Encouragement from Aion's Release

[JacobFlowers]

Being that I work in the MMO industry (a very large content network), I get exposed a lot of news and bits from all aspects of the industry, including other games.

For those of you who don't know, Aion is the most recent AAA(top notch) MMO to be released by their publisher NCSoft (the same guys who did Lineage, and currently develop CoX, however it should be noted that Cryptic and NCSoft have no current ties or affiliations with each other). It has been released for over a year in the Asian market, yet they have chosen to delay their launch to the west. This game at its very core with asian elements, was intended for the occidental market.

With this in mind, I found this little tid bit encouraging:

Massively: So far, the biggest compliment we seem to hear about Aion is that it is extremely polished and relatively bug-free. We realize that this is partially due to all the improvements made in Korea before releasing to the western audience, but just how important is polish and performance to you? Do you think MMOs will ever achieve a gold standard in terms of quality upon release and after patches or are they simply too complex?

Brian Knox Aion Producer: I believe there is a point of diminishing returns. We classify bugs with different priority. Two of these differentiators are 1) How many people will it affect, 2) Is there a work around. For example, if the class change quest was unable to be completed at level 10, this is a large issue because it affects almost every player and there is no work around. We had a large decision ahead of us with Aion. Do we release as close to possible to the Korean release or do we wait until we feel the game is polished completely for our market? We were very concerned that delaying our release would hinder our community and the growth of Aion in the West, but we felt that releasing an unpolished product would be even worse. Our growth since our betas have started have been beyond our expectations so I really feel we made the right choice in ensuring the game was ready for our market versus working towards a more synced release with Korea.

I for one would support Cryptic, if they felt it necessary to push back the launch date (although of my word, it took every once of strength in me to type that!:D).

Best of luck to you Cryptic.

What do you want?
What do the rest of you think? Would you prefer an earlier launch, or would you prefer a later launch to ensure a smooth launch, more polished game, and one that will include many of those things we want that are stamped with 'not at launch'.

I understand NCSoft's initial trepidation about delaying release, but I suppose in the end it has been met favorably. In almost all reviews I've read, it has been praised and rated higher than CO, so perhaps a delayed launch was worth it? We'll see!

NCSoft stands to encourage us, that one developer in the MMO arena has made a decided stand to polish a game and get it right for launch day. We can hope other publishers follow suit.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Cryptic and NCSoft no longer work together on anything.

Cryptic had absolutely nothing to do with Aion.

As such I don't see where anything that happens to/with Aion has anything to do with STO.

[JacobFlowers]

Cryptic and NCSoft no longer work together on anything.

Cryptic had absolutely nothing to do with Aion.

As such I don't see where anything that happens to/with Aion has anything to do with STO.

Sorry, I did not make that distinction in the OP, I hope I didn't confuse you. My intention was to shed light that there are other developers/publishers that are following suit with the idea 'no launch, until fine tuned and ready'.

There have been so many haphazard releases of MMO's, even AAA MMO's as of late, that Aion and NCSoft stand to set a good example. Do you disagree?

[Nestro]

Peregrine, sometimes i have the impression you think more like a robot than a human :D

The title says it all, to learn from AION.

I think NCsoft did right to do so, and i would strongly(!) advice cryptic to do the same. (it realy isnt easy to type this, you are right :()

[jeandeaux]

I believe the core of the post was do you think they should push for an early release or stand fast and put out a quality product.

That's easy, put out a quality product but hurry every chance you get.

[Admiral-Darren-Wright]

Being that I work in the MMO industry (a very large content network), I get exposed a lot of news and bits from all aspects of the industry, including other games.

For those of you who don't know, Aion is the most recent AAA(top notch) MMO to be released by their publisher NCSoft (the same guys who did Lineage, and currently develop CoX, however it should be noted that Cryptic and NCSoft have no current ties or affiliations with each other). It has been released for over a year in the Asian market, yet they have chosen to delay their launch to the west. This game at its very core with asian elements, was intended for the occidental market.

With this in mind, I found this little tid bit encouraging:



I for one would support Cryptic, if they felt it necessary to push back the launch date (although of my word, it took every once of strength in me to type that!:D).

Best of luck to you Cryptic.

What do you want?
What do the rest of you think? Would you prefer an earlier launch, or would you prefer a later launch to ensure a smooth launch, more polished game, and one that will include many of those things we want that are stamped with 'not at launch'.

I understand NCSoft's initial trepidation about delaying release, but I suppose in the end it has been met favorably. In almost all reviews I've read, it has been praised and rated higher than CO, so perhaps a delayed launch was worth it? We'll see!

NCSoft stands to encourage us, that one developer in the MMO arena has made a decided stand to polish a game and get it right for launch day. We can hope other publishers follow suit.

What is Beta for, i think in 2010 with current technology we do not need to send games abroad to have them better here, We just need patience and attention to detail, in paying attention to the small things the big things get 100 times better ! And i see your resoning but comparing it to CO is not the best comparison, theres many of us wouldnt play CO anyway, and some land content in sto videos are similer and not the best but its the space and customisation that gets us really excited. And all games get updates and get a new look over time, look at eve and the trinity engine update ! Even if we sent the game abroad for a year it would get updates when it game here. Why postpone the wait now, it will only mean some of us that have been waiting 6 years for this have to wait even longer. And if we have waited 6 years we can overlook a few glitches in the beginning.

[Sandmanjw]

I have said, and believe, that the largest mistake a game dev or publisher makes is to rush the games.

Polish tops content. Reason? If you have to constantly fix and balance the core game all that time is wasted. Wasted time and turned off gamers.

If you launch and you can start to ADD content, missions, quests, you are taking a polished product and adding to it. Not trying to fix the core.

The time of throw it out there and fix as we go is over. You have 1 month to hook people and if you spend that month balancing and bug fixing, you will not only lose many customers but you also gain a very large and very vocal ,permanent, hate club. The haters never forget, they will still trash a game years after being burned.And years after even playing a game. No matter the game changes that get made.

[Peregrine_Falcon]

Peregrine, sometimes i have the impression you think more like a robot than a human :D

The title says it all, to learn from AION.

I think NCsoft did right to do so, and i would strongly(!) advice cryptic to do the same. (it realy isnt easy to type this, you are right :()
Ok, please allow me to rephrase my statement.

This thread is in the Star Trek Online Discussion forum, and it has nothing to do with Star Trek Online.

The Cryptic development team has successfully launched TWO MMOs. When they launched City of Heroes/Villains back in 2004, one of the aspects that was most talked about was that the launch was smooth and bug-free in relation to other MMOs.

When they launched Champions Online was it a buggy nightmare like Age of Conan or Tabula Rasa? Nope.

So relax. Cryptic has an established track record of smooth and relatively bug-free game launches.

[Sandmanjw]

Ok, please allow me to rephrase my statement.

This thread is in the Star Trek Online Discussion forum, and it has nothing to do with Star Trek Online.

The Cryptic development team has successfully launched TWO MMOs. When they launched City of Heroes/Villains back in 2004, one of the aspects that was most talked about was that the launch was smooth and bug-free in relation to other MMOs.

When they launched Champions Online was it a buggy nightmare like Age of Conan or Tabula Rasa? Nope.

So relax. Cryptic has an established track record of smooth and relatively bug-free game launches.

Heh i would disagree that CO would go in the + column:) Playable sure. Buggy yes, and unbalanced yes also.

[Deadjester1]

Ok, please allow me to rephrase my statement.

This thread is in the Star Trek Online Discussion forum, and it has nothing to do with Star Trek Online.

The Cryptic development team has successfully launched TWO MMOs. When they launched City of Heroes/Villains back in 2004, one of the aspects that was most talked about was that the launch was smooth and bug-free in relation to other MMOs.

When they launched Champions Online was it a buggy nightmare like Age of Conan or Tabula Rasa? Nope.

So relax. Cryptic has an established track record of smooth and relatively bug-free game launches.

Actually, I think the "relax" statment actually applies here. I read lots and lots of post but only reply to whats needed.

I see no sign of the "sky is falling" in this post, just somebody voicing their concern with fellow members of this fourm and asking for feed back. After all if you get a good number of people saying, "take your time, do it right" then thoes same people can't later come back and say, "we need the game now!". So in essence, you actually can kill two birds with one stone.

I for one, responding to the Spirit of this post, am very willing to wait for a more polished game.

The only issue I have is the lack of info.

It is my personal belief that STO membership here has allot of people who have allot of experience playing many MMOs and would be able to give some insight on what is going on if they had a chance. You won't be able to please everyone but you would be able to sift through it all and be able to see the mind set and might be able to pick up on a few things that might have gotten over looked. Because no matter how experienced a MMO maker is, when you are the one involved, sometimes you are to close to the issue to actually see the issue so just like a doctor, a second opinion never hurts.

On top of that, you would be able to provide much for the community to much on and debate over and bring in even more people for as people get more and more excited, it doesn't just stay contained on this board. They talk to their friends, co-workers, etc, etc and they in turn might get interested and it spread from there and so on and so on. Next thing you know, you have a HUGE player base just waiting for THE DAY the game is launched.

So yes, I would be willing to wait for a polished game and in return it would be nice to actually see how things are working so as to add my two cents listened to or not to help provide a better launch and a game with a long life ahead of it.

[SoulBear]

It comes down to the testers and dev team, as long as the testers are there to test the game and not get a jumpstart. They will report the bugs. Although AION was released in the east a year before the west. Dont you think they had bugs at the start? Every MMO has bugs. People go out of there way to find exploits and there are unseen problems that the devs will miss. I think thats why we pay monthly fee. To keep the game devs payed so they can further content the game. Also they can be on a payroll to fix game bugs, or thing that are broken. Again I think the big thing that will put a well polished game out in the end is the testers. They need to do there job and push the game to its limits before it gets published. If they do this then you will have a great game ontime. In the end I dont think the games put out will ever be bug free. Its not a perfect world.

