Don't Worry, the Excelsior, Ambassador, and Nebula may very well be in the game

[JacobFlowers]

As per the ships of the line tier listing that was recently posted, we have only seen 13 configurations. It has been stated that there are 16 total configurations.

I would venture to say, that currently Cryptic may just be trying to 'figure out' where to put these three ship classes. They all are large ships and possess versatility, so in essence they would all fit in the 'Cruiser category'.

If this is the case, then i feel their pain, since for MMO's these days 'balance is the word'.

I would venture to say that they could simply put the Excelsior class ships in the 'Escort' category. Since there are undoubtedly so many of them and the federation is approaching a time of war, mobilizing this large force would not be so out of the realm of possibility. They could be outfitted with this and that, etc.

The Nebula class, because of it's changeable pod mount, can easily fit into all three Ship Type trees. But for the sake of recognizability, it can be placed into the Science category as we've seen them outfitted with massive sensor array pods. (we've also seen them with weapons pods, soo.... uhh).

The Ambassador class being larger than the Excelsior can easily fit into the Cruiser class since it we can presume that it may not have the versatility of a Nebula class, we can deduce that the Ambassador being int eh Science tree would not fit so much.

Anyway, this is all PURE SPECULATION. But I wanted to rbing this up for those of you who may be heart broken because your Nebula or Excelsior seemingly didn't make the cut. Don't worry, there still is a chance! :D

[dru_mcd]

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where the Nebula would fit in with that gropuing too. Haven't had much luck so far...

Excelsior and Ambasador would fit most closely with the Crusiers, I thought.

Ouch - I'm getting a headache already and it's not even lunchtime..

[Acyl]

Excelsior and Ambasador would fit most closely with the Crusiers, I thought.

A lot of folks are speculating that the 'Vesper' class (in the Constitution config) and the 'Envoy' class (in the Galaxy config) are probably versions of the Excelsior and Ambassador.

This seems likely to me.

Honestly, we've got the Constellation and Olympic in the game - and those canon ships have far less of a fan following than the Excelsior and Ambassador. I really doubt the Excelsior and Ambassador will be left out.

[BreachAndClear]

My guess:

Zephyr = refit Steamrunner
Dakota = refit Cheyenne
Vesper = refit Excelsior
Envoy = refit Ambassador
Polaris or Sol = refit Nebula

There's some evidence that points to these being the case. Some of these ships share thematically related names in the same way that the Oslo and Norway do (and the Oslo is an upgraded Norway). For instance Dakota and Cheyenne are North American tribes, Envoy and Ambassador relate to diplomacy. There is a picture of a ship with Excelsior components in the Constitution configuration (Vesper is the only Connie configured ship we've not seen, and might be the source of these parts). Gozer said that the Steamrunner was in the Akira configuration. And Ask Cryptic from Feb. 19 says that ships that look "like a Nebula class" would be "advanced science vessels."

[mach789]

In the past the Nebula class was almost always referred to as a science-type ship because of it's additional sensor modules.

[WinterPark1701]

In the past the Nebula class was almost always referred to as a science-type ship because of it's additional sensor modules.

This is true however that pod can be replaced with a weapons pod.

[mach789]

Now that I think about it. 3 ships that are missing...perhaps those 3 will be multi-role ships and thus don't fit in any of the categories.

[BreachAndClear]

Now that I think about it. 3 ships that are missing...perhaps those 3 will be multi-role ships and thus don't fit in any of the categories.

The Galaxy, Sovereign, Intrepid, etc. could all be argued as being "multi-role" yet they got pigeonholed into a particular type. It would almost certainly be the same for the three ships. Ambassador class ships are in the same configuration as the Galaxy (similar silhouette), so should it be in the game it makes sense to put it as an Explorer. Again, the name Envoy for one of the Galaxy's sister ships is conspicuous. I feel confident that the ship will turn out to be a refitted Ambassador.

And the Nebula was already pigeonholed as an advanced science vessel.

[JacobFlowers]

I Wonder even if any one even read my OP

[BreachAndClear]

I Wonder even if any one even read my OP

What about it?

