STO Announced Rank Insignia

[Captain_Starblazer]

There will be five ranks through which to progress at launch:

* Lieutenant
* Lieutenant Commander
* Commander
* Captain
* Admiral


I assume the insignia for these will be from "The Next Generation" (TNG) era. (No sleeve rank, just the metal circlets on the collar)? At least Federation Ranks (No idea of any others, I don't think Klingons have those ranks)

[Eclipse1987]

I assume the insignia for these will be from "The Next Generation" (TNG) era. (No sleeve rank, just the metal circlets on the collar)? At least Federation Ranks (No idea of any others, I don't think Klingons have those ranks)

rekhan said in another thread they haven't designed the insignia/pip's yet but they're working on it

[fyreblayd33]

I assume the insignia for these will be from "The Next Generation" (TNG) era. (No sleeve rank, just the metal circlets on the collar)? At least Federation Ranks (No idea of any others, I don't think Klingons have those ranks)

Wow did they miss a lot of ranks. They should be from highest to lowest (not including the various Admiral titles):

Admiral
Commodore
Fleet Captain
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Lieutenant JG
Ensign
Chief
Crewman

I wonder if they will actually include Klingon Rank structure?

General - yo'aj
Brigadier- wa'Dich'aj
Colonel - cha'Dich
Major- totih
Captain- HoD
Commander- ra'wl'
Lieutenant- ra'wl'Sogh
Warrior 3rd Class- Sogh
Warrior 2nd Class- Sogh lagh
Warrior 1st Class- lagh

[Suricata]

Wow did they miss a lot of ranks. They should be from highest to lowest (not including the various Admiral titles):

Admiral
Commodore
Fleet Captain
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Lieutenant JG
Ensign
Chief
Crewman


Actually, tha ranks make sence, you are the captain of a starship, so It's doubtful you'll see a Crewman, Chief, Ensign or Lieutenant JG in command of a starship, so actually those ranks would be defunct for a player rank (althoguh I'll bet your crew will have some of those ranks). They've also stated they may add more ransk as well, which I'd assume woud be different Tiers of Admiral (rear and vice for example), so actually the ransk they have atm seen fine to me.

[Typheron]

Its also been stated they did not want you to be just a crewman, etc.. spending his or her time in the bowls of the ship turning wrenches and pushing buttons. So no point in having those ranks really.

Likewise i would guess that the super high can-order-entire-fleet-to-spell-there-name-out-in-warp-trails ranks are similary pointless, since its outwith the scope of the game.

I wonder who they will do guild/clan/fleet ranks?

[matt4tay]

Its also been stated they did not want you to be just a crewman, etc.. spending his or her time in the bowls of the ship turning wrenches and pushing buttons. So no point in having those ranks really.

Likewise i would guess that the super high can-order-entire-fleet-to-spell-there-name-out-in-warp-trails ranks are similary pointless, since its outwith the scope of the game.

I wonder who they will do guild/clan/fleet ranks?

They will more than likely if the fleet has a website, their ranks would be on there.

[Captain_Starblazer]

Its also been stated here that you will have a 'bridge crew' that you will put together and train up, so maybe they (the 'bridge crew' NPCs) will start at the lower ranks of 'Chief and Ensign'

[fyreblayd33]

I do understand that they do not want us to be a no body when we start but hey everyone has to start someplace right. I just think that only having 5 ranks is kind of boring. I mean how many admiral ranks can they really add later? If they had opened up the earlier ranks they would have had more time. Also if you think about it Lt. Cmdr. Warf was given command of the defiant. Lt Cmdr Data was given command of his own star ship in one episode. So why not open up the lower ranks. Not like there is nothing saying that it could not be done. Not like we are all going to be in ships of the line to start off in anyway so why not start lower to show that you are growing into your command potential?

[shupacko]

It is conceivable there is a higher amount of prestige needed to go from Captain to Admiral then say Lt to Lt. Commander. There is also the idea that Starfleet (or the Klingons) don't want just any person to be able to command a starship thus there being no crewman or ensign as the "captain".

[Captain_Starblazer]

Well, they stated everyone would start (federation wise) in a "Miranda" class ship, which is pretty small and most likely could be commanded by a full Lieutenant. In 'First Contact' I believe Worf was only a Lt.Commander and had command of a 'Defiant' class.

In the way of an Admiral. haven't really seen any commanding a Starship. Guess they could be doign a Gslaxy class or whatever comes after that,

[shupacko]

There were a few admirals who commanded starships. I don't recall the Admiral's name but at the Battle of Wolf 359 an admiral is there commanding a ship.

[Peteromir]

Its also been stated here that you will have a 'bridge crew' that you will put together and train up, so maybe they (the 'bridge crew' NPCs) will start at the lower ranks of 'Chief and Ensign'

It should also be pointed out that they are Bridge Officers. when the term Officer is used, it genrally implies a commissioned officer rather than an NCO or Warrant officer.

[bradley1701]

And while the ranks Fleet Captain and Commodore were used in TOS, they were dropped after that and we never heard anyone in TNG, DS9 or VOY have those ranks...the big guys giving the orders were always some level of Admiral.

