Genesis engine allows for hundreds of thousands of procedurally generated solar systems and planets, so they don't even need to be instanced.

[Zepath]

Q: What can you tell us about guild mechanics such as building star bases and so forth, you know like relationship structure of command and things like that?

A: Our Fleets are our guilds, we're playing around right now with some of the more static aspects. I mean, again, imagine that they will have basically any of the guild mechanics that you are used to in terms of having a centralized repository for items and currency, having ranks, having uniforms, having all sorts of things that you can imagine on the role playing side as well. We're figuring out right now what we want to do in terms of hard shared resources, but that is something that we are kind of iterating on and making sure it kind of fits our schedule, so anything like shared star bases or mining platforms or anything like that. Those are things that we are still playing around with right now, and don't have any real details for you, sorry.

[SOURCE]
(http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249)
That's my link ... what do you have that changes that?

I realize "playing around with" doesn't equate to "in the game", but it makes it clear they are part of their design, and he doesn't say "that will have to be post launch" ... and he's pretty quick to pull that trigger.

[mrwalsh]

I think the big issue, more so then anything else, is where to put them. Can't exactly have 1,000 space stations orbiting Earth now can we?

And with such a large universe, where would we put that that wouldn't unbalance the game? I mean, if you put your station next to a system that has a difficult quest, suddenly you could fly your ship in, barely make it out alive, get repaired in seconds, then fly back in.

OR even close to the Neutral Zone. Fly in, get beaten up, fly out, repair really quick, then fly back in faster then anyone else.
Again, balance. It's much more of a nightmare to figure out then it is to leave it out.

Though I would like it... eventually.

OP said placed inside a Genesis generated system, I took that to mean that the base would exist in an instance specifically designed for a fleet base, but the coordinates could be shared like the other explored generated instances so other people can gain access (and if it became popular, the coordinates would be passed around the community). I think that would be kinda cool. Just as long as the shops didn't generate revenue for the fleet that hosted it; the last thing we need are people camping the big public areas spamming adverts for their fleet base.

So: Yes to place of residence and factors of convenience, no to trade benefits. Easiest way would probably be just to restrict it to Fleet access though. You could still have your NPC merchants, but they'd be there for your convenience.

Then make it so Fleet vs Fleet would be an instance of an instance; with proper challenge and reply, no random fleet raids. heh For even more fun, make it so anyone can spectate like in GW.

[Jaxston]

Q: What can you tell us about guild mechanics such as building star bases and so forth, you know like relationship structure of command and things like that?

A: Our Fleets are our guilds, we're playing around right now with some of the more static aspects. I mean, again, imagine that they will have basically any of the guild mechanics that you are used to in terms of having a centralized repository for items and currency, having ranks, having uniforms, having all sorts of things that you can imagine on the role playing side as well. We're figuring out right now what we want to do in terms of hard shared resources, but that is something that we are kind of iterating on and making sure it kind of fits our schedule, so anything like shared star bases or mining platforms or anything like that. Those are things that we are still playing around with right now, and don't have any real details for you, sorry.

[SOURCE]
(http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=249)
That's my link ... what do you have that changes that?

I realize "playing around with" doesn't equate to "in the game", but it makes it clear they are part of their design, and he doesn't say "that will have to be post launch" ... and he's pretty quick to pull that trigger.

I like your link Z.....Cryptic must realize that these types of structures add a time sink for an entire guild. Why is that good you ask? It's good because it fosters communty and adds perceived depth in game...like someone in this thread already said....the entire guild could save resources. Those resources can than be used to build structures ships etc....it's very exciting.

:)

[discopunk1118]

excellent idea....as much as i would like to see the stations in the open-world I realise this has a very slim chance of occuring and that instanced stations are probably the best way to go. Maybe you could run into a generic station that you pull up to in space and once there you can type in a docking password for the station you would like to visit.....;)

[Tain01]

I love this idea. As someone else said, it would spark diplomatic intrigue between fleets, commerce, the works. One thing I wanted to mention that I did not see mentioned is the difficulty in making this sort of thing possible. It should take plenty of time to establish, and be just as difficult to destroy. This would prevent or at least reasonably delay crowding with stations, and would force people to think carefully about where they would place them.