[Cpt.Power]

i think the excelsior or Ambassador would be added later. Maybe 3-4 month later in an expension back.

[LebowskyBob]

Make the Excelsior a tier2 cruiser, it is larger and more capable than the Constitution of course, but not so much so by 2409 that they couldn't fit into the same tier. Alternatively it could be a tier2 escort since a re-mobilization of these ships in 2409 would likely be for a primarily combat role.

The Ambassador should be a tier3 cruiser or escort since it came after the TMP-era ships and yet still predates the galaxy.

The Nebula is highly versatile, which is what the cruiser category is for, and so should be either a tier3 or tier4 cruiser. I suggest tier3 because while it was in service at the same time as the Galaxy it isn't quite as capable in some ways, at the same time it could fit in tier4 also.

[BreachAndClear]

Problems with the Nebula being a cruiser are:

1) It's not the same configuration as the Galaxy
2) Ships in the Nebula configuration confirmed as advanced science vessels.

[Tain]

A major part of the problem here is cryptic's terrible implementation of ship configuration meaning a single, unflinching purpose. Sure, that works for a *few* canon ship types, but face it, starfleet never worked like that overall. Individual ship classes were configured and fit for all three roles, a class wasnn't a shoehorned into a single mission type. Starfleet never specialized like that. Look at the Miranda, we have seen several mission variants. Tactical fits in Ds9 with extra torpedo launchers, science fits with no rollbar and sensor pods on the side, even a freighter variant in TNG. This is a problem with cryptic's very un star-trek implementation of ship roles, and its going to be pretty difficult to work around something so arbitrarily rigid.

The Nebula should be a cruiser. And a science ship. And an escort. Depending on what pod it has fit.

[BreachAndClear]

A major part of the problem here is cryptic's terrible implementation of ship configuration meaning a single, unflinching purpose. Sure, that works for a *few* canon ship types, but face it, starfleet never worked like that overall. Individual ship classes were configured and fit for all three roles, a class wasnn't a shoehorned into a single mission type. Starfleet never specialized like that. Look at the Miranda, we have seen several mission variants. Tactical fits in Ds9 with extra torpedo launchers, science fits with no rollbar and sensor pods on the side, even a freighter variant in TNG. This is a problem with cryptic's very un star-trek implementation of ship roles, and its going to be pretty difficult to work around something so arbitrarily rigid.

The Nebula should be a cruiser. And a science ship. And an escort. Depending on what pod it has fit.

True, but the ships have to be shoehorned for the sake of gameplay. In the Discovery's SotL it says that the ship is also suitable for patrol (and therefore combat) and we saw the Defiant in DS9 do some science missions. Every ship can do every role, some are just better than others. And those discrepancies have to be played out to diversify gameplay.

The cruisers were large, self sufficient ships that could operate independently in deep space for long periods of time. That doesn't mean that they weren't competent in combat, or couldn't be used in charting space. But still, that self sufficiency translates into being the "tanks" of STO that can take more damage and stay functional longer than escorts or science vessels.

[Tain]

True, but the ships have to be shoehorned for the sake of gameplay. In the Discovery's SotL it says that the ship is also suitable for patrol (and therefore combat) and we saw the Defiant in DS9 do some science missions. Every ship can do every role, some are just better than others. And those discrepancies have to be played out to diversify gameplay.

Its already diversified. You can't just swap your ship's mission role when you feel like it, as what your ship can do is *already* limited by your own skills. People seem to be forgetting that. Even in a totally star trek, open fitting system, a science captain isn't going to be able to fit his ship for tactical missions and expect to be overly competative with the tactical captains- his skills are focused elsewhere.

[Eclipse1987]

If they're not in those other classes they'll probably be added in an expansion.

[BreachAndClear]

Its already diversified. You can't just swap your ship's mission role when you feel like it, as what your ship can do is *already* limited by your own skills. People seem to be forgetting that. Even in a totally star trek, open fitting system, a science captain isn't going to be able to fit his ship for tactical missions and expect to be overly competative with the tactical captains- his skills are focused elsewhere.

