Klingon Ship list theory (debate) [Archive]

MagnusTyrel

10-03-2009, 10:45 PM

Ok instead of just moaning about the huge lack of Klingon content, I thought id make this list that we can try and fill the gaps with ships to let cryptic know just how pasionate we are about these ships and perhaps maby even give them some ideas on what ships/names to use...

Starting Ships? D7
(D7 Variant?)
(D7 Variant?)Lieutenant:

Carrier (Light Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Light Raider) B'Rel
(B'Rel Variant?)
(B'Rel Variant?)Cruiser (Light Cruiser) K'Tinga
(K'Tinga Variant)
(K'Tinga Variant)Commander

Carrier (Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Raider) Raptor
(Raptor Variant?)
(Raptor Variant?)Cruiser (Cruiser) ???
???
???Captain

Carrier (Heavy Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Heavy Raider) K'Vort
(K'Vort Variant)
(K'Vort Variant)Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser) Vor'cha
(Vor'cha Variant?)
(Vor'cha Variant?)General

Carrier (Super Carrier) Vo'Quv
(Vo'Quv Variant?)
(Vo'Quv Variant?)Raider (Maruder) (Larger Version BoP?) please please please be this!
(Variant?)
(Variant?)Cruiser (Battle Cruiser) Negh'Var
(Negh'Var Variant?)
(Negh'Var Variant?)Well thats it, I'd love to see a larger version of the BoP in T4... and I'd also love to see this (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii216/MagTyrel/klingship.jpg?t=1254270782) hull design or somthing similarly differnt from the klingon norm in this list somewere, perhaps a carrier...

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 07:44 AM

Sureley theres some intrest in this? almost 50 views and no reply? :(

erriku

10-04-2009, 07:47 AM

I like your list. Nice guesses there.

Xenoshaft

10-04-2009, 07:51 AM

Loekii

10-04-2009, 07:52 AM

Where will the upgraded D7 Cruisers fit in?

Might we see them, or their profile be a basis for the lower tier carriers?

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 08:06 AM

Where will the upgraded D7 Cruisers fit in?

Might we see them, or their profile be a basis for the lower tier carriers?

Starter ships and then the K'tinga, which is essentially a newer version of the D7.♠

Only issues with your list might be having the B'rel, and the D7 both as starter ships. Because in the Federation list the Miranda, Centaur and the Soyuz all are similar hulls, the D7 and brel are very different. That makes me wonder if the D7 and K'tinga will be in the same class of ships, or whether it will different configurations of D7s, in its class.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 08:14 AM

Starter ships and then the K'tinga, which is essentially a newer version of the D7.♠

Only issues with your list might be having the B'rel, and the D7 both as starter ships. Because in the Federation list the Miranda, Centaur and the Soyuz all are similar hulls, the D7 and brel are very different. That makes me wonder if the D7 and K'tinga will be in the same class of ships, or whether it will different configurations of D7s, in its class.

I thought this too but then thought you cant really put fighters or anything in a B'rel so you couldnt really give it a Carrier role, but then again I guese the configuration could drasticly alter its uses aswell...

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 08:17 AM

I thought this too but then thought you cant really put fighters or anything in a B'rel so you couldnt really give it a Carrier role, but then again I guese the configuration could drasticly alter its uses aswell...

Maybe bump the Brel to the T1 raider, and the Raptor up to T2, since you'd think a raider would be a lot smaller then its equivalent Cruiser as well.

I dont see why the Raptor wouldnt fit the T2 level.

slingbladez

10-04-2009, 08:25 AM

As long as they have Tier 4 BoP's I will be happy with whatever they do.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 08:25 AM

Ok i've slightly altered the poitions of the ships, I have to agree it looks better thanks overlordthor, hopefully some others will jump in here soon and we can fill in some of the blanks or even come up with some cool ship class names...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 08:26 AM

A BoP need to be viable later on. If they're stuck as tier 1 or 2 they probably won't be.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 08:35 AM

Isnt that what the K'Vort is for? a bigger and badder version of the B'Rel... also alot of us hope Cryptic will be making a new larger BoP for the fianl raider teir...

Pyrceval

10-04-2009, 08:37 AM

Isnt that what the K'Vort is for? a bigger and badder version of the B'Rel... also alot of us hope Cryptic will be making a new larger BoP for the fianl raider teir...

Yes, I dont think I could bring myself to fly anything but a BoP on the klingon side...so love the look of that ship...:)

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 08:38 AM

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 08:41 AM

Well then we'll just end up with a ton of BoPs. That's kind of lame. We already have two official ones. One that's tiny and one that's just small. Do we need a third? That would also go against their contour idea.

LOL and federation ships dont look the same at all do they?

I think 3 Types of BoP would be acceptable, after all the Klingons prefer simple mass produced models of ships to fuel there war machine, why fix somthign that isnt broken, jsut make it bigger and badder and ship that badboy out to the masses...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 08:44 AM

LOL and federation ships dont look the same at all do they?

Not their contours...

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 08:51 AM

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 08:53 AM

2 things jump out at me about this.

First regarding your list. Why are you calling the science/support vesels "Raiders"?

Second, Don't forget that we will liekly see Gorn and Orion ships in this list.

The Raiders are the Equivalent of Escorts, not Science ships.

The Carriers are replacing the Science ships.

Oh, and in Starfleet has no other races ship, so we might not see them on the Klingon side either. But I'm thinking we may see some, particularly in the smaller carriers.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 08:55 AM

Particularly since they said there will be other races ships on the klingon side. Why are you trying to shoehorn in Carriers on the klingon side. Seems to be a rather unrealistic expectation to me.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 08:56 AM

The Vo'Quv is listed on its ship of the line page as a "Super Carrier". I agree with where you placed it though, I would just change the classification. Nice list.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 08:58 AM

Its possible we may see some Orion, Gorn, or Nausican ships in this list but I think its more likely that we will jsut see their tech used to enhance the ships instead...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 09:00 AM

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 09:00 AM

2 things jump out at me about this.

First regarding your list. Why are you calling the science/support vesels "Raiders"? Assuming Red is the escorts I would label them the Raider classes. Yellow would be the Cruisers. Green would be the scouts and science vessels.

Second, Don't forget that we will liekly see Gorn and Orion ships in this list.

Because the Devs have said the Klingons have Raiders, Cruisers and Carriers not Science, Escort ships. Source Game Informer October 08.

I'm not convinced that we will see Gorn, Orion or Nausicaan ships as it would mean dropping a klingon hull option from whatever tier they choose to put them in. Remember that each tier/role combination is made up of three ships that resemble the same hull silhouette. Now it is possible they will not use the same patter for the Klingons, but I doubt it, since it would result in even more pandemonium from Federation fanboys about their hull options.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 09:04 AM

What about dropping the D7 down to starter and the Brel as a the Lieutenant raider?

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 09:08 AM

I see 5 in your list that look the same, so your point is mute, also their is alot of difference between teh K'Vort and The B'rel besides the Size ofcourse...

The Wings for one are completly differnt, the armerments are also differnt...

Also jsut because a ship is clasified as a BoP donst mean it has to fill in that clasic shape aslong as at a glance you can say thats a bird of prey then it can really have a differnt hull design or enhancement...

I do understand were your comming from but when you compare a lot of ederation ships they are all teh same jsut slightly bigger with a slighlt differnt shape...

Constitution - Excelsior - Ambasador - Galaxy - Sovy

springs to mind...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 09:12 AM

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 09:13 AM

Here's the contours for Federation ships:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PlayBoxCube/contour.gif

Distinctly different each time. Many of you can probably name most of 'em (Wolf 359 ones being probably the hardest).

Here's the contours for the BoPs (which are all identical except for size):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PlayBoxCube/contourK.gif

Yes they're the same size in that pic but in space and in this game there's no depth perception. imagine if we had like 2-4 of the same looking ship just different sizes. That goes against what they've been aiming for. :p

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. While I'm sure the ships the Devs choose will be more visually distinctive than what your silhouette picture suggests. There are a number of reasons I believe they will be all Klingon ships. The silhouette identification is just one of them.

With Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan additions to the Klingon fleet you have a problem with where to put them. There is not enough room for one of each species in each tier unless you drop all Klingon ships. There is not enough room to put one of each species ships under a specific configuration unless the Klingons are getting more ships than the Feds.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 09:29 AM

What about dropping the D7 down to starter and the Brel as a the Lieutenant raider?

I really think that the B'Rel is going to be the starter ship, it just screeams starter ship to me it ssimple and eligant like the Miranda, It could be T1 but then what the hell would be T0? I cant imagine anythign smaller than a B'Rel class BoP...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 09:31 AM

I really think that the B'Rel is going to be the starter ship, it just screeams starter ship to me it ssimple and eligant like the Miranda, It could be T1 but then what the hell would be T0? I cant imagine anythign smaller than a B'Rel class BoP...

I believe they already revealed in a PC Gamer mag (or another one) that we'll get the D7 as the starter (or other version of the D7). They even showed a screenshot of them.

Norexan-Guy

10-04-2009, 09:39 AM

Yeah I think this is a good idea, I dont know alot about Klingon ships other then the ones you listed. Heh, I think if the do K'vort and a B'rel that t4 should be something a bit more, well more then a BOP- maybe a 25th Centery version. Different lines with the over all out line updated.

That transport was cool.

What about a Fec'Lar (no idea if thats spelled right)

Good luck I cant wait to see what everyone/the devs do with the klinon side.

Fek'lhr was used as a science ship in Armada II and in SFC3. If it remained in a support role (or a variant of a Fek'lhr if it wasn't the Fek'lhr itself) it would have somewhat less science capabilities than an Intrepid but it could be able to match a Vor'Cha firepower through its fighter complement. Tier-3 if that class, or a variant thereof, was used.

However I had hidden in this forum some sort of port and topside view of a ship that could look like a Klingon Tier-2 carrier if anything (except maybe the hull color)

Suricata

10-04-2009, 09:41 AM

Re actually have no clue if the Klingons will follow the same Tier type structure that Starfleet uses, there might not actualy be as many tiers for all we know, infact Klingon ships may have more customisation that opens up as you gain rank, meaning you'll be able to stay with your ship for longer, as opposed to the Federation that change ships with rank, if you see where I am coming from?

I'd have to place ships in the following order:-

Brel
D5
D7 / Ktlinga
Raptor
Vor'cha
Negh'Var
Vo'Quv

You can see the scales of them here:-

STO Ship comparison charts (http://suricatasblog.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/size-comparison-chart/)

I'm hoping they just keep the one Bird of Prey scale wise to be honest.

Mogfire

10-04-2009, 09:44 AM

I've read an article online about the BOP sizes and there seems to be 5 different sizes but only two were ever confirmed, the B'rel and K'vort, but this article does list the BOP sizes in

50m
110m
230m
350m
700m

So it would be very interesting to see if they reuse a BOP variant in more then one tier.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

Phunix

10-04-2009, 09:53 AM

They could come up with an alternate/advanced design for the K'vort but stick to the original spirit of Bird of Prey. Something that makes it distinct from the B'rel.
One drastic design change could be M-shaped wings like the Vo'Quv but larger in surface compared to the ship and no nacelles but weapons on the tips, preferably also positionable.
This way you could even try and go as close to the B'rel as possible for those who want to (customization) but keep that knick in the wing (and slightly different proportions) as give-away that it's the K'vort class.

Azurian

10-04-2009, 10:05 AM

What about a Fec'Lar (no idea if thats spelled right)
Fek'lhr was used as a science ship in Armada II and in SFC3. If it remained in a support role (or a variant of a Fek'lhr if it wasn't the Fek'lhr itself) it would have somewhat less science capabilities than an Intrepid but it could be able to match a Vor'Cha firepower through its fighter complement. Tier-3 if that class, or a variant thereof, was used.

Fek'lhr starship was created by another gaming company. So Cryptic can't legally use it, unless they pay money to use the copyright. Which is doubtful, since it's cheapter to create something else.

What about dropping the D7 down to starter and the Brel as a the Lieutenant raider?
I believe they already revealed in a PC Gamer mag (or another one) that we'll get the D7 as the starter (or other version of the D7). They even showed a screenshot of them.

Na, D-7 would be Teir 1, just like the Consitution.

