'Run and Gun' Ground Combat

[Moment_of_Epiphany]

Hello everyone.

I have watched all of the STO footage that is currently publically available. Amazing stuff! However I have one concern from what I have seen so far. Ground combat and the style of play dubbed 'Run and Gun'.

In the footage, a PC-controlled Captain and his entourage of Bridge Officers assault Klingons in corridors and open terrain, exchanging shots and indulging in melee with what I can only describe as 'careless bravado'.

I have a few issues with this. Namely:

- It weakens immersion to give any hint or impression that PC's or Bridge Officers are cavalier with their lives.
- It weakens immersion to suggest Star Fleet officers are tactically taught to 'stand up and shoot and accept incoming fire. That is what your shield belt is for'. ie. Are reliant on technological superiority.
- I believe it is canon for there to be weapon-systems that ignore shields.
- Disruptor weapons / phasers on maximum disintegrate you!

And the clincher for me.

- Each of the Star Trek series, does not feature 'Run and Gun' ground combat. But rather, 'Seek Cover and Maneuvre' ground combat. Miles O'Brien, Sisko et al, do not 'stand tall', but rather 'duck low' and engage in careful combat, because Miles wants to see Molly again - and Sisko would hate to see Jake orphaned. That is, by showing respect for their own lives, the heroes in the tv series add drama by treating the threat credibly.

I am concerned the 'run and gun' ground combat demonstrated so far, with its lack of a demonstrable cover system, does not do justice to the IP it is seeking to represent. Obviously, it early doors / a work in progress, but nonetheless, it concerns me.

Anyone else have thoughts / concerns on the ground combat displayed so far?

[Osias]

Everything i have seen so far is Great.

Keep in mind that all you've seen has come from a Work in Progress, infact i am pretty sure it says right in the corner "WORK IN PROGRESS" in pretty much all the shoddy Cam videos of people playing at PAX and what not.

I've heard devs at various times talk about the importance of finding cover and using the cover to your advantage, I've heard mention of "deployable cover" being in development (some sort of Shield Thing i'm guessing)


Personally i like what i see but i know it's not the finished product and is likely to be different in some way come release day.

[tburrfoot]

interesting...

i never really cared for ground combat in general in the ST world as it is.
stun? max stun? some people get killed and vaporized and others just get nicked....

i would gander then that ground combat in the stills are were everyone on a ST uniform has a full body shield that acts the same as aboard a starship.
if phasers are so powerful and can vaporize everything in its path it seems to be stupid to engage in combat and even try to hide behind anything as it is.

[Rota]

i hope it's not run and gun. Then all ground combat goes to those hyper-spastic gamers that can dodge explosions with a strafe run in other FPS's.

I hate it when that happens

Actually I'm just jealous because I can't do it. I'm a slow methodical player. In FPS's I have to find a corner to hunker down in and play the role of sniper. Which is nigh impossible, because those hyper-spazoids are never standing still for more than a nanosecond.

[Osias]

I think we're getting a Fire and Forget system then. You click them, you fire your phaser, It hits them. Even if they're zigging and zagging like a Moron.

The only thing to save them would be if they duck out of LoS as you try and use your ability, in which case you'll get the ol "Not in LoS" message i assume.

[sandman105]

I believe we will have "run and gun" to an extent. I do like the ground combat videos i have seen, though I find it a little amusing to see starfleet officers firing phasers at point blank range! Granted, it's a work
in progress, so im not to worried about it. I would however, like to see some sort of mechanic that would
force people out of cover so you can get your line of sight back.

Its my understanding that you can only fire when you have line of sight, so if everyone is using cover,
then that tells me you cant fire. Thats when you could target a computer console, blow it up, and force anyone near that console to reposition and thus gain line of sight back. But i suppose that would fall into
the catagory of having destructable enviornments, and im not sure if we are getting that feature.

Anywho, im optomistic about ground combat being fun.

[Archangelwoghd]

Best combat systems offer credible cover.

There's nothing quite like being in FPP and *peeking* around corners.

[Kaybok]

Listen to the Jupiter Broadcasting dudes about this topic:

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/?p=1239

They were at PAX and played STO space and ground combat. Ground combat is not only run and gun but its cover as well. When your personal shields go down you will be "defeated" (no one dies in a MMO) in one shot which is realistic to the shows. When your shields go down you can take cover behind objects which allows your shield to regenerate. Engineering officers can create forcefield barriers that allow you to duck for cover. Also, Klingon NPCs like hand-to-hand combat. They will run up to you and gut you with their bat'leth. Your shields won't protect you from hand-to-hand. That's where you will need a science officer to treat your wounds. They also mention how engineering officers have lots of technology for ground combat, such as statis fields (I guess similar to MMO roots). Listen to the Jupiter guys and you will see its not just run and gun.

[Moment_of_Epiphany]

I believe we will have "run and gun" to an extent. I do like the ground combat videos i have seen, though I find it a little amusing to see starfleet officers firing phasers at point blank range! Granted, it's a work in progress, so im not to worried about it. I would however, like to see some sort of mechanic that would force people out of cover so you can get your line of sight back.

Grenades would be fun. Grenades you throw. Grenades you slide. Grenades you pilot. Robotic grenades. With your Captain / bridge officer doing a crazy somersault, to fall to the ground, with a torn uniform and a burn to his cheek. Just like the series! :)

[sandman105]

Order my ship to lock on to the enemys biosignature and fire........

[ecsakron]

this game is going to be about blowing stuff up in space and killing mobs on the ground.

[Koba]

I do not think the ground combat is going to change all that much from what we have seen. Honestly, would it be fun to hide behind a rock or a door panel every time you fight? It would be lame.

Remember Vic Fontaine with dual disrupters in the alternate universe? That is what the game is going to be like. They added the personal shield generators to allow this. It was there way of getting around a cover system. Which is a good thing.

Seriously, it would not be fun to hide behind everything, and they want to make it an enjoyable experience. If I had a personal shield generator I would not necessarily hide behind everything anyway. May be if I was outnumbered....

In any case, I do not think people should get all fired up about a cover system, because I doubt from what we have seen that there is going to be some advanced cover system (minor if there is), and I applaud that there won't be.