What happens if players fail in a "Borg event"?

[The.Grand.Nagus]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

[cthulhulive]

Since it is a game, you will probably just "Respawn" with some kind of determent for a few minutes. After all being assimilated and not being able to play that toon anymore really sucks when you are paying for the game.

Although on a Trekker standpoint, it would be coll to be assimilated and be able to play that for a limited time. However more then likely the first option will happen.

It's a game after all and no one ever dies in an MMO... You would never here the end of the QQ-ing if player death in an MMO was final...

[Birdman1604]

Maybe some of the outermost colonies get destroyed, in a similar style that we saw during Best of Both Worlds, and then are replaced with a location for a borg centered episode?

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Since it is a game, you will probably just "Respawn" with some kind of determent for a few minutes. After all being assimilated and not being able to play that toon anymore really sucks when you are paying for the game.

Although on a Trekker standpoint, it would be coll to be assimilated and be able to play that for a limited time. However more then likely the first option will happen.

It's a game after all and no one ever dies in an MMO... You would never here the end of the QQ-ing if player death in an MMO was final...

I'm not talking about from an individual player standpoint, I'm talking about the battle being lost(like Wolf 359).

[Musterion]

I reallly hope they take that system or planet that we fight over, or at least destroy it (meaning that we have to rebuild which means our faction's resources take a huge hit). Perhaps this starts a series of quests to retake the area?

Or Q will save the day.

[Ravas]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

I expect every faction to have territories. So if evil BORG attack and win, it would be cool if they conquer certain territory that was attacked. Later players will have to mount attacks to reclaim territory back to their faction. :)

[Norexan-Guy]

Hopefully these kind of attacks would happen in several phases, with several "task forces" of every level.

[Malakili]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

I'd be pretty shocked if there were any dynamic consequences. I'd love their to be, but I just don't see Cryptic going in that direction. It seems to me that Cryptic is trying to sort of create a facade of the Star Trek universe that players can sort of look at and getting the feeling of being in the show or movies, rather than create a living breathing virtual star trek universe. The former will actually probably make for a much more FUN game, but there will always be a part of me hankering for the latter.

[Paulo999]

hmmm this is a good one... obvoiusly the major locations will be immune (earth,Bajor,Qunos)

but lets see..player stbases, colonys... Unimportant planets (vulcan) wouldnt :O

[runrhino06]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

Well we know that in STTNG and Voyager, an individual Borg drone can be disconnected from the Collective and with proper therapy. 30 years later, with all the extensive studies upon the Borg, I'm sure the technique has improved some what. This being said, in terms of the game, could the consequence actually be space stations, starbases and possibly planets being assimilated?? Unassimilating them would be a reasonable action on a larger scale than before, although, I'm sure it would take some combined efforts. The fact that Borg could assimilate stations, starbases and even planets also brings up the thought that they could also build upon that foundation stations of their own to mount more invasions and defenses.

[ransomwk]

If the Borg invade, and the players fail to stop them before they reach an inhabited planet, I would expect that planet to be assimilated, and start producing more Borg ships. Those ships would in turn go out and start attacking and assimilating other NPC ships, stations, and worlds. All this until the players finally beat them back and kill the last drone.

BUT

Doing this might not be considered fun by one of the devs, and as such the idea would be scrapped until such time as the player base demands it at a high enough volume. I also wonder if it would even be possible given the setup being implemented by cryptic. If too much of the map is instanced strictly for the player or group that goes in, then this idea would be impossible to implement properly given its reliance on persistence in the game world. We would need to be able to form ad hoc fleets and task forces to go after Borg ships before they reach a target, when they are still out in open space. Also, we'd have to account for the possibility of one task force of 40 players beating the Borg in instance 1, and another loosing in instance 2....what then is the outcome in that particular sector?

[Musterion]

If the Borg invade, and the players fail to stop them before they reach an inhabited planet, I would expect that planet to be assimilated, and start producing more Borg ships. Those ships would in turn go out and start attacking and assimilating other NPC ships, stations, and worlds. All this until the players finally beat them back and kill the last drone.

BUT

Doing this might not be considered fun by one of the devs, and as such the idea would be scrapped until such time as the player base demands it at a high enough volume. I also wonder if it would even be possible given the setup being implemented by cryptic. If too much of the map is instanced strictly for the player or group that goes in, then this idea would be impossible to implement properly given its reliance on persistence in the game world. We would need to be able to form ad hoc fleets and task forces to go after Borg ships before they reach a target, when they are still out in open space. I would assume a fair bit of warning from advanced sensor stations and outposts, which would account for getting enough time to put together a fleet.