Re actually have no clue if the Klingons will follow the same Tier type structure that Starfleet uses, there might not actualy be as many tiers for all we know, infact Klingon ships may have more customisation that opens up as you gain rank, meaning you'll be able to stay with your ship for longer, as opposed to the Federation that change ships with rank, if you see where I am coming from?

STO Ship comparison charts (http://suricatasblog.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/size-comparison-chart/)

You forgot the K'Vort, Suri. :p

BTW, why does your Consitution using the Abram's model instead of the Jefferies one? :eek:

I've read an article online about the BOP sizes and there seems to be 5 different sizes but only two were ever confirmed, the B'rel and K'vort, but this article does list the BOP sizes in

50m
110m
230m
350m
700m

So it would be very interesting to see if they reuse a BOP variant in more then one tier.

Well I agree there were BoP Varients, but I'm disagree with Astris's assessment of a 700m long BoP. To be honest, I think the K'Vort being just a scaled up BoP is too bulky. In which her "bumps" need to be smaller and make her more streamlined.

-----------------------------

If you ask me, I think Cryptic might add the D-5 as a second starter ship.

And while thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised instead of the B'Rel as a starter ship, it's a D-12. Then again Cryptic could do like the Miranda / Soyuz and have the B'Rel as a D-12 variant.

Also, "Gorath's Ship" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Goroth%27s_starship) could easily be like a Teir 1 Raider.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:09 AM

I really think that the B'Rel is going to be the starter ship, it just screeams starter ship to me it ssimple and eligant like the Miranda, It could be T1 but then what the hell would be T0? I cant imagine anythign smaller than a B'Rel class BoP...

Size is not everything, look at the Defiant, its only what, 120 meters? A common estimate on lots of the Brel's puts it at 110. Raiders/Escorts are meant to be small ships.

As I said, the D7, see below quote. Its also the first one you really see in star trek, the original Klingon ship, the classic. I'm thinking it might not be the original D7 though, maybe a different size variant of the D7, since the D7, is the precursor to the Ktinga.

I believe they already revealed in a PC Gamer mag (or another one) that we'll get the D7 as the starter (or other version of the D7). They even showed a screenshot of them.

I'd place the Ktinga as the counter to the new version of the Constitution, Excalibur, Vesper.

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 10:12 AM

Someone link the PC Gamer magazine. It's free online since it's old. I can't find it.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:12 AM

Hmmm well perhaps it will be a more retro D5 kinda version of the D7...

Okay i'll alter the lsit acordingly...

Im loving the feedback, and although some of my replies are slightly strong (Not intentional and sorry if it came across as me being arogant) I think this post has the potential to help ease teh Klingon players disapointment by being creative and helpfull to the klingon content situation...

Azurian

10-04-2009, 10:13 AM

I'd place the Ktinga as the counter to the new version of the Constitution, Excalibur, Vesper.

No, more like an updated K'Tinga would be the counter.

Mogfire

10-04-2009, 10:14 AM

Yeah they do make a direct comparison of the D7 to Miranda starter ship in this image:

http://s227.photobucket.com/albums/dd134/sailorcoon/?action=view&current=KlingonD7.jpg

Norexan-Guy

10-04-2009, 10:16 AM

Maybe for lower-tier carriers and the raiders player input could be used...

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:17 AM

Updated list...

Starting Ships? D7
(D7 Variant?)
(D7 Variant?)Lieutenant:

Carrier (Light Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Light Raider) B'Rel
(B'Rel Variant?)
(B'Rel Variant?)Cruiser (Light Cruiser) K'Tinga
(K'Tinga Variant)
(K'Tinga Variant)Commander

Carrier (Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Raider) Raptor
(Raptor Variant?)
(Raptor Variant?)Cruiser (Cruiser) ???
???
???Captain

Carrier (Heavy Carrier) ???
???
???Raider (Heavy Raider) K'Vort
(K'Vort Variant)
(K'Vort Variant)Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser) Vor'cha
(Vor'cha Variant?)
(Vor'cha Variant?)General

Carrier (Super Carrier) Vo'Quv
(Vo'Quv Variant?)
(Vo'Quv Variant?)Raider (Maruder) (Larger Version BoP?) please please please be this!
(Variant?)
(Variant?)Cruiser (Battle Cruiser) Negh'Var
(Negh'Var Variant?)
(Negh'Var Variant?)Lets keep the ideas/comments comming...

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 10:19 AM

You don't have to limit yourself to 13 ships. Supposedly we'll have 16 or so (unless their plans changed).

I'd bet the top tier has the most ships.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:20 AM

USS_Parallax

10-04-2009, 10:22 AM

Yeah I guese, but im hard pressed filling in all these gaps let alone more :)

Most of the gaps will likely be new ships or other race's ships (which in turn will usually be new lol). I can't wait for Gorn ships. I hope they're playable.

So basically the list is impossible to complete.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:24 AM

No, more like an updated K'Tinga would be the counter.

Right, it wouldn't be the original K'tinga from ST6, or ST:TMP, where the Ktingas try to take a shot at Vger. They updated them for TNG, and DS9, they update them again, but use the same basic hull design.

Yeah I guese, but im hard pressed filling in all these gaps let alone more :)

It seems the easiest gap to fill atm could be the T1 Cruiser... sothign that slips in between a D7 at T0 and a K'Tinga at T2?

Drop the K'tinga down to T1

Then it will be up to them to give us a good ship to fill in between the Ktinga and the Vorcha. The counter to the Stargazer and those ships, any ideas?

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:26 AM

So were thinkign K'Tinga will be the constitution counter down in T1?

Makes sense but what would replace it in T2?

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 10:27 AM

You don't have to limit yourself to 13 ships. Supposedly we'll have 16 or so (unless their plans changed).

I'd bet the top tier has the most ships.

Yeah I guese, but im hard pressed filling in all these gaps let alone more :)

It seems the easiest gap to fill atm could be the T1 Cruiser... sothign that slips in between a D7 at T0 and a K'Tinga at T2?

Most of the gaps will likely be new ships or other race's ships (which in turn will usually be new lol). I can't wait for Gorn ships. I hope they're playable.

So basically the list is impossible to complete.

My guess is the three missing configurations from the Federation list are all tier 4 ships one for each role.

Nador_Ekoor

10-04-2009, 10:27 AM

The Federation as a whole use Federation ships, not a conglomerate of vessels. As for the Klingons, they are build in houses so should have a greater choice in hulls. You should have a few Orion, Gorn, and Naussican ships to even things out. I think the Nausican raider will be a light raider, Orions will have science, and Gorn heavier warships to even things up.

I would have thought the Klingon vessels would be farely easy to list though, since Cryptic is going to keep the current line.

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:31 AM

I've updated the list by moving the K'Tinga to T1...

Im still not sure about the other race ship sin the KDF... I still think its more likely we will jsut use the tech to enhance/compliment the klingons...

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Suricata

10-04-2009, 10:39 AM

[COLOR="Wheat"]You forgot the K'Vort, Suri. :p

BTW, why does your Consitution using the Abram's model instead of the Jefferies one? :eek:

I'm still not overally happy with the K'vort scale wise. there are 3 possable sizes for it ranging from 230 - 700 metres from the episodes of TNG that it appeared in, I might add it, but I'm not sure yet, because then I'd have to add the 50 metre long Defiant as well as the 170 metre long version, so for now i'll leave the B'rel as it is, atleast until I finish the K'tlinga and D4.

I've not completed the Jeffories Constituion yet, thats why its not there yet, Don't worry, the Grey Lady hasn't been forgotten! :-)

Azurian

10-04-2009, 10:41 AM

I'm still not overally happy with the K'vort scale wise. there are 3 possable sizes for it ranging from 230 - 700 metres from the episodes of TNG that it appeared in, I might add it, but I'm not sure yet, because then I'd have to add the 50 metre long Defiant as well as the 170 metre long version, so for now i'll leave the B'rel as it is, atleast until I finish the K'tlinga and D4.

I've not completed the Jeffories Constituion yet, thats why its not there yet, Don't worry, the Grey Lady hasn't been forgotten! :-)

I know, the K'vort as a "scaled up BoP" always has bothered me too. That's why I like the models being more flattened out. The models done in Armada and SF3 were done nicely.

But I still disagree on that 700m BoP, I think someone just wasn't accounting for camera angles and distance.

As for a new Klingon ships, I'm working on a D7 varient that I think people might like. Also a BoP varient that's a bit different than the standard BoP design.

Yeah they do make a direct comparison of the D7 to Miranda starter ship in this image:

http://s227.photobucket.com/albums/dd134/sailorcoon/?action=view&current=KlingonD7.jpg

Because they said they blow up easily, doesn't mean they are in the same Teir.

The D7 was the Consitution's Klingon Counterpart and the Consitution is Teir 1. So it's pretty resonable to say the D7 is also a Teir 1 ship.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:43 AM

http://www.startrekonline.com/dyncontent/startrek/uploads/screen_sto_0021.jpg

what about the Orion ship from the screenshot. in the little description "Orion Syndicate raiders lie in wait for unprotected ships. Heavily armed Orion battleships even will attack Federation starships in search of plunder. "

Its called a "Heavily armed battleship" it looks very large, does anybody have any theories on this ship, could it be the cruiser to fit in the "Commander" level in between the Ktinga and the Vorcha.

Or could it be a Carrier, it certainly seems bulky enough to be a carrier? I don't know if people have put a lot of thought into what this ship actually is?

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:46 AM

I'm still not overally happy with the K'vort scale wise. there are 3 possable sizes for it ranging from 230 - 700 metres from the episodes of TNG that it appeared in, I might add it, but I'm not sure yet, because then I'd have to add the 50 metre long Defiant as well as the 170 metre long version, so for now i'll leave the B'rel as it is, atleast until I finish the K'tlinga and D4.

I've not completed the Jeffories Constituion yet, thats why its not there yet, Don't worry, the Grey Lady hasn't been forgotten! :-)

Maybe they'll take the new version of the Constitution, and make it a different class of ship, since its quite different looking?

Their are lots of possible sizes for the Bird of Prey, I'm betting they will pick a few different sizes, some Kvorts even appear to be near the size of 600-700 meters, I think thats from when 2 went with Picard/Enterprise into the neutral Zone, when Enterprise had a defector from the Romulan Empire who was given false information. Pick 2 different sizes, say the 100ish meter one, as the Brel, and the Kvort being 400meterish? I dont kow for sure, its hard for them to have all the sizes, so I'm sure they'll pick a set one for each. I dont think we need 4 different sizes for the same looking Bird of Prey, pick 2 for that look, let the others be a little different looking.

Because they said they blow up easily, doesn't mean they are in the same Teir.

The D7 was the Consitution's Klingon Counterpart and the Consitution is Teir 1. So it's pretty resonable to say the D7 is also a Teir 1 ship.

Well, the K'tinga was also the match for the Constitution and Excelsior, it was what Chancellor Gorkon met Kirk with in ST6, and what the Klingons sent to look at Vger.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 10:46 AM

Archangelwoghd

10-04-2009, 10:51 AM

The problem is that could be a NPC ship as the Orion Syndicate and the Orion species are no longer the same thing.

Gotta go with Varranigan on this...the Orions have pirates of all species. Even Capt. Pike fantasized about joining up with them. Kirk also implied hooking up with them when he stole the Enterprise in ST:III, when he quipped "...in whatever fleet we end up serving..."

Suricata

10-04-2009, 10:52 AM

The D5 is still missing off the list, I'd place it alongside the Brel in Tier 1 and move the Ktlinga to Tier 2.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:52 AM

The problem is that could be a NPC ship as the Orion Syndicate and the Orion species are no longer the same thing.

True, they could have united the Syndicate into the Empire, might not have. Since the Orions are taking over the Syndicate again, and the Orions join the Empire in some way, it is possible it will be integrated in.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 10:56 AM

Also... while I understand this is not the point of your list, I'm curious about the ranks you choose.

While Memory Alpha is not the best source and it admits to its own ignorance on the subject, I can't help but wonder if we will see some of these ranks.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon_ranks

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 10:57 AM

The D5 is still missing off the list, I'd place it alongside the Brel in Tier 1 and move the Ktlinga to Tier 2.

