Locked Klingons

[Exist-nl-]

From Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=1)

Ok there seems to be something on the latest article with Zinc that concerns me .

"Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

EDIT:
Keep this in mind: This is a very limited explanation from Zinc Hopefully. we will get some detailed info on it , so it does make some more sense

[zanderj]

Having a thread about it will most likely result in flamewars and trolling.

About the decision, aslong as it is worked out properly, I see no harm in this. Either way, I will have a Federation and a Klingon character.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

From this interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=1):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich (Executive Producer of Star Trek Online): "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

Eurogamer: "It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?"

Craig Zinkievich: "No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

So everyone MUST start off playing as a Starfleet officer before they can play as a Klingon. I'm not sure how I feel about that, or why they choose to do it that way.

How do all of you Klingon players feel about this new announcement?

[Spacemanspiff]

Ok there seems to be something on the latest article with Zinc that concerns me .

"Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

This looks like a weird choice to me and I don't understand why they would do it this way.
Seems to me the Klingon will be underpopulated even more .

Wha wha whaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!??

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Ah! You beat me to it by two whole minutes!

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

From this interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=1):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich (Executive Producer of Star Trek Online): "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

So everyone MUST start off playing as a Starfleet officer before they can play as a Klingon. I'm not sure how I feel about that, or why they choose to do it that way.

How do all of you Klingon players feel about this new announcement?

Actually Federation players take an hour and a half before they can get a Bo and a ship in space. Dont rush things, Klingons will be Klingons, its just there academy process is different from ours. Im sure this is what they mean. It has been said by many including J Everett that Klingons and Feds are available from the get go.

[Spacemanspiff]

I would like to see this explained in more detail . . .

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

I love the image of the Cochrane against the Valdore variant.

Romulans will love seeing this.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Craig Zinkievich: At launch there will only be two playable factions.

As said there will be two, just there is a few things you must do before you actually get your character and your ship, the feds takes at least 1.5hours, from Zinc earlier in the year and the Klingons looks to be several hours, possible as there is a lot more house to house combat, and scenarios, far more than the Feds have to deal with.

We will both get our side and our own faction, just we wont get the keys to the ship instantly, theres a few hoops to do first.
:D

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Craig Zinkievich: Oh yeah, definitely. As we developed the game we made a list of all the races, all the different factions people want to play: the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassians will come back - there's a huge number who want to play as them, but not within the Star Fleet, not within the Federation. So, plenty of different factions that can be and will be added after launch.

Been telling people for months and months lol. And also two sides join against the other two as well :p mark my words lol. Youll see soon enough lol. :p

[Exist-nl-]

Having a thread about it will most likely result in flamewars and trolling.

About the decision, aslong as it is worked out properly, I see no harm in this. Either way, I will have a Federation and a Klingon character.

That will happen anyway, I intend to keep an close eye to this thread and send a request to close it if necesary.
So all of you keep your posts useful and don't take your frustrations out in here.

[Talec]

Personally I am intrigued...<starts watching thread with interest>

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

There will indeed be klingons from the start but if you read my comment in the other thread, Feds have to jump through a few hoops before they get there ship, Zinc and Everett said them selvs that it can take an hour and a half before they get there character and ship and there first BO, Klingons have house to house complications etc. It takes a while before you get your faction character going.

There will be factions from the get go, you just have to do a whole bunch of things before you unlock them.

:D

[Vampir888]

Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player.

I have to agree with Peregrine that it sounds as if you won't be able to create a klingon player from the start. Zink didn't say you need hours to unlock klingon ships/BOs but to even be able to create a klingon player.

But there is hope that he meant you need several hours until you can create a klingon player on the federation side.

[Pyrceval]

It is a strange decision...and I hope for more clarification certainly...maybe its just the basic 'tutorial' is run through with a Federation character and after that you can create your Klingon? Just a thought.

[Paulo999]

It is a strange decision...and I hope for more clarification certainly...maybe its just the basic 'tutorial' is run through with a Federation character and after that you can create your Klingon? Just a thought.

lol i always skip them.. just go straight into the game :D

[Ruthlessgravity]

it may be strange, but obviously the devs know what there doing.

[Pyrceval]

lol i always skip them.. just go straight into the game :D

Generally in MMO's you can't. Sometimes you they ad that ability, after one character on your account has been through it.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Please Read !

From this interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=1):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich (Executive Producer of Star Trek Online): "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

So everyone MUST start off playing as a Starfleet officer before they can play as a Klingon. I'm not sure how I feel about that, or why they choose to do it that way.

How do all of you Klingon players feel about this new announcement?

Actually Federation players take an hour and a half before they can get a Bo and a ship in space. Dont rush things, Klingons will be Klingons, its just there academy process is different from ours. Im sure this is what they mean. It has been said by many including J Everett that Klingons and Feds are available from the get go.

I love the image of the Cochrane against the Valdore variant.

Romulans will love seeing this.

Craig Zinkievich: At launch there will only be two playable factions.

As said there will be two, just there is a few things you must do before you actually get your character and your ship, the feds takes at least 1.5hours, from Zinc earlier in the year and the Klingons looks to be several hours, possible as there is a lot more house to house combat, and scenarios, far more than the Feds have to deal with.

We will both get our side and our own faction, just we wont get the keys to the ship instantly, theres a few hoops to do first.
:D


Craig Zinkievich: Oh yeah, definitely. As we developed the game we made a list of all the races, all the different factions people want to play: the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassians will come back - there's a huge number who want to play as them, but not within the Star Fleet, not within the Federation. So, plenty of different factions that can be and will be added after launch.

Been telling people for months and months lol. And also two sides join against the other two as well :p mark my words lol. Youll see soon enough lol. :p

I have to agree with Peregrine that it sounds as if you won't be able to create a klingon player from the start. Zink didn't say you need hours to unlock klingon ships/BOs but to even be able to create a klingon player.

But there is hope that he meant you need several hours until you can create a klingon player on the federation side.

It quite clearly states and has been confirmed by Jack Everat and Zinc and a few others at Pax on the team that Klingons and Federation WILL BE THERE FROM THE START, but there is a few things you have to do from the start to unlock the characters on both sides, the Federation will take up to 1.5 hours, and the klingons have house to house and honour things to deal with before they unlock. Dont see more in this article than there actually is. We both have to unlock things and we both have playable factions from the very get go.

If people would just listen to me they wouldnt panick and cause fuss thats really not needed :)

[Gideon]

If this means a single tutorial that everyone goes through before you create your character for either side then OK I guess. Maybe something on a holodeck? I could see a universal tutorial being useful for the development cycle. If they want to add another faction then they don't have to worry about making another tutorial for them. But if this means everyone starts as a Federation player then after the tutorial you can make a Klingon character then I think that's a bad idea. Talk about making the Klingon side feel tacked on or that they're second class. I'd prefer a delay in release so that both sides have a separate tutorial.

Without explanation people are going to assume the worst so I hope we get some comments from a developer or two about this.

[Pyrceval]

Okay...not flaming or panicking in anyway...but, your own quote shows that he clearly says 'It will be several hours in the game before you can CREATE (note the word) a klingon player. "


So...since you have to have a character to start the game with...it appears obvious one must first create a starfleet character, probably run through the tutorial as that starfleet character, and then perhaps after the tutorial is done, you gain the ability to log o ut of that character anc reate a klingon if you so desire. But again, he clearly said several hours before you can create a klingon character.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

But there is hope that he meant you need several hours until you can create a klingon player on the federation side.
I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. The character creator isn't going to limit parts in the beginning to keep people from playing Klingons. It's pretty obvious that meant "Klingon Gameplay", as in being in the Klingon Defense Force.

The more that I think about it, the more I'm starting to dislike being locked out of Klingon gameplay. I had planned that my first character would be a Klingon. Sure I was going to play in Starfleet too, but I was going to wait until later.

Not anymore! Now I'm forced to make a Starfleet character, even if I don't want to.

[zanderj]

Darren Wright is ... Right. (heh)

No need to panic. Its just a way of words, sortaspeak.

I'm thinking, a fedbased "tutorial" and afterwich, you can choose to play as a Klingon.

Anyways, good summerising, Darren. Good read aswell.

[Paulo999]

that or they mean your be stuck downloading updates :O

Craig Zinkievich: Oh yeah, definitely. As we developed the game we made a list of all the races, all the different factions people want to play: the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassians will come back - there's a huge number who want to play as them, but not within the Star Fleet, not within the Federation. So, plenty of different factions that can be and will be added after launch.

Terran Empire FTW?!

[Exist-nl-]

that still doesnt change the fact that it feels weird to first create a starfleet toon to play as klingon later on.

and were not panicing :)

[duckforceone]

Edit : KHAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!

i don't want to play a fed for a few hours before i can create a klingon...

[Pyrceval]

that or they mean your be stuck downloading updates :O

?!



Lol, now that is undoubtedly a true statement :)

[Exist-nl-]

geez a thread can be misunderstood if taken out of context...

OP, please edit your first post a bit to reflect that it takes 1.5 hours for feds to unlock their ship, and several hours for klingons...

not that you have to play fed first before you can play klingon... :D

phew... was about to shout... KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

I think you got it wrong, we do have to go through something first before you can play as klingon.
"The Klingon gameplay will unlock"
I hope its not :
Creating a fed toon first and then go through fed combat training.

[Vampir888]

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. The character creator isn't going to limit parts in the beginning to keep people from playing Klingons. It's pretty obvious that meant "Klingon Gameplay", as in being in the Klingon Defense Force.

Well you might create a character that looks like a Klingon but that isn't a Klingon. Maybe after some time you can just choose klingon like you can choose human.

Unlikely? Maybe but not impossible. (Even if it would be stupid.)

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. The character creator isn't going to limit parts in the beginning to keep people from playing Klingons. It's pretty obvious that meant "Klingon Gameplay", as in being in the Klingon Defense Force.

The more that I think about it, the more I'm starting to dislike being locked out of Klingon gameplay. I had planned that my first character would be a Klingon. Sure I was going to play in Starfleet too, but I was going to wait until later.

Not anymore! Now I'm forced to make a Starfleet character, even if I don't want to.

Its funny, you say a lot to a lot of players in the forums about not searching or not reading, if you had read mine you would not be saying what you just did.

Ok ill stop trying to save you from drowning in your own mistake. Go make it a lot worse than it actually is by your rumour mongering on a misconception and your thread may get closed because of it. (since its against the rules)

[MyOwnSling]

This is likely so they don't have to create more than one tutorial.

[duckforceone]

yeah just responded to the quotes of the guy above.... it seemed alot more sensible..

but the interview leaves no misunderstanding.. reading it now and edited my first post... :D

[Hansol]

This is likely so they don't have to create more than one tutorial.

Well thats is then pritty weak...

[Exist-nl-]

Could we possibly continue in ONE thread for the ease of it.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=28259

[Pyrceval]

Could we possibly continue in ONE thread for the ease of it.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=28259

Agree whole heartedly.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Darren Wright is ... Right. (heh)

No need to panic. Its just a way of words, sortaspeak.

I'm thinking, a fedbased "tutorial" and afterwich, you can choose to play as a Klingon.

Anyways, good summerising, Darren. Good read aswell.

Gracious of you, Thanks Captain,

Im just trying to stop a rage war on the forums, AS its really really not needed, believe me, what you have coming on both factions has been getting working on for over a year, and its pretty darn brilliant.

And we can live with jumping through a through hoops on both sides to get it. Its worth it !

[MyOwnSling]

It could be you are given a default "training" character out of the box for training and introduction to gameplay so you are more educated for when you actually create your character (so you're less likely to whine for a respec later). I know I wish I had something like that in Eve.

[JPJappic]

The more that I think about it, the more I'm starting to dislike being locked out of Klingon gameplay. I had planned that my first character would be a Klingon. Sure I was going to play in Starfleet too, but I was going to wait until later.

Not anymore! Now I'm forced to make a Starfleet character, even if I don't want to.

This is the sort of forced gameplay that has me really worried about the game. I've even brought up a few weeks ago my concerns for the Klingon faction and it's looking like what I said may have some plausibility. I really am starting to doubt Cryptic has even done anything with the Klingon side of things beyond concept work.

I can see many people being upset with the fact that you can't immediately play as the Klingon Empire from when you load up the game. What's the point of telling us you can play as either the Federation or the Klingons if you can't do one of the two from the get go?

The whole aspect about the ranks too is pure lazyness and doesn't make sense. It's good to have them in game but they should be used in a different manner. It's just hiding the fact that you're levelling up. As someone has mentioned before, they could always use some system where you're like "Novice, Intermediate, Expert" etc. and leave the actual ranks in game be or allow them to be selectable by players. It was mentioned at the Ask Cryptic chat yesterday how you pretty much automatically level up after spending a certain amount of points in a skill set. You know what.. like Riker i'd like to decide when I get to be Captain... and if Admiral is in game I'd like to decide when I get to that top rank.

I do NOT want these decisions made for me.

The more and more we get closer to launch the more and more I am starting to worry about this game and how good it'll actually be past the visuals. I want to believe that Cryptic will give me, a Star Trek fan, the game that I want to play in the universe that I love but am finding myself struggling to believe that they actually care about the property they are adjusting into an MMO based on some of the decisions they've made.

I am reminded at how let down I was with all the stuff missing content-wise in Champions Online despite that I think it's a great game that I enjoy to play.

Why were there so many bugs? Cryptic has had two previous MMOs (City of Heroes, Villains). Why were so many functions left out, especially for Super Groups? Are we going to get such an incomplete game / presentation for Star Trek Online? What was the point of releasing a launch trailer for Champions Online a month after it was launched? Shouldn't that have come with the game at launch?

These are just some of the many questions that really, REALLY have me concerned about the future success of Star Trek Online. They are aiming for people outside of Trek to play this game... I fear that in the end it shall be only Star Trek fans that will actually play it.

[duckforceone]

Gracious of you, Thanks Captain,

Im just trying to stop a rage war on the forums, AS its really really not needed, believe me, what you have coming on both factions has been getting working on for over a year, and its pretty darn brilliant.

