Question to Klingons: Honor Non-Combatants??

[Kaybok]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?

[blujester]

Well regarless of the mechanics of the whole thing. If you ever need a badge from a PvP area and can't get it because of Klingons ...just call me and I'll make sure you get your badge. I like fighting ridge heads.


Bj

[Zael]

Honestly I would escort the guy, his fault if he attacks us, he pays for it. But if he is honest in his task then let him do it, I am all too accustomed to frustrating stuff that is only acquired inside said pvp zones and I would not want to be the douche to attack first for just a single kill. I would cloak and uninform him of my presence, should he make hostilities agaisnt us, it is his problem and he shall pay for it.

[Varrangian]

I get the feeling one of the reasons you see these kinds of things is to expose players to all variety of game play. It is sort of a way to get players to try something they are convinced they don't like.

Now Cryptic has said you can play the game and never have to participate in PvP, but I'm not sure if this applies to "accolades" (what they are called in STO) or not.

[DanaDark]

If his shap has any armarments... I'd attack him. It would be his fault for broadcasting his invasion. badges are a sign of honor, and if you want hoonor, you must earn it, especially in Klingon space.

[Nazter69]

Zael I am fed buddy but I am right there with ya if ya need something from the fed side as far as an badge or badges I would guard you, how ever I can not stop the random dill weed from firing on you. That would make me mad as could be, becuase that a kinda player made mission on the fly. It would make a cool badge to see a foe through troubled waters and get a badge for it.

[Kaybok]

Fleet leaders, what do you think? Will you have any policy on this topic?

[icemann448]

well here's my opinion,
since this is a MMO to boot, you have a couple points of view on this
1. you will have adolescent tweens that need to shoot anything that comes near them, and even if they lose they'll come back for me just to try to be "funny"
2. you have the carebear variety that will be nice and let ppl through and be a good happy community... which the OP is calling honorable or having honor to let them come in and get their perk and leave....
3. you'll have the person like myself that looks at this as a Star Trek MMO, and love Star Trek to death and would do anything to see this game played right(not like WoW carebears) and and if someone popped their little peice of crap Fedrat ship in where it's not suppose to be, i'd take it upon myself to do the Most Honorable thing and defend my Empire. if any Klingon fan/player would object to this type of action.... well quite honestly they're not Klingon then.....

just my two cents.

[Veglargh]

"if you enter pvp area you are fair game"

If you want to be non-combat don't enter!!!

[mwood1387]

I'd protect the person if he/she is in a weaker ship but if they're in some T4 behemoth they should be able to defend themselves really. Even if its from me. :D

[blujester]

You know... If a Klingon asked me to escort him through the nuetral zone to get a badge.... I would be surprized and suspicious. But I'd do it with due diligence. I would not make it easy to catch me in a trap.


Bj

[Stalazon]

"If it's red it's dead."

We're at war, folks.

[KiraYamatoX20A]

My personal opinion on this matter is as follows: Klingons will be Klingons and will attack ANYTHING they want to. Also, you have to remember that the Orions will be part of the Empire, too--and since the Orions are sorta like the Pirates of Star Trek, you might have an Orion Ship attack that Fed Ship to acquire some new loot and maybe a slave or two. So, if I were the Non-PvP Fed Captain needing to get something from the Neutral Zone, I'd contact other Fed Captains, see if I could scrounge up a friendly escort who would fend off any attackers. However, Since my STO Main is going to be commanding a Vigilant-Class, I'll probably be one of those Combat-Oriented Starfleet Captains who is asked to provide the escort in the scenario I've presented--and provide that escort I would. :D:cool:

[Kaybok]

well here's my opinion,
3. you'll have the person like myself that looks at this as a Star Trek MMO, and love Star Trek to death and would do anything to see this game played right(not like WoW carebears) and and if someone popped their little peice of crap Fedrat ship in where it's not suppose to be, i'd take it upon myself to do the Most Honorable thing and defend my Empire. if any Klingon fan/player would object to this type of action.... well quite honestly they're not Klingon then.....


WORF: "Agreed. If my people return to the old ways, no one will be safe." - DS9: The Way of the Warrior

This I fully understand as it relates to immersion and roleplay. But what I'm trying to get at is... What about OOC? Between you as two humans behind their keyboards?

[icemann448]

My personal opinion on this matter is as follows: Klingons will be Klingons and will attack ANYTHING they want to. Also, you have to remember that the Orions will be part of the Empire, too--and since the Orions are sorta like the Pirates of Star Trek, you might have an Orion Ship attack that Fed Ship to acquire some new loot and maybe a slave or two. So, if I were the Non-PvP Fed Captain needing to get something from the Neutral Zone, I'd contact other Fed Captains, see if I could scrounge up a friendly escort who would fend off any attackers. However, Since my STO Main is going to be commanding a Vigilant-Class, I'll probably be one of those Combat-Oriented Starfleet Captains who is asked to provide the escort in the scenario I've presented--and provide that escort I would. :D:cool:

Brilliant!!!! the more of you the better, i mean i would eventually get tired of killing Miranda's all day, but if the odds were in your favor the more fun i'd have.
and just to add another point, since this more than likely going to be one single server with different shards, i wouldn't recommend any Fedrat coming into the neutral zone, without the intentions of looking for a fight.....

[mezlabor]

If you enter the pvp zone you agree to pvp by virtue of entering that zone. If you want to avoid pvp avoid the pvp zones.

[wrussandrews]

Well if people prefer not to pvp then they really need to stay out of pvp zones. Back in UO I did honor non-combatant requests, provided I did not see the player pvp.

These days, that is not necessary as pvp tends to be consentual. Thus, stay out of the pvp zones.

[icemann448]

WORF: "Agreed. If my people return to the old ways, no one will be safe." - DS9: The Way of the Warrior

This I fully understand as it relates to immersion and roleplay. But what I'm trying to get at is... What about OOC? Between you as two humans behind their keyboards?

why play a game if you're not going to actually play it, if you're going to pretend that we're not at war, or that Klingon players are going to be nicey nice, then just stay out of the neutral zone, there's nothing saying you have to go in to get this perk, it would just be a nice thing to have or accomplish, but if you're not willing to play the game the way it's set up, then why play?

[Jetda]

First thing i wanna do with my buds is find out how to de-cloak you Klingons. So me and my friends will be in there lookin for ya so be good sports and hide :D your ooo so good at it until your target is half dead.

But to the point, I doubt we will see many instances like this and its like a guy in wow from alliance asking to walk through oggrimar i don't see it happening without a blood lusting mob appearing. especially if they announce their intentions first. lol

[Kaybok]

By some of your answers I get the feeling that you would have allowed D'Ghor to kill Quark in DS9 "The House of Quark". Where's the honor in that??

I think it's sad that a Miranda that is no threat and is in no way interested in PvP is blown up simply because it's there or because you can. I'm not talking about Klingons at war or roleplaying the defense of your Empire. I'm talking about kindness between trekkers. I'm not calling you griefers at all (I respect your opinions and if I was a PvPer I would probably post the same remarks because hey its a game and its what I enjoy) but this is the seed from which all griefing grows. I was hoping there would be more in the trek community to prevent some of this but it looks just as bad as in any other MMO.

Thanks for your comments and opinions.. it was very informative.

And yes, Cryptic will be loosing subscriptions if they don't protect players from griefers. Devs... hope you are reading.

[Tain]

I don't think the Klingons have a concept of "non combatant", save MAYBE children. When they go to war with a faction, its the entire population of the faction, not just its military. To a Klingon, a civilian is simply an adversary who has misplaced his or her weapon. They say as much in TOS, however things like Worf acting out holodeck programs pertaining to the slaughter of every man, woman and child in the city he was (virtually) attacking shows this to be a universal klingon view, even to this day. (the episode in question was "Rules of Engagement, Ds9)

[icemann448]

@ Mirror-Master
um protecting players from griefers? we're talking about a PvP zone, if you dont want to PvP then dont come into the zone.... there should be absolutely NO reason for a "non" PvPer type player to enter a PvP zone, even if it was to collect a cool perk, you should just ask yourself, well is it worth it? attempting the trek into a deadly zone.
no reason to curse the entire Star Trek community, and to say that this game is going to be like all other MMOs.... um..... it's an MMO...
fact of it is we(klingon or any other player like myself) we're not being "mean" we're not hating on the rest of the community, we're not griefing we're playing the game as it's made, if the devs would implement some sort of protection in a PvP area... i think they would lose a lot more subs than if they didn't have it..... um be a little more realistic dude....

[J1983uk]

If you go into the pvp area then your fair gain, especially if your stupid enough to come right up to our boarders and announcing that you are there, can you say "death wish" ?

Power to the Empire!!

[Paratus6]

As the OP states, if there exists some "perk" or "badge" or whatever in the full PvP zone of Neutral Space, then it begs to reason that the intention of the Devs is to encourage grouping by non-PvP'rs with PvP'rs to aquire this alleged "perk" or "badge"...
Right?
Sure, I understand what the OP is driving at..."honor" among Klingons and all that (in both a RP way and a RL way), but honor goes both ways, y'know.
Fedrat honor is not all that different from Klingon honor in the ST Universe. Both have histories of questionalble "honor" under varying circumstances. The basic understanding of this fact (in the IP) was largely the basis of commonality used by the diplomats that led to the first treaty to begin with (also canon)...
Right?
In light of this, I would say that if you try to enter a full PvP zone with the expectation of impunity simply by making "Honorable" chat deals with Klingons or Feds, you are just at much of a risk of being attacked as if you hadn't...maybe even more so.

Think of it this way...What would Picard do vs what would Kirk do?
Riiiight.

[mezlabor]

I find it incredibly presumptuous of you to assume that your somehow entitled to a badge perk etc from a pvp zone without pvping. Would you also then assume that your entitled to the loot from a raid without doing the raid?

And no I'm not a real big pvper when this forum first opened I argued long and hard for consensual pvp.

[Trowa824]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?

If it was me and I was a klingon, I would see what I can get from you for doing such a thing... Like having you take me to earth would do great...

Since this is great for RPing.

I would do choice C and see what you up to and if I don't like it, it goes to choice D.

But at first I will see what you will give me.

[fyreblayd33]

Well just my two cents I would cloak come up your tail and make sure you die well.

Now even if you do have nice people out there that will let you through that is just those people. They can not control the actions of anyone else in the sector. Now if you ask them to broadcast not to attack you what people here is:

Hey there is a soft target coming into Klingon space at point x. Come and feast on the glory of battle.

Now I am not saying that I would kill you just because I am a jerk. I would kill you because I am a Klingon and you are a federation member and we are at war. I will not hold back just because you want that POI. I would not ask anyone to hold back on me going for a POI in Fed Space. As a matter of fact I would want someone to try and stop me.

[Veglargh]

hey Mirror-Master just let me know when you enter the neutral zone and I will personally "escort" you!!!