[Jaxston]

I love this idea. As someone else said, it would spark diplomatic intrigue between fleets, commerce, the works. One thing I wanted to mention that I did not see mentioned is the difficulty in making this sort of thing possible. It should take plenty of time to establish, and be just as difficult to destroy. This would prevent or at least reasonably delay crowding with stations, and would force people to think carefully about where they would place them.

Agreed.......:)

[indigowhale345]

While I like the idea, I've played Anarchy Online. And this sounds a lot like the player cities there (hopefully without the stupid finite limit they had). That's not a bad thing, mind you. They had the shops and let you do alien raids, and offered some buffs for the upkeep fees, but they were also terrible eyesores and ghost towns.

These places as social areas just don't work. They are too spread out, too remote, and too much of a hassle to get to for them to be used by anyone other than your fleet on a regular basis.

Yes people will come to buy your cheap tacos if they must, but that was also serious trek in AO. I often got tells from people asking me to deliver them stuff from my shop, which I always ignored since I was busy doing something else. I imagine setting them out in remote areas of unexplored space in STO will have the same effect.

There is also the question of, if you use a genesis system to hold a fleet station, what about people who wanted to explore that system and instead stumble upon a now static place owned by a fleet? How many of those places will exist in years with mostly defunct fleets?


Still I like the idea, I'm glad Cryptic is doing something towards it. Its a fun idea to set up a space station somewhere in a cool environment, maybe orbiting a pretty M class planet, or deep in a dangerous stormy nebula.

[briank741]

I think the big issue, more so then anything else, is where to put them. Can't exactly have 1,000 space stations orbiting Earth now can we?

And with such a large universe, where would we put that that wouldn't unbalance the game? I mean, if you put your station next to a system that has a difficult quest, suddenly you could fly your ship in, barely make it out alive, get repaired in seconds, then fly back in.

OR even close to the Neutral Zone. Fly in, get beaten up, fly out, repair really quick, then fly back in faster then anyone else.
Again, balance. It's much more of a nightmare to figure out then it is to leave it out.

Though I would like it... eventually.

I would thing that if it is like the COH games where there is one entrance to many bases would apply here.

They would proably make one floating base that allowed for different entrances to your particular fleets base instnace.

[mrwalsh]

While I like the idea, I've played Anarchy Online. And this sounds a lot like the player cities there (hopefully without the stupid finite limit they had). That's not a bad thing, mind you. They had the shops and let you do alien raids, and offered some buffs for the upkeep fees, but they were also terrible eyesores and ghost towns.

These places as social areas just don't work. They are too spread out, too remote, and too much of a hassle to get to for them to be used by anyone other than your fleet on a regular basis.

Yes people will come to buy your cheap tacos if they must, but that was also serious trek in AO. I often got tells from people asking me to deliver them stuff from my shop, which I always ignored since I was busy doing something else. I imagine setting them out in remote areas of unexplored space in STO will have the same effect.

There is also the question of, if you use a genesis system to hold a fleet station, what about people who wanted to explore that system and instead stumble upon a now static place owned by a fleet? How many of those places will exist in years with mostly defunct fleets?


Still I like the idea, I'm glad Cryptic is doing something towards it. Its a fun idea to set up a space station somewhere in a cool environment, maybe orbiting a pretty M class planet, or deep in a dangerous stormy nebula.

AO was actually what turned me off the idea of non-instanced guild areas (and every game I've played that had them only reinforced it). 9 times out of 10 they end up as ghost towns, and they're always way out in the middle of nowhere. Just a giant added empty space to the game environment that serves no purpose other than to host features that are abandoned within a year (and the supposed creation of a deeper, larger game world that both attracts and severely disappoints players like myself). They mostly bother me 'cause they shoot at me while I'm wondering around in the nothing, and I end up doing a corpse run to the middle of nowhere I should have ever been... it's like a double whammy.

At least with instances, they fade into non-existence.

[Replica]

excellent idea....as much as i would like to see the stations in the open-world I realise this has a very slim chance of occuring and that instanced stations are probably the best way to go. Maybe you could run into a generic station that you pull up to in space and once there you can type in a docking password for the station you would like to visit.....;)


One of the things I think is most innovative about STO is the Genesis engine to procedurally generate content. It's how they let players explore, it's not quite the same a instancing, anyone with the coordinates could show up, but it's not likely that an uninvited player would stumble across your Fleet System.