Perhaps they could have only one invasion going at a time, across all instances, and a cross-instance channel opens or broadcast goes out, so that players can form a fleet to fight back the invasion (although a "Borg Invasion in instance 2!" would really ruin immersion). It all really depends on how heavily instanced the game is and I'm going by CO, which is pretty damn heavily instanced.

There's also the nagging worry that they'll just handle borg invasions like Mega-Destroid in CO, where if you fail, they baddies just despawn. :(

Also, we'd have to account for the possibility of one task force of 40 players beating the Borg in instance 1, and another loosing in instance 2....what then is the outcome in that particular sector?I really do hope they figure out a way to resolve this this. It's a similar worry to PVP/competitive PVE, and the "meaningfulness" of that.

[Malakili]

I really do hope they figure out a way to resolve this this. It's a similar worry to PVP/competitive PVE, and the "meaningfulness" of that.

I don't expect to see much "meaningfulness" in this game, for the simple reason that it is going to be sharded/instanced zones. Which basically means that the idea of persistence will be less important that the experience of the individual players or small groups.

I expect the game to FUN, but if I want a space game where my decisions matter, I'll play EVE. (which is not a knock against EVE or STO, both can be fun)

[jpinks]

I totally agree about wanting the Borg to assimilate planets, I think it is great and I would love to see it. What I dont understand about this is if they want to make it feel like Star Trek movies and TV shows which is Cryptic's stated purpose, other than a Wolf 359 scenario or Dominion War, when do you ever see more than the main characters ship (ie players ships) teamed up with others. Dont get me wrong it does happen. I just think they are going to need quite a bit of this type of action on a smaller scale to make grouping up feasible to what Cryptic says its intention is with this game. I mean it could be used as a helluva stepping stone to some Massive Conflicts if done properly which to me would give a real epic feeling to loosing a Borg incursion or even Romulan, Cardassian etc.

[Manx]

I've wondered about this myself on occasion. I kinda hope that, if the Borg win, the sector that was attacked gets taken over.

Reclaiming the sector could involve missions like, rescue convoys of refugees, destroy stock piles of materials that the Borg want to use to build a transwarp hub, destroy the top secret research lab that the Borg have their eye on, etc.

Still, Malakili has a point; the Borg would only win in specific instances, this could make for a rather inconsistent game world; unless the players were locked into that instance until the sector is reclaimed.

I don't expect to see much "meaningfulness" in this game, for the simple reason that it is going to be sharded/instanced zones. Which basically means that the idea of persistence will be less important that the experience of the individual players or small groups.

I expect the game to FUN, but if I want a space game where my decisions matter, I'll play EVE. (which is not a knock against EVE or STO, both can be fun)

[Ravas]

Players locked into that instance? You mean they wont be able to play if they loose?

[Manx]

Players locked into that instance? You mean they wont be able to play if they loose?

No. I mean, when a player who was present at a Borg victory enters that region of space, they will always go to the instance in which the Borg won; otherwise, whether or not the Borg are in control of the region could change with every visit (which would be kinda random).

[jpinks]

No. I mean, when a player who was present at a Borg victory enters that region of space, they will always go to the instance in which the Borg won; otherwise, whether or not the Borg are in control of the region could change with every visit (which would be kinda random).

See thats one of my problems with them instancing so much. It just seems that much of this kind of victory or loss is meaningless to the majority of players. If there is a fleet action taking place and you were in a winning version of the instance you couldnt go and help a friend do the mission if it was a fun one.

[klingon1021]

If the Borg wins they Assimulate the inhabatants of that sector and everyone in the battle looses rep points, so make sure yo take plenty of ships into battle with you.

Just thinking, now I have a head ache, thanks.

[Tain]

What happens if players fail in a "Borg event"?


BAD END

[fyreblayd33]

Well honestly if they have a shard system like it seems they are going to then there can be no losses. Because if one shard wins and another loses because there was hardly anyone on that one they can not have the effects just be on one shard. If that were the case you would have an entire borg shard that no one would ever play on. So really there will be no penalty if the borg kick butt. At least I do not see a way for them to be able to institute this.

That is a fundamental flaw with a shard system is that there can be no real cause and effect in place.