[bradley1701]

There were a few admirals who commanded starships. I don't recall the Admiral's name but at the Battle of Wolf 359 an admiral is there commanding a ship.

As well, Admiral Riker had the Enterprise D...and there was an Admiral in First Contact who commanded a ship (which was destroyed).

It was also not clear if when Admiral Nechyev came to visit in TNG whether or not she commanded that Excelsior class starship or whether she was just a passenger on it.

[indigowhale345]

I do understand that they do not want us to be a no body when we start but hey everyone has to start someplace right. I just think that only having 5 ranks is kind of boring. I mean how many admiral ranks can they really add later? If they had opened up the earlier ranks they would have had more time. Also if you think about it Lt. Cmdr. Warf was given command of the defiant. Lt Cmdr Data was given command of his own star ship in one episode. So why not open up the lower ranks. Not like there is nothing saying that it could not be done. Not like we are all going to be in ships of the line to start off in anyway so why not start lower to show that you are growing into your command potential?

Why should they add more ranks at all? There's no conceivable reason to do that. Games that constantly push back the level cap don't make any sense.

The latest ask Cryptic has them stating they will add more skills in time. They don't need more ranks to expand the game or make more powerful characters. You will get to admiral and your skill progression is never-ending as you expand from taco crafting into taco weaponry and whatever else they come up with to expand the game. And this makes more sense than adding more ranks.

[Suricata]

I've been thinking about this and actually, I think they need to remove the Admiral rank and replace it with Commadore, that would leave Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral and possably an Admiral of the Fleet for expansions, as it is now, they are wasting 3 potential ranks by skipping striaght to Admiral from Captain and since they've stated they want to add more ransk eventually, it amkes sence they leave out the higher ones at first.

[Eclipse1987]

just ftr the in game ranks will be:

lieutenant->Lieutenant Commander->Commander->Captain->Admiral

and the reason we dont start at ensign or cadet, is because of the story.

last I heard you start as a lt. that assumes command (and a field promotion to acting captain) when your C.O. & X.O. are killed.

I think full lieutenants are the lowest rank one can get command of a vessel although it may be lt.commanders.

[Peteromir]

Isnt a Commodore in modern US navy terms just a 1 star admiral?

[MyOwnSling]

Isnt a Commodore in modern US navy terms just a 1 star admiral?

Not modern, no. It's called Rear Admiral (lower half). Clicky (http://www.militaryconnection.com/navy-ranks.asp)
However, I do believe it used to be used as the first-tier admiral.

[Pyrceval]

I see no reason to add any additonal ranks at all, unless its jsut dividing up the types of admirals.

[Davorn]

I have no idea how Fleet Capt works in STO. But I would imagine they would be in charge of a group of ships. Probably like a "Commodore" is now in the US Navy. A Senior Capt who carries the title Commodore.

So not really someone that would be in charge of one ship. Honestly, I was surprised when I saw the Admiral rank in the game.

Just my thoughts.

[Captain_Starblazer]

All that has been stated so far for the Closed Beta is FEDERATION STAR FLEET ranks, since there are supposed to be (from what I have seen) Sooner or later there will be playable races. Klingon being the main one, as well as Andorian (I think) and even Borg if I'm not mistaken. There will have to be Ranks for these races if they are to be playable characters.

I think a Klingon might just shove a batlith up your **BLEEP** if you called him by the human term 'captain' :eek:

[champforce]

last I heard you start as a lt. that assumes command (and a field promotion to acting captain) when your C.O. & X.O. are killed.

Please tell me its not that cliche beginning.

I'd much rather see an instanced starter zone at the Academy.
You could start as a cadet take the Kobayashi Maru
Have a nice graduation ceremony scene then get to work.
Catch a shuttle full of ensigns to Starbase 1 and find your division head.
Here you learn about skills, kits and working with others.(BO)
After reaching JrLt (quickly) a group of Klingons invade the station using a stolen Federation (Tier 1) ship.
Battle ensues and your wounded CO (ok a little cliche) promotes and orders you to take the stolen ship the attackers used to find her original captain and crew.
Once you launch from the station you leave the tutorial as a Lt in command of a ship with ground combat experience, ship combat experience, and training useing skills kits and BO's.
All of this can take from 20 min - 1 hr if you take your time.

[Captain_Starblazer]

The other thing to think about. I'm pretty sure they will have more than 1 character slot per account. So you can try out different builds and eventually different races. Locking someone into just one role would be pretty much a big black mark on STO. Most will probably want A PvE Build (maybe Human or Vulcan), A PvP Build (maybe Klingon or some other Warrior Race) and maybe a hybrid of the 2.

A static tutorial for this kind of thing gets a bit linear. Maybe a cancelable cinematic of the progress fore-story

Edit: WOOOT! I just became a 'Senior Member' :p :eek:

[Varrangian]

In regards to those who have a problem with starting at Lt. This is fairly old news. Even Jack said last year he did not think we would start at the rank of Ensign.

