In the books, Calier absorb the Borg, STO tho...

[Forrinn]

In the Star Trek books, the Calier absorb the Borg (in essence, its poetic how the Borg are assimalated). However, in STO, the Borg are a threat yet again (or still). Does a Borg revival occur, or is there a divergence in timelines between the Star Trek books timeline, and STO's timeline?

Forrinn

[Rota]

Books aren't really hard canon

[fractaleye]

Yeah, I haven't read too many ST books (a couple Q ones, Imzadi, that's about it), but I searched for 'Calier' at Memory Alpha and Beta and couldn't find them. Sounds interesting though; could you give me the name of the book(s)? Might look them up when I'm done with my current one.

[Rota]

Episodes and movies are really the only canon that counts.

books are allowed to be ignored.
games are allowed to be ignored.

You can take what you want from them, but really can't hold others to the same.
Most people ignore the books entirely, and unless this game is an insane success, STO characters and events will count for nothing as real canon

[fractaleye]

Oh, I agree, Rota. It's just now I'm curious about those book(s) Forinn mentioned. I'll probably go search Memory Beta a bit more and try to find them

[ibby1kanobi]

Oh, I agree, Rota. It's just now I'm curious about those book(s) Forinn mentioned. I'll probably go search Memory Beta a bit more and try to find them

They are from the Star Trek Destiny trilogy. They were actually quite good....I enjoyed them anyway. I had a topic about this trilogy a while back, I just really liked that they got rid of the Borg.

Edit: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Destiny

That's the link.

[fractaleye]

Thanks, ibby1kanobi. I'll check them out.

[Late_wolfy]

Yeah the Destiny trilogy was quite good, it also took the Titan, Post TNG Novels on the Ent-E and maybe one or 2 other series of novels, and alligned them in the same 'universe' as such, makeing way for the novels about the Typhon Pact.

However, Star Trek Online isnt going along with the canon from those novels, It follows the canon of the movies where Romulus is destroyed, but being set 30 years after TNG, Cryptic is then createing what happened in THERE star trek universe. Obviously, if theres another movie or TV series set after Nemesis, the writers/producers COULD MAYBE base it in the Star Trek Online Path to 2409 if they so wanted, or they could shape the canon of star trek however they see fit instead.

[Musterion]

Taaaaasty tasty book spoilers.

[Forrinn]

Indeed, it was the Destiny trilogy. I feal that the books are indeed as much canon, as the Star Wars books are. If not for the books, how would the story continue? You shouldn't dismiss something just because it doesn't have moving pictures :)

Forrinn

[Late_wolfy]

Indeed, it was the Destiny trilogy. I feal that the books are indeed as much canon, as the Star Wars books are. If not for the books, how would the story continue? You shouldn't dismiss something just because it doesn't have moving pictures :)

Forrinn

I woudln't say the books are in the same canon as the Episodes and Movies, then again, star trek canon completely contradicts its self all over the place.

Howver, the books could be considered to have there own kind of canon, based on the tv/movie canon. If that makes sence

[mezlabor]

Indeed, it was the Destiny trilogy. I feal that the books are indeed as much canon, as the Star Wars books are. If not for the books, how would the story continue? You shouldn't dismiss something just because it doesn't have moving pictures :)

Forrinn

Well then thats not very canon the Star Wars books are soft canon as well. Lucas came and overrode a few of the books when he made the prequels.

[Cthulhuvong]

Well then thats not very canon the Star Wars books are soft canon as well. Lucas came and overrode a few of the books when he made the prequels.

But he also took a large amount from the books when he made the Prequels. Coruscant for one, was made up by one of the book authors, not Lucas.

There are levels of Canon for Star Wars, with each more important than the next.


For Star Trek, there is simply Canon (Movies and shows) and Non-Canon (Books and games).

[mezlabor]

But he also took a large amount from the books when he made the Prequels. Coruscant for one, was made up by one of the book authors, not Lucas.

There are levels of Canon for Star Wars, with each more important than the next.


For Star Trek, there is simply Canon (Movies and shows) and Non-Canon (Books and games).

I can't keep up with whats canon and what isn't in Star Wars or when things become non canon based on the whims of George Lucas. Honestly I think its time he retire from Star Wars entirely and hand over the series to newer fresher blood. Someone once said on a different forum... Bioware is stewarding the franchise better then he is now...

[Fleming86]

Star trek books have a habbit of contradicting each other, it would be hard to pick and choose exactly which books were canon and which are not

[Chili-Midnight_Squadron]

Its not really a bias against things that don't having moving pictures associated with them. CBS/Paramount have formally defined canon in Star Trek as only events in movies and on TV. Simple.

[fractaleye]

I think a lot of the confusion some have with what is canon comes from the definition of the word 'canon' itself.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon

If you go past definitions 1, 2, and 3a (mainly because of their religious nature; I love the Futurama episode that talks about Star Trek becoming a religion myself, but that's going on a tangent) and look at the other definitions, the word 'canon' itself is pretty flexible imo.