[indigowhale345]

That's really a load of bull. Their decision not to release earlier here has nothing to do with bugs. They released it in plenty of other markets before the western market. Why? It doesn't appeal to the western market.

Aion is a PVP game. It is a grindy game. It looks and feels like a Korean MMO, and all of that isn't as popular here.

Aion will go a similar route as Lineage 2 did, in the western market. I don't think any MMOs in the west thrive with full on PVP, unbridled ganking, etc. And that is precisely what Aion becomes after level 20. It is definitely not a WoW clone, however it is a PVP game pure and simple.

Right now a lot of people are playing it thinking its a new WoW. They will be in for a real surprise when they are trying to grind out some levels and a massive horde of people 10+ levels higher than them comes through a rift and slaughters them without a real chance of fighting back. Yeah some people will love that. Most will not.

It will almost certainly suffer a massive player hemorrhage in the future and not because of bugs or polish. It won't die or fail, though, it is what it is and I think enough people will like it for that. But at its core, its not a game most of us in the west want to play. And for all its food crafting, there are no tacos which is pretty sad.

[JacobFlowers]

What is Beta for, i think in 2010 with current technology we do not need to send games abroad to have them better here, We just need patience and attention to detail, in paying attention to the small things the big things get 100 times better ! And i see your resoning but comparing it to CO is not the best comparison, theres many of us wouldnt play CO anyway, and some land content in sto videos are similer and not the best but its the space and customisation that gets us really excited. And all games get updates and get a new look over time, look at eve and the trinity engine update ! Even if we sent the game abroad for a year it would get updates when it game here. Why postpone the wait now, it will only mean some of us that have been waiting 6 years for this have to wait even longer. And if we have waited 6 years we can overlook a few glitches in the beginning.


What is beta for. That is a good question. I'll address this in conjunction with your assertion that it is no good to make comparisons to CO. On the contrary it is perfectly to do so, why? Because they are being developed by the same studio.

CO had a closed beta, as well as an open beta, AS WELL as a 3 day head start. What is beta for? I don't know in their case. Cryptic did not launch a game that was ready. Hence the infamous launch day nerf patch, coupled with the plethora of patches that have come out since.

As for stating we shouldn't launch the game overseas first... no one was suggesting that.

Ok, please allow me to rephrase my statement.

This thread is in the Star Trek Online Discussion forum, and it has nothing to do with Star Trek Online.

The Cryptic development team has successfully launched TWO MMOs. When they launched City of Heroes/Villains back in 2004, one of the aspects that was most talked about was that the launch was smooth and bug-free in relation to other MMOs.

When they launched Champions Online was it a buggy nightmare like Age of Conan or Tabula Rasa? Nope.

So relax. Cryptic has an established track record of smooth and relatively bug-free game launches.

I will readily admit I do not know anything about CoX's launches, that was way before my MMO days. As for CO however, I feel that you have missed the point and perhaps we are juggling with relative terms. What may seem like a 'smooth launch' to you, is seen as a 'rough launch' at best by many on their forums, many professional gaming review sites (gamespot, eurogamer, etc), and many random people who have read those reviews and commented offering agreement rather than dissension.

Smooth launch? Do you consider the infamous launch day nerf patch a smooth transition for the community? What about the lack of content so many contend with? And what about the severe issues of balance? And yes, there were bugs. My contention is not about Cryptic's launch 'reputation' nor does it have to do with Champions Online. Perhaps you are not as informed as I am (and this is not a personal attack, given that I work for a large content network that is center on the MMO industry), but if you want an example of a smooth launch, then perhaps it is not arbitrary that my OP contained an interview regarding Aion's smooth launch, not Champions.

The core of my OP stands: Would you prefer the game to be launched earlier, with features added later, or would you be okay with Cryptic delaying launch to ensure a more smooth launch, greater amount of content incorporated into the game, and to include a few more of the features (either large or small) that have been relegated to the 'not at launch' pile.

That's really a load of bull. Their decision not to release earlier here has nothing to do with bugs. They released it in plenty of other markets before the western market. Why? It doesn't appeal to the western market.

Aion is a PVP game. It is a grindy game. It looks and feels like a Korean MMO, and all of that isn't as popular here.

Aion will go a similar route as Lineage 2 did, in the western market. I don't think any MMOs in the west thrive with full on PVP, unbridled ganking, etc. And that is precisely what Aion becomes after level 20. It is definitely not a WoW clone, however it is a PVP game pure and simple.

Right now a lot of people are playing it thinking its a new WoW. They will be in for a real surprise when they are trying to grind out some levels and a massive horde of people 10+ levels higher than them comes through a rift and slaughters them without a real chance of fighting back. Yeah some people will love that. Most will not.

It will almost certainly suffer a massive player hemorrhage in the future and not because of bugs or polish. It won't die or fail, though, it is what it is and I think enough people will like it for that. But at its core, its not a game most of us in the west want to play. And for all its food crafting, there are no tacos which is pretty sad.

Whether Aion will be successful or not is not the core issue of the original post. You are correct that the gaming style is more based on Korean gaming standards (i.e. the focus on PvP for end game), but what is noteworthy (and why i created the thred in the first place) is that Aion has received unprecedented news coverage on the polish and smoothness of their game launch here in the west.

[Loekii]

I have said, and believe, that the largest mistake a game dev or publisher makes is to rush the games.

I am willing to bet most games are not 'rushed' out by choice, but rather are held until the run out of 'money' so to speak, and thus must launch to get the influx of revenue from box sales.

[Avantos]

The core of my OP stands: Would you prefer the game to be launched earlier, with features added later, or would you be okay with Cryptic delaying launch to ensure a more smooth launch, greater amount of content incorporated into the game, and to include a few more of the features (either large or small) that have been relegated to the 'not at launch' pile.



My $.02 is that I would prefer an earlier launch with more features added later. It's not like they'll launch it, we'll run the tutorial and then have nothing to do till an update. Similarly, a delayed lauch with more content isn't going to satisfy the powergamer player, since they'll be max lvl in 3 weeks after launch anyway. I'd rather have it sooner, with the main content in, rather than later, and be able to look forward to additional things added in.

Again, just my $.02...

[Faerlzress]

As a somewhat aside to the OPs post. It seems in order to get that polished game you actually have to release it to some market somewhere. So if we wanted STO to be released with that same polish maybe we should release it in Canada or Australia first?

Seems unlikely though as the core market is the US. And for Aion the core market was Korea.

It probably would be a good idea though if publishers did mini releases instead of a full blown launch everywhere. So release it in some small country first and then tier it up over several months.

Even so since their core engine is running champions the only major issues should be gameplay. Graphics, lag and so forth should be fairly smooth at launch. They just need the content at this point.

[Koba]

First, one of the main problems with CO was not that it was not finished, it was that the direction of the game did not coincide with what players wanted.

No grouping content? Really? That is a game design flaw, not an "unfinished" work.


I am for STO releasing sooner rather than later. Someone said that power gamers will hit max level in days to weeks anyway, regardless of the amount of content, and that is correct.

If there is a basic game flaw like Tier 4 ships do not work, or game crashes every 20 minutes, or you are not able to shoot phasers in ground combat, then delay launch by all means.

If however, it is a design flaw you do not like (for example the CO no group content), then it will not improve with time. The direction of the game will be clear in 2010, and delaying wont change much.

If you do not like PvP-heavy Klignons, you wont like it in a 6 month delay either.

[JacobFlowers]

As a somewhat aside to the OPs post. It seems in order to get that polished game you actually have to release it to some market somewhere. So if we wanted STO to be released with that same polish maybe we should release it in Canada or Australia first?

Seems unlikely though as the core market is the US. And for Aion the core market was Korea.

It probably would be a good idea though if publishers did mini releases instead of a full blown launch everywhere. So release it in some small country first and then tier it up over several months.

Even so since their core engine is running champions the only major issues should be gameplay. Graphics, lag and so forth should be fairly smooth at launch. They just need the content at this point.

Seriously, this made me laugh. Not in any mocking sort of way... just... 'release it in canada first' haha, that really is hilarious.

Anyway, actually Aion was geared for the Western market as the OP states. You can read the entire interview (http://www.massively.com/2009/10/08/exclusive-interview-with-aion-producer-brian-knox/).

Anyway yea... lets release in Canada or Australia first. haha. It is in some way a good idea actually, haha, but I'm not so sure how the Canadians would feel as a group of guinea pigs :p

[JacobFlowers]

First, one of the main problems with CO was not that it was not finished, it was that the direction of the game did not coincide with what players wanted.

No grouping content? Really? That is a game design flaw, not an "unfinished" work.


I am for STO releasing sooner rather than later. Someone said that power gamers will hit max level in days to weeks anyway, regardless of the amount of content, and that is correct.

If there is a basic game flaw like Tier 4 ships do not work, or game crashes every 20 minutes, or you are not able to shoot phasers in ground combat, then delay launch by all means.

If however, it is a design flaw you do not like (for example the CO no group content), then it will not improve with time. The direction of the game will be clear in 2010, and delaying wont change much.

If you do not like PvP-heavy Klignons, you wont like it in a 6 month delay either.

Read the review of CO at Eurogamer. They stated: good, but not quite finished.

Gamespot, gamepsy, ign i think all said the same or similar things.