[Sumdian]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

NO If you enter the neutral zone i will KILL you :D

[bothan]

Every player vessel is armed and, therefore, is a threat. If you can find Klingon players who will agree not to attack your ship, good for you. But remember that you have to trust that those players with whom you have made an agreement will keep their word, just as they have to trust that you won't suddenly fire on them while their guard is down. And, no matter how many Klingon players you think you can trust, there's always an off chance that some Klingon with whom you have not made an agreement will stumble upon you in the Neutral Zone. If you want to increase your chances of a successful mission, I'd suggest you get together an escort of Starfleet vessels to help you out, and not worry about trying to negotiate with Klingons.

Or, you can explore to your heart's content, secure in the knowledge that you'll be finding lots of cool stuff that those who spend all their time in the Neutral Zone won't. Should the PvPers complain about that?

[Kaybok]

@ Mirror-Master
um protecting players from griefers? we're talking about a PvP zone, if you dont want to PvP then dont come into the zone.... there should be absolutely NO reason for a "non" PvPer type player to enter a PvP zone, even if it was to collect a cool perk, you should just ask yourself, well is it worth it? attempting the trek into a deadly zone.
no reason to curse the entire Star Trek community, and to say that this game is going to be like all other MMOs.... um..... it's an MMO...
fact of it is we(klingon or any other player like myself) we're not being "mean" we're not hating on the rest of the community, we're not griefing we're playing the game as it's made, if the devs would implement some sort of protection in a PvP area... i think they would lose a lot more subs than if they didn't have it..... um be a little more realistic dude....

Bro, like I said I'm not calling you guys griefers as I know you are not. It's that line of reasoning which will lead the more immature players to grief (b/c no one defends non-combatants). If I'm going to get a badge in a pvp zone yes there is a risk and if you kill me once and leave me alone the next time so I can get the badge - that is acceptable. What I find not acceptable is when griefers use their numbers or bugs or geometry to trap players and kill them as many times as they come back knowing that this player only wants to complete their badge. And GM's in games have protected players from this behavior and have banned players as it is sometimes against the EULA. Yes, this is an extreme example but you see my reasoning.

Again, I'm not calling you griefers and I respect your opinion and your right to pvp or kill anyone in a pvp area. I am realistic and that is what a pvp area is for. I was simply trying to get a feel for what I might expect from other trekkers as I was hoping for more of a "carebear" attitude as you put it. I see that you don't want that and I respect how you feel. Like I said, I would feel the same way if I was a PvPer - no prob.

If Cryptic doesn't feel the need to put in a non-combat flag, perhaps it prevents you from PvP for 24 hours and you get reduced PvE xp for a week, something like that. If something like that isn't there then hey I'm sure you will enjoy blowing me up because I want that badge. I just hope you will only blow me up 1-2 times and after you see I'm no threat - leave me be. Isn't that fair?

And thanks very much to anyone who posted that they would escort or protect non-combatants in PvP zones. I find that highly admirable. I think we have to remember that yes, its a game, its a PvP area and PvPers love that aspect of the game just as much as yes, this non-threat enjoys the badge portion of the game just as much as I love pvp - let them get it and I will find a more challenging pvp opponent.

[Spacemanspiff]

Why are people so afraid to enter a pvp zone? If you die in an MMO you don't die in real life. This isn' t the matrix . . .

[Kaybok]

hey Mirror-Master just let me know when you enter the neutral zone and I will personally "escort" you!!!

Thank you, Veglargh and Qapla'! My avatar may look like a fedrat vulcan but I will have toons on both sides of the war. See you out there.

[fyreblayd33]

By some of your answers I get the feeling that you would have allowed D'Ghor to kill Quark in DS9 "The House of Quark". Where's the honor in that??

I think it's sad that a Miranda that is no threat and is in no way interested in PvP is blown up simply because it's there or because you can. I'm not talking about Klingons at war or roleplaying the defense of your Empire. I'm talking about kindness between trekkers. I'm not calling you griefers at all (I respect your opinions and if I was a PvPer I would probably post the same remarks because hey its a game and its what I enjoy) but this is the seed from which all griefing grows. I was hoping there would be more in the trek community to prevent some of this but it looks just as bad as in any other MMO.

Thanks for your comments and opinions.. it was very informative.

And yes, Cryptic will be loosing subscriptions if they don't protect players from griefers. Devs... hope you are reading.

Ok you are saying that you want trekers to act like trekers correct? Well last time I checked if you are an enemy of a Klingon they will attack. Period. No questions asked. No surrender terms as there is no taking prisoners. We are warriors plain and simple. We live for the glory of battle. Our blood burns with the fire of battle. We do not just turn a blind eye to it.

This is not griefing. This is just plain out what Klingon's do. Also how do we know that you do not have some new top secret weapon on that ship that makes it far more powerful than it appears? You invade our space you die. That is simple. You are our enemy you die. That is simple. Now you are both of those things at the same time what do you think the answer is?

[Veglargh]

Thank you, Veglargh and Qapla'! My avatar may look like a fedrat vulcan but I will have toons on both sides of the war. See you out there.

lol, the quotations around the word escort was and indication of irony.

[Kaybok]

lol, the quotations around the word escort was and indication of irony.

Oh really? Maybe I didn't see that because I was honestly considering applying to Blood of Kahless because I love your name and that you are a casual fleet.

[Kaybok]

Ok you are saying that you want trekers to act like trekers correct? Well last time I checked if you are an enemy of a Klingon they will attack. Period. No questions asked. No surrender terms as there is no taking prisoners. We are warriors plain and simple. We live for the glory of battle. Our blood burns with the fire of battle. We do not just turn a blind eye to it.

This is not griefing. This is just plain out what Klingon's do. Also how do we know that you do not have some new top secret weapon on that ship that makes it far more powerful than it appears? You invade our space you die. That is simple. You are our enemy you die. That is simple. Now you are both of those things at the same time what do you think the answer is?

Scroll up and re-read my friend. I said many times I understand the roleplay reasons for PvP and I support your opinion on that. Peace - no prob here.

[gmbosko1]

If implemented right, this kind of situation could lead to nice "open" PvP.

If implemented poorly, (Warhammer) then it will just be thirty zerging Klingons vs. 20 zerging Federation who are screaming for backup; all the while three science vessels are trying to get their exploration perk.


Full plate and packing steel, no peace in the PvP zone! I'll never forget what Worf said "The Way of the Warrior" when he warns the crew that "...there may be cloaked ships waiting..." when the Defiant reaches the front lines of destruction.

Bashir says something to the effect of, "That doesn't sound very honorable..." and Worf's awesome response, "In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."


We must protect the PvP zones!

[icemann448]

Mirror duder.... i think you're not getting it.
let's just say this. let's say you were a klingon and you wanted no NEVER pvp, then i'd honor that, and protect you if you would say need to go into the Neutral zone or even go into Fed space to accomplish a goal. i'd be there for you, and he would be a non-combatant, emphisis on NON. i would be there to protect him, but imho, you need to quit playing so much WoW, my man. last time i checked most Star Trek ships have a warp button, and if you dont like it warp away. so griefing in a sense has been taken care of.
wasn't it CZ that said it, that running was is the best thing to do if you dont want to die... i think that says it all.
i dont think you have anything to worry about when it comes to doing your little mission. just dont announce yourself in the neutral zone like a noob, go in, get your business done and get out. have some NoN combatant buddies there with you "just incase" I show up.......

[icemann448]

Oh really? Maybe I didn't see that because I was honestly considering applying to Blood of Kahless because I love your name and that you are a casual fleet.

now that's just F U N N Y

[Kaybok]

Mirror duder.... i think you're not getting it.
let's just say this. let's say you were a klingon and you wanted no NEVER pvp, then i'd honor that, and protect you if you would say need to go into the Neutral zone or even go into Fed space to accomplish a goal. i'd be there for you, and he would be a non-combatant, emphisis on NON. i would be there to protect him, but imho, you need to quit playing so much WoW, my man. last time i checked most Star Trek ships have a warp button, and if you dont like it warp away. so griefing in a sense has been taken care of.
wasn't it CZ that said it, that running was is the best thing to do if you dont want to die... i think that says it all.
i dont think you have anything to worry about when it comes to doing your little mission. just dont announce yourself in the neutral zone like a noob, go in, get your business done and get out. have some NoN combatant buddies there with you "just incase" I show up.......

I think I have been pretty nice and have not insulted anyone, please don't degrade the thread into that. First of all I have never played WoW - I was done with fantasy MMOs after Everquest. Secondly, I think it's very sad you assume I don't get it or that I don't know how to use a warp drive or that I announce my presence stupidly in PvP zones. I've been playing MMOs for decades and I played text based muds before that. If you don't get the purpose of my thread which was to see if PvPers on the enemy side would leave non-threats alone and not grieve them then there's nothing more to say to you. Very sad indeed. Good luck in your PvP.

[koraQ]

pffft, you enter the nuetral zone then your open for pvp. Being a Klingon you leave me no other choice but to seek out glory and Honor by destroying your garbage scow!

For the Empire, and Bloodwine!

[Spacemanspiff]

Enter Klingon space and you will be destroyed. That is all.

[J1983uk]

I think you have your answer, you enter PvP zone, go ready for battle. You know the Klingons sure will.

War burns in the heart of all true Klingons and only a Ferangi pahtk would accept an offer of bribary.

[icemann448]

I think I have been pretty nice and have not insulted anyone, please don't degrade the thread into that. First of all I have never played WoW - I was done with fantasy MMOs after Everquest. Secondly, I think it's very sad you assume I don't get it or that I don't know how to use a warp drive or that I announce my presence stupidly in PvP zones. I've been playing MMOs for decades and I played text based muds before that. If you don't get the purpose of my thread which was to see if PvPers on the enemy side would leave non-threats alone and not grieve them then there's nothing more to say to you. Very sad indeed. Good luck in your PvP.

not sad at all, i'm going to attempt to play the game as it's being made to play, that's all, no need to get offended, it just sounds like to me that you've had some issues with being camped over and over, in certain games. and i was trying to stress the point that i think this game is going to be totally different in the sense that almost no matter what you can probably get away from a fight, if you choose to.
and just for the record i'm not a "pvper" i'm a gamer, and i play games they way they're meant to be played, and if i was "infiltrating" Fed space or something and seen a "non" threat i would probably pass it by to go hunt for something more tasty,
however you started this forum asking if there was any "honor" in the STO community, and that in itself is pretty offensive, to say that if someone doesn't honor a request made then yes i TOTALLY agree with you, that if someone agrees to let you in, that's cool, they dont have to attack you, but what i meant by you "missing the point" is that 1 Klingon ship doesn't control the entire faction, and even if let's say i was there and asked everyone in that sector not to fire on you because i said so, who am i to tell someone how to play.
now if it was let's say BoK controlled territory, that might be a different story, as to us letting you into our area for a short time, but STO, to my knowledge, wont be set up that way, so it's all OPEN, to everyone.
so i would honor my word as a HUMAN and KLINGON(in game) i would not be a coniving Romulan and lie to you, FYI

[J1983uk]

Meh your not MY commanding officer, my crew demand battle. Dont assume that an agreement with one BoK will rule us all, unless of course the order does filter down from the top, but that I think would be unlikly to happen with a fedrat.