Your crew and ship type dictate gameplay in space more so than your own skills. In the game an escort will sit more tactical officers than a cruiser or a science ship. Then if you look at a particular configuration, the various classes within that configuration will have further permutations in their seating charts (an extra tactical, science, or engineering station).

The Nebula is a science ship. So, it will seat more science officers than the Galaxy (which will seat more engineers). This varies gameplay (makes ships fall into little niches) more than what is canonically accurate. Then if you look at ships within the Nebula configuration, one will have an extra tactical seat, one an extra engineering seat, and the last an extra science seat. One will be pushing a science specialization, one will have some extra tactical capability, and the last will have some engineering abilities, but all will still be favoring science vessel abilities more so than escort or cruisers.

[blujester]

Its already diversified. You can't just swap your ship's mission role when you feel like it, as what your ship can do is *already* limited by your own skills. People seem to be forgetting that. Even in a totally star trek, open fitting system, a science captain isn't going to be able to fit his ship for tactical missions and expect to be overly competative with the tactical captains- his skills are focused elsewhere.

Thats actually the direct oposite of what the Devs have said. In space your skills are wide open and thus a Science Captain can train all the tactical skills for ships just like the Tactical or Engineer can. His skills on ground are limeted by carreer but not in space.


Bj

[Tain]

Your crew and ship type dictate gameplay in space more so than your own skills. In the game an escort will sit more tactical officers than a cruiser or a science ship. Then if you look at a particular configuration, the various classes within that configuration will have further permutations in their seating charts (an extra tactical, science, or engineering station).

The Nebula is a science ship. So, it will seat more science officers than the Galaxy (which will seat more engineers). This varies gameplay (makes ships fall into little niches) more than what is canonically accurate. Then if you look at ships within the Nebula configuration, one will have an extra tactical seat, one an extra engineering seat, and the last an extra science seat. One will be pushing a science specialization, one will have some extra tactical capability, and the last will have some engineering abilities, but all will still be favoring science vessel abilities more so than escort or cruisers.

Oh, I am fully aware of how it *does* work. I am just saying its a bad implementation. Player skills should be EXACTLY what dictates a ship's role, as well as what modules/additions are possible to said ship. Not the other way around. (IMO of course)

Currently, we are saddled with a very simple, very rigid, very homogenous and worst of all, very un trek like implementation. Nothing is left to guess at. When we encounter a ship of X type, we already know exactly what kind of tricks to expect from it, and on what level it can compete, and with who. Its paper scissor rock with warp nacelles, and frankly it sucks.

[kaizoku]

Maybe since the Nebula just looks like a Galaxy with it's parts flipped around, it will just be a listed as a Galaxy class variant :P

[Foss]

This is true however that pod can be replaced with a weapons pod.
Yep, and it's possible to have sensor and weapons in the same pod.

[J.L.Picard]

As per the ships of the line tier listing that was recently posted, we have only seen 13 configurations. It has been stated that there are 16 total configurations.

I would venture to say, that currently Cryptic may just be trying to 'figure out' where to put these three ship classes. They all are large ships and possess versatility, so in essence they would all fit in the 'Cruiser category'.

If this is the case, then i feel their pain, since for MMO's these days 'balance is the word'.

I would venture to say that they could simply put the Excelsior class ships in the 'Escort' category. Since there are undoubtedly so many of them and the federation is approaching a time of war, mobilizing this large force would not be so out of the realm of possibility. They could be outfitted with this and that, etc.

The Nebula class, because of it's changeable pod mount, can easily fit into all three Ship Type trees. But for the sake of recognizability, it can be placed into the Science category as we've seen them outfitted with massive sensor array pods. (we've also seen them with weapons pods, soo.... uhh).

The Ambassador class being larger than the Excelsior can easily fit into the Cruiser class since it we can presume that it may not have the versatility of a Nebula class, we can deduce that the Ambassador being int eh Science tree would not fit so much.