[ryuto]

Read the review of CO at Eurogamer. They stated: good, but not quite finished.

Gamespot, gamepsy, ign i think all said the same or similar things.

As a CO player, I'll refrain from commenting on my negative thoughts of the game. However, I will say that I believe that Cryptic has learned from their mistakes and I don't believe they'll have any major problems with STO. That being said, though, all the people pushing for major changes or pushing the game back aren't likely to be in luck. It's been pushed back before so I don't think it'll be pushed back again. Why? Because the date is likely set by Atari, Cryptic's parent company and if they have a set time that they want their games on the market, that's when they go on the market. That's what happened with CO, that's what will happen on STO. So, putting the game on hold while you add Romulans, full PvE Klingons, ship interiors, etc, just isn't practical.

[JacobFlowers]

My $.02 is that I would prefer an earlier launch with more features added later. It's not like they'll launch it, we'll run the tutorial and then have nothing to do till an update. Similarly, a delayed lauch with more content isn't going to satisfy the powergamer player, since they'll be max lvl in 3 weeks after launch anyway. I'd rather have it sooner, with the main content in, rather than later, and be able to look forward to additional things added in.

Again, just my $.02...

I understand your $.02 :)

Of course things will always be added to an MMO. I just wonder, that if they are so strapped for time, that they can not develop a simple tutorial for both factions... then perhaps this is cause for concern. Perhaps we won't see a lot of 'core' features in at launch. Like a faction reputation system. How can something like that be added AFTER launched... especially when it is a feature dependent on time and accumulation?

I'm in favor an earlier launch if it is well thought out, planned, executed, and will have most core features in place. If it is missing things... then having poor reviews written about your game and a negative reaction i'm afraid does not justify early.

know what i mean?

As a CO player, I'll refrain from commenting on my negative thoughts of the game. However, I will say that I believe that Cryptic has learned from their mistakes and I don't believe they'll have any major problems with STO. That being said, though, all the people pushing for major changes or pushing the game back aren't likely to be in luck. It's been pushed back before so I don't think it'll be pushed back again. Why? Because the date is likely set by Atari, Cryptic's parent company and if they have a set time that they want their games on the market, that's when they go on the market. That's what happened with CO, that's what will happen on STO. So, putting the game on hold while you add Romulans, full PvE Klingons, ship interiors, etc, just isn't practical.

Things like Ship interiors I agree... not practical or necessary. Not by definition a 'core game mechanic'. Adding another faction like the romulans would be sooooooooooooooooooooooo nice... but again, not necessary, plenty of MMOs which have only two factions (although it has been argued that more than two are better).

PvE for Klingons on the other hand... that is ... that is simply not 'OH the two factions play differently'. That is nerfing of epic proportions, and I dont even want to play a Klingon! That simply isn't fair to those who want to play Klingons, to have to go through a federation tutorial, and then not even have the same gameplay features as the Feds?

This isn't a two faction game anymore. It is a one faction game, with a minor faction added as an after thought.

Yes, you are probably right... Crytpic cant make any deicions regarding this, it may be all in the hands of Atari. But perhaps if we can convey the urgency of this matter... a game should not be launched without its core features in place... and if you want to cut corners... dont make them so blaringly obvious as to upset potential players. Maybe someone could tell Atari for us :)

[jerubal]

Seems to be a lot of defensive sounding replies to this thread. Sounded to me like 'I'm not overjoyed the game isn't already released, but there's good recent evidence that taking your time is a good thing.' Which it is, and I agree with the sentiment.
Put in the time and get it right... lest we forget Fable.

I've never been a fan of cawing for immediate releases and updates to things, though... I find it's usually the same people who complain when their badgered-to-release love affair doesn't match their own imagination exactly. I could draw certain conclusions about those kinds of people from that, but I'm not really in the mood to give it more thought.

Does seem a pertinent question about the game, though... this.

[Kaybok]

On the one hand, I don't really care if CO was launched with some bugs and some imbalance because when it was released Jack Emmert and additional attention were placed on STO! :p On the other hand, I would not mind a postponed launch date if STO can be launched relatively bug free and well balanced. I think the time to push for a postponed launch date is not now, but it will be during the closed beta.

Also, another item of concern is Cryptic's next game which is currently a "mystery project". Are they rushing STO so more attention can be focused on their classified game? Was CO rushed so they could put more attention on STO? Or is all this just more forum conjecture and speculation?

I choose to wait until closed beta to see the product then go from there.

[jerubal]

Also, another item of concern is Cryptic's next game which is currently a "mystery project". Are they rushing STO so more attention can be focused on their classified game? Was CO rushed so they could put more attention on STO? Or is all this just more forum conjecture and speculation? Well I'd be encouraged on all points by a delayed Aion release being worthwhile. The money doesn't think creatively (I'm assuming it's the money(investors) that decides these things), it needs a precedent to hang its hat on... *points*
Hopefully they won't be pushing out more products than they can polish just to hedge their bets. It's quality, not quantity... Blizzard only have one online game, last I checked...

[ryuto]

I understand your $.02 :)

Of course things will always be added to an MMO. I just wonder, that if they are so strapped for time, that they can not develop a simple tutorial for both factions... then perhaps this is cause for concern. Perhaps we won't see a lot of 'core' features in at launch. Like a faction reputation system. How can something like that be added AFTER launched... especially when it is a feature dependent on time and accumulation?

I'm in favor an earlier launch if it is well thought out, planned, executed, and will have most core features in place. If it is missing things... then having poor reviews written about your game and a negative reaction i'm afraid does not justify early.

know what i mean?



Things like Ship interiors I agree... not practical or necessary. Not by definition a 'core game mechanic'. Adding another faction like the romulans would be sooooooooooooooooooooooo nice... but again, not necessary, plenty of MMOs which have only two factions (although it has been argued that more than two are better).

PvE for Klingons on the other hand... that is ... that is simply not 'OH the two factions play differently'. That is nerfing of epic proportions, and I dont even want to play a Klingon! That simply isn't fair to those who want to play Klingons, to have to go through a federation tutorial, and then not even have the same gameplay features as the Feds?

This isn't a two faction game anymore. It is a one faction game, with a minor faction added as an after thought.

Yes, you are probably right... Crytpic cant make any deicions regarding this, it may be all in the hands of Atari. But perhaps if we can convey the urgency of this matter... a game should not be launched without its core features in place... and if you want to cut corners... dont make them so blaringly obvious as to upset potential players. Maybe someone could tell Atari for us :)

The problem is that with as long as they've been working on the game if they try to add in full PvE play for Klingons it would probably push it back another year at least. The reason why is that they'd have to go through and re-tailor every mission for two sides as well as program new Genesis missions and who knows what else? The reason, Klingons aren't going to play like the Federation. They don't play nice, they got exploring and find a planet with something interesting on it, chances are they take it if they can. Klingons aren't going to behave a Prime Directive and not bother with a low-tech planet if it has resources they need. They'll exploit it. I'm sure they'll add more Klingon interactivity further down the line but as it stands now the majority of PvE combat is Federation-based with some light 'team-up' raids and other events for both sides to get together on. That's just the way it's going to be since the game is so close to release, I'm afraid.

I remember Jack Emmert stating that one of the problems they had when they released City of Villains for City of Heroes is that it didn't 'feel right'. Essentially they changed some text and felt they just made a cookie-cutter game. He said he never wanted to do that again if he was going to make a game with opposing sides. I think it's probably the same with STO, Klingons as a full faction should feel different from the Federation, the same as Romulans or Cardassians would. So, putting Klingons in now to give some Trek-feeling PvP without having it all be starfleet wargames is a good choice in my opinion. Yes, it'll upset some Klingon players but I'm sure it'll be rectified in time. It's just too much to get finished right away, one thing at a time.

[ODST_General]

As a CO player, I'll refrain from commenting on my negative thoughts of the game. However, I will say that I believe that Cryptic has learned from their mistakes and I don't believe they'll have any major problems with STO. That being said, though, all the people pushing for major changes or pushing the game back aren't likely to be in luck. It's been pushed back before so I don't think it'll be pushed back again. Why? Because the date is likely set by Atari, Cryptic's parent company and if they have a set time that they want their games on the market, that's when they go on the market. That's what happened with CO, that's what will happen on STO. So, putting the game on hold while you add Romulans, full PvE Klingons, ship interiors, etc, just isn't practical.

Negative criticism can be used to help better yourself in the future, game developers are artists and this is vital to their own growth and skills. Not saying start bashing them, but criticism in ways they can better themselves is a good thing.


Personally in recent days I have read comments about things like the stat reset with comments along the lines of we would like to have it but we don't know if we will get it in the game on time, or as mentioned above lack of time to create separate tutorials especially when one group is to be more heavily PvP based. I understand that a publisher will often bind developers and stop them from doing alot of the stuff they want to for a game, this is the case with many many game companies. However many have also pushed back games before to get in a complete and proper experience.

I would love to see the game come out today, but if Cryptic itself is having concerns about the game I would rather see it pushed back then pushed out onto shelves. But in the end it all likely as I stated before falls to the publisher.

[gair22]

Aion is not as polished as those articles make it out to be. At first glance the game 'appears' to be polished, but there are a few lingering bugs that really killed it for me. One of them being, a left mouse click to turn your camera 'randomly' works. Gold spamming in that game is ridiculous. You are unable to petition tickets during certain hours of the day. There has been absolutely nothing to ward off botting. They are so bad in that game, that I ran into 2 bots that were 1 level above me and they somehow made it 1/2 way past level cap already.

The game is a real POS and nothing should be compared to Aion imo. After the first month of launch the number of subs will fall drastically.