And we can live with jumping through a through hoops on both sides to get it. Its worth it !

don't want to jump through a few hoops... other games can make multiple start areas... why not here? why do we have to be forced to play feds first?

you know when the new person into star trek loads up the game for the first time, and seing only feds be available, you know most are never going to bother making a klingon until much much later?

alot of new players tend to stick with the first character they create for quite awhile..

we already know there is going to be a huge imbalance in players on both sides, this is just widening the gap further...

to make that even, you would have to boost the klingon's pvp abilities so that they can truly be a force to be reckoned with even when outnumbered 5 to 1... or more...

[Gideon]

Craig Zinkievich: At launch there will only be two playable factions.

As said there will be two, just there is a few things you must do before you actually get your character and your ship, the feds takes at least 1.5hours, from Zinc earlier in the year and the Klingons looks to be several hours, possible as there is a lot more house to house combat, and scenarios, far more than the Feds have to deal with.

We will both get our side and our own faction, just we wont get the keys to the ship instantly, theres a few hoops to do first.
:D


But the thing is he didn't say you get your Klingon ship after several hours he said:

The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player.

This is what has us concerned. This sounds like we don't go through the tutorial as our Klingon character but that they are made after "several hours" of gameplay. What I want to know is what am I playing during those "several hours"? Am I in a generic tutorial on a holodeck, am I just a generic player in my factions tutorial and when it's over I get to design my character or (the worst case) do I have to play as a Federation character for the first part of the game before I can create a character and play on the Klingon side?

I don't want to be chicken little but this quote does raise some questions and depending on the answers could upset people planning to play on the Klingon side.

You have posted in this thread and others that you know that this isn't how things are but unless you are in beta already (and are breaking the NDA) I'll wait for the Dev response to ease my concerns.

[Exist-nl-]

I hope so too , something like basic training that is somehow a bit different from the actual game.
So when I create a new fed character I can have the option to just skip the tutorial.


So

||||||||||| =tutorial stage
....... = fed gamplay
,,,,,,, = klingon gameplay
{ = point where you start when you create an alternate(2nd) character or where you create your toon you are going to play with.

||||||||||||||||||||||||{;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


Hopefully

[Paulo999]

well maybe hes thinking it will take you an hour or so to get drunk find a batleth, join a house and start fighting some rommies.. being drunk and unable to walk might add a small delay to your plans.

hell ive got to blow up vulcan ya know... :O i need some red glowy stuff :O

[duckforceone]

I hope so too , something like basic training that is somehow a bit deifferent from the actual game.
So when i create a new fed character I can have the option to just skip the tutorial.


So

||||||||||| =tutorial stage
....... = fed gamplay
,,,,,,, = klingon gameplay
{ = point where you start when you create an alternate(2nd) character

||||||||||||||||||||||||{;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


Hopefully

that i can definately live with... :) but if you have the option to continue your tutorial character, it's a bad situation...

[wrussandrews]

Curious that you would have to unlock a race. That leads to all kinds of interesting possabilities.

[Gideon]

What I want to know is what am I playing during those "several hours"? Am I in a generic tutorial on a holodeck, am I just a generic player in my factions tutorial and when it's over I get to design my character or (the worst case) do I have to play as a Federation character for the first part of the game before I can create a character and play on the Klingon side?

[Huutini]

My guess:

It's one tutorial to rule them all...

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

well maybe hes thinking it will take you an hour or so to get drunk find a batleth, join a house and start fighting some rommies.. being drunk and unable to walk might add a small delay to your plans.

hell ive got to blow up vulcan ya know... :O i need some red glowy stuff :O

Haha, made me laugh and your pretty spot on lol:p

[Eclipse1987]

I agree it is most likely a tutorial thing and I agree best to cut this potential bomb off

that still doesnt change the fact that it feels weird to first create a starfleet toon to play as klingon later on.

and were not panicing :)

lol YOU aren't panicing but there will probably be at least a dozen freakout threads within 24 hours of this post.

[Tribbler]

From this interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=1):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich (Executive Producer of Star Trek Online): "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

So everyone MUST start off playing as a Starfleet officer before they can play as a Klingon. I'm not sure how I feel about that, or why they choose to do it that way.

How do all of you Klingon players feel about this new announcement?

I think everyone should have to endure the tutorial. It is probably just a dumbed down version of gameplay but at a slower rate of play.

Everyone in SWG starts at a station and has to do the same quests, then later you get to pick a faction.

It was good and gave everyone a same base to start from. Then you landed on Tatooine which was a main player hub (alot of activity for noobs and vets alike).

I see no issues here.

[Exist-nl-]

mm can we let 1 thread die and continue in ONE thread , or we can wait until a merge :)

Thank you.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Its funny, you say a lot to a lot of players in the forums about not searching or not reading, if you had read mine you would not be saying what you just did.
If I had read your what? Your post, your thread? When I speak to others about searching the forums it's about developer posts or threads. You can't seriously expect me or anyone else to keep track of every post that everyone makes about everything.

Or if you're talking about the fact that someone else made a thread about this same subject, then I'd like to point out that he created his thread a whole two minutes before I created mine. He and I were literally writing our posts almost simultaneously.

Ok ill stop trying to save you from drowning in your own mistake. Go make it a lot worse than it actually is by your rumour mongering on a misconception and your thread may get closed because of it. (since its against the rules)
Rumor mongering? I'm not rumor mongering. All I've done is link to a developer interview and repeat his own words.

Feel free to report my posts at any time if you feel that I've violated the forum rules.

[Exist-nl-]

I agree it is most likely a tutorial thing and I agree best to cut this potential bomb off



lol YOU aren't panicing but there will probably be at least a dozen freakout threads within 24 hours of this post.

That is why I urge everyone to stay with this thread .
One is enough already :)

[ThePet]

This was asked later in the same interview:

Eurogamer: It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?

Craig Zinkievich: No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play.

From this it doesn't sound like you cant create and play a Klingon from the start, just that because the Klingon side is more PVP based it will take some time to build your character up before you start getting into the meat and bones of what makes up the Klingon's content.

[Pyrceval]

Hmmm...while I still hope for some form of Dev clarification on this...extrapolating certain comments in these threads leads me to believe that perhaps what Zinc said is not entirely as cut and dry as we are taking it...Yep, Darren Wright...Imma lookin right at you...

[Peregrine_Falcon]

This sounds like we don't go through the tutorial as our Klingon character but that they are made after "several hours" of gameplay.
If Craig had said, "We only created one tutorial, so everyone has to go through the Starfleet tutorial so they can learn how to play the game, and then they can create a Klingon character." I'd have been totally and completely ok with that.

But he said, "...it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

That's what I personally don't like. Being forced to play for hours, hours that I frankly may not have. I'd hate to have to spend a week or more trudging through the hours of game play before I'm finally allowed to unlock my Klingon character.

I actually think that it makes sense to only have one tutorial. Why take the time and effort to make two tutorials? That time and effort can be better spent making more missions and in-game content. Honestly the only problem that I have is with the hours of gameplay required to roll the character that I really want to play.

[marscentral]

It certainly sounds like you can't create a Klingon faction captain until you've done your time in the Federation and it makes me wonder how developed the PvE element is for Klingons. I know I'm planning to start on the Federation, but it does seem a little worrying especially for the Klingon player base as I think that'll reduce their numbers still further.

[indigowhale345]

There really is no other way to spin this. Klingons are not playable from the start. That is explicitly what Zinc said. You don't get to play the Klingon side until you've played Fed for a bit.

It sounds like it may be an extended tutorial but it doesn't make sense to me, especially if its many hours into the game, that's way too long for a tutorial. You're going to have to relearn the whole gameplay anyways if you go to Klingon since he also said the gameplay would be very different and PVP focused, and not story driven.

That last part sucks really. One of the great things about factional games is seeing both points of view. If there is some great danger to the galaxy, what is the Klingon point of view as that threat gets revealed?

And what about exploration and the like, conquering new worlds and looting their tacos for the Klingon Empire? Some people will just want to play a PVE Klingon, to have the combat focus yet still avoid PVP.

Of course to be fair he did also say there is full on Klingon progression too. So there must be a hefty amount of content for them. And in all honesty, having the Klingons focus on combat more does make plenty of sense, though PVP, not necessarily. And it may be hard to expose Klingons to important story elements if they are expected to be fighting constantly.

Well I think we could use some further clarification on it in any case, though I am a bit disappointed, even as I'll primarily be a Federation brat. Its just a hoop to jump through for the Klingons when it comes down to it, but it doesn't make much sense at this point.

[Inquizitor]

Oh good grief. Talk about a non issue. REad teh WHOLE article before crying doom. He is talking about Klingon players in the federation faction. Not the Klingon faction.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

If I had read your what? Your post, your thread? When I speak to others about searching the forums it's about developer posts or threads. You can't seriously expect me or anyone else to keep track of every post that everyone makes about everything.

Or if you're talking about the fact that someone else made a thread about this same subject, then I'd like to point out that he created his thread a whole two minutes before I created mine. He and I were literally writing our posts almost simultaneously.


Rumor mongering? I'm not rumor mongering. All I've done is link to a developer interview and repeat his own words.

Feel free to report my posts at any time if you feel that I've violated the forum rules.

No i havent nor will i report you, im just saying i posted in your own thread something and you then post something ignoring it.. But if u had read what i said, you wouldnt of said what you did say.
That actually does make sense lol.
Anyway as the game gets closer everyone will find out lots of things there not 100 percent on now.

Im just trying to stop a panick, from my characters on wow, eve, lotro etc i know how panicks spread, and im trying to stop them before they get going thats all.

I know so many people are rightly excited about STO, and that people are more concerned or worried than rumour mongering, but its this that starts that off. The Co thread went bad and still is, im gonna make sure we dont follow in there footsteps. (if possible)

[Pyrceval]

Oh good grief. Talk about a non issue. REad teh WHOLE article before crying doom. He is talking about Klingon players in the federation faction. Not the Klingon faction.


Um, no, no he isnt...if you yourself read the entire article he does make that point clear.

[knightofhyrule730]

I

Rumor mongering? I'm not rumor mongering. All I've done is link to a developer interview and repeat his own words.

Feel free to report my posts at any time if you feel that I've violated the forum rules.

it's what he does. Just ignore him.

Anyway, back to topic:

WHAT? Craig. Answers. Now.

I've been a long time supporter of this game, and honestly, I'm beginning to rethink my decisions. I think its time to damn the PR people and explain to us in detail what you mean craig. and no, i do not mean rekhan, awen or any other comm mod. Craig or bust. possibly Jack, if he's moved away from CO yet.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Im just trying to stop a panick
There's no panic here, nor am I angry or flaming or trolling. I'm calmly discussing this developer interview.

I'm also not rumor mongering.

From the interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=2):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich: "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

Eurogamer: "It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?"

Craig Zinkievich: "No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

So he's very obviously not talking about Klingon characters within the Federation. He's very obviously talking about Klingon characters in the Klingon Empire.

In short I am not rumor mongering, I am repeating Craig's own words. You will have to play a Starfleet character for hours before you can even create a character in the Klingon Empire.

[Tribbler]

On another note, if the Klingons don't start in their own capitol on Kronos, that doesn't mean they won't update it a few months later.

Great thing about good MMO's is that they are always developing. It's an on going process. :D

[Starchild]

This is probably so they don't have to create two separate tutorials. You sit down, finish the tutorial, and shortly thereafter you can start a Klingon and be up and running.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

it's what he does. Just ignore him.

Anyway, back to topic:

WHAT? Craig. Answers. Now.

I've been a long time supporter of this game, and honestly, I'm beginning to rethink my decisions. I think its time to damn the PR people and explain to us in detail what you mean craig. and no, i do not mean rekhan, awen or any other comm mod. Craig or bust. possibly Jack, if he's moved away from CO yet.

Excuse me .. lol you must be having a bad day, the only i said unrelated to this was to respond to an untruthfull post by Athos, i wont get involved with direct flamers, i will do as Awen and Rekhan asks and ignore them.

:mad:

[Inquizitor]

So you have to unlock klingon players for the federation faction. What does this have to do with the klingon faction and why is everyone panicing?

[Eclipse1987]

lol I keep imagining the forums by mid afternoon (on the west coast) as a dark bombed out post appocolyptic city with a red sky and dirty disheveald ppl runnin around screaming about post tutorial klingon play. lol

[Sandmanjw]

Does not sound to me like you get to make any character right at start. More a play along that branches to the character build.

Oh well we will hear something soon i hope to clarify:)

[Tribbler]

This is probably so they don't have to create two separate tutorials. You sit down, finish the tutorial, and shortly thereafter you can start a Klingon and be up and running.

I agree and that would not be terrible.

I would be upset if the BETA testers got to bypass the process.

No-one gets a jump on the TRIBBLER!

[knightofhyrule730]

I agree and that would not be terrible.

I would be upset if the BETA testers got to bypass the process.

No-one gets a jump on the TRIBBLER!

i partly agree and disagree. Yeah, I can see that it wouldnt take long to get a klingon (imo, "hours" is nothing in MMO time) but....i dunno i feel like they dropped the ball.

[Vampir888]

So you have to unlock klingon players for the federation faction. What does this have to do with the klingon faction and why is everyone panicing?

The problem is some think he meant that we need to unlock the possibility to play the klingon faction.

What Zinc said in the interview you can interpret in both ways and as long as there isn't a Dev clearing things up the discussion will go on.

[Eclipse1987]

Anyway, back to topic:

WHAT? Craig. Answers. Now.

I've been a long time supporter of this game, and honestly, I'm beginning to rethink my decisions. I think its time to damn the PR people and explain to us in detail what you mean craig. and no, i do not mean rekhan, awen or any other comm mod. Craig or bust. possibly Jack, if he's moved away from CO yet.

let the fallout begin...

[lordpenquin]

it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

This HAS to be a translation error or something. Cryptic can't be this monumentally stupid, can they?

[knightofhyrule730]

let the fallout begin...