Anyway, this is all PURE SPECULATION. But I wanted to rbing this up for those of you who may be heart broken because your Nebula or Excelsior seemingly didn't make the cut. Don't worry, there still is a chance! :D

ambassador like exelsior should not be in this game. in any way. i still cant believe their is a constitution in this game. its plain retarded. and clearly designed to get cryptic more monthly payments

[BreachAndClear]

ambassador like exelsior should not be in this game. in any way. i still cant believe their is a constitution in this game. its plain retarded. and clearly designed to get cryptic more monthly payments

They could easily be brought out of moth balls to accommodate a militarization of Starfleet in a time of war. The Hathaway was an 80 year old ship called back into duty to serve in a blockade of the Klingon-Romulan border.

[mrwalsh]

Oh, I am fully aware of how it *does* work. I am just saying its a bad implementation. Player skills should be EXACTLY what dictates a ship's role, as well as what modules/additions are possible to said ship. Not the other way around. (IMO of course)

Currently, we are saddled with a very simple, very rigid, very homogenous and worst of all, very un trek like implementation. Nothing is left to guess at. When we encounter a ship of X type, we already know exactly what kind of tricks to expect from it, and on what level it can compete, and with who. Its paper scissor rock with warp nacelles, and frankly it sucks.

They said that any player can acquire any skills for space combat, and that the major differentiation between ships will be how they order the bridge crew. That means the only thing you can expect from a particular ship is that it has a few more of one type of crew.

On top of that, assuming that all of a particular skill type are associated with a particular officer type (tactical=attack, engineer=defense, science=support) seems a little odd to do at this point. From the information so far presented, I'm assuming an ability system more similar to Guild Wars. I figure each BO represents a skill slot, and you can make any build within the limitations of your class. In GW any class can be made into an incredibly effective form of any role, and the build options are more or less unlimited.

The only limitation I see to which class title is applied to which ship is carried in the skill you have to raise to acquire them. Everything beyond that is up to the Captain. I'd say that layout is very trek-like, personally.

[Inquizitor]

Oh, I am fully aware of how it *does* work. I am just saying its a bad implementation. Player skills should be EXACTLY what dictates a ship's role, as well as what modules/additions are possible to said ship. Not the other way around. (IMO of course)

Currently, we are saddled with a very simple, very rigid, very homogenous and worst of all, very un trek like implementation. Nothing is left to guess at. When we encounter a ship of X type, we already know exactly what kind of tricks to expect from it, and on what level it can compete, and with who. Its paper scissor rock with warp nacelles, and frankly it sucks.

Not nesicerraly. Reemmber these ships are going to be modular. Drawing from the Weapon pod argument for the Nebula class. That would be a variant of a nevula withing the science cruise track. We already know there are three versions of an Intrepid with slightly different loadouts. I woul d make an educated guess that these are going to be different seat arangments.

Going back to the Nebula Class. a ship with a sensor pod might have more science stations and perhaps harpoints for more sensor type gear. A Ship with a weapon pod might have more tactical slots than normal and more gun mounts. You also won't nesicerraly know just by looking what configuration that nebula would be in since the actual visual image is purely cosmentic. I could have the weapon pod loadout but make it look like a normal Nebula with a Sensor Dish on it.

Yes it is true that All teh nebula variant swill problably behave the same way in most respects but depending on the pieces of equipment you equip, The actual variant, your individual bridge officer, and your onw character and player skills. Each Nebula would have a chance to bring something unique or unexpected form time to time. Same with any other ship. IF I'm reading all the data right on how loadouts and variants work.

[BreachAndClear]

Not nesicerraly. Reemmber these ships are going to be modular. Drawing from the Weapon pod argument for the Nebula class. That would be a variant of a nevula withing the science cruise track. We already know there are three versions of an Intrepid with slightly different loadouts. I woul d make an educated guess that these are going to be different seat arangments.

Going back to the Nebula Class. a ship with a sensor pod might have more science stations and perhaps harpoints for more sensor type gear. A Ship with a weapon pod might have more tactical slots than normal and more gun mounts. You also won't nesicerraly know just by looking what configuration that nebula would be in since the actual visual image is purely cosmentic. I could have the weapon pod loadout but make it look like a normal Nebula with a Sensor Dish on it.

