Do you think STO will succeed?

[Aslan_chShran]

I've been waiting 10+ years for a Star Trek MMORPG so I want it to succeed but I've seen over the last year so much disinterest in Star Trek it's sometimes disheartening. I want to know if other people have had different experiences - for me, whenever I bring up STO I get told (for the most part) "I don't like Star Trek, but, hey, there's going to be a Star Wars MMORPG coming out!!!!!!" which always depresses me. I know STO will get players, but the question is - how MANY players/subscribers?

From what I can tell those who went to Pax were thrilled at the space combat and not so much at the ground combat, but the space combat looks so good I'm trying to figure out how people could NOT be interested, but even with that I've gotten some "yeah it looks ok" replies rathern then "OMG that was AWESOME!!!!"

So what do you think? Have you had different reactions then I've been experiencing? I really want to hear positive responses because the anti-Star Trek/pro-Star Wars things I keep running into really bother me!

[jblancato]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

[knightofhyrule730]

Make sure that warhead hits TOR HQ, rekhan. just saying.

[evan.is.weyoun]

Even if I wasn't into STO, that space combat demo would've brought me right in. And, IMO, the ground combat looks like a heck of a lot of fun too. If it's anything like CO, I'll have a blast playing it.

[Hansol]

omg this kind of post all over like in the starting days of WoW.

zzzzzzzzz

[Sorez]

The whole SWTor bandwagon will come to a sudden halt when they realise it isn't the swg killer / replacement but is just another wow clone (abiet with voiceover and good story) its just a single player online game.. alot of people will play it but how many will stick to it, alot of swtor's hype comes from the old disgruntled anti soe gang.

Every mmo is going to be the next big thing until it launches

I personally think STO has the potential for more longeivity than most as its got a large fanbase out there, they're just not as vocal as the swtor crowd. i'm just hoping for a solid game that can grow over time

I think it will be successful in its own way, i'm not anticipating it being huge but if it can get average to good mmo sub numbers it should be around for a while

[andrewprofit]

Likewise I was surprised the ip holders didn't push for mmorpg's sooner. The opportunity to take the text and a tv episodes and a few movies and turn it into a living virtual universe. I have played dozens of space combat sims over the years. Microsoft had a space fighter game that was probable the most battle fun.

Starflight had 270 stars and 800 fully explorable planet 6 alien races to interact with back in 1987 it was the most immersive space game I have played. The next most would be elite fronter II which let players land on planets and fly around them. However, I like the continuity of being able to get out of my space ship and explore the surface of the planet so Starflight is still number one in my game book. Since then there have been many many games with smaller scopes, enb, X's, elite's, privater, wing commander, SWG, Eve, mankind, jumpgate and on and on.

I think this game will be a great success combining the IP hopefully in a way that is explorable on foot and in space in a way that is fun and immersive.

[eqfan592]

After seeing how well the new Star Trek movie did, I just can't say that I agree that there is a great deal of "disinterest" in Star Trek. Love it or hate it, that movie did very well (and frankly, I loved every second of it, and I'm an old school Trek fan). I think interest in Star Trek is at something of a high right now because of the new movie, and in a smaller way because of this game. This game is generating more and more interest in the gaming community, especially as we approach the begining of closed beta. I think Cryptic is on the right track with this game, and I honestly hope it will succeed. :)

[Acyl]

So what do you think? Have you had different reactions then I've been experiencing? I really want to hear positive responses because the anti-Star Trek/pro-Star Wars things I keep running into really bother me!

Most of my RL friends aren't into MMOs. Either a) they don't like monthly subs, or b) they're console/handheld gamers, not PC. But the people whom I've shown STO screenshots and videos all think the game looks awesome, and it's actually kinda tempting. One of my buddies admitted that if STO were on console, he'd be all over it.

The folks I know online, though - from other games - are a lot more conservative regarding STO. Most people don't have objections regarding the game itself, though...they agree the screenshots and info about the game is sexy. But many of my guildmates are uncertain about Cryptic and Atari as companies. A lot of 'em are waiting to see how Champions Online pans out. Will it succeed or fail? How will Cryptic handle game balance? That sorta thing.

Which is reasonable, admittedly - the real test of an MMO is not whether it's busy at launch (because Champions definitely is), but whether it's still busy a few months down the line. I played Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault when they were still new. Wouldn't have guessed, then, that they'd end up going wahoonie-shaped.

However, bear in mind that an MMO doesn't need to draw World of Warcraft numbers to be successful. If STO gets 200-400k players at launch, that'd probably be enough to guarantee the game's operation for a few years at least. Assuming the game doesn't hemmorage players after the first couple months, anyway. There's two things to consider...initial player numbers, and then player retention.

I suspect Star Trek is a sufficiently big name that there will be at least some draw based on that alone. Whether folks stick around afterwards, well, only gameplay will tell.

Gameplay and community relations, anyway.

[Avatar_of_Champions]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

Meh... you need to ask for a few hundred trillion... Bernie Maddoff wipes his behind with billions..

[Galv]

I really think it will succed. The new movie alone has brought Star Trek back to being popular again. Lets face it the IP has been run into the gound for the past 10 years maybe more, not blaming Picard and his crew but the recent TNG movies/spin offs (took a nose dive after First Contact for some reason) were so bad it was almost painful watching them.

I really will sound like a Cryptic fanboy (can't help it having seen all the PaX coverge), but to me so far i really think Cryptic can do for Trek games what JJ did for the movies and IP as a whole. Not trying to push a release or anything, but if they can ride on the back of the new movie release this christmas they've got a good chance or catching the new young fans the IP has picked up (not to mention more females fans of new Spook and Kirk). But i guess only time will tell.

[Swordopolis]

STO will launch a year behind schedule, support will wane, and after three months there will be only 17 active users who all just sit on the beaches of Risa and drink Romulan Ale all day. :p

[Lictalon]

One thing to keep in mind OP, is that STO hasnt even really begun hitting the wide-area advertising/PR campaign.

It's fair to assume (or at least I hope so IMO) that most of the people on these forums are those who not only love "The Trek", but were motivated enough to actively search for it and keep an eye on it.
(Again, IMO) I'd think its a fair bet to say that there is a decent chunk of the "mainstream" gaming population that may not know about STO, or havent heard enough to peak their interest untill the Advertising begins in full-swing. PAX and other recent conventions/shows are just the start..

