Our first ships. [Archive] - Star Trek Online Forums

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 11:40 AM

Forgotten-Nemesis

10-09-2009, 11:43 AM

The Miranda just keeps coming back. It's a cheap throwaway yet tried and tested design that Starfleet shipyards can probably pump out in a week.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:08 PM

I dont think the Miranda Centaur and Soyuz are good first ships to have. The simple fact being that I know the Miranda class was being retired at the time of the Dominion war and now its over 30 years later. I would personally like to have ships commisioned around 2360-70 as our first ships. Why not ships like the Steamrunner class or Saber class as first tier ships instead.

Im sure this has been discussed before so if you could either ignore it or direct me to the thread. Thx :D

Edit: Keep the Miranda since I think alot of people like the ship and its one of the iconic ships that should be in the game, but maybe replace the Soyuz with the Steamrunner.

Who says that they didn't upgrade the Miranda class? Think about it, how often do you replace parts in your computer while keeping the case? It may LOOK the same but the internals could be massivly more powerful than what you had already. The Miranda profile may just be just easy to construct/repair/upgrade you got to remember that Star Fleet wouldn't give a new commander a nice new shiny ship fresh off the press when more experienced commanders are due replacements to their old star ships.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 12:13 PM

Who says that they didn't upgrade the Miranda class? Think about it, how often do you replace parts in your computer while keeping the case? It may LOOK the same but the internals could be massivly more powerful than what you had already. The Miranda profile may just be just easy to construct/repair/upgrade you got to remember that Star Fleet wouldn't give a new commander a nice new shiny ship fresh off the press when more experienced commanders are due replacements to their old star ships.

The Steamrunner class will be 40+ years old by 2409, hardly a brand new ship. All I would like is an option for something a little newer than the ones listed. Probably too late anyway :(

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:18 PM

The Steamrunner class will be 40+ years old by 2409, hardly a brand new ship. All I would like is an option for something a little newer than the ones listed. Probably too late anyway :(

Yes but again who says they didn't upgrade the Steamrunner? You have to think sensors, warp cores, shields would have all been upgraded in 40 years. Who's to say that the 2409 Miranda class isn't 10 times more powerful than it was at Wolf 359 ir not more?

I can understand what you are saying it "Looks" old yes but its all about the performance, like it has been said. Perhaps it is an easy to throw together ship to bulk up the Federation fleet count so the larger and more powerful ships are free to do more important/risky tasks.

gair22

10-09-2009, 12:22 PM

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 12:25 PM

I am just talking about the cosmetic apperance, they would've had to upgrade them. Im not saying the ships will be useless because they are an old design, just that I dont prefer them because of it. I would be ok with keeping the Miranda and Centaur but replace the miranda looking Soyuz ( it does look like a miranda right?) with a reletively newer design like the Steamrunner.

gair22

10-09-2009, 12:27 PM

I don't think it will be as big of an issue as you think. I'm pretty sure its more of a second tutorial stage before you are able to gain a rank and choose escort, science etc. Personally, i'm expecting that phase of the game to be short lived.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:28 PM

Well we all know the noob ships would be an old design, I prefer it that way. Feels like you have to earn your new shiny ship that you don't want scratched. I do see what you are saying but again it just could be that these ships are fast and easy to construct compaired to the Steamrunner.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 12:28 PM

I wonder how the preorder ship will fit into this. If you have any military experience, then you would know any 'newbie' ends up flying or training in some old heap.

We still use F-16s to train pilots and they were developed about 40 years ago.

But we dont use Sopwith Camels to train them, which is still younger than the Miranda will be.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:32 PM

The point is, they wouldn't trust a brand new pilot with a multi million dollar F22 raptor when he/she has just graduated from flight school. Same can be said for Star Fleet

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 12:34 PM

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:37 PM

I dont think its really too big of an issue, I'll still buy and play the game and enjoy toying around in my old and busted junker ;) But to have 3 ships that were supposed to have been retired from service ages ago just rubs me the wrong way. I have no problem earning a shiney new ship, in fact I look forward to it.