There has been some mention of the destructibility of Fleet Stations. Unless Cryptic decided to allow the option of placing your Fleet Base in the Neutral Zone, I don't see how combat would ever be a factor. I would think Fleet Station (if Cryptic decides to make them a part of STO) would never be subject to combat.

But along the lines of Fleet Stations and combat, it would be an interesting option for Fleet leaders to be able to "schedule" a PvE attack on their Fleet Station as a group event.

[Replica]

There is also the question of, if you use a genesis system to hold a fleet station, what about people who wanted to explore that system and instead stumble upon a now static place owned by a fleet? How many of those places will exist in years with mostly defunct fleets?



My understanding of the Genesis system is that it would allow for the generation of thousands of unique solar systems. I think when you go out exploring, a brand new system will be generated on the fly, so the possibility of someone finding it on an exploration mission should be nil, but it wouldn't be the same as an instanced dungeon like the CoH team bases, because the Fleet System would still have a unique location in space.

[Elfender]

But along the lines of Fleet Stations and combat, it would be an interesting option for Fleet leaders to be able to "schedule" a PvE attack on their Fleet Station as a group event.

That would be an excelllent idea....under the right circumstances...

[indigowhale345]

My understanding of the Genesis system is that it would allow for the generation of thousands of unique solar systems. I think when you go out exploring, a brand new system will be generated on the fly, so the possibility of someone finding it on an exploration mission should be nil, but it wouldn't be the same as an instanced dungeon like the CoH team bases, because the Fleet System would still have a unique location in space.

Yes its supposed to generate on the fly, however, my point was, if you were to plant a fleet space station, say in the Omicron Beta system, and a fleet taco refinery and a fleet market in that star system, that system has to stay there, static as a necessity. Otherwise how would non-fleet people get to the market or use it as a social hub?

If they wanted to explore the Omicron Beta system and get a generated system, would they see the fleet station in the Epsilon Gamma system when the owning fleet actually put it it in the Omicron Beta system? Or would the fleet see a different system every time they go there?

That is why I would assume they would find the fleet housing in the Omicron Beta system, kept globally static because it has fleet assets, but that would make it no longer exploration content, because you can't regenerate it continuously when people have their stuff there and want other people to be able to come there.

Now if all the fleet houses were only accessible by the fleet, that wouldn't be a problem. The fleet would always see the same Omicron Beta system while everyone else sees whatever Genesis gives them. However that seems to preclude the ability for other people to randomly visit your fleet stuff or buy from a market there.

[sandman105]

With the Genesis system, a fleet leader could discover a system they like, save the location and set up shop there. The fleet leader could then send out the location to all fleet members and meet to begin construction of their base. Being able to save quordinates ensures that system will always be there, and hence only accesable to people with the location saved.

Im not sure how one could attack such a base though, because they would also have to have the location of the base saved, and who would give out the location of their base to others and invite attack? A system could be worked out though to allow such combat encounters. Maybe a fleet could designate another fleet to be their rival, and the rival would know the location of the other base, but not the strength of their fleet.

Just my idea on this subject, in any case, i support the idea of having player made stations. :cool:

[mrwalsh]

Yes its supposed to generate on the fly, however, my point was, if you were to plant a fleet space station, say in the Omicron Beta system, and a fleet taco refinery and a fleet market in that star system, that system has to stay there, static as a necessity. Otherwise how would non-fleet people get to the market or use it as a social hub?

If they wanted to explore the Omicron Beta system and get a generated system, would they see the fleet station in the Epsilon Gamma system when the owning fleet actually put it it in the Omicron Beta system? Or would the fleet see a different system every time they go there?

That is why I would assume they would find the fleet housing in the Omicron Beta system, kept globally static because it has fleet assets, but that would make it no longer exploration content, because you can't regenerate it continuously when people have their stuff there and want other people to be able to come there.

Now if all the fleet houses were only accessible by the fleet, that wouldn't be a problem. The fleet would always see the same Omicron Beta system while everyone else sees whatever Genesis gives them. However that seems to preclude the ability for other people to randomly visit your fleet stuff or buy from a market there.

They said you can save and share coordinates to access someone else's unique explored instance (and allow other people to access yours). The Fleet starbase would be a permanent instance with set coordinates, and anybody the fleet members come across would be able to receive coordinates from said members.

