Starwars or Startrek? I'm confused...

[ginseng]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

This is like a sour version of either Startrek or Starwars, can't really tell. Oh wait... it says its Startrek.

What say you?

[Sorayn]

Sorry mate but you need to get your ears checked. The two pieces of music are about as much the same as an elephant and a mouse.

[AraYm]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

What say you?

First I gotta say...dude you've way to much time if you're nitpicking about that
And secondly I would say it sounds trekkish IMO

[Rivaris]

lets see what do i say o i know,

Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[Sivar]

While there is a slight similarity (and by slight I should say non-existent), it is a far stretch from saying that Cryptic used the opener for Star Wars, such would be blasphemy :p

[jblancato]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

What say you?

It's an orchestral piece. They tend to sound similar. How is that pathetic? A musical score is enough to turn you off of a game? It sounds like you're going to miss out, man.

[Tokoth]

I really don't hear much similarity. The scores are sufficiently different for me to not think Star Wars when I see the character creator video, and it's marked as distinctly Star Trek at the beginning when a snippit of the main Star Trek Theme is played. I think this is a bit of overreaction in my opinion.

[ginseng]

I really don't hear much similarity. The scores are sufficiently different for me to not think Star Wars when I see the character creator video, and it's marked as distinctly Star Trek at the beginning when a snippit of the main Star Trek Theme is played. I think this is a bit of overreaction in my opinion.

They are different scores. But there are similarities that are perverting the true Startrek flavor... I don't like it.

[Sivar]

They are different scores. But there are similarities that are perverting the true Startrek flavor... I don't like it.

Let it go dude, it's just a piece in a trailer, not the game :cool:

[ginseng]

Let it go dude, it's just a piece in a trailer, not the game :cool:

I sure do hope so...

[ransomwk]

While they are rather different, I can hear what the OP is talking about. They are similar in that they both start out big, try to hold that mood, then go calm, then back to big. Both songs have the same mood.

The STO one does sound like Star Trek, though the two songs express them selves differently, they are both saying the same thing.

[Avatar_of_Champions]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

This is like a sour version of either Startrek or Starwars, can't really tell. Oh wait... it says its Startrek.

What say you?

While similar they are not exactly the same, and they are different enough in my opinion not to be compared to much.

[eqfan592]

I think it sounds more like the theme music from the crappy 70's movie Angels Revenge. How DARE you copy off of such a horrible movie, Cryptic! Not only will I be not buying your game, but I will be protesting in front of a gamestop on the day of it's release! You and you're entire company are worse than Hitler! .......................*snark* :p

[krnr]

i think the Star Trek music Piece is actually older then the Star wars one.

[Banar]

How is Star Trek known any less for it's excellent orchestral sound tracks? Watch the movies especially. The introductions to the shows (though not Enterprise, that I thought was very untrek) are also epic. It's like comparing Beethoven and friggin Mozart.

"HOLY CRAP! Did Mozart just use a cello like that one Beethoven piece? I'm boycotting that unoriginal hack!"

[erriku]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

This is like a sour version of either Startrek or Starwars, can't really tell. Oh wait... it says its Startrek.

What say you?

They are nothing alike at all. You don't even know what you are posting about. Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh but what exactly is your musical background to make such a call? The only similarity that these two scores have are that they both use musical instruments.

[Suricata]

The only similarity is that the 2 tracks use similar instrumentation, mainly brass, which is common in alot of sci-fi stuff to be honest. It just sounds like Generic Sci-fi orchestrial music to me. To be honest, with the limited ammount of notes available its amazing more tunes don't sound similar to each other!

I'm yet to play a game where the actual music has made me dislike a game, althoguh I haved played some games where the music has got me more engrossed in the game, like Earth and Beyond.

[eqfan592]

The only similarity that these two scores have are that they both use musical instruments.

For somebody only interested in finding something to complain about, that similarity is enough. ;)

"Cryptic should have been innovative enough to design NEW musical instruments to have played for it's music, instead of stealing the instruments from Star Wars!! It's yet another sign of their lack of imagination and inability to innovate, and another nail in the coffin for this game!"