Not so much fallout as getting fed up with their non-answers. yesterdays Dev chat was a complete waste and should have been canceled, and now we get this little gem? no. do not approve. The game is coming out in a few months and they are still playing the PR dance around game. they don't have time for half their community to get ****ed and leave.

for the record, im playing a fed (a surprise i know), so this really does not directly affect me, but it still ****es me off that they are pretty much ignoring the desires of the fans (at least that is how i read the answer).

[Peregrine_Falcon]

What Zinc said in the interview you can interpret in both ways and as long as there isn't a Dev clearing things up the discussion will go on.
I'll try once more from the beginning.

From the interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=2):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich: "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

Eurogamer: "It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?"

Craig Zinkievich: "No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

Craig Zinkievich is specifically talking about making characters in the Klingon Empire. You have to play for several hours to unlock Klingon Empire characters.

[Zeroth]

Here's the thing all of you:

We have no idea what he means specifically by "unlock" and "hours". He could mean that the Klingon tutorial is longer, because people are less familiar with Klingons. He could mean a lot of things.

This has happened before, where Zinc said something in a hurry, and it gets wildly misinterpreted.

What I suggest everyone do, is simply, remain calm, don't panic, don't rage-quit, and wait for an answer/clarification.

[Inquizitor]

it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

This HAS to be a translation error or something. Cryptic can't be this monumentally stupid, can they?

It's not a translation aerror. The interviewer was jerking the topic back and forth.

Look at it again. They were talking about Klingons as the big bad and he mentioned you could play klingons as in the federation. Then he moved on to talk about the klingon faction being in at launch. Then the interviewer goes back to something he mentioned earlier about unlocking klingons. Now I reread all four parts and I have no idea where this guy heard unlockables but the only thing that even make sense is klingons in starfleet. The interviewr then shifts gears again and goes back to talking about Klingon faciton play where Craig says it is nothing like Monster play. It is its own faction.

Locking the klingon faction makes no sense whatsoever while locking klingons in starfleet does make some sense.

Um gee golly gee qizz. Which could it be.

[Sorez]

I'd imagine its purely so avoid having 2 tutorials.. you learn how to play the game at the start with a fed officer, Once you exit the tutorial you can then create chracters of either faction

Thats how i'm reading it anyway

[Zeroth]

Copy and paste from the other topic:


Here's the thing all of you:

We have no idea what he means specifically by "unlock" and "hours". He could mean that the Klingon tutorial is longer, because people are less familiar with Klingons. He could mean a lot of things.

This has happened before, where Zinc said something in a hurry, and it gets wildly misinterpreted.

What I suggest everyone do, is simply, remain calm, don't panic, don't rage-quit, and wait for an answer/clarification.

[Pyrceval]

It's not a translation aerror. The interviewer was jerking the topic back and forth.

Look at it again. They were talking about Klingons as the big bad and he mentioned you could play klingons as in the federation. Then he moved on to talk about the klingon faction being in at launch. Then the interviewer goes back to something he mentioned earlier about unlocking klingons. Now I reread all four parts and I have no idea where this guy heard unlockables but the only thing that even make sense is klingons in starfleet. The interviewr then shifts gears again and goes back to talking about Klingon faciton play where Craig says it is nothing like Monster play. It is its own faction.

Locking the klingon faction makes no sense whatsoever while locking klingons in starfleet does make some sense.

Um gee golly gee qizz. Which could it be.


No, no it doesnt and I would invite you to do the same and look at it again...his meaning is quite clear. However, I still do not think its 'panic worthy', just something to watch and wait for more information on.

[Greenomen]

It could be you are given a default "training" character out of the box for training and introduction to gameplay so you are more educated for when you actually create your character (so you're less likely to whine for a respec later). I know I wish I had something like that in Eve.

I agree. It feels more like Cryptic is forcing folks to go through required training.

[Tribbler]

i partly agree and disagree. Yeah, I can see that it wouldnt take long to get a klingon (imo, "hours" is nothing in MMO time) but....i dunno i feel like they dropped the ball.

I believe you have played MMO's before. Don't the companies always surprise you and give you less than expected and more of what your not looking for?

Answer truthfully :)

[Inquizitor]

No, no it doesnt and I would invite you to do the same and look at it again...his meaning is quite clear. However, I still do not think its 'panic worthy', just something to watch and wait for more information on.

I did read it. Three times and I got it the first time.

[knightofhyrule730]

someone on the LF chatbox said something interesting.

--
Assuming that Klingons are more PVP oriented, it makes sense for them to take part in the federation tutorial to get the basic knowledge down.
--

but. that just shows that they are lazy...and i dont think that just yet.

[lordpenquin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqQsDklQEM

[Pyrceval]

I did read it. Three times and I got it the first time.

Apparently not as he says in very plain language the exact opposit of what you are saying. Again, it's not panick worthy at all just something to look for more info on, but he did say klingon gameply, not Klingons in starfleet being restricted as that makes absolutely no sense at all.

[JPJappic]

Not so much fallout as getting fed up with their non-answers. yesterdays Dev chat was a complete waste and should have been canceled, and now we get this little gem? no. do not approve. The game is coming out in a few months and they are still playing the PR dance around game. they don't have time for half their community to get ****ed and leave.

for the record, im playing a fed (a surprise i know), so this really does not directly affect me, but it still ****es me off that they are pretty much ignoring the desires of the fans (at least that is how i read the answer).

I agree with this post.

Over the past few months, as I mentioned to my girlfriend about an hour ago, I have felt more and more disappointed with some of the gameplay decisions / overall direction that this game has headed in.

I'm not sure that Cryptic has the ability to WOW (amaze) us at this point. Their website is sub-par and not becoming of a game being made in the 21st century. Especially with the level of technology we're at. To this I turn to the SW TOR website. Absolutely spectacular representation of the game.

Add to this the more we learn about the actual game the more gameplay holes, or questions arise.

The Klingons should be available to play out of the box... they should have their own tutorial... they are not the same as Starfleet and as Cryptic has even told us.. their gameplay is completely different.

Uninspired lazyness is what this is... I think I'm going to invest in one of those meters some people have regarding their faith in Cryptic and whatnot.

[Kazzy]

The Klingon's were asking for more information ... just shows you to be careful what you wish for!

Regardless, I like Cryptic's idea of having the warrior Klingon Faction based around PvP, its a move outside the box but firmly within canon.

For those bloodthirsty PvP players you can go and be a Klingon and for those of us who like doing missions and PvE we can be federation. I'm all for it.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Please remember the team are poorly at the moment, we cant expect much while there all stricken with a bad flue, its great there still giving us anything under the circumstances.

I know many of us are excited and things, but when we are stricken with a bad flue we are weaker and doing a little takes a lot. Lets just be patient and wish them a speedy recovery and a bit of rest.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Copy and paste from the other topic:


Here's the thing all of you:

We have no idea what he means specifically by "unlock" and "hours". He could mean that the Klingon tutorial is longer, because people are less familiar with Klingons. He could mean a lot of things.

This has happened before, where Zinc said something in a hurry, and it gets wildly misinterpreted.

What I suggest everyone do, is simply, remain calm, don't panic, don't rage-quit, and wait for an answer/clarification.

Exactly buddy, that is what everyone needs to do at this moment and wish cryptic get well soon as they all have a bad flue at the moment!

[Vampir888]

[B]Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich: "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

[...]

[COLOR="SkyBlue"]Craig Zinkievich is specifically talking about making characters in the Klingon Empire. You have to play for several hours to unlock Klingon Empire characters.

That is your interpretation. I have no proof that says you are wrong so you might be right.


But we don't know about what they talked as Zink mentioned that you have to unlock something. Maybe he meant Klingon gameplay on the federation side, and it would take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player on the Federation side. That's also only an interpretation.


We all read the same words but their meaning is a different thing.

[Tribbler]

That is your interpretation. I have no proof that says you are wrong so you might be right.


But we don't know about what they talked as Zink mentioned that you have to unlock something. Maybe he meant Klingon gameplay on the federation side, and it would take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player on the Federation side. That's also only an interpretation.


We all read the same words but their meaning is a different thing.

Cute siggy BTW :D:

I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything would've been fine. – Susan Ivanova (Babylon 5)

[Eclipse1987]

Not so much fallout as getting fed up with their non-answers. yesterdays Dev chat was a complete waste and should have been canceled, and now we get this little gem? no. do not approve. The game is coming out in a few months and they are still playing the PR dance around game. they don't have time for half their community to get ****ed and leave.

for the record, im playing a fed (a surprise i know), so this really does not directly affect me, but it still ****es me off that they are pretty much ignoring the desires of the fans (at least that is how i read the answer).

I can dig frustration at not getting info and reciving non awnsers.

I cant get behind jumping the gun, like Zeroth said this has happened before about info coming out wrong and being misunderstood.

I'm saying as a community if we are gonna get out our pitch forks and torches to mob lets make damn sure we know what we are mobbing about.

if we get clarification that it was stated incorrectly or misunderstood then no harm no foul and we avoided a pointless forum riot and needless panic .

if however that isn't the case you can damn well be sure I'll gladly add my voice and complain about this not being fair (despite me being a hard nose fed player).

all I'm saying is let's get some clarification first before we start throwing the 'cryptic is screwing us' card.

[topekaguy1988]

Having to wait to play as Klingons is really lame.

[mrjohng]

"Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

One would presume that it is so they don't have to create two tutorials.

[Hagon]

it may be strange, but obviously the devs know what there doing.... and what makes you so sure about that? I can assure you that throughout the history of this genre, and even more so in it's recent history, they more often than not get hung up on concepts that are faulty at their core, and then go down the completely wrong path from there. A lot of the reason why is that they get the very same thought of "obviously we know what we're doing" in their heads and quit listening to the people that play the games (even though some game director and the community rep will always say that they are listening).

[marscentral]

I think the article isn't really open to interpretation, it's pretty clear that it's saying the Klingon faction unlocks after "hours" of playing as the Federation. Now, that may not be what Zinc meant, but it is what he said. Now, we'll have to wait for someone at Cryptic to be about to clarify that position, but for now I'm choosing to comment on what was said, not speculate on whether that's what Zinc really meant.

I personally think it's a bit weak to make the Klingons unlockable and I would recommend they rethink that. I'm not getting the pitchforks out or threatening to boycott the game, but I do think that they're going to disappoint some players who want their main characters to be Klingons if they have to play a Starfleet character that they're not invested in up to a certain rank before they can start.

[Tribbler]

HOURS:

Meaning 2 - Infinity

2 or more hours for a Noob is shorter for a vet.

As in SWG you could bypass this part and land right on Tatooine, but I kinda enjoyed the Tutorial.

Still nothing alarming. I think "wait and see" is needed here.

[MyOwnSling]

I think the article isn't really open to interpretation, it's pretty clear that it's saying the Klingon faction unlocks after "hours" of playing as the Federation.

That's not at all what he said. He said it would take several hours of play before making a klingon character. Everything after that is an assumption.

Edit: There is, however, the part where he says "klingon gameplay" which could be interpreted as everything up to that point is federation. But again, not enough information to tell for sure.

[andeolus]

Why do people assume that he's talking about a tutorial? He clearly states:

"Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player. "

CREATE being the operative word. It doesn't say anything about "it'll be several hours until you actually get to command your ship on the Klingon side of things because you'll need to run through a tutorial, join a house, learn this thing or that, etc" it CLEARLY states CREATING the Klingon player.

Very strange. I'm thinking the game is on target for an early 2010 launch and in order to cut back, they create one tutrotial on the Federation side so you can get your feet wet, then once that's done you can unlock the Klingon side and just jump right in. Not the best idea I've ever heard, but also not the worst.

[mrjohng]

If Craig had said, "We only created one tutorial, so everyone has to go through the Starfleet tutorial so they can learn how to play the game, and then they can create a Klingon character." I'd have been totally and completely ok with that.

But he said, "...it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

I'm not sure that someone this whiny should ever be able to play a klingon...

However, that aside, the two statements are likely semantically identical. It seems very likely that there is a single fed-based tutorial that everyone must play to learn the controls and interface. This tutorial probably takes an hour or two to complete. The reason for doing this is almost certainly so that Cryptic doesn't have to make multiple tutorials.

It sounds like it may be an extended tutorial but it doesn't make sense to me, especially if its many hours into the game, that's way too long for a tutorial. You're going to have to relearn the whole gameplay anyways if you go to Klingon since he also said the gameplay would be very different and PVP focused, and not story driven.

Have you actually played an MMO before? It takes a couple of hours to complete all the content in the WoW starter zones. It takes around an hour to complete the tutorial in Champions Online the first time you go through it. An hour or so for an MMO tutorial is completely normal.

Furthermore, you're not going to have to relearn much of anything to play a klingon. The game play may be different (unlikely), but the interface and controls will all be very similar, probably with just a few cosmetic changes to make them more "klingony".

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Its pretty amusing how people will defend something like this...as long as it doesnt apply to them. Can you even imagine the outcry there would be if the tables were turned and you had to start as a Klingon to unlock the Fed faction? I can, and it would be from the very people who are defending this, simply because it doesnt affect their gameplay :rolleyes:

[lordpenquin]

That would be like having to create an alliance character for the first 10 levels or so before you could play horde. I can't wrap my head around it. I could understand having one tutorial zone to save time and money, but why force us to create a player to do the tutorial only to have us delete it later when we make a klingon? And what happens to all the items, skills, and xp you earn during the tutorial? How does that get transfered to the klingon?

[Zeroth]

Its pretty amusing how people will defend something like this...as long as it doesnt apply to them. Can you even imagine the outcry there would be if the tables were turned and you had to start as a Klingon to unlock the Fed faction? I can, and it would be from the very people who are defending this, simply because it doesnt affect their gameplay :rolleyes:

Not really Nagus. The same people would overreact, and the same people would say calm down(like me). Trying to cast everyone that says calm down in a negative light is really a nearly-trollish action. FYI, I am both Fed and Klingon.