Sure, CBS has said that only the tv shows and movies and certain other things are canon, blah blah blah. I accept that, but not merely because they say it is. I've not read to many of the books, so I go by the shows and movies. That said, I personally think it's up to the individual to decide what is 'canon' to them or not. (And I put 'canon' in quotation marks because it has become a four-letter word to me, along with 'immersion'.)

Besides, it hardly matters imo. STO will produce it's own 'canon' that won't apply to the other Star Trek works (be it shows, movies, books, whatever).

[The.Grand.Nagus]

In the Star Trek books, the Calier absorb the Borg (in essence, its poetic how the Borg are assimalated). However, in STO, the Borg are a threat yet again (or still). Does a Borg revival occur, or is there a divergence in timelines between the Star Trek books timeline, and STO's timeline?

Forrinn

The books are not canon, so STO is not bound by their story. The books are on possible way things could go after Nemesis(for the Borg), while STO is another. Neither is "right" or "wrong", as neither books or games are canon.

[Gfischer]

Star trek books have a habbit of contradicting each other, it would be hard to pick and choose exactly which books were canon and which are not

*nods a bit*
The only canon I found in books to hold true is the series... and other books from that author. For example: If you read something from Vornholt; chances are he could talk about a previous book he wrote. Peter David (Rock and a Hard Place, Q-in-Law, Imzadi etc) does it a lot and there are even books based on other books and sometimes having read one book will explain another better.

...I miss being a high schook kid who could read a novel a week...

[fractaleye]

*nods a bit*
The only canon I found in books to hold true is the series... and other books from that author. For example: If you read something from Vornholt; chances are he could talk about a previous book he wrote. Peter David (Rock and a Hard Place, Q-in-Law, Imzadi etc) does it a lot and there are even books based on other books and sometimes having read one book will explain another better.

...I miss being a high schook kid who could read a novel a week...

Man, now I want to read Q-in-Law (I can still picture Lwaxana Troi chasing Q around the Enterprise with an ax :D) and Imazdi again.

[ryuto]

Was the Destiny series the one with the NX-02 Columbia found around the time of DS9 crashed on a planet?

[BaakCha]

Episodes and movies are really the only canon that counts.

books are allowed to be ignored.
games are allowed to be ignored.

You can take what you want from them, but really can't hold others to the same.
Most people ignore the books entirely, and unless this game is an insane success, STO characters and events will count for nothing as real canon

Anybody doubting this needs to look no further than the fat-man himself, George Lucas. He sets up a universe in the 70's and leaves it alone for twenty years. In the interim hordes of people start filling in that universe with tons of stories and information. Then when he decides to make more movies, he basically shoots a gigantic wad all over what has been for two decades and just so they don't feel left out, he rubs a small one out on the older movies.

I hate George Lucas.....just a little bit less than Julio Torres.

[phlyto]

The problem with the Destiny trilogy is that Peter David decided to make the Borg insanely overpowered. He did it for a logical reason: Voyager's finale largely eliminated them as a serious threat. However, he went about it in a less than logical way...

Not to spoil it too badly for any one who hasn't been subjected to it, but, He could have simply made them adapt in the traditional sense, and then thrown in a suitably diabolical development. Perhaps online with the angry semi-individualized Borg we saw towards the end of TNG... And not had to resort to the assimilation by absorption idea which costs us my favorite planet(oid), a good Admiral, and simultainiously makes Starfleet Command look like the biggest group of idiots ever assembled.

To me, that entire Borg invasion story came off as very badly written fan fiction (It was hard for me to read, I actually found my self putting the book down and asking wtf?) ... and I think that was very well emphasized by the following authors essentially needing to write the Borg out of existence.

The solution to the problem, however, was very well written. The Calier were an interesting race. The fate of the Columbia was also a very dynamic story, and, I enjoyed the origin of the Borg far more than what was presented in Star Trek: Legacy.


...

But yes... lets forget it ever happened.

Save the Planet(oid).

[Gideon]

I haven't read the Destiny series yet but it's on my list. Even if they say they got rid of the Borg, a good bad guy is hard to keep down. Suspension of disbelief is essential to enjoying science fiction and even if they never explain how the Borg come back I'll think up some explanation on my own that works for me and get on with it. I've found that part of being able to enjoy a book, movie, TV show etc... is for me not too get hung up on inconsistencies.

[Tain]

The books aren't canon so its nothing to worry about. If anything they serve as a nice pool of potential material as far as ships/characters go, but story wise, nothing that happens in the books "actually" happens in star trek.

[haplo8]

Yeah, I haven't read too many ST books (a couple Q ones, Imzadi, that's about it), but I searched for 'Calier' at Memory Alpha and Beta and couldn't find them. Sounds interesting though; could you give me the name of the book(s)? Might look them up when I'm done with my current one.