Maybe it will be something like what they did with the Raptor class?

Take the basic hull design, scale it up and make it the Cruiser to go in the T2 category?

Obviously they would have a new title on the ship, and not call it a "D5", but it could be that basic hull design.

Archangelwoghd

10-04-2009, 11:03 AM

Or maybe it gives room for cryptic to design new Klingon ships.

Nador_Ekoor

10-04-2009, 11:04 AM

How many times does it have to be said? The Klingons do not have dedicated science ships. The Devs have already said this.

Klingons don't. But in order to balance the game a little the other sub species could help in this...though none are even close to what the Federation has.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 11:06 AM

Klingons don't. But in order to balance the game a little the other sub species could help in this...though none are even close to what the Federation has.

They have said the entire Klingon faction (and that is what it has been named) uses Raiders, Cruisers and Carriers. No dedicated Science ships. I'm sorry. Unless we hear a new announcement there will be no dedicated Klingon Science ships. That doesn't mean they will not have Science Officers, as that as been confirmed, but they will not have specific ship roles for Science.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 11:08 AM

Klingons don't. But in order to balance the game a little the other sub species could help in this...though none are even close to what the Federation has.

They gave the Klingons carriers instead, like the Vo'Quv.

The Cruisers, like the K'tinga and Vorcha, are the equivalent to Federation ships the Constitution, and Galaxy, capable of doing scientific missions, in fact the Vorcha went on a survey mission in the gamma quadrant.

Loekii

10-04-2009, 11:11 AM

As long as they have Tier 4 BoP's I will be happy with whatever they do.

Would have to be one mean BoP though.

Are you talking about the basic graphic, or something specific? Perhaps it will be a much larger version of the BoP?

As far a Carriers vs. Science, I hope that does not mean that the Klingons will only be assualt based, and not have a ship similar to the Discovery abilities.

I know people hate cross game comparisons, but I am hoping to see Hybrid builds/playstyles like those found in WoW with Druids, Paladins and Priests. I like not being a strong DPS type, but rather playing with a big bag of tricks.

Nador_Ekoor

10-04-2009, 11:11 AM

They have said the entire Klingon faction (and that is what it has been named) uses Raiders, Cruisers and Carriers. No dedicated Science ships. I'm sorry. Unless we hear a new announcement there will be no dedicated Klingon Science ships. That doesn't mean they will not have Science Officers, as that as been confirmed, but they will not have specific ship roles for Science.

Point taken, maybe I jumped the gun calling them Science ships...but all I see with Orions are tiny raiders and not so much combat related...more like support role type ships that could be converted...also the type VII ship was on the Klingon side of the chart if I'm not mistaken...maybe that could be playable at launch...

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 11:17 AM

Point taken, maybe I jumped the gun calling them Science ships...but all I see with Orions are tiny raiders and not so much combat related...more like support role type ships that could be converted...also the type VII ship was on the Klingon side of the chart if I'm not mistaken...maybe that could be playable at launch...

I'm still not convinced we will see Orion, Gorn or Nausicaan ships at launch. It would be cool, but given the ship organization they used for the Feds and the Devs penchant for having the hull silhouette be an identifier of its tier I can't think how they would do it.

Loekii

10-04-2009, 11:20 AM

I'm still not convinced we will see Orion, Gorn or Nausicaan ships at launch. It would be cool, but given the ship organization they used for the Feds and the Devs penchant for having the hull silhouette be an identifier of its tier I can't think how they would do it.

I tend to agree.

Like the idea, but I don't think we will see it.

I am hoping that atleast the NPCs will have unique racial ships. I will be bummed to find out that Orions and Gorn NPCs use the same 'ship', or just another 'KDF ship'. Overall, I am hoping to see the same ship variety we saw in the series, when it comes to NPC/Mob ships.

slingbladez

10-04-2009, 11:20 AM

Are you talking about the basic graphic, or something specific? Perhaps it will be a much larger version of the BoP?

A ship with a strong BoP resemblance and Tier 4 capabilities.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 11:21 AM

Would have to be one mean BoP though.

Are you talking about the basic graphic, or something specific? Perhaps it will be a much larger version of the BoP?

As far a Carriers vs. Science, I hope that does not mean that the Klingons will only be assualt based, and not have a ship similar to the Discovery abilities.

I know people hate cross game comparisons, but I am hoping to see Hybrid builds/playstyles like those found in WoW with Druids, Paladins and Priests. I like not being a strong DPS type, but rather playing with a big bag of tricks.

I do not think we will see Klingons with dedicated science ships or a ship with Discovery's abilities. That being said, I am hoping for unique game play from the Klingon faction. I think it is safe to say after Tamgros' interview with Craig that the Klingon game play will be more combat oriented, but that doesn't need to mean it is more DPS or "assault" based.

I think the key to having engaging Klingon game play is getting into the mind of the culture. As was suggested in the Game Informer article, the Federation and the Klingons will have different ways of dealing with an epidemic outbreak.... where this leaves the Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan I'm not sure.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 11:22 AM

What about guesses on Variants for the ships, Such as an alternative in the same Tier and class for the Brel, with the basic look of the 22nd century Bird of Prey?

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 11:24 AM

I am hoping that atleast the NPCs will have unique racial ships. I will be bummed to find out that Orions and Gorn NPCs use the same 'ship', or just another 'KDF ship'. Overall, I am hoping to see the same ship variety we saw in the series, when it comes to NPC/Mob ships.

I agree on this point, though I'll be honest if we encounter a canon NPC species and they have a unique ship I'll be happy. It is obviously easier to do with some species than others. We've seen a number of Cardassian ships, but during the TNG timeline the vast majority of Romulan ships were Warbirds. While it would be great to find wide variety I could wait to see that kind of variety after launch.

Loekii

10-04-2009, 11:32 AM

I do not think we will see Klingons with dedicated science ships or a ship with Discovery's abilities. That being said, I am hoping for unique game play from the Klingon faction. I think it is safe to say after Tamgros' interview with Craig that the Klingon game play will be more combat oriented, but that doesn't need to mean it is more DPS or "assault" based.

I think the key to having engaging Klingon game play is getting into the mind of the culture. As was suggested in the Game Informer article, the Federation and the Klingons will have different ways of dealing with an epidemic outbreak.... where this leaves the Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan I'm not sure.

Well I certainly hope we do see very different 'themes' in the episodes.

And I do see the obvious differences between science and carriers.

I am curious that is might come down to a breakdown like this (using WoW just as an illustration).

Feds:

Escort = Mage
Cruiser = Paladin
Science = Druid

Klingons:

Raider = Rogue
Cruiser = Warrior
Carrier = Hunter

Now obviously they would not be a direct translation, but I hope it illustrates the point.

Ideally, I am hoping that we might be able to mix up the 'class' of the ship -- different load outs, BO's, Captain Skills, etc -- so that we can all find something close to what we would like to play, and keep everyone else on their toes. I would enjoy not always knowing that a Fed Escort is always a Mage, but rather be surprised to discover its a Feral Druid.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 11:39 AM

Well I certainly hope we do see very different 'themes' in the episodes.

And I do see the obvious differences between science and carriers.

I am curious that is might come down to a breakdown like this (using WoW just as an illustration).

Feds:

Escort = Mage
Cruiser = Paladin
Science = Druid

Klingons:

Raider = Rogue
Cruiser = Warrior
Carrier = Hunter

Now obviously they would not be a direct translation, but I hope it illustrates the point.

Ideally, I am hoping that we might be able to mix up the 'class' of the ship -- different load outs, BO's, Captain Skills, etc -- so that we can all find something close to what we would like to play, and keep everyone else on their toes. I would enjoy not always knowing that a Fed Escort is always a Mage, but rather be surprised to discover its a Feral Druid.

I think your use of WoW classes is a decent run down of how it will shakedown for the ship roles.

Now we do know that an Akira might have more Engineering seats than a Norway which might have more Tactical seats (I don't remember the exact order Rekhan put it in, but I think the example serves), so I do believe there were be some "flexibility" in roles. I'm curious if there will be greater flexibility in tier 4 ships than in tier 1 ships. I'm also curious about the role that various "mods" that have been mentioned will play.

Regardless I do tend to believe that will will see a variety of play styles develop given the matrix of ships, BO skills, Capt. skills and mods.

Magelord

10-04-2009, 11:43 AM

Someone link the PC Gamer magazine. It's free online since it's old. I can't find it.

Here is a Direct Link to the article.

http://www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Oct09_StarTrekOnline.pdf

Kaybok

10-04-2009, 11:44 AM

Gotta love German fans. They have a web site in german & english that lists a few Klingon ships I've never heard of. Some of these may be public domain for STO use: http://www.khemorex-klinzhai.de/faqs/ships.html

K'terenmy Class Destroyer
- Sounds like this would be a Light Raider
- Pics/Descript: http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Kteremny;59510

K'Togh Class Ceremonial Cruiser
- "The "K'Togh" class was never seen in movies, too. It is quite similar to the "K'tinga" class except that its design and equipment is more generous than other ships. They were built for ceremonial purposes and representation. Despite that they still are full scale warships."
- No pics found :(

Greater BoP / toQDuj'a'
- "Various pictures show a very big BoP version, bigger than the B'rel- and K'Vort classes listed in the encyclopedia. A size comparison can be seen in "Reunion": these ships are at least as big as an Enterprise-D or a Vor'cha class!"
- No pics found but apparently seen in TNG "Reunion"

Loekii

10-04-2009, 12:11 PM

I think your use of WoW classes is a decent run down of how it will shakedown for the ship roles.

Now we do know that an Akira might have more Engineering seats than a Norway which might have more Tactical seats (I don't remember the exact order Rekhan put it in, but I think the example serves), so I do believe there were be some "flexibility" in roles. I'm curious if there will be greater flexibility in tier 4 ships than in tier 1 ships. I'm also curious about the role that various "mods" that have been mentioned will play.

Regardless I do tend to believe that will will see a variety of play styles develop given the matrix of ships, BO skills, Capt. skills and mods.

Well I am sort of wondering if each 'class' is sort of like how Talent Builds were in WoW -- in that they have some sort of pattern.

For example:

Feds:

Escort = (Mage)

Saber = (FIRE)
Rapier = (FROST)
Ushaan = (ARCANE)

So will the 'first' class of every 'Escort Tier' follow a similar pattern (ie be FIRE based)?

Suricata

10-04-2009, 12:19 PM

Well I am sort of wondering if each 'class' is sort of like how Talent Builds were in WoW -- in that they have some sort of pattern.

For example:

Feds:

Escort = (Mage)

Saber = (FIRE)
Rapier = (FROST)
Ushaan = (ARCANE)

So will the 'first' class of every 'Escort Tier' follow a similar pattern (ie be FIRE based)?

I don't think it will be like that at all. I'm pretty sure your command tree will determine what skills or abilities you can have, and then the actual type of ship will determine how many of those you can use. For example, A Tier 1 ship may only have 3 bridge officer stations, a Tier 2 may have 4, but the actual ship designation will determine what type those stations are, ie Engineering, Science or Tactical, so within the Tier 1 catagory, you could have different combinations, ie, 2 tactical and 1 science, 2 tactical and 1 engineering or 3 tactical, thus determining what skill types you will have access to, if you catch my drift?

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 12:19 PM

Keep up the speculation and commnets, i'll do a massiv esearch online later after I get back from work and see if I can come up with alist of every Klingon ship available and we can hoepfulyl pick the ones we wfeel would fit well into this lsit...

Keep up the good work, im loving the ideas and coments...

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 12:23 PM

Starting Ship

* D7 (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/52/D7_battlecruiser%2C_profile.jpg)
* (D7 Variant?)
* (D7 Variant?)

Lieutenant:

Carrier (Light Carrier)

* ???
* ???
* ???

Raider (Light Raider)

* B'Rel (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop/bop-calltoarms.jpg)
* 22nd Century Look (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Klingon_b-o-p%2C_Borderland_2.jpg)
* Laneth's variant that kidnapped Phlox (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Laneth%27s_starship)

Cruiser (Light Cruiser)

* K'Tinga (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/15/Constitution_and_ktinga.jpg)
* (K'Tinga Variant)
* (K'Tinga Variant)

Commander

Carrier (Carrier)

* ???
* ???
* ???

