Starfleet should now allow cloaking devices on their ships.

[Forgotten-Nemesis]

So the Romulan Empire is in the toilet and the Klingons are getting hostile again. It makes sense that Starfleet should use any and every tactic possible to maintain Federation security.

So I think Starfleet ships should have cloaking devices as an upgradable option.

[mezlabor]

So the Romulan Empire is in the toilet and the Klingons are getting hostile again. It makes sense that Starfleet should use any and every tactic possible to maintain Federation security.

So I think Starfleet ships should have cloaking devices as an upgradable option.

Agreed the romulans arent realy a major factor anymore the treaty is null.

[Spade0]

So the Romulan Empire is in the toilet and the Klingons are getting hostile again. It makes sense that Starfleet should use any and every tactic possible to maintain Federation security.

So I think Starfleet ships should have cloaking devices as an upgradable option.

I agree. I would love to have a cloak but it's never going to happen. It's just not like the Feds to use them, Only on DS9 and TNG one time. And it was a sweet cloak too, because you could move threw matter. I'm sure I heard somewhere that Cryptic already said no to this and that there might be one mission where we could use a cloak. But once the mission is over so is the cloaking. This topic has been beaten with a stick already.... a few times actually.

[Delta122]

So the Romulan Empire is in the toilet and the Klingons are getting hostile again. It makes sense that Starfleet should use any and every tactic possible to maintain Federation security.

So I think Starfleet ships should have cloaking devices as an upgradable option.

I highly disagree. Klingons are outnumbered for 1 and they need any tactical advantage possible. For 2, the Federation is getting tachyon beams which will be Klingons worst nightmare. For 3 as far as I can see the Klingons don’t have nearly as many ships as the Federation, I hope these changes shortly or I am afraid this game may become overly unbalanced in the Federation’s favor

[Endariok]

I don't feel like searching as im currently re-watching Decent part 2....again. Can you give links to the aformentioned stick beatings?

[QuantaStarfire]

Agreed the romulans arent realy a major factor anymore the treaty is null.

How is it null? Because the Romulans are at their weakest point in Star Trek history? That seems like kind of a lame excuse. Not to mention that the Federation holds itself to higher standards than to backstab even an enemy when they're down. Just because the Romulans have historically been dicks doesn't mean that the Federation should stoop to their level.

[CyanKorr]

It seems to me after reading the "Path to 2409" entries that the Federation is desperately trying to keep the **** from hitting the fan, so to speak, and wouldn't do something as provocative as installing cloaks on everything.

[USS_Parallax]

Riiight because when the Federation finally sees a chance to befriend the Romulan Empire they're going to start off the friendship by saying "Oh, ur so weak now we're gunna cancel our past agreements! Whatcyagunno do? Can't do NOTHIN'!"

[Spade0]

I don't feel like searching as im currently re-watching Decent part 2....again. Can you give links to the aformentioned stick beatings?

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=26966&highlight=Cloaking
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=25131&highlight=Cloaking
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=15660&highlight=Cloaking

[satek06]

Sovereign + cloaking device = deadly combo, i would not mind having a cloaking device on federation ships, as far as i see it would be a good idea.

[Eclipse1987]

not gonna happen for a varity of reasons.

you want to cloak? play klingon

[Kaybok]

Nah. They already have space combat balanced it seems - Klingons can cloak but Fed Science ships can detect them. I can only see this happening if Starfleet is allowed a cloak ability for ground combat like Suliban or Jem'Ha'Dar. If that is allowed in some way then that might loosen the devs up to add it to space combat but probably only in a limited capacity (super rare 1 min only cloak or similar). And that is only after they do datamining on PvP and PvE kills - balance is key.

[soas]

buy them from the romulans

[Forgotten-Nemesis]

I have to disagree on all the opposing points made.

I highly disagree. Klingons are outnumbered for 1 and they need any tactical advantage possible. For 2, the Federation is getting tachyon beams which will be Klingons worst nightmare. For 3 as far as I can see the Klingons don’t have nearly as many ships as the Federation

How do you know the Feds outnumber the Klingons in this time period? They might both have reached strategic parity by now.


How is it null? Because the Romulans are at their weakest point in Star Trek history? That seems like kind of a lame excuse. Not to mention that the Federation holds itself to higher standards than to backstab even an enemy when they're down. Just because the Romulans have historically been dicks doesn't mean that the Federation should stoop to their level.