I think that is the point, to make you want your new ship. But again who says your Miranda wont have been constructed 2 years ago? Or that you're not its first captain?

Personally I am just after my Excalibur class :D

gair22

10-09-2009, 12:37 PM

In reality, the military 'retires' planes, but the still working ones stay in the fleet and are generally used for training purposes. It makes perfect sense to me.

This still raises the question though. Where does the preorder ship come into effect?

gair22

10-09-2009, 12:40 PM

"Starfleet Constitution Class Starship"

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:43 PM

"Starfleet Constitution Class Starship"

If thats the preorder ship then Cryptic can have my money now :D And I'll never EVER get rid of it even if it means I never progress in the game LOL

gair22

10-09-2009, 12:45 PM

Star Trek Online with Bonus! $49.99 Pre-order Ships 2/2/2010

Reserve Star Trek Online and receive a GameStop exclusive in-game Starfleet Constitution Class Starship. This unique, upgradable starship comes equipped with blue phasers and an extra engineering station mod slot. Available online and in-store while supplies last.

Star Trek Online Collector's Edition $79.99

.. it doesn't say what the collector's edition entails.

128hoodmario

10-09-2009, 12:47 PM

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:51 PM

I buy a new computor?

I don't understand you point?

@Gair nice but I was hoping for the refit ;)

128hoodmario

10-09-2009, 12:56 PM

I don't understand you point?

@Gair nice but I was hoping for the refit ;)

You were saying that everybody upgrades their computor but I don't and if it gets too out of date I buy a new one? No sub text I just buy a new computor

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 12:59 PM

You were saying that everybody upgrades their computor but I don't and if it gets too out of date I buy a new one? No sub text I just buy a new computor

That's just a tad bit nit picking don't you think? And I did not say "everybody" I asked "how often do you replace parts in your computer while keeping the case?" When my computer is old I do go out and replace the entire system, but my case is an expensive versitile case and has housed the past 3 computers I've owned. That was my point, while the Miranda profile may have remained the same it does not mean that the internals is outdated and old.

cstaricha

10-09-2009, 01:02 PM

Hmm so if i pre order it i get a constitution to start OUT with? or would we have to wait...thats the question.

gair22

10-09-2009, 01:03 PM

Hmm so if i pre order it i get a constitution to start OUT with? or would we have to wait...thats the question.

Yes, that is the question.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 01:07 PM

I think that is the point, to make you want your new ship. But again who says your Miranda wont have been constructed 2 years ago? Or that you're not its first captain?

Personally I am just after my Excalibur class :D

The problem I have is all the choices for first ship are around 150 yr old designs, im not implying that the ships are that old just the disigns. I know upgrades and modernization can make them just as usefull but why not throw in a newer disign. I know its just out first ship and it probably wont take too long to advance up and get a new ship, I would have like to see one newer disign for our first commision is all.
And all the references about training ships is pointless since none of us are starting as ensigns and Im not asking for a Soverign. Just a more modern design with the same capabilities as the other first tier ships.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 01:08 PM

Another question, lets say you get this original Constitution class ship, could you then upgrade its profile to the refit? Same with the Intrepid class, could you upgrade this ship to the new profile? Or would you have "buy" (for lack of a better understanding on how you get your ships) the new class and sell the old?

frost1977

10-09-2009, 01:13 PM

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Well I can't disagree with you there. But I think they are doing a good job for the most part, I mean hopefully as time goes by we'll see some more ship classes added to the game. I mean in Champions online Cryptic are already adding a new power class to the game, which is a big plus in my eyes. Who's to say we wont see new ship classes added to the game every other month?

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 01:28 PM

my biggest disappointment is that the miranda class and the soyuz are so similar, they share the same hull and pylon/warp nacelles the only visible difference is that the miranda replaces the top mounted phasers with a torpedo launcher,

I agree, I know I said scrap all the first ships but just replacing the Soyuz would be fine. I picked the Steamrunner because its the only newish ship I can think of not on the list already, and it fits the bill.

