AI Crew Only?

[BrokenC]

STO seems to make it apparent that EVERY player will be in command of their own vessel. What about your crew? I've never been a fan of AI assistance, even written by the best it never act's of it;s own accord in the way that you would expect a human player to. My question to Cryptic Studio staff is this, is being the captain ESSENTIAL or can you join someone else's ship as a crewman (bridge Crew, Security Chief etc...)

Working together as a fleet will make this a brilliant game, but i think that working with real people on-board a single ship will throw this game into a whole new level.


BrokenC

[Vampir888]

You will be Captain of your own ship and will not be able to join someone else as crewman. If you want to know more use the search function of the forum.

[Rivaris]

STO seems to make it apparent that EVERY player will be in command of their own vessel. What about your crew? I've never been a fan of AI assistance, even written by the best it never act's of it;s own accord in the way that you would expect a human player to. My question to Cryptic Studio staff is this, is being the captain ESSENTIAL or can you join someone else's ship as a crewman (bridge Crew, Security Chief etc...)

Working together as a fleet will make this a brilliant game, but i think that working with real people on-board a single ship will throw this game into a whole new level.


BrokenC

there are about 35 topics about this use the searchbutton!

yeah it would be a whole new level with player crews they call it EPIC FAIL.

[CrazyVulcan]

STO seems to make it apparent that EVERY player will be in command of their own vessel. What about your crew? I've never been a fan of AI assistance, even written by the best it never act's of it;s own accord in the way that you would expect a human player to. My question to Cryptic Studio staff is this, is being the captain ESSENTIAL or can you join someone else's ship as a crewman (bridge Crew, Security Chief etc...)

Working together as a fleet will make this a brilliant game, but i think that working with real people on-board a single ship will throw this game into a whole new level.


BrokenC

The simple resion why cryptic dose not want player crew ships (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=25291&highlight=for+the+last+time)

[Acyl]

Working together as a fleet will make this a brilliant game, but i think that working with real people on-board a single ship will throw this game into a whole new level.

Sorry if folks seem to be coming down harsh on you, but this is a very frequently asked question. Or suggestion. Whatever.

A lot of people do want the ability to team up on their own ship. Hell, the devs get asked about it all the time when they give interviews - obviously it's something most game reporters want to know too.

But this is a very messy debate. It's gone back and forth to death around here. A lot of people are of the opinion that trying to split ship functions among different players would be an utter disaster. Say you're taking fire, and you need more power to shields NOW - but your Engineer is AFK. Or say you need to save your photon torpedo fire for when it really counts...but the guy you picked up to play Tactical is a trigger-happy maniac who ain't listening to the group.

In the end, though - consider this. The game's heading into beta. It's gotta be mostly done by this point. I mean, yeah, they got a lot of work to do, a lot of details to finish, stuff to adjust and add in. But in general they have a combat system and game balance already complete.

The game is balanced around every player commanding their own starship. There is no provision for folks to team up on a starship. Even if they WANTED to add it, it's not practical at this late stage. It'd throw stuff completely out of whack. They'd have to make new code, new interface elements. They'd have to rebalance combat.

They can't do all that and still get this title out the door by 2010.

[Pyrceval]

The simple resion why cryptic dose not want player crew ships (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=25291&highlight=for+the+last+time)

Haha...missed that before...nice

[Sythian]

I pretty much want an crew that doesn't just do want they want to on a whilm. So, NPC crew for me thx.

[onesoul1982]

I pretty much want an crew that doesn't just do want they want to on a whilm. So, NPC crew for me thx.

same here, i agree =)

[Tamgros]

The OP doesn't have to worry at all if it's AI that he's worried about. When you are controlling your ship, you are in complete control.

If you don't want AI controlled NPC BOs to come with you to the surface, just get 4 other players to join you. This will be easy in STO because you don't have to be the same level and can join people at any time!

So, in space you'll be a fleet working together, and on the ground you'll be a group of 5 players, no AI needed :)

[Vorgse]

The OP doesn't have to worry at all if it's AI that he's worried about. When you are controlling your ship, you are in complete control.