Yes it is true that All teh nebula variant swill problably behave the same way in most respects but depending on the pieces of equipment you equip, The actual variant, your individual bridge officer, and your onw character and player skills. Each Nebula would have a chance to bring something unique or unexpected form time to time. Same with any other ship. IF I'm reading all the data right on how loadouts and variants work.

I figure the multi-mission pod will just sort of act as an open slot. For instance, it's been said that there are weapon slots and slots for things like enhanced deflectors, etc. I figure ships in the Nebula configuration might have designated slots for weapons, senors, etc. and then just have an open slot that isn't designated and can fit several different technologies (offensive or otherwise).

Adding another weapon vs. sensors will allow you to bring more "guns" to bear, but it will have no bearing on seating arrangement or special abilities (which will primarily be science in nature). Just a guess.

[Inquizitor]

At this point it is all acedemic anyway since there is no Nebula that we know of in the game.

[BreachAndClear]

At this point it is all acedemic anyway since there is no Nebula that we know of in the game.

Ask Cryptic says that players will be able to look at a ship and say "that looks like a Nebula, so I know it's an advanced science vessel." So, while the Nebula itself might not appear in the game, ships in the same configuration that look like it will be. And regarding to what role mission pods will serve, it would still apply to the Luna, which is in the game.

[cstaricha]

Maybe since the Nebula just looks like a Galaxy with it's parts flipped around, it will just be a listed as a Galaxy class variant :P

Doubtful lol i think it should go under the science class simply becuase we need a large ship in there lol..

[Inquizitor]

Doubtful lol i think it should go under the science class simply becuase we need a large ship in there lol..

The Luna is a large ship. In fact it might be possible to justify turning one into a nebula look depending on how creative we can get with teh customizations. Just pull the Secondary hull Forward and you ahve teh underslung Nacelles look.

[indigowhale345]

I think a lot of people are completely forgetting that ship appearances are customizable. They have already said that any given ship is identifiable as part of its superclass (configuration).

This means, quite simply, going by their ship of the line list, if we "buy" a Galaxy class, we can customize its appearance to look precisely like the Celestial and Envoy classes. But all those three classes will look alike enough to be recognized as the same superclass.

Do not forget that there are "spare" parts. So while we can make a Galaxy or Celestial or Envoy, we also have parts to make some other different "classes" of ships. In fact, I'd bet a million tacos that the Nebula is right in there with the various customization options to the Galaxy superclass. It makes no sense to be anywhere else, because it IS a modified Galaxy. Whether it is in fact represented by the Celestial class or not isn't important.

The same goes for Ambassador and Excelsior, I'm sure they are already in game, as customization options if not "upgraded" classes. They are not leaving out any class that carried the name Enterprise, that is a given, and something they've stated.

[Inquizitor]

Customized yes but it still has to be identifiable as the origional class. a Galaxy doesn't look anything like a Nebula class Honestly even trying to mod the Luna into a Nebula woudl be pushing it, possibly too far. WE'll see.

[indigowhale345]

Customized yes but it still has to be identifiable as the origional class. a Galaxy doesn't look anything like a Nebula class Honestly even trying to mod the Luna into a Nebula woudl be pushing it, possibly too far. WE'll see.


I disagree that they don't look alike. A nebula uses the same saucer, nacelles, and only a very slightly modified engineering section as a Galaxy. Its pretty much a Galaxy taken apart and reassembled in a different way, aside from the extra upper section. And its pretty similar in size. If you build a taco and then smash, slice, and cut it up without adding or taking away anything, I'll still call it a taco, its all still there.

But I'll grant that they may define what makes what look like another ship very differently than I would, especially if they want the Nebula as a science vessel. However they don't have to look like the original class, just the overall configuration would be identifiable, according to what they've said so far.

[JacobFlowers]

Problems with the Nebula being a cruiser are:

1) It's not the same configuration as the Galaxy
2) Ships in the Nebula configuration confirmed as advanced science vessels.

Depends on the load out of the modular pod. We have seen nebula's with advanced sensor pod equippment, and others with weapons load outs.