As for the Constitution class pre order, I would assume you can upgrade it and modify it just as much as any other ship. I wouldnt think it would be useable as your first ship but I could be and hope im wrong. I think it would be really cool to have as your first ship as a reward for pre-ordering, not just a cool ship to have later on.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 01:35 PM

I think it would be really cool to have as your first ship as a reward for pre-ordering, not just a cool ship to have later on.

I am 50/50 on that, yes it would be great to get your reward right off the bat and stand out from everyone else. But I would also feel cheated if your first ship is replaced within 2-5 hours of gameplay. That would frustrate me ever so slightly.

Pipsqueek78

10-09-2009, 01:41 PM

I wonder how the preorder ship will fit into this. If you have any military experience, then you would know any 'newbie' ends up flying or training in some old heap.

We still use F-16s to train pilots and they were developed about 40 years ago.

Heh, they're still using T-38s out here at Randolph.....

@Gair nice but I was hoping for the refit ;)

I think both are in actually. There were screenshots taken from PAX showing the Connie refit, but whether its it's own ship or just a possible customization (or just an easter egg for PAX) I'm not sure.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 02:09 PM

[QUOTE=Cpt_Armstrong]I am 50/50 on that, yes it would be great to get your reward right off the bat and stand out from everyone else. But I would also feel cheated if your first ship is replaced within 2-5 hours of gameplay. That would frustrate me ever so slightly.[/QUOTE

It has been said that you get to keep all your ships. You could fly your Miranda even if your an admiral, and still have that Prometheus waiting for your next mission.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 02:11 PM

It has been said that you get to keep all your ships. You could fly your Miranda even if your an admiral, and still have that Prometheus waiting for your next mission.

True, I did read that but I'd rather your preorder ship (if there is one) to not be your first and also not the most powerful one. A Cruiser would be a nice ship to select, something in the middle which you could take out frequently and not worried about getting killed every 5 seconds just because you want to use it.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 02:14 PM

True, I did read that but I'd rather your preorder ship (if there is one) to not be your first and also not the most powerful one. A Cruiser would be a nice ship to select, something in the middle which you could take out frequently and not worried about getting killed every 5 seconds just because you want to use it.

Thats true, you wouldnt want something that gave you a big advantage at the start and on the flip side something that is a big disadvantage later on.

eqfan592

10-09-2009, 02:27 PM

But we dont use Sopwith Camels to train them, which is still younger than the Miranda will be.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Funniest comment of the week award goes to you, sir! I can just picture the pilots lined up for training.

Trainer: "You'll be flying the most advanced jet fighters the US Military has. So, to start you off, let me introduce you to the Sopwith Camel..."

Seriously though, as funny as the remark is, I can't say I entirely agree with the point it makes. While the original Miranda design is over 100 years old at the time of the game, the innards have certainly been changed out/upgraded. In fact, they probably still make new production ships of that design with simply up to date systems, because the design itself works well. I don't think it'd be fair to classify it as a cruiser any more, even though that's how it tends to get classified anyway. It's more of a patrol-ship/frigate/run around and put out all the small fires in the federation type ship.

Laphtiya

10-09-2009, 02:52 PM

Needless to say if this is in fact available in the game I want it and I'd never stop commanding it. :D

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/hittingsmoke/STO%20-%20PAX/DSC_0140.jpg

Murgenpl

10-09-2009, 02:56 PM

ok lets assume that all those ships are real :) the difference between camel/f16 and soyuz/defiant (dont have much info about ships so pls but whatever ship u want in place of defiant) is that those starship use same technology. Warp engines , phazers , photon/quantum torps , shields etc. where our avionic technology changed quite a bit in last 100 years. Our naval technology havent change so much , of course we use different materials but hull is a hull and if u will see a ship design from 300 years ago u will still know that this is a ship. first sail boats arent so different from the new ones. 2000 y.o bow is similar to bow made in 2010. U say that those startrek ships are ancient but u compare age of warp engine in startrek universe to the huge step forward in our XX century science. I think that there is no way to compare it

Tain

10-09-2009, 03:40 PM

A thing to remember here is these are starships. They are not ocean going vessels, they are not aircraft. The external appearance of these ships does not need to evovle as real ships and aircraft did due to drag forces, lift, streamlining- they operate in a vacuum. So long is a spaceframe is sound, there is no reason to redesign the wheel with it. If you can build them to take newer technology, you will. Since the actual hull lines don't need to change at all to keep pace with advances in technology, there would be no reason to change the look of the ship other than vanity- and nobody is going to commission new starships on vanity alone.