The short version: Closer to launch = more public awareness and excitment = larger player base.

Dont sweat the infamous 'Trek vs Wars' debate here, there will always be the die-hards on both sides, instead try to look at it as even more potential addicts to STO :D

[ChicksDigHarleys]

It will do OK, not great IMO. If they get LotRO numbers, I think that's the best they can expect. TBH, the fact this game is being designed to be a console port is a red flag for me, and I know many others are skeptical of the design compromises that needed to be made to get this game to be console port friendly.

IMO this game will be too casual to appeal to harcore Star trek fans. Maybe I'm being unfair because we don't have all the details, but I don't think the game will have the depth along the lines of the original SWG that I think Trek fans would want. Trek fans are also notorious for taking the IP seriously and will have a high percentage of people that will RP, and if they only have one server and are lax on naming rules, that will drive off many people that don't want to see Capt Chubbychaser and NCC-1337 USS Ipwnnoobs. These forums launched before TOR's and has half the accounts created. Star Trek just isn't as big as Star Wars right now.

It's looking like this game will launch before TOR, so that's a positive in STO's favor. We don't have to guess if this game will have space combat, unlike TOR. Personally, I'm more of a fan of STO/EVE style tactical combat over twitch dogfighting, so even if the ground game isn't as good, the space combat looks great. The "no levels" aspect will appeal to the sandbox crowd, even if for example, the crafting system isn't what people hope for.

[Avatar_of_Champions]

As to whether or not STO will suceed, that depends on your definition of success.

Do I think it will do WoW well? No.
Do I think it will do Warhammer online well with 3 million plus subscriptions? Yes

While SWG had space content it was much more Arcade driven (to me, especially since all the spaceships were one man fighters). It has nothing of the feel of a true SPACE MMO.

With the release of the movie there is a renewed interest in the STO IP. And yes a lot of younger people are drooling over Jedi and Wookies. But from where I sit a lot of older people are interested in STO. Especially the Space combat/exploration.

And think of it this way, SW:TOR has to compete against every other ground based MMO on the market including STO.
Whereas, STO's only real compition will be EVE ONLINE and JUMPGATE( I think), Anarchy Online and SW: OR for Scifi MMO's.
And neither one of those have ground based action at all (At last not right now).
Which gives STO a bit of a lead being both Sci-fi, having space combat, and a decent ground combat system.

[Acyl]

It will do OK, not great IMO. If they get LotRO numbers, I think that's the best they can expect. TBH, the fact this game is being designed to be a console port is a red flag for me, and I know many others are skeptical of the design compromises that needed to be made to get this game to be console port friendly.

That's an excellent point, actually. This alone is a major turn-off for many folks I know.

In a way, the existence of Champions both helps and hurts Cryptic. All the MMO gamers I talk to agree that the character customization in Champions is A-List top notch, the best thing ever, and that bodes very well for Star Trek Online.

At the same time, Champions is perceived as a very ultra-casual 'lightweight' MMO, more of an action game than anything else. While that's not a bad thing for Champions, a lot of folks who'd otherwise be interested in a Star Trek MMO are telling me...well, if Star Trek Online turns out like that, it won't be very good because it ain't Star Trek.

Makes me sad, but what can ya do?

[ChicksDigHarleys]

As to whether or not STO will suceed, that depends on your definition of success.

Do I think it will do WoW well? No.
Do I think it will do Warhammer online well with 3 million plus subscriptions? Yes

While SWG had space content it was much more Arcade driven (to me, especially since all the spaceships were one man fighters). It has nothing of the feel of a true SPACE MMO.

With the release of the movie there is a renewed interest in the STO IP. And yes a lot of younger people are drooling over Jedi and Wookies. But from where I sit a lot of older people are interested in STO. Especially the Space combat/exploration.

And think of it this way, SW:TOR has to compete against every other ground based MMO on the market including STO.
Whereas, STO's only real compition will be EVE ONLINE and JUMPGATE( I think), Anarchy Online and SW: OR for Scifi MMO's.
And neither one of those have ground based action at all (At last not right now).
Which gives STO a bit of a lead being both Sci-fi, having space combat, and a decent ground combat system.

I'd bet you STO will NEVER see 3 million subs. I can't think of a sci-fi MMO that has had much more than 300k past launch month. TBH I'm not sure TOR will even have more than 300k for more than a few months.

[Zailyn]

The folks I know online, though - from other games - are a lot more conservative regarding STO. Most people don't have objections regarding the game itself, though...they agree the screenshots and info about the game is sexy. But many of my guildmates are uncertain about Cryptic and Atari as companies. A lot of 'em are waiting to see how Champions Online pans out. Will it succeed or fail? How will Cryptic handle game balance? That sorta thing.
retention.


I play Champions and its pretty fun... but looking at the Star Trek gameplay that we've seen and the subtle changes made to systems shared by both games it really looks like Star Trek may turn out to be the stronger performer when all is said and done.

[wrussandrews]

Yes, I think it will be profitable.

How much so remains to be seen.

[Feryk]

That's an excellent point, actually. This alone is a major turn-off for many folks I know.

In a way, the existence of Champions both helps and hurts Cryptic. All the MMO gamers I talk to agree that the character customization in Champions is A-List top notch, the best thing ever, and that bodes very well for Star Trek Online.

At the same time, Champions is perceived as a very ultra-casual 'lightweight' MMO, more of an action game than anything else. While that's not a bad thing for Champions, a lot of folks who'd otherwise be interested in a Star Trek MMO are telling me...well, if Star Trek Online turns out like that, it won't be very good because it ain't Star Trek.

Makes me sad, but what can ya do?

If the game is fun, and gets rave reviews, your friends will line up to play it like everyone else.

If Cryptic does not deliver a great experience for whatever reason, people will move on. The use of the Champions graphics engine means nothing to the playability or content of the game. I seriously doubt that STO will just be a Champions sci fi knockoff.

[JoJimGregory]

So what do you think? Have you had different reactions then I've been experiencing? I really want to hear positive responses because the anti-Star Trek/pro-Star Wars things I keep running into really bother me!