Riiight because when the Federation finally sees a chance to befriend the Romulan Empire they're going to start off the friendship by saying "Oh, ur so weak now we're gunna cancel our past agreements! Whatcyagunno do? Can't do NOTHIN'!"

Who says the Feds aren't so friendly with the remnants of the Romulan Empire that the Romulans have not only allowed Starfleet cloaking technology but have also worked with starfleet to provide more advanced cloaking systems in exchange for military/economic and humanitarian aid? It's in the best interests of the Feds and Romulans to work together to help deter Klingon aggression.

It seems to me after reading the "Path to 2409" entries that the Federation is desperately trying to keep the **** from hitting the fan, so to speak, and wouldn't do something as provocative as installing cloaks on everything.

From what we know of the Klingons, they're very good at going straight to war, whether there are tensions or not between them and a foreign power. When the Klingons want to have a fight, they'll make it happen despite all the diplomatic appeasement in the world. In fact, the Klingons often see such overtures as a sign of cowardess and weakness and would take such an opportunity to strike.

I don't accept this whole "the Federation doesn't go sneaking around" excuse either. In times of war, the object is to win. Fitting cloaking a device isn't a moral crime like genocide or the deployment of terror weapons, etc that the Federation with its lofty morals should spurn because they're "better than that". We're talking about using camouflage, not mustard gas, death camps or biological warfare.

Game balance should of course be considered, but why can't the Feds have a special black ops division for captains of "escort" ships to perform stealth operations in times of war?

[BaakCha]

How is it null? Because the Romulans are at their weakest point in Star Trek history? That seems like kind of a lame excuse. Not to mention that the Federation holds itself to higher standards than to backstab even an enemy when they're down. Just because the Romulans have historically been dicks doesn't mean that the Federation should stoop to their level.

It's called winning. If Starfleet wins they get to write the history books and decide what is written. To the victor go the spoils.

[QuantaStarfire]

Who says the Feds aren't so friendly with the remnants of the Romulan Empire that the Romulans have not only allowed Starfleet cloaking technology but have also worked with starfleet to provide more advanced cloaking systems in exchange for military/economic and humanitarian aid? It's in the best interests of the Feds and Romulans to work together to help deter Klingon aggression.

You forget that there's hundreds of years of suspicion, mistrust, and hatred between the Romulans and the Federation. The Vulcans in particular have been a hated enemy for thousands of years. It would seem odd for both sides to suddenly ignore their past histories and work together in that manner, especially for the Romulans and Vulcans. There's no way they'll nullify a treaty to give a perceived enemy an even greater advantage over them.

It's called winning. If Starfleet wins they get to write the history books and decide what is written. To the victor go the spoils.

If it's all about winning, then why not employ genocide or biological warfare? Those are pretty effective methods. Just wipe the Klingons out with an engineered nanovirus and be done with it.

[Deltaop]

fed with cloak? lame

sorry but cloak has always been a romulan & klingon affair

federation with cloak is the worst idea ever

why dont you just ask for ablative armor, borg multiphasic shielding and transphasic torpedoes to make your precious federation even more uber. wait even better how bout a button that when you press it turns on god mode because damn its good to be in the federation. :rolleyes:

[Azurit]

From what we know of the Klingons, they're very good at going straight to war, whether there are tensions or not between them and a foreign power. When the Klingons want to have a fight, they'll make it happen despite all the diplomatic appeasement in the world. In fact, the Klingons often see such overtures as a sign of cowardess and weakness and would take such an opportunity to strike.

I don't accept this whole "the Federation doesn't go sneaking around" excuse either. In times of war, the object is to win. Fitting cloaking a device isn't a moral crime like genocide or the deployment of terror weapons, etc that the Federation with its lofty morals should spurn because they're "better than that". We're talking about using camouflage, not mustard gas, death camps or biological warfare.

Game balance should of course be considered, but why can't the Feds have a special black ops division for captains of "escort" ships to perform stealth operations in times of war?

Imo the whole cloaking technolgy thing is a story mess in StarTrek. You are right with what you say, and besides that I have to say that from lore perspective I always found it strange that the Klingons use a cloaking device. The romulans for sure but the klingons? Hidding and then attacking an unprepared enemy is like killing someone who sleeps or using poison. Two things a honorable Klingon would not do. So to me it was always strange to see this honorable warriors in the series use a fight tactic which is normaly used by rouges and cowards and not by warriors.