The simple fact is the Miranda spaceframe has always been good for the role it was designed to fill, and has found niches in others. Starfleet saw no reason to redesign its wheel when it can simply keep producing Miranda spaceframes adapted for newer technological advances- which is exactly what we saw in the show. Its why their warp nacelles started glowing in the DS9 era, etc. Ship hull configurations could feasibly endure for many centuries, hell, even thousands of years for big advanced races. You should check out how long hull designs stay in use in *other* respectable scifi universes.

ODST_General

10-09-2009, 05:00 PM

Well your biggest concern seems to be based around more so aesthetics more so then anything, well you will be able to change your ships appearance. While I have no idea to what extent I am sure you will be able to bring its looks up to date, if the default look has not already been changed for the new look.

The overall designwas not just used for the Miranda and Soyuz though, to me it appears to be a very similar design to the Nebula class starship. Its a small compact design that seems quite effective. That is just my take on it anyways

Kayden

10-09-2009, 05:48 PM

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 06:26 PM

I think Norway, Constellation, Miranda, Oberth, Steam runner and Daedalus are going to be options starting off, but don't hold me to that. There isn't a whole lot of info on the other ships on the website and I think they will try and put newer designs in to mix it up but I think there going to try and keep some of the old too.

I would like to start off in an Akira Class myself. :D:D:D:D

EDIT: I forgot Saber & Nova

You should have anouther look at the Ships of the Line on the main page. Norway, Constellation, Akira, Saber and Nova are all in the game but arent available at first it seems.

As for my Sopwith Camel remark it was just in responce to a previous remark, obviously there is no real comparison btween the camel and an f-15 compared to the Miranda and anouther newer starship. But I would really just like to know why all 3 choices are from 100+ year old designs. That and two of them are very similar so why not have the Miranda, Centaur and one from the latter half of the 24th century.

Laurelin

10-09-2009, 06:32 PM

Needless to say if this is in fact available in the game I want it and I'd never stop commanding it. :D

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/hittingsmoke/STO%20-%20PAX/DSC_0140.jpg

Thats the Tier 1 Constitution class, so yes it's in the game once you make Lt. Commander and have the skill to use it.

cstaricha

10-09-2009, 06:35 PM

so still the question is...lol is it worth it?

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 06:41 PM

I think they mean the pre order speacial edition Constitution class with blue phasers and an extra engineering slot. Would this ship be worth paying xtra for?

eqfan592

10-09-2009, 06:42 PM

I think they mean the pre order speacial edition Constitution class with blue phasers and an extra engineering slot. Would this ship be worth paying xtra for?

It's not anything extra money wise, it's a pre-order bonus. What is in the special edition is still unknown.

Kayden

10-09-2009, 08:05 PM

You should have anouther look at the Ships of the Line on the main page. Norway, Constellation, Akira, Saber and Nova are all in the game but arent available at first it seems.

As for my Sopwith Camel remark it was just in responce to a previous remark, obviously there is no real comparison btween the camel and an f-15 compared to the Miranda and anouther newer starship. But I would really just like to know why all 3 choices are from 100+ year old designs. That and two of them are very similar so why not have the Miranda, Centaur and one from the latter half of the 24th century.

I was just speculating to which ones we would be able to use cause there hasn't been any official comment on the subject, but whose to say they wont add or subtract from that list? It's just conjecture and keep in mind if they want to keep a ship design in service longer then originally projected they can and WILL do it. I was in the air force and worked on the B1-B there making many many MANY changes to it to keep it in service over 50% longer then the original speculated life time of the air craft so it can happen.

ODST_General

10-09-2009, 08:11 PM

Well a ships of the line list with the name of all the ships and when you get them released by the devs seems pretty official to me. But as you said who knows it may change or be expanded, and as they said more ships may be added post launch too.