They haven't said if you have to share them directly in game (i.e. ship to ship data transfer) or if you could just put a particular string online and anyone who saw could access it (like the skill templates in GW)... but either way it could be spread. If you could just post the info online (like say on your fleet website), then people could just randomly go there. Since every instance prolly leaves a set ID string in the database (allowing you to access the content at will), I think the string sharing would make the most sense. That may be speculating too far on my part though.

[Replica]

Yes its supposed to generate on the fly, however, my point was, if you were to plant a fleet space station, say in the Omicron Beta system, and a fleet taco refinery and a fleet market in that star system, that system has to stay there, static as a necessity. Otherwise how would non-fleet people get to the market or use it as a social hub?

If they wanted to explore the Omicron Beta system and get a generated system, would they see the fleet station in the Epsilon Gamma system when the owning fleet actually put it it in the Omicron Beta system? Or would the fleet see a different system every time they go there?

.


I think that the Genesis systems might be named a bit more like "System:137822465B" where you would not be likely to just explore there on a whim. But you are right in that the Fleet Station would need to be a static part of the game world and would be discoverable if someone chose to explore that system. But at the same time, given the sheer volume of solar systems that could be generated it would be an unlikely accident. Like someone guessing the number to a combination lock.

I remember in SWG how there were miles of abandoned housing on Tatooine, I honestly don't think that this would be a problem with Genesis. If each generated system has let's say ten variables (that seems reasonable to me) and each of those variables has ten potential options (still reasonable and it makes for easy math) then Genesis could generate 1,000,000,000 unique systems. If a thousand fleets each built a station, there would still only be a 0.0001% chance of stumbling upon an occupied system while exploring. I would think it would be exciting rather then annoying.

[JacobFlowers]

stuff

While I like your ideas... it isn't going to happen. The studio is under pressure to release before the end of Q1 2010. If it's not already in the game, they're not going to develop it in time for launch.

We have to just accept this.

[Replica]

While I like your ideas... it isn't going to happen. The studio is under pressure to release before the end of Q1 2010. If it's not already in the game, they're not going to develop it in time for launch.

We have to just accept this.

Oh, I'm not asking for this at Launch. But I think it would a good idea for the community to express ideas before Cryptic starts work on the first expansion, rather then just complain when an expansion comes and it doesn't have things we want. I would guess that Fleet Stations might be second only to Romulans in priority of what people would want to see in the first big expansion for STO.

[Replica]

I just had a new Idea for Fleet Owned Stations: Battle simulator Holodecks. I'm sure I'm not the first to think that there should be some kind of dueling/skirmish system, for Fleets to practice PvP. If we could have that as a holodeck simulation on Fleet Stations then there would be no problems with dueling in public places, creating noise and annoyance for everyone else. There could even be an invincible observer shuttle that could watch the simulation battles so fleet leaders could really work on fleet tactics.

Yes I realize this would limit dueling/skirmishes to big fleets and their friends, but individuals don't really need to refine a group "playbook" of tactics, they can just go practice in the NZ. We don't want the Klingons to get bored.:D

[Tamgros]

Man, there are so many reasons ranging from good RP, to great defensive battles over something you/your fleet has ownership of.

If you feel like you own part of the game, you are much more likely to keep playing.

Anyway, this is one issue I don't think is talked about enough relative to it's importance, thanks for making this thread :)

[dru_mcd]

Man, there are so many reasons ranging from good RP, to great defensive battles over something you/your fleet has ownership of.

If you feel like you own part of the game, you are much more likely to keep playing.

Anyway, this is one issue I don't think is talked about enough relative to it's importance, thanks for making this thread :)

Bump and QFT

[LordDave]

I just had a new Idea for Fleet Owned Stations: Battle simulator Holodecks. I'm sure I'm not the first to think that there should be some kind of dueling/skirmish system, for Fleets to practice PvP. If we could have that as a holodeck simulation on Fleet Stations then there would be no problems with dueling in public places, creating noise and annoyance for everyone else. There could even be an invincible observer shuttle that could watch the simulation battles so fleet leaders could really work on fleet tactics.

Yes I realize this would limit dueling/skirmishes to big fleets and their friends, but individuals don't really need to refine a group "playbook" of tactics, they can just go practice in the NZ. We don't want the Klingons to get bored.:D

I wrote several posts on something similar, only for Player Crews instead of large fleets.