[Forgotten-Nemesis]

fed with cloak? lame

sorry but cloak has always been a romulan & klingon affair

federation with cloak is the worst idea ever

why dont you just ask for ablative armor, borg multiphasic shielding and transphasic torpedoes to make your precious federation even more uber. wait even better how bout a button that when you press it turns on god mode because damn its good to be in the federation. :rolleyes:

"Lame" and "Feds will be overpowered!!!11" is not an argument, especially when you haven't even played the game yet and seen what the game balance is like.

[Forgotten-Nemesis]

You forget that there's hundreds of years of suspicion, mistrust, and hatred between the Romulans and the Federation. The Vulcans in particular have been a hated enemy for thousands of years. It would seem odd for both sides to suddenly ignore their past histories and work together in that manner, especially for the Romulans and Vulcans. There's no way they'll nullify a treaty to give a perceived enemy an even greater advantage over them.

There have been 20 years since Nemesis - more than enough time to develop a closer relatipnship with the Romulans, especially after Romulus was destroyed. Remember Praxis? You'd think they'd have made some diplomatic progress by now.

And even if the Romulans still don't trust the Feds, it doesn't matter. Their empire is now ruled from Q'onos. They are in no position to oppose Federation policy.

[QuantaStarfire]

It has been 20 years since Nemesis to develop a closer relatipnship with the Romulans, especially after Romulus was destroyed. Remember Praxis? You'd think they'd have made some diplomatic progress by now.

It doesn't matter. 20 years of trying to offer aid isn't going to nullify 200+ years of conflict between the two governments, and it certainly isn't going to nullify 2000 years of hate between two peoples. Nothing short of Reunification between the Vulcans and the Romulans is going to fix things, and that hasn't been working.

And even if the Romulans still don't trust the Feds, it doesn't matter. Their empire is now ruled from Q'onos. They are in no position to oppose Federation policy.

No, it's not. Last time we checked in with the Romulans in Path to 2409, they were establishing a new capital and electing a new government. There's nothing in there about them being taken over by the Klingons.

[Forgotten-Nemesis]

No, it's not. Last time we checked in with the Romulans in Path to 2409, they were establishing a new capital and electing a new government. There's nothing in there about them being taken over by the Klingons.

I had read that the Klingons had taken over a large part of Romulan territory in the intervening years. And if you're saying the Romulans will always be icy towards the Federation if not downright hostile in the forseeable future, then the treaty of Algernon is an obsolete strait-jacket that should be abandoned. They're not a credible threat anymore anyway.

[eNDIE]

I hope the feds doesnt get cloaks it brings more diversity to the factions and makes it more fun to try out both. Its like in wow in the beginning when the alliance had palladins and horde had shamans.

[beowulf22]

Seriously,

the Federation is not some imperialistic national state on 21st century earth and not a militaristic organisation. Neither is Starfleet. Its an alliance with hundreds of members that all signed a charter that forbids actions like those suggested by some of the previous posters here.

"We the life forms of the United Federation of Planets determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, and to reaffirm faith in the fundamental rights of sentient beings, in the dignity and worth of all life forms, in the equal rights of members of planetary systems large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of interstellar law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of living on all worlds..."

Even in a war there are rules to abide to. The "During a time of war, anything goes"-mentality is not what the Federation would consider an option.

Just because 40 years have passed, it does not mean that the Federation has had any success with building their own cloaking device.

Please do NOT make cloaking devices available to Federation ships! Thank you, Cryptic!

[Cormoran]

In terms of gameplay i like the differences in playstyle only allowing cloaks to klingons would bring. I like factions to have their own gameplay flair rather than just a different skin on the same object.

Just so long as cloaks don't equal an 'I WIN' button like it did in BOTF. :eek:

I find it useless to offer up any IC explanations for or against, with 30 years to play with cryptic can pull any excuse out of their rear ends for whichever decision they go with.

[J.L.Picard]

you guys talk like you dont know starfleet.

Their could be 1 single romulan colony left and starfleet would still uphold the treaty.

The Federation has plans for the Romulans and that is the reunification between the romulans and vulcans

[J.L.Picard]

Seriously,

the Federation is not some imperialistic national state on 21st century earth and not a militaristic organisation. Neither is Starfleet. Its an alliance with hundreds of members that all signed a charter that forbids actions like those suggested by some of the previous posters here.

"We the life forms of the United Federation of Planets determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, and to reaffirm faith in the fundamental rights of sentient beings, in the dignity and worth of all life forms, in the equal rights of members of planetary systems large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of interstellar law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of living on all worlds..."