Now if it is just one large server like say EVE then they could easily institute things like if the borg got to a planet then the planet stops production for a set amount of time because everyone was assimilated and you have to recolonize a planet. Or maybe the borg take over a small system and you have to take it back.

[khaless]

borg gets to earth and sudenly data comes on enterprise and fires 1 torp and BOOOM! :)

[ransomwk]

Since cryptic seems to be averse to consequences (like only going back to a check point if you get killed), I would expect that it will be impossible to lose a Borg event. If a player task force does get wiped out by a Borg invasion, I expect to see some NPC ship come racing in and shoot off a few of those super torpedoes from the Voyager finale. Basically I expect cryptic to pull a deux ex machina.

[Musterion]

Since cryptic seems to be averse to consequences (like only going back to a check point if you get killed), I would expect that it will be impossible to lose a Borg event. If a player task force does get wiped out by a Borg invasion, I expect to see some NPC ship come racing in and shoot off a few of those super torpedoes from the Voyager finale. Basically I expect cryptic to pull a deux ex machina.

This makes me a sad federali :( it would be great if they had the "structural integrity" to at least try out Borg events with consequences. The whole competitive PVE thing gives me some hope that they might try it.

[Kazzy]

I'd also like to see failed Borg events have permanent effects like the loss of a planet and then a sector until players could end the invasion.

If the Borg got too powerful then I would expect GM's to be able to fight them back themselves until they got to a manageable level so they don't assimilate earth which would probably be no fun

And then when we (as a server) defeated the invasion, the Borg would eventually come back in a few weeks more powerful than ever (as obviously our ships would be powerful as well and there would be more powerful ships)

[Nindran]

we point them in direction of the Klingon home world :p

[tuseroni]

i will have to appologize now, im more of a star trek nerd than an MMO nerd, so im not aware of what the term "instanced" means. by context i take it to mean something outside of the normal opperations of the server (not shared by everyone on the server only a select few) which to me sounds terrible. though as a computer nerd too...i can understand the desire to do that.

but as for consequences to losing a borg invasion, one thing i was thinking was that the assimilated would become part of the invading. so for instance i sent a fleet of 20 and first my buddy bit it, he wasnt destroyed...his ship was assimilated...now its a borg ship (the actualy player respawns, but there is another ship like his but with borg markings) and it comes shooting at me. ship 2 is about to be assimilates but activates self destruct instead. this goes on til half the fleet is assimilated...we get spanked hard basically, the bases in that area get equally spanked, and then the planet gets assimilated. now we have a bunch of borg bases in the area, the planet is now completely desolate, all life, all technology, everything just scooped up and eaten by the borg, using those resources they build their own unimatrix in that area, using the new drones from the planet they mount a large fleet of cubes, those cubes go out in all dirrections threatening the 8 sectors bordering them. and it follows normal viral outbreak patterns. then a bunch of different people from all over are called to wipe them up, after a lot of work their bases begin to fall, and the outbreak is pushed back to its origin. unimatrix in that area is destroyed, some borg goodies are recovered (such as borg improvements to assimilated ships...maybe even a de-assimilated bridge officer)

but if instancing means what im getting from the context that would be impossible, since more than one person can be playing the same map at the same time with different outcomes. i personally had hoped that different fleets would come together to fight off things like this. because this really makes for a quite difficult enemy, esspecially as it gets bigger (of course to keep it fun, as the borg get stronger, so too does starfleet send some strong NPCs, including perhaps the enterprise if the threat is TOO big)

[player007]

Yes we need species 8472 or try to find or get the weapon voyager have in the end of the show.But still that can be cool to be fed or klingon if you can stop the borg and get somthing for it like a new tec.anyway i hope that somthing appen if you win or lose.:D

[rebeccasandoval]

here is my thoughts.

The borg will only attack if they are player controled. I doubt that, and I don't think you can create a Borg character. however, if that is the case the territory will be the orginal factions and only the NPCs die and respawn over a cetrain amount of time, and players spawn at the "graveyard" but in the end the attacked territory still remains in the hands of the original owner (IE Federation)

The more likely possibility is the Borg are NPC only and they keep to themselves until you come and visit them in their territory. Boreing, but more likley.

I must admit the idea of the borg or even any other faction taking territory from another faction that spawns new quests sounds not only cool but would keep the game fresh. And I say let the borg take earth. That could cause a ton of quests just evacuating and dozens more getting it back!

[The.Grand.Nagus]

The borg will only attack if they are player controled.