In addition remember that ranks in STO do not = levels. Please click the banner above and read the Ask Cryptic answers posted yesterday Sept. 17 as well as the set up for that post posted Sept. 16

I assume the insignia for these will be from "The Next Generation" (TNG) era. (No sleeve rank, just the metal circlets on the collar)? At least Federation Ranks (No idea of any others, I don't think Klingons have those ranks)

As to the OP's question, while Rekhan said yesterday that they are still working on the pips, you can see one of the ideas they've had for rank by watching the trailer posted last year. They are sort of on the shoulder and larger than the shows, but this makes a great deal of sense, to make them visible to other players.

[MajorD]

Wow did they miss a lot of ranks. They should be from highest to lowest (not including the various Admiral titles):

Admiral
Commodore
Fleet Captain
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Lieutenant JG
Ensign
Chief
Crewman

We'll probably see Ensigns maybe even a chief or crewman if we're really lucky, they almost don't exist in Star Trek, but we start as a Lieutenant. I'm surprised they left out fleet captain or commodore, and the bottom three flag ranks of rear admiral (lower half), rear admiral, and vice admiral. They hold obvious utility, not just in fleshing out the ranks but in fluff for game mechanics. If you form a ship alliance the leader of the group could realistically be a commodore, which is a title or position not a rank, like being called captain just because you're the commanding officer of a ship regardless of rank, but instead commander of a group of ships. They could even distinguish fleet captain and commodore by having command of more than one ship at once at the rank of commodore (since it's somewhat common in TNG, while fleet captain was seen only in TOS), it's an obvious and awesome power promotion. The difference is that those ships you command are permanent rather than the impromptu collection of fellow players.

[Time-Lord]

Ensigns can take command, Ensign Kim took command of Voyager on occasion. Whether that would apply i dont know, just my two cents to this convo.

[Pyrceval]

There are occasions where an Ensign would be in command (bridge officer, seniority such as Kim, the oldest Ensign in the history of the universe) however starfleet would never appoint an Ensign command of a ship.

[Sportzter]

Actually, tha ranks make sence, you are the captain of a starship, so It's doubtful you'll see a Crewman, Chief, Ensign or Lieutenant JG in command of a starship, so actually those ranks would be defunct for a player rank (althoguh I'll bet your crew will have some of those ranks). They've also stated they may add more ransk as well, which I'd assume woud be different Tiers of Admiral (rear and vice for example), so actually the ransk they have atm seen fine to me.

Well Ensign IS an officer Rank.

Geordi was a Leutenant JG when he took command of the Enterprise in the Arsenal of Freedom, so that is a viable Command Rank.

Also Warf and Geordi were JG's though the first season and part of the bridge crew.

Again, a viable rank.

Yeoman, Chief and crewman are considered Enlisted men and rarely appointed to take command of a vessel. Although, it has happened in the ST universe.

[Zoberraz]

I feel a bit of dismay at seeing the Admiral rank in that progression.

The Admiral rank has a lot of symbolism. I'm not sure I like seeing it in the tiered progression scheme - it means we might be liable to see, after six-months/a year that STO is out plenty of Admirals flying around in thier top-tier ships (how credible would you feel as an admiral if you were flying around in a Saber, mm?).

I believed I would have found it a lot more pallatable to see the Admiral rank be a priviledge given to guild leaders - basically founders of organized player-fleets in-game. If so, then the frequency of Admirals would significantly decrease. Furthermore, guild officers (assistants to guild leaders in administrating things) could be assigned to being 'Rear Admirals' and share in the luster of that title.

Admirals in Star Trek don't have such a glowing reputation - not to the point where I see myself wanting to be one on a roleplaying perspective. Kirk as an admiral was a bitter man whom pined for simpler times and he told Picard as much. Janeway on the other hand seemed content becoming a vice admiral... but she had probably had her quota of 'exciting space exploration' for a long time. Other admirals seemed to have deskjobs and were convenient plot devices to providing tasks... but the rank in itself seems more synonymous with administration and 'retirement', of assuming responsabilities that make the indulgences ship captains can go around doing something they can no longer afford concerning themselves with.

I am left wondering in Sovereign starships are only available for Admirals and not Captains - Picard was a Captain and sure had a Sovereign of his own. I end up asking myself if I could actually refuse a promotion to admiral and deny myself the top tier abilities - the symbolism of the rank is just that strong.

[Pyrceval]

Well Ensign IS an officer Rank.

Geordi was a Leutenant JG when he took command of the Enterprise in the Arsenal of Freedom, so that is a viable Command Rank.

Also Warf and Geordi were JG's though the first season and part of the bridge crew.

Again, a viable rank.


But your missing the point, yes there are instances where such a ranked person would take command (major crises etc) however, the fleet would not appoint them there own command at that rank.

[Sportzter]

I feel a bit of dismay at seeing the Admiral rank in that progression.

The Admiral rank has a lot of symbolism. I'm not sure I like seeing it in the tiered progression scheme - it means we might be liable to see, after six-months/a year that STO is out plenty of Admirals flying around in thier top-tier ships (how credible would you feel as an admiral if you were flying around in a Saber, mm?).