[Shatterhand]

Its pretty amusing how people will defend something like this...as long as it doesnt apply to them. Can you even imagine the outcry there would be if the tables were turned and you had to start as a Klingon to unlock the Fed faction? I can, and it would be from the very people who are defending this, simply because it doesnt affect their gameplay :rolleyes:

So, asking people to hold back the potential flaming and the ridiculous "Can't play Klingons right away?!? F*CK CRYPTIC THIS GAME BLOWS!!!11!!" comments until the statement is more clearly defined is defending this course of action? Ooookay then.

Personally, I don't think it's okay either way. They said two factions were to be available at launch: Federation and Klingon. If you have to play one tutorial in Fed mode in order to get to the Klingon part of the gameplay, fine...then SAY THAT, not some...ahem...CRYPTIC statement that alludes to something that's going to more intensely aggravate the already perturbed Klingon players who are shaking fists of rage over the lack of Klingon information.

Sick or not, lousy interviewer or otherwise, Cryptic's staff need to be careful about what is said to the press, because their community members are going to be forced to take the comments at face value until they show up and spell it out for us.

[Exist-nl-]

That would be like having to create an alliance character for the first 10 levels or so before you could play horde. I can't wrap my head around it. I could understand having one tutorial zone to save time and money, but why force us to create a player to do the tutorial only to have us delete it later when we make a klingon? And what happens to all the items, skills, and xp you earn during the tutorial? How does that get transfered to the klingon?

That is true but the fact is that the interview didn't say what kind of gameplay(tutorial) we will have before the unlock, So I'm hoping that will get clarified ASAP.

[indigowhale345]

Have you actually played an MMO before? It takes a couple of hours to complete all the content in the WoW starter zones. It takes around an hour to complete the tutorial in Champions Online the first time you go through it. An hour or so for an MMO tutorial is completely normal.

Furthermore, you're not going to have to relearn much of anything to play a klingon. The game play may be different (unlikely), but the interface and controls will all be very similar, probably with just a few cosmetic changes to make them more "klingony".


I've played quite a few MMOs, and have never spent several hours inside a tutorial, ever. One hour is not several. Two hours is not several. I read several as 4+ hours, because that's what several means when most people use it.

He also didn't say "after the tutorial, you can go make a Klingon." Wouldn't that have been much better to say if that were the case, even if the tutorial actually took an unprecedented 'several' hours? I'm not trying to split hairs or call out the worst case, I'm reading it as it was written.

Several hours is too long for a reasonable tutorial. People seemed to be managing the PAX demo combat just fine after a few minutes with a little coaching. People will get antsy and want to leave and just go explore space or make a Klingon or whatever. But as I already said it could well be an extended tutorial, I just find it real unlikely.

But as for Klingons, yes I do think there is a significant amount of relearning to do. Their ships will be different from Federation ships. Cloaking, mostly forward facing weapons, different classifications entirely. They won't have science ships. Will they even have science officers?

And then there is the gameplay. If in the Federation game you're ferrying tacos and doing episodic missions and exploration, but you do none of that in the Klingon game, or if none of it counts toward advancing, that's a huge difference. No it shouldn't take several hours to teach it, but yes you most likely do need a separate primer on how to play as a Klingon.

[blujester]

Hmm on the cover of my guide it says "Don't Panic" how 'bout yours?


Let's assume that Zinc was being honest and not misunderstood in his statement. What would this mean.

Consider that in Cannon there are very few Klingon ships to choose from. Compound that with Klingon Defense not being particularly interested in diplomacy and exploration overall. Factor in the reality that most MMO's have a minimum level allowed for PVP . What does this all point to?

Theory: You start out as a Fed officer and progress through the tutorial learning basic ship functions and mechanics as well as ground based operations and rudimentary crafting and other minutia untill you have aquired enough points to advance to Lt Commander. At which time you have a substantial amount of experience in the fundamentals of game play and BING you unlock the KDF. In the KDF you start off as a Lt Commander thus avoiding the need for a starter class of ship or a Klingon tutorial and you are from day one minimum PVP rank.

Now for some this may seem like a weak compromise and for some an out and out ripoff. But in the end you still get your BOP and your blood whine and all it takes a little time learning the game first.


Oh the horrors.




Bj

[Neligahn]

Its pretty amusing how people will defend something like this...as long as it doesnt apply to them. Can you even imagine the outcry there would be if the tables were turned and you had to start as a Klingon to unlock the Fed faction? I can, and it would be from the very people who are defending this, simply because it doesnt affect their gameplay :rolleyes:

Lol, you is a silly peoples.

Please do not assume what people would and wouldn't do based on what you think would happen.

If I had to play an hour long Klingon Tutorial before I could fly my Miranda, that's fine, as long as I can fly that Miranda.

My main guess is that the main Fed tutorial is the more in-depth one going into the basics of flying and ground combat. I'm sure there's a Klingon tutorial too, but it goes into more detail about House vs House and the other nuances to Klingon lifestyle.

[scottage00]

The tutorial wont take hours but there's a lot to learn that isn't in the tutorial. They want to give us stuff slowly so we can get used to it. I'm pretty sure that we only get our first bridge officer after an hour and a half or something, and once that happens we'll probably be able to make a klingon character who starts out with a bridge officer or even a full crew of three. I'm sure if that was the case people shouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

What I am worried about is that klingons wont have any story missions at all and once you get your D7 or BoP instead of flying off to fight the cowardly cardassians we'll be asked what PvP zone we want to visit first.

[mrjohng]

I've played quite a few MMOs, and have never spent several hours inside a tutorial, ever. One hour is not several. Two hours is not several. I read several as 4+ hours, because that's what several means when most people use it.

Technically, anything more than one can be referred to as several. Whether he meant one or two, or 4+ is not clear.


He also didn't say "after the tutorial, you can go make a Klingon." Wouldn't that have been much better to say if that were the case, even if the tutorial actually took an unprecedented 'several' hours? I'm not trying to split hairs or call out the worst case, I'm reading it as it was written.

He also didn't say that you couldn't make a klingon after the tutorial. And tutorials that take an hour or two are far from "unprecedented" in MMOs.

Several hours is too long for a reasonable tutorial. People seemed to be managing the PAX demo combat just fine after a few minutes with a little coaching. People will get antsy and want to leave and just go explore space or make a Klingon or whatever. But as I already said it could well be an extended tutorial, I just find it real unlikely.

Hmm... They need to teach you about character stats and abilities, personal gear, the quest system, ground combat, space combat, starship stats, bridge officiers, away parties, ship equipment, and probably a bunch of other stuff too. It would not surprise me even slightly if that took two hours or so.


But as for Klingons, yes I do think there is a significant amount of relearning to do. Their ships will be different from Federation ships. Cloaking, mostly forward facing weapons, different classifications entirely. They won't have science ships. Will they even have science officers?

So, they have different categories of bridge officers with (perhaps) slightly different abilities from fed bridge officers, but are still used in basically the same ways. The rest is just different tactics, and different abilities. The role of bridge officers won't change. The interface won't change, except maybe cosmetically. Seriously, the klingon game is going to about as different from the fed game as Horde is from Alliance in WoW. Maybe not even that much.


And then there is the gameplay. If in the Federation game you're ferrying tacos and doing episodic missions and exploration, but you do none of that in the Klingon game, or if none of it counts toward advancing, that's a huge difference. No it shouldn't take several hours to teach it, but yes you most likely do need a separate primer on how to play as a Klingon.

You are likely correct that there will be a short klingon tutorial after the generic fed tutorial, to explain the differences involved in playing a klingon.

[Lictalon]

Hmm on the cover of my guide it says "Don't Panic" how 'bout yours?


Let's assume that Zinc was being honest and not misunderstood in his statement. What would this mean.

Consider that in Cannon there are very few Klingon ships to choose from. Compound that with Klingon Defense not being particularly interested in diplomacy and exploration overall. Factor in the reality that most MMO's have a minimum level allowed for PVP . What does this all point to?

Theory: You start out as a Fed officer and progress through the tutorial learning basic ship functions and mechanics as well as ground based operations and rudimentary crafting and other minutia untill you have aquired enough points to advance to Lt Commander. At which time you have a substantial amount of experience in the fundamentals of game play and BING you unlock the KDF. In the KDF you start off as a Lt Commander thus avoiding the need for a starter class of ship or a Klingon tutorial and you are from day one minimum PVP rank.

Now for some this may seem like a weak compromise and for some an out and out ripoff. But in the end you still get your BOP and your blood whine and all it takes a little time learning the game first.

Oh the horrors.
Bj

The quotes from the interview also lead me to believe its a matter of funneling everyone through a single starter area. You pick your Klingon, but they start in a single tutorial. Either by simple game mechanic (ie finish the tutorial and KDF just unlocks allowing you to start as LT. Commander as Jack said) or tied in through the storyline (your Fed Klingon decides to fight for the homeworld instead of the Feds or something), and either way you end up with the KDF.

Honest question: Would that be so bad? *(Personally I'm indifferent)

Between the two threads Im sure we will get their attention and get an answer, but its not even 9am here on the west coast. Let them have their caffine, and then we shall see what they say about the statements in the interview.... That is assuming the Plague hasn't wiped Cryptic out entirely :D

[Phunix]

I'm getting a bit worried I won't be able to create a Klingon explorer.
Surely Klingons want to expand their borders, seek out allies and technologies and most if not all the things Feds want through exploration?

[NeoWolf]

Unlockable or not, I just hope its possible to have an entirely PVE Klingon experience as I was looking forward to having a Klingon alt.

They way Zinc made it sound it would be predominantly PVP based only for Klingons :(

I hope that isnt the case

[andeolus]

I'm getting a bit worried I won't be able to create a Klingon explorer.
Surely Klingons want to expand their borders, seek out allies and technologies and most if not all the things Feds want through exploration?

That's what I'm worried about too. I could easily see how the Klingons on focused mostly on battle and less on exploration or diplomacy. Doesn't bode well for the Orions or the Gorn. Which again brings me to the point that you should be able to create any race on either side. If I wanted to make an Orion scientist, why do I have to be exclusively Klingon, especially if the Klingon experience isn't geared for it?

[marscentral]

That's not at all what he said. He said it would take several hours of play before making a klingon character. Everything after that is an assumption.

Edit: There is, however, the part where he says "klingon gameplay" which could be interpreted as everything up to that point is federation. But again, not enough information to tell for sure.

It's only logical to assume he's talking about Klingons as a faction. If you create a Klingon as a Federation captain, there is no real difference in gameplay terms then if you had created an Andorian or Vulcan. Given the ability to create any race you want at the beginning, it seems unlikely that they would lock Klingons for some reason when you could just make one in the species creator.


But as for Klingons, yes I do think there is a significant amount of relearning to do. Their ships will be different from Federation ships. Cloaking, mostly forward facing weapons, different classifications entirely. They won't have science ships. Will they even have science officers?

And then there is the gameplay. If in the Federation game you're ferrying tacos and doing episodic missions and exploration, but you do none of that in the Klingon game, or if none of it counts toward advancing, that's a huge difference. No it shouldn't take several hours to teach it, but yes you most likely do need a separate primer on how to play as a Klingon.

Firstly, Klingons will have science officers. I asked about this a while back and Klingon officers are either science, engineering or tactical like their Starfleet counterparts. Secondly, I agree. Even if Klingon gameplay was more or less the same, they should just do the work and put in a tutorial and low level content for the Klingons to cut their teeth on. If it is as different as they claim, then they'll need to do that anyway, so why not just let people play as Klingons from the start?

[slingbladez]

it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player
and
The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP

People are most upset over those tidbits. Not every Klingon is interested in PVP and We want to start out playing Klingons and not be forced to play federation tutorial for a few hours

[Kriss]

That's what I'm worried about too. I could easily see how the Klingons on focused mostly on battle and less on exploration or diplomacy. Doesn't bode well for the Orions or the Gorn. Which again brings me to the point that you should be able to create any race on either side. If I wanted to make an Orion scientist, why do I have to be exclusively Klingon, especially if the Klingon experience isn't geared for it?

I don't think you will have to worry much. I still believe the Klingons will be able to explore and conquer worlds or at least interact with them like the Feds. The Klingon Empire didn't get to be so big just on its own merit. We had to kill some worlds for that to happen! :cool:

The Klingons just won't have as much PvE as the Feds will. But we will still have it though.

[Bopque]

There's no panic here, nor am I angry or flaming or trolling. I'm calmly discussing this developer interview.

I'm also not rumor mongering.

From the interview with Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/star-trek-online-interview_9?page=2):

Eurogamer: "You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?"

Craig Zinkievich: "The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player."

Eurogamer: "It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?"

Craig Zinkievich: "No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

So he's very obviously not talking about Klingon characters within the Federation. He's very obviously talking about Klingon characters in the Klingon Empire.

In short I am not rumor mongering, I am repeating Craig's own words. You will have to play a Starfleet character for hours before you can even create a character in the Klingon Empire.
He doesnt say anything about starting off as either Fed or Klingon ill bet its a general tutorial for both and either side will unlock at certain points in the tutorial :D

[Pyrceval]

He doesnt say anything about starting off as either Fed or Klingon ill bet its a general tutorial for both and either side will unlock at certain points in the tutorial :D

K...so how does one enter the game and play the tutorial without first having created a character? Doesnt work that way...and by default if one cannot create a klingon at first to play, then that only leaves Feds.

[johnflenaly]

Eurogamer: You mentioned unlock earlier - are the Klingons going to be available from the start?

Craig Zinkievich: The Klingon gameplay will unlock, but not deep in the game - it will take several hours to unlock the ability to create a Klingon player.

Eurogamer: It sounds like Monster Play from Lord of the Rings Online, which unlocks at 10 and provides a 'nasty' faction for the good guys to fight in PvP - at the appropriate levels. Is that what you're doing?

Craig Zinkievich: No, we'll be offering full-on character advancement: you will create a Klingon player, you will have his ship, he will level up. The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play.


It seems to say you have to unlock the ability to play a klingon character. Possibly some sort of extended totorial who know. The second question craig seems to clarify, saying its not like monster play were your character is just a "Evil" mirrior of your regular character, but ONCE you unlock a klingon the're a completly diffrent character.