A major part of the problem here is cryptic's terrible implementation of ship configuration meaning a single, unflinching purpose. Sure, that works for a *few* canon ship types, but face it, starfleet never worked like that overall. Individual ship classes were configured and fit for all three roles, a class wasnn't a shoehorned into a single mission type. Starfleet never specialized like that. Look at the Miranda, we have seen several mission variants. Tactical fits in Ds9 with extra torpedo launchers, science fits with no rollbar and sensor pods on the side, even a freighter variant in TNG. This is a problem with cryptic's very un star-trek implementation of ship roles, and its going to be pretty difficult to work around something so arbitrarily rigid.

The Nebula should be a cruiser. And a science ship. And an escort. Depending on what pod it has fit.

I agree wtih your reasoning, although I am not SOOO disappointed in their way for ranking things. I do have qualms however with how they placed certain ships (seems uninformed).

If they're not in those other classes they'll probably be added in an expansion.

For an EXPANSION? Epic fail. That would be lame to the Nth degree. They should be in the release version.

It is 2409, 30 years after Nemesis. starting with canon and recognizable ships at launch... fine... ok. Bur expansions should include new and well thought out newly design models. The Excelsior class was replaced by the Sovereign in about 2375 or so. We know Galaxy class ships are ready to be decommissioned and phased out of service around 2390. So its time to see some new designs, new capital ships.

Maybe since the Nebula just looks like a Galaxy with it's parts flipped around, it will just be a listed as a Galaxy class variant :P

That would be utterly stupid and not Star Trek. We all don't see the Nebula as a 'Galaxy variant'. It is its own class. I HOPE Cryptic doesnt go this lazy route.

Not nesicerraly. Reemmber these ships are going to be modular. Drawing from the Weapon pod argument for the Nebula class. That would be a variant of a nevula withing the science cruise track. We already know there are three versions of an Intrepid with slightly different loadouts. I woul d make an educated guess that these are going to be different seat arangments.

Going back to the Nebula Class. a ship with a sensor pod might have more science stations and perhaps harpoints for more sensor type gear. A Ship with a weapon pod might have more tactical slots than normal and more gun mounts. You also won't nesicerraly know just by looking what configuration that nebula would be in since the actual visual image is purely cosmentic. I could have the weapon pod loadout but make it look like a normal Nebula with a Sensor Dish on it.

Yes it is true that All teh nebula variant swill problably behave the same way in most respects but depending on the pieces of equipment you equip, The actual variant, your individual bridge officer, and your onw character and player skills. Each Nebula would have a chance to bring something unique or unexpected form time to time. Same with any other ship. IF I'm reading all the data right on how loadouts and variants work.

I am starting to have a problem with Ship Customization. I think it is obtrusive to gameplay and takes away from the immersion factor.

Customization on CERTAIN level is fine... but I dont want to go 'Champions Online' with our beloved Starships. That would just be lame in my opinion.

[Napalm006]

No Nebula =s No Napalm006 that or I'm only playing Klingon and **** the Feds... The more I think about it. The more I get mad.

[dan6526]

I would have to say that I do believe they will be in the game in some form. Someone else eluded to the same idea I'm about to type so I can't claim 100% ingenuity on it but here's the theory we used:

It sounds like that in each tier you have similar shaped vessels. Therefore it is a logical assumption to make that:

The Celestial-Class is likely the Excalibur-Class is to the Constitution-Class. And that the Envoy is likely an updated Ambassador-Class and that the Ambassador may be tied to it like the Norway and Oslo.

Some have speculated that "Vesper" references to "look ever-upward/forward." And if you break up the name of the Excelsior, it as the word "excel" in it and to put the suffix "sior," on implies that it is an object that aspires to be; namely to excel. I've also heard that excelsior is a Greek word as well, but I don't know Greek...and that it is somewhat similar. So I theorize that the Vesper-Class is an updated Excelsior-Class.

My other theory is that the Celestial is not an updated Galaxy-Class and is in fact an updated Nebula-Class. Because the Luna/Sol/Polaris ships reference the sky here on Earth. Luna is the Latin name of the Moon, Sol is the proper name for the Sun, and Polaris is the proper name of the "North Star." We cannot visibly see a nebula so I doubt, using the above reasoning, the Nebula-Class is in T4 of the Science tree. Quite clearly, no TNG show's ships are in Tier 4 so it doesn't fit that the Nebula-Class is on the same Tier as "newer" ships even though the age difference is not all that great.