The Devs have already stated that there will be "events" where the Borg attack, and they arent player controlled. This is pretty common practice in most MMOs, where NPCs will spawn in unusual areas every so often and the players have to defeat them.

[Malakili]

i will have to appologize now, im more of a star trek nerd than an MMO nerd, so im not aware of what the term "instanced" means. by context i take it to mean something outside of the normal opperations of the server (not shared by everyone on the server only a select few) which to me sounds terrible. though as a computer nerd too...i can understand the desire to do that.
)

Normally this is what Instance means in the MMO context yes. In this game, the entire world will be a set of isntances, as near as we can tell. (sometimes this is also called sharding, so "shard" could be synonymous with "instance"). Which is to say, if you are at Earth, there will be many instances or shards of Earth. So you might be at Earth 1 and I'm at Earth 5. The zones are exact replicas of each other, and they just have a player limit. From a technical perspective, this has obvious benefits, but it does destroy the concept of persistence and a coherent game world in return.

I would vastly prefer something like EVE Online, but EVE is unique, and they are constantly pushing the envelope in terms of server technology to make sure their game runs with 100s or 1000s of people in the same place.

In any case, Cyptic seems to be more interested in allowing people to recreate the experience of the TVs and Movies rather than making the Star Trek universe as such. Of course, like the TV and movies, this means what we will probably get is a series of "sets" and "episodes" rather than a seemless universe.

[tuseroni]

shame too. i had hoped to see a more dynamic world...more of a bottom up approach (think emergent behaviour) you set some main guidelines, you make methods for interactions. and then you let the world kinda play itself out. maybe take a deistic aproach and ocassionaly interfere with thing, shake things up. but for the most part let the people IN the world MAKE the world.

but i can understand how this can be a noticable problem technologicaly (in terms of programing its simpler, but then you have problems with bandwidth, server space, etc.

now one thing i was thinking would help to deal with server space issues is following the freenet model and store all data amongst all people ON the server. (in small chucks encrypted and broken up redundantly across all computers connected to the network. because the data is broken up and heavily encrypted its not possible to know what data your node HAS. for the company there is no issue of bandwidth nor storage because its completely decentralized. its not one company giving out big bits of data to everyone on the server, instead everyone gives data to everyone on the network, one person requests it and then the request bounces around til they get it. not sure if its more efficient though in terms of bandwidth. though it does still allow the main company to make changes to data, to upload changes, to administrate (such as banning people...though only accounts...you can delete an account but they could still make another since you have no way of knowing where a request is coming from.)) it would also be ironic in that its kinda like the collective ^_^

but obviously that wont be the case...which unfortunately means we are stuck with instances...

[Varrangian]

Perhaps I am an old dog and don't care for new tricks, but one of the reasons I enjoy MMO's is specifically because they do not try to tell my story for me.

What I mean is that by making things like a Borg invasion have implications for the game world you create a linear game, a game of two options - the Borg is defeated or the Borg advances. This is the big reason why SWTOR has 0 appeal for me, so many of my decisions are made for me.

Yes playing a more open ended game with fewer consequences for success or failure requires more imagination, but it gives me more options.

I love single player RPG's where the story is there for me to live through, but I never get to live my own story in them. In MMO's I live my own story, even if I have to imagine more of it. There are quests which are linear, but they generally have no profound effect on my character, they are a story, but it is generic and the consequences for the quests a minimal.

Perhaps I am in the minority, but that is the experience I want, I want to live MY Trek experience, not one a developer thought I'd like. Not one that has two choices be they good vs. evil or success vs. failure.

[adamflux]

I'm an advocate of FvF play having meaning, such that if the klingons controlled a certain base then klingon faction members would have an advantage.

I would say that a Borg incursion could be a unique event in which players from either faction could join together to defend a planet, just temporarily of course, but it's the Borg after all.

If these players were to fail, then the planet in question would be unavailable and neither faction would get it's resource or bonus until one of the groups succeeded in driving out the Borg from the FvF zone that they were now occupying.

that would make failure meaningful, not require player death, and make reclaiming assimilated planets a worthwhile objective.