Even in a war there are rules to abide to. The "During a time of war, anything goes"-mentality is not what the Federation would consider an option.

Just because 40 years have passed, it does not mean that the Federation has had any success with building their own cloaking device.

Please do NOT make cloaking devices available to Federation ships! Thank you, Cryptic!


just for your information Federation has the most advanced clocking technology in the galaxy and to make thing worse they are several decades ahead of Romulans this is FACT not fiction or Fandom.

Federation have working Phase Cloak technology. so any ******** excuse that begins with "Federation dont have a working cloak" is just rubbish and ignorant.

[beowulf22]

just for your information Federation has the most advanced clocking technology in the galaxy and to make thing worse they are several decades ahead of Romulans this is FACT not fiction or Fandom.

Federation have working Phase Cloak technology. so any ******** excuse that begins with "Federation dont have a working cloak" is just rubbish and ignorant.

Source please. I thought the phase cloak was a failure?
Either way. I say no cloaking for the Feds :cool:

[beast0382]

Phase cloak only failed on the Pegasus due to the fact that the crew mutanied and caused I believe a plasma explosion as the cloak activated. The problem was that the crew did not know how to run the cloak.

Source : http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Pegasus_%28episode%29

The cloak just needed some tweaking. Look for the episode and watch it.

[J.L.Picard]

Season 7 episode 12

the guy above me already linked.

if you want more sources then SFC3 i consider this canon because the story was written by the people who wrote Nemesis and the game is the story lead up to the movie. but obviously this is down to you

however my point being that everytime we have seen the federation play with cloaking they are not just better then any counterpart they are years ahead in technology.

[Musterion]

What I'm hoping is that Cryptic are working on more ways to differentiate the playstyles of Starfleet and Klingon ships, than relying upon cloak vs no cloak.

[J.L.Picard]

What I'm hoping is that Cryptic are working on more ways to differentiate the playstyles of Starfleet and Klingon ships, than relying upon cloak vs no cloak.

they cant even get ship tiers right so dont bother getting your hopes up.

[SelorKiith]

they cant even get ship tiers right so dont bother getting your hopes up.

Don't get it right by who's standards? Yours? Who are you to decide what is right and what's not?
Have you been elected to do so? Or what?

And I strongly recommend that cloaking will be only avaible for Federation in special ops missions as the only appearance... we will have different tactics then the cowardly Klingons that must hide ;)

[Starchild]

I completely agree. The teenagers and l33t d00ds will all be Klingon's and good riddance!

[AchillesHeel]

Add my name to the "no Starfleet cloaking devices" petition, alongside the "no non-Klingons on Klingon warships" petition and the "you don't play the Borg, they play you" petition. Sometimes it seems like some of the people on this forum have never watched Star Trek before... :p

[Deadjester1]

Personally, I think Starfleet would have a high level of Cloak tech that would always be ugrade but sitting in a lab never used till the day they find a enemy that they knew would just destroy the Federation and all that it stood for.

But they would have a HIGH level in ability to detect Cloaked ships, even the basic Starfleet vessel would be good at it just the Science Vessels would truely Excel at great range doing it.

Because face it, you will either have Cloak Tech and make the enemy fear you as much as you fear them or you have major Anti cloak tech otherwise, why wouldnt a enemy relax, have a few beers and park their fleet off your home world.

I think Cloaking has always been a real space effect. meaning it doesnt do much for you to Cloak and Warp for Warping effects the space around you which a Cloaking field should not be able to hide but once you show up and are under impulse power, now it comes into its own.

So as Empire, if your not going to Cloak, your darn well are going to be able to detect it.

[adamflux]

http://www.startrekonline.com/ships/unknown

I wouldn't count the Romulan Star Empire out of the game just yet.

[Taran_Tatsuuchi]

Source please. I thought the phase cloak was a failure?
Either way. I say no cloaking for the Feds :cool:

It wasn't a complete failure.
IIRC it had problems with the impulse drive which caused the explosion of the test ship, but worked on thrusters only... Although going on only thrusters is pretty slow...

[ussawsomeness]

the defiant has a cloaking device.
I'm sure new ships have a cloaking device, as well.
but old ships like the galaxy or ambassador could.
the sovereighn is likely to have one, also...