[icemann448]

Meh your not MY commanding officer, my crew demand battle. Dont assume that an agreement with one BoK will rule us all, unless of course the order does filter down from the top, but that I think would be unlikly to happen with a fedrat.

um that was my point, with what i said about if BoK made a "truce" per say, then i'd honor it...... .. .. ...

[J1983uk]

i feel my teath becoming sharper and my blood growing warmer the more I read this thread. I need to go polish my cannons.

[jamzgub]

im still unsure which side im going to choose in the long run,

but anyone i see in the pvp zone will be hunted without impunity, if i were to join a klingon fleet and were ordered to not attack an enemy of the empire, id leave the fleet and kill you anyway,!

Roleplay aside, its like a free meal ticket, and its fun to hunt a weaker prey just to toy with it.

only real way id want to play klinkers is if i could always get a group of 3+ people and go pvping alot

[navyjames]

Once I get my Galaxy class, I'm going to be spending a good deal of time on the neutral zone. Any Federation Captains looking for additional protection can certainly call on my aid. In Starfleet, we all help each other out. We're not Klingons. ;)

[Redshirt_40067]

I'm inclined from past PvP in other games to adopt the policy of Red = Dead at least in regards to combat vessels. If Cryptic will introduce non-combat ships or allow us to unfit weapons from a ship for use in these situations, it will possibly give both sides an out for escorting merchant/civilian vessels through the NZ. Both sides in past conflict, even the Romulans, had limited trade across borders, and would not as a policy attack said vessels. At least with the Klingons, individual captains would often follow their own codes and some would raid merchant ships or outright destroy them on sight.

[dodmarti]

I think I have been pretty nice and have not insulted anyone, please don't degrade the thread into that. First of all I have never played WoW - I was done with fantasy MMOs after Everquest. Secondly, I think it's very sad you assume I don't get it or that I don't know how to use a warp drive or that I announce my presence stupidly in PvP zones. I've been playing MMOs for decades and I played text based muds before that. If you don't get the purpose of my thread which was to see if PvPers on the enemy side would leave non-threats alone and not grieve them then there's nothing more to say to you. Very sad indeed. Good luck in your PvP.

I think the point most people are making is that if you make yourself an easy target in a zone designed for PvP combat you are asking to be victimized. Afterall, if you are a hunter looking for a quick meal why not take the easy prey and save yourself some effort? :D

[koraQ]

pfft easy targets are targeting practice and testing new weapon adjustments.

Give me a real fight any day. But do not take that as a sign of weakness }:)

[Peregrine_Falcon]

If someone enters an open PvP zone they should either be prepared to PvP or they shouldn't go into the zone. When people complain about being attacked in a PvP zone on the forums I just ignore them. When I enter a PvP zone it's always with a team and we expect to be attacked.

However, if someone asks me not to attack them because they are just in the zone to get the badge or whatever I comply. I have no wish to attack someone who does not wish to fight.

Many times in the City of Heroes MMO I have helped people on the opposite side to find the zone badge or assisted them in getting the Shivan temp power available in one of the open PvP zones.

I still do this to this day. I really enjoy PvP, but I'm looking for competitors, not victims.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

If this situation is even possible, it's a failure on the devs' part, not on players. Don't mix PvP and PvE content...simple enough. If the badge or perk or whatever is something you need to advance, it's a bad idea and you WILL alienate some players. If it's just a vanity thing, then you don't really need to go in the PvP zone.

That being said, it would depend if the ship in question would be a challenge. My days of DAoC roaming around DF or the Frontiers if I saw a lowbie XPing, I'd leave them be, unless I thought they were AFK grinding or they initiated combat. If they were what I thought would be a challenging fight I would attack. I suspect I will have a similar policy in this game. :)

[Zepath]

The solution here ... since we'll all be playing on the same server, is to have your friends escort you. People you know and trust.

That said, I'd be astounded if Cryptic requires anyone to go into a PvP area for anything that is non-PvP.

I don't even believe (at this point) that you will be able to wander into a PvP area. I'm fairly convinced at this point that all PvP will take place in instances you have to queue up for.

[Dogbertious]

If I were a Klingon, I would take each request on a case-by-case basis.

For instance;

Let's say a Federation ship, a small science vessel, wanted to visit the Neutral Zone to investigate strange readings from a Nebula. Now, being a stereotypical Klingon, I'll have little in the way of scientific equipment. Now, if I could convince the Federation Captain to share the information, I would gladly escort them to the Nebula, and escort them back out. The information could be of interest or use for the Empire, and there is little honour to be had attacking such a weak vessel.

Now, in a completely seperate instance, a Galaxy class vessel wishes to cross into the Neutral Zone in order to make contact with a major neutral trading colony. He claims his intentions are peaceful, but I know weapons are traded and fitted there as well. In that situation, I would not let him enter, and most probably attack. Too big a risk.

[DanaDark]

If I played a Klingon, I'd be honorable. If the ship was a challange for me (so close to my skill range, however that'd be determined) then I would attack. If I play as Orion, I might attack it no matter what. As a Fed, I would not.

It all depends on what I am.

OOC between two people, I'd hope this would force the person to get a friend or two to come along (This means they'd have to be social enough to MAKE friends).

So, by presenting this challange, I am forcefully improving their MMO expereince.

No thanks required!

[SenatorPardek]

I find it incredibly presumptuous of you to assume that your somehow entitled to a badge perk etc from a pvp zone without pvping. Would you also then assume that your entitled to the loot from a raid without doing the raid?

And no I'm not a real big pvper when this forum first opened I argued long and hard for consensual pvp.

Agreed on that one. Personally, I'm not a big pvp, but if you want the perk thats set up in a pvp zone, well, be prepared. Go to a Federation starbase and get a fleet to go with you. No one expects you to go in there alone.

[Korrific]

I'd protect the person if he/she is in a weaker ship but if they're in some T4 behemoth they should be able to defend themselves really. Even if its from me. :D
Heh, was just thinking the same thing. A weaker ship makes a tempting target, but victory would be meaningless. If PvP were free-for-all, I might even defend an underpowered interloper >:-]

That said, PotBS has a mechanic to address this. If you command your starter ship, you can go anywhere, even deeply contested regions, and be immune to attack. Of course, you can't attack other players, either. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for PvP zones.

[DanaDark]

I'd like to see a few options for PVP really. Different servers perhaps. I do enjoy the idea of full PVP... but I am also sane and like people to do such realistically. Something about 12 year olds running around screaming "oMGz pWn!!!" that bothers me.

Done well enough, a FULL PVP system can even entice a pretty much non-pvp type player such as myself...

In fact... PVP tends to make me play classes I normally refrain from lol. EQ2 rarely ever had fun playing a healer. Made one on PVP and grouped up... I NEVER hurt a fly, but healed my PVP group, that was quite fun to me.

Okay, Im rambling.

[Vuk]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me." Ummm , No.

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).

No

B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).

No, and that would just bring them looking to kil you.

C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.

Only so once you step foot in the zone they can kill you. This is not a Single player game.

D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

That's exactly how it would happen.

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

You speak of honor , yet you would have a side deliver to you a recognition to you without earning it. Where is the honor in that ? If you had and self esteem left you'd edit this post , delete it completely and post and apology.

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists). Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?

Okay , this is an MMO and this post has nothing to do with playing the game , other than to whine about your not being able to collect a percieved perk. You are only interested in being able to hold up some achievement , to inflate your ego , undeservedly.:mad:

[Vuk]

I'd like to see a few options for PVP really. Different servers perhaps. I do enjoy the idea of full PVP... but I am also sane and like people to do such realistically. Something about 12 year olds running around screaming "oMGz pWn!!!" that bothers me.

Done well enough, a FULL PVP system can even entice a pretty much non-pvp type player such as myself...

In fact... PVP tends to make me play classes I normally refrain from lol. EQ2 rarely ever had fun playing a healer. Made one on PVP and grouped up... I NEVER hurt a fly, but healed my PVP group, that was quite fun to me.

Okay, Im rambling.

This unforunately was hashed out long ago , and we're all on one server. It is a decision made by Cryptic and one we'll have to live with for better or worse.

[DanaDark]

Then by the gods (AKA fluffy kittens of doom), I say full fledged PVP.

I dislike PVP, oh yes I do. But there's the excitement of that risk of going places that I just love.

EVE does it quite well with having security ratings for certain sectors of Space. Can easily be done in STO as well, I'd imagine.

For example, the possibility of a single bird of prey "ganking" feds right next to a starbase... not so realistic. Not to mention the possibility of havig remote sensor stations designed to detect cloaked ships in high security space (Also prime targets for fleet wide pvp)

Meh, the options are many. And at this point, anything that will require people to cooperate with one another is well recieved in my book.

I just like the idea of being able to whack someone once or twice for being a totaly numb nut.

[Gadareth]

I'm not a PvPer by a long shot but if you enter the contested neutral zone your entering the war zone. To be honest its not reasonable to expect the Klingons or Federation hunters out there to ignore you, your an easy target and a quick profit.

Your best hope is to sneak in quietly hopefully while people are occupied in some other endeavor (a fleet battle for example) but the VERY last thing you want to do is announce your presence and expect them to honour it.

Lastly how is the person hearing your request to know if your genuine or not. After all if its a known fact that your allowed into the warzone uncontested by asking then sooner or later people will be doing so fraudulently to allow themselves the chance to blatantly fly into the contested area access the situation there and if they deem it a good opportunity call in the rest of their fleet ....

Just my 2 cents
Gadareth

[DanaDark]

Not to mention it'd make cloaking really far more valuable... a non-PVP player would have NO use for cloaking around other players.

[icemann448]

Heh, was just thinking the same thing. A weaker ship makes a tempting target, but victory would be meaningless. If PvP were free-for-all, I might even defend an underpowered interloper >:-]

That said, PotBS has a mechanic to address this. If you command your starter ship, you can go anywhere, even deeply contested regions, and be immune to attack. Of course, you can't attack other players, either. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for PvP zones.

oh geezzzz really?
you call yourself Klingon? or atleast you have a picture of one for an Avatar,
but who said it earlier in this thread? OnlyMaestro i believe, who quoted Worf in some nature

and Worf's awesome response, "In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."

no matter how big the opponent, if they are your enemy, VICTORY is always HONORABLE......

[mwood1387]

oh geezzzz really?
you call yourself Klingon? or atleast you have a picture of one for an Avatar,
but who said it earlier in this thread? OnlyMaestro i believe, who quoted Worf in some nature

and Worf's awesome response, "In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."

no matter how big the opponent, if they are your enemy, VICTORY is always HONORABLE......

DS9 - Return to grace. Kira and Dukat had to goad the Klingons in to a fight by attaching a planetary disruptor to their ship because the Klingons saw nothing in defeating such a weak ship.

[leobragasilveira]

well here's my opinion,
3. you'll have the person like myself that looks at this as a Star Trek MMO, and love Star Trek to death and would do anything to see this game played right(not like WoW carebears) and and if someone popped their little peice of crap Fedrat ship in where it's not suppose to be, i'd take it upon myself to do the Most Honorable thing and defend my Empire. if any Klingon fan/player would object to this type of action.... well quite honestly they're not Klingon then.....