I don't like to disrespect other games in development since I believe every MMO endeavor should have it's fair shake at making a successful title ... however, ahem, I will give my own fair and completely unbiased one sentence assessment of what I think each of these two excellent titles will bring to the MMO world.

Star Trek Online will be a deep content MMO with amazing space combat, thrilling ground combat, discovery and exploration of hundreds of entirely new worlds, a fascinating resource discovery and high tech crafting system, a comprehensive, trainable and gear-equipable multiple pet system, the ability to customize not only the player avatar and pet bridge officers among science, engineering and tactical skill sets but will also provide fully functional customization of actively crewed star ships and is based upon hundreds of television episodes and several movies to provide galaxy-wide potential for broad PvE among many life forms and focused PvP conflict between two of the most classic and iconic science fiction factions known and will furthermore provide a depth of play that will support ongoing years of satisfying entertainment for both soloists as well as support for comprehensive guild, aka fleet, management.

Star Wars The Old Republic will be a fun RPG with multi-pathed but essentially single-player storylines intertwined to emulate a true MMO with consequences-based flashpoint decision trees and conflict potential between the light and dark side factions with mostly ground based but the occasional space based scripted encounters that is overall based upon six movies and that may lose it's luster once the voiced storylines are completed.

Hmmm, that was a bit too wordy. Okay, let's try this instead ...

STO is a true MMO and SWTOR isn't.

How's that? :p

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Star Wars The Old Republic will be a fun RPG with multi-pathed but essentially single-player storylines intertwined to emulate a true MMO with consequences-based flashpoint decision trees and conflict potential between the light and dark side factions with mostly ground based but the occasional space based scripted encounters that is overall based upon six movies and that may lose it's luster once the voiced storylines are completed.

Hmmm, that was a bit too wordy. Okay, let's try this instead ...

STO is a true MMO and SWTOR isn't.

How's that? :p


I have my doubts about TOR as much as I do about STO, but how about waiting until we know more about TOR before proclaiming it not a true MMO?

[Whoppin]

I really hope it does. I've been let down before....AoC...WAR...


Been wanting a Star Trek MMO since I daoc was released.

[JTtaylor]

lets be honest though. An MMORPG is defined by it's players. I stopped playing SWG not because the battle system changed and such but because the other players ruined it for me. As soon as you left space dock you had like about 40 player made NPC's shouting buy this buy that. so badly you couldn't even see anything else of the screen anymore. Then it was the players themselves. Instead of any kind of RPG it was constant talk about how high level their gear was. how I should level up. Which guns I should use and soforth.

SWTOR looks very good. The all speech missions and all is a nice selling point because you know people will love it. The game will be very good and depending on how the players act and such it is going to be a huge game. You just can't deny that.

People are more into SW then ST because people love the mindless big fast battles. In ST you have to pay attention else you have no idea what's going on. And they use very big words. Lets just say it like that.

STO will be good. It may maybe not surpass SWTOR. But I think the goal is to make the game successfull on it's own. And not worry about if it will beat SWTOR.

[fractaleye]

Based on the little information we have been given so far, I think STO will do just fine. Eve has never even surpassed 500k users, and it's been going for 6+ years now. So I think the debate over actual number of users is a moot one. I think it all really depends on how much fun and re-playability STO will have that decides it. So far, I'm happy with the combat (because, lets face it, that's all we've seen barring various tidbits of other info) and predict a long and prosperous life for STO. (And I'm a pessimist, so that's actually not my usual outlook on things; I just think Cryptic is doing a good job with the game so far, is all) But, we'll see...

[Rivaris]

it all depends so far it looks pretty good with the info we got.

combat vs npcs what i seen from the demo very very good. ( ofc the ai dammage must have been scaled down so the players didnt get owned or so i hope), ground combat looks ok but might need a little polish here and there ect.

ofc we have no info about non-combat stuff and nothing of crafting, same goes for pvp we dont know anything. wich are also major parts of the game.

but so far cryptic seems to be diong good only time will tell if everything goes good then yeah i see STO getting more then a mil subs. all the only thing worried about that is the single server with that i feel cryptic is gunning for a piece of pie thats 200-400k subs at best.

any 1 have any numbers of CO sales?

[Chusha]

I do hope that STO succeeds, I've been wanting a good space type MMO experience that has the best of both ground and space combat, exploration, and that doesn't have that annoying 'hummmmmmmmmm bzorp clash hummmmmmmmm" of those pesky Star Wars Lightsabers you run into every 5 minutes. Granted Star Wars Galaxies was fun, but most of that seemed to be based on ground combat.

Another one I ended up loving was Earth & Beyond. I can't count how many hours I'd spend on my old dial up connection with friends far and wide assisting each other with leveling up and creating wormholes to other places in that universe. Alas when Electronic Arts announced they were pulling the plug I was one of those hoping they'd allow fans to purchase the server side application to continue running E&B as a fan based service. I still miss E&B and still have my installation discs.

I've also been a huge fan of Origin's Wing Commander series. Spending countless hours and destroying many cheap joysticks playing the games. Even Origin's Privateer series was an absolute blast.

And now with STO on the horizon... I hope to spend many hours living the dreams I had back when I sat watching Captain Picard and the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D to one day experience being a ship captain myself.

- T

[JoJimGregory]

I have my doubts about TOR as much as I do about STO, but how about waiting until we know more about TOR before proclaiming it not a true MMO?

You're right, I was being a bit sarcastic ... perhaps even sardonic. This is the STO boards after all. But still, we've already seen what Bioware is planning to do with their heavily voiced, storyline flashpoint encounters, and I've been witness to many MMOs in development over the last decade and have a good feel for the direction a development cycle is taking. Beyond that, we know that Bioware is extremely good at designing single-player RPGs, and so they are naturally bringing that excellent talent into something that emulates an MMO (you can bring a few friends into those single-player style, scripted encounters), but I fear it won't quite hit the true MMO mark. It appears that that players will need to follow very linear development paths with voiced flashpoints interspersed where you can change paths. Linear is not a term I associate with a true MMO.

Think of it like you're a train. There are six or eight train tracks, one for each class, running essentially parallel. While on one track, your decisions at the flashpoint encounters can make you switch tracks. But all along, you're following what is essentially a linear path (with switches) that you must basically do in order. It's like six versions of SW:KotOR, woven into something they're calling an MMO.