Bastrol

10-09-2009, 08:21 PM

I was just speculating to which ones we would be able to use cause there hasn't been any official comment on the subject, but whose to say they wont add or subtract from that list? It's just conjecture and keep in mind if they want to keep a ship design in service longer then originally projected they can and WILL do it. I was in the air force and worked on the B1-B there making many many MANY changes to it to keep it in service over 50% longer then the original speculated life time of the air craft so it can happen.

I think your missing my point. Im just saying why do we have to pick from 3 very old designs at first. I know they can upgrade and lengthen the life and just keep the shell but add all new components, however why not have a newer ship as one option to start with.
Just because you were in the airforce and I wasnt doesnt mean that I know nothing about the subject. A better plane to reference to would be the B-52. In service for over 50 years and still going strong :D

Eclipse1987

10-09-2009, 08:24 PM

I was just speculating to which ones we would be able to use cause there hasn't been any official comment on the subject, but whose to say they wont add or subtract from that list? It's just conjecture and keep in mind if they want to keep a ship design in service longer then originally projected they can and WILL do it. I was in the air force and worked on the B1-B there making many many MANY changes to it to keep it in service over 50% longer then the original speculated life time of the air craft so it can happen.

the official comment was the list.

1000-1 they wont detract from the list, add yes, subtract no.

and since the devs. worked on and posted it, I dont see it as conjecture, more as confirmed.

besides Rekhan confirmed a similar list (from gamespy) a while ago, so most of those ships you mentioned we've known about for awhile.

Sworoth

10-09-2009, 10:22 PM

The Miranda Class is a fine starship i would not mind having that ship as my starer ship. I looked the list for ships and ranks and i was most pleased with it. They kept more advance and modern class ships within reach, and kept some classics for higher ranks like the Galaxy class. So basicly i am ok with it.

solidfrog

10-10-2009, 12:49 AM

I understand the concept of getting a older, less powerfull ship when you first start out in the game. I also have no problems with the Miranda class in general. My only concern is the age of the ship. Would it be a straight up Miranda class, or a refit of some kind? Starfeet does have the ability to build very reliable ships that can hold up to time and alot of upgrades, but at this point in the timeline would it not be quicker to pump out a bunch of Nova classes as opposed to hollowing out a very old ship and filling it with systems it was never really designed for?
I will give the game a shot no matter what ship I start with, Like I said I have no problems at all the the Miranda class, I just find it hard to buy that given all the conflicts the Federation has faced recently that there would be many of them left in service. The Dominon war alone took a heavy toll on Starfleet ship numbers.

Laphtiya

10-10-2009, 01:15 AM

I think they mean the pre order speacial edition Constitution class with blue phasers and an extra engineering slot. Would this ship be worth paying xtra for?

I was born in the 80s and my dad used to sit me infront of reruns of the original series so yeah I'd think it would be worth paying extra for ;) or at least pre-ordering.

I understand the concept of getting a older, less powerfull ship when you first start out in the game. I also have no problems with the Miranda class in general. My only concern is the age of the ship. Would it be a straight up Miranda class, or a refit of some kind? Starfeet does have the ability to build very reliable ships that can hold up to time and alot of upgrades, but at this point in the timeline would it not be quicker to pump out a bunch of Nova classes as opposed to hollowing out a very old ship and filling it with systems it was never really designed for?

I can understand this as well, I doubt that it will be a flat out old Miranda. Starfleet would have upgraded it with the largest warp core that the ship could take and the best weapons and shields that it could carry as well. Again perhaps because of its size and shape the Miranda profile is very simple to put together perhaps more so than the most recent designs out there.

Admiral-Darren-Wright

10-10-2009, 01:26 AM

I think it actually makes a lot of sense, they dont people to be in too small and too weak a ship, as it means a lot more leveling and programming work, keeping things not to far away from the top stuff but still a bit of work away, saves them a lot of work and means we get to jump straight into the action of the game and have a little more fun.

I do not absoloutly love the starter ships, BUT id rather have a Miranda than a type 2 shuttle lol, and also, i plan on leveling up my Starter ship as quick as i can, so if you dont like it, then simply acheive in it and move on faster !