You're right. I would hate to see this MMO universe different from its own storyline.
So, if the Devs want to give the possibility of one never go to PVP, then they should assure that there's nothing that's really meaningful inside PVP areas.

But at the same time, I believe that people who fight in PVP's and perform the required quests as well, should receive more rewards than non-PVP people.

If you play all the game, you have to receive more.

[icemann448]

DS9 - Return to grace. Kira and Dukat had to goad the Klingons in to a fight by attaching a planetary disruptor to their ship because the Klingons saw nothing in defeating such a weak ship.

you're absolutely correct sir, so in essence, imo we're both right, if a Klingon deems it "worthy" of a kill that it is so, if they dont want to bother with it, then they wont,
my whole point of this matter is, that this game is being made so we're at WAR, and last time i checked war usually ends with just a little bit of fighting...... just a little......... but we all know this is an MMO and there's tons of different types of ppl that will play this game, however in my case, if the game is designed that way, or in essence calls for it, especially from a Klingon aspect, you shoot on sight your enemy

[Archangelwoghd]

I would escort them, and expect the same courtesy from the feds. I will be playing a klingon scientist.

[WikiUltimate]

You know... If a Klingon asked me to escort him through the nuetral zone to get a badge.... I would be surprized and suspicious. But I'd do it with due diligence. I would not make it easy to catch me in a trap.


Bj

you'd never see the klingon. Thats what Cloak is for :p


I don't think the Klingons have a concept of "non combatant", save MAYBE children. When they go to war with a faction, its the entire population of the faction, not just its military. To a Klingon, a civilian is simply an adversary who has misplaced his or her weapon. They say as much in TOS, however things like Worf acting out holodeck programs pertaining to the slaughter of every man, woman and child in the city he was (virtually) attacking shows this to be a universal klingon view, even to this day. (the episode in question was "Rules of Engagement, Ds9)

To attack any civilian targets is one of the greatest dishonors a klingon can face. That being said, no fed player is a "civilian" so there is no dishonor.


If you come into the NZ looking for a "perk" and you anounce i will do 1 of 2 things: 1) if you are atleast 2 tiers below me, IE i'm a tier 3 your a tier 1, i'll give you a warning, 30 seconds to turn around and leave the NZ or i will attack. 2) if you are only a tier below me, your dead, end of story.

If you want a "perk" find a group and hope you don't attrack a large klingon fleet.

[Korrific]

no matter how big the opponent, if they are your enemy, VICTORY is always HONORABLE......
No one sings in your honor if you defeat a garbage scow.

But to face down two of your own who would find "honor" in shooting targ in a cage, and to defeat them against all odds - now THAT is what legends are made of!

[Hardac]

....I'm not calling you griefers at all (I respect your opinions and if I was a PvPer I would probably post the same remarks because hey its a game and its what I enjoy) but this is the seed from which all griefing grows....I was hoping there would be more in the trek community to prevent some of this but it looks just as bad as in any other MMO....And yes, Cryptic will be loosing subscriptions if they don't protect players from griefers. Devs... hope you are reading.

Oh, come on. Really?

Of course there are going to be a variety of responses to that type of request. As someone pointed out when some Alliance members' Horde side friend would ask everyone in Org not to shoot their half naked blue butt it would almost without a doubt draw a crowd of pvp'ers.

The game is going to have two types of people. PvP'ers and PvE'ers (or carebears if you prefer). Zones that are set aside for PvP are going to be "Enter At Your Own Risk". If one Klingon, or his entire fleet, honors your request, fine. That's their choice. If another doesn't, that's their choice. If you don't like it don't enter. Or if your still determined and actually social: bring friends.

The fact is this post leads me to believe you view all PvP'ers as griefers. Some of us just want a good fight.

And the rattling of the "Cancelled Subscriptions" saber is just pitiful.

Would I pick on a lone Miranda? Not with my Raptor. I'd go get my BOP just to make it fair.:p

[Kaybok]

If someone enters an open PvP zone they should either be prepared to PvP or they shouldn't go into the zone. When people complain about being attacked in a PvP zone on the forums I just ignore them. When I enter a PvP zone it's always with a team and we expect to be attacked.

However, if someone asks me not to attack them because they are just in the zone to get the badge or whatever I comply. I have no wish to attack someone who does not wish to fight.

Many times in the City of Heroes MMO I have helped people on the opposite side to find the zone badge or assisted them in getting the Shivan temp power available in one of the open PvP zones.

I still do this to this day. I really enjoy PvP, but I'm looking for competitors, not victims.

Thank you, PF. That's all I was looking for from the community at large. If some don't agree with this because it ruins your immersion I can understand that. We'll agree to disagree and call it.

[Kaybok]

Oh, come on. Really?

Of course there are going to be a variety of responses to that type of request. As someone pointed out when some Alliance members' Horde side friend would ask everyone in Org not to shoot their half naked blue butt it would almost without a doubt draw a crowd of pvp'ers.

The game is going to have two types of people. PvP'ers and PvE'ers (or carebears if you prefer). Zones that are set aside for PvP are going to be "Enter At Your Own Risk". If one Klingon, or his entire fleet, honors your request, fine. That's their choice. If another doesn't, that's their choice. If you don't like it don't enter. Or if your still determined and actually social: bring friends.

The fact is this post leads me to believe you view all PvP'ers as griefers. Some of us just want a good fight.

And the rattling of the "Cancelled Subscriptions" saber is just pitiful.

Would I pick on a lone Miranda? Not with my Raptor. I'd go get my BOP just to make it fair.:p

Hi, Hardac. Naw man, don't get me wrong please. My best friends on City of Villains were PvPers. They would go into Sirens Call and do very well in the zone but they would not grief players. I know the difference.

In war there are rules and lines you do not cross simply out of being humane. I was hoping the community would promote a PvP atmosphere where there's loose rules of conduct concerning folks who are non-threats. If the community does the reverse and promotes an atmosphere when you and your buds camp POI's to get easy kills then that border lines griefing in my opinion.

Someone needs to stand up for the little guy and say something against harassing players who are no challenge for you and want nothing to do with upping your kill count. You should also be thinking about the immature PvPers who definately will show up in STO who will be using exploits and all manner of dishonorable tactics to get their kicks. When that happens Cryptic will step in and something PvP related will be changed or nerfed. And yes, you will have players who quit the game especially if they feel they are forced into PvP for whatever reason (saw a post like that here the other day when klingon house vs house pvp was discussed). You can consider that sad sabre rattling but that is your opinion and you just read mine.

[Kaybok]

To folks on both sides of this debate, I want to thank you for your input and opinions. Although I feel very passionate on this issue I think it's best for me to refrain from posting about it until STO is in open beta or launched so we all see the PvP mechanics and how folks behave.

Like some of you have said, perhaps this is a non-issue if Cryptic doesn't have PvE stuff in PvP zones. I kinda doubt that because Crptic was involved in City of Heroes/Villains which I play. Shivans in CoX are pets that are very useful for PvE - obtained in PvP zone. I have been ganked while trying to get shivans. I have left the enemy alone when I saw they were just there to get shivans. I was attacked and then left alone when I said I was just there to get shivans. I have been with friends and PvP'd to get shivans. Also had to cancel a PvE task force because the enemy had the zone camped and they were griefing all the points that you have to visit to get shivans. I've done all that. I just hope that we as the STO community would be better than some of the practices I've witnessed. We shall see.

Thanks again for the debate. I'm going into lurk mode on this thread. If you consider that a victory then I say Qapla' to you LOL. Peace, my friends.

[indigowhale345]

Why are people so afraid to enter a pvp zone? If you die in an MMO you don't die in real life. This isn' t the matrix . . .

Because its nothing but frustrating, and sets the non-PVPer back from their goals, none of which include dying or PVP.

My biggest concern about this game is that real PVP in it may die a horrible death to be replaced by gank/zerg squads that do nothing but sit cloaked until a weak enough target comes along. That's obviously found in many games, but as a casual PVPer, there is nothing that turns me off faster from that entire aspect of the game.

And I know I'm not alone in that thought, the frustration of having zero chance is just not worth it. That's why people don't want to enter a PVP zone, because they know from past experience there is probably a bunch of gankers just waiting to jump them.

That's also why I proposed an honor tracking system long ago to penalize people who PVP with wildly unfair odds. Afterall, even Klingons are going to be dissatisfied if all they ever do is gangbang an obviously weak opponent while letting a more evenly matched opponent(s) pass by hiding in a cloak. I doubt that will ever happen though.

However, I'm waiting to see how it will all work, whether you can run if you want to or whether they do something like in CO, where every side is evenly matched player for player. Because CO is always numbers balanced (ignoring power balance issues anyways), I find PVP to be a heck of a lot of fun in that game.


Now on the topic, though, I'd like to see some attempt at diplomacy. Were I the Klingon and this Fed player comes in, they better be prepared to make a trade....pay a toll, like a cargo bay full of tacos. If they don't make that attempt, then they are fair game. Of course I'll probably ignore them if there's 4 other Klingons that go after them.

War is a lousy excuse to just attack people left and right. I know that sounds strange but seriously, if they have the white flag waving, see what they have to say and what they'll offer.

[starbuck1771]

The answer is D! We are at war and war is not a llike fest. You enter my sector of space you better be ready to die. True Klingons are Warriors not Diplomats or peace keepers.

[Vorgse]

I'll definitely be over to Khitomer in a jiff, under cloak of course, then I'll get in a tactical position and order you to complete a service for me in return for your life.

Dishonorable? Who cares, PIRATE! And yes I will be in the PvP zones all the time, that is where the Azure Nebula is after all.

[DaCrimp]

well here's my opinion,

1. you will have adolescent tweens that need to shoot anything that comes near them, and even if they lose they'll come back for me just to try to be "funny"


I'm sure there will be goons in the game, so I won't trust anyone =P

[mezlabor]

I'm sure there will be goons in the game, so I won't trust anyone =P

I wonder if Goonswarm is gonna show up in sto?

[fractaleye]

I wonder if Goonswarm is gonna show up in sto?

I'd be surprised if they didn't. As to whether will stay with it, I don't know really.

[Loekii]

While I am a PvP player, I am not a 'Red=Dead' type player. However, that also does not mean I would always just ignore another player either. It really is just a matter of how I feel at the time of the encounter.

I agree with what others have said here, in that if you enter into a PVP zone, then you are choosing to engage in PVP (there will not be any PVE perk located sole in a PVP zone).

You just have to roll the dice like the rest of us.

Oh, and the whole 'Klingon Honor' things is overrated imo, especially as the Klingons are not the only culture commanding their factions ship. I certain do not expect to see Orions fight with 'Honor'.

Also, imo, 'asking' to not be attacked in a PVP zone, so you can gain a 'Perk' designed to be challenging because it is located in a PVP zone, sounds like 'gaming the system'. I would be more likely to attack someone looking for an 'Easy' way to complete contact, than someone that is trying to get it the 'hard' way.

[Loekii]

I'd be surprised if they didn't. As to whether will stay with it, I don't know really.

Given that the mechanics are different, I would not expect them to be such a problem. Infact I could see them become hunted targets.