[ryuto]

Negative criticism can be used to help better yourself in the future, game developers are artists and this is vital to their own growth and skills. Not saying start bashing them, but criticism in ways they can better themselves is a good thing.

You're right, of course, but if you want to get negative criticism then the CO forums have plenty for you. :) There's no reason for me to sully this board with complaints about a totally different game when its problems have already been well established by others.

[ODST_General]

You're right, of course, but if you want to get negative criticism then the CO forums have plenty for you. :) There's no reason for me to sully this board with complaints about a totally different game when its problems have already been well established by others.

True enough, well Cryptic has stated that they are learning from the bugs in CO and thats helping them to eliminate them in STO, so at the very least Cryptic does have the advantage of working with an engine they are familiar with and in some cases have a head start on the problems that would arise with it.

[ryuto]

True enough, well Cryptic has stated that they are learning from the bugs in CO and thats helping them to eliminate them in STO, so at the very least Cryptic does have the advantage of working with an engine they are familiar with and in some cases have a head start on the problems that would arise with it.

Right, and I have to say that so far it looks amazing. Space combat looks spot on, my only complaint being the shield facings around your ship in-game. It'd be better if they were on the UI with the 'Eggshell Shield' appearing on your ship within the game itself. However, the game isn't even in closed beta yet so its very possible that'll change before release. I'm a little more reserved about ground combat, the videos I have seen make it look a bit choppy and awkward. Again, though, I'm sure it'll improve with time. We'll just have to wait and see.

[shadowsafer]

Sorry, I did not make that distinction in the OP, I hope I didn't confuse you. My intention was to shed light that there are other developers/publishers that are following suit with the idea 'no launch, until fine tuned and ready'.

There have been so many haphazard releases of MMO's, even AAA MMO's as of late, that Aion and NCSoft stand to set a good example. Do you disagree?

Hasn't this always been Blizzards philopshy as well? And look how they're doing. :)

I've played both WoW and I'm playing Aion now, until STO gets launched. It seems one of the key factors to have your game polished for it in order to be succesful.
If you look at all the failed MMO's then their biggest hang up was often the polishing.

In a way part of the polishing is already being done though! Champions Online uses the same engine and all bugs found there are fixed for STO too, so at least engine wise it's being polished as it is. Content wise polishing will still be required, so let's hope the beta testers do a good job on finding the issues there.

[ODST_General]

Yeah the way shields are represented could be improved, it works well for showing their strength and such, But it would feel much more cinematic if they were integrated better, the current setup now kind of bugs me feels a bit to out of place.

As for ground combat, Cryptic has made it sound as if they are/were having a somewhat tough time getting it down, but I am not worried to much since the spit and polish has yet to be applied and there is as you said still time to change it.

[gair22]

I totally agree with integrating eggshell shields instead of how they are currently represented.

[JacobFlowers]

Yeah the way shields are represented could be improved, it works well for showing their strength and such, But it would feel much more cinematic if they were integrated better, the current setup now kind of bugs me feels a bit to out of place.

As for ground combat, Cryptic has made it sound as if they are/were having a somewhat tough time getting it down, but I am not worried to much since the spit and polish has yet to be applied and there is as you said still time to change it.

I totally agree with integrating eggshell shields instead of how they are currently represented.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the reason they instituted the shield facings the way they have is because it is fighting is done on an isometric 2-d plane. There are no dorsal or ventral shields. So I can see why they choose to make the shield graphics that way.

On a side note however, I would like there to be dorsal and ventral shielding. However they have said 'wait till you play it, then you'll understand', So i will have to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

At the end of the day however, I too would prefer eggshell shields :)

Hasn't this always been Blizzards philopshy as well? And look how they're doing. :)

I've played both WoW and I'm playing Aion now, until STO gets launched. It seems one of the key factors to have your game polished for it in order to be succesful.
If you look at all the failed MMO's then their biggest hang up was often the polishing.

In a way part of the polishing is already being done though! Champions Online uses the same engine and all bugs found there are fixed for STO too, so at least engine wise it's being polished as it is. Content wise polishing will still be required, so let's hope the beta testers do a good job on finding the issues there.

True, they have stated that they are learning from the bugs that came with CO and using all of those things to improve STO.

However, this doesn't belie the fact that they are 'running against a timer' so to speak. They have established deadlines which have prevented them from doing something so simple as having a tutorial for both factions.

Additionally many of the problems associated with CO were not bug related. Much of it has been:

Issues with Balance
Lack of Content
Lack of replayability.


Its these three things, not bugs, that pose a threat to a 'polished launch'.

In the end, I feel really bad for the development team. I know they care about this project so much. We know they have a lot on their plates. It must be very stressful for them now.

I do think NCSoft's philosophy however is a better one, take the time needed to develop a well rounded, quality product, that is ready for the masses rather than launch early to meet desirable deadlines.

What do you think?

[Sunborn]

This may be long and a little curt, please don't be offended.

I think that cryptic is being flexible with the release date is enough. Remember it is early 2010, we suspect before the end of March. Beta will tell them what they need to know.

Aion thought they needed to wait to release the game in the west to polish it even though they were running it in other countries? So basically those other countries acted as their quality control team? They get a buggy game so we can get a better one? That does not seem like good business practice. You get one market that has to wait for the game but gets a better product, then you have a market that does not have to wait for the game but gets a less than optimal product. Who is really being served in these cases? Who really comes out on the top? Or more importantly, who really cares? Different game, different company, different needs and circumstances.

I understand what's being said here, but I have to say I don't think it has much bearing on what cryptic is doing. It is their game. They need to focus on what they need to do and not what other companies did. They should keep an eye on the other MMOs, duh, but I want them to focused much more internally.

I'm not sure what purpose a thread asking people if they would be willing to wait serves. The only thing I can image a thread like this doing is stirring controversy and that's exactly what it's doing. Cryptic will release it when they want regardless of how willing we are or are not to wait.

They will listen to the closed and open beta testers, and that will be their benchmark. They will listen to their share holders, and the financiers because thats where they get their pay check.

Lets also keep in mind that every time CO is improved in engine or in server STO is improved too. It should launch far more polished then CO did. No need to outsource their quality control department to paying players.

Short answer: Am I willing to wait up to extra year for a more polished game? My answer does not really matter. It's out when it's out regardless of what any of us have to say about it, and that's when It'll be gotten by my grubby hands. And they are grubby, I can get pics if you want ;)

[ODST_General]

You would be correct shield damage is done on a 2D plane, thats not to say shields cannot appear as an egg shell integration. It could still be split into four chunks, that take out a chunk of the top and bottom for the side that gets knocked down.

Not as if it would change gameplay, just give it better aesthetics.

[JacobFlowers]

This may be long and a little curt, please don't be offended.

I think that cryptic is being flexible with the release date is enough. Remember it is early 2010, we suspect before the end of March. Beta will tell them what they need to know.

Aion thought they needed to wait to release the game in the west to polish it even though they were running it in other countries? So basically those other countries acted as their quality control team? They get a buggy game so we can get a better one? That does not seem like good business practice. You get one market that has to wait for the game but gets a better product, then you have a market that does not have to wait for the game but gets a less than optimal product. Who is really being served in these cases? Who really comes out on the top? Or more importantly, who really cares?

I understand what's being said here, but I have to say I don't think it has much bearing on what cryptic is doing. It is their game. They need to focus on what they need to do and not what other companies did. They should keep an eye on the other MMOs, duh, but I want them to focused much more internally.

I'm not what a thread asking people if they would be willing to wait serves. The only thing I can image a thread like this doing is stirring controversy and that's exactly what it's doing. Cryptic will release it when they want regardless of how willing we are or are not to wait.

They will listen to the closed and open beta testers, and that will be their benchmark. They will listen to their share holders, and the financiers because thats where they get their pay check.

Lets also keep in mind that every time CO is improved in engine or in server STO is improved too. It should launch far more polished then CO did. No need to outsource their quality control department to paying players.

Short answer: Am I willing to wait up to extra year for a more polished game? My answer does not really matter. It's out when it's out regardless of what any of us have to say about it, and that's when It'll be gotten by my grubby hands. And they are grubby, I can get pics if you want ;)

Well, really... I'm not aiming to stir up controversy. On a side note however, I really do wish the Dev's would post a bit more. Seems they've been MIA this week. That's just a side though.

In the end, you are correct. The game will launch when it launches. A couple things however:

Aion launched in Korea and not necessarilly was buggy and dreadful. On the contrary it was met with much success. They delayed launching Aion to iron things out, and to further attune it for western audiences. It wasn't necessarily an intention to make the Koreans their guinea pigs. (NCSoft is a korean company).

Cryptic has given themselves leeway for a launch day. True. All we know is 'early 2010'. But you also say 'they will listen to their testers, and fix was needs to be fixed'. If so, then what on earth was with the big infamous launch day nerf. It upset so many players, and so much of the community wailed that 'this should have been fixed in beta, not launch day'. Additionally, most of the problems regarding CO revolved around:

lack of content
imbalance
lack of replayability


While you are correct, Cryptic will undoubtedly fix bugs that were found in CO that might related to STO. But the above things do not necessarily relate to bug, they relate to development. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anywya, this is just a response. I do concede to you however, this very well may be a worthless thread. But if by some chance they are able to post pone launch for something super special for this reason or that... then at least perhaps they know whether we would allow them a postponement or if we can't be bothered with one. In either case, it might serve a slim chance of helping to inform any decision makers over the deployment of this game.