[tuseroni]

you dont make a linear game, you make a dynamic game, the complete opposite. and its not just YOUR choices which have consequences, but the choices of other players. everyone affects the world in which they live.

you said there are two outcomes: the borg is defeated, the borg advance. perhaps in so much as most anything can be broken into such binary logic. but on a grander scale, if a battle is lost here is can cause a shift in the balance of power between the federation and the borg, such that the borg grow stronger and threaten more areas. whats more the individual battle can have large stretching consequences (a loss of resources not being the least of concerns)

when the borg have a foothold in one sector they can go on to other sectors making MORE battles. the loss of a single battle can cause a large set of battles over a larger area (now instead of a battle in ONE sector its a series of battles in EIGHT sectors. if they take each of those sectors their influance grows even more. and with each successive victory THEY grow stronger, while WE grow weaker.

and you may not have even been a part of the battle. you could be getting assaulted by borg because the people sent to take them out failed...and then others failed. and they got a foothold in that sector...now borg are knocking on your doorstep.

this is no more telling your story for you than going outside and being hit by a car is that guy trying to control your life. its a random variable with profound lasting effects that may or may not ALTER your story as you were making it.

also in my last post...the freenet example may be bad...it seems bandwidth issues are aplenty with that...though it could still be adapted...freenet focuses on the anonymity, if you dont need that some of the methods are unnecessary and can be streamlined.

[Varrangian]

you dont make a linear game, you make a dynamic game, the complete opposite. and its not just YOUR choices which have consequences, but the choices of other players. everyone affects the world in which they live.

you said there are two outcomes: the borg is defeated, the borg advance. perhaps in so much as most anything can be broken into such binary logic. but on a grander scale, if a battle is lost here is can cause a shift in the balance of power between the federation and the borg, such that the borg grow stronger and threaten more areas. whats more the individual battle can have large stretching consequences (a loss of resources not being the least of concerns)

when the borg have a foothold in one sector they can go on to other sectors making MORE battles. the loss of a single battle can cause a large set of battles over a larger area (now instead of a battle in ONE sector its a series of battles in EIGHT sectors. if they take each of those sectors their influance grows even more. and with each successive victory THEY grow stronger, while WE grow weaker.

and you may not have even been a part of the battle. you could be getting assaulted by borg because the people sent to take them out failed...and then others failed. and they got a foothold in that sector...now borg are knocking on your doorstep.

this is no more telling your story for you than going outside and being hit by a car is that guy trying to control your life. its a random variable with profound lasting effects that may or may not ALTER your story as you were making it.

also in my last post...the freenet example may be bad...it seems bandwidth issues are aplenty with that...though it could still be adapted...freenet focuses on the anonymity, if you dont need that some of the methods are unnecessary and can be streamlined.

You simply cannot design an MMO to have infinite possibilities in outcome. Even if a game like SWTOR offers more than two options (which from everything I've seen they won't), they will not offer more than 3 or 4 options. The nature of an MMO is that you have to paint with a broad brush or you effectively create a RPG with MMO options.

What you describe does not change that the two options or success or failure. In fact what you describe sounds like a nightmare because now suddenly my game experience is dependent on gamers I've never met. If I have to spend a week in the hospital with my father, and I come back to find that my fellow gamers failed a Borg event and now I have to fight them at every turn, I'm not going to be terribly happy.

The car accident example actually goes to prove my point. In real life I have no control over the effects of "fate", I don't pay $15 a month to live in the real world, I pay it to escape it and to actually have control over my gaming experience. By forcing consequences upon me not just for my actions, but for those of people I don't even know you guarantee that I will never give them my monthly subscription.

[ussequinox]

It would be awesome to have a dynamic universe. However I'm sure there are many that don't share my opinion. The ramifications of decisions being made would get the adrenaline pumping much more effectively than knowing one would respawn if they fail. However if it started having ramifications such as creating new or different timelines, that would create a major headache. In that regard I"m like Janeway, I want to avoid temporal incursions at all costs.

[tuseroni]

to me it sounds like a living breathing universe. personally i LIKE seeing my choice have some effect on the world. i hate playing a game and doing something only to see NOTHING changed. an example would be RO, i was playing that and one quest had me save a guy trapped in ice, i did the mission and thawed him out, got the reward...and he promptly returned to being frozen in ice. nothing i did mattered.

and as for the binary "success or failure" its true those are the only TWO posibilities you either succeed or you DONT succeed, this is more or less a taotology...and pretty much true in games as well as life. but thats not to say that there are two scripted events one for if you succeeed and one for if you fail. the event isnt scripted and neither would the consequences be. so its not like "if succeed do this else do that" or more of a ripple effect.

and its true that this person failing to stop the borg can have bad consequences for other people, but other people can go clean them up. it would even be nice to be IN SF command sending people to certain sectors. then its almost like playing a game of chess or GO or a mix of the two. of course the ships which ARENT ai driven may just chose to ignore you...which would suck...but it would also suck to be a player and be ordered around by another player when you want to go do something else. of course the borg would never be allowed to become such a huge threat as to disrupt too many peoples play. there would be lots of ways to clean them up before they grew too big. as well as potential rewards for defeating the borg in various sectors.

but of course i suspect you and me have different goals for the game. to me its not to escape reality...its because i frikken love star trek, and playing in the ST universe would be fun.