[DaCrimp]

Given that the mechanics are different, I would not expect them to be such a problem. Infact I could see them become hunted targets.

True, EvE wasn't that bad but the goons in Conan was horrible...

[Loekii]

True, EvE wasn't that bad but the goons in Conan was horrible...

It really all boils down to the weaknesses in the system.

If STO PvP has a relatively solid system, without easy to 'camp' areas and terran exploits, I think we will see alot less issue.

Infact, I am sort of interested to see how the various systems in STO come together to address such things. In WoW, if someone can down to 'sandbag' lower players, you had to basically call in another high level player to drive them out. However in STO, the lower players can simply rally against the sandbagger and dispatch him themselves -- sort of like a bully getting his backside handed to him by the little kids he was attempting to bully. :)

[Sirquacksalot]

I wouldn't expect to receive any special treatment or 'escort' from Klingon ships, unless as one person suggested, there's a 'escort an enemy through your territory badge'. I'd say that the smart option would be to get an escort of friendly federation ships, perhaps a few T4's or something. Plus, it doesn't matter if there is an escort from the Klingon's, since its almost guaranteed that the trigger happy people will show up anyway, and there won't be anything the escort can do against one of their own faction.

So yeah, basically go in in force and numbers, or sneak in alone and make it fast would be how I'd play it, and how I'd expect others to. Personally, if I saw a Saber class ship moving straight towards a known 'badge' area, making no other aggressive moves, I'd maybe shadow them from a distance and attack if provoked. But that's just me. For every one of me, I'm sure there's 10-20 "kill it if it moves" players.

[keebhor]

Given that the mechanics are different, I would not expect them to be such a problem. Infact I could see them become hunted targets.

Sorry, i know this is an old thread, however I can confirm GOONS will be making a presence in this game, they already are making a Klingon fleet that outnumbers pretty much every fleet i've seen so far on this forum.
GOONS aren't bad.

[cocoa-jin]

It depends on the area...is it a high strategic area, neutral and not currently engaged in open hostilities, how is the area perceived by my superiors?

Then it depends on the vessel/player...are they coming in a warship/combat oriented vessel, are they doing a known mission that has military significance(attacking a fellow NPC target, delivering troops or combat supplies, etc....is the player/Captain a known combatant(heavy PvP or heavy PvE combatant against my faction)?

So, I'll let a care-bear in a non-combat vessel enter a neutral, but currently non-combat contested area for a non-combat "badge"/POI. If im not busy, you can expect me to survey your movements under cloak...I'll quietly make sure you arent taking any offensive actions, or b ein deceptive in your intentions or your vessel type. I'll engage or coordinate an attack if I see anything hostile on your part.

I would inform any other Klingons that happen upon you of your intentions, but if their warrior spirit or standing orders call for attacking you, I wont attempt to convince them otherwise...nor will I warn you of their intentions to attack. Any mercy or allowances I provide are mine only.

If the area is deemed a strategic area, I'll attack the garbage you jettisoned if it floats into the system.

[BrokNor]

OH! this was waaaaaay to easy......

D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

In all seriousness, Klingons would do this....fedrats give no slack if we crossed.....we sure wont.....happy trails fedrat!.....QaPla!!!!!!!!

[erriku]

It would really depend on how I am feeling at the moment. If I am feeling particularly generous, I would allow and provide escort assuming the Feddie powers down shields and weapons. He would also have to be out numbered in power and/or ships so treachery would be discouraged. However, I would have to be in a really good mood to allow that.

More than likely, I would just remain cloaked, not respond to the announcement and decloak as said Feddie is putting along to his badge to make an unannounced surprise attack.

[Vekmar]

Fleet leaders, what do you think? Will you have any policy on this topic?

If I let you enter and get a Khitomer pin, will you protect me when I go for the Earth pin??? The answer is probably not.

It just goes to show you how spoiled the Federation has become with all of the gifts Cryptic has provided.. My suggestion is why not just give every Federation player the pin when their character is made??? Seems like they've gotten everything else they cried for.

PVP awards are for those who go through the TRIALS in order to obtain such awards. What you are asking is that we give you a ribbon for something you never did...In the REAL United States, if you go to a military surplus store and buy ribbons and a General rank then wear it in public........if you are exposed you go to JAIL.

So, as Klingons it is our RIGHT and DUTY to make each Federation character EARN such awards. Or else that award has NO MEANING for those who actually DID go through the TRIALS. WE HONOR THOSE WHO ACHIEVE.


Until we meet at the border.......Live and Die as a Klingon, with HONOR

[Mavolent]

@Mirror-Master
As it's a pvp zone I'd attack on sight, however I don't "camp" the enemy if I've killed someone once i'll leave them alone, unless they come back for vengeance, in which case it's on. However, if I were to actually agree to escort someone, then I'd honor that agreement and do what i could however small it may be to fulfill said agreement.

[BrokNor]

@Mirror-Master
As it's a pvp zone I'd attack on sight, however I don't "camp" the enemy if I've killed someone once i'll leave them alone, unless they come back for vengeance, in which case it's on. However, if I were to actually agree to escort someone, then I'd honor that agreement and do what i could however small it may be to fulfill said agreement.

For ones that will play true to the Klingon way of things, it wont matter how many times a single person comes across to get the pin...BOOM..your dead...do it again....BOOM your dead again. Does this mean Klingons will "camp" certain areas...yuppers, there will always be those bad apples that ruin the bunch, with that be us...absolutely not, it wouldnt be true to the Klingon ways.

So in short...ANY and ALL fed ships caught trying to enter or already IN our space for whatever reason will be killed onsight...end of story. QaPla!

[greglg]

I'm not a fan of PvE being thrust into PVP or RVR lakes. Too many ways to abuse it. Once Klingon players got wind of a PvE objective in Klingon territory, it would be camper central for all battlecruisers. Because it's such a poor design idea, I'd be one of the ones to nail any and all non-Klingon ships caught in such a predicament. Far better to turn it into an instance. It's like planting Mecca in downtown Tel Aviv.

[Kaybok]

If I let you enter and get a Khitomer pin, will you protect me when I go for the Earth pin??? The answer is probably not.

It just goes to show you how spoiled the Federation has become with all of the gifts Cryptic has provided.. My suggestion is why not just give every Federation player the pin when their character is made??? Seems like they've gotten everything else they cried for.

PVP awards are for those who go through the TRIALS in order to obtain such awards. What you are asking is that we give you a ribbon for something you never did...In the REAL United States, if you go to a military surplus store and buy ribbons and a General rank then wear it in public........if you are exposed you go to JAIL.

So, as Klingons it is our RIGHT and DUTY to make each Federation character EARN such awards. Or else that award has NO MEANING for those who actually DID go through the TRIALS. WE HONOR THOSE WHO ACHIEVE.


Until we meet at the border.......Live and Die as a Klingon, with HONOR

LOL You are reminding me of a CoV player talking about whiney spoiled hero's on the City Of games. I spent most of my time on villains so I know where you are coming from. However, these earned rewards... such as PvP badges... the same can be said if a PvPer purposely only camps weakling targets and non-combatants so they can "pwn". Like I have seen plenty of times in CoV - "Oh yeah I'm great I pwn n00bs!!". You did not EARN that PvP badge... you fought weak helpless targets! Get that PvP Ratio from challenging players on your own level then you can tell me how great you are!

In any case, we still don't know all the PvP details. My OP might be a non-issue if Cryptic allows non-combatants to go "off duty" to disable PvP. We shall see in the coming months. I look forward to them releasing more Klingon info (they got a lotta damn work to do here). If I'm in the position to help a non-combatant from either faction outside of roleplay & fleet actions I will. If I'm in the neutral zone defending the Empire with my friends then watch out because my disruptors show no mercy! But that ends at griefing/camping players - especially if they just want to be left alone for whatever PvE activity might be there in the PvP zone.

Live Free and Die Well. Qapla' !

[Kaybok]

For ones that will play true to the Klingon way of things, it wont matter how many times a single person comes across to get the pin...BOOM..your dead...do it again....BOOM your dead again. Does this mean Klingons will "camp" certain areas...yuppers, there will always be those bad apples that ruin the bunch, with that be us...absolutely not, it wouldnt be true to the Klingon ways.

Agreed in a roleplay sense. In DS9 Kira had to attach a cannon to a cargo ship so the Klingons would consider them a "worthy target" or the Klingons would not bother to attack them. That's the kind of thing my OP is getting at from a roleplay point of view. And it's those bad apples that will cause tons of petitions to customer service over griefing which could lead to PvP changes *if* people turn a blind eye to bad pvp behavior.

Anyway, I said I wasn't going to post about this until we see how folks behave.. was just surprised to see my thread risen from the grave. :)

Qapla' !

[Vekmar]

LOL You are reminding me of a CoV player talking about whiney spoiled hero's on the City Of games. I spent most of my time on villains so I know where you are coming from. However, these earned rewards... such as PvP badges... the same can be said if a PvPer purposely only camps weakling targets and non-combatants so they can "pwn". Like I have seen plenty of times in CoV - "Oh yeah I'm great I pwn n00bs!!". You did not EARN that PvP badge... you fought weak helpless targets! Get that PvP Ratio from challenging players on your own level then you can tell me how great you are!

In any case, we still don't know all the PvP details. My OP might be a non-issue if Cryptic allows non-combatants to go "off duty" to disable PvP. We shall see in the coming months. I look forward to them releasing more Klingon info (they got a lotta damn work to do here). If I'm in the position to help a non-combatant from either faction outside of roleplay & fleet actions I will. If I'm in the neutral zone defending the Empire with my friends then watch out because my disruptors show no mercy! But that ends at griefing/camping players - especially if they just want to be left alone for whatever PvE activity might be there in the PvP zone.

Live Free and Die Well. Qapla' !

Don't worry, I'm an equal opportunity Klingon....I will defend Klingon space. If I die....I DIE WITH HONOR

[BrokNor]

Agreed in a roleplay sense. In DS9 Kira had to attach a cannon to a cargo ship so the Klingons would consider them a "worthy target" or the Klingons would not bother to attack them. That's the kind of thing my OP is getting at from a roleplay point of view. And it's those bad apples that will cause tons of petitions to customer service over griefing which could lead to PvP changes *if* people turn a blind eye to bad pvp behavior.

Anyway, I said I wasn't going to post about this until we see how folks behave.. was just surprised to see my thread risen from the grave. :)

Qapla' !

I hear ya brother...lol...I just noticed the thread myself...digging through ungodly amounts of info...heh. Have fun in game and die well warrior! Qa'Pla!

[TriggerRta]

Remember the last episode of STTNG where Captain Picard and the Romulan both agree to take one ship in the neutral zone to study an anomaly? that would be awesome but it isn't going to happen. Human nature will overshadow the 'honor'. There will always be that 'one' player that has to do his own thing.