[erriku]

For somebody only interested in finding something to complain about, that similarity is enough. ;)

"Cryptic should have been innovative enough to design NEW musical instruments to have played for it's music, instead of stealing the instruments from Star Wars!! It's yet another sign of their lack of imagination and inability to innovate, and another nail in the coffin for this game!"

Ha ha. Very nice.

[cipher_nemo]

Instead, the OP could have posted here that he noticed music from the Character Creation selection video was quite similar to Star Wars theme music. The community would've said, may be, but they're still quite different, along with the comments on orchestra music being similar with trumpets, etc. And we probably wouldn't have responded so harshly.

But the OP saying this:

This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online.

...just gave everyone a license to flame him.

Perhaps we can just close the thread and forget about it?

[scholarman]

They are different scores. But there are similarities that are perverting the true Startrek flavor... I don't like it.

I entirely disagree. The only similarities come from two facts: they are both horn-centric and they both use triumphals as part of their core melody. The scores are quite dissimilar -- the RotS score is a variation of the core Williams Star Wars theme, which is meant to evoke a sense of grandeur and excitement. The Character Creator trailer uses more soloists and a very different cadence meant to evoke a sense of wonder. The former is meant to get your heart racing for action, the latter is meant to intrigue and interest you.

Thematically, they're almost entirely different. They're in different times, they have different orchestrations, and their bridges are very, very different indeed.

As far as getting away from the true Star Trek flavor -- the CC's core theme is reminiscent of ST:TNG's theme in energy, but put through a DS9 filter. It has a more 'incidental music' flavor admittedly, but that just means this isn't the opening title of a series.

Admittedly, this theme does not sound even remotely like Rod Stewart composed it.

[Avatar_of_Champions]

The starwars theme, and for that matter, the star trek them are both very recognizable...

And they both have a certain epic quality to them. Its queit understandable then why a composer makine music for one or the other MMO might make soemthing similar. And while yes they are similar, the disdain you have seems a little out of character...

There are many posibilites why this could havew happened, maybe the PR department put it together? And someone there got the two IPs mixed up (and don't tell me it doesn't happen, Ive seen interviews with George Lucas when he said star trek instead of starwars and decided to have someone compose something he thought was iconic to the series.

We don't know. I'm not saying its a big deal, and I'm not saying it isn't. But while the fans have had rivalries over the two IPs for YEARS the actual owners of the IPs have never seemed to have issues.


So before we turn this into world war 3 could we tone down the rhetoric and snark on both sides?

[peter13317]

I sure do hope so...

Smack yourself please.

Lol @ whoever thinks any real similar content doesn't end at a piece of trailer music.

[scholarman]

While they are rather different, I can hear what the OP is talking about. They are similar in that they both start out big, try to hold that mood, then go calm, then back to big. Both songs have the same mood.

The two themes share that with 94.7% of all orchestral themes of television shows. You hit hard, you back off, you hit hard again.

For an entirely different sounding theme song with exactly the same progression, listen to the A-Team theme. You have that opening dah-da-dah DAHHHHH! Dah dah dah! that grabs your attention, it develops that theme, and then right as it goes to Dirk Benedict's credit the theme changes gears. It's generally called a bridge (or a 'middle eight,' a la Doctor Who). Then, you go back to the opening style for the resolution.

This is soundtrack 101 in action. :)

[scholarman]

The two themes share that with 94.7% of all orchestral themes of television shows. You hit hard, you back off, you hit hard again.

For an entirely different sounding theme song with exactly the same progression, listen to the A-Team theme. You have that opening dah-da-dah DAHHHHH! Dah dah dah! that grabs your attention, it develops that theme, and then right as it goes to Dirk Benedict's credit the theme changes gears. It's generally called a bridge (or a 'middle eight,' a la Doctor Who). Then, you go back to the opening style for the resolution.