And dont worry. I wasn't offended. You were far less curt than that one time when you were sick and told me to get a life :p

You would be correct shield damage is done on a 2D plane, thats not to say shields cannot appear as an egg shell integration. It could still be split into four chunks, that take out a chunk of the top and bottom for the side that gets knocked down.

Not as if it would change gameplay, just give it better aesthetics.

I wasn't trying to disagree with you actually, just explaining their possible reasoning. In either case, i agree with you.

Eggshell shields FTW :D

[ODST_General]

Well they have stated they are coming into the home stretch, its safe to assume that they are going into crunch time. While trying to release the beta in addition to get in the stuff they have been struggling to implement for whatever reasons.


That would be a decent reason for a lack of appearance.

[Sunborn]

Well, really... I'm not aiming to stir up controversy. On a side note however, I really do wish the Dev's would post a bit more. Seems they've been MIA this week. That's just a side though.
Agreed. They have been sick, apparently, so I can understand that, but yes. We had a week with a dev post in just about every thread to one ever few days. I think it's left people edgy, it has me.


Aion launched in Korea and not necessarilly was buggy and dreadful. On the contrary it was met with much success. They delayed launching Aion to iron things out, and to further attune it for western audiences.

This is something I dont really understand then and I'll be honest that sor ot business practice confused me a little. If you create a game for one audicance but release it in another to fine to it to the one you were makeing it for... I'm sort of glad Cryptic is based in my own country ;)


....what on earth was with the big infamous launch day nerf. It upset so many players, and so much of the community wailed that 'this should have been fixed in beta, not launch day'. Additionally, most of the problems regarding CO revolved around:

lack of content
imbalance
lack of replayability




Agreed. I am not disputing that the launch of CO allows for some concern over STO. I am simply of the mind that to worry to much about it or to keep looking at it is to succumb to something like 'the sky is falling' mentality.


While you are correct, Cryptic will undoubtedly fix bugs that were found in CO that might related to STO. But the above things do not necessarily relate to bug, they relate to development. Correct me if I'm wrong.

No need for correction. Lack of content is something that is important to think about. Honestly, I am hoping the Genisis program is all it's being made out to be and helps them create a lot of content for release.


Anywya, this is just a response. I do concede to you however, this very well may be a worthless thread. But if by some chance they are able to post pone launch for something super special for this reason or that... then at least perhaps they know whether we would allow them a postponement or if we can't be bothered with one. In either case, it might serve a slim chance of helping to inform any decision makers over the deployment of this game.

It's nice to know your motives more clearly stated. I still pretty much think there no chance we can effect release. Some things they listen to, other things they dont, as it should be when I think about it myself. They seem to be very particular about following there business plan/model to the letter. They say, 'no more klingon info till we are ready' and they are 100 percent serious, not even a screen shot haha.


And dont worry. I wasn't offended. You were far less curt than that one time when you were sick and told me to get a life :p

Haha, we'll I'm glad to hear that I did better this time.


---


Eggshell shields. Give em to me. Keep the disk. Make the disk extreemly transparent so I can see through it no prob, and not even notice it unless I actually want to.

[shadowsafer]

Well, really... I'm not aiming to stir up controversy. On a side note however, I really do wish the Dev's would post a bit more. Seems they've been MIA this week. That's just a side though.

Afaik there is a lot of illness in the dev team atm, so yes they are actually MIA. At least that's what I understood from the latest dev chat. They wouldn't run those with just the community members if there was absolutely no other choice of doing so.

[Dext]

Being that I work in the MMO industry (a very large content network), I get exposed a lot of news and bits from all aspects of the industry, including other games.

For those of you who don't know, Aion is the most recent AAA(top notch) MMO to be released by their publisher NCSoft (the same guys who did Lineage, and currently develop CoX, however it should be noted that Cryptic and NCSoft have no current ties or affiliations with each other). It has been released for over a year in the Asian market, yet they have chosen to delay their launch to the west. This game at its very core with asian elements, was intended for the occidental market.

With this in mind, I found this little tid bit encouraging:



I for one would support Cryptic, if they felt it necessary to push back the launch date (although of my word, it took every once of strength in me to type that!:D).

Best of luck to you Cryptic.

What do you want?
What do the rest of you think? Would you prefer an earlier launch, or would you prefer a later launch to ensure a smooth launch, more polished game, and one that will include many of those things we want that are stamped with 'not at launch'.

I understand NCSoft's initial trepidation about delaying release, but I suppose in the end it has been met favorably. In almost all reviews I've read, it has been praised and rated higher than CO, so perhaps a delayed launch was worth it? We'll see!

NCSoft stands to encourage us, that one developer in the MMO arena has made a decided stand to polish a game and get it right for launch day. We can hope other publishers follow suit.

This has nothing to do with STO or Cryptic so I do not see why you posted this in the STO Discussion Tab. An for some one that says they work in the MMO industry should know where to post thing on a Forum.

[Sandmanjw]

Aion was made for the Eastern (Korean and Chinese) markets first. Those markets are far different from the western (USA Europe) markets. They(east) like much more grindy games with a lot more PVP. And of course the languages:)

It is a huge change to "Localize" (change both the game and language) for the western markets. Basically you end up going through the game changing it from ground up, or making 2 different games at the end.

NC soft gets the majority of their income from the east. But is always trying to make games that will cross over and do well in the west as well. Totally different markets, players, languages, rules. Heh i would not like to try it:)

At the end it makes sense, you start where your main market is and work from there. And by the time you move from East to West, of course you have a more polished game. Which appears to be much more important to western markets.

[Sandmanjw]

This has nothing to do with STO or Cryptic so I do not see why you posted this in the STO Discussion Tab. An for some one that says they work in the MMO industry should know where to post thing on a Forum.

I see a few folks saying this has nothing to do with Sto-Cryptic. Did you read it all? Was clear to me. They are asking if you would like a game that is tested and polished and complete or the normal way they do it in the west. Just make it and throw it out and fix as they go:)

Me, i think companies would do better to wait and put out really well done games. Would not have as many lost customers at the end of the first month.

Using Aion not the best example, as i showed in post above. Since they are mainly an eastern company anyways. But something many companies here in west should try.

[JacobFlowers]

The problem is that with as long as they've been working on the game if they try to add in full PvE play for Klingons it would probably push it back another year at least. The reason why is that they'd have to go through and re-tailor every mission for two sides as well as program new Genesis missions and who knows what else? The reason, Klingons aren't going to play like the Federation. They don't play nice, they got exploring and find a planet with something interesting on it, chances are they take it if they can. Klingons aren't going to behave a Prime Directive and not bother with a low-tech planet if it has resources they need. They'll exploit it. I'm sure they'll add more Klingon interactivity further down the line but as it stands now the majority of PvE combat is Federation-based with some light 'team-up' raids and other events for both sides to get together on. That's just the way it's going to be since the game is so close to release, I'm afraid.

You sir, are exactly correct in all your points. Taking these 'differences' in Klingon style, philosophy, is a GOLD MINE to make STO truely unique. Have two factions in a game? Been there done that (WoW, WAR, you name it). Have two factions that are not carbon copies of each other and play entirely different, even in PvE...

now THAT is NOTEWORTHY, COOL, AMAZING, EXCITING, WOOOW LET ME GET MY HANDS ON THAT!

To say 'thats just the way the game is going to be because we're so close to launch' absolutely breaks my heart. No, not game breaking... but it smashes any ideas and hopes of STO living up to its potential on launch day.

You are right, Klingons are not bound by the prime directive. BOOM, you have PvE content that is unique to that race and how they would interact with the universe. See a planet with tasty dilithium crystals? Conquer it, with 1 player or many!

An alien race intervenes on your behalf? Well, when youw ould normally conquer them, you value the honor in which they aided you, so you go for diplomatic relations with them, etc etc. So do-able.

It seems that the reason they are not including heavily developed PvE into the Klingon side, is not due to their nature, but due to time constraints. Ouch.


I remember Jack Emmert stating that one of the problems they had when they released City of Villains for City of Heroes is that it didn't 'feel right'. Essentially they changed some text and felt they just made a cookie-cutter game. He said he never wanted to do that again if he was going to make a game with opposing sides. I think it's probably the same with STO, Klingons as a full faction should feel different from the Federation, the same as Romulans or Cardassians would. So, putting Klingons in now to give some Trek-feeling PvP without having it all be starfleet wargames is a good choice in my opinion. Yes, it'll upset some Klingon players but I'm sure it'll be rectified in time. It's just too much to get finished right away, one thing at a time.

Jack Emmert is right in his sentiments of CoV. CoH to begin with was 0.5 the standard MMO with no viable PvP or anything. CoH was a separate cookie cutter game that added a PvP element as an 'after thought'.

I personally do not want them to do the same thing. In fact, I would want them to put the Klingons NOW at launch buuut not necessarily recreate the PvE content the feds have for the Klingons, but to completely come up with unique content for the Klingons that cater to their different gameplay styles.

Would that be epic or what?

Instead, they choose to have another 'faction' that is 'unlockable' after completing a federation tutorial but will pretty much be a PvP race and nothing more. (cough cough lame cough).

I don't know. I just feel that there is so much gold yet to be unearthed for this game if they were only able to choose to develop it.

[headlockman]

If the game starts and it doesnt launch smoothly with lots of bugs , problems , ect., it will surely affect the game review scores wich in turn will affect possible future sales of the game. I'm sure cryptic is well aware of the consequences if it does have a smooth launch

[Loekii]

The core of my OP stands: Would you prefer the game to be launched earlier, with features added later, or would you be okay with Cryptic delaying launch to ensure a more smooth launch, greater amount of content incorporated into the game, and to include a few more of the features (either large or small) that have been relegated to the 'not at launch' pile.