[polysyllabist]

Regardless of the implications in game mechanics with Federation cloaking technology, here is why I find it unlikely:

They would have to get the devices from:

A: The Romulans - Which is unlikely. Even if for some reason the Romulans thought equipping the Federation fleet (or a single class) was of strategic benefit (and oh my god is it not) they would have to first produce those devices. I think they have more important things to focus on. Consider that the Romulans are a proud people, they haven't given up the belief that 100 years from now they'll be back on top as a powerful , independent and sovereign organization. At that point, they certainly won't want foolishly distributed cloaking tech in circulation. Non Fed races don't constrain themselves by treaties in quite the same fashion, and a Federation war with the Klingons would leave plenty of devices to salvage from wrecks.
Plus, the cloaking edge is a part of Romulan vs Federation strength... how do you make back that position of strength if the Federation decides they like cloaking and are going to keep the devices?
Too risky.

B: Federation Produced Models - Now remember that cloaking tech has always been a cat/mouse game of whose cloak is more advanced than whose sensors. Any mainstream cloak the Federation could produce would likely be inferior to senor technology of the day. Moreover, the power requirements often require ships to be designed around the cloak and not the reverse. Do recall the extraordinary effort required to make a cloak function on a ship even as small as the defiant.

While not impossible, it seems to be if ever the exception and not the rule. ie plot device on an npc.

[blood_duality]

From what I have seen in the videos of combat it doesn't seem like a cloak will provide all that much of an advantage. It will take multiple hits and well done movement in order to get someone down, and a cload would just allow for the ability to sneak in one good hit before an oponent can retaliate. The only way the cloaks would provide a good advatage would be with a group hunting together and picking on ships that are alone. Even then the end result wouldn't be much different than if they didn't have a cloak. The prey would just be less likely to try to escape.

Now I will let you all discuss lore as much as you want, but this is still a game and they have to make it enjoyable. So cloak cannot be considered too overpowered to ruin the game experience for everyone without it. So I am not too worried, and the cloak in eve-online wasn't even all that powerful. With cloak there will always be large disadvantages.

[blujester]

Lets not over look the obvious reason behind the Fed not having Cloaks.

Scenario:

You cloak your defiant and warp into the Neutral Zone to hunt Klingons. But you can't see any...and they can't see you. You know they're here. They know your here. But neither of you is within minnimum detection distance. You figure they are probably on the left side of the map so you go looking over there..but they think your on the right side of the map and head that way. Now you've scoured the left side and find nothing so you head along the north boarder to the right side of the map about the time they head along the south wall to the left side of the map.

3 hours later you just give up. Wow...that was fun.



Bj

[adamflux]

From what I have seen in the videos of combat it doesn't seem like a cloak will provide all that much of an advantage.

no offense, but somebody probably said the same thing about Stealth with the rogue classes the first time they played a game like WoW.

I would anticipate that there will be ships that can fire through their cloaks, that cloaks will let you break target locks, and that they will likely be a backstab-like ability associated with cloaking. this is essentially what was going on in Balance of Terror isn't it?

[Zepath]

Bah! Only $#@%&^# hide behind a cloaking device. Starfleet don't need em.

[Zepath]

^
|
|
|
|
| _ Yes, that was a joke.

[TheRealNaveed]

I think if the Federation side does allow cloaking, it should only be incredibly rare gear from endgame stuff, and the cloak shouldn't be as good as what the Klingons use. But overall I don't think they will, or should... I like the cloak / no-clock dynamic in the show.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

So the Romulan Empire is in the toilet and the Klingons are getting hostile again. It makes sense that Starfleet should use any and every tactic possible to maintain Federation security.

So I think Starfleet ships should have cloaking devices as an upgradable option.

From a STORY perspective, you are right. From a BALANCE perspective, you are not.

[Zepath]

Seriously guys, think about it ... they have to balance the ability to cloak.

Do you really want them gimp'ing your ship to compensate for a cloaking device? I don't.

[bullhead2007]

I think Feds should have some sort of cloak available, but it shouldn't be available on every ship or to every person. I think the Fed would use cloaked ships for recon during an epic war, just like they did with the dominion war. I think that the cloaking devices should be decently hard to get, and only work on certain ships like the defiant class. It shouldn't be nearly as common as cloaking is for the Klingon Empire that's for sure.

[QuantaStarfire]

the defiant has a cloaking device.
I'm sure new ships have a cloaking device, as well.
but old ships like the galaxy or ambassador could.
the sovereighn is likely to have one, also...

The cloaking device was on loan from the Romulans so that the Defiant could collect information from the Gamma Quadrant, specifically the Dominion. With the Dominion War finished, they would probably have given it back. None of those other ships ever had cloaking technology.