On the positive side, SWTOR will likely be a really fun, cinematic game to play, but I seriously doubt that it will enthrall players quite so much once those richly scripted storylines are complete. I would also bet the farm that no matter how cool they design the Bounty Hunter, Smuggler and other non-force sensitive classes that there will be a gross over-abundance of Jedi and Sith players waggling their light-sabers across the galaxy.

I'll probably play it just because I believe the voiced flashpoint element will be fun and well-designed for what it is, but I seriously doubt I'll cancel my STO account for the couple of months that it may take to tear through the storyline. And I hate repeating something so linear with alternate characters, so likely just one run through for me will be about it.

I just don't see longevity in SWTORs future, but I do see it as a fertile ground for battalions of light-saber fanatics. I'm also sure they'll have some sort of large battlefield PvP style areas. It should be very colorful, especially at night.

[Esgar]

[COLOR="Plum"]You're right, I was being a bit sarcastic ... perhaps even sardonic. This is the STO boards after all. But still, we've already seen what Bioware is planning to do with their heavily voiced, storyline flashpoint encounters, and I've been witness to many MMOs in development over the last decade and have a good feel for the direction a development cycle is taking. Beyond that, we know that Bioware is extremely good at designing single-player RPGs, and so they are naturally bringing that excellent talent into something that emulates an MMO (you can bring a few friends into those single-player style, scripted encounters), but I fear it won't quite hit the true MMO mark. It appears that that players will need to follow very linear development paths with voiced flashpoints interspersed where you can change paths. Linear is not a term I associate with a true MMO.
]

Well, there ARE PvP and multiplayer elements they've said...they're just keeping those under wraps right now.



As for STO, I think it should do just fine. It's shaping up to be a great game, if the PAX booth sucking in unwitting pre-trekkies is any indication.

[Varrangian]

Think of it like you're a train. There are six or eight train tracks, one for each class, running essentially parallel. While on one track, your decisions at the flashpoint encounters can make you switch tracks. But all along, you're following what is essentially a linear path (with switches) that you must basically do in order. It's like six versions of SW:KotOR, woven into something they're calling an MMO.

For what it is worth I agree with you (and around here my agreement is usually accompanied with a stigma :p ). The simple fact that SWTOR decided that Bounty Hunters are attached to the Sith faction and troopers are attached to the Republic is a prime example of the linear experience they have planned for the game. I'm sure it will be a fun experience, but it will be far more "scripted" than most MMOers are used to and certainly won't fill the hole that SWG players were looking for.

[WarpVis]

Short answer; YES.

[AloneMordakai]

Likewise I was surprised the ip holders didn't push for mmorpg's sooner.

I agree but I have to say that I'm glad it didn't happen before now. One, in pure selfishness, I didn't get into MMO gaming until about 2 years ago so it may have ended up before my time. Two- seeing what Cryptic had done so far (PAX vids), I'm really happy another company didn't handle it. Cryptic seems to be doing a great job (from what I've seen). If this had come out 4 or more years ago, it may have been a great and fun game, but I'm glad I'm here to see the current generation graphics and physics engines etc....

[lajkalove]

if STO will succeed oh yes there are many ST fans around the world its just about forsing them to buy the game hehe :D

[onesoul1982]

the short version: YES :D

[J.L.Picard]

i know ground combat will be awsome for the simple fact that the miniscule portion that you saw in the demo was actually good. A tendancy that alot of people have gotten into is that anything to has not been re-invented is automatically rubbish, but that is ignorance (99% of reviewers at gamespot.com are retards who know NOTHING about games) when cryptic do a demo which allows people to try out the carious kits and do some 5 captain ground action they will change their minds very fast.

space combat is astonishing.

this game will kill EvE regardless ( by kill i mean bring population below 50k) Although i will be getting SWTOR it will get boring very fast because its just more WoW revamped.

I can't wait to get on my Sovereign and rid the Galaxy of the stench that is the Klingon Empire once and for all, Kirk had the right attitude let the rodents die they weren'tworth saving.

[Rivaris]

i know ground combat will be awsome for the simple fact that the miniscule portion that you saw in the demo was actually good. A tendancy that alot of people have gotten into is that anything to has not been re-invented is automatically rubbish, but that is ignorance (99% of reviewers at gamespot.com are retards who know NOTHING about games) when cryptic do a demo which allows people to try out the carious kits and do some 5 captain ground action they will change their minds very fast.

space combat is astonishing.

this game will kill EvE regardless ( by kill i mean bring population below 50k) Although i will be getting SWTOR it will get boring very fast because its just more WoW revamped.

I can't wait to get on my Sovereign and rid the Galaxy of the stench that is the Klingon Empire once and for all, Kirk had the right attitude let the rodents die they weren'tworth saving.

here here!

ps see you in space that sov will hang nice above my fireplace when the kdf blows it to spacedust :cool:

[J.L.Picard]

[QUOTE=Rivaris;757760]here here!

ps see you in space that sov will hang nice above my fireplace when the kdf blows it to spacedust :cool:[/QUOmy friend in the time it takes for you to decloak (honorable I THINK NOT COWARDS!) I will have your crews carcases sprawned across my ships hull tip to tip, sovie is about 700meter long if i remember so make sure you bring about 450 crew member (ill be positioning then shoulder to shoulder LOL):D:D

[Rivaris]

[QUOTE=Rivaris;757760]here here!

ps see you in space that sov will hang nice above my fireplace when the kdf blows it to spacedust :cool:[/QUOmy friend in the time it takes for you to decloak (honorable I THINK NOT COWARDS!) I will have your crews carcases sprawned across my ships hull tip to tip, sovie is about 700meter long if i remember so make sure you bring about 450 crew member (ill be positioning then shoulder to shoulder LOL):D:D

only 700 i see your 700 and raise you 1,272.

dont need to decloak if i ram your sov it will either break like a twig or we both go down and have a bloodwhine while we enjoy the explosion :p

[J.L.Picard]

first one to Sto'vokor is a rotten egg haha

[fractaleye]

I'm hearing this in my head atm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbpX0r1995U

:D

[Rivaris]

on the side note

on the download sites that sell CO steam and direct CO is number 1 on the charts :)
ofc we got no sale numbers but if CO is selling that well in the first week STO should go gold in the first week :)

[J.L.Picard]

lol never watched that movie

side side note thats how i got my CO used D2D but for STO will be Collectors edition like all my WoW stuff

[SOTH007]

Well I'm not a big Trek fan - I've seen a handful of episodes and a couple of the movies (Loved the most recent movie though, the ones before that so-so for me) that friends have dragged me to. I know what a romulan is (really wanted to play as a Romulan actually - boo that they picked klingon instead of Romulan as the opposing faction) , but a lot of the stuff that gets talked about on these forums sound like another language to me.