[Bopque]

K...so how does one enter the game and play the tutorial without first having created a character? Doesnt work that way...and by default if one cannot create a klingon at first to play, then that only leaves Feds.

Ahh thats the beauty off it it willl be totally fantastic and new:D:D Dont get your nickers ina bunch calm calm:D

[Pyrceval]

Ahh thats the beauty off it it willl be totally fantastic and new:D:D Dont get your nickers ina bunch calm calm:D


No bunching nickers, but there is no way to play the tutorial in the game without a character. It's just simple like that.


Maybe we will get a tribble character at first?? :eek:

[lordpenquin]

How can you be Klingon and NOT be interested in PvP? I mean... Klingons fight anyone NOT Klingon and they fight eachother! It's what they do. You ever hear "Let loose the dogs of war?" Those dogs would be Klingons...

[Piotrek]

Another showing of how Epic failure cryptic is with this game IP. As i said in another thread Cryptic has no experience making games that don't revolve around the same idea. Thats why they stick to one sided game development when it comes to the character aspects.

Man i would not mind seeing this game delayed two more years if i could get a developer that knows what they are doing with the IP. Currently because of their fast development of this game it feels nothing more then a cut and past of CO but in space.

[Pyrceval]

P. Currently because of their fast development of this game it feels nothing more then a cut and past of CO but in space.


How would you know what it feels like? Have you played it?

The thing is you can't say such generalities without first hand esperience. I too have plenty of well founded concerns about Cryptic, given the past games (and I have played both) and some of the decisions they made there. However, judgement is reserved until I can get my hands on the actual product and see it, and really feel how it works.

[Loekii]

Copy and paste from the other topic:


Here's the thing all of you:

We have no idea what he means specifically by "unlock" and "hours". He could mean that the Klingon tutorial is longer, because people are less familiar with Klingons. He could mean a lot of things.

This has happened before, where Zinc said something in a hurry, and it gets wildly misinterpreted.

What I suggest everyone do, is simply, remain calm, don't panic, don't rage-quit, and wait for an answer/clarification.


That is an extremely liberal interpretation of what was said, and I disagree that is the meaning -- it would not even be worth mentioning in the interview it was simply that. They would have simply said something like "the Klingon Tutorial takes longer than the Feds."

No, I believe it is pretty clear what has been said:

All Players can only start playing the game as Federation Players.
All Players' first few hours of play are as a FED TOON, on the Fed faction.
Only after you play that Fed Content, may you then delete that toon and reroll as a KDF faction player.
You CANNOT start and only play KDF. You MUST play FED first.


It would be like playing WoW, and not being able to create a Horde Toon, until after you have reached Level 10 as an Alliance Toon. :mad:

[Koba]

I think it makes perfect sense to have Kilignons unlocked later. If they are heavily driven on PvP, then they want you to know how to play the game before you are a Klignon. That is why you have to play the Feds for awhile.

With that being said, it makes perfect sense again. Klignon is a war race, who are at war with the Federation. What PvE do you want? It makes sense that they would be solely driven towards PvP battle. That is what Klignons do best... fight!

All skill points, ships, and BOs will be earned through PvP experience I imagine.

[andeolus]

That is an extremely liberal interpretation of what was said, and I disagree that is the meaning -- it would not even be worth mentioning in the interview it was simply that. They would have simply said something like "the Klingon Tutorial takes longer than the Feds."

No, I believe it is pretty clear what has been said:

All Players can only start playing the game as Federation Players.
All Players' first few hours of play are as a FED TOON, on the Fed faction.
Only after you play that Fed Content, may you then delete that toon and reroll as a KDF faction player.


It would be like playing WoW, and not being able to create a Horde Toon, until after you have reached Level 10 as an Alliance Toon. :mad:



And worse, once you unlocked your Horde character, you're biggest focus was PvP and the game was designed differently for you.

[Bopque]

No bunching nickers, but there is no way to play the tutorial in the game without a character. It's just simple like that.


Maybe we will get a tribble character at first?? :eek:

What you probably want is a total imersive tutorial and iit wont be, maybe a littlie with some nice live action screenies but mostly just text and all. And if it is iam ok with that !!:D

[Exist-nl-]

And worse, once you unlocked your Horde character, you're biggest focus was PvP and the game was designed differently for you.

T hats is what it sounds like, hopefully they will prove us wrong

[Piotrek]

How would you know what it feels like? Have you played it?

The thing is you can't say such generalities without first hand esperience. I too have plenty of well founded concerns about Cryptic, given the past games (and I have played both) and some of the decisions they made there. However, judgement is reserved until I can get my hands on the actual product and see it, and really feel how it works.

No i have not played it, but i seen the demo and the game fully at work in most situations and its a very similar setup to CO. So from those items alone i can make a very decent generalized statement.

As for the guy said that it makes sense to unlock them later cause your just learning the game. That sounds like a very WOW type of player to me. It means your counting on players being to simple to figure out a game, well some people are really quick at figuring out aspects of game they don't have to be hand holded all the way through the process.

[Bopque]

Another showing of how Epic failure cryptic is with this game IP. As i said in another thread Cryptic has no experience making games that don't revolve around the same idea. Thats why they stick to one sided game development when it comes to the character aspects.

Man i would not mind seeing this game delayed two more years if i could get a developer that knows what they are doing with the IP. Currently because of their fast development of this game it feels nothing more then a cut and past of CO but in space.

Cmon man ,you havent even played the game yet how can you judge it at all.:( I wouldnt judge tha game by what littlle info we get;)

[Piotrek]

Cmon man ,you havent even played the game yet how can you judge it at all.:( I wouldnt judge tha game by what littlle info we get;)

Read my above statement. Also from past track record their other games are not that good too and i played all of them. So i dont have much fate in this developer.

[Loekii]

And worse, once you unlocked your Horde character, you're biggest focus was PvP and the game was designed differently for you.

Well in a sense, the Horde experience is different than the Alliance experience.

At launch, there were no Horde Paladins nor Alliance Shamans. The story themes for each side were different.

Now while do not see the comments about having to 'unlock the KDF faction after a few hours' to be ambigious, I do think that there is a lot of room in the comments about how FEDS and KDF content will be different. It could be the that KDF content is all PVP centric to the point that PvErs hate it, or it could simply mean that the KDF content has more PvP opportunties (ie House Wars for example), but still provides a rich PvE game as well.

[Koba]

No i have not played it, but i seen the demo and the game fully at work in most situations and its a very similar setup to CO. So from those items alone i can make a very decent generalized statement.

As for the guy said that it makes sense to unlock them later cause your just learning the game. That sounds like a very WOW type of player to me. It means your counting on players being to simple to figure out a game, well some people are really quick at figuring out aspects of game they don't have to be hand holded all the way through the process.


I imagine it is hand holding for new players. They want it to appeal to everyone. For gamers who figure things out quickly (which I imagine this will not be difficult at all), then perhaps there is a storyline that connects with the Klignons. Possibly, "several hours" into the game is the breakdown of the Khittomer Accords, and when war is finalized, you can chose to be a Klignon.

I have no doubt it is for hand holding. They do not want people to join an all PvP side and not know what to do exactly. If you do not need that, then I suppose you will just have to suffer through the Federation side until you get to that point.

Is it really that bad? The game for the Federation looks to be amazing. Are you really suffering? It is only "several hours."

[Tribbler]

MOUNTAINS

molehills

No need to make one into the other :D

[Zoberraz]

Whoa. Guys, many of you are crying over spilled milk.

So what if you have to play a couple of hours (read: ~2 from conjecture) as a Federation character to follow up on the basic tutorials? You only have to do it once, on the very first time you play the game, and then you can just go and play your Klingon characters for hundred of hours. you don't have to do it again - they are unlocked so you can create as many as possible without needing to bother with the Federation side ever again if that's how you like it.

It's a time investment, a small one, likely part of the whole learning process. Klingons probably have thier own distinctive tutorials as well in order to cover the elements the Federation tutorials have not covered (Cloak, launching fightercraft, etc...). To me this says that playing a Klingon warrior in itself might be slightly more complex than a Federation one, meaning that they want you to have well grounded initial knowledge of game basics before going for more advanced stuff.

And, there is of course the advantage of not having repeat tutorials for the Klingon characters.

I think there's a lot of negativism here based on what many feel they cannot have, and not enough consideration for what they actually have. Klingons are playable. Since Klingons don't have a framework as solid as the Federation regarding ship tiers, Cryptic is likely devoting a lot of resources fleshing them out so that they can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Federation (I refer to the limited number of Klingon ships, which are being expanded upon).

The speedbump to get to play the said Klingons is not something that deserves this amount of harsh criticism. Not to mention that if you are going to be involved in PvP that it is liekly going to be quite valuable to be able to see the other side of the chessboard briefly. As General Chang once said: "Know thy enemy, and the battle is yours."

[Pyrceval]

MOUNTAINS

molehills

No need to make one into the other :D


Indeed...but the question is...which is which in this case? :p

[masonburrell]

Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! simply no. i hate this kinda thing. in SWG it was stupid hard to get a jedi and every 1 want to be a jedi. it turned off alot of players. i can under stand doing this if lets say your trying to be come a borg or something like that but not the MAJOR fraction. simply don't do it!

[Koba]

Well in a sense, the Horde experience is different than the Alliance experience.

At launch, there were no Horde Paladins nor Alliance Shamans. The story themes for each side were different.

Now while do not see the comments about having to 'unlock the KDF faction after a few hours' to be ambigious, I do think that there is a lot of room in the comments about how FEDS and KDF content will be different. It could be the that KDF content is all PVP centric to the point that PvErs hate it, or it could simply mean that the KDF content has more PvP opportunties (ie House Wars for example), but still provides a rich PvE game as well.


I think it means they will have a shallow PvE experience, but a rich PvP one. Greater than the Federation. As I stated on another thread, this makes sense.

[Sawatz]

Hummm I had no intention on even creating a Federation player... I guess I will be now. The more I read about this game the Lighter on content it seems. Although I do like the direction of the klingons it does really seem like a cop out just so they can get the game done on time. Unless they have some really good Crafting system, exploration will lose interest really fast when all you do is go from system to system scaning and if there is nothing really to do in those systems it's going to get dull really fast.

[Piotrek]

Whoa. Guys, many of you are crying over spilled milk.

So what if you have to play a couple of hours (read: ~2 from conjecture) as a Federation character to follow up on the basic tutorials? You only have to do it once, on the very first time you play the game, and then you can just go and play your Klingon characters for hundred of hours. you don't have to do it again - they are unlocked so you can create as many as possible without needing to bother with the Federation side ever again if that's how you like it.

It's a time investment, a small one, likely part of the whole learning process. Klingons probably have thier own distinctive tutorials as well in order to cover the elements the Federation tutorials have not covered (Cloak, launching fightercraft, etc...). To me this says that playing a Klingon warrior in itself might be slightly more complex than a Federation one, meaning that they want you to have well grounded initial knowledge of game basics before going for more advanced stuff.

And, there is of course the advantage of not having repeat tutorials for the Klingon characters.

I think there's a lot of negativism here based on what many feel they cannot have, and not enough consideration for what they actually have. Klingons are playable. Since Klingons don't have a framework as solid as the Federation regarding ship tiers, Cryptic is likely devoting a lot of resources fleshing them out so that they can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Federation (I refer to the limited number of Klingon ships, which are being expanded upon).

The speedbump to get to play the said Klingons is not something that deserves this amount of harsh criticism. Not to mention that if you are going to be involved in PvP that it is liekly going to be quite valuable to be able to see the other side of the chessboard briefly. As General Chang once said: "Know thy enemy, and the battle is yours."''

Your 4th paragraph is what the negativity is about, i myself am going to be a starfleet player. But i know a few who are going to be Klingon's. That 4th paragraph is what the problem is, too much focus on the fed side of the board when this should be a equal opportunity game it is a Fed/Klingon game from the start. It just makes the Klingon players feel like second hand citizens.

[Koba]

Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! simply no. i hate this kinda thing. in SWG it was stupid hard to get a jedi and every 1 want to be a jedi. it turned off alot of players. i can under stand doing this if lets say your trying to be come a borg or something like that but not the MAJOR fraction. simply don't do it!

They never said unlocking Klignons was difficult. I think they unlock whether you want them to or not. I think comparing it getting a Jedi in the original SWG is extreme.

They even said that they do no unlock "deep" into the game, but much sooner.

[Bopque]

Whoa. Guys, many of you are crying over spilled milk.

So what if you have to play a couple of hours (read: ~2 from conjecture) as a Federation character to follow up on the basic tutorials? You only have to do it once, on the very first time you play the game, and then you can just go and play your Klingon characters for hundred of hours. you don't have to do it again - they are unlocked so you can create as many as possible without needing to bother with the Federation side ever again if that's how you like it.

It's a time investment, a small one, likely part of the whole learning process. Klingons probably have thier own distinctive tutorials as well in order to cover the elements the Federation tutorials have not covered (Cloak, launching fightercraft, etc...). To me this says that playing a Klingon warrior in itself might be slightly more complex than a Federation one, meaning that they want you to have well grounded initial knowledge of game basics before going for more advanced stuff.

And, there is of course the advantage of not having repeat tutorials for the Klingon characters.

I think there's a lot of negativism here based on what many feel they cannot have, and not enough consideration for what they actually have. Klingons are playable. Since Klingons don't have a framework as solid as the Federation regarding ship tiers, Cryptic is likely devoting a lot of resources fleshing them out so that they can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Federation (I refer to the limited number of Klingon ships, which are being expanded upon).

The speedbump to get to play the said Klingons is not something that deserves this amount of harsh criticism. Not to mention that if you are going to be involved in PvP that it is liekly going to be quite valuable to be able to see the other side of the chessboard briefly. As General Chang once said: "Know thy enemy, and the battle is yours."

I agree with you

[Loekii]

Perhaps this is just one of their Micro-Transaction moves.

For $10, you can 'puchase a key to unlock the Klingons'.

[Levry]

The collective heart stopping I could hear way out in cyber space.....lol

[Vaul]

I have been waiting for an online Star TRek MMO for a very very long time now. I would say at since I first played UO. I am sure I can wait a few more hours before I get to roll my Klingon character.