Like many others have stated, one shouldn't get a 'freebie' so they can just get a badge. If I see a klingon going torwards a badge area (I'm not going to be babysitting the badge), I will warn them once to leave. They are in violation of the Neutral Zone. No matter what their mission is. If they do not comply I will engage them for violating the neutral zone. PvP is open territory. If the klingon tells me they are only getting a badge, I will fire a warning shot across their bow. Leave the Neutral Zone now. Try again some other day or when I'm not looking. (I think that is fair, close to canon, and yet also in the spirit of PvP)

In regards to badges themselves,

If they are going to do badges anyway I suggest they do it on a random part of the neutral zone per player.

<Scan Asteroid 23455-2c in Sector 3453> That is the badge for you, but nobody else knows it so there would be less of a chance of badge ambushers.

Just my two bars of gold pressed latnum.

[TGcable]

o hell no, nothing for free! i had to earn those badges the hard way months at a time and you want to bring in your level 10 twink and get them for free.

i will make you earn it, the same way you made me


i will bathe in your blood and laugh at your pain. for i have suffered worse.


also i don't think the devoplers would like it very much "devaluing" their missions

[Hagon]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?If they enter a PvP area, then they're not being griefed if they're attacked. If by some remote chance this game does manage to have a faction vs faction element that actually means something, and killing a Fed ship is going to help advance my faction, then they're dead. I couldn't care less if they're a "non-combatant". You will have chosen to be there. I wouldn't have forced you to be there. Simple as that. Good luck.


Watch Our Vid -- Join Blood of Kahless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_z7srSQcEM)

[Hardac]

Sorry, i know this is an old thread, however I can confirm GOONS will be making a presence in this game, they already are making a Klingon fleet that outnumbers pretty much every fleet i've seen so far on this forum.
GOONS aren't bad.

Ah so the Neutral Zone will actually be KDF space. Good to know. :)

[TriggerRta]

Ah so the Neutral Zone will actually be KDF space. Good to know. :)

I believe you meant you will see a lot of wreckage of Klingon ships. If that is what you mean by KDF space :p :)

[Rivaris]

I believe you meant you will see a lot of wreckage of Klingon ships. If that is what you mean by KDF space :p :)

yet there will be more federation wreckage around of all the pve players that wanted a free badge.

anyways,

i just see it black and white you want a pvp badge you will have to fight for it.
so basicly spamming chat about that your unarmed and just want a badge will get you killed.

so goon is coming over here so basicly 200 klingon ships that take up shop in the neutralzone the battles will be interesting :)

[Hardac]

I believe you meant you will see a lot of wreckage of Klingon ships. If that is what you mean by KDF space :p :)

Apparently you've never been the victim of a goonswarm. You'll want to remember to scream "AH BEEEEEES!" over zone chat. ;):p

[keebhor]

yet there will be more federation wreckage around of all the pve players that wanted a free badge.

anyways,

i just see it black and white you want a pvp badge you will have to fight for it.
so basicly spamming chat about that your unarmed and just want a badge will get you killed.

so goon is coming over here so basicly 200 klingon ships that take up shop in the neutralzone the battles will be interesting :)

try 500+ :P

[Rivaris]

try 500+ :P

shhhh dont scare the feddies off.

[FFN]

Easy answer: Griefers will attack immediately.

[Nazter69]

I made a post at the first of this topic stating that I would eschort folks to the badges, now that I have seen post dealing with this topic. I have to go with a line from the Wrath of Khan Saavik: "Any suggestions, Admiral?" Kirk: "Prayer, Mr. Saavik, The Klingons don't take prisoners..." That says it all , I do have a sense of honor to me and will not attack weaker ships, unless their in a convoy to the badge, then I'll send them all to Khaless.:)

[Rivaris]

I made a post at the first of this topic stating that I would eschort folks to the badges, now that I have seen post dealing with this topic. I have to go with a line from the Wrath of Khan Saavik: "Any suggestions, Admiral?" Kirk: "Prayer, Mr. Saavik, The Klingons don't take prisoners..." That says it all , I do have a sense of honor to me and will not attack weaker ships, unless their in a convoy to the badge, then I'll send them all to Khaless.:)

well i would class weaker ships as civ-ships to me all starfleet ships are militaryships and should be destroyed on sight for the greater good of the empire.

i will probarly not fire on a civ ship but seeing there is a war giong on, every militaryship in the neutral zone is a target for me.

[shokurai]

i would not lie, i would tell him, you come in here, your a combatant, and as such subject to the rules of war. Not gonna lie , tell him he can come in and then blaze him, i don't see honor in that, but sorry any klingon that lets him in, is a coward, and should die as a traitor

[Glaurung]

Anything that can be used to cause grief, will. That's not labelling all PvPers as griefers, it's just a statement that there are always people that take delight in tormenting others, be it forum trolls, IRC channel hijackers, folks that write viruses, people that toilet paper lawns, people that pull dormitory fire alarms in the middle of the night, or what have you.

In MMOs, those people tend to be the ones that find ways to PvP people that don't want it, like the miner killers in UO, or the people who can't defend themselves like the res killers in any number of games that have had open PvP or the zone campers in any number of other games. They're going to be there, and the only way to stop them is to put severe limitations on the people who actually like to PvP against a prepared and willing opponent, which severely curtails their enjoyment of the game, and in a game with 'sides' can really interfere with immersion.

It's really a no win situation for Cryptic, since if they provide meants to protect the 'carebears' the PvP community feels slighted, and if they find ways to stop the 'griefers' the PvE folks feel wronged. All they can do is build their vision of the game, and the folks that can't live with it will end up not playing. :(

[minigodfather]

Red = Dead in my book. No warning and no mercy unless I can ransom the guy in which case its cripple and pay.

[havokreaper]

There Is No Greater Honor Then Victory

[qwil015]

Isn't the idea of attacking someone in the neutral zone a moot point.


(this from the Faq section of the website)
Q: Will there be PvP, PvE and RP rule set servers?
A: There will not be separate servers for PvP and PvE rulesets. Open PvP will be restricted to designated sectors of space (far-off reaches of unclaimed territory). Consensual PvP and competitive PvE will occur between the realm borders (the Neutral Zone), where players will be competing over territory and resources with the option to PvP.

Kind of hard to attack another player if they dont consent.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

The Klingons are going to be vastly outnumbered, so if any Fed needs a badge all they have to do is ask their friends for an escort. Unfortunately(for the Klingons and the game as a whole), there will always be more Feds than Klingons.

[cyan29xx]

90% of klingons have no honor whatsoever and pay lip service to the whole "honor thing" .

Maybe you will get lucky and find one of the few klingons who actually has honor when trying something like this.

[Xenoshaft]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?

To be honest I would recomend, as others have, to get an escort form friendly players. The fact is that even if there was an agreement that "dont shoot, i'm a nice guy" was not to be attacked, I would hate to have to keep track of who I can and cant shoot. I would hate to mess up such an agreeement as well. I dont know who im going to play at this point. But i can tell you that pvp is going to ROCK. if you dont normally like it, you might wait and see. From the few things i have read about on pvp, the team think that even non-pvp people will get some fun out of it. So even if you dont like to do it all the time, to grab a perk you might have fun with it.

[Loekii]

Sorry, i know this is an old thread, however I can confirm GOONS will be making a presence in this game, they already are making a Klingon fleet that outnumbers pretty much every fleet i've seen so far on this forum.
GOONS aren't bad.

However, if they offend numerous other fleets and players, it really wont matter that they are the 'largest' fleet. They will just be the 'largest fleet' with the most enemies, which doesn't make them the unstoppable.

Its about perception. One of the potential aspects I like about STO, is that everyone can contribute in PvP -- instead of the 'god mode' that we see in WoW. So rallying numbers will be interesting to say the least.

I think perception will also apply to the Op's question. For my self, perception will have some bearing on if I engage or not. If I see a Feddy in the PVP area, that has a rep for being a cool player, I probably wont engage. However, if I see a known troll or griefer, then I will engage.

[slingbladez]

If you want to be non-combat don't enter!!!

Agreed, when i see a federation ship I'm going to attack it.

[Nerresand]

well here's my opinion,
since this is a MMO to boot, you have a couple points of view on this
1. you will have adolescent tweens that need to shoot anything that comes near them, and even if they lose they'll come back for me just to try to be "funny"
2. you have the carebear variety that will be nice and let ppl through and be a good happy community... which the OP is calling honorable or having honor to let them come in and get their perk and leave....
3. you'll have the person like myself that looks at this as a Star Trek MMO, and love Star Trek to death and would do anything to see this game played right(not like WoW carebears) and and if someone popped their little peice of crap Fedrat ship in where it's not suppose to be, i'd take it upon myself to do the Most Honorable thing and defend my Empire. if any Klingon fan/player would object to this type of action.... well quite honestly they're not Klingon then.....

just my two cents.


I'd like to switch to RP mode and take this opportunity to point out a prevalent hypocrisy in the foundation of the Klingon Empire. In short, "honor" is just another word for "bloodlust". Attacking a ship on a peaceful mission is not honorable, it's cowardly and has little purpose except to sate some arbitrary thirst for killing. Are you really trying to say that the most honorable thing to do in the "defense of your Empire" is to destroy a ship that has no intent to attack your Empire? To have honor is to respect your opponents, your allies, and yourself, not to universally condemn anyone who flies in sight of your ship under the weak guise of "defending your Empire". The Klingon Empire should adjust the wording it throws around. The sooner it embraces the fact that it has mistaken bloodlust for honor, the better off the galaxy will be.

That said, if a Klingon was on a peaceful mission to retrieve something or get an accolade or whatever, and made no move to attack, I would not interfere. Because it's not honorable to fight someone on a mission of peace. It would be like killing a doctor or destroying a civilian freighter for no other reason than because "they should know better than to be where they're not supposed to be". I'm sure there will be some kind of "red alert" that will broadcast a ship's intentions. Of course, not everybody will play by the same rules, so it may be difficult.

[BrokNor]

I'd like to switch to RP mode and take this opportunity to point out a prevalent hypocrisy in the foundation of the Klingon Empire. In short, "honor" is just another word for "bloodlust". Attacking a ship on a peaceful mission is not honorable, it's cowardly and has little purpose except to sate some arbitrary thirst for killing. Are you really trying to say that the most honorable thing to do in the "defense of your Empire" is to destroy a ship that has no intent to attack your Empire? To have honor is to respect your opponents, your allies, and yourself, not to universally condemn anyone who flies in sight of your ship under the weak guise of "defending your Empire". The Klingon Empire should adjust the wording it throws around. The sooner it embraces the fact that it has mistaken bloodlust for honor, the better off the galaxy will be.

That said, if a Klingon was on a peaceful mission to retrieve something or get an accolade or whatever, and made no move to attack, I would not interfere. Because it's not honorable to fight someone on a mission of peace. It would be like killing a doctor or destroying a civilian freighter for no other reason than because "they should know better than to be where they're not supposed to be". I'm sure there will be some kind of "red alert" that will broadcast a ship's intentions. Of course, not everybody will play by the same rules, so it may be difficult.

Mission of peace, mission of war, or just picking your nose, a Klingon would not tolerate a fed ship entering that zone. Not to mention said fed ship is WILLINGLY entering a PVP MARKED AREA.....in those areas, anything goes....deal with it. Qa'Pla!