[mwalker]

There would most likly be some warning form starfleet. To give players a chance to prepare ships and so on. Failing will have to have consiquinces or the tension wont be there. It should hurt to fail. Perhaps if you fail your charater would have to refit, and could not enter that zone for a time period, or till after the event.

[FaeryFire]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

It's going to follow the modern MMO model. So no, no lasting consequences. And probably no penalty.
It's what players want, penalties are "unfun".

[Loekii]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

I would settle for Cryptic script a resolution, where if players are failing, that Iconic NPCs come and turn the tied in favor of the players (even pushing it to a player victory if need be).

What I would really like to see is a 'defeat' theme for a few days -- sort of like how in WAR, they talked about the losing faction suffering from a loss (fewer missions, city destroyed, fewer npcs, etc). In STO, this could be in the form of reduced npc traders and damage to some planets, systems, starbases, etc.

Granted it would eventually 'reset', which would have to be a suspension of disbelief (because the reality of it taking years to recover would just be unfun), but I feel that would make for a lively experience.

[fyreblayd33]

Perhaps I am an old dog and don't care for new tricks, but one of the reasons I enjoy MMO's is specifically because they do not try to tell my story for me.

What I mean is that by making things like a Borg invasion have implications for the game world you create a linear game, a game of two options - the Borg is defeated or the Borg advances. This is the big reason why SWTOR has 0 appeal for me, so many of my decisions are made for me.

Yes playing a more open ended game with fewer consequences for success or failure requires more imagination, but it gives me more options.

I love single player RPG's where the story is there for me to live through, but I never get to live my own story in them. In MMO's I live my own story, even if I have to imagine more of it. There are quests which are linear, but they generally have no profound effect on my character, they are a story, but it is generic and the consequences for the quests a minimal.

Perhaps I am in the minority, but that is the experience I want, I want to live MY Trek experience, not one a developer thought I'd like. Not one that has two choices be they good vs. evil or success vs. failure.

Ok let's put this into real life terms. The following is an example.

I am in the US Army and I know that the Russian Army is about to attack a certain city while we are in a state of war. If the US Army does nothing the Russian Army takes the town. If we move to stop them and we lost the Russian Army takes the town. If we move to stop them and win then the US Army maintains control of the town.

This is cut and dry real life you either succeed or you fail. There is no alternate reality for each person. It is called a game world. Not a single person game. I want the actions of many to have impacts. It makes it seem more real, more alive, and more vibrant. It would be an ever changing world. This would just have the impact of making the game that much more of a draw for a lot of people. After all this is an MMO where others actions should have an impact on the way things are in the game. Now I am not saying take it to the point where say the Klingon's can totally take over as that would be no fun. Make there a line were no matter what it can not be crossed. But there should be impacts from what people do. This is a game where there is a state of war. Bad part with it is that if there are not action and reaction it is a never changing war and nothing you or your entire fleet or entire side can do to change anything in the game. That to me is not a fun thought.

I would love for someone to make a living breathing game world where actions can impact others. I think that a lot could be learned from a game like EVE where players can take systems and sectors but they can be taken back. But there are areas that can not be taken and where things are very controled. It also proves that a single server can work. A world like that and STO put together could make a living breathing game world where actions do have cause and effect but only to a certain extent. This way it would not force you into anything. You still have a choice. Go to the hazardous area or stay in the safe areas. You could play your entire game in the safe area. Just like you could live your life in as much safety as you can surround yourself with. Or you can take it to the edge and risk everything.

[GMQue]

Well you'll have a tag on your name Asslaminated 20x.



Resistance is floor tile!

[Joles]

Ok let's put this into real life terms. The following is an example.

I am in the US Army and I know that the Russian Army is about to attack a certain city while we are in a state of war. If the US Army does nothing the Russian Army takes the town. If we move to stop them and we lost the Russian Army takes the town. If we move to stop them and win then the US Army maintains control of the town.