Not being able to play my Klingon within the KDF from the very beginning is nothing compared to not being able to play a Star Trek MMO at all.

I am just thrilled to be able to play a Star Trek MMO and I can wait a few extra hours and just enjoy the game, no matter what faction I play for a few hours.

Once the Klingon Character is unlocked and created, I will be so freaking happy that I will have forgotten the wait I had before playing in the KDF.

Let loose the dogs of war.

[blujester]

My guess, like others before, is that the basic tutorial is Fed side and covers basic ship and ground combat. Then you leave the tutorial proper but still have basic training missions to teach you crafting, exploration, ship mods, BO skills, your skills, kits and kit building/crafting. Then , when you have invested enough skill points to level up to T1 ships, you are given the option of creating a KDF character at Lt Commander level with T0 points to assign and a T1 ship to choose as well as your first 3-4 BO's to build. There would be no reason to delete the Fed character unless you just wanted to. You will have more than one Character slot.

As for KDF PVE content I doubt it is as neglected as some fear but I would also not be surprised if it was very much more combat oriented and focused than the Fed side content. Quite simply the Klingons are warriors to the bone and spending hours cataloging anomaly's is not a very honorable way to spend their time. Hunting down Gorn insurgents or conquering a resource rich planet will be more their style.



Bj

[Bopque]

''

Your 4th paragraph is what the negativity is about, i myself am going to be a starfleet player. But i know a few who are going to be Klingon's. That 4th paragraph is what the problem is, too much focus on the fed side of the board when this should be a equal opportunity game it is a Fed/Klingon game from the start. It just makes the Klingon players feel like second hand citizens.

I would wait untill more info is brought up with the klingons before i started my concerns:cool:

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Perhaps this is just one of their Micro-Transaction moves.

For $10, you can 'puchase a key to unlock the Klingons'.
I have to admit, that would be kinda funny.

[Loekii]

The speedbump to get to play the said Klingons is not something that deserves this amount of harsh criticism. Not to mention that if you are going to be involved in PvP that it is liekly going to be quite valuable to be able to see the other side of the chessboard briefly. As General Chang once said: "Know thy enemy, and the battle is yours."

There is no reason to put in the speed bump - atleast on the players end. That is what people are unhappy with.

Even World of Warcraft - a super easy game, that was a first time MMO for Millions of players, does not do such hand-holding. You can create a Horde toon the first time you log in, and you can play on a PVP server immediately.

What I really fear is what this does for Cryptic. Are they planning to just present sub-par content for the KDF, to save money and resources? If the KDF is just a 'Side-Game', they should come out and say so.

[Ravas]

My guess, like others before, is that the basic tutorial is Fed side and covers basic ship and ground combat. Then you leave the tutorial proper but still have basic training missions to teach you crafting, exploration, ship mods, BO skills, your skills, kits and kit building/crafting. Then , when you have invested enough skill points to level up to T1 ships, you are given the option of creating a KDF character at Lt Commander level with T0 points to assign and a T1 ship to choose as well as your first 3-4 BO's to build. There would be no reason to delete the Fed character unless you just wanted to. You will have more than one Character slot.

Bj

I have not seen a tutorial that would last SEVERAL hours. Seriously, come on!

[Lictalon]

What I really fear is what this does for Cryptic. Are they planning to just present sub-par content for the KDF, to save money and resources? If the KDF is just a 'Side-Game', they should come out and say so.



Not at launch :p

[Vorador]

This is a really bad idea. First of all there will already be a population imbalance.This will make it even larger.

[Elboulevardo]

i dont think there is really any cause for concern...perhaps the unlock part is just that you go through a general tutorial using the federation side, then once that part is done, you can create a klingon character and go through the klingon equiv.

i think its a neat idea...the comment about warcraft i disagree with because both factions were virtually IDENTICAL so whether you start as horde or ally, its no difference in the end

Zinc said that Klingon play will be considerably different, so perhaps they find the requirement of touching the federation side as mandatory before touching the klingon side is due to this drastic difference.

i can understand though, for those who want to jump into klingon right away, it a shame that they have to burn a couple hours before getting to play the content of their choosing...

[Varrangian]

What I really fear is what this does for Cryptic. Are they planning to just present sub-par content for the KDF, to save money and resources? If the KDF is just a 'Side-Game', they should come out and say so.


Tamgros seems to believe this is a CBS thing, he said something about them putting a great deal of pressure on Cryptic to have the game out this year.

[Tribbler]

Indeed...but the question is...which is which in this case? :p

This is not a mountain size issue really.

Everyone should go through a tutorial whether its all Klingon or all Federation it really doesn't matter.

I am sure thats all you have to do is go through several hours of a tour through each tutorial and when its all over, you land on your factional planet and begin your game.

Sounds like this is what is referenced, but we don't know for sure, and I for one do not want to be pointed out as a Chicken Little.

Relax everyone, check your pulses, count to ten.

Now

Roll em :D

[Lt.Renak]

sry but that is crap. I am PvE player and want to play PvE with my Klingon. Why are Klingons PvP mostly?

Finally Cryptic looses a lot of Klingon Players, I think

[andeolus]

Tamgros seems to believe this is a CBS thing, he said something about them putting a great deal of pressure on Cryptic to have the game out this year.

I absolutely believe that too. After the PE debacle and the success of WoW practically being a license to print money, I imagine CBS wants to get in on that action as quickly as possible.

Look on the bright side, no matter how botched the Klingon faction is, it'll make for a much smoother launch for the Romulans. If that's your thing.

[Exist-nl-]

But what is holding them back from creating a Klingon tutorial ?
It is strange to say "The klingons faction is going to be realy unique and different" and then just forget the tutorial part for them.
Is it that hard to create a Klingon tutorial that has a klingon feel to it ?

[Rivaris]

i loved all that crypitc put in untill now this is just there first epic failure and its a big 1.

so now i have to spend a few hours or a few weeks if i cant play that much on a smelly federation char just to be able to start all over again as a klingon??

this is 1 of the worst ideas what ever happend to we want the game to be fun?
players rolling klingon did so for a reason my main 1 is that i dont want to touch a fed char with a 30foot pole and now im forced to look and play 1 for a few hours?

i think there just trying to cut corners to make the release date set my atari seeing if you teach people the basic stuff as a fed char you dont have to put that in on the klingonside.

no it wont be a gamekiller for me i will still get the game i will just have to get me the brothers jack and jonny to pull me true this federation madness at launch.

also this will probarly mean beta will be 95% federation only with klingons beeing totaly bugged on release.

[Pyrceval]

sry that is the last bull sh it. I am PvE player and want to play PvE with my Klingon. Why are Klingons PvP mostly?

Finally Cryptic looses a lot of Klingon Players, I think

You might wanna edit that right quick, the forum rules state that getting around the swear filter is against the rules.

[mrjohng]

But what is holding them back from creating a Klingon tutorial ?

Time? Money? Dislike of redundancy? They want to make forum whiners freak out?

Take your pick.

[Loekii]

But what is holding them back from creating a Klingon tutorial ?
It is strange to say "The klingons faction is going to be realy unique and different" and then just forget the tutorial part for them.
Is it that hard to create a Klingon tutorial that has a klingon feel to it ?

I think what it could mean is that the Klingons are a side game, and not intended to be a primary faction for players (ie they are supposed to be Alts, just like 'Monster Play' in LoTRO). The quote below seems to lean in that direction:

"The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

I left LoTRO because of it. If this is the case in STO, I am very disappointed in their PR. They have been painting a picture that you may play either the Fed or KDF, and enjoy the full game.

It now sounds like playing WoW, but where:

Alliance has all the quests and dungeons
Horde has only 25% of their quests, but is all PvP zones.


I enjoy PvP, but not as the majority of the content of an MMORPG. I will be a sad panda if Cryptic basically presents the KDF content as 'PvP'. :(

[Exist-nl-]

I think what it could mean is that the Klingons are a side game, and not intended to be a primary faction for players (ie they are supposed to be Alts, just like 'Monster Play' in LoTRO). The quote below seems to lean in that direction:

"The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

I left LoTRO because of it. If this is the case in STO, I am very disappointed in their PR. They have been painting a picture that you may play either the Fed or KDF, and enjoy the full game.

It now sounds like playing WoW, but where:

Alliance has all the quests and dungeons
Horde has only 25% of their quests, but is all PvP zones.


I enjoy PvP, but not as the majority of the content of an MMORPG. :(

I hope This is not the case , I'm still hoping Craig was drunk from his medicine :)

[mrjohng]

i loved all that crypitc put in untill now this is just there first epic failure and its a big 1.

so now i have to spend a few hours or a few weeks if i cant play that much on a smelly federation char just to be able to start all over again as a klingon??

if it takes you weeks to get a couple of hours of game play into a new game, then maybe you should just focus on your other priorities.

this is 1 of the worst ideas what ever happend to we want the game to be fun?
players rolling klingon did so for a reason my main 1 is that i dont want to touch a fed char with a 30foot pole and now im forced to look and play 1 for a few hours?

Not at all. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. However, if you want to play a klingon character, it looks very likely that you will need to play through the federation tutorial first. This is not a big deal.

i think there just trying to cut corners to make the release date set my atari seeing if you teach people the basic stuff as a fed char you dont have to put that in on the klingonside.

Thank you, captain obvious. After all, why spend time creating two tutorials that do the same thing, when the time and money could be better spent on things that are more important to the game.

no it wont be a gamekiller for me i will still get the game i will just have to get me the brothers jack and jonny to pull me true this federation madness at launch.

also this will probarly mean beta will be 95% federation only with klingons beeing totaly bugged on release.

At least at the start, the close beta is essentially guaranteed to be federation only. After Cryptic gets one faction working as they want, they will turn their attention to the next faction. This is the sensible way to develop a game like this.


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=24&a=2). Thank you, Dionaea

[Loekii]

You might wanna edit that right quick, the forum rules state that getting around the swear filter is against the rules.

Well if this is the case, and the Klingons are not a PvE faction, then I am not too sure that the poster will care if they get an infraction on a game forum of a game they will not be playing.

I certainly can respect where people are upset. Cryptic certainly have not been clear that this was their intention for the Klingons -- where PvP replaces PvE content.

Again, I think its a PR mistake. They should have had something prepared to follow up the article (so that Euro-gamer could get the scoup, but then explain it to the obviously upset fanbase. Sort of sucks that they would upset people like this -- and I find it very hard to believe that they would think people would be overjoyed with the news. They have been marketing the game one way, and now completely changed it.

[mrjohng]

Again, I think its a PR mistake. They should have had something prepared to follow up the article (so that Euro-gamer could get the scoup, but then explain it to the obviously upset fanbase. Sort of sucks that they would upset people like this -- and I find it very hard to believe that they would think people would be overjoyed with the news. They have been marketing the game one way, and now completely changed it.

Considering the way people are currently freaking out about a few vague comments, I have trouble imagining that there is anything that they could announce without causing all of the melodramatic forum whiners to be upset.

If Cryptic announced that everyone would get cake and cookies, I bet the first post would be some whiner complaining that he didn't get a pony.

[Lt.Renak]

You might wanna edit that right quick, the forum rules state that getting around the swear filter is against the rules.

you are absolutely right. My feelings about this interwiev made me choose the wrong words. Edited it directly

[Exist-nl-]

if it takes you weeks to get a couple of hours of game play into a new game, then maybe you should just focus on your other priorities.



Not at all. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. However, if you want to play a klingon character, it looks very likely that you will need to play through the federation tutorial first. This is not a big deal.



Thank you, captain obvious. After all, why spend time creating two tutorials that do the same thing, when the time and money could be better spent on things that are more important to the game.



At least at the start, the close beta is essentially guaranteed to be federation only. After Cryptic gets one faction working as they want, they will turn their attention to the next faction. This is the sensible way to develop a game like this.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=24&a=2). Thank you, Dionaea

Please keep this thread clean of personal insults.

thank you.

[Lt.Renak]

Well if this is the case, and the Klingons are not a PvE faction, then I am not too sure that the poster will care if they get an infraction on a game forum of a game they will not be playing.

I certainly can respect where people are upset. Cryptic certainly have not been clear that this was their intention for the Klingons -- where PvP replaces PvE content.

Again, I think its a PR mistake. They should have had something prepared to follow up the article (so that Euro-gamer could get the scoup, but then explain it to the obviously upset fanbase. Sort of sucks that they would upset people like this -- and I find it very hard to believe that they would think people would be overjoyed with the news. They have been marketing the game one way, and now completely changed it.

absolutely sign. I am a PvE player and I am a Klingon Fan like the 120 others of my fleet, too. We are a PvE Fleet and now it is said Klingon content is PvP mostly. How someone can believe, everyone who is Klingon Fan is a PvP Fan, too?

[jblancato]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

[slingbladez]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

This sounds like a reasonable explanation. You say you have plans on making it skippable, this is very important to me. My only concern is forcing players to start with federation might make them more likely to join federation and further throwing off the population imbalance.

[Pyrceval]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.


Thank you for coming in here...so we are correct in thinking you will have to make your fed character first, play the tutorial, and once out of there you can log out and then go and create your klingon?

[Inquizitor]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

I trust it'll be a tutorial played by the romulans yes? or is the tutorial before character creation

Or are we going to pigeonhole people into the federation first?

[Exist-nl-]

Thank you for clearing things up, and to get rid of our fears of klingons just beeing an extra gamemode .

[rogerwroten]

I think what it could mean is that the Klingons are a side game, and not intended to be a primary faction for players (ie they are supposed to be Alts, just like 'Monster Play' in LoTRO). The quote below seems to lean in that direction:

"The content that they will be experiencing is a lot more focused on PvP - fighting the Federation, fighting House versus House within the Klingon empire. So it is a full-on character with advancement, with items, with bridge officers as well. So it's a lot more than the Monster Play."

I left LoTRO because of it. If this is the case in STO, I am very disappointed in their PR. They have been painting a picture that you may play either the Fed or KDF, and enjoy the full game.