I believed I would have found it a lot more pallatable to see the Admiral rank be a priviledge given to guild leaders - basically founders of organized player-fleets in-game. If so, then the frequency of Admirals would significantly decrease. Furthermore, guild officers (assistants to guild leaders in administrating things) could be assigned to being 'Rear Admirals' and share in the luster of that title.

Admirals in Star Trek don't have such a glowing reputation - not to the point where I see myself wanting to be one on a roleplaying perspective. Kirk as an admiral was a bitter man whom pined for simpler times and he told Picard as much. Janeway on the other hand seemed content becoming a vice admiral... but she had probably had her quota of 'exciting space exploration' for a long time. Other admirals seemed to have deskjobs and were convenient plot devices to providing tasks... but the rank in itself seems more synonymous with administration and 'retirement', of assuming responsabilities that make the indulgences ship captains can go around doing something they can no longer afford concerning themselves with.

I am left wondering in Sovereign starships are only available for Admirals and not Captains - Picard was a Captain and sure had a Sovereign of his own. I end up asking myself if I could actually refuse a promotion to admiral and deny myself the top tier abilities - the symbolism of the rank is just that strong.

JP Hanson, the Fleet Admiral, had an Excelsior Class Ship at the Battle of Wolf 359...

Riker had the Enterprise D Refit as his Flagship in All Good Things...Admirals can choose their ships.

I would think being an Admiral is more like being a Jedi in Rank. Once you get there, there is no where else to go. I agree the Captain Title is the most Significant of the ranks and I would like that Rank by choice.

I would hope that Admirals are more used as End Game stuff or the "New Level" if/when there is an expansion. I would think that you would rarely take "missions" from a mission computer to explore as an admiral. I would think that if you are an Admiral with ship, then you are in Command and get to do what you want when you want.

Admiral rank just doesnt really fit it terms of the game and a playable option.

Make more levels that get you to Captain. Add the "Cadet" level if needed.

Cadet
Ensign
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Commodore* or Fleet Captain

[Sportzter]

But your missing the point, yes there are instances where such a ranked person would take command (major crises etc) however, the fleet would not appoint them there own command at that rank.

You are right...

But they dont offer ships to commanders either (unless in a crisis) Best of Both Worlds is the example that comes to mind, but again it is a crisis - unless they make them captains. For gameplay reasons I see what they are doing, but for ranking reasons, you need to add more ranks than 5. And being an admiral with ship along with 100,000 other admirals in the game seems silly when you look at the command structure.

[Pyrceval]

You are right...

But they dont offer ships to commanders either - unless they make them captains. For gameplay reasons I see what they are doing, but for ranking reasons, you need to add more ranks than 5. And being an admiral with ship along with 100,000 other admirals in the game seems silly when you look at the command structure.

Thats not entirely true, Sisko was just a Commander

[Varrangian]

I would hope that Admirals are more used as End Game stuff or the "New Level" if/when there is an expansion. I would think that you would rarely take "missions" from a mission computer to explore as an admiral. I would think that if you are an Admiral with ship, then you are in Command and get to do what you want when you want

Admirals in real navies still answer to someone, they do not just "do what they want when they want".

[Sportzter]

Thats not entirely true, Sisko was just a Commander

Yes, in charge of a space station. That is different as it is seen more as a Logistical Position than captaining a star ship. The runabouts dont count as Star Ships to be sure. And He became a Captain when he got the Defiant.

Also, this was SIsco's ship. It wasn't Dax's or Worfs. So when they would take the Defiant out, they would Command Sisco's ship.

[Sportzter]

Admirals in real navies still answer to someone, they do not just "do what they want when they want".

True - But in this case, Admirals command a sector of space. And are responsible for such. I doubt as an Admiral you would want to go to a mission computer to "Explore this area". As an admiral, you give that to a captain to do.

Also - Depending on their rank it depends on who they listen to. The joint chiefs for the US Govt is the command structure. Rear admiral, Vice Admiral and the Fleet admirals are all subranks of Admiral.

We are not talking about that here. It is just one rank - Admiral

[Varrangian]

You are right...

But they dont offer ships to commanders either (unless in a crisis) Best of Both Worlds is the example that comes to mind, but again it is a crisis - unless they make them captains. For gameplay reasons I see what they are doing, but for ranking reasons, you need to add more ranks than 5. And being an admiral with ship along with 100,000 other admirals in the game seems silly when you look at the command structure.

I will go back to real world examples for the specific reason that the vast majority of ships Trek makes us acquainted with are the "important ships", in many cases the Federation Flag ships.

In the real world there are a number of examples of Lt. JG's commanding small ships (Kennedy's PT boat, Kerry's Swift boat). So giving command of a small "patrol" style ship to a Lt. is by no means out of bound of reality.

Roddenberry used the real Navies as his examples for Starfleet, but he did not leave detailed instructions on every point, therefore it is perfectly acceptable for Cryptic to flesh these details out with real world ideas.