That is sort of like asking a small child 'Would you like Vegetables, or would you like Ice cream for every meal?'

In other words, you are asking for 'Wishes', instead of proposing a realistic option.

The reality is that they do not have the option to delay the game until it is perfectly polished. Basically no game has that option.

They do not have the money to fund such a delay. It is easy to stand on the outside and tell them to write checks, when its not your account. We are in a bad recession. Money is not easy to get, and companies are laying off/furlowing people left and right. So to assume that there is a surplus of money available to continue to fund STO, is just unrealistic.

They will push the development for as long as they can fund it, but - like most games - they know they will have to launch something before they go broke. That usually means you get a game that is not completed at launch, but rather is completed a few months later, as they get the revenue needed.

[Kobasa]

I know one other game which decided to rush with lunch, suffice to say Open Beta lasted for 4 months:eek:

After that, they rushed every other update...And after each of those updates they had to bring servers down few days later to fix overlooked bug.

Another update caused major bug and rollback was neccesarry.

Even though I'm anxious to start playing STO, I'd rather wait few months more than fight bugs instead of other faction.

[Faerlzress]

Aion was polished at release in the US because they released it in Korea. The Koreans were the beta testers and their MMO/game market is as big as the US market.

So does the OP want this released in another country like Korea first? After they play it the devs can add some features and a year down the road they can update some things and release it in the US.

[JacobFlowers]

That is sort of like asking a small child 'Would you like Vegetables, or would you like Ice cream for every meal?'

In other words, you are asking for 'Wishes', instead of proposing a realistic option.

The reality is that they do not have the option to delay the game until it is perfectly polished. Basically no game has that option.

They do not have the money to fund such a delay. It is easy to stand on the outside and tell them to write checks, when its not your account. We are in a bad recession. Money is not easy to get, and companies are laying off/furlowing people left and right. So to assume that there is a surplus of money available to continue to fund STO, is just unrealistic.

They will push the development for as long as they can fund it, but - like most games - they know they will have to launch something before they go broke. That usually means you get a game that is not completed at launch, but rather is completed a few months later, as they get the revenue needed.

hahaha 'would you like Vegebles, or ice cream for every meal' haha.

Actually, I'm lactose intolerant, but I'll take the ice cream as long as no one's around and I dont have to go to work the next day :p

Anyway, yes. You are right. On top of all that you've said Loekii, Peregrine made mention that in Atari's last business report (i dont know what the name of it is) it was stated that if Cryptic launches the game before March 2010 or something, then they get a 10million $ bonus.

So yes. You're right. They can't afford the road less traveled. I'll support them anyway, and just hope for the best.

[mrjohng]

I for one would support Cryptic, if they felt it necessary to push back the launch date (although of my word, it took every once of strength in me to type that!:D).

How does one push back a release date that hasn't yet been scheduled? Having said that, this thread seems to be pretty pointless.

[JacobFlowers]

Aion was polished at release in the US because they released it in Korea. The Koreans were the beta testers and their MMO/game market is as big as the US market.

So does the OP want this released in another country like Korea first? After they play it the devs can add some features and a year down the road they can update some things and release it in the US.

Well if you want to release it in another country... then I vote Canada :p jk

Actually, the launch in Korea also went very smoothly. They didnt use Korea as a beta testing ground per se, rather they delayed launch to polish the game for a western launch and enculturate it to western standards. They essentially aimed it for the Occident which took more time. The game was ready for launch, however instead of Sync it with their Asian launch date, they decided to take additional time to make it more palpable to a western audience.

Point being... they choose to wait, rather than rush. :p

How does one push back a release date that hasn't yet been scheduled? Having said that, this thread seems to be pretty pointless.

This thread is not pointless for two reasons:

1) STO is slated for release sometime before Spring of 2010 (NOT that far away).
2) Cryptic is now cutting corners (klingons unlockable, no klingon tutorial) due to 'time constraints' (quoting Rekhan)

[Valikdu]

I seriously hope that the company that will be the releaser of STO will NOT take NCsoft's example with the "local distributor" thing.

[mrjohng]

This thread is not pointless for two reasons:

1) STO is slated for release sometime before Spring of 2010 (NOT that far away).
2) Cryptic is now cutting corners (klingons unlockable, no klingon tutorial) due to 'time constraints' (quoting Rekhan)

1) Is there an official quote from Cryptic anywhere saying that? Right.
2) Chosing to spend time/money on features other than redundant tutorials does not really equate to "cutting corners".

This thread *is* pointless.

[Replica]

I would rather see them extend Beta and have a great game at launch. I've been playing Age of Conan on free trial for the last three dyas, and it's a great game now, but it had a horrible release full of bugs and it will never be the huge game it could have been if it had been polished at release. Same with Vanguard.

If STO needs extended Beta then they could just have it Open Beta, so the fans could still play. If they need some more funds at that point they could have a pre-subscription offer to those in Open Beta. But there should NOT be a repeat of the poorly planned and executed Champions Online release. Everyone here on this forum wants this game to be great, and I think we should remember to encourage Cryptic to make it great, not just "good enough".

[mrjohng]

But there should NOT be a repeat of the poorly planned and executed Champions Online release.

I played in the CO head-start, and at release, and, in fact, still play. These were some minor hiccups, and a lot of whiners on the forums complaining about non-issues, but overall the launch seemed fine to me.

[Sandmanjw]

I played in the CO head-start, and at release, and, in fact, still play. These were some minor hiccups, and a lot of whiners on the forums complaining about non-issues, but overall the launch seemed fine to me.

Do not want to hijack thread:) but all my whining was about real issues:P

Back on topic. Yes, more time would be the best of all worlds:) But we can not know what Cryptics deal is nor there cash/time frames.

As i posted somewhere though, if they had 10 years and 100 million bucks to make the game, it would still not be enough for everyone to like it:) Star Trek IP can be, and is, many thing to many people. So i will hope that i like what Cryptic puts out for us and if so will hang around and wait for it to get fleshed out more as time goes on.

Just want it to be good and profitable game to keep them fully staffed and pumping out the expansions:) Rather than a barely break even game where they have to cut staff and take longer to make it better for everyone possible.

[Sunborn]

As i posted somewhere though, if they had 10 years and 100 million bucks to make the game, it would still not be enough for everyone to like it:)

Absolutely correct! The more money and the more time the company has just means they will eat up that money and time and still not have implemented everything they wanted. Whenever planning a game you think of all the things that would be cool to put in and that usually ends up being more than can be done. Really the process of making games is not about adding ideas for features, but distilling them.

The fact of the matter is that Cryptic has a dead line. Most developers do. STO is in the stage every game gets to where they have all these things they want, but they have to start cutting things off and focus on what they need and what they can reasonably have.

I would rather have, not real numbers, 10 great and fun features in a game as opposed to 20 mediocre and okay features. With that in mind, I would much rather have one really good, tutorial/first few hours of guided game play as opposed to two somewhat sub par or generic ones.

[Suricata]

I'm still drinking my morning cup of Tea, so I won't be writing a wall of text, but i will state that I would definatly prefer to see the game delayed slightly for polish and content rather than trying to push it out of the door, my reasoning being:-


The tutorial is a players very fist impression of the game, it is imperative that its functional, clean and inviting, only having it for one faction really could be game breaking for osme players. Imagine if in World of Warcraft you had to play in the Alliance area's first before you could play a horde.
The reputation system is the core of most medern MMO's these days, from what we are hearing this maybe pushed back until post launch, again, this is potentialy gamebreaking, it feels odd when a system like this is added afterwards, as your charactor has effectvly missed out on the experiance whilst levling, that new players will have.
It's faaar to easy to forget about wanted content after a games launch, alot of the time things that developers want to put in a game become almost impossable after launch due to thier scale and possable balance issues.
Players arn't always very forgiving, if a player has a bad experiance in an MMO, they generally leave and 'never' come back, they tell thier friends about thier experiances as well, thus, its imperitive the games content is as polished as possable as to not scare away customers.
"Slow and steady wins the race", its always better to take your time and finish the job off properly. If I'm hungry, You can bet your life I'd want my food as quickly as possable, but I can assure you, I'd be pretty dissapointed if I got half cooked food because I wasn't willing to wait a tiny little bit longer, what someone wants in the short term isn't always for the best in the long term.


I'm pretty sure the devs want the game as polished as it can be, and it most likely is the investers and parent company pushing the launch, the Devs are now in crunch time as well now, so they are definatly working hard at it, my only hope is that the guys at the top actually get shown the game and forced to play it (I know it most likely will never happen!), or shown a demo of the game, so any developer concerns can be put forward to them in the hope they allow more time for polish, if required.

[Hardac]

...but what is noteworthy (and why i created the thred in the first place) is that Aion has received unprecedented news coverage on the polish and smoothness of their game launch here in the west.

It's not noteworthy because it wasn't a launch of a product that had only seen beta testing.

It's a year old.

Unless of course you want to call what the Korean gamers paid for "beta".

I'd rather Cryptic polish the game then release a broken product. I'm sorry to everyone who's so frothy in anticipation about this but that's how I feel.

[JacobFlowers]

1) Is there an official quote from Cryptic anywhere saying that? Right.
2) Chosing to spend time/money on features other than redundant tutorials does not really equate to "cutting corners".

This thread *is* pointless.

1) Yes, there is an official quote from Craig in one of teh recent interviews, either eurogamer or trekmovie. Also, it was posted in Atari's quarterly financial release document. Right.
2) Most people would disagree with you on this point. See below.

I guess you have not proven that this thread *is* pointless.