[Nerresand]

Mission of peace, mission of war, or just picking your nose, a Klingon would not tolerate a fed ship entering that zone. Not to mention said fed ship is WILLINGLY entering a PVP MARKED AREA.....in those areas, anything goes....deal with it. Qa'Pla!

My point exactly. What I'm saying is that the Klingon approach to war is pretty much the opposite of honor. I really get into the roleplaying aspect of all this, and as cool as Klingon ships are, the glaring double standard of the Empire really turns me off to playing as one. Stop pretending that Klingons are at all honorable and I won't have a problem with it, but I do have a problem with preaching one thing and living the opposite.

To the matter at hand, I would agree that an escort would be most appropriate.

[BrokNor]

My point exactly. What I'm saying is that the Klingon approach to war is pretty much the opposite of honor. I really get into the roleplaying aspect of all this, and as cool as Klingon ships are, the glaring double standard of the Empire really turns me off to playing as one. Stop pretending that Klingons are at all honorable and I won't have a problem with it, but I do have a problem with preaching one thing and living the opposite.

To the matter at hand, I would agree that an escort would be most appropriate.

Bring many escorts then, nothing comes free in the neutral zone. :cool:

[Nerresand]

Bring many escorts then, nothing comes free in the neutral zone. :cool:

Fair enough! As long as we're clear about what everyone's real motivations are. "Honor"...pff.

[Greenomen]

Hey I was just thinking...

Will there be a surrender option in STO?

[Nerresand]

Hey I was just thinking...

Will there be a surrender option in STO?

You mean like if you're losing a battle you can surrender so that your ship isn't destroyed?

I was actually wondering if there was any concrete info about what happens when your ship is "lost". Like, if it just appears at a space dock and you assume it was towed there after the battle or something. I seem to remember it being mentioned once in an IRC chat or something, but I don't remember specifics or which chat it was.

[Greenomen]

You mean like if you're losing a battle you can surrender so that your ship isn't destroyed?

I was actually wondering if there was any concrete info about what happens when your ship is "lost". Like, if it just appears at a space dock and you assume it was towed there after the battle or something. I seem to remember it being mentioned once in an IRC chat or something, but I don't remember specifics or which chat it was.

Yes something like that. The surrender ship gets transported somewhere, the victory gets a tally bump, number of surreder ships and bragging right? IDK.

[RowdyDurango]

You know, ive ran into this in other games. And unfortunately its left a bitter taste..... The reason being.....

A couple times I have let weaker younger players go, And even offered some advice/help at times......

Just to turn around and have one of the other factions much stronger players gank me a few hours later.

Its hard to extent a courtesy when you know it most likley wont be returned. But still if im in a good mood I will at least try to explain why I usually wont help out in that situation.

However, 99% of the time I wont gank a much weaker player.

[wrussandrews]

In past games with open pvp, I have honore such requests if I believed they were sincere.

Ever notice in such games the number "non-combatants" there were when they were outnumbered, wounded, or generally at a disadvantage?

With modern mmos, this is not the case. Stay out of the pvp zones, or do not have your pvp "flag" enabled. Then such misunderstandings can be avoided.

This can be a problem in guild (fleet, kinship, etc) wars but in that case you may just have to leave that organization for the duration of the conflict.

[Varrangian]

I have to be honest, I've been rethinking this question in light of the recent information... given that PvP appears to be the focus for Klingon content, I am less likely to honor such a request. If you suddenly represent xp points, given my limited play time I'm more likely to ambush you and get the xp. Call me callous or whatever you want, but if it is going to be more cutthroat, I'm going to act that way.

[Nerresand]

I have to be honest, I've been rethinking this question in light of the recent information... given that PvP appears to be the focus for Klingon content, I am less likely to honor such a request. If you suddenly represent xp points, given my limited play time I'm more likely to ambush you and get the xp. Call me callous or whatever you want, but if it is going to be more cutthroat, I'm going to act that way.

Yes, absolutely. I was just nitpicking about the terminology Klingons throw around :) Upon entering a PvP zone, one should always be prepared to accept the very real possibility that enemy players will kill on sight. Personally I like to give players the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong, and then ruthlessly exact my revenge.

[Sunfury]

Well there are a couple of different sides to this...If you look at the motivations of the Klingons and how they dealt with ANY infringement of their territory, it was most definitely a shoot first and ask questions later mentality. With any kind of PvP atmosphere where you can go in and out of zone, the mindset of the typical gamer is to jump on someone before they have a chance to hit you first assuming the odds are somewhat even.

For me however if I was playing on the Klingon side, it would depend on mood I guess or rather what I was doing or where I was heading myself and if I can be bothered to out of my way to attack said person that crossed into the neutral zone. If I was playing on the Federation side I suppose I would go with the same mentality overall, but try to lean in the direction of perhaps lending assistance if I could.

Good question btw!

[Khern]

I would likely hail any Federation ship before firing on it. I know, I am Klingon. We are at this time considered to be at war with the Federation. Yet, some Klingons will also remember the time of peace with the Federation. It is not impossible for a Klingon faction or house to even be against the current state of affairs.

Upon detecting any Federation ship in a pvp zone or Klingon system I would stay uncloaked and hail them. I would be cordial. No, not friendly, but not hostile either. Consider it a neutral response. I would probably say something such as;

"This is Captain Khern of the IKV Maj'Duj. You have entered Klingon space. Speak your intentions!"

-or-

"Federation vessel, you have entered sensor range. Identify yourself."

If the Federation vessel proves to be hostile, in effect, want to fight, I will happily oblige him. He will have his fight. If the Federation vessel takes no offensive action, I will leave said Federation vessel alone. I might even go so far as render assistance if the Federation vessel calls for it. While I would -never- ask a Federation for help, I would only be to happy to provide it.

[Kreedo]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?



It may just come down to how I feel that day. If I had *****y people at work or the kids driving me nuts or just stupid people in my way all day. I am going to take it out on you...

If the sniveling whiners are wanting to get the pin but dont want the risk ...TO BAD . Earn it and if that means you die over and over to get it , good. Then you earned it. As for making deals thats a great Idea but no promises. There should be room for merc hire in this aspect.

PvP zone is PVP zone suck it up Princess . Listening to the whiners making demands that the games got to be on easy mode for the few spinless wimps that should be hanging onto momma sucking their thumbs... Death to the spinless curs!!!!!!

Then again I am not surprised at all coming from a Federation point of view, not after seeing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

[Nerresand]

I would likely hail any Federation ship before firing on it. I know, I am Klingon. We are at this time considered to be at war with the Federation. Yet, some Klingons will also remember the time of peace with the Federation. It is not impossible for a Klingon faction or house to even be against the current state of affairs.

Upon detecting any Federation ship in a pvp zone or Klingon system I would stay uncloaked and hail them. I would be cordial. No, not friendly, but not hostile either. Consider it a neutral response. I would probably say something such as;

"This is Captain Khern of the IKV Maj'Duj. You have entered Klingon space. Speak your intentions!"

-or-

"Federation vessel, you have entered sensor range. Identify yourself."

If the Federation vessel proves to be hostile, in effect, want to fight, I will happily oblige him. He will have his fight. If the Federation vessel takes no offensive action, I will leave said Federation vessel alone. I might even go so far as render assistance if the Federation vessel calls for it. While I would -never- ask a Federation for help, I would only be to happy to provide it.

This actually makes me wonder about cross-faction communication. Personally, I think having two opposing factions be able to communicate with each other would introduce a whole new dimension of game dynamics and make things way more interesting, but I don't recall hearing anything from Cryptic about whether we'll be able to have "universal translators". It would only make sense in Star Trek, but at the same time I haven't seen any other MMO do this.

[Nerresand]

It may just come down to how I feel that day. If I had *****y people at work or the kids driving me nuts or just stupid people in my way all day. I am going to take it out on you...

If the sniveling whiners are wanting to get the pin but dont want the risk ...TO BAD . Earn it and if that means you die over and over to get it , good. Then you earned it. As for making deals thats a great Idea but no promises. There should be room for merc hire in this aspect.

PvP zone is PVP zone suck it up Princess . Listening to the whiners making demands that the games got to be on easy mode for the few spinless wimps that should be hanging onto momma sucking their thumbs... Death to the spinless curs!!!!!!

Then again I am not surprised at all coming from a Federation point of view, not after seeing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOSrOTphD9M

Have a cookie, champ, it'll make you feel better.

[Cormoran]

ha! i'm guessing this sort of no pvp in a pvp zone type behaviour would come from one of those people who setup some memorial service in pvp zones then cry when the other faction steamrolls over them.

in my view, if you don't want to pvp in a pvp zone you'd better hope you've got some freinds who are willing to pvp to protect you.

that, or before you go do it, strip down nekkid and get drunk. i did that in lotro, spent half an hour doing drunken nekkid laps and not a single creep touched me!!!

[TGcable]

This actually makes me wonder about cross-faction communication. Personally, I think having two opposing factions be able to communicate with each other would introduce a whole new dimension of game dynamics and make things way more interesting, but I don't recall hearing anything from Cryptic about whether we'll be able to have "universal translators". It would only make sense in Star Trek, but at the same time I haven't seen any other MMO do this.

i don't know i would find it very ignoring everytime i kill someone, i'll have to hear them get them QQing over it.

[dr_truth]

The way i see it, if you go into a PVP zone, expect to be attacked, expect that every person there is gunning for you. On the flip side if you ask not to be attacked, and the other player gives you the courtesy to not attack you, then that is really nice of that person and i give them kudos. Still they are giving a courtesy and it should not be held against him if he blast you out of the sky anyways, because that is the expected thing to do.

I personally would not ask to be spared, because i understand and accept that if i am in a PvP zone, i am setting myself up for attack. On the flip side, if someone asks me politely not to attack because they need to get to point A i will likely let them go (especially if they bribe me). Usually though i will follow said player to make sure they are going to point A and not trying to get into flanking positions.

So in short, if you are in a PvP zone, Don't expect to not be attacked, but you can always ask and hope for the best.

Also on a note with Klingons; While they are a warrior race, they are not incapable of mercy. Sometimes they understand that the feds aren't the type to wanna die in battle, and while they will have many ways to make fun of them for it... they may just let them slide if they are not really a threat (a tier single 1 science vessel oh no! now they can detect who is about to kick their butts earlier than most). Like i said not the norm and should not be expected, but stranger things have happened.

[Raibart]

*Laughs* The Neutral Zone is Enter at your own risk. I'm not a PVPer myself perfering exploration BUT I know andI except the fact that if I enter the Neutral Zone the fight is on.

[Wireman]

Why should someone that doesn't want to PvP earn a PvP reward? If you want it, fight for it. If not, go scan a gas giant and keep on your merry way.

My Bird of Prey will be waiting for you to drop out of warp, announce your carebear intentions and then turn your ship into a burning wreck. Oh, me and my 15 buddies. Since us nasty Klingons never travel alone.

[SiskoBell]

By some of your answers I get the feeling that you would have allowed D'Ghor to kill Quark in DS9 "The House of Quark". Where's the honor in that??