[Sportzter]

I will go back to real world examples for the specific reason that the vast majority of ships Trek makes us acquainted with are the "important ships", in many cases the Federation Flag ships.

In the real world there are a number of examples of Lt. JG's commanding small ships (Kennedy's PT boat, Kerry's Swift boat). So giving command of a small "patrol" style ship to a Lt. is by no means out of bound of reality.

Roddenberry used the real Navies as his examples for Starfleet, but he did not leave detailed instructions on every point, therefore it is perfectly acceptable for Cryptic to flesh these details out with real world ideas.

For the record - I am AOK with a cadet or a Lt JG with starship for game purposes.

Captain is a Title and Rank - anyone that is in charge of a vessel is the Captain. My beef was with the Admiral ranks and 100,000 Admirals running around with ships in the game. It doesn;t make sense from a ST point of view or from a navy point of view. Make Captain or Fleet Captain the highest Rank until the Expansion.

Also, no where in the Star Trek universe where a crisis was not in play did we have anyone less than a Captain in rank in charge of the star ship. There First Contact and Wolf 359 had commanders in charge of ships but that was a crisis. Runabouts and Small Attack craft are not commanded by captains in combat situations or have never been shown in any movies/episodes that I am aware.

[Norexan-Guy]

If they added "Rear" before Admiral I would see it logically, even without distinguishing either half of the rank. However, I would never see a captain being promoted to full-out admiralty in a single shot.

[Sportzter]

If anything - Make Admiral an honorary Rank for PVP wins or something. I think that would be cool.

I wouldn't speak for anyone else, but I would rather be a Captain than an Admiral.

[Suricata]

Yes, in charge of a space station. That is different as it is seen more as a Logistical Position than captaining a star ship. The runabouts dont count as Star Ships to be sure. And He became a Captain when he got the Defiant.

Also, this was SIsco's ship. It wasn't Dax's or Worfs. So when they would take the Defiant out, they would Command Sisco's ship.

Actualy, running a station or base is generally considered bigger than running in a ship, in the British Navy you generally have Commadores running the bases, with Captains running Squadrans and Commanders commading destroyers and frigates. You'll usually see Leutenant commanders commanding minesweepers and the like. The lower ranks usually don't get thier own commands as they simply don't have the experiance to run a ship, afterall, commanding a ship doesn't mean sitting on the bridge, infact more often than not the ships captain is in his quarters doing lots and lots of paper work.

I think some people in this thread are getting mixed up between actually commanding a ship and been the Officer on Watch on the bridge, which are 2 totally different things. For example, whilst I was in the Navy as an Artifcer, we had to do a salute to a passing ship, this meant the Captain and Officer of the watch had to go onto the ships wing, along with the Bosans Mate, Now I spent all my spare time on the bridge, learning how to drive the ship and the like, so I had the bridge for about 5 minutes. This did not mean I was commanding the ship though, it just meant I was the person on the Bridge, just like the times when Ensigns in Star Trek have been given the bridge.

I'd also like to point out that an Ensign, although an enlisted rank (equivalent to a Midshipmen in the British Royal Navy) is usually a rank given to officers that are still in training, so the chances of an Ensign been given command of a ship is extremely slim, unless your name is James T Kirk ofcourse! :-P

Eitherway, I believe the initial ranks should be:-

Leutenant
Leutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Commadore / Fleet Captain

And then with expansions they could add

Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral
Admiral of the Fleet

My main concern with them having Admiral in from the start is that after a year or so, when they want to add an expansion they'll only have 1 rank (Admiral of the Fleet) left that they can add, which is really shooting themselves in the foot. Also I think it would be a great selling point for an expansion to say that players can "now gain access to Admiral ranks!" if you see where I'm coming from.

Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and the Fleet admirals are all subranks of Admiral.

Thats not entirely true, they are all independant ranks, it would be like sating Leutenant Commander is a sub rank of Commander, or Petty Officer a sub Rank of Chiel Petty Officer or even Charge Chief Petty Officer. 'Admiral' is a rank in its own, generally you will find that the Admiral ranks are called Flag ranks, not Admiral ranks, because ships fly specific flags when they have Admirals onboard. (Captains actually have pennants as well, although thats not technically a flag) :-)

[jdnix]

Yes, in charge of a space station. That is different as it is seen more as a Logistical Position than captaining a star ship. The runabouts dont count as Star Ships to be sure. And He became a Captain when he got the Defiant.

Also, this was SIsco's ship. It wasn't Dax's or Worfs. So when they would take the Defiant out, they would Command Sisco's ship.

Sisco got the Defiant almost two seasons before he became Captain. He got the Defiant in the first episode of Season 2 and was promoted to Captain in the last episode of season 3. During the Dominion War, Dax was made the commanding officer of the Defiant while Sisco was serving on Admiral Ross's staff and she was a Lt. Commander.

[JPJappic]

If anything - Make Admiral an honorary Rank for PVP wins or something. I think that would be cool.

I wouldn't speak for anyone else, but I would rather be a Captain than an Admiral.

I agree with this.