It now sounds like playing WoW, but where:

Alliance has all the quests and dungeons
Horde has only 25% of their quests, but is all PvP zones.


I enjoy PvP, but not as the majority of the content of an MMORPG. I will be a sad panda if Cryptic basically presents the KDF content as 'PvP'. :(

Loekii, how can you have a Faction vs Faction game (Which was what I thought this was supposed to be) with only one faction, or main faction. And the other factions being more or less an afterthought.

IMO it is an absolutely horrendous idea to have to play a Fed to "Unlock" the ability to play a Klingon.

[Rivaris]

thx Rekhan for clearing this up

ps.
plz make it skippable

[Nestro]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Thanks for the reply, but i don't understand how this works together with character creation. I thought we creat our characters before we play the tutorial, but that would make it impossible to select factions afterwards due to race restrictions.

Maybe you like to explane it too? Thanks a lot again.

[Manx]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Well, if it's skippable then that's fair enough.

A Klingon tutorial would have been nice; but it's not a huge deal though.

If I had to choose between a second tutorial or more 'primary' content, I know which I would pick.

[mrjohng]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Thanks for letting me say I told you so (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=822228#post822228).

[Koba]

Rekhan also said that the tutorial could be skipable after playing it once. So, afterwords you could roll a Klignon whenever you wanted. Sounds fine be me.

[blujester]

I trust it'll be a tutorial played by the romulans yes? or is the tutorial before character creation

Or are we going to pigeonhole people into the federation first?

Tutorials are very much like Boot Camp for games. Officers, Infantry, Cooks, Mechanics, Sailors, Tank Drivers, Pilots, etc all have to go through this. How, in your opinion is this pigeon holing any one? You will be free to create a KDF character who is ranked POST tutorial immediately after completion and free to skip the tutorial for any additional Characters in the future. So you have to be a recruit before you can be a soldier, it's the same for any one else and you never have to look back when it's over.



Bj

[marscentral]

Thanks for clarifying Rekhan. I think it's acceptable if it is just the tutorial, especially if it's skippable.

I'll put my torch and pitchfork away and end my gamma enhanced rampage ;)

[Exist-nl-]

So it will be Red-shirt bootcamp :)
, hopefully we all get a random pre-set Redshirt toon and after the tutorial you create youre own toon.

[Zeroth]

Now we need clarification on what the rest of the time is spent on. You said "much" of the time is spent by a shared tutorial. What about the rest?

[Nestro]

So it will be Red-shirt bootcamp :)
, hopefully we all get a random pre-set Redshirt toon and after the tutorial you create youre own toon.

That would indeed make sense. Simple yet very effective. Thanks for your input :D

[Nestro]

Now we need clarification on what the rest of the time is spent on. You said "much" of the time is spent by a shared tutorial. What about the rest?

That left me confused too :confused:

[mrjohng]

, hopefully we all get a random pre-set Redshirt toon and after the tutorial you create youre own toon.

Maybe. Probably not very likely, but maybe.

[Loekii]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

That makes sense.

However, why not just make the Klingons Unlockable immediately after the tutorial?

Assuming that the tutorial completes itself -- instead of semi-continues into the first tier of gameplay:

Play the Tutorial with Pre-made Toon for tutorial only.
After completeing the Tutorial, you go to 'character creation' (for BOTH factions).
Make the tutorial skippable, so experienced players can just load to Character creation.

[Loekii]

Now we need clarification on what the rest of the time is spent on. You said "much" of the time is spent by a shared tutorial. What about the rest?

I am wondering about that as well.

Perhaps aspects of the tutorial follow you out into the first Tier?

[Loekii]

Considering the way people are currently freaking out about a few vague comments, I have trouble imagining that there is anything that they could announce without causing all of the melodramatic forum whiners to be upset.

If Cryptic announced that everyone would get cake and cookies, I bet the first post would be some whiner complaining that he didn't get a pony.

It is human nature to react. However, that doesn't mean it should just be ignored, or that one should just shrug their shoulders.

There are proper ways to handle the release of information -- ideally to control the misinformation and incorrect assumptions.

Rehkan's comment is a good example of what should have been prepared. I would have liked to have seen it posted earlier, but I am certainly glad that he posted his comment, instead of taking your suggested approach of just shrugging his shoulders and ignoring the problems the information has created.

[Exist-nl-]

I think we handled this concern pretty well as a forum community , Some of us were concerned , a thread was made, The thread wasn't turning into personal flame war and we got a response pretty quick.

[Pyrceval]

I think we handled this concern pretty well as a forum community , Some of us were concerned , a thread was made, The thread wasn't turning into personal flame war and we got a response pretty quick.

Did we win, then? :)

[Exist-nl-]

Did we win, then? :)


We cant win , we can only complain and compromise :)

[Foss]

[...]
Play the Tutorial with Pre-made Toon for tutorial only.
After completeing the Tutorial, you go to 'character creation' (for BOTH factions).[...]

I am not really agree with this principle. A single character is enough.
What is like tutorial? to have problems like this? :D

[BrokNor]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Thank you for taking the time to find out for us and post what info you got. Great job! :cool:

[JPJappic]

I'm really disappointed as a whole with Cryptic... as i've mentioned a few times. They keep cutting corners. I was VERY excited for this game for a while but that excitement is slowly fading.

The only good thing is the fact that they mentioned the tutorial may end up being skip-able.

With that being said, in a way Cryptic has given us a false promise with Klingons as a faction right off the bat because ultimately they're not. Yes you're able to play them eventualy but most people who don't know much about the game, will load it up and be endlessly confused as to why they can't play the Klingon faction right away.

I think the whole time constraint is going to be a key factor for why many things are going to be left out at launch and Star Trek Online may end up feeling like a broken / incomplete game (yes i do realize MMOs grow but that's not the point) when launch does come around much like Champions was. (I do enjoy Champions but it's missing alot of features that should be in there especially from an MMO experienced company.)

I'm still waiting for the day where some kind of info about this game will WOW me. As i've mentioned before, I'm wondering if this is even capable for Cryptic to do at this point.

[Jacius_Ceed]

Thank you for coming in here...so we are correct in thinking you will have to make your fed character first, play the tutorial, and once out of there you can log out and then go and create your klingon?

The quoted post above and all others like it my response is, no.
If you play other games especially MMO's you will see that you play the tutorial after you create your character not before.
One of the reasons they do this is that they actually give you experience points in most of the games with tutorials.
You learn how to move around, how to fight, how to use abilities and how to distribute stat/skill points and to top it of you gain a level or two.

So even though it may look out of place when your Klingon character is running around in Federation territory or flying around in a Federation ship they can just pass it off as being a Holo-Deck simulation.
Something like training to understand how your enemy thinks so you can fight like a true warrior or some other such Kilingon way so putting things.

[lordpenquin]

In champions online You're level 5 or level 6 by the time you are out of the tutorial zone and have a few items in your inventory either usable or at least vendor trash. How will this work in this case? Will you spend several hours going through the tutoral with a temporary character that doesn't have an inventory and doesn't gain levels? That doesn't make sense. Nor does giving your Klingon character federation equipment you gained in the tutorial...

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Did we win, then? :)
Well, we will still have to create and play a Federation character for several hours before we're able to make a character in the Klingon Empire.

I wouldn't call that a win. :(

[khaless]

They should of made tutorial from borg point of view :) and everyone would be happy :)

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Thanks for the reply. Now, could you please clarify the "PVP issue (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=28271)"?

[Aethilgar]

I suspect that 'unlock' means 'get into a ship'. So a Fed will have 1.5 hours until they are issued their first ship... and Klingons 'several hours'. That is, of course, pure speculation.

[Archangelwoghd]

My guess is that the Federation side has the tutorial. If that's all it is, I'm ok with that. But if there's more to it than that, the game may lose players.

[khaless]

i wonder if u can "skip" tutorial or u HAVE to go trough it :) Science they said tutorial is basicly for new players to MMO and games in general. I would like it if they add skip function for those that don't want to go trough 1-2h of tutorial :)

[Lt.Renak]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

good to hear, but what is about pvp focus for klingons. Will we as a PvE Fleet able to level up fully Pve as Klingons or do we need to play PvP? And do I need to join a house or do I have the choice just to play PvP against Federation Players?

[blujester]

i wonder if u can "skip" tutorial or u HAVE to go trough it :) Science they said tutorial is basicly for new players to MMO and games in general. I would like it if they add skip function for those that don't want to go trough 1-2h of tutorial :)

They did say they plan to have the option to skip the tutorial "after" you've completed it once. But they want you to learn the mechanics of the game to begin with first.



Bj

[jason24]

If the tutorial is skippable once you've done it once, then it won't be so bad.
So you do the tutorial with the Fed character and once completed scrap him/her and then start proper with your Klingon.

The only thing that concerns me is where abouts does the C.C. comes into this.

Is it going to be like most games where you create your character and then go into the tutorial, or will you be givena generic character to do it with and then get access to the C.C after the tutorial is completed.

I don't want to spend time having to create a Fed character just for me to scrap it so i can play a Klingon.

Personally i would rather do the tutorial with a generic and then create my character fully after.

[Mogfire]

Well, we will still have to create and play a Federation character for several hours before we're able to make a character in the Klingon Empire.

I wouldn't call that a win. :(


Sounds like a lost cause to complain but i rather have better in game content than a silly tutorial away.

[Musterion]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Thanks for this :). However, I still feel that it's somewhat unimaginative and immersion-breaking for there to not be a Klingon tutorial :(

[khaless]

They did say they plan to have the option to skip the tutorial "after" you've completed it once. But they want you to learn the mechanics of the game to begin with first.



Bj

thats all very nice but what when i pass it 1st time in closed beta.. then second time in open beta and 3rd time in live.. now that sux :(

[Inquizitor]

Thanks for this :). However, I still feel that it's somewhat unimaginative and immersion-breaking for there to not be a Klingon tutorial :(

It is laziness. A Tutorial isn't just about teaching you the basics. It also sets the mood and tone for your faction.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

However, I still feel that it's somewhat unimaginative and immersion-breaking for there to not be a Klingon tutorial :(

I dont think Cryptic is very concerned with "RP". In CO, some characters say things like "who wrote this mission"? :rolleyes:

[evan.is.weyoun]

So we're forced to create a Federation character from the get-go? That sounds really lame. I understand time constraints and only making one tutorial, but it's just a waste because us Klingon players will make that Federation character and, once the tutorial is over, simply throw them away to make a Klingon character.

Unless somehow we choose faction and race beforehand like in WoW... it just seems like a REALLY weird way of doing it, and I don't like it. Couldn't you at least make it faction-neutral, or a two-sided tutorial? It could be something like a battle between the Federation and Klingons. Federation characters start on one side, Klingons start on the other, and it could essentially be the same tutorial but able to be played by both factions.

[Duckdee]

Wow, ok. Not my usual type of topic to comment on, but this is very odd, even with the explanation.

[vobedarkelf]

I doubt I can say anything here that hasn't already been said, but this is a difficult issue for anyone eager to play a Klingon. I think this topic will generate negetive feedback for a long time.

The "Several hours" part is what bothers me. The Champions Online tutorial can be done in about 20 minutes, if you know what to do. That would be fine. But typically when people say "several hours" they mean 3 or more. I would not want to participate in that much 'Federation Newbie Land Adventures' on my first day of playing. Especially considering how Cryptic ran the CO beta on a very limited scedual. In the earlier months, we only got to play about 5 hours a day, 2 days a week, if they opened the servers at all that week. I dont want to waste my whole first day of beta testing by playing a 'temporary' character through the tutorial, only to delete it and start over as a Klingon.

If hypothetically speaking, Beta began tomorrow, the first thing I would want to do is jump on the character creator and make my own custom Klingon.

I am also concerned about that other point, about Klingons being more PvP oriented also has me somewhat worried. This gives me the impression that Klingon players will serve more as badguys for the federation players than be a seriously playable (and complete) faction. I want to play a Klingon, but I am not interested in PvPing all the time.

[lordpenquin]

if they wanted to make a single tutorial, they should have made a single federation space station that was under attack. That way the new federation player was someone defending it and the new klingon player was someone attacking it. It would be the same location, teaching the same things and interface but it would meet the needs of both factions to be represented.

[NicoleDuBois]

They could have done a similar Tutorial on the Klingon Homeworld. Probably a Klingon Academy, were you character learns all the stuff.

Just the Klingon Way. Would it be so hard to create two Start Points?

One for Klingons and one for Federation?

[Musterion]

It is laziness. A Tutorial isn't just about teaching you the basics. It also sets the mood and tone for your faction.

Aye. It's a shame to hear this and it's seeming that Klingons will be essentially an afterthought in STO, in spite of the "PR Cycle won't let them say anything" get-out clause.

I dont think Cryptic is very concerned with "RP". In CO, some characters say things like "who wrote this mission"? :rolleyes:

Tasty, tasty fourth wall. I remember reading a piece about exactly this and how it sort of hurts CO for it to be so flippant, always trying for laughs and pop-culture nudges, instead of focusing on creating an involving and believable, if not somewhat generic, gameworld. :(

[SelorKiith]

They could have done a similar Tutorial on the Klingon Homeworld. Probably a Klingon Academy, were you character learns all the stuff.

Just the Klingon Way. Would it be so hard to create two Start Points?

One for Klingons and one for Federation?

Rekhan gives an explanation for this...

[Aethilgar]

This sounds like a reasonable explanation. You say you have plans on making it skippable, this is very important to me. My only concern is forcing players to start with federation might make them more likely to join federation and further throwing off the population imbalance.

This is a valid concern. Not that I mind winning a battle as an underdog; but it would be nice to have a shot at an even population.

[Aethilgar]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

Do not get me wrong; I want to see STO as soon as possible. If I have to make a Federation character first, so be it. I was planning on having both anyway. But will a Klingon tutorial be added in the future? Or can the current tutorial be made non-aligned? As in representing races of neither faction?