I would rather see them extend Beta and have a great game at launch. I've been playing Age of Conan on free trial for the last three dyas, and it's a great game now, but it had a horrible release full of bugs and it will never be the huge game it could have been if it had been polished at release. Same with Vanguard.

If STO needs extended Beta then they could just have it Open Beta, so the fans could still play. If they need some more funds at that point they could have a pre-subscription offer to those in Open Beta. But there should NOT be a repeat of the poorly planned and executed Champions Online release. Everyone here on this forum wants this game to be great, and I think we should remember to encourage Cryptic to make it great, not just "good enough".

I agree. A 'great game' definitely has more of a chance than a game that is 'good enough'.

A game released before it is ready will forever be scarred by the reviews that will be written about it. Those words are never erased, and unfortunately 're-visit reviews' doubtfully have any huge effect on bringing people in. Once the first impression is made, then its made.


I played in the CO head-start, and at release, and, in fact, still play. These were some minor hiccups, and a lot of whiners on the forums complaining about non-issues, but overall the launch seemed fine to me.

I'm glad it seemed 'fine to you'. However you are wrong about the 'minor hiccups'. Reviewers from the most major gaming review outlets gave CO poor reviews and pointed out those 'minor hiccups' in unison. What's more, you read the comments made to those articles and they are filled with players agreeing and lamenting.

Two games that have been recently released. Champions and Aion. Go peruse both of there forums. Sure, Aion has a few issues here and there, but the tone on both are VASTLY different. I'm afraid you are downplaying it.

Do not want to hijack thread:) but all my whining was about real issues:P

Back on topic. Yes, more time would be the best of all worlds:) But we can not know what Cryptics deal is nor there cash/time frames.

As i posted somewhere though, if they had 10 years and 100 million bucks to make the game, it would still not be enough for everyone to like it:) Star Trek IP can be, and is, many thing to many people. So i will hope that i like what Cryptic puts out for us and if so will hang around and wait for it to get fleshed out more as time goes on.

Just want it to be good and profitable game to keep them fully staffed and pumping out the expansions:) Rather than a barely break even game where they have to cut staff and take longer to make it better for everyone possible.

I agree. I was STO to reach its potential to appeal to everyone (as much as possible) and just be a darned good game.

I'm still drinking my morning cup of Tea, so I won't be writing a wall of text, but i will state that I would definatly prefer to see the game delayed slightly for polish and content rather than trying to push it out of the door, my reasoning being:-


The tutorial is a players very fist impression of the game, it is imperative that its functional, clean and inviting, only having it for one faction really could be game breaking for osme players. Imagine if in World of Warcraft you had to player in the Alliance area's first before you could play a horde.
The reputation system is the core of most medern MMO's these days, from what we are hearing this maybe pushed back until post launch, again, this is potentialy groundbreaking, not only that it feels odd when a system like this is added afterwards as your charactor has effectvly missed out on the experiance whilst levling that new players will have.
It's faaar to easy to forget wanted content after a games launch, alot of the time things that developers want to put in a game become almost impossable after launch due to thier scale and possable balance issues.
Players arn't always very forgiving, if a player hasa bad experiance in an MMO, they generally leave and 'never' come back, they tel thier friends about thier experiances as well, thus, its imperitive the games content is as polished as possable as to not scare away customers.
"Slow and steady wins the race", its always better to take your time and finish the job off properly. If I'm hungry, You can bet your life I'd want my food as quickly as possable, but I can assure, I'd be pretty dissapointed if i got half cooked food because I wasn't willing to wait a tiny little bit longer, what someone wants in the short term isn't always for the best in the long term.


I'm pretty sure the devs want the game as polished as it can be, and it most likely is the investers and parent company pushing the launch, the Devs are now in crunch time as well now, so they are definatly working hard at it, my only hope is that the guys at the top actually get shown the game and forced to play it (I know it most likely will never happen!), or shown a demo of the game, so any developer concerns can be put forward to them in the hope they allow more time for polish, if required.

You write with the logic of a Vulcan. Your name sounds like one too. (compliment).

I agree with your points entirely. A good launch is imperative. The market is completely saturated, and people do not have the patience for a shoddy launch. It may have been okay 5-10 years ago when the MMO market was new. But now, people do not have time or money to waste. This industry is established, and if a game comes along and it isn't fantastic, or if its buggy, or if there are issues with imbalance, or if it doesnt have innovative features, then they can easily just move back to a game for which they know is already stable and established both in game mechanics and community.

I'm sorry to say, but the environment isn't very forgiving for new MMOs these days. An outstanding launch is whats needed for a AAA MMO to acheive even moderate success.

[Faerlzress]

Well if you want to release it in another country... then I vote Canada :p jk

Actually, the launch in Korea also went very smoothly. They didnt use Korea as a beta testing ground per se, rather they delayed launch to polish the game for a western launch and enculturate it to western standards. They essentially aimed it for the Occident which took more time. The game was ready for launch, however instead of Sync it with their Asian launch date, they decided to take additional time to make it more palpable to a western audience.

Point being... they choose to wait, rather than rush. :p



Did they say they waited or is that just your opinion? It looks to be big assumption on your part.

Either way it is a non issue. The things most players complain about such as lag, graphics, crashed and so on are already up and running in Champions. Basically STO's platform is running right now.

The launch will be just as smooth as Aion.

[JacobFlowers]

Did they say they waited or is that just your opinion? It looks to be big assumption on your part.

Either way it is a non issue. The things most players complain about such as lag, graphics, crashed and so on are already up and running in Champions. Basically STO's platform is running right now.

The launch will be just as smooth as Aion.

Did you not read the OP? Yes they waited, and no it is not my opinion. Sheesh. Even the tone and diction with which I write does not allow for it seeming as 'opinion'. I'm not some 15 year old know it all in case you wondered. I'm an informed young adult who works with a major content network regarding the MMO industry. :eek:

And yes peopel complained about those things in CO that you mentioned. But they also have been complaining about the Nuclear Nerf Bombs Cryptic has been dropping (a recently decision was made to go into the opposite direction and buff players instead with forthcoming patches), the huge game changing launch day patch which upset everyone, not to mention the issues with balance, and the huge lack of content (which was a problem that arose after one of their 'fix it' patches).

These are not minor hiccups. These are issues major enough for most major reviewers to pick up on it and hash negatively towards the game. My statements are informed.

[gmbosko1]

Did you not read the OP? Yes they waited, and no it is not my opinion. Sheesh. Even the tone and diction with which I write does not allow for it seeming as 'opinion'. I'm not some 15 year old know it all in case you wondered. I'm an informed young adult who works with a major content network regarding the MMO industry. :eek:

Relax tiger, just a message board.


I'm sure everyone wants a quality release, however Aion's recent "MEGA BANNING!" that swiped thousands of non-offending players was a major boo-boo, then customer service was limited for the weekend.


STO should be better than Aion. Why? Kirk demands nothing less!

[JacobFlowers]

Relax tiger, just a message board.


I'm sure everyone wants a quality release, however Aion's recent "MEGA BANNING!" that swiped thousands of non-offending players was a major boo-boo, then customer service was limited for the weekend.


STO should be better than Aion. Why? Kirk demands nothing less!

I wasn't over-reacting per se, but reacting to his posts. Anyway, I see your point.

And I do agree with you. At the very least, we should be aiming for Kirk and Picard's standards.

[Faerlzress]

Did you not read the OP? Yes they waited, and no it is not my opinion. Sheesh. Even the tone and diction with which I write does not allow for it seeming as 'opinion'. I'm not some 15 year old know it all in case you wondered. I'm an informed young adult who works with a major content network regarding the MMO industry. :eek:

And yes peopel complained about those things in CO that you mentioned. But they also have been complaining about the Nuclear Nerf Bombs Cryptic has been dropping (a recently decision was made to go into the opposite direction and buff players instead with forthcoming patches), the huge game changing launch day patch which upset everyone, not to mention the issues with balance, and the huge lack of content (which was a problem that arose after one of their 'fix it' patches).

These are not minor hiccups. These are issues major enough for most major reviewers to pick up on it and hash negatively towards the game. My statements are informed.

So exactly, in your opinion, what defines it as release worthy polished?

The engine works, it is running Champions.

So the only issue would be content issues. Like the ones you speak of above.

It sounds more like they shouldn't change their mind after launch but hang tight for awhile. If people complain, let them.

[Nanoteki]

Cryptic and NCSoft no longer work together on anything.

Cryptic had absolutely nothing to do with Aion.

As such I don't see where anything that happens to/with Aion has anything to do with STO.
/Thread OP is pwned.:p

[Suricata]

/Thread OP is pwned.:p

I fail to see how, the point of teh thread is about releasing a game that is properly polished, which I'd say is extremely relevant to STO.

Also, I fail to see how the OP is 'pwnd', since that is a term in refereance to FPS games where you own someone with a pistol, the weakest weapon in most FPS games, thus the term 'P'wnd is really saying not only did you get owned, you got owned with the weakest weapon in the game.

[masonburrell]

i think that cryptic would only release the game after they got it very polished but the main reason for most mmo releasing too soon i have to say is money. the higher up just see the bottom line and want to release the product ASAP! so far cryptic has proven that it can wait till it's ready. so lets hope they do the same here.

[Zepath]

Lord, some of you need to trim down your quotes ... this is getting out of control.

[Nanoteki]

I fail to see how, the point of teh thread is about releasing a game that is properly polished, which I'd say is extremely relevant to STO.