I think it's sad that a Miranda that is no threat and is in no way interested in PvP is blown up simply because it's there or because you can. I'm not talking about Klingons at war or roleplaying the defense of your Empire. I'm talking about kindness between trekkers. I'm not calling you griefers at all (I respect your opinions and if I was a PvPer I would probably post the same remarks because hey its a game and its what I enjoy) but this is the seed from which all griefing grows. I was hoping there would be more in the trek community to prevent some of this but it looks just as bad as in any other MMO.

Thanks for your comments and opinions.. it was very informative.

And yes, Cryptic will be loosing subscriptions if they don't protect players from griefers. Devs... hope you are reading.

I've yet to read the remaining replies past this one, but I thought I'd respond to the OP here.

As a Fed Capt. and (future) Fleet Commander, I have to say the issue you raise is something I've been thinking about a lot. That is, how will players comport themselves in the PvP game. Will there be honor, or will griefing be just as common as in other MMOs?

Of course, I think it's wrong to call an attack on an opponent in PvP+ space griefing. According to the STO story, the Federation and Klingon Empire are at war. Thus any Starfleet ship, no matter how weak, looking to enter the Neutral Zone should expect to be attacked. Unless the Fed ship in question has some sort of alliance with a Klingon player or other quid pro quo, it just makes sense. It's not reasonable to ask the Klingons to ignore their factional interests and faction character to accommodate Federation players. If the players in question are RPing diplomatic talks, or are making a black market trade (Klingon provides safe passage, Fed supplies Klingon with a special technology, etc.) then I'd hope both sides would live up to their end of the bargain. Otherwise, I think the Klingons should play as they will. Honor in this case would mean at least giving the Fed ship a chance. Three Vor'cha's beating up on a Nova class is ganking and dishonorable. But a Bop vs a Miranda...well that's fair an the Fed can't ask for more than that.

As for my Fleet and me, we'll will take such matters on a case by case basis. The Frontier Fleet won't destroy weaker ships just for the fun of it. Any Klingons we offer safe passage to will receive it to the best of our abilities (which admittedly won't be much since Feds don't have the same intra faction PvP options as the Klingons). I think we'll see Starfleet ships, my Fleet included, offering Klingons safe passage to NZ perks. From my point of view, it's in line with what the Federation stands for...they'd see it as making diplomatic overtures to the Klingons. But there will be times when we will seek to defend Federation interests, and seek to prevent any Klingons from entering the NZ (first we'll warn, then we'll disable, then destroy only if absolutely necessary).

On the flip side, I doubt we'll see many Klingons abide by such niceties. And given the state of the game and the nature of Klingons, we shouldn't expect them to. But like others have already said, any Starfleet ships looking for escorts into PvP space should contact a Frontier Command Fleet officer, we will deliver you safely to your destination.

[Replica]

What a wonderful way to make a perk completely meaningless. Maybe the US Army should also give out the Silver Star to people who "really really want one". psssh. If PvP zones are navigable by people "opting out" of PvP then STO will become a fully PvE game in short order. I respect the idea of "consensual PvP" but entering a PvP zone is consent. So to coyly withdraw that consent while still wanting to wander the PvP zone, well then you are just a c*cktease in STO clothing.

Regarding the post just above mine, Capt. Dead-Jim won't be honoring Siskobell's offer of safe passage. While there is war there will be Klingon lifeblood spilt

[Takleberry1]

I would say..."War target in area! Attack!!"

[Draconianknight]

I am old school and if indeed the Klingon Empire and the Federation are at war. Then any Federation ship that enters the nuetral zone should be expect to find a world of hurt. It is not unhonorable to attack an enemy that has violated your territory. To grant passage to an enemy to enter your territory is to invite them to scout and aquire tatical information. This is an unsound military practice and during a time of war is considered a traitorious act. So not only I would blow the Federation ship to pieces. I declare any Klingon ship preforming such an act fair game and alert every fleet member of BoK to come and wipe out not just his ship but his entire House.:cool:

[yodummy]

I am old school and if indeed the Klingon Empire and the Federation are at war. Then any Federation ship that enters the nuetral zone should be expect to find a world of hurt. It is not unhonorable to attack an enemy that has violated your territory. To grant passage to an enemy to enter your territory is to invite them to scout and aquire tatical information. This is an unsound military practice and during a time of war is considered a traitorious act. So not only I would blow the Federation ship to pieces. I declare any Klingon ship preforming such an act fair game and alert every fleet member of BoK to come and wipe out not just his ship but his entire House.:cool: yup.......as long as were at war, there will be no free pass for anyone, so if ya go into BoK territory and your not klingon (friendly house), no quarter.

[Desterion]

Normally, i'd let lowbies and solos pass to do their missions and stuff as long as they're not bothering anyone. But the Klingon says they all deserve to die in battle.

[Draconianknight]

I guess this issue has been answered since it fell of the front page:cool:

[bighair83]

Dunno if this has been mentioned previously, but if we go by canon, a trip into the Neutral Zone (Klingon or Romulan) usually results in having a phaser array aimed at your warp core. If the NZ is the primary open PVP area, I see no reason why this wouldn't continue in STO, regardless of the reasoning.

That said, the only way I'm going galavanting through PVP space in a Miranda-class is as a decoy, with a half dozen Second Fleeters waiting to smash the silly Klingons who take the bait :p

[Tain]

Really, at the end of the day there is only one response, two words, that is appropriate should such a situation arise. "Battle stations".

[Draconianknight]

Dunno if this has been mentioned previously, but if we go by canon, a trip into the Neutral Zone (Klingon or Romulan) usually results in having a phaser array aimed at your warp core. If the NZ is the primary open PVP area, I see no reason why this wouldn't continue in STO, regardless of the reasoning.

That said, the only way I'm going galavanting through PVP space in a Miranda-class is as a decoy, with a half dozen Second Fleeters waiting to smash the silly Klingons who take the bait :p

HAHAHAHAHA! Carefull for what you wish for, you just might get more than you handle.:cool:

[shadows802]

All right, lets face it. Devs usually put a badge or point of interest in a PvP area. Non-PvP'ers will want to get that badge and not be harassed or bothered with PvP. Here's my question: Are there any Klingon Fleets out there that would honor the requests of non-combatants to enter the neutral zone and obtain whatever badge or perk that may be there?

For example, if a player comes in and broadcasts to the zone "If you see me near the Klingon border I'm only here to get the Khitomer perk. Please don't attack me."

Do you think you and/or your Fleet would:

A) Inform your fleet members and any fleets in your coalition to not attack said player (enforced policy?).
B) Broadcast to all Klingons in the area not to attack said player (won't hold fleet members accountable).
C) Tell the player you will send two Birds of Prey to escort them. If they make any PvP moves towards Klingon vessels they will be destroyed immediately.
D) Send tells to your buds: "Haha nub fedrat near border. Cloak and pwn for Easy XP!"

This may sound silly to some of you but I'm trying to poll the PvP community on this. And if you're about to post "if you enter pvp area you are fair game" - well duh we all know that. This question is to see if there is any honor in the STO community regarding those who dislike or choose not to PvP. Any willingness out there to protect them so they are not griefed?

Federation Fleets, chime in on this also because I'm sure you have PvPers in your ranks who may not want to honor non-combatant Klingons (if such an animal exists).

Or perhaps all of this isn't enough and we should petition Cryptic for a "non-combat" flag that would disable PvP for 24-hours. What do you think?

Depends the mood I'm in. If Im in a good mood sure, if Im in a bad mood heck no!

[bighair83]

HAHAHAHAHA! Carefull for what you wish for, you just might get more than you handle.:cool:

It's a shame Starfleet regs prohibit me from painting kills under my registry number; my ready room doesn't have a wall long enough :p

"Personal log, supplemental. Quick note to self: inform Chief Tactical Officer that the IKS Talon will inevitably decloack and ambush us, and that I asked for it. End log."

[Ashen]

I hate PvP. I hate it with a passion that could, possibly if you're looking for a low level comparison, be compared to a supernova. Generally because of bad experiences with idiots, but I'll leave that alone.

However.

If I go into an openly PvP area, EVEN to collect an accolade/badge/award/whatever and nothing else I wouldn't expect people from the other side not to try and kill me. You enter a PvP area, you get shot. Even I can accept that. Honour has nothing to do with it.

After all, this is war.

[Aethilgar]

And yes, Cryptic will be loosing subscriptions if they don't protect players from griefers. Devs... hope you are reading.

Griefers. You know.. normally I'd be right there with ya if there was true open pvp.. but if one chooses to enter a PvP zone one should not be shocked to encounter PvP. When it's a player's choice to PvP there can be no greifing.

[vegetta]

I might or might not let you pass .. depending on whim really. Announcing you just want a badge and dont want to fight/be bothered is a sure invitation to get attacked from someone SO i would just try to sneak in and get it.

I really dont think you should be able to earn pvp badges unless you pvp but that is another issue.

[Kayos]

If I was a Klingon and a non-combatant fed entered the neutral zone he would be fair game and dead in seconds. :) Same the other way if I was a fed.

[Nerresand]

I guess, in the end, it comes to this...Attacking anybody in a PvP zone is perfectly justified but sometimes a little lame. You can complain about it, and in fact you might be right that the guy in the Negh'var was kind of a d-bag for chasing down a lil' Miranda, or maybe you're just whining, but the fact is PvP in a PvP zone is always "okay". I personally intend to employ a code of ethics when dealing with situations like these, but I guess that's the beauty of an RPG - you can play as you want to. Until the more powerful guy comes along and decides your fate.

[Nerresand]

i don't know i would find it very ignoring everytime i kill someone, i'll have to hear them get them QQing over it.

Good point, but even if communication is restricted to the same faction there are always people one inevitably puts on the ignore list. The same thing could work both ways; the people who whine incessantly when they're killed can be ignored, and the good sports can be good sports. Hmm, that makes me wonder what it would be like if you could "friend" someone of the opposing faction. They'd still be fair game, but it would allow you to more fully customize your RP experience and keep track of those people in the other faction you actually like, maybe.

[Draconianknight]

It's a shame Starfleet regs prohibit me from painting kills under my registry number; my ready room doesn't have a wall long enough :p

"Personal log, supplemental. Quick note to self: inform Chief Tactical Officer that the IKS Talon will inevitably decloack and ambush us, and that I asked for it. End log."

Fortunately we consider them badges of honor and HOPEFULLY Cryptics custimization program allows for that little detail. I will happily post my Fedrat kills on my hull!:cool:

[Aethilgar]

Good point, but even if communication is restricted to the same faction there are always people one inevitably puts on the ignore list. The same thing could work both ways; the people who whine incessantly when they're killed can be ignored, and the good sports can be good sports. Hmm, that makes me wonder what it would be like if you could "friend" someone of the opposing faction. They'd still be fair game, but it would allow you to more fully customize your RP experience and keep track of those people in the other faction you actually like, maybe.

There are a couple RP angles, I suppose. Is the Federation captain offering to trade technology, items, or information for passage? Then I would be most pleased to 'meet them at the rendezvous to make the exchange'. Of course, one false move and they are fair game.

[abergy32]

IMO there is no honor in attacking a non-combatant. Tell him to call his fleet mates and then prepare for glorious battle.