[Kayos]

I hope we can skip the tutorial when the romulans are released :)

[FelFox]

They could let you make your Klingon, design the ship or whatever, do everything it takes to start, then, when you play the game you're a federation new captain yadda yadda, do the tutorial, then end with your ship getting ambushed. Make it a little in game clip of the ship getting blown up, then the camera swirls to your Klingon ship as everyone on board is laughing and then it's time to go Klingon style stuff :p There, tutorial, but with a sinister ending.

[NyQuil]

Please Read !













It quite clearly states and has been confirmed by Jack Everat and Zinc and a few others at Pax on the team that Klingons and Federation WILL BE THERE FROM THE START, but there is a few things you have to do from the start to unlock the characters on both sides, the Federation will take up to 1.5 hours, and the klingons have house to house and honour things to deal with before they unlock. Dont see more in this article than there actually is. We both have to unlock things and we both have playable factions from the very get go.

If people would just listen to me they wouldnt panick and cause fuss thats really not needed :)

Dude, you need to calm down. Stop posting six times in a row and let it be. You are not THE source of info for STO and nothing you say, other than what was quoted, will be taken as fact. Where did you get that number of 1.5 hours to get into space? Which article? I would like to read it. As well, where is it written that the klingons have to take longer?

Calm down, calm down, calm down.

No fussing. We're just asking questions. Cryptic is being unclear. Stop believing everything they say or make the best out of everything. You seem to be taking more out of it than they give you.

Chill.

[Elboulevardo]

im sorry folks but the point about how if people play the federation tutorial first are more likely to play the federation is a load...theres no basis for fact on this...people will play what appeals to them the most...and quite frankly anyone who wants to play klingon, is not going to NOT play klingon just cuz of a 2 hour tutorial...to suggest otherwise is a reaction out of panic and nothing else

if you can show me any MMO that has perfect server balance in faction vs faction when it comes to number of players id love to see it

the only way to manage it is to impose a per-character creation limitation based on the real-time faction number +/- 5%

if faction variance is < 5%, creation can be done for either fed or klingon
if faction variance is > 5%, creation can only be done for faction with less population

doing that can turn a lot of people off because if they sign up to play klingon, and cant because server is beyond the balance threshold and they are forced to play federation (or vice versa), they gonna be angry having to wait, and would be more likely to not renew subscription then someone who is angry about having to do a 2 hour tutorial

perspective, people :)

[Exist-nl-]

They could let you make your Klingon, design the ship or whatever, do everything it takes to start, then, when you play the game you're a federation new captain yadda yadda, do the tutorial, then end with your ship getting ambushed. Make it a little in game clip of the ship getting blown up, then the camera swirls to your Klingon ship as everyone on board is laughing and then it's time to go Klingon style stuff :p There, tutorial, but with a sinister ending.

LOL that would be awesome

Or you could be a Klingon spy that infiltrated starfleet academy

[Inquizitor]

Show me another MMO that has seperate factions and doesn't have a tutorial for each.

I'm not concenred about people coming in already knowing what faciton they want. I'm more concerned about the funneling of apathetic players into the federation.

[gair22]

I think this is sort of an exadurated topic. Its an academy you go through . Just let someone be a klingon in the starfleet academy. Whatever , i'll skip it like everyone else after trying it once anyway.

[mrjohng]

I dont want to waste my whole first day of beta testing by playing a 'temporary' character through the tutorial, only to delete it and start over as a Klingon.


You may want to sit down for this, but its rather unlikely that klingons are going to be available at the start of closed beta.

[Manx]

They could let you make your Klingon, design the ship or whatever, do everything it takes to start, then, when you play the game you're a federation new captain yadda yadda, do the tutorial, then end with your ship getting ambushed. Make it a little in game clip of the ship getting blown up, then the camera swirls to your Klingon ship as everyone on board is laughing and then it's time to go Klingon style stuff :p There, tutorial, but with a sinister ending.

LOL

Brilliant! :D

[Korrific]

I'm not concenred about people coming in already knowing what faciton they want. I'm more concerned about the funneling of apathetic players into the federation.
I don't see how that matters much - said players won't stay in the Federation long if they have a choice.

I've been looking forward to playing the Klingon side of things, but I don't have an issue with running through the "basics" Fed-side. I think it's lazy design, but it's not a game-killer if we get to skip it after the first run.

I will add my little voice of concern about Klingon gameplay being mostly PvP, as I'd really like to delve into exploration and discovery from a Klingon POV (down the barrel of a disruptor, sure, but still...).

[gt5059b]

I'm really disappointed as a whole with Cryptic... as i've mentioned a few times. They keep cutting corners. I was VERY excited for this game for a while but that excitement is slowly fading.

The only good thing is the fact that they mentioned the tutorial may end up being skip-able.

With that being said, in a way Cryptic has given us a false promise with Klingons as a faction right off the bat because ultimately they're not. Yes you're able to play them eventualy but most people who don't know much about the game, will load it up and be endlessly confused as to why they can't play the Klingon faction right away.

I think the whole time constraint is going to be a key factor for why many things are going to be left out at launch and Star Trek Online may end up feeling like a broken / incomplete game (yes i do realize MMOs grow but that's not the point) when launch does come around much like Champions was. (I do enjoy Champions but it's missing alot of features that should be in there especially from an MMO experienced company.)

I'm still waiting for the day where some kind of info about this game will WOW me. As i've mentioned before, I'm wondering if this is even capable for Cryptic to do at this point.


I agree with this as well... Cryptic doesn't have the resources to make a Klingon tutorial? What does this tell you about the rest of the content. Hmm, isn't that one of the biggest problems with CO?

I plan to play Federation anyway, but I think this really stinks for the players who want to play Klingon. I'm afraid that the Klingon side of the game is just gonna be subpar.


Who wants to bet that BioWare isn't going to make Sith players have to go thru the Jedi tutorial? If Cryptic is smart; they won't release STO till it is polished AND complete on both the Fed and KDF. However, based on their prior games I'm not very optimistic.

[Loekii]

They did say they plan to have the option to skip the tutorial "after" you've completed it once. But they want you to learn the mechanics of the game to begin with first.

Bj

Another aspect to consider about the tutorial is what they are using as a measure for the 'few hours'.

In EQ2, you could spend a few hours on the 'Tutorial Isle', or you could race through it and get off the island alot sooner. Hopefully that will be the case.

As far as Toon creation I think its going to be like:

Character Creation = FED ONLY toons (only Fed Faction).

You may only select 'FEDERATION' Faction.
KLINGON faction is 'grayed out' (not clickable/selectable).

You play the tutorial and then Unlick Klingon Content.
You have to log out with your FED toon.
You go back to the Character Generator and now you have the option to select Klingon as a Faction.
You create a new Klingon Toon, and start playing Klingon content.


They might start all Klingon players at a pre-set level --- ie you start as 'level 5' so to speak.

[funnystuffz]

I have to say, this will really take away from the 'realism' factor of the game. Why the hell would you do a tutorial as a starfleet officer, to simply then, once completed, be able to create your klingon character?

It's all about first impressions, and whilst you might only do the tutorial once, the tutorial is actually the first thing we all see, and thus you could state, is what is cemented in our minds right from the start.

I personally am only interested in playing the Federation from the start, however, I can definitely see a turn off having to go through stages/levels/tutorials first before being able to be a Klingon. It might have been another week the designers had to put klingon ships in place of feds, and klingon planets etc, but really, would it be that hard?

I think the biggest thing here is we are all so used to being able to get in our game 'mindset' from the beginning. Like in other trek games, you chose the race you want to go, and you begin. Here it's like you cant get in to that mindset from the beginning.

At least Craig actually spoke about the klingons in this interview. I have to say, it probably was the most informative interview, regarding actually speaking about them, that we have ever heard.

[blujester]

Show me another MMO that has seperate factions and doesn't have a tutorial for each.

I'm not concenred about people coming in already knowing what faciton they want. I'm more concerned about the funneling of apathetic players into the federation.

You want apathetic players in the KDF ? You want casual players who have no interest in PVP in the KDF? You want first time MMO players with zero skills in the KDF? And you want these Why?

I will submit to you that most players starting this game will have an idea what faction they wish to play. And most will face a moment when they wonder if the other side might or might not be more to their liking. A tutorial is not going to change that.


Bj

[jemus]

i think we all play a tutorial with a random charakter, before we set up our own charakter, its just massive time you need to make more than 1 tutorial...

i always thought klingons are not that whiny, keep cool ;)

[erriku]

Another aspect to consider about the tutorial is what they are using as a measure for the 'few hours'.

In EQ2, you could spend a few hours on the 'Tutorial Isle', or you could race through it and get off the island alot sooner. Hopefully that will be the case.

As far as Toon creation I think its going to be like:

Character Creation = FED ONLY toons (only Fed Faction).

You may only select 'FEDERATION' Faction.
KLINGON faction is 'grayed out' (not clickable/selectable).

You play the tutorial and then Unlick Klingon Content.
You have to log out with your FED toon.
You go back to the Character Generator and now you have the option to select Klingon as a Faction.
You create a new Klingon Toon, and start playing Klingon content.


They might start all Klingon players at a pre-set level --- ie you start as 'level 5' so to speak.

I think this is probably how it is going to happen. I am completely fine with that especially since I wanted to make an alt feddie toon anyway.

[gair22]

It's all about first impressions

Imo; the most important part of having a good tutorial. It is probable someone may not like the tutorial phase and just quit playing right there.

[mrjohng]

Imo; the most important part of having a good tutorial. It is probable someone may not like the tutorial phase and just quit playing right there.

Right, because people usually spend $50 bucks on an MMO and then quit if they don't like the tutorial. That totally happens all the time. Totally.

[Loekii]

Right, because people usually spend $50 bucks on an MMO and then quit if they don't like the tutorial. That totally happens all the time. Totally.

I have quite a few games that I have paid that for, and maybe only played a few hours.

Happens all the time.

However, imo, if someone dislikes the tutorial that much, they would feel the same way, regardless of a Klingon or Fed tutorial. Such decisions tend to be a dislike of the gameplay entirely, so a 'different perspective' would not change their opinion.

[Elboulevardo]

it tells me that they are not wasting as much time on non-critical parts of the game...obviously everyone would prefer to have a faction tutorial for both sides...in fact i think they could use the lore of ST to create some really cool episodic missions for the tutorial piece (Starfleet/Klingon Academy, etc), but i dont think there is anything wrong with having the tuturial generalized with one faction, then giving the player the choice after the tutorial

even if a player is influenced cuz its federation first, there is just as much of a chance of a player seeing how cool Klingon play is and leaving federation to switch to Klingon, so i think it will balance out.

[Inquizitor]

You want apathetic players in the KDF ? You want casual players who have no interest in PVP in the KDF? You want first time MMO players with zero skills in the KDF? And you want these Why?

Ij

Yes on all counts.

These are players who can be taught. They are the players who can provide a backbone to our economy. Just because the klingons are focused more on the PvP doesn't mean that is all we will ever do.

You look at a new player as a liability. I look at a new player as the future.

[Sandmanjw]

Well, it seems they are working to a strict time line. If so i have to agree with the call they made.

Spend the time and resources making a new tutorial for Klingon's, or add more content to make game better.

Was hoping to see a very polished core game, but will have to deal with what they can do.

[Zinoviev]

Right, because people usually spend $50 bucks on an MMO and then quit if they don't like the tutorial. That totally happens all the time. Totally.

Not on purchasing the game, but on free trials. I tried Warhammer and hated the tutorial so never went beyond that.

With all that said, I still think this game will be just fine with its Fed only tutorial. From what I read from the Russian website, the tutorial mission sounds like it will be like an episode. Most tutorials have pointless mini-quests.

I am not a huge fan of CO due to lack of instanced missions and group content, but they did have an awesome tutorial where you halt an invasion.

So Cryptic has good ideas when it comes to tutorials I think.

[Faerlzress]

I think this is actually a good idea from a game play and gamer perspective. Instead of having two tutorials you have one area, Star Fleet, that is training all the details of ship ops. This streamlines their tutorial process so everyone is on the same page. If players seem to be doing things wonky they have one tutorial to go back and tweak in order to explain the systems better.

Smart move.

They had unlocks in City of Heroes as well. Though it sounds like what they want is you to understand the main gameplay elements. When you login to the Klingons you are on your own. You won't have the episodic content to the same extent. It will be more open gameplay. The Klingons are basically part of the elder game.

[blujester]

Yes on all counts.

These are players who can be taught. They are the players who can provide a backbone to our economy. Just because the klingons are focused more on the PvP doesn't mean that is all we will ever do.

You look at a new player as a liability. I look at a new player as the future.

I can agree with you to a point ..but.. If we are to believe that KDF is much more focused on PVP than PVE and if we are to believe that HvsH PVP is integral to KDF play than the potential to drive off casual and apathetic players is far greater on the KDF side than on the Fed. This I could forsee as a problem. Much preferable to let them get their feet wet on the Care Bear side than throw them to the wolves in vicious House wars and convincing them the world hates them. It would make more sense for the newer players and less experienced gamers to learn to fight NPC's before subjecting them to the animal that is PVP. I've never met an NPC who could beat me 20 times in a row and call me names in violation of the EULA but I've experienced that in PVP multiple times.


Bj

[Tribbler]

Hey folks,
I just talked with Craig about this. Many of you guys were right - this is tutorial related. In fact, much of the "several hours" Craig mentioned in the article is taken up by the tutorial, which is in fact Federation-specific.

We opted to create a single tutorial due to time constraints. We wanted to make the tutorial engaging and informative and give players the knowledge they need to enter the game world and be viable both in space and on the ground. We think we accomplished this goal. However, the tutorial is also something you'll likely play through once (we have plans on making it skippable), which means focusing extra energy on a second tutorial that teaches you the same thing, only with an entirely new art and level set, would take more time than we'd like to spend on a mission you won't be talking about or playing after your first day in the game. It's just a question of assignation of designers and prioritizing our content so we can focus on the good, really memorable stuff throughout the game, rather than right at the beginning.

As I was saying about 15 posts earlier.

Oh ye members of little faith, please stay tuned for the next fortunetelling episode of:

Tribbler and the Goblet of Secrets