The highest achievable rank at the launch for this game should be Captain. Making Admiral the top rank removes the importance of 'Captain'.

[garrettehall]

Just a note for everybody who wants to replace Admiral with Fleet Captain: Fleet Captain isn't really a true rank in the hierarchy. Not even in TOS. It was basically awarded, very rarely at that, as a mark of distinction for Captains who had performed above and beyond the call of duty, but hadn't yet accumulated the command experience to qualify for a full promotion. If they do plan on expanding achievable player rank in the future it'd be better to either replace Admiral with something like Commodore or Rear Admiral, or simply stick with Admiral and then expand later with a Star system.

[Banar]

Commodore is (as some have already mentioned I think) not a "rank" but a position and title, kind of like a billet.

I am pretty sure that Fleet Captain would be the same thing, hence why they are not in the game as "ranks."

And putting cadet, ensign and Lieutenant JG in game as player ranks would defeat the purpose of the "command your own ship" thing.

Maybe instead of just adding more ranks and focusing on quantity, the solution would be to focus on quality instead. Make the rank of Admiral difficult to attain. (side note, there is nothing stopping Cryptic from adding all the Flag ranks, as all of them are called Admiral no matter which grade of such they are.)

[Suricata]

Commodore is (as some have already mentioned I think) not a "rank" but a position and title, kind of like a billet.

I am pretty sure that Fleet Captain would be the same thing, hence why they are not in the game as "ranks."



I'm not quite with it regarding American Naval terms, but in the British navy Commadore is definatly a rank, I've met quite a few and I'm pretty sure they didn't have made up ranks! fleet captain on the other hand sounds definatly like a position, not a rank

[Varrangian]

I'm not quite with it regarding American Naval terms, but in the British navy Commadore is definatly a rank, I've met quite a few and I'm pretty sure they didn't have made up ranks! fleet captain on the other hand sounds definatly like a position, not a rank

It is not a current rank in the U.S. Navy and from what can be seen from Trek it was not in existence after the 2350's (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks#Flag_officers).

[J.L.Picard]

Wow did they miss a lot of ranks. They should be from highest to lowest (not including the various Admiral titles):

Admiral
Commodore
Fleet Captain
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Lieutenant JG
Ensign
Chief
Crewman

I wonder if they will actually include Klingon Rank structure?

General - yo'aj
Brigadier- wa'Dich'aj
Colonel - cha'Dich
Major- totih
Captain- HoD
Commander- ra'wl'
Lieutenant- ra'wl'Sogh
Warrior 3rd Class- Sogh
Warrior 2nd Class- Sogh lagh
Warrior 1st Class- lagh

errr NO lol.

first of all comodore dont exist in starfleet fleet captain is fleet commander and its not a rank its a status. Im not sure if they use Junior grade in star trek so i cant say there. then on Admiral there are several different admiral ranks too ofc. Admiral = general u got 1 star up to 5 but not sure if in STO it goes tat high.

[Captain_Starblazer]

errr NO lol.
Im not sure if they use Junior grade in star trek so i cant say there.

There is no 'JG' in TOS, Sleeve rank was no stripe for ensign, 1 stripe for Lt. I don't recall ever seeing one 'dashed' stripe on a uniform (like a Lt. Commander is 1 solid stripe and a dashed stripe)

but there is a JG in TNG (1 full circlet and another 'unfilled' circlet on the collar, when a full LT. is 2 filled circlets)

[Banar]

I'm not quite with it regarding American Naval terms, but in the British navy Commadore is definatly a rank, I've met quite a few and I'm pretty sure they didn't have made up ranks! fleet captain on the other hand sounds definatly like a position, not a rank

Yes you're correct, I should have made my post a little more clear, I apologize. I should have stated that I was speaking about the United Stated Navy, which Starfleet is more or less based off of.

[Zepath]

Yeah, I dunno why they didn't include all the ranks ... and make Admiral the first expansion or something.

I wish had gone a different route, but its their game to make or break.

[Captain_Starblazer]

If anything - Make Admiral an honorary Rank for PVP wins or something. I think that would be cool.

I wouldn't speak for anyone else, but I would rather be a Captain than an Admiral.

I agree that 'Admiral' should be something very difficult to get. I STRONGLY DON'T AGREE it should be for something like PvP that would force someone into that. I totally despise content that forces you to PvP just to get that ranking. ('Carebear' and proud of it!)

[fyreblayd33]

Ok I see a lot of back and forth about Sisko's rank and the command of Defiant.

USS Defiant was assigned to Sisko in 2370 where he was given command.

Sisko was promoted to the rank of Captain in 2371.

Just figured I would end that part of it all. lol

[fyreblayd33]

Just a note for everybody who wants to replace Admiral with Fleet Captain: Fleet Captain isn't really a true rank in the hierarchy. Not even in TOS. It was basically awarded, very rarely at that, as a mark of distinction for Captains who had performed above and beyond the call of duty, but hadn't yet accumulated the command experience to qualify for a full promotion. If they do plan on expanding achievable player rank in the future it'd be better to either replace Admiral with something like Commodore or Rear Admiral, or simply stick with Admiral and then expand later with a Star system.