This is cut and dry real life you either succeed or you fail. There is no alternate reality for each person. It is called a game world. Not a single person game. I want the actions of many to have impacts. It makes it seem more real, more alive, and more vibrant. It would be an ever changing world. This would just have the impact of making the game that much more of a draw for a lot of people. After all this is an MMO where others actions should have an impact on the way things are in the game. Now I am not saying take it to the point where say the Klingon's can totally take over as that would be no fun. Make there a line were no matter what it can not be crossed. But there should be impacts from what people do. This is a game where there is a state of war. Bad part with it is that if there are not action and reaction it is a never changing war and nothing you or your entire fleet or entire side can do to change anything in the game. That to me is not a fun thought.

I would love for someone to make a living breathing game world where actions can impact others. I think that a lot could be learned from a game like EVE where players can take systems and sectors but they can be taken back. But there are areas that can not be taken and where things are very controled. It also proves that a single server can work. A world like that and STO put together could make a living breathing game world where actions do have cause and effect but only to a certain extent. This way it would not force you into anything. You still have a choice. Go to the hazardous area or stay in the safe areas. You could play your entire game in the safe area. Just like you could live your life in as much safety as you can surround yourself with. Or you can take it to the edge and risk everything.

I wonder why people always use the Russians when making examples of combat with the US. Why not some others, like the Chinese? >.<

[fyreblayd33]

I wonder why people always use the Russians when making examples of combat with the US. Why not some others, like the Chinese? >.<

Well I was in the Army and we are trained against Russian tactics and weapon systems in mind. The reason is that other than the US this is the most famous battle tactic not to mention that they sell their weapon systems to anyone. The AK 47 is a russian assault rifle look at where you can find that one. Damn where can I get a T-80 I got some revenge to take.

[Nanoteki]

Lets assume players can actually fail in a Borg event. I would think that we can infinitely respawn we can not ever loose unless there is a time limit to respond and destroy the borg attack.

Okay lets say we can loose an event and the Borg win. This would now make this Borg controlled space and they would make a beach head on a nearby planet making new ships every x minutes to attack nearby planets or systems. This would be a secondary event that continues from the first event until we manage to destroy the Borg entirely at the source. If we win the first event the Borg eventually attack once again in a second event set in a later time with greater numbers. This seems fun enough and simple enough for the devs to implement.

Now the cool part would be the ongoing build up for a full on borg event. Lets say there are known and actual in game encounters and confrontations with the single recon type borg vessels in various locations of known space. These encounters would be player hints or markings to let us know of the possible places for the borg event, while making it interactive at the same time for those who fought those recon borg ships.

Events have always been the best part of almost any mmorpg, but in my personal experience space ship based events are the most awesome. It is always cool when you gate or warp in to the area and see all the friendly ships that were downed and waiting for a jump. One can always enjoy the group small fleet attacks with a leader controlled group. Especially the team play with the higher ranked player(s) acting as the main sponge(s) while giving the lower ranked weaker players a time at it by giving them a chance to fire off a few rounds they otherwise could not without that admiral.:)

[BreachAndClear]

They might just sit there until they are driven out. And if Borg attacks are random, and not something that can predictably be sought out whenever a player fancies an engagement with them, I wouldn't think there would be any problem with this as at any given time there will probably be some players fighting them.

With factions being able to fight over territory in the neutral zone. I wouldn't mind if there was something similar implemented for the Borg. For instance, say there is a peripheral zone around the Federation and Klingon territories in which they could invade. Like the Neutral zone it would be a designated space in which Borg encounters could occur. The Borg would only be able to push only so far (they wouldn't proceed into the core of Federation or Klingon space , since we obviously can't have them assimilating Earth, etc..

So, planets might be able to be contested within this zone.

[Malakili]

shame too. i had hoped to see a more dynamic world...more of a bottom up approach (think emergent behaviour) you set some main guidelines, you make methods for interactions. and then you let the world kinda play itself out. maybe take a deistic aproach and ocassionaly interfere with thing, shake things up. but for the most part let the people IN the world MAKE the world.


Save yourself the heartache of waiting for this game and play EVE Online.

[ussawsomeness]

maybe when you respawn a borg version of you is made?
like being "assimilated" but respawning too?

[Dext]

We know there will be special events where the Borg attack. My question is, what happens if the players fail? Are there any actual consequences? On the one hand, obviously we cant have the Borg assimilating Earth or something like that. But on the other hand, if there are no consequences, the battle is kind of meaningless. Thoughts?