Speaking as a non-trek fan I had never so much as looked at the Trek web page until I got the 6 month subscription for champions online (which I've been enjoying a lot, but appears to have very little end game content yet) But seeing as I was getting a beta slot, i decided to check the game out to see if it was worth bothering with the beta.

After watching a bunch of videos, I'm sold on STO. It has gone up to my #1 most anticipated game. The space combat, and especially the innovative gameplay (you control a whole team of officers/pets that you customize - sounds great) are what interest me. I'm pretty sick of all the MMOs on the market these days that are just trying to clone WoW in an effort to get a small fraction of the success WoW has had. Even TOR - while it looks interesting enough, feels like KTOR #4... and I've already played that game 3 times. In the last one I was already feeling like that game had been played out for me.

If the game is as good as it looks, I am sure it will attract a lot of gamers who are not necessarily big trek fans.

[fractaleye]

<awesomesauce>

This post makes me very hopeful for ST:O. (I edited out your post for the sake of space, but I think everyone should read it tbh) They have plans to add Romulans as playable in the future (all unconfirmed of course, but fingers crossed!), so there's hope for you. I grew up on Star Trek (too young for the airing of the original series, but have seen them. I'm a big TNG fan, but even bigger Voyager fan), so it's heartening to see someone who didn't have such positive things to say about ST:O. I look forward to seeing you out there... somewhere.... :)

[Bigwig]

I think STO will do very well as a niche MMORPG. By very well i mean a steady average of around 300-400K subs within the first 3-6 months. I know they are trying to target a much wider audience than just trek fans, which maybe they will manage in the first few months of the initial release. But i believe it will be Trekkies who keep the game live and kicking at a steady pace for years to come.

STO has so much potential and while it might not be 'the' trek experience upon release, it'll only get better with time. I foresee Cryptic adding some really nice post-release content, like the interiors that everyone wants. So yeah, STO will succeed, just not on the scale of Everquest, pre-cu Star Wars Galaxies or World of Warcraft. More like EvE, City of Heroes and LOTRO kinda success which i think Cryptic and the fans would be more than happy with.

[Thibor]

I know STO will get players, but the question is - how MANY players/subscribers?!

*shrug* Absolutely zero way of telling. If you'd been at Blizzard HQ Nov 1st, 2004 and asked them to honestly tell you how well they honestly thought their game would sell when it came out three weeks later, their honest reply, let alone proably their wildest dreams, wouldn't come close to today's reality for WoW.

But that's the anomaly in the genre.

But, likewise, if you'd have asked Turbne how long they thought Asheron's Call 2 would stay open, or the makers of Tabula Rasa how long they'd be up and running, I'm sure their guesses wouldn't have been closed servers by now either.

*shrug* it's a fickle market. Granted there's a built in fan base for the IP but there's not telling how much of that fanbase is computer gamers, let alone MMO players.

Time will tell but any predictions really have little to base it on because actual box sales vs. 3mo subs vs. 1 yr subs is so varied in this genre.

[sandman105]

I believe STO will be very successfull! Considering the many Star Trek fans out there, and the people who like to play mmo's, i believe this game will have a long life. When this game comes out, im uninstalling wow, eq, and guild wars and making this game my one and only MMO!! STO offers imho, a very promising and enjoyable play expierence that differs in many good ways from said mmo's listed above. Even though we have only seen space and ground combat demonstrations, i have faith that the rest of the game has just as much interesting qualities that will keep players interested, and attract people to the mmo expierence that has never played this type of game!

[rporter]

I forsee STO becoming so popular, it replaces WoW as the media's whipping boy for "internet gaming addiction".
I mean, every MMO up until now has put you in charge of only one character, unless you ran a guild...but even then you weren't really in control.

An entire crew of redshirts and a crack team of bridge officers that you get to customize and equip???!!

It'll be bigger than Pokemon.

[cdavenport4]

I've been waiting 10+ years for a Star Trek MMORPG so I want it to succeed but I've seen over the last year so much disinterest in Star Trek it's sometimes disheartening. I want to know if other people have had different experiences - for me, whenever I bring up STO I get told (for the most part) "I don't like Star Trek, but, hey, there's going to be a Star Wars MMORPG coming out!!!!!!" which always depresses me. I know STO will get players, but the question is - how MANY players/subscribers?

From what I can tell those who went to Pax were thrilled at the space combat and not so much at the ground combat, but the space combat looks so good I'm trying to figure out how people could NOT be interested, but even with that I've gotten some "yeah it looks ok" replies rathern then "OMG that was AWESOME!!!!"

So what do you think? Have you had different reactions then I've been experiencing? I really want to hear positive responses because the anti-Star Trek/pro-Star Wars things I keep running into really bother me!

I've also been waiting for close to 10 years as well. I'm so, looking forward to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avatar_of_Champions]

I forsee STO becoming so popular, it replaces WoW as the media's whipping boy for "internet gaming addiction".
I mean, every MMO up until now has put you in charge of only one character, unless you ran a guild...but even then you weren't really in control.

An entire crew of redshirts and a crack team of bridge officers that you get to customize and equip???!!

It'll be bigger than Pokemon.

Actually Atlantica (http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com/center/default.asp) lets you control more than one character, complete control of up to 9 of them in combat and a ton more in your 'base'.

Actually your almost making me miss that game... almost....

[planetwide]

According to imdb.com the last Star Trek movie is at number 47 (yeah I have been watching it rise up the whole time hehe) of all time in ticket sales domestic (U.S.) and 122 of all time worldwide. That should spark some interest in the game.