The Ranks of Fleet Captain and Fleet Colonel however are ranks that can only be obtained through an Honourary Status, They are usually personal that can be Admirals but their expertise is still needed in the Field. Only Two Fleet Captains have ever appeared on Star Trek Fleet Captain Pike and Fleet Captain Garth of Izar.

So yes it was in TOS as that is where Fleet Captain Pike was from. He was also the Captain of the USS Enterprise in the pilot for the series.

[fractaleye]

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd want to be a Fleet Captain tbh. Pike and Garth didn't fare too well imo lol. Seems kind of a cursed rank to me.

[fyreblayd33]

Commodore is (as some have already mentioned I think) not a "rank" but a position and title, kind of like a billet.

I am pretty sure that Fleet Captain would be the same thing, hence why they are not in the game as "ranks."

And putting cadet, ensign and Lieutenant JG in game as player ranks would defeat the purpose of the "command your own ship" thing.

Maybe instead of just adding more ranks and focusing on quantity, the solution would be to focus on quality instead. Make the rank of Admiral difficult to attain. (side note, there is nothing stopping Cryptic from adding all the Flag ranks, as all of them are called Admiral no matter which grade of such they are.)


If we go by canon then here is the admiralty rank structure.

One pip in square Commodore
two pips in square Rear Admiral
three pips in square Vice Admiral
four pips in square Admiral
five pips in square Fleet Admiral

So in Star Trek yes Commodore is a rank. The rank structure was based off of the US Navy rank system but remember that is based off of it not followed it rank for rank.

Added for edit:

The rank of Commodore was often mentioned in Star Trek: The Original Series; however the title fell into disuse in the feature films and follow-on series. During Star Trek: The Original Series, a total of six characters appeared on camera as Starfleet Commodores.

* Commodore Jose Mendez ("The Menagerie")
* Commodore Stone ("Court Martial")
* Commodore Barstow ("The Alternative Factor")
* Commodore Matthew Decker ("The Doomsday Machine")
* Commodore George Stocker ("The Deadly Years")
* Commodore Robert Wesley ("The Ultimate Computer")

[Varrangian]

If we go by canon then here is the admiralty rank structure.

One pip in square Commodore
two pips in square Rear Admiral
three pips in square Vice Admiral
four pips in square Admiral
five pips in square Fleet Admiral

So in Star Trek yes Commodore is a rank. The rank structure was based off of the US Navy rank system but remember that is based off of it not followed it rank for rank.

Please see this list (I've already posted) (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks#Flag_officers) as you can see there is not Commodore rank after 2350.

[fyreblayd33]

Please see this list (I've already posted) (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_ranks#Flag_officers) as you can see there is not Commodore rank after 2350.


Ahh but the website that you refer to also gives where they saw the rank. Just because the rank was not seen in the series does not mean that it no longer exsisted. It just means that they did not write a character with that rank into the story line. Just like in the case of Fleet Captain. Is there a rank for it yes. Do you see them no. Does that mean the rank does not exsist? No the rank is there just not being shown in use in the shows. As it stands the admiral ranks as shown on that page start at two pips. That is because one pip is commodore. There was just no commodore written into the scripts.

If you take that rank sturcture the way you put it that means that star fleet had no one above the rank of rear admiral in the 2270's. No admirals that is kind of odd. I guess that the rank was abolished durring that time. No it is just that they were not shown in the Movies or the TV shows durring that time period.

[Varrangian]

Ahh but the website that you refer to also gives where they saw the rank. Just because the rank was not seen in the series does not mean that it no longer exsisted. It just means that they did not write a character with that rank into the story line. Just like in the case of Fleet Captain. Is there a rank for it yes. Do you see them no. Does that mean the rank does not exsist? No the rank is there just not being shown in use in the shows. As it stands the admiral ranks as shown on that page start at two pips. That is because one pip is commodore. There was just no commodore written into the scripts.

Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower half, look in the list. It is exactly where Commodore would be.

[fyreblayd33]

Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower half, look in the list. It is exactly where Commodore would be.

Ok but look at 2360 and later the rank for commodore is open and the one pip is not there. That is only because it is not seen. I do not think an official title would be Rear Admiral Lower Half. Does that really sound like any kind of rank? Lower half? Let's be honest it was a Commodore. Or the costume designer forgot to put the pip on the costume before giving it to the actor lol.

[bobalobabingbong]

They already said that they would like to add more ranks later.

If any of you read the "Player Progression" ask Cryptic, you will see about the ranks, and such.

[fyreblayd33]

They already said that they would like to add more ranks later.


Well that is going to be hard since Admiral is the top Admiralty rank. All they could put in is all the sub ranks and demote everyone if this is the case lol.

[bobalobabingbong]

Well that is going to be hard since Admiral is the top Admiralty rank. All they could put in is all the sub ranks and demote everyone if this is the case lol.

Well... They said it...

But, if you think for a moment, I doubt they will demote people... That makes no sense. But it is still possible to add ranks, without doing that.