This would be something hard to say right now. When I know more info about how the in game working are then I can say.

But what I would like to see is a Borg Version of your ship take you place then you can re spawn like you would in a every day death an try to kill your olld ship an the other borg ships

[grimmace]

Since it is a game, you will probably just "Respawn" with some kind of determent for a few minutes. After all being assimilated and not being able to play that toon anymore really sucks when you are paying for the game.

Although on a Trekker standpoint, it would be coll to be assimilated and be able to play that for a limited time. However more then likely the first option will happen.

It's a game after all and no one ever dies in an MMO... You would never here the end of the QQ-ing if player death in an MMO was final...

They could make becoming part of the borg through assimilation an option upon getting taken by them, among with other more dire consequences should you choose to not want to become a borg type character.

I for one would welcome it as another different path, more choices is always a good thing. Of course it would have its downsides like anything but I have a thing for playing the bad guys in games where you can win with them since most movies always have them on the losing end of things.

[tuseroni]

yes i also think it would be nice if after being defeated your ship was replaced with an assimilated version and then you would respawn as detailed in this post:

but as for consequences to losing a borg invasion, one thing i was thinking was that the assimilated would become part of the invading. so for instance i sent a fleet of 20 and first my buddy bit it, he wasnt destroyed...his ship was assimilated...now its a borg ship (the actualy player respawns, but there is another ship like his but with borg markings) and it comes shooting at me. ship 2 is about to be assimilates but activates self destruct instead. this goes on til half the fleet is assimilated...we get spanked hard basically, the bases in that area get equally spanked, and then the planet gets assimilated. now we have a bunch of borg bases in the area, the planet is now completely desolate, all life, all technology, everything just scooped up and eaten by the borg, using those resources they build their own unimatrix in that area, using the new drones from the planet they mount a large fleet of cubes, those cubes go out in all dirrections threatening the 8 sectors bordering them. and it follows normal viral outbreak patterns. then a bunch of different people from all over are called to wipe them up, after a lot of work their bases begin to fall, and the outbreak is pushed back to its origin. unimatrix in that area is destroyed, some borg goodies are recovered (such as borg improvements to assimilated ships...maybe even a de-assimilated bridge officer)

[Sinclair]

Fail the mission, don't get the reward. That's probably bad enough.

[Malakili]

Fail the mission, don't get the reward. That's probably bad enough.

This is pretty much the common MMO solution right now, no penalties for losing, just rewards for winning.

Meh.

[adamflux]

One thought could be that "assimilate" be a special weapon ability of a cube, targeting a player with say 10% or less remaining hull integrity, and turning their ship borgy and hostile, while respawning the player elsewhere. The majority of enemy ships that the cube encountered could just be blown up wholesale, without bothering to assimilate crewmen.

Perhaps the player and their ship would temporarily join the borg faction in this event, fighting against the other players to earn XP the same as they were a few moments ago but now with nifty little borg buttons. when the assimilated player is destroyed, then the normal player respawns.

In either event, limiting the number of ships that the borg can assimilate, say with a cooldown, could eliminate a lot of these questions. Also, it's worth asking the devs to weigh in on these things specifically, as we've seen screens with drones taking phaser fire, so surely they've at least put some thought into the borg.

I sincerely hope that these interesting aliens do not simply take the place of zombies as they are used in other games.

[adamflux]

or, now that we've learned that crew percentiles has an effect on your ships performance, perhaps we can look for borg vessels to carry special attacks that ignore shields and hull to do direct damage to the crew supply, a la the Assimilator from Armada.

[KaptinJRN]

they've already said that Klingon and federation space will be affected by their wins/losses on the neutral zone

well, if they want and i hope they do,

make a borg front too, maybe in the direction of the delta quadrant
if the players lose, it would have the same effect as if the feds lose some battles to the Klingons.

[tburrfoot]

i highly doubt anyone would really want to be assimilated....
but ok here goes:
you lose, get assimilated, in order to get freed or rescued, you must complete a minimum of 2 missions, max of 5, as a borg officer/member.
now, this could be to attack known federation stations/ships since you are federation or the opposite if you are klingon.
meaning, you will take part in destroying your own faction for a time as a base for your loss to the borg.

i think if you really want it to be more life like (if this term can be used) you would need to do the above...simply losing a few % from a ships abilities or crews abilities is too miniscule of a penalty.