FlabaFlopesa

10-10-2009, 03:18 AM

Just because something is old, doesn't mean you chuck it out. I bet they'll be alot of people pleased to be able to use the miranda - I personally prefer the centaur (which I think is a newer ship )- plus, if you gave people the option of the steamrunner or sabre at start, I don't think anyone would use the miranda or soyuz

swiftomnium

10-10-2009, 03:46 AM

It has been said that the succes of a starship design can be seen in the number of major variants derived from the original design. If this is true then the Mrianda-class vessel ranks among the original Constitution and Excelsior classes as one of the most succesful designs ever. Eight major and no fewer than 25 minor variants were derived from the original Miranda-class vessel, which was itself, a Constitution-class refit derived vessel. The Miranda based variants dominated fleet designs for nearly 75 years in the same way the original Constitution-class vessels did before them. So my honeypumpkins: you should be honored to fly such a vessel at the very beginning of your careers!

And for the Soyuz-class: I must admit that it is a Miranda variant, so maybe it laks creativity, but o boy it is the best variant ever! The additional hull section to the aft of the vessel houses two fixed pylon-mounted pulse phaser cannons and 2 more mounted on the outboard hull edges, making the forward firing capability of this vessel quite formidable! ;) In a way, you can see the Soyuz as your way up to the Vigilant-class.

Acyl

10-10-2009, 04:12 AM

I think your missing my point. Im just saying why do we have to pick from 3 very old designs at first. I know they can upgrade and lengthen the life and just keep the shell but add all new components, however why not have a newer ship as one option to start with.

You're not thinking metatexually. :)

Look, why is the Miranda the starting Starfleet ship? If the Miranda weren't in the game, fans would be upset. So it needs to be in. But it's really old. So it's the newbie ship. Ok.

Right. But then we need a couple class variants.

At this point Cryptic has choices. They can either INVENT two new ships that have the same shape as the Miranda, or they can choose two CANON ships of the same config.

Now, there's lots of people on these forums who want more canon ships, and less new stuff invented by Cryptic. Because folks wanna see ships that are known and loved.

On the OTHER hand, there's also people here who think...because STO is set in 2409, we should see fewer canon designs. Since they'd all be obsolete by 2409.

Who wins? In this case, the canon side won. Cryptic picked the Miranda, Centaur and Soyuz - three canon classes.

lothic

10-10-2009, 05:04 AM

A nod to the "old-school canon" faction of players is exactly what this is.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. :)

Let's put it this way: We all know the Star Trek universe has several hundred years worth of starships for Federation players to choose from. Making them ALL have to be newer than say 2350 (for the 2409 setting of the MMO) might make sense if this was a simulation of a "real" space-faring navy. But this is a MMO game, not a real navy.

The fact that Cryptic is allowing a Constitution class ship be the GameStop preorder prize proves that the Devs don't mind giving us classes of ships to play with that are 'technically' 150+ years old. That bit of "realism" is already a non-issue in this MMO.

Besides ultimately worrying about the starter ships is practically a moot point when most players will be past using them within a few hours of starting the game anyway. *shrugs*

frost1977

10-10-2009, 05:23 AM

it would also be nice, if you could refit you ship, once you are promoted to make it a viable option for use in the rank tier above where you get it.

so your miranda could be re-fit to be just as useful as a excaliber (like some one said the outward apperence of a ship has no bearing on what is on the inside)

say you take a constitution class design, build the frame & hull out of 25th centery materails, and stick

equipment similar to a galaxy or defiant class into it. since the constitution (and excaliber for that matter) are
LT commander lvl ships. I would hope through upgrades that it could become and effective commander lvl ship as well.

that would allow for some more diversity once we all make captain and admiral, instead of everyone running around in just a handful of ship designs.

geodbdrunk01

10-10-2009, 05:24 AM

It makes sense to me... despite reports that the Miranda was supposed to be mothballed. Think about it, Starfleet suffers significant losses in the Dominion War as well as against the Borg in sector 001. The loss of ship production from shipyard retooling would be significant enough for a decision to be made to postpone retiring the venerable, but efficient and serviceable Miranda line.