Raider (Raider)

* Raptor
* (Raptor Variant?)
* (Raptor Variant?)

Cruiser (Cruiser)

* D5 Look (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e7/D5_class_ventral_cannon.jpg) Updated ans scaled up like the Raptor was? This is very much a guess.
* ???
* ???

Captain

Carrier (Heavy Carrier)

* ???
* ???
* ???

Raider (Heavy Raider)

* K'Vort (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/58/Federation-Romulan-Klingon_stand-off.jpg)
* (K'Vort Variant)
* (K'Vort Variant)

Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser)

* Vor'cha (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/3/3b/Vorcha_fleet%2C_battle_ds9.jpg)
* (Vor'cha Variant?)
* (Vor'cha Variant?)

General

Carrier (Super Carrier)

* Vo'Quv
* (Vo'Quv Variant?)
* (Vo'Quv Variant?)

Raider (Maruder)

* (Larger Version BoP?) Maybe, or an undisclosed look
* (Variant?)
* (Variant?)

Cruiser (Battle Cruiser)

* Negh'Var (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/67/IKS_NeghVar_attack.jpg)
* (Negh'Var Variant?)
* (Negh'Var Variant?)

What about this version?

I also decided to give links to pictures, to give what Io thought would be nice. In the case of the Brel and Kvort, I thought it would be good to give some that are size comparisons, the Kvort at its largest, and the Brel, about the size of the Defiant.

The Negh'var compared to a few Vorcha, and the K'tinga, compared to the Enterprise, in ST6.

I thought maybe the D5 look updated as a cruiser, and increased in size, the same way the Raptor was upgraded in size, as the "T2" Cruiser. (based on http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/klingonships13.png)

I also have 2 possible Bird of Prey variants, from the Enterprise series, they could have those as alternative looks, do you agree? similar to how the Excalibur is like the Constitution.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 12:26 PM

Well I am sort of wondering if each 'class' is sort of like how Talent Builds were in WoW -- in that they have some sort of pattern.

For example:

Feds:

Escort = (Mage)

Saber = (FIRE)
Rapier = (FROST)
Ushaan = (ARCANE)

So will the 'first' class of every 'Escort Tier' follow a similar pattern (ie be FIRE based)?

To guess about how it might work in STO terms:

Fed

Escort T1
Saber (Tactical + 1)
Rapier (Science + 1)
Ushaan (Engineering + 1)

Escort T2
Akira (Tactical + 2)
Zephyr (Science + 2)
Norway (Engineering + 2)

Now imagine that for Escort ships you get + X tactical seats with each tier already, but the individual class gives you a bonus to another area if you so choose.

So if you're flying a Norway you're an Escort (dps?) ship with a Engineering (healing?) bonus.

Norexan-Guy

10-04-2009, 12:57 PM

Let each subset of a carrier tier be called Build 1, Build 2 and Build 3. From there on, say:

Klingon carrier tier 1:

- Build 1: +1 Science, +1 Engineering
- Build 2: +1 Engineering, +1 Tactical
- Build 3: +1 Science, +1 Tactical

Klingon carrier tier 2:

- Build 1: +2 Science, +2 Engineering, +1 Tactical
- Build 2: +2 Science, +1 Engineering, +2 Tactical
- Build 3: +1 Science, +2 Engineering, +2 Tactical

You get the idea?

Loekii

10-04-2009, 01:00 PM

To guess about how it might work in STO terms:

Fed

Escort T1
Saber (Tactical + 1)
Rapier (Science + 1)
Ushaan (Engineering + 1)

Escort T2
Akira (Tactical + 2)
Zephyr (Science + 2)
Norway (Engineering + 2)

Now imagine that for Escort ships you get + X tactical seats with each tier already, but the individual class gives you a bonus to another area if you so choose.

So if you're flying a Norway you're an Escort (dps?) ship with a Engineering (healing?) bonus.

That is what I am thinking as well. Some sort of common theme among Class A/B/C in each Tier.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 01:21 PM

That is what I am thinking as well. Some sort of common theme among Class A/B/C in each Tier.

yeah I think regardless of how much we can customize the "load out" each ship will have it's basic focus and then a supplemental focus.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 01:30 PM

That is what I am thinking as well. Some sort of common theme among Class A/B/C in each Tier.

The question though becomes if the Fed ships break down like this.

Escort - DPS
Science - CC/Repairing
Cruiser - Tank

How will they break down for the Klingons?

Raider - DPS?
Cruiser - Tank
Carrier - Pet/Repairing? or CC? or something else?

I think we can guess that the career paths in Space break down like this:

Tactical - DPS
Engineering - Healing/repairing (Self maybe?)
Science - CC

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 02:12 PM

I don't think we are going to see a bunch of different Birds of Prey filling the Raider list. a K'vort is Significantly bigger than a B'rel. I think we will see those two the same way we see a Connie and a Galaxy but we cant fill the ships lists with stuff that looks identical to each other but just slightly bigger. They are going to ahve to get creeative here. I also don't think we are going to see a bunch of K'tingas, D5s, D7's for the same reason.

There is a wealth of information out there about Gorn ships and Orion ships. just not from the show itself. Adding in Orion ships might be a bit hard since they have no main battlefleet type ships but we may see them in teh Lower tiers. The Gorn on the other hand have a fleet. Big suckers too.

As for this whole Carrier business. the whole thing is going to have to be a support cruiser. Trying to classify them as a hunter is missing the point. they woudl be clsoer to a Warlock at best but problably closer to a CoH Mastermind depending on how the fighters work.

Of course having Carriers as an entire tier of ships is a boneheaded decision in my book. I could see a carrier or two in a support line fo ships but they are going to try and shoehorn in 4 different carriers? That's going to get stupid quick.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 02:29 PM

There is a wealth of information out there about Gorn ships and Orion ships. just not from the show itself. Adding in Orion ships might be a bit hard since they have no main battlefleet type ships but we may see them in teh Lower tiers. The Gorn on the other hand have a fleet. Big suckers too.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is enough in canon and non-canon Trek for them to make Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan ships (don't for get if you make Gorn and Orion you have to add the Nausicaans too).

What is being argued, is that based on the Ship of the Line information they have release for the feds it is unlikely that they can create a similarly organized system for the Klingons if they add ships from the other species.

As for this whole Carrier business. the whole thing is going to have to be a support cruiser. Trying to classify them as a hunter is missing the point. they woudl be clsoer to a Warlock at best but problably closer to a CoH Mastermind depending on how the fighters work.

Of course having Carriers as an entire tier of ships is a boneheaded decision in my book. I could see a carrier or two in a support line fo ships but they are going to try and shoehorn in 4 different carriers? That's going to get stupid quick.

I'm not really sure what you are suggesting. Carriers will not be their own "tier", but rather be one of the roles in each tier. Each tier will have one ship hull silhouette for Raiders, Cruisers, and Carriers and three ships classes based on that hull.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 02:32 PM

*heavy sigh* Yes yes. Set of tiers. class. whatever you want to call it. It's still kinda stupid.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 02:36 PM

*heavy sigh* Yes yes. Set of tiers. class. whatever you want to call it. It's still kinda stupid.

I disagree, I think given the kind of flexibility they appear to have built in, the system is a good mix of versatility and familiarity (with common MMO mechanics).

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 02:39 PM

I disagree, I think given the kind of flexibility they appear to have built in, the system is a good mix of versatility and familiarity (with common MMO mechanics).

A carrier isn't a bad idea. Having an Auxilary carrier isn't bad. having 12 different kinds of carriers that comprise 1/3rd of your fleet is a bit much.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 03:32 PM

* 22nd Century Look (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Klingon_b-o-p%2C_Borderland_2.jpg)
* Laneth's variant that kidnapped Phlox (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Laneth%27s_starship)
* D5 Look (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e7/D5_class_ventral_cannon.jpg)

I thought maybe the D5 look updated as a cruiser, and increased in size, the same way the Raptor was upgraded in size, as the "T2" Cruiser.

I also have 2 possible Bird of Prey variants, from the Enterprise series, they could have those as alternative looks, do you agree? similar to how the Excalibur is like the Constitution, and they are in the same class and teir. The sizes may very well be changed of course.

Does anybody have any thoughts on these?

These 2 designs might be modified and used as Bird of Prey variants.

And the D5 hull design, used as a new cruiser, scaled up of course? Or maybe the D5 could be scaled up and made into a Raider style ship?

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 03:35 PM

* 22nd Century Look (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9d/Klingon_b-o-p%2C_Borderland_2.jpg)
* Laneth's variant that kidnapped Phlox (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Laneth%27s_starship)
* D5 Look (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e7/D5_class_ventral_cannon.jpg)

I thought maybe the D5 look updated as a cruiser, and increased in size, the same way the Raptor was upgraded in size, as the "T2" Cruiser.

I also have 2 possible Bird of Prey variants, from the Enterprise series, they could have those as alternative looks, do you agree? similar to how the Excalibur is like the Constitution, and they are in the same class and teir.

Does anybody have any thoughts on these?

These 2 designs might be modified and used as Bird of Prey variants.

And the D5 hull design, used as a new cruiser, scaled up of course?

The one thing I'm almost certain of is that each "class" will have similar, but not exact variants. This seems to be a key element of their ship organization.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 03:52 PM

The Laneth design looks different than the standard B'rel Design. The 'wings' look fixed and don't end in cannons. It would problably have to be placed as a B'rel Varient though. or possibly a K'vort variant if you made it big.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 03:53 PM

The one thing I'm almost certain of is that each "class" will have similar, but not exact variants. This seems to be a key element of their ship organization.

Right, like the Norway being like the Akira, similar, but not the same class. And the Discovery compared to the Intrepid. Excalibur to the Constitution.

These are two ship very similar to the normal Bird of Prey in the same way.

The designs are basically the same. They said parts from one teir can mix together to create another part, I can easily see the basics of these 2 being traded out, even for parts on the Brel style.

dan6526

10-04-2009, 04:02 PM

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 04:02 PM

Right, like the Norway being like the Akira, similar, but not the same class. And the Discovery compared to the Intrepid. Excalibur to the Constitution.

These are two ship very similar to the normal Bird of Prey in the same way.

The designs are basically the same. They said parts from one teir can mix together to create another part, I can easily see the basics of these 2 being traded out, even for parts on the Brel style.

Yep, so I'm sure we'll see something similar to what you posted above, I just have no idea if they'll use those specifically or not.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 04:04 PM

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 04:07 PM

NO! Flat out no. The Devs have said that the Klingon faction will have ships in the following roles - Raiders, Cruisers and Carriers. This was in the October 08 Game Informer and they have posted nothing to indicated that anything has changed.

They haven't posted much of anything about the klingon fleet. You'r referencing an article made a year ago while all this was still in early development. Carriers as an entire line of ships doesn't sound right. You are talking about 12 differnt ships all carriers.

The Klingons were not exacly known for fighters anyway. They used B'rels for most duties you might expect a fighter to fill. If we were talking about Hydrans then we might be going somewhere with all this. The Klingons have just never had Fighters as a core design philosophy.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 04:08 PM

I think that it may be just a little presumptuous to have Carrier as a separate group like Escort for the Federation. I think that they will end up either as a Cruiser or Escort type (whatever they call them for the KDF) but I don't think we'll see more than two tiers of Carriers, they are typically large ships reserved only for Captains and Rear Admirals.

I dont know, I can see them having a small carrier, which carries 6-12 fighters on it, while a Vo'quv could carry perhaps a dozen squadrons. It wouldnt be a very dedicated Carrier, it has other systems, just like the description on the Vo'quv itself made it sound like it could fight pretty well without the fighters, and had lots of capabilities. The lighter one would have other capabilities, it would be near the same size of its equivalent cruiser, or larger, but doesnt have as much firepower, without its fighters.

Fighters could be a recent acquisition for the Klingons from their new members, the orions, nausigans, or the Gorn. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ship of theirs, or one heavily influenced by them in the Klingon fleet.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 04:10 PM

I dont know, I can see them having a small carrier, which carries 6-12 fighters on it, while a Vo'quv could carry perhaps a dozen squadrons. It wouldnt be a very dedicated Carrier, it has other systems, just like the description on the Vo'quv itself made it sound like it could fight pretty well without the fighters, and had lots of capabilities. The lighter one would have other capabilities, it would be near the same size of its equivalent cruiser, or larger, but doesnt have as much firepower, without its fighters.