The beginning of the game will have massive subscriptions and then it will drop off somewhat when the new thing junkies go play something else. At this point the naysayers will pull their hair and rip their clothes as they profess STO's doom. Meanwhile the loyal player base will continue playing and snickering.

This is how most of the MMO's I have played went, with the notable exception of Eve. They seem to more like the Borg. Back when I played they were happy with a few thousand on at the same time. I took a few weeks off of AoC to play Eve (I needed my space ship fix) and theres something like 20K or 30K on.

Resistance is futile! Hopefully STO will be like that.

[fractaleye]

According to imdb.com the last Star Trek movie is at number 47 (yeah I have been watching it rise up the whole time hehe) of all time in ticket sales domestic (U.S.) and 122 of all time worldwide. That should spark some interest in the game.

The beginning of the game will have massive subscriptions and then it will drop off somewhat when the new thing junkies go play something else. At this point the naysayers will pull their hair and rip their clothes as they profess STO's doom. Meanwhile the loyal player base will continue playing and snickering.

This is how most of the MMO's I have played went, with the notable exception of Eve. They seem to more like the Borg. Back when I played they were happy with a few thousand on at the same time. I took a few weeks off of AoC to play Eve (I needed my space ship fix) and theres something like 20K or 30K on.

Resistance is futile! Hopefully STO will be like that.

Very good post imo. I haven't played any MMO other than Eve (well, Guild Wars for about a week or two, but quit because it just wasn't interesting to me). You're right about Eve though; I normally see about 20k players on at the 'low points' and sometimes high 40s to almost 50k at a time. If STO can maintain those numbers (or higher), I'm sure it will be fine. I welcome my new STO overlords. :)

[Saerain]

alot of swtor's hype comes from the old disgruntled anti soe gang. I probably spend a roughly equal amount of time on these fora and the TOR fora, and I have to say it definitely seems like the SWG refugees are the ones least hyped about it. They have no more delusions about TOR being a sandbox than we here following STO do.

According to imdb.com the last Star Trek movie is at number 47 That's too appropriate to be true. Madness.

[Aq3nt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

will then you guys better make this MMO Worldwide :D

watched Trekkies and Trekkies 2 or Star Trek Adventure??? lol^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZDvU-viV4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQg7OvpTvPw&feature=related

[ussawsomeness]

I think it will succeed as much as a video game based off a franchise can.

[mendal]

The game appeals to ST fans.
Devs have great work ethics in Cryptic according to their own description of work process.
Cryptic is an experienced MMO developer.
We get a lot of feedback and our feedback is heard and taken into account.
People are generally satisfied/thrilled with beta trial.
There are tens of thousands if not more than 100 000 registered users on this forum.
All of this before marketing really kicks in.

We can expect 1 million users minimum to subscribe to ST:cool:.
I expect up to 5 million subscribers in six month after launch.:)
##going to sleep

[Night_Hawke]

The game appeals to ST fans.
Devs have great work ethics in Cryptic according to their own description of work process.
Cryptic is an experienced MMO developer.
We get a lot of feedback and our feedback is heard and taken into account.
People are generally satisfied/thrilled with beta trial.
There are tens of thousands if not more than 100 000 registered users on this forum.
All of this before marketing really kicks in.

We can expect 1 million users minimum to subscribe to ST:cool:.
I expect up to 5 million subscribers in six month after launch.:)
##going to sleep

their are people with beta trials?

i think your sub predictions are a wee bit high. i would guess 300k-500k at launch (like AoC and WAR) maybe a mill after maybe less greatly depends on the quality of game in OB and launch day problems/complications.

[mendal]

their are people with beta trials?

i think your sub predictions are a wee bit high. i would guess 300k-500k at launch (like AoC and WAR) maybe a mill after maybe less greatly depends on the quality of game in OB and launch day problems/complications.

I meant pax trials. My bad.

[Loekii]

It really depends upon the definition of Succeed.

Will it be a 'WoW Killer'? No.

Will it have +500k resubs? Doubt it.

Will it have +300k resubs? Maybe.

Will it have atleast +100k resubs? Yes.

[Foss]

We can expect 1 million users minimum to subscribe to ST:cool:.
I expect up to 5 million subscribers in six month after launch

its not WOW and SWG, u can dream lol

[warbot7777]

I like the look of the space combat, but I feel that from what we've seen of the ground combat, it needs a bit of a change. Everyone should be trying to take cover behind rocks or anything they can. In the shows being hit with a phaser blast will at least get you to sickbay.

[Night_Hawke]

I like the look of the space combat, but I feel that from what we've seen of the ground combat, it needs a bit of a change. Everyone should be trying to take cover behind rocks or anything they can. In the shows being hit with a phaser blast will at least get you to sickbay.

it's been 30-40 years from the last show/movie. They have personal Shields now, no more ducking and hiding right away.

[Bigwig]

I like the look of the space combat, but I feel that from what we've seen of the ground combat, it needs a bit of a change. Everyone should be trying to take cover behind rocks or anything they can. In the shows being hit with a phaser blast will at least get you to sickbay.

Wait till you see the Klingon ground combat... It'll be like whoever dies first in the name of the Empire wins a prize! No doubt... :D

[Night_Hawke]

Wait till you see the Klingon ground combat... It'll be like whoever dies first in the name of the Empire wins a prize! No doubt... :D

OHH!! shiny!

[ExpendableCrewman]

STO will succeed just as well as any of cryptics other mmos, when it first comes out it will have MANY subscribers, and cryptic <wisely so> plans on selling MANY lifetime subs immedialtey after release cuz once the "Hey! Its Star Trek!" hype wears off MANY people will stop playing. HOWEVER.... MANY other people will still play it cuz A its an mmo, B it IS star trek, and C some first timers will be hooked on it cuz it will be there there only mmo experience. All in all it will succeed ENOUGH, enough to keep it paid to keep it played most likely, I wouldnt worry too much about it failing IMHO it will not.

[Loekii]

I do not expect STO to fair any better than other MMOs out there.

At least from what we have seen, it looks pretty solid. Now its just about making sure that the content is there and the gameplay doesn't become stale. AoC and WaR are examples of how good looking games can still hit the rocks because of poor content planning.