In times of war and high tensions, it is hardly a good idea to take ships of the line. So Starfleet keeps the Miranda in service until such a time when they can be retired without compromising the security and safety of the Federation.

lothic

10-10-2009, 05:49 AM

it would also be nice, if you could refit you ship, once you are promoted to make it a viable option for use in the rank tier above where you get it.

I'd agree with your idea up to a point.

I don't have any problem with a ship looking like a 150 year old Miranda with 25th century tech inside it. But a small ship is pretty much always going to be a small ship regardless of the tech you fly with. A small ship packed with 25th century tech should pretty much always be less capabale than a larger ship packed with equivalent tech.

Sure there are stories in the Star Trek universe about adrimals flying around in small ships just because they like them. But that doesn't mean a light cruiser is ever going to be able to pound-for-pound outgun a battle cruiser regardless of who's in the captain's chair. ;)

frost1977

10-10-2009, 06:30 AM

I'd agree with your idea up to a point.

I don't have any problem with a ship looking like a 150 year old Miranda with 25th century tech inside it. But a small ship is pretty much always going to be a small ship regardless of the tech you fly with. A small ship packed with 25th century tech should pretty much always be less capabale than a larger ship packed with equivalent tech.

Sure there are stories in the Star Trek universe about adrimals flying around in small ships just because they like them. But that doesn't mean a light cruiser is ever going to be able to pound-for-pound outgun a battle cruiser regardless of who's in the captain's chair. ;)

the defiant & vigilant are small ships. small than either the miranda or constitution class.

pack there warp cores and weapons systems into a constitution or miranda class frame.
the re-fit constitution class is nearly 400 meters long. you might have to thin down on a research lab or two but. its the same size as the intrepid

while it might not be able to do it all as well as a galaxy class. i would think it not to unreasonable to assume it could be brought up to the standard of the stargazer for certain, and maybe and intrepid or defiant class

lothic

10-10-2009, 06:47 AM

the defiant & vigilant are small ships. small than either the miranda or constitution class.

pack there warp cores and weapons systems into a constitution or miranda class frame.
the re-fit constitution class is nearly 400 meters long. you might have to thin down on a research lab or two but. its the same size as the intrepid

while it might not be able to do it all as well as a galaxy class. i would think it not to unreasonable to assume it could be brought up to the standard of the stargazer for certain, and maybe and intrepid or defiant class

Somehow I knew someone would bother to quibble about this...
Combat ability is only ONE aspect of what a ship can do.

Sure you can pack a small hull full of weapons and warpcores, but a small hull will always be less overall capable than a larger hull just in terms of pure space to work with. If small ships could do everything why would there ever be larger ones? ;)

My main point is that a small hull should never be able to be refit to be able to do everything just as well as a larger hull is capable of. That's especially true in the context of game balance for a MMO. A ship "overclocked" for one function will always suffered setbacks in other areas. Basically to put it into car terms a Yugo will never be able to carry more equipment than say an 18-wheeler.

frost1977

10-10-2009, 12:29 PM

Somehow I knew someone would bother to quibble about this...
Combat ability is only ONE aspect of what a ship can do.

Sure you can pack a small hull full of weapons and warpcores, but a small hull will always be less overall capable than a larger hull just in terms of pure space to work with. If small ships could do everything why would there ever be larger ones? ;)

My main point is that a small hull should never be able to be refit to be able to do everything just as well as a larger hull is capable of. That's especially true in the context of game balance for a MMO. A ship "overclocked" for one function will always suffered setbacks in other areas. Basically to put it into car terms a Yugo will never be able to carry more equipment than say an 18-wheeler.