I agree copletely with this. It would make sense to have a heavy carrier and a light carrier. You saw that in WWII. Today I don't know that there are very many CVL's around. In the end It would be a support platform. This entire line should be support not specifically carriers.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 04:12 PM

They haven't posted much of anything about the klingon fleet. You'r referencing an article made a year ago while all this was still in early development. Carriers as an entire line of ships doesn't sound right. You are talking about 12 differnt ships all carriers.

The Klingons were not exacly known for fighters anyway. They used B'rels for most duties you might expect a fighter to fill. If we were talking about Hydrans then we might be going somewhere with all this. The Klingons have just never had Fighters as a core design philosophy.

All of the other things that have changed since over a year ago have either been confirmed or they have admitted to changing them.

The fact that the Vo'Quv is a Carrier and the Raptor is described as a Raider pretty much confirms what has been said.

Furthermore, Craig made it very clear in a Dev chat a few months back that the Federation will not have Carriers because they want to keep the factions distinctly different. This is another round about way of confirming the Carrier as a ship role for the Klingon faction.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 04:38 PM

The way the Voy'quv entry is worded it should be in the Cruiser line as teh T4 ship while the Neg'vahr is T3.

BTW The Raptor is labeled destroyer not Raider.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 04:40 PM

The way the Voy'quv entry is worded it should be in the Cruiser line as teh T4 ship while the Neg'vahr is T3.

It says the following at the top -

Super Carrier – Commissioned 2407

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 04:47 PM

It says the following at the top -

LOL

Raptor. Says at the top:

Destroyer; Commissioned: 2397

So which is it? I wold say there was a change in design philosophy somewhere. Teh federation ships they have released do ahve the correct designation. I don't know if they have always had that or if it was just recently updated.

If it was always that way then where does a Destroyer fit in anywhere. normally things go Frigate, Destroyer, Light cCruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Dreadnaught, Carrier.

the Raptor could be the T2 Cruiser ship with teh Voy'quv the T4 Cruiser ship.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 04:53 PM

LOL

Raptor. Says at the top:

Destroyer; Commissioned: 2397

So which is it? I wold say there was a change in design philosophy somewhere. Teh federation ships they have released do ahve the correct designation. I don't know if they have always had that or if it was just recently updated.

If it was always that way then where does a Destroyer fit in anywhere. normally things go Frigate, Destroyer, Light cCruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Dreadnaught, Carrier.

the Raptor could be the T2 Cruiser ship with teh Voy'quv the T4 Cruiser ship.

A destroyer does not preclude a Raider role for the ship. If you look at the Norway it says it is a Heavy Escort. Considering that the text of the Raptor says it is designed for hit and run raids it is safe to assume nothing has changed.

In the Game Informer Article they said the Feds would have Escorts, Science and "Exploration", but it changed to Cruiser very quickly in the development cycle. I believe they even mentioned that the explorer designation in the article being more of a semantic thing, but I could be mistaken on that.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 04:59 PM

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 04:59 PM

The way the Voy'quv entry is worded it should be in the Cruiser line as teh T4 ship while the Neg'vahr is T3.

BTW The Raptor is labeled destroyer not Raider.

Its called a Carrier, in its description, specifically, at the top. Yes, it says its designed to carry more firepower then a Negh'var, but that superior firepower comes from its fighters, in its description, it also talked about it in its fleet support role.

"Its limited weapons and small crew compliment made it a ship for hit-and-run raids rather than extended conflicts."

From the Raptor description.

However, the basic role of a "raider" is much like that of an "escort", Lighter, faster, and more maneuverable ships. A destroyer is generally a small, compact vessel designed primarily or exclusively for combat.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 05:01 PM

"However, the Vo'Quv's main purpose is as a warship, and it should not be considered a support vessel. The Vo'Quv leads the fleet, taking the heaviest hits and dealing devastating strikes in return."

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 05:02 PM

So they changed the wording behind one of the federation ones and it is beyond believability they owuldnt change the wording on the other.

I'm not arguing against having a Carrier in the Klingong fleet. It just doesn't make much sense as an entire line of ships. ESCPECIALLY when you read the description of the Vo'quv. Carriers don't have to be all throughout this line of ships. They should be tactical ships if nto support. They bring tactical optiosn. In this case a fighter would be a tactical option.

Considering they have a ship with Carrier in the name and another with raid in the description I doubt anything will have changed. If they change Raider to Destroyer, I still don't see that they will have changed the role of that ship nor will that suddenly call Carriers something different or change their role.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 05:04 PM

"However, the Vo'Quv's main purpose is as a warship, and it should not be considered a support vessel. The Vo'Quv leads the fleet, taking the heaviest hits and dealing devastating strikes in return."

I just dug out the Game Informer article. It says Carriers will be a hybrid between Pet classes and Tank classes in traditional MMO's. So it sounds like nothing has changed from what you posted above. Carriers are still Pet/Tanks.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Then what the heck are the Cruisers?

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 05:12 PM

Then what the heck are the Cruisers?

Likely pure tanks. Actually if any of those ship roles change I could see it as the Cruisers since it is the only one shared with the Federation. If they changed the name they could easily make Cruisers into something else, but they've not said a peep about that yet.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 05:14 PM

So the Klingons have two tanks and a Skirmisher while the federation has the Tank DPS Support combo.

I can hear teh howls about balance already. I like that they are trying to stick with teh attack attack attack philosphy but this is going to end poorly without some kinda of support options form somebody.

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 05:16 PM

So the Klingons have two tanks and a Skirmisher while the federation has the Tank DPS Support combo.

I can hear teh howls about balance already.

Not two pure tanks, a pet/tank class and what I can only guess right now is a tank class. But the devs have said they are not trying to balance it with equal assets. They've already said that Klingon content will be far more combat oriented. They are going for asymmetrical parity.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 05:18 PM

Not two pure tanks, a pet/tank class and what I can only guess right now is a tank class. But the devs have said they are not trying to balance it with equal assets. They've already said that Klingon content will be far more combat oriented. They are going for asymmetrical parity.

and you believe them? When every other game on the market has failed at this you beleive they can do that? CoX hasn't even done that and won't until going Rougue goes live and they achieve parity.

Manx

10-04-2009, 05:20 PM

Varrangian

10-04-2009, 05:22 PM

and you believe them? When every other game on the market has failed at this you beleive they can do that? CoX hasn't even done that and won't until going Rougue goes live and they achieve parity.

Regardless of what I believe, they are clearly making a game where the two factions are different. How different is yet to be seen, but the ship roles is one area where the released information seems to bare witness to differences.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 05:24 PM

I seem to recall that, in 'Way of the Warrior' (DS9), Worf identified a Vor'cha as an 'attack cruiser'; and we know that Klingons like their forward firepower.

I suspect that Klingon cruisers will have more in common with Federation escorts; and the Raiders will be a few steps beyond them in terms of speed and agility. It is easy to draw parallels between a BoP and the Defiant, but less so with an Akira or Prometheus.

That leaves the Klingon 'tank' role to the carriers.

A Super mobile ship will give an enemy fits but it doesn't really provide a role. Something seems off about the setup here.

Basically it sounds like we ahve a Tank class, a mage class, and a tankmage class

mufti09

10-04-2009, 05:51 PM

Also, the Klingons are going to have Cloaking, which is a huge advantage, so that will be the balancing factor.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 06:33 PM

A Super mobile ship will give an enemy fits but it doesn't really provide a role. Something seems off about the setup here.

Basically it sounds like we ahve a Tank class, a mage class, and a tankmage class

I think your too closely linking this game with other mmos, particularly when it comes to space combat. I attempted to break down the way I think things will be set up, in the Klingon Empire.

The Cruiser, well rounded combat ship, strong forward firepower, good maneuverability, strong shields, fast, decent rear firepower. The equivalent to ships like the Galaxy and Constitution, just not as good firing arcs, still possess alright science/engineering capabilities.

The Raider/escort or whatever the final title will be is a very fast ship, very maneuverable, nice forward firepower, but weak rear weapons(if any), decent shields. Small ship without much science or engineering capability, its pretty much straightforward tactical ship, as for officers, it will likely lack as many science and engineering stations for officers, but have more tactical.

The Carrier is a heavier ship, with good firepower, excellent firing arcs, very strong shields, not maneuverable, slower, possesses some fleet support capabilities, and of course possesses fighter craft. With the fighters, it may very well have the best firepower. I cant say for sure on the sciences and all that as far as officers go, but I'm betting it would have more science/engineering stations.

I'm pretty sure not all carriers will be as massive, as the Vo'Quv, you'll have smaller ones that field only a few fighters by comparison, with some fleet support capabilities as well, but in their "tier" still be larger and less maneuverable.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 06:42 PM

Im trying to link it to the federaion ships which seem to be holding to the way other MMO's are doing things. I personally don't like the holy trinity but it is there and I can't deny that the reason it is so prevelant is that it is effective.

I would normally agree that carriers would have better C3 equipment but I can't see it having that plus a cruisers tank ability plus fighters filling a raider role.

Capt.Socko

10-04-2009, 06:52 PM

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 06:57 PM

Well, with the Klingon Empire being WAY more war like then the Federation... It would stand to prove, that the Klingon ships may be far prepared for combat then the Feds are. just adding my two little cents..

They are honorable warriors. Not mindless berserkers. That is part of the disconenct I am having.

Loekii

10-04-2009, 07:03 PM

I certainly do not want to see classes crossing over -- where you have a Raider easly performing the function of a carrier.

Rather, I would like to see a Raider that has the option of Carrier tendenacies, or even science tendencies if you so choose.

Inquizitor

10-04-2009, 07:06 PM

Huh?

The message you have entered is too short. Please have at least 10 characters or some such.

overlordthor

10-04-2009, 07:07 PM

MagnusTyrel

10-04-2009, 10:47 PM

Carriers are going to be the support ships the fact it sais teh Vo'Quv should not be considered a support ship just means that at T4 its just so awsoem at its main role of owning fedrat ships that its a null point...

But if you look again at its capabilities and statistics you can clearly see that its a support ship with decent hp and fighter support, I wont quote it but I recal it states that it has large bays that can be turned into engineerign bays (Healer role), or they can be converted into additional fighter space (larger DPS)

So the Carriers I would probably lable as Heavy Suport Carriers...

Its very likely that we can pimp our carriers to the point that we remove their fighter abilities and replac ethem with more support abilities (Multiple tractor beams, Sensor scramblers, Energy transfer arrays) etc...

Azurian

10-04-2009, 11:27 PM

Inquizitor

10-05-2009, 12:26 AM

Teh D7 and D5 are not going to be their own classes. Variant maybe. The D7 IS a Ktinga. I dont remember if the D5 is a smaller exact duplicate of the Ktinga or a B'rel clone.

B'rek and K'vort should be able to fill ac ouple Raide roles ratehr easy. Tack on the Raptor for good measure.

Cruisers will likely be K'tinga around Tier 1 Vor'cha at T3 and Neg'vahr at T4 That leaves T2. Posibly a Gorn ship since I caqn't see an Orion ship as a cruiser.

Raiders will likeiy be Raptor at T2 and K'vort at...I guess 3. B'rel I would put here but it's pretty much been confirmed as the T0 ship. Orions will easily fill in some gaps here and it wouldnt suprise me to see another special Klingon Raider at T4

Carriers. I still think is stupid but if they are obsecced with it. T4 obviously is the Vo'yar The rest I have no idea. It's such a departure. Some Gorn ships are certainly large enough to possibly have fighters. I could see the Orions easily having something like this since theiir ships tend not to be huck juggernaughts of doom. so T1 and T3 carriers as Orion shops and a T2 Gorn Cruiser.

So there is my prediction.