If you don't want AI controlled NPC BOs to come with you to the surface, just get 4 other players to join you. This will be easy in STO because you don't have to be the same level and can join people at any time!

So, in space you'll be a fleet working together, and on the ground you'll be a group of 5 players, no AI needed :)

+1

I think this is more of what the OP was asking.

[raynetsw]

I'm new here, although have been following STO from the sidelines since it came to the surface. I can immediately see the major floor in a human crew... middle off a battle, it's getting heated and you Tactical officers internet connection resets....

Major D'oh

[Avatar_of_Champions]

Pretty much what everyone else just said...

The community is split (about 65/35) about Player crews, but Cryptic is having none of it. And they are right (in my opinion)

Respected members of the community have even left after they realized there was no possibilty of getting player crews (Jenshae comes to mind).

While you can have other players on away missions you cannot have player crews for reasons that have already been explained.

Some of my reasons for not wanting player crews (at least not at the beginning of the game). Player captains treating the crew like slightly smarter AI's... and the fact that some 14 year old with delusions of grandeur could be your captain and there is nothing you can do about it (but leave ship... trying to find a crew if your a captain, because everyone wants to be a camptain.... trying to get a crew of the type you need. having to look in LFG for ultra rare medics and engineers... etc.... etc...

And I am sorry if the community has come down a little hard, this question is asked all the time, and is one of the fist things answered in the FAQ at the top of the page.

[Vorgse]

Pretty much what everyone else just said...

The community is split (about 65/35) about Player crews, but Cryptic is having none of it. And they are right (in my opinion)

Respected members of the community have even left after they realized there was no possibilty of getting player crews (Jenshae comes to mind).

While you can have other players on away missions you cannot have player crews for reasons that have already been explained.

Some of my reasons for not wanting player crews (at least not at the beginning of the game). Player captains treating the crew like slightly smarter AI's... and the fact that some 14 year old with delusions of grandeur could be your captain and there is nothing you can do about it (but leave ship... trying to find a crew if your a captain, because everyone wants to be a camptain.... trying to get a crew of the type you need. having to look in LFG for ultra rare medics and engineers... etc.... etc...

And I am sorry if the community has come down a little hard, this question is asked all the time, and is one of the fist things answered in the FAQ at the top of the page.

I can atest to this!

There is a Star Trek-like mission simulator near where I live and this is common. Everybody wants to be captain but some are not quite cut out for it. Leadership is not easy, you can't ignore crew members or "just do it yourself." The issue is that it's hard enough to run a simulated ship in real-time with people you know, who understand their jobs. Now think how this would work with a full crew of people who wanted your job.

Want to be part of a crew? Join a fleet and be a buff/debuff.

[RE-Kirk]

In another post the devs pretty much said that the "bridge officers" will be npc background bots with a standard list of things to say when certain events occur. Otherwise, some of your crew will be involved in pre-written mission content actions and dialog

Probably the only crew AI will be the combat AI, and i doubt it will be all that bright being red-shirts and all

I am a pro-player crew person, and yes i have read the "helmsman off-line argument"
It could have been made to work - npcs is easier, faster, and leads to a quicker return on investment

[Vorgse]

My argument against player crews is, other than on an away mission, why would you want to have to tell a crewmember to do something, when you could just do it yourself as soon as you thought of it?

Who would want to just sit around as captain and give orders to player crew members?

[RE-Kirk]

My argument against player crews is, other than on an away mission, why would you want to have to tell a crewmember to do something, when you could just do it yourself as soon as you thought of it?

Who would want to just sit around as captain and give orders to player crew members?

I wouldn't want that level of micromanagement either

The focus against PC crews is ship to ship combat oriented

Star Trek is about more than ship combat, i feel that you would have a fuller emmersive experience with some player crew members

Want your crew to follow orders, do it like they would do on the series... the Captain controls your career, XP, Reputation, Access to Ship Resources can all be based on whether or not you follow orders

BUT - i'm not getting that without starting my own company and buying the franchise away from Cryptic (ain't gonna happen in my lifetime), so i am awaiting the demo to see what Cryptic has done with it

[Conman]

PC really belong on the ground together i support the cryptics choices.