They are from the Star Trek Destiny trilogy. They were actually quite good....I enjoyed them anyway. I had a topic about this trilogy a while back, I just really liked that they got rid of the Borg.

Edit: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Destiny

That's the link.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Caeliar

They are the Caeliar, not the Calier.

[Equilibrius]

Cryptic is writing its own ST lore here. Build upon the canon in shows and movies and borrowing from the soft-canon in books. Keep it going Cryptic! You're doing a fine job! :cool:

[idoliside]

Its not entirely true that the books are self dependent. Currently the authors of Treklit are sharing the same canon, especially with the TNG, DS9, VOY relaunch series. For example all the books in those era's lately have been about the aftermath of the Borg's destruction. There are very few books now being released which don't refer to previous events in some way.

With exception to the shatnerverse, he has his own continuity.

But STO can have it's own variation too, it's all good. If Abrams can come and re-write trek then im sure the devs here can too. Plus having the borg in-game gives the devs a good excuse to make epic bosses and fleet battles. unless the add transphasic torpedoes and inbalance the whole thing

(note: probably going to see some "the road to 2401" where the borg adapt to transphasic torpedoes, and wipe out the Caelier lol)

[Kazzy]

After reading the Destiny Novels and some of the other TNG relaunches before it, the Borg were totally overused as a threat and it's probably a good thing imo, that the writers decided to finally get rid of it and move on to other things - such as the Typhon pact which has got me really excited.

Also it seems like the writers of the post-tv series books are generally on the same page as far as overall vision of the universe goes and are working together on a larger scale plan to keep their continuity constant.

I would like to say I recommend the DS9 relaunch books and its a shame that they've slowed down in their rate of publication as that continued their story really well.

[128hoodmario]

*nods a bit*
The only canon I found in books to hold true is the series... and other books from that author. For example: If you read something from Vornholt; chances are he could talk about a previous book he wrote. Peter David (Rock and a Hard Place, Q-in-Law, Imzadi etc) does it a lot and there are even books based on other books and sometimes having read one book will explain another better.

...I miss being a high schook kid who could read a novel a week...

I'm an incredibly intelligent school kid and it takes me close to a month to read a novel :( Probably spend too much time here lol

[Commander_Nate]

Was the Destiny series the one with the NX-02 Columbia found around the time of DS9 crashed on a planet?

Yeah, that's the one.

I too liked how they got rid of the Borg. They were old and played out. Besides, I was prediciting it would only be a matter of time until sometime in the 25th or 26th century, the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, and other major powers around the galaxy would master transwarp, slipstream, or some other tech that would allow them to become true galactic powers. At that point, they'd probably all decide it would be in the galaxy's mutual interest to team up and eliminate the Borg forever.

Either that or they could have just given Windows to the Borg and let the Blue Screen of Death work it's magic.

[Sir_Cedric]

I view the books like I view Mirror Mirror, it's taking place in a different universe, so it's not canon to Trek Universe Prime. I really hope STO is viewed as Trek Universe Prime. Why? Cause I am hoping events in the game, are picked up in any funture TV show. Like the game, the show can start about 30 to 60 years later. But whatever we do in the game, should be part of the history of the new show. Just my wishful thinking I guess.

[idoliside]

I view the books like I view Mirror Mirror, it's taking place in a different universe, so it's not canon to Trek Universe Prime. I really hope STO is viewed as Trek Universe Prime. Why? Cause I am hoping events in the game, are picked up in any funture TV show. Like the game, the show can start about 30 to 60 years later. But whatever we do in the game, should be part of the history of the new show. Just my wishful thinking I guess.

Won't happen sadly, CBS would have to come up with ideas in-house, otherwise they would have hundreds of players demanding royalties.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

I view the books like I view Mirror Mirror, it's taking place in a different universe, so it's not canon to Trek Universe Prime.

Its fine that you view it that way, so long as you understand that just because you view it that way doesnt "make it so" :o

[Irish-Fury]

Just so damned tired of the Borg...

[Sinclair]

I read those books. They were a good read.

But honestly I thought it was out of line.

Why take the the Borg, the federation's worse enemy, and take them off the playing field like that.

It was a waste of a good foe.

Good thing that the novels are not canon.

[Dext]

In the Star Trek books, the Calier absorb the Borg (in essence, its poetic how the Borg are assimalated). However, in STO, the Borg are a threat yet again (or still). Does a Borg revival occur, or is there a divergence in timelines between the Star Trek books timeline, and STO's timeline?

Forrinn

Book are what is called soft canon, Hard Canon is what is on the shows an movies. Games also fall in to soft canon as long as it is not a Mod to a game then it is no kind of canon. Soft Canon can become hard canon but only if it is on the shows or a movie about star trek.(A star Trek Show that is.)

[Deadjester1]

I actually didnt get a chance to read thoes books, so if somebody wouldnt mind, how did th Borg get taken out and who is that race that did it that is mentioned?