Inquizitor

10-05-2009, 12:33 AM

Ill go ahead and throw that up in tablish format

Starting Ships (confirmed somewhere)

* B'rel

Lieutenant:

Carrier (Light Carrier)

* Orion ship

Raider (Light Raider)

*Orion Raiderl

Cruiser (Light Cruiser)

* K'Tinga

Commander

Carrier (Carrier)

* Gorn Carrier

Raider (Raider)

* Raptor

Cruiser (Cruiser)

* Gorn Cruiser

Captain

Carrier (Heavy Carrier)

* Orion Carrier

Raider (Heavy Raider)

* K'Vort

Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser)

* Vor'cha

General

Carrier (Super Carrier)

* Vo'Quv

Raider (Maruder)

* Possibly a new ship design based on Klingon Philosophy

Cruiser (Battle Cruiser)

* Negh'Var

MagnusTyrel

10-05-2009, 07:33 AM

Are you sure about B'Rel confirmed as the starting ship? do you have a link to this information source?

Would help me greatly in compleating this list...

Inquizitor

10-05-2009, 07:40 AM

Are you sure about B'Rel confirmed as the starting ship? do you have a link to this information source?

Would help me greatly in compleating this list...

Not off the top of my head no. I know I read it. Might have changed I suppose. It should be somewhere on these forums. Either a dev quote or in a dev chat. Problably the same place they confirmed the Miranda as the Starting ship for the Federation.

EDIT: well its not in that article. I don't remember where I read it.

Talonsin

10-05-2009, 07:57 AM

Just wanted to say thanks for helping out those of us who are really looking forward to playing the Klingons. I love some of the ideas you have proposed here.

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 10:03 AM

My guess is that some of the Raider positions would be going to Nausicans and Orions, while the Gorn have some of the Carriers.

But as for the Raptor, from her description, she's all Raider. Besides, we got plenty of canon Klingon vessels to take the role of Cruiser:

D5, D7, K'Tinga, Vor'cha, and Negh'var.

True. So I guess what was said very much could be true with the D-7. Guess that would go hand in hand with the TOS Consitution being available for a starter ship.

As for the 700m BoP, I really don't like it. Scaling up a BoP to is just lazyness IMHO.

The Devs were the one that stated that Federation is Escort, Cruiser, and Science, while the KDF is Raider, Cruiser, and Carrier.

The D5s well, they could do something with them like they did with the raptor, createa new design bqased on its hull, scale it up a lot and put it in the game.

And the K'tinga, hasnt actually been the D-7, its a seperate ship class, however, its possible it will fit in with the D-7 the same way the Excalibur is in with the Constitution. Also, I hope the "D7" in the game isnt called the D7, but is an updated version of it with the same old hull build. Because the D7 itself is a little outdated.

Teh D7 and D5 are not going to be their own classes. Variant maybe. The D7 IS a Ktinga. I dont remember if the D5 is a smaller exact duplicate of the Ktinga or a B'rel clone.

B'rek and K'vort should be able to fill ac ouple Raide roles ratehr easy. Tack on the Raptor for good measure.

Cruisers will likely be K'tinga around Tier 1 Vor'cha at T3 and Neg'vahr at T4 That leaves T2. Posibly a Gorn ship since I caqn't see an Orion ship as a cruiser.

D5s are similar to the Raptor class, but cruisers in their era, are more of a combo 22nd century Bird of Prey, and a Raptor class, with its own unique features.
Yeah, B'rel and K'vort fit some roles, B'rel a low teir raider, and the K'vort up in T3(maybe T2, if they put the Raptor at 3, which I doubt), with the Vorcha.

"No one is going to play Star Trek Online to fly around in a shuttle craft. We’ll start you out
in a light cruiser" Quote from a interview with Craig.
Would you consider the B'rel a "light cruiser", I'd call the B'rel a Frigate, Raider, Scout Ship.

Ill go ahead and throw that up in tablish format

Starting Ships (confirmed somewhere)

* B'rel

Lieutenant:

Carrier (Light Carrier)

* Orion ship

Raider (Light Raider)

*Orion Raiderl

Cruiser (Light Cruiser)

* K'Tinga

Commander

Carrier (Carrier)

* Gorn Carrier

Raider (Raider)

* Raptor

Cruiser (Cruiser)

* Gorn Cruiser

Captain

Carrier (Heavy Carrier)

* Orion Carrier

Raider (Heavy Raider)

* K'Vort

Cruiser (Heavy Cruiser)

* Vor'cha

General

Carrier (Super Carrier)

* Vo'Quv

Raider (Maruder)

* Possibly a new ship design based on Klingon Philosophy

Cruiser (Battle Cruiser)

* Negh'Var

I'f your making complete guesses about the other races ships, which are hardly seen on Camera, you might try and throw in the Nausigan's, who have 1 ship on camera at least.

We've never seen a Gorn ship, and the Orions have only been shown in tiny interceptors, and then a screenshot of a battle-cruiser.

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 10:20 AM

Not off the top of my head no. I know I read it. Might have changed I suppose. It should be somewhere on these forums. Either a dev quote or in a dev chat. Problably the same place they confirmed the Miranda as the Starting ship for the Federation.

EDIT: well its not in that article. I don't remember where I read it.

I thought I read a specific quote on the D7 being the counter a while back, but I cant find it.

However, thinking about it more and more, I'm really still thinking it could be the D7. Its a more balanced ship then the B'rel is, the B'rel is straightforward tactical ship, light, fast, with decent weapons, lacks any capability outside of a fight. The D7 is much more equal to the Miranda, its smaller then the Original Miranda, somewhat maneuverable, somewhat fast, decent weapons, shields, but has a bit more crewmen then a B'rel, which has only what a dozen, at most. The D7 is balanced, it can do a little bit of everything, its just a little small compared to modern ships. The Miranda fits in that same area, balanced, but smaller then most modern ships.

Loekii

10-05-2009, 10:37 AM

I think that the Syndicate raiders (Orion) ships we have seen in the series will be left to be Syndicate only, rather than part of the KDF. Same for the NPC Gorn ships.

greglg

10-05-2009, 03:23 PM

I'm quite curious about the design direction Klingon ships will take in STO. Certainly, their function, strengths and weaknesses are of interest, but at the moment it's the shape of Klingon vessels that really have my interest for now.

When you realize there are 39 types of vessels planned for the Federation in STO, it does leave a lot of room for speculation with the ships of the Klingon Defense Force. It might help to consider what are known designs for the Klingons, then see if we can launch into imaginative possibilities from there.

I can think of three main themes when it comes to existing Klingon ship designs. First, there is the classic D-7 look. I've seen a lot of variations on this theme, many of them from FASA's game as well as Task Force's StarFleet Battles from before. There are a lot of ways to play with this basic design theme, and I bet we'll see a lot of Klingon vessels in STO follow this direction. And to be honest, I think they should, given the traditional aspect of the design.

The next theme is the B'rel design. I really like this design, but it hasn't been made use of much in ST lore except for the B'rel and K'vort classes. Hopefully, Cryptic will capitalize on this theme and product a good ten or so classes from it. There's no reason why the B'rel shape couldn't be put to use for a battlecruiser class even. It just takes a sense of proportion and imagination.

The final theme is actually a variant of the first one. It's the Vor'cha design. The basic D-7 shape is there, but where it differs is in the shape of the individual components. This can certainly be expanded as well as far as new ship classes.

One final thought is that given all the existing designs on Klingon vessels, what's to stop Cryptic from mixing and match individual components, so long as there's a sense of proportion and the feel remains Klingon? There are a lot of ways to go for Cryptic to take when it comes to fleshing out the other major player race in STO. It should be interesting to see what enfolds.

Laurelin

10-05-2009, 03:40 PM

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/klingon_ships.htm

Raptor and maybe the D5 could possibly be early variations on the Vor'cha style.

Augment ship is definatly BoP looking.

Goroth's ship is a pretty decent looking variation away from standard Klingon ships.

Weaknesses on Klingon ships seems to be mostly getting attacked from anywhere not in front of you.

Mogfire

10-05-2009, 03:46 PM

Yeah I'm hoping to see a D5 update too. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/D5_class

If they do as good of a job as they did with the Raptor and Vo'quv the Klingon content will very well blow away any of the new federation designs but than again I prefer the Klingon designs over feds anyway.

Lepton

10-05-2009, 03:49 PM

I'd love to see this ship or something like it in STO.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/ivankautter/KronSchematic.jpg

Interdictor

10-05-2009, 03:50 PM

The Klingon side could very well consist of Gorn and Naussican ships as well - it may not be just Klingon vessesls.

I seem to recall devs stating that disruptors have more limited firing arcs than standard phasers. I also seem to recall something about Phasers being better for subsystem targeting, but I'm not sure if that was something a dev said or someone speculating here on the boards - so best not to quote me on either.

From what little we have seen from the Klingons so far, their ships seem to be very maneuverable, and they have more front-facing firepower, whereas they are comparitively weaker in other directions.

WikiUltimate

10-05-2009, 04:22 PM

i want this one http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Insurrection_class ... tis my favoret :)

ghall

10-05-2009, 04:26 PM

This topic is already being covered quite extensively over in the "Klingon Ship list theory" thread (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=27814).

MagnusTyrel

10-05-2009, 04:36 PM

I would love to see Orion/Gorn/Nausican ships in the KDF but I still think its unlikely that we will see them as player controlled ships...

Mogfire

10-05-2009, 04:45 PM

This topic is already being covered quite extensively over in the "Klingon Ship list theory" thread (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=27814).

yes it started off different but is leading in the same direction

doomseaker4

10-05-2009, 04:50 PM

I thought this too but then thought you cant really put fighters or anything in a B'rel so you couldnt really give it a Carrier role, but then again I guese the configuration could drasticly alter its uses aswell...

Personaly I would really love to see both the Raptor and the Bird of Prey as a T4. Or perhaps a version of them.

Sinclair

10-05-2009, 05:02 PM

There are Klingons in this game?

j/k

Good list in the OP. Let's hope we get to see some new starships soon!

Sinclair

10-05-2009, 05:04 PM

I like derivations from the classic design. Its uniquely Klingon. Need to avoid ships of the joint Klingon-Romulan ilk.

DanSeale

10-05-2009, 05:09 PM

I'd like to see some "advanced" Kilngon designs !

:cool:

Kaybok

10-05-2009, 05:21 PM

I think the reason its taking so long is b/c they will need to design new Klingon ships and maybe Gorn, Orion, etc too. I googled for cannon Klingon ships and Starfleet ships are just much more plentiful.

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 05:33 PM

I'd like to see some "advanced" Kilngon designs !

:cool:

What, you dont think there are any advanced ones?

I would love to see the Admiral rank Raider style ship. I'm pretty sure I'm taking the raider style Klingon ships, and also the Cruisers.

I really want to see them, there is a lot of material they can alter to make a few new ships, taken from Ent, TNG, and DS9. ENT, they had lots of variations on looks, easily updated to suit for the game. Their style of ships can have a lot of variation. I am a big fan of pretty much all the Klingon ships we actually see.

Goroth's ship, is an interesting one, not very typical. I wonder if they could increase the size, make some simple customizations, and turn that into a early carrier, using the openings no the back as docking ports.

greglg

10-05-2009, 05:49 PM

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 05:53 PM

Some very cool links to other Klingon ship designs. They all look great too. The funny thing is all I want is a K't'inga battlecruiser, old as it is. The old standard (well, D-7 and D-6 are, but same targ smell, eh?)

From what I heard, the phasers work the shields primarily, then the torps take care of the hull and everything in it. I would suspect the disrupters are the surrogate phaser-type for the Klingons.

I just became aware there was another well-established thread on this very subject. I had searched prior to starting this one, but nothing popped up. Oh well.

I dont know, I might consider some Disruptors a alternative to Torpedo Technology. From both Voyager and DS9, some ships used Disruptors in place of torpedoes, to similar effect. Voyagers D7, and a variety of ships in DS9.

They have some ships to pick from, I want to fly Bird of Prey's, K'tingas, and Vorchas most of all, but they make the Raptor look very tempting. They've got different styles of ships to pick from, ENT gave us a few variants of Bird Of Prey's and light Cruisers.

SenatorPardek

10-05-2009, 06:00 PM

I'm interested to see how the carriers are going to function in-game. Will they be taking the place of the science vessels or will they be serving as the top level cruisers.

Loekii

10-05-2009, 06:03 PM

I'm interested to see how the carriers are going to function in-game. Will they be taking the place of the science vessels or will they be serving as the top level cruisers.