[fyreblayd33]

Well... They said it...

But, if you think for a moment, I doubt they will demote people... That makes no sense. But it is still possible to add ranks, without doing that.

What rank would you have above Admiral? They would need to create one that does not exsist.

Oh and for previous discussion on Commodore rank:

Some early publications, from the producers of Star Trek: The Next Generation, indicate that Commodore may still have existed during the time frame of the Next Generation series with the insignia conjectured to appear as five pips worn on a uniform collar. Later publications indicated that the rank of Commodore may have been denoted as a single rank pip insignia, enclosed within an Admiral "rank box", worn on both collars of a uniform.

[Captain_Starblazer]

** DING! ** Gentlemen! To your corners!! :)

Or is it Phase Pistols at dawn! :p

[Pontious]

What I would have liked to have seen is that when you first start the game, you start off as a Cadet, in a training scenario. It's your last test, etc ..., you won't fail, and it just teaches you some of the game mechanics. If you wanted to skip it, that's fine ... and you'd start as an Ensign, in commad of a runabout or something.

After a few limited factional missions, you get promtoed up to Lt., and there you go, you get command of your first starship, a Miranda-class vessel. That way you get to move up the ranks some, it teaches you game mechanics ... and gives new players a one week buffer or something like that so you can sort of see, just by rank, how involved a player is in the game before you add them to a Fleet and waste resources on inactive players.

I think that would have been a nice addition ... a nice training area. Also, the factional missions will introduce you into the PVP and the mounting tensions between the Federation and the Klingon Empire ... and teach you how to gain experience points, etc ....

Anyway, I'm sure there will be a training scenario of some sort ... but it would have been nice to say go through your last cadet scenario ... be able to explore some of Starfleet / Klingon Academy, and you do get a sense of working your way up the ranks ... that you've been in control of your player from the inception ... not just from the Lt. or Lt. Commander rank.

[Inquizitor]

I hope they add Commodore to the official list tehre. Then have the different ranks of admiral either at the start or as a spring board for future content.

[Captain_Starblazer]

Also, the factional missions will introduce you into the PVP .

I don't how a training scenario could do this as it would involve another real-life player to be online during your introduction. Unless you are talking about an computer-controlled NPC of opposite faction instructing you in what PvP is like. (And not everyone is gaa-gaa about PvP, it should be an option to skip this part)

[jakethemook1]

*bump*

Should the Admiral be achievable from launch? Not for me, the idea of a system full of Admirals flying around a few weeks/months after launch just seems a bit :confused: Also where do Cryptic go for player advancement in the future? Do you become a Q?:p It has been suggested elsewhere (Big Ideas thread and here) that Commadore or some alternative is used as the final tier for rank from launch (Federation). Or maybe even knock everything down one rank and make captain the top tier.

So lets reopen the debate. Should the Admiral be achievable from launch?

[Captain_Starblazer]

I particularly think that each rank grade should have a certain 'time in grade' (real life time) before they can advance to the next rank. This way you don't have someone who almost kills themselves playing 20 hours a day to super-advance in order to get to 'admiral'.

[Pyrceval]

*bump*

Should the Admiral be achievable from launch? Not for me, the idea of a system full of Admirals flying around a few weeks/months after launch just seems a bit :confused: Also where do Cryptic go for player advancement in the future? Do you become a Q?:p It has been suggested elsewhere (Big Ideas thread and here) that Commadore or some alternative is used as the final tier for rank from launch (Federation). Or maybe even knock everything down one rank and make captain the top tier.

So lets reopen the debate. Should the Admiral be achievable from launch?


I agree, I would rather it not be achievable at launch nor be required to gain the top tier ships (again, canon support says...) however...it's a 'rub me the wrong way' kind of thing and far from gamebreaking. I think what Cryptic is missing with their comments of 'rank not really being important...' is that in a game based on Star Trek, a military organization, rank is extremely important. Remember Cryptic guys you are making the game, sure, but your intent is to please the public and make $$ off of it...yes, most Trek fans/gamers will try it out...but we will only stay if we like what you've done with the place.

[jakethemook1]

Certainly far from game breaking, but just part of the 'immersion' of the game. Ive got an open mind with this, and if anyone can support the inclusion of Admirals from launch I'd be happy to hear your perspective ( I suppose ' I just want to be an Admiral' is a valid point;)), but at the moment all ive seen is Cryptic saying top rank is Admiral and everyone either saying nothing or 'well I dont really agree, how about this?'.

[JPJappic]

I agree, I would rather it not be achievable at launch nor be required to gain the top tier ships (again, canon support says...) however...it's a 'rub me the wrong way' kind of thing and far from gamebreaking. I think what Cryptic is missing with their comments of 'rank not really being important...' is that in a game based on Star Trek, a military organization, rank is extremely important. Remember Cryptic guys you are making the game, sure, but your intent is to please the public and make $$ off of it...yes, most Trek fans/gamers will try it out...but we will only stay if we like what you've done with the place.

I agree with this totally. We share the same ideas regarding this issue.