[Avatar_of_Champions]

I wouldn't want that level of micromanagement either

The focus against PC crews is ship to ship combat oriented

Star Trek is about more than ship combat, i feel that you would have a fuller emmersive experience with some player crew members

Want your crew to follow orders, do it like they would do on the series... the Captain controls your career, XP, Reputation, Access to Ship Resources can all be based on whether or not you follow orders

BUT - i'm not getting that without starting my own company and buying the franchise away from Cryptic (ain't gonna happen in my lifetime), so i am awaiting the demo to see what Cryptic has done with it

And that's a LOT of power to give to one guy/girl.




"Hm... I dont like the look of Ensign Dogfaces character, and Lietenant McHottie McSultry with the sexy voice on vent wont cyber with me... No XP for them or resources for them"




And how do you as Cryptic decide who gets to be the captain or not? Because players would fight for hours over it. Is it merely the player with the most lvls? Because that will always be some powergamer with no job or a trust fund who can play a LOT longer than most people on a daily basis.

And who gets to have a ship and who does not? And why would you NOT want to be a captain if you had the kind of power. Who gets to decide on what upgrade the ships get? Or what type of ship will be used on the mission?


There are a lot of questions with your system, and almost every single one of them requires everyone to be mature, reasonable and have the abilty to play the game for long periods without being interupted, and play the game on a regular basis (as in every day at a regular time).
We still have people arguing over why people would get upset with a name like the USS Carebear, do you think you would be able to get pugs on a regular basis of 'mature players?". Thats the only way your system would work.

[rporter]

The simple resion why cryptic dose not want player crew ships (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=25291&highlight=for+the+last+time)

This is all the answer that is required.

[Flatfingers]

Working together as a fleet will make this a brilliant game, but i think that working with real people on-board a single ship will throw this game into a whole new level.

I agree. I'm one of those who've felt strongly that it's worth the development cost to allow those gamers who want to play together in specific roles on one ship to do so. Some people don't see the value in that feature, and you've heard from them, but there are also plenty of folks who share your interest in a player crew feature.

I happen to think that would be a highly appropriate feature for a MMORPG based on Star Trek, and one that would pay back its implementation costs. There's nothing wrong with making a combat-focused arcade game, but that doesn't seem to me to be the most effective use of the unique character-driven Star Trek IP in which The Ship was virtually a starring character.

However, the designers of STO chose not to make that game. We may disagree with that choice, but it's done. At this point, on this issue, all we can do now is wait for the game to come out, try it, and vote with our wallet on whether or not it's a game we think is worth playing.

In the meantime, there still seem to be plenty of subjects that Cryptic's Marketing overlords won't allow them to discuss with us. So non-combat features like exploration and crafting and the economy are all still fair game for discussion. :)

(But it really would be a good idea for you to read the FAQ and the Everything we know about STO (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=14535) thread....)

Welcome to the forum!

--Flatfingers

[Vorgse]

I wouldn't want that level of micromanagement either

The focus against PC crews is ship to ship combat oriented

Star Trek is about more than ship combat, i feel that you would have a fuller emmersive experience with some player crew members

Want your crew to follow orders, do it like they would do on the series... the Captain controls your career, XP, Reputation, Access to Ship Resources can all be based on whether or not you follow orders

BUT - i'm not getting that without starting my own company and buying the franchise away from Cryptic (ain't gonna happen in my lifetime), so i am awaiting the demo to see what Cryptic has done with it

Yeah, in the Star Trek universe being the whole Utopian society that would work. But here on earth people are irresponsible, petty, immature, etc. Captains would hold that kind of power over you constantly. Honestly, like I've said, I think everyone who wants player crews assumes they'd be captains and they'd have these player character pets to do what they say. But each ship has between 5-7 BOs that means the odds are 83-88% of the time YOU will be the guy clicking the "SCAN" button, or typing out hails. Who do you think would honestly pay $50 plus $15 a month to do any of that?

[deilin]

Sorry if folks seem to be coming down harsh on you, but this is a very frequently asked question. Or suggestion. Whatever.