I am speculating, but I think it will breakdown like this:

Escort = Raider
Cruiser = Cruiser
Science = Carrier

I am hoping the lack of a science Configuration, does not mean that the KDF will just be about brute force (ie all DPS/Dam), and not really have some variety that the Feds seem to be getting.

Delta122

10-05-2009, 06:05 PM

I think it would be good to have the same classes of the early timeframes just a refit Version of it, i mean come on we can get rid of the Bird of Prey, or K'Tinga

SenatorPardek

10-05-2009, 06:07 PM

I am speculating, but I think it will breakdown like this:

Escort = Raider
Cruiser = Cruiser
Science = Carrier

I am hoping the lack of a science Configuration, does not mean that the KDF will just be about brute force (ie all DPS/Dam), and not really have some variety that the Feds seem to be getting.

Thats what I was thinking too. Afterall, the developers have said they want the Klingons to have a different play experience. Frankly, I would love to play a carrier type ship for my eventual Klingon character.

DanSeale

10-05-2009, 06:23 PM

What, you dont think there are any advanced ones?

I would love to see the Admiral rank Raider style ship. I'm pretty sure I'm taking the raider style Klingon ships, and also the Cruisers.

I really want to see them, there is a lot of material they can alter to make a few new ships, taken from Ent, TNG, and DS9. ENT, they had lots of variations on looks, easily updated to suit for the game. Their style of ships can have a lot of variation. I am a big fan of pretty much all the Klingon ships we actually see.

Goroth's ship, is an interesting one, not very typical. I wonder if they could increase the size, make some simple customizations, and turn that into a early carrier, using the openings no the back as docking ports.

I think what Cryptic did with the carrier is pretty good ... but more to the point I'd like to see some really sweet cruiser and heavy cruisers for the Klingons... Some where around here I took one of my advanced cruisers and added a few "pods" to create a "science vessel" . At any rate .. frankly I'd love to see more Klingon stuff... (hint hint hint !)

:D

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 06:39 PM

I think it would be good to have the same classes of the early timeframes just a refit Version of it, i mean come on we can get rid of the Bird of Prey, or K'Tinga

The Bird of Prey is very nice, their is evidence of their being 2-3 sizes of the Classic Bird of Prey look.

However, I think 2 will be enough for that ship, the Brel and the Kvort, a small one, and a big one. We've already seen the new version of the Raptor to take one slot give us another style of ship for the other tier. I hope it looks a little different then our classic bird of prey.

overlordthor

10-05-2009, 06:40 PM

I hope they dont have any dedicated science ships, I think the Klingons should handle it where the Cruisers and Carriers have some science related abilities, similar to how Starfleet has the Cruisers that do science missions from time to time.

Replica

10-05-2009, 06:46 PM

I think some of the lag in seeing enw Klingon designs could be related to getting approval from the IP holders in CBS. If this game becomes part of the Trek canon, the the IP holders have a huge stake in design decisions. Future Trek movies or series might need to hold true to and "new" Klingon designs that are introduced in STO.

Varrangian

10-05-2009, 07:58 PM

I am speculating, but I think it will breakdown like this:

Escort = Raider
Cruiser = Cruiser
Science = Carrier

I am hoping the lack of a science Configuration, does not mean that the KDF will just be about brute force (ie all DPS/Dam), and not really have some variety that the Feds seem to be getting.

I've been thinking about this, and I think Carriers might actually help to fight off some of the things that a Science ship can do. One of the roles described in the Ships Overview (http://www.startrekonline.com/ship_overview) page is "control". Now I would imagine a wing of fighters would do a great job at forcing a science ship to the rear of the "battlefield" and keep them at bay.

Inquizitor

10-05-2009, 08:20 PM

I thought I read a specific quote on the D7 being the counter a while back, but I cant find it.

However, thinking about it more and more, I'm really still thinking it could be the D7. Its a more balanced ship then the B'rel is, the B'rel is straightforward tactical ship, light, fast, with decent weapons, lacks any capability outside of a fight. The D7 is much more equal to the Miranda, its smaller then the Original Miranda, somewhat maneuverable, somewhat fast, decent weapons, shields, but has a bit more crewmen then a B'rel, which has only what a dozen, at most. The D7 is balanced, it can do a little bit of everything, its just a little small compared to modern ships. The Miranda fits in that same area, balanced, but smaller then most modern ships.

I dunno. A D7 and K'tinga are the same in my mind. Do you have any picture links of the two? You seems to be seeing something different and it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten images confused. I still think the B'rel makes ALOT of sense for T0. Nothing in more Iconic and it is the workhorse of the Klingon empire.

As for the Nausican ships. I tend to lump them together with the Orions.

greglg

10-05-2009, 09:54 PM

Well, if you take the concept of a science vessel as defined in the UFP and translate it to the KDF, my guess is it would be the scout vessels that would hold the role. For the Klingons, science is only a means to achieving military/political goals, so when it comes to assessing a planet as worthy of colonization, a scout would fit the bill. Also, new phenomenon would be judged primarily from the perspective of threat to the Empire first, then curiosity in terms of economics or military advantage. Whereas, the Feds would send out a science vessel to investigate an anomaly, the Klingons would be likely to send out a warship to assess threat. It all depends on the actual situation, but in cases of benign reconnaissance, a scout vessel would be the ideal choice for the KDF, I feel.

greglg

10-05-2009, 10:08 PM

The Klingons are primarily an empire based on military prowess and conquest. This means they are likely to be at war on many occasions and on more than one front. Those fronts may be small and manageable, but it still means a swath of warships deployed at many points within the empire. With so much territory to be held, often through military force alone, there will be need of an internal security force, or counter-intelligence. These are the ones who seek out enemy spies, rebels and usurpers. This might be a very large force in itself, tasked with dealing with freedom fighters and other types of terrorists. So, the KDF might be a combination of the military and internal security.

Azurian

10-05-2009, 10:40 PM

I am speculating, but I think it will breakdown like this:

Escort = Raider
Cruiser = Cruiser
Science = Carrier

I am hoping the lack of a science Configuration, does not mean that the KDF will just be about brute force (ie all DPS/Dam), and not really have some variety that the Feds seem to be getting.

I disagree with that assessment.

Escorts =/= Raiders. Raiders use Hit-and-Run Tactics, while Escorts defend other ships using heavy firepower.

And Carriers =/= Science ships. Carriers use fighters as part of their offensive capability, while Science ships will use technology to aid them. Like how it's revealed Federation Science ships have an Anti-Cloak Techonology.

Varrangian

10-05-2009, 10:49 PM

I disagree with that assessment.

Escorts =/= Raiders. Raiders use Hit-and-Run Tactics, while Escorts defend other ships using heavy firepower.

And Carriers =/= Science ships. Carriers use fighters as part of their offensive capability, while Science ships will use technology to aid them. Like how it's revealed Federation Science ships have an Anti-Cloak Techonology.

I do not think Loekii's use of = was meant to indicate that they are equivalent to each other. I believe what Loekii was demonstrating was that despite serving different functions, each ship will have a sort of asymmetrical parity with it's cross-faction counter part.

Azurian

10-05-2009, 10:56 PM

tomickle

10-05-2009, 10:59 PM

looking forward to a "real" list from Dev, but this one looks like a great starting point

Inquizitor

10-05-2009, 11:56 PM

They look almost exactly idential, but again the K'Tinga is 120 meters longer than the D7.

Hrm.

Why do I suddenly et the feeling they are going to cut the K'vort? Galxy, Sov, and Constitutions do have the same basic layout but the differences are a bit larger than size... a D7 and K'tinga. a B'rel and K'vort. They look exacly the same. I don't know if that's going to fly.

Drexxus3d

10-06-2009, 12:17 AM

Who says all their ships have to be klingon?

Maybe there will be some orion and gorn ships thrown in there, I don't think klingons would be as restrictive as starfleet in that respect.

Who knows though

overlordthor

10-06-2009, 12:57 AM

I dunno. A D7 and K'tinga are the same in my mind. Do you have any picture links of the two? You seems to be seeing something different and it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten images confused. I still think the B'rel makes ALOT of sense for T0. Nothing in more Iconic and it is the workhorse of the Klingon empire.

As for the Nausican ships. I tend to lump them together with the Orions.

Ok, I dont know about that one guys size estimate of the D7 being 120 m shorter, but there may be a size difference, its hard to tell, the two never appear together, when the Ktinga appears with other ships, its usually behind another ship, or near a bird of prey, which is known for appearing many different sizes. The best comparison we might have is ST6, and even then they arent exactly next to each other.

Estimates on the D7 size is rough as well, it tends not to appear next to other ships, as is common in ToS, and the ship in ENT they encounter that looks like a Ktinga, its not the same ship, just has a similar configuration, so can we really make a good size estimate? Oh, and technical manuals all vary when it comes to these ships. But most say the K'tinga is at least slightly larger.

I honestly could see them being in the same tier, due to their similarities, just like the Excalibur and the Constitution. But I'd prefer them separate, I can see them linked in that way. Plus I hope they relabel the D7, because that class is very out of date, give it a real name, but have it look nearly identical, and drop other hints that its borrowed from the classic hull design, because the term D7, relates specifically to being out of date, and retired.

Ok, and reasons I dont see the Bird of Prey being T0.
1. Its not well rounded
The Miranda is a lot more well rounded. The Bird of Prey is a pure combat ship/
2. The Bird of Prey suits the T1 raider role perfectly.
When you think of a Klingon "raider" what would come to mind, a fast, maneuverable, stealthy ship with strong forward firepower, the Bird Of Prey.
3. The Federation Starter ships are light cruisers, and in an interview they said you'll start with a "Light Cruiser." also, look on the ship of the line page, see "light cruiser" as the starter category.
The Bird of Prey(Brel type), is certainly not a Light Cruiser, its a frigate/scout ship/raider

If you think the D7 doesnt fit as a Starter, then maybe they are both T1, and we have yet to see the Starter, but the Bird of Prey just isnt it, I'm pretty certain, its just too much a raider, its just not as balanced a ship like the Miranda would be, and its not a light cruiser.

overlordthor

10-06-2009, 12:58 AM

They look almost exactly idential, but again the K'Tinga is 120 meters longer than the D7.

I dont know about that much size difference, got any info on that?

overlordthor

10-06-2009, 01:03 AM

I disagree with that assessment.

Escorts =/= Raiders. Raiders use Hit-and-Run Tactics, while Escorts defend other ships using heavy firepower.

And Carriers =/= Science ships. Carriers use fighters as part of their offensive capability, while Science ships will use technology to aid them. Like how it's revealed Federation Science ships have an Anti-Cloak Techonology.

But the Carrier does have support abilities, like converting itself to repair, using fighters, and shuttles and things to assist other ships, that sort of support, while science ships support in different ways.

greglg

10-06-2009, 09:13 AM

Hrm.

Why do I suddenly et the feeling they are going to cut the K'vort? Galxy, Sov, and Constitutions do have the same basic layout but the differences are a bit larger than size... a D7 and K'tinga. a B'rel and K'vort. They look exacly the same. I don't know if that's going to fly.

Klingon design could also be construed as one based on what works. As the saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' ;) In such a case, it would behoove the devs to expand on designs that are based on existent classes. And when you look at a D-7 and K't'inga in detail there is a noticeable amount of difference--in the details. Cryptic could do a similar treatment of the K'vort as well, since we're talking of a discrepancy between vessels that goes from holding 12 crew to 300+!

Suricata

10-06-2009, 09:27 AM

Done some more work on my comparison charts:-

Klingon Ship Scales (http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/klingonships15.png)

For the D7 / Ktlinga scale debate, its pretty apparent they are almost the same size, since the people that created the Ktlinga stated it's meant to be. Also, due to screen evidence from the DS9 Episode Trials and Tribbleations its quite easy to see they are meant to be the same size, theres no way the D7 could possably be that much smaller than the Ktlinga because parts of the ship become inaccessable very fast when you start scaling parts down.