I also don't think that if these ships are not in the game at launch, they might be in a patch but not an official Expansion. I'd foresee Tier 5 ships being in an Expansion before that. And I thoroughly believe that the first Expansion we'll see will either give us one or two new factions out of the Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion. And going off of what we've read in the Path-To, it may be that the Hirogen are allies of the Romulans... So I'm pretty certain Romulans are going to be in the first Expansion, whether or not another race is or if they add privateers as a choice, but I really think the "new ships" we see will more than likely be other faction's (not Starfleet or KDF ships).

[rabidchocobo]

But it is true that a lot of the ships we think of as "modern" as of TNG would be aging and being phased out by 2409. The Nebula must be 40-50 years old now? That certainly doesn't mean there wouldn't be a few out there, especially with the Federation at yellow alert with the Klingons, Gorn, and Romulans apparently all gone insane.

Although the F-22 and F-18 can certainly do everything the 14's, 15's, and 16's can do, and better, that doesn't mean they aren't still in use. Those planes are each tens of millions of dollars in design, construction, and labor, and are still very good at their individual jobs.

A starship would be worth hundreds of billions, if Trek had currency, and an old Excelsior has a perfectly good frame to use. Upgrade the computer cores, warp engine, and swap out the weapons, and toss 'er back out there. She won't win any awards for power output or speed, but there's no reason they can't run cargo, take an ambassador home, or observe a developing civilization. With both the Borg and Dominion having shot the fleet down a peg or 5, these rolls have to be filled by someone, so you may as well unleash the mothball squad.

[Inquizitor]

I disagree that they don't look alike. A nebula uses the same saucer, nacelles, and only a very slightly modified engineering section as a Galaxy. Its pretty much a Galaxy taken apart and reassembled in a different way, aside from the extra upper section. And its pretty similar in size. If you build a taco and then smash, slice, and cut it up without adding or taking away anything, I'll still call it a taco, its all still there.

But I'll grant that they may define what makes what look like another ship very differently than I would, especially if they want the Nebula as a science vessel. However they don't have to look like the original class, just the overall configuration would be identifiable, according to what they've said so far.

What!? The Nebula doesn't look like the Galaxy anymore than the Miranda class looks like a Constitution class. I don't know about you but I didn't find it hard to tell the Reliant and Enterprise apart in the nebula fight scene. Using your logic an Akira could be tied to the Galaxy class ship.

WE are talking silhouettes here. If you look at all the variations of the Miranda class you don't have much trouble telling it is still a Miranda class ship although I'll grant some of the saucer designs are a bit out there or m tastes.

A Nebula class is missing a Secondary Hull and neck plus the Nacelles are attached directly to the Saucer section. Next your going to tell me a Constellation class looks like a Constitution class because the individual parts look similar... Al the parts do is help you place a set of ships in a similar time frame.

[Manx]

I disagree that they don't look alike. A nebula uses the same saucer, nacelles, and only a very slightly modified engineering section as a Galaxy. Its pretty much a Galaxy taken apart and reassembled in a different way, aside from the extra upper section. And its pretty similar in size. If you build a taco and then smash, slice, and cut it up without adding or taking away anything, I'll still call it a taco, its all still there.

But I'll grant that they may define what makes what look like another ship very differently than I would, especially if they want the Nebula as a science vessel. However they don't have to look like the original class, just the overall configuration would be identifiable, according to what they've said so far.

If you took a Nebula class and replaced all the components in the ship customization, then its only visual tie to the Galaxy class would disappear.

Your own words; 'It's pretty much a Galaxy taken apart and reassembled in a different way...', or, to put it another way, it has been re-configured.

Take a ship made of random bits that are laid out in a similar way to the Nebula and nobody is going to think that it looks like a Galaxy class; they might wonder if it is a Luna though, what with the underslung nacelles and the overhead pod.

[VulcanWarrior]

I hate nubula, I hope the don't include it.