[Dr._Sskarno]

Actually I've talked to a few diehard Trek fans and they seemed to not really care about STO. Not because of the game itself but because they dont play computer games. Assuming that Trek fans are all computer gamers would be a mistake. But to answer the thread, I think STO will do well IF the non-combat parts of the game are fun and feel like Trek. People expect combat in a MMO so that is a given. What sets a MMO apart from the competition is how good the "other" parts are.

[gair22]

Star Trek has a huge fan base. As long as the game continues momentum and doesn't lose the interest of its fan base, then it will be successful.

[Trekkie]

I do think that Star Trek Online will succeed, but I am being realistic when I say I don't think that it is going to have a huge edge over many of the other massively multiplayer online games out there. Of course being attached to such a successful franchise will help the game tremendously (especially because the most recent movie was practically universally well-received by the general public from what I can tell), but online gaming is still a niche market so it will take a really good game to keep people subscribed to the game and still playing after awhile. Regardless, everything that has been released about the game so far makes me believe that the game is in great hands (despite what others may say) so I do think that Star Trek Online will be successful in the long run -- it is just a question of whether it will be more successful with fans of massively multiplayer online games or fans of the franchise.

[warbot7777]

I forgot to add that Yes. I do think it will succeed, and I can't wait to play it.

[Loekii]

Actually I've talked to a few diehard Trek fans and they seemed to not really care about STO. Not because of the game itself but because they dont play computer games. Assuming that Trek fans are all computer gamers would be a mistake. But to answer the thread, I think STO will do well IF the non-combat parts of the game are fun and feel like Trek. People expect combat in a MMO so that is a given. What sets a MMO apart from the competition is how good the "other" parts are.

I recall seeing posts in earlier threads, stating the same thing -- Trekkies are not all gamers, so not all Trekkies are going to be STO customers.

Again, STO is a video game first, and a Star Trek thing second.

It is sort of like how not all Trekkies read all the novels, specifically those that simply do not read novels. The Trekkie market is very diverse, and what appeals to some, does not appeal to others.

[blujester]

Ok ...I'm not gonna read all through this thread and maybe this has been said. But.

There are over 10 million die hard trek fans out there. Not all are gamers, not all will tolerate the direction of the game or the choices they are offered. But If 100K subscribe, the game will be a success, period. It does not take WoW numbers to sustain a game. It takes a core of people and around 100K subs to make a profit and pay for continued development. Trek will bring that for a year regaurdless. After that you have the Matrix online problem. If the game sucks ballsimic viniger then you got a problem. Cryptic didn't make Matrix...they did see it...they won't do that.


Bj

[Vuk]

I recall seeing posts in earlier threads, stating the same thing -- Trekkies are not all gamers, so not all Trekkies are going to be STO customers.

Again, STO is a video game first, and a Star Trek thing second.

It is sort of like how not all Trekkies read all the novels, specifically those that simply do not read novels. The Trekkie market is very diverse, and what appeals to some, does not appeal to others.


It really depends how you define Trekkie, firstly . That's irrelavent either way . This is a computer game firstly . Second it's an MMO , which means it'll adhere to certain industry norms . Thirdly the engine is not big on Wow factor . It primarily has to preform on a variety of machines , and they had hoped and planned to have it console compatible. It's limited in this capacity. Fourthly and most importantly it will success is based on how the company presents the game and the audience it's advertising to views the game , and how the public develops it's expectations on the provided information.

That being said there are people no matter what information you present and format that info , people are going to have unrealistic expectation , simply based on ignorance or shear refusal to base opinions on facts. It is those people that are the ones that scream , "Fail" or "We were lied too". The failure to understand information and have realistic expectations is the biggest hurdles for Devs. It is also the Devs responsiblity not to be misleading and claim more than they can produce. This in the past , present and future can always be an issue.

Failure or success ultimately is a presonnal decision . The company decides this on the basis of finanical results . Trekkies are not the main target and ultimately the PC gamers are . People will be drawn on the basis of brand familarity, some will be drawn more so than others. If enough people like the game and the company decides it's a financial success , that's all that really matters , regardless of others decision.
( disclaimer , I just used loekii's quote as a point of reference.)

[majicebe]

I feel the Star Trek (and Star Wars for that matter) license are as close to a 'safe-bet' as you're gonna get to be a hit as an MMO. The fan base is already there, and it's huge. You don't have 5 (4 successful) TV series spanning 40+ years and 11 movies without having a fanbase. I would bet that most Trekkers are probably also into technology and probably at least have a computer that could handle the game. I would even say a huge chunk of those people play computer games. So unlike most games with original IP's that come out, STO already has half the work done -- grabbing an audience. The only thing they have to follow through with is making the game fun, or at least appearing to be fun enough to get the audience to try it. Once they try it, Cryptic just has to have done a good enough job in making sure there is enough fun content, and BAM! they've already got a hit.

Even if it's a bad game, and I have no reason to think it's going to be, I'm going to at least buy it and give it a try. Heck, I'll likely buy the Collector's Edition (if there is one) and the lifetime sub (if there is one) before I even play it. Maybe I'm crazy, but then again, I think most of the people posting on here are probably of similar attitude.

[majicebe]

I like the look of the space combat, but I feel that from what we've seen of the ground combat, it needs a bit of a change. Everyone should be trying to take cover behind rocks or anything they can. In the shows being hit with a phaser blast will at least get you to sickbay.

Where have you all seen the ground combat? I've seen maybe 30 seconds of ground combat that was recorded off of a monitor a few feet away from the camera at an angle. If you've seen the ground combat in a better view than I have, please post a link :)

From the very little bit that I've seen, it looks like a lot of fun. It looks like WoW-type combat, which can only be a good thing, imo. If they copy the WoW combat formula, I think it's got a good shot at being some competition.

[cipher_nemo]

I feel the Star Trek (and Star Wars for that matter) license are as close to a 'safe-bet' as you're gonna get to be a hit as an MMO. (...) The fan base is already there, and it's huge.

I agree. It's right up there with Star Wars, though SWTOR seems to appeal to MMO fans a little more than STO. But that's fine. I'd rather see more Trekkies play STO than MMO people. ;)

Even if it's a bad game, and I have no reason to think it's going to be, I'm going to at least buy it and give it a try. Heck, I'll likely buy the Collector's Edition (if there is one) and the lifetime sub (if there is one) before I even play it. Maybe I'm crazy, but then again, I think most of the people posting on here are probably of similar attitude.