Relevant to STO hardly given that the game as Preregine pointed out is unrelated to this dev team working on STO. Having a polished STO game upon release is relevant to us, but Aion's release is hardly something we should be cheering about as the op tried to make his "correction" or point in reply to getting pwned. Aion's re-release and polished nature by the op poster later posts admits it had been around for years(in Korea) and thus live polishing has been constantly been on going. In other words in reality all we can actually take from Aion's release as an example is that most games for now on will not be at all polished upon initial release at all.

In fact any palatable game for the fans will undoubtedly be as a result of the fans making their stand and letting the devs know their faults and stupidity known to them vividly by first posting it openly for them to see and having the community chime in. If changes do not occur to satisfy the community at large then they should stop playing and thus paying companies for their **** poor products. Cryptic's parent company should take ****en note of my post if their Harvard business school degrees are worth more than toilet paper to wipe my ass with.

Also, I fail to see how the OP is 'pwnd', since that is a term in refereance to FPS games where you own someone with a pistol, the weakest weapon in most FPS games, thus the term 'P'wnd is really saying not only did you get owned, you got owned with the weakest weapon in the game

Funny for you to bring that meaning of the word pwned since the pwning was done by simply using the op's weak point against him/her.

.

I have nothing against the op in general other than the lack of clear analytical skill in being able to make his actual point. If I understand it correctly his premise is that Aion's polished release can be a kind of industry wide example and thus in how games mmo's in particular are releases and in what "finished" state they is contradictory given my reasons above. The op poster later noted the time frame polishing had been going on. Aion's re-release can hardly be called initial by definition. Would it be nice and welcomed by the mmorpg community for a semi-polished game to be released once in a great while of course, will it happen because Aion's sets a good example(According to the op) not likely. Aion's re-release sets a very poor example to follow in fact if what we want is a polished game upon initial release not a re-release from another region of the world many years later.

Frankly anyone who expects STO to be significantly polished in any of its game mechanics is asking for what is now considered a miracle. STO will be palatable for the majority of the concerned at least long enough for the dev team to continue working on the real finished product in the coming months and years. Given that beta is also being handed out and sold to the highest bidder looking for a thrill and enjoyment could be detrimental for the purpose of beta testing if not enough "real" beta testers are not brought in to give worthwhile feedback other than "give me all the cool looking things across my account characters". STO as it appears is going to simply be a black hole of money for the Star Trek fans who have no other source to get their fill from. That is what Atari executives are betting on as they should given how desperate they are at getting the game out asap before the wider economy finally tanks taking their Star Trek fans wallets first before they have a chance to.

[Sunborn]

Also, I fail to see how the OP is 'pwnd', since that is a term in refereance to FPS games where you own someone with a pistol, the weakest weapon in most FPS games, thus the term 'P'wnd is really saying not only did you get owned, you got owned with the weakest weapon in the game.



Holy crap that makes so much sense. I thought it was just one of those spelling mistakes that became popular. Like people using 'teh' constantly becuase it's fun.

I dont hate the word 'pwnd'anymore.

[cocoa-jin]

Take your time and do it right the first time. Probelm is, the publishers have to be onboard. There has to be a way to make it in the interest of the publishers to wait in order to increase subscriptions, instead of perceiving their finacial interests mainly being tied to the sell of boxes during the initial release.

It may mean allowing the publishers to recieve part of the subscriptions for the first year or more. This would provide them a potential revenue stream which would likly be in excess of the initial box release, a revenue stream that encourages strategies and decisions by the publisher for the long term success of the game.

Nolonger would their intrests be based on hype and sales for that month or that quarter, it'll still be an important aspect of their proceeds, but now they can also see the benefit in insuring a top quality game is released, because their potential for profit increases significantly.

This also levels out their yearly income stream, so they are less pre-occupied by releases dates to make up for their income spurts/spikes caused by only really profitting from each release for short periods right around their release.

This could mean a small increase in subscriptions of $1-2... a publisher's fee which would net the publisher up to an additional $12-24 a year for each subscriber that remains for 1 to 3yrs or more. The publishers wont allow more time out of the kindness of their hearts(they sold them off in glossy Collector's Editionn boxes long ago). The publishers will only delay the release out of the fullness of their pocket books.

[sandman105]

While one may be able to be "encouraged" from the realease of Aion, it is not a brand new mmo. It has been online in Korea for about a year before it was even brought over to the USA. From what i have read, Aion was pretty well updated and patched from its time running in Korea. There is a video on Aion's website talking about this.

[Sunborn]

While one may be able to be "encouraged" from the realease of Aion, it is not a brand new mmo. It has been online in Korea for about a year before it was even brought over to the USA. From what i have read, Aion was pretty well updated and patched from its time running in Korea. There is a video on Aion's website talking about this.

The poster was trying to make the point that by waiting to release it in the USA they made a stronger product.

The problem is that they did not wait to release it, they didrelease it, and they did profit because it was in a different region. Asking Cryptic to wait to release their game because Aion only waited to release it in another region really doesn’t make much sense.

Further the release of a high quality product, Aion, to the USA can be attributed only to the fact that they choose to release it to one region first and make a profit while they improved it for another. It was the fact that they made a profit that likely contributed to being able to relese it. Another thought is that it may not have been destined to come to the USA if it did not do well in the first place.

Really, it’s not a very good example of why Cryptic should wait.

[Nanoteki]

Take your time and do it right the first time. Probelm is, the publishers have to be onboard. There has to be a way to make it in the interest of the publishers to wait in order to increase subscriptions, instead of perceiving their finacial interests mainly being tied to the sell of boxes during the initial release.

It may mean allowing the publishers to recieve part of the subscriptions for the first year or more. This would provide them a potential revenue stream which would likly be in excess of the initial box release, a revenue stream that encourages strategies and decisions by the publisher for the long term success of the game.

Nolonger would their intrests be based on hype and sales for that month or that quarter, it'll still be an important aspect of their proceeds, but now they can also see the benefit in insuring a top quality game is released, because their potential for profit increases significantly.

This also levels out their yearly income stream, so they are less pre-occupied by releases dates to make up for their income spurts/spikes caused by only really profitting from each release for short periods right around their release.

This could mean a small increase in subscriptions of $1-2... a publisher's fee which would net the publisher up to an additional $12-24 a year for each subscriber that remains for 1 to 3yrs or more. The publishers wont allow more time out of the kindness of their hearts(they sold them off in glossy Collector's Editionn boxes long ago). The publishers will only delay the release out of the fullness of their pocket books.

Agreed and the only way for that to happen is for the community at large to discredit any product based on the Star Trek universe that simply exists for the purpose of revenue without regard as to the quality to the of the product being sold. I propose that the wider Star Trek community not purchase STO until reviews by real fans show up or for that matter simply cancel their accounts in disgust of the crap they tried to pass of as Star Trek Online. By the looks of what has been released via their retarded PR cycle I'm not going to be buying any regular or CE editions wit/out lifetime subs until the game's economic and the other faction's game play style is made clearer. There is going to be one hell of an unbalanced game come release if the Klingon faction is being shorted. Even though if I decide to buy and play the game I won't be play as a Klingon initially that faction and thus the game won't be as fun if they are being outnumbered and owned in game as a result of their much smaller numbers due to how gimped their faction content is.

[JacobFlowers]

Agreed and the only way for that to happen is for the community at large to discredit any product based on the Star Trek universe that simply exists for the purpose of revenue without regard as to the quality to the of the product being sold. I propose that the wider Star Trek community not purchase STO until reviews by real fans show up or for that matter simply cancel their accounts in disgust of the crap they tried to pass of as Star Trek Online. By the looks of what has been released via their retarded PR cycle I'm not going to be buying any regular or CE editions wit/out lifetime subs until the game's economic and the other faction's game play style is made clearer. There is going to be one hell of an unbalanced game come release if the Klingon faction is being shorted. Even though if I decide to buy and play the game I won't be play as a Klingon initially that faction and thus the game won't be as fun if they are being outnumbered and owned in game as a result of their much smaller numbers due to how gimped their faction content is.

I have those exact same sentiments myself. Although being slightly impatient, I doubt I will wait to read people's reviews.

Awhile ago I was very excited about this game, and a lifetime sub was A DEFINITE for me. Now, I am not sure anymore.

But you make a good point. Perhaps it would be more logical to even hold off on buying the box at launch and reading reviews before I waste 50 bucks.

[Nanoteki]

I have those exact same sentiments myself. Although being slightly impatient, I doubt I will wait to read people's reviews.

Awhile ago I was very excited about this game, and a lifetime sub was A DEFINITE for me. Now, I am not sure anymore.

But you make a good point. Perhaps it would be more logical to even hold off on buying the box at launch and reading reviews before I waste 50 bucks.

I'm definitely not going to simply buy before I have some idea more or less that I will enjoy the game. I'm not a hardcore everything must be perfect fan, but there is a reasonable level of mmorpg Star Trek/like content that must be made available upon release. A faction being seriously outnumbered because they are not garnering characters in game due to the content being seen/perceived as inferior is something that needs some serious response from Cryptic. Their PR firm or department head/s need to roll if this is not addressed with some clear faction information soon and by soon I mean days not weeks or months as their retarded static PR cycle demands. The start of beta could be a good time for many things to be outright revealed to the wider community and at least clear certain issues up for the community.

I could not seriously enjoy playing a game where the other side posed no real challenge due to simply being outnumbered. Some probably will like that style of one sided battle. I just won't enjoy it and thus won't continue playing or even buy the game at all if their faction numbers won't be close enough for battles to be determined by skill rather than simple unbalanced numbers. I might even start as a Klingon main if the content information revealed in the coming months appears to be of quality and quantity that the faction can become up to par with the larger Fed fan base.:D

[STO_NPG]

Take your time and do it right. Better late than sorrow.