I am not saying a smaller hull should be able to do everything that a larger one. I am saying that in theory it would be possable to build (and the ships we will have even though they are an older design might be only a few years old) a ship that looks like a constitution, or miranda class with New parts and be equaly capable New design ships of similar size.

actualy all the ships in the game are more or less specialized. and most of the ships are all in the same sized range as each other, the intrepid class (voyager)norway, discovery, constellation (stargazer), miranda, and constitution are all in that 350 meter ball park.

and we are looking at specialized ships more or less with the break down of cruisers, escorts, and science vessels.

while the cruisers seem to be a bit open to do a little bit of everything.

the other 2 are specialized a bit more

i am not saying that they could compare to a Galaxy class ship which is 700 meters. (no idea about the envoy or celestial since we have no data on those two but i would assume similar in size to galaxy class since they are all captain level exploration crusiers.

I would say that in theory a constitution or miranda class design could be brought up to snuff with voyager or the defiant(which is a lot smaller;) ) and vessels that are specialized for science and one as a fighter.

I would like to see the constitution class be able to be brought up to equals with the stargazer,

and in the case of the Excalibur class (( i would actually have expected it and the stargazer to be flipped on levels with the stargazer a LT. commander ship, and the excalibur to be commander level)

blujester

10-10-2009, 12:56 PM

Why is the Miranda in the game? Same reason the B-52 is still in service 60 some years after it was commissioned ... It works. It's cheap to build by modern standards and the grave yards are full of serviceable parts. The Fed is on the brink of all out war with the KDF so it needs all the ships it can get flying, if nothing else, to free up the more advanced vessels to operate closer to the NZ. It does make sense.

Is the Miranda of today the same as the Miranda of yesterday, in a word, no. It's obviously an old design but a tried and true one who's limitations are well known. It's not suitable for front line combat but in times of crises (The Dominion Wars) it is still relied upon for support and even combat duties when no better alternative is to be found.

And the last reason it's still in service, it's beautiful and many of us love it and would be upset to not get to fly one at all. I mean..just look at the bottom ship here and tell me thats not the coolest Miranda config you've ever seen.

http://www.zam.com/Im/image/128535

Thats why it's in..and I'm happy for it. :)

Bj

Kayden

10-10-2009, 01:45 PM

I think your missing my point. Im just saying why do we have to pick from 3 very old designs at first. I know they can upgrade and lengthen the life and just keep the shell but add all new components, however why not have a newer ship as one option to start with.
Just because you were in the airforce and I wasnt doesnt mean that I know nothing about the subject. A better plane to reference to would be the B-52. In service for over 50 years and still going strong :D

Certainly true about the B-52 I just worked on the B1-B so I spoke from personal experience. To answer your question about why use those ships and not something new is probably 2 fold 1) People are familiar with them and they give Star Trek Online the ability to get noticed from those who are very casual. 2) Copyright, they probably didn't get a lot of leeway to make there own custom ships, they may have had to use the older ships to keep with the essence of Star Trek, really would you think this was a Star Trek game if they took all the older ships? I wouldn't just putting the ST name and familiar ships & uniforms wouldn't do it for me and I don't think many people would either so they stayed close to a time that would be able to use those older ships. I just speculate but I would think those are good reasons to keep them.

emery0

10-10-2009, 01:50 PM

I wonder how the preorder ship will fit into this. If you have any military experience, then you would know any 'newbie' ends up flying or training in some old heap.

We still use F-16s to train pilots and they were developed about 40 years ago.

The US Air Force uses T-38's which are 50 years old, they looking to replace the T-38's in 2017.

JMD10222

10-10-2009, 01:55 PM

cocoa-jin

10-10-2009, 01:56 PM

They are great starter ships. You arent exactly intended on going deep into known, heavily hostile areas on your first tour/ship.

You'll be babied a tad bit on your first commission...you'd be given an old ship and let loose to see what you can do with it. Then released to more difficult taskings and evaluated. In due time and after proving one's self and crew, you'd be given a better ship.

In non-combat taskings, the old starships are just fine for exploring, relaying supplies, shuttling personel, policing relativly quiet areas, performing follow up studyies and gathering data on previously discovered phenomena, showing Federation presence and influence.

Space and the people who have part of the Fed for centuries havent changed much...if the 23rd Century vessels could do the job then, they can do the job now...the Universe and its properties havent gotten harder over the years, natural law and the properties of the universe are basically the same...there is no reason to think that old ships cant continue to perform basic non-combat taskings .