A lot of people do want the ability to team up on their own ship. Hell, the devs get asked about it all the time when they give interviews - obviously it's something most game reporters want to know too.

But this is a very messy debate. It's gone back and forth to death around here. A lot of people are of the opinion that trying to split ship functions among different players would be an utter disaster. Say you're taking fire, and you need more power to shields NOW - but your Engineer is AFK. Or say you need to save your photon torpedo fire for when it really counts...but the guy you picked up to play Tactical is a trigger-happy maniac who ain't listening to the group.

In the end, though - consider this. The game's heading into beta. It's gotta be mostly done by this point. I mean, yeah, they got a lot of work to do, a lot of details to finish, stuff to adjust and add in. But in general they have a combat system and game balance already complete.

The game is balanced around every player commanding their own starship. There is no provision for folks to team up on a starship. Even if they WANTED to add it, it's not practical at this late stage. It'd throw stuff completely out of whack. They'd have to make new code, new interface elements. They'd have to rebalance combat.

They can't do all that and still get this title out the door by 2010.

this might be a square peg in a round hole, but why not give an option on leaving space dock, or command to change in battle. Can we at least have passengers who can share view? IAfter SWG, I'd rather control all the weapons myself, since it can get hard to find people to join you. If all are multiplayer, running from pilot to tactical to engineering station gets rough even with just 2 people, let alone yourself. Then it's, well, I don't want to be in your ship because I don't like your flying... ect...

[Drexxus3d]

I've commented on this sort of things many time, but i'll just recap.

Personally, I would LOVE to have an entire ship full of players and have 90% of players that play the game as officers on the ships instead of ships themselves. I think letting every single person captain their own ship is just inflating the federation's numbers insanely. I mean there could potentially be MILLIONS of ships and captains depending on how popular STO becomes. That is a lot, certainly more than starfleet ever had at any given time. And don't even get me started on every single little player eventually becoming an admiral because that is just ludicrous.

But, that is the game they have designed, and while flawed from a realistic point of view, from a strictly gaming perspective it's still gonna be fun to play which is ultimately all that really matters (whether it's fun enough to keep paying for it every month).

In the game they have designed, there is no room for player crews. I mean watch the combat videos if you haven't seen them. You gonna have one player just fly the ship around, and a whole other player just hold the spacebar down the whole time shooting the enemy ships? Then a completely seperate player as your science officer who only does special abilities?

I mean that's like playing World of Warcraft and having one guy move, one guy in charge of auto attacking, and one guy in charge of special attacks. Then the captain doesn't do anything but tell them what to do.

That sounds pretty boring for each individual player having so little to do when one player could easily do all of it.

Like I said i'd love to have a more startrek simulator-ish game, but that isn't what STO is about and they can't just fundamentally change game mechanics this late in development and they wouldn't anyway because your average player thats gonna have this game is gonna be your average gamer which means they won't want to do anything but what they want to do, and that involves not having to follow orders and having the freedom to go where they want when they want instead of at the whim of another player (their captain).

[Eclipse1987]

to basically sum it up.

1. player crews are for the majority of players not fun, its been stated before that ppl dont want someone telling them what to do or spending twenty hours spamming the space bar to fire phasers.

2. idealy in a perfect world ppl would be mature and thoughtful however in r.l. ppl are crass, rude and have ego problems imagine trying to depend on them to have a fun game experience.

3. the idea has more problems than it's worth, with pacing,game mechanics and of course th ever previlant question of deciding an fair system of who is captain etc.

4. the technical issue. if player a has a poor internet connection and frequently drops or lags out how much fun is that?

5. cordinating with guild members is hard as is imagine trying to get 5-8 ppl online everyday across diffrent timezones; sometimes 4-5 hours or more apart, what if smeone is sick or has to cancel their subscription then what deal with pugs and have some power tripping brat who dosent want to follow orders fill in?

these are just what I thought off the top of my head, Im sure I could spend twenty minutes coming up with reasons why this wont work.


I dont mean to be dissmissive but imho player crews were a horrible idea to begin with and thankfully cryptic didnt go that route.

sorry for writing a book but i just had to get that out.