You're not crazy. :) I would do the same.

And I've seen then gameplay videos so far. I'm very impressed with ship to ship combat, let alone exploring a planet and fighting on the ground looks reasonable. Even as it stands, it looks to be fun with a decent amount of canon. I don't care too much about exact canon, so long as the Star Trek feel is there. And from Klingons to Andorians, I think they have that feel so far.

[Sukhanh]

Im already tempting all my co-workers with SO. I can feel it "SO" will be the Next WOW. LOL

[DavidPatterson]

I wouldn't worry about how many people join at first if the game is as good as it looks then word of mouth and some good adverts and a catching price gamers will flock in trek fans or not!!

[G0thfather]

What has to be understood is that most people got tired of bad TV that paramount was producing. They got sloppy and many of the actors of the franchise said diplomaticly that they needed a "rest." People slowly got put off star trek because to quality of the shows went down hill. Sure some die hard fans would argue otherwise but MOST people were not impressed with the voyager and enterprise series and star trek nemises was not recieved well either. So is it really surprising that the idea of a Star trek MMO is not viewed with as much excietment? I don't think so.

However with the recent movie this year and the positive reception to it I think you are seeing a renewal of intrest in the star trek universe. I think had the movie been terrible then this MMO may have had a more difficult time but it was not so I think you will see a renewed intrest and a stronger showing for this mmo.

Lots have people have been poo pooing SWTOR as a wow clone or not having staying power, but really its bunk the reasons given for it not doing well are just expresions of individuals preferences in the MMO market. Some people will prefer SWTOR's style other will not, but this is true of ALL MMO's. As for WoW clones that term is used all the time and honestly it has no meaning as its used by people who haven't played the game at all so how could be objectively and honestly evaluate a product and make a comparison to wow?

SWTOR and STO are different games not only are they different games but the IPs are very different from each other so a game designed to fit them SHOULD be different. This means some people will prefer SWTOR over STO and vise versa. It is not a refelection which game is better or worse only which game an individual PREFERS.

[DarkShrike]

I feel the Star Trek (and Star Wars for that matter) license are as close to a 'safe-bet' as you're gonna get to be a hit as an MMO. The fan base is already there, and it's huge. You don't have 5 (4 successful) TV series spanning 40+ years and 11 movies without having a fanbase. I would bet that most Trekkers are probably also into technology and probably at least have a computer that could handle the game. I would even say a huge chunk of those people play computer games. So unlike most games with original IP's that come out, STO already has half the work done -- grabbing an audience. The only thing they have to follow through with is making the game fun, or at least appearing to be fun enough to get the audience to try it. Once they try it, Cryptic just has to have done a good enough job in making sure there is enough fun content, and BAM! they've already got a hit.

Even if it's a bad game, and I have no reason to think it's going to be, I'm going to at least buy it and give it a try. Heck, I'll likely buy the Collector's Edition (if there is one) and the lifetime sub (if there is one) before I even play it. Maybe I'm crazy, but then again, I think most of the people posting on here are probably of similar attitude.

Don't forget that there is also a group of potential gamers out there looking for a good Science Fiction MMo. It isn't just ST fans that will be drawn to this.

If this game does well (and I sure hope it exceeds that) then it could very well do wow good. Mind you not WoW good since that took years to build up a subscription base that big but still "wow there are a lot of people playing this" good. I suspect the numbers could quite easily outdo CO or the City of franchise.

[cipher_nemo]

What has to be understood is that most people got tired of bad TV that paramount was producing. They got sloppy and many of the actors of the franchise said diplomaticly that they needed a "rest." People slowly got put off star trek because to quality of the shows went down hill. Sure some die hard fans would argue otherwise but MOST people were not impressed with the voyager and enterprise series and star trek nemises was not recieved well either.

Speak for yourself, please.

Claiming that "most people" were not impressed with Voyager isn't correct, nor is it anywhere near truth.

[Drexxus3d]

Speak for yourself, please.

Claiming that "most people" were not impressed with Voyager isn't correct, nor is it anywhere near truth.

Most people like puddings, pies, or cakes. Care to disagree Good Sir ?! :p

Also for the record, I loved Voyager. It was loads of fun and had some decent special effects unlike the other series that I almost cringe during certain scenes.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Speak for yourself, please.

Claiming that "most people" were not impressed with Voyager isn't correct, nor is it anywhere near truth.

Maybe, but there sure seems to be a lot of Voyager hate here on this forum, and I haven't seen many people that liked Voyager. IMO Voyager was the worst series. I even liked STE better, except for Archer.

[DarkShrike]

Most people like puddings, pies, or cakes. Care to disagree Good Sir ?! :p

Also for the record, I loved Voyager. It was loads of fun and had some decent special effects unlike the other series that I almost cringe during certain scenes.

I dont know that I ever 'loved' Voyager but I certainly did follow it for the entire series. Special effects were great and there were some incredible stories - and some highly enjoyable campy ones too (Captain Proton anyone?).

Captain Janeway was a large part of the reason it took me a while to warm up to the series. She was definitely her own captain. I used to refer to her as "Ready,Fire,Hail" Janeway since that seemed to be her own special greeting sequence.

[WarpVis]

Voyager had some good episodes but its main problem was that the chosen scenario for the series far too often resulted in the Gilligan Effect. Too many episodes opened with a chance to go home only to have those hopes dashed by the end.

[cipher_nemo]

Too many episodes opened with a chance to go home only to have those hopes dashed by the end.

That is quite true. Too many episodes ended with a chance wasted due to the prime directive or due to ethics.

LOL. Stranded in the Delta Quadrant, I think I would have jumped on a couple of those chances (while some were indeed a little too far).

I enjoyed Voyager as much as I enjoyed TNG. I'm not a "hardcore fan", nor a trekkie. I'm just a fan who enjoyed watching Star Trek (and hopefully enjoy playing STO).

I've seen criticism come from Trekkies and hardcore fans more than I've seen it come from casual fans. But that's just my personal experience and it's too small of a sampling to hold any serious truth.

As for claiming more people liked or didn't like this or that, the statement is just a fallacy since there is nothing to prove/disprove it.