The more I think about it, I believe the D7 should be the starting player ship, the Brel is just to iconic to be a starter ship, also, the fact that its capablities make it almost only capable of combat, I'd say its better as a raider in Tier 1 or even 2. The D7 is just so much better rounded, thus makingit a better start ship. Failing that, you could use the D5 as the start ship, then have the D7 / Ktlinga and Brel and Tier 1 ships, the Raptor would be in Tier 2, then the Vorcha in Tier 3 along with the Kvort, then the Neghvar and Vo'Quv in tier 4.

Inquizitor

10-06-2009, 09:28 AM

Klingon design could also be construed as one based on what works. As the saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' ;) In such a case, it would behoove the devs to expand on designs that are based on existent classes. And when you look at a D-7 and K't'inga in detail there is a noticeable amount of difference--in the details. Cryptic could do a similar treatment of the K'vort as well, since we're talking of a discrepancy between vessels that goes from holding 12 crew to 300+!

WEll I want to see a K'vort. Teh K'tinga and D7 D5 whatever all look the same to me but I KNOW the differnce between a K'vort adn a B'rel . The problem is it isn't visual. WE do know that the devs are trying to make ships recognizable as their class and tier despite customization.

How do you do that with ships that look exactly the same at it's base?

Thanks for the comparison chart as well. It really helps to have the ships all together in one place like that

Suricata

10-06-2009, 09:29 AM

Just to note, the D5 is NOT like the D4,' D7 or Ktlinga like people have been stating for the last page, its a completely different design.

Inquizitor

10-06-2009, 09:31 AM

Just to note, the D5 is NOT like the D4,' D7 or Ktlinga like people have been stating for the last page, its a completely different design.

I see that now. Looks like a K'tinga Drive section with a streamlined B'rel Boom

cipher_nemo

10-06-2009, 09:35 AM

I haven't posted here yet, but good thread! :D Thanks for starting it. I'm sure Cryptic will be adding plenty of Klingon ships even if they've been a bit more quiet about it compared to Federation ships.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/604/lovethisthreadsj7lj9.jpg

piponolo

10-06-2009, 11:53 AM

I have a feeling that alot of klingon ships will be made by cryptic. This is because although we have seen klingon ships before, there is much less variety. Love the post! What was that ship from All Good Things? The two Klingon ones I think were Negh'Var, but I can't be sure.

MagnusTyrel

10-06-2009, 12:23 PM

Defiantly, I dont think I can peronaly think up of enough klingon ships to fill allt hese gaps, even if we were to dig into ships from other startrek games i still think their will be gaps, cryptic has a lot of work ahead of them but looking at the Vo'Quv im pretty confident that they will do a good job with them...

Suricata

10-06-2009, 12:49 PM

Has anyone else noticed the Vo'Quv actually has the 'exact' same nacelles as the D5 class cruiser (which is about 9 times smaller)? Its actually got a very smiliar head section as well.

Loekii

10-06-2009, 01:44 PM

I do not think Loekii's use of = was meant to indicate that they are equivalent to each other. I believe what Loekii was demonstrating was that despite serving different functions, each ship will have a sort of asymmetrical parity with it's cross-faction counter part.

Exactly.

We know that Fed and Klingon gameplay will be different, and that their ship roles will be different as well. There will be some cross over (shared aspects), but in general, KDF will not be Fed Ships with Klingon skins, so to speak.

Has anyone else noticed the Vo'Quv actually has the 'exact' same nacelles as the D5 class cruiser (which is about 9 times smaller)? Its actually got a very smiliar head section as well.

It has a SFB feel to it, imo.

GozerTC

10-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Well as long as they're not all just updated versions of Starfleet Battles ships (I.e. a B10, C8, D7, E6, F5 and the like) I'll be happy. :)

Though I would enjoy a good old D7 for a while so I totally agree that it's probably a starter ship. Though that could mean they just do D7, E6, and F5's from SFB or some variants there of for newbie ships. :\

MagnusTyrel

10-06-2009, 03:46 PM

So we are pretty sure that the list i've posted is a good base to start from...

anyone else have any suggestions for new ships or differnt locations? has anyone found some obsucre Klingon ship that its considered cannonthat we have forgoten about?

Azurian

10-06-2009, 04:36 PM

Has anyone else noticed the Vo'Quv actually has the 'exact' same nacelles as the D5 class cruiser (which is about 9 times smaller)? Its actually got a very smiliar head section as well.

Same design, but not the same exact nacelles. :p

But if you look at the Vo'Quv, it is a D5 on serious steriods.

MagnusTyrel

10-07-2009, 11:03 AM

Same design, but not the same exact nacelles. :p

But if you look at the Vo'Quv, it is a D5 on serious steriods.

I imagine alot of the Klingon ships have similar types of hull pieces, seeing as the klingons tend to focus on mass production for their ships I imagine many parts would be interchangeable between different classes...

IG_Slayer

10-07-2009, 11:10 AM

Yeah I can't wait till Cryptic releases the Klingon ship line up!

Azurian

10-07-2009, 11:12 AM

I imagine alot of the Klingon ships have similar types of hull pieces, seeing as the klingons tend to focus on mass production for their ships I imagine many parts would be interchangeable between different classes...

You realize that the D5 is over 250 years old, and somewhere around 200 meters long, while the Vo'Quv is a new starship and listed well over 1,200 meters long.

That's why I don't say it's the same exact nacelle, it's just a similarly designed nacelle. ;)

MagnusTyrel

10-07-2009, 11:14 AM

well ofcourse those two examples are different, but i think the designs would be similar, Klingons tend to stick with whot works :)

Inquizitor

10-18-2009, 06:50 PM

Good grief Page 30?

Anywho I was talking wiht a friend of mine about the latest information about STO. One topic was the Ship lists and I mentioned we didnt know much about the Klingon list yet. I rattled off a few of the well known ones here then he mentioned the Fek'lihr.

I forgot all about this particular one. I also noticed it wasn't on the list here. Where would you guys say it would even go?

USS_Parallax

10-18-2009, 06:54 PM

I doubt we'll see more than one version of the Bird of Prey and D7 or any ship for that matter that is playable.

Inquizitor

10-18-2009, 06:57 PM

I doubt we'll see more than one version of the Bird of Prey and D7 or any ship for that matter that is playable.

I'm wondering abou tthat for the B'rel and L'vort. I imagine as far as the D7 is concerned it will be a variant of the K'tinga.

shadows802

10-18-2009, 10:09 PM

Feds - Klingons
Escorts - Raiders
Cruisers - Cruisers
/ \
Science Carriers

I think this is how the ship roles play out across fed/klingon. However from reading the articles it doesn't seem to be a perfect counter-anti counter system instead it relies upon the combination of vessels and usage of them(i.e tatics) which I do hope works out.
But, cruisers are capable of taking a pounding they have larger crew complimants which could be boarding parties or could help a fellow ship in distress(it hasnt mentioned that you could send crew to assist a friendly ship but it seems logical if you have boarding parties) to replenish crew stocks and help with repairs, they also have huge energy reserves that have been said to be able to transfer to friendly ships giving them a very supportive role. Escorts and raiders are clearly designed to give out punishment fitting into a traditional DPs role.
But as far as Science /carriers are concerned, I think they are added for the factions distinct culture. Klingons being more agressive gets the carriers with fighters (sharing charectistics like the Tank/pet) and the more "Enlightened" Fedration gets a science ship. NOw science could counter carriers (notice the formatting) with superior sensors and various disrupt could put as a suport/flak role( i think somewhere nebula(even though its not in the game) was mentioned to have point defense phasers, that could easily go to other science vessels and used as a antifighter) They are obviously not equivlant.

shadows802

10-18-2009, 10:13 PM

That is with quite abit of assumptions that we have no clue of.

MagnusTyrel

10-18-2009, 10:36 PM

Science ships can spot cloaked vessels and get free hull shots, hardly call that underpowered compaired to a carrier...

Also science ships aint weak the Intrepid is considered a science vessel and we all know how badass that is :)

shadows802

10-18-2009, 11:16 PM

Magnus where responding to me cause if you where..

when "i said obviously not equivelant" didnt mean it as "science vesssels are weak compared to carriers" they could counter each other but in totally different ways. With the Carriers going for full-on assualt with fighter hull point and the works and the science ships taking a more "creative" way.

emery0

10-19-2009, 02:16 AM

I can not see the Klingon's having 39 ships for the 5 tiers. All I can find are listed as cruisers or warships they are very light on science vessels.
Best I can see is 3 per level, but no clue what the science would be maybe D4/D5 types.

My 2¢ on ships & tiers.

Lieutenant
Bird-of-Prey
??
D7 class

Lieutenant Commander
D12-class
??
K't'inga class

Commander
B'rel-class
??
Vor'cha class

Captain
Raptor class
??
Negh'Var class

Admiral
K'vort-class
??
Vo'Quv class

Hseeker

10-19-2009, 03:08 AM

I have a feeling that klingons will have less "lego parts" to play with then the federation ships.
Its a shame ST never realy went into a more detail ship design for klingons in the series.

Arokh72

10-19-2009, 03:14 AM

I have a feeling that klingons will have less "lego parts" to play with then the federation ships.
Its a shame ST never realy went into a more detail ship design for klingons in the series.

This is the perfect time and place to explore such things.

Nalah

10-19-2009, 03:45 AM

I do not know if it was brought up in the many pages of replies, but I believe the D7/K'tinga was referred to as a destroyer in one of the ST:TNG or later (timeline-wise) shows.

vegetta

10-19-2009, 05:16 AM

Sureley theres some intrest in this? almost 50 views and no reply? :(

Well personally I dont know nearly enough about the different types of klingon ships to really comment on this :p

Kriss

10-19-2009, 07:52 AM

Well personally I dont know nearly enough about the different types of klingon ships to really comment on this :p

WHY do we need to **debate** on this? Why can't Cryptic simply give us the damn ship information?

.....Silly me, I always forget! They just haven't done much for the Klingon side of the game....yet. :o

BioDragon

12-06-2009, 04:55 AM

Wow... so much ship information I have to forget and unlearn, as I used to play so much SFB...

TheDeadlyShoe

12-06-2009, 04:57 AM

Why on earth would you bump this.

Ahrg.

MagnusTyrel

12-06-2009, 05:03 AM

necro ftw!

cipher_nemo

12-06-2009, 09:26 AM

Yes, please don't necro two-month old threads. Time to move on. :)

rick273

12-06-2009, 12:32 PM

Teir 1
Bird of Prey - B'rel????
Bird of Prey
Bird of Prey

Teir 2
Light Raider
Bird of Prey
Bird of Prey (variant)
Bird of Prey? (variant)

Light Assault
Raptor
Raptor (variant)
Raptor? (variant)

Teir 3
Raider
Bird of Prey
Bird of Prey (variant)
Bird of Prey? (variant)

Assault
Raptor
Raptor (variant)
Raptor? (variant)

Cruiser
Vor'cha
Vor'cha (variant)
Vor'cha? (variant)

Teir 4

Heavy Raider
Bird of Prey
Bird of Prey (variant)
Bird of Prey? (variant)

Heavy Assault
Raptor
Raptor (variant)
Raptor? (variant)

Heavy Cruiser
Vor'cha (variant)
Vor'cha (variant)
Vor'cha? (variant)

Teir 5

Fleet Raider
Bird of Prey - K'Vort???
Bird of Prey (variant)
Bird of Prey? (variant)

Fleet Assault
Raptor
Raptor (variant)
Raptor? (variant)

Battle Cruiser
Negh'Var
Negh'Var (variant)
Negh'Var? (variant)

Carrier
Vo'Quv

ok we knowthe list is something like this from interviews ... its been stated that their are 5 BoP's (one for each teir) 4 Raptors (1 for teir 2-5), 3 cruisers (teirs 3-5) and the carrier (teir5)

now it was also said recently that there will be no sub race ships ... so no orion, nausicaan or gorn ... but that they expanded the number of the BoP's, raptors and cruisers.

so I added a couple of varients per teir ... but we dont really know if there are any varients yet. they might just have meant b'rel , k'vort .... and the other 3 teirs of BoP's ... who knows

the only good thing about this list is ... 4 x teir 5 classes ... but unless they have added in a lot of varients ... this list is WAY worse than the fed side!!!! as they have 3 varients per ship type per teir = 40 hulls

and the klingons will have somewhere between 13 and 37 hulls depending on how Cryptic handled it