This is soundtrack 101 in action. :)

Actually, having mentioned Dirk Benedict -- the original Battlestar Galactica theme ('70's version, not 2000s) absolutely epitomized this progression. And now that I think about, so did the Space: 1999 theme.

[pretto]

Let it go dude, it's just a piece in a trailer, not the game :cool:

I hope it's in the game. I really liked it. Great score.

[cipher_nemo]

The two themes share that with 94.7% of all orchestral themes of television shows. You hit hard, you back off, you hit hard again.

For an entirely different sounding theme song with exactly the same progression, listen to the A-Team theme. You have that opening dah-da-dah DAHHHHH! Dah dah dah! that grabs your attention, it develops that theme, and then right as it goes to Dirk Benedict's credit the theme changes gears. It's generally called a bridge (or a 'middle eight,' a la Doctor Who). Then, you go back to the opening style for the resolution.

This is soundtrack 101 in action. :)

Nice description. :)

[ginseng]

Everyone can't help but defend StarTrek online. You can close this thread. I'm done here.

[scholarman]

Should I pick the two scores apart and show you the similarities? I can.

Compare the StarWars video starting at 00:07 with the StarTrek video starting at 0:15.
One difference you can tell right away is that they are in different keys.

Unfortunately, your complaint is coming across less as "I have made a detailed examination and found these pieces to be thematically and qualitatively similar" and more "dude, my band has this song and I listened to this other band and they have a song and they TOTALLY RIPPED US OFF."

I've listened to both pieces several times now, and the sense of similarity between the two of them is pretty much confined to subjective opinion. And thematically, the sense they convey is quite different.

Everyone involved will stipulate similarities -- similarities they share with a lot of other pieces of music, particularly when it's been composed as a soundtrack or opening credits of some kind. You're mistaking commonalities of form with duplication, and it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[erriku]

I have experience arranging music and I have been playing the bass guitar for several years in a couple of bands. I can tell you if a note is sharp or flat compared to another note with my ear. I can also tune my bass while I'm playing live in a band. So I have a good enough ear to hear tunes and melodies in different keys.

Should I pick the two scores apart and show you the similarities? I can.

Compare the StarWars video starting at 00:07 with the StarTrek video starting at 0:15.
One difference you can tell right away is that they are in different keys.

Well, since you offered, do it. It will please me. Try finding things that are not there. And I'm sure someone that actually knows about music will eventually come in here and post the differences in the melodies. Maybe someone can even use the Parsons code. These two themes are nothing alike at all other than they use similar instruments.

[Eclipse1987]

when i saw this post my first thought was: seriously?

with a million and one things to be concerned about you picked this?

*rage mode activated* how could cryptic dare to use music with similar instruments omg, i only play games with music scores that have instruments ive never heard before! this disgusts me to the point i will never play this game!!!

if this post isnt a trolling ill eat my hat...

that said ppl who want to quit and complain will FIND a reason no matter how trivial or illegitiment, as exeplified by the o.p.

if its such a deal breaker go play smething else, no one is forcing you to play sto.

[Banar]

I have experience arranging music and I have been playing the bass guitar for several years in a couple of bands. I can tell you if a note is sharp or flat compared to another note with my ear. I can also tune my bass while I'm playing live in a band. So I have a good enough ear to hear tunes and melodies in different keys.

Should I pick the two scores apart and show you the similarities? I can.

Compare the StarWars video starting at 00:07 with the StarTrek video starting at 0:15.
One difference you can tell right away is that they are in different keys.

Flame on!

Of course they are similar. All Epic orchestral songs are similar in arrangement. Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people can pick out a sharp or flat note. It's literally childs play, and not especially impressive. To say that Cryptic is being unoriginal by using an epic orchestral piece in a Star Trek game in completely ridiculous.

I realize I am being harsh, but honestly, trying to trash the game and Cryptic with something so blatantly foolish deserves such a response. Eye for an eye in this circumstance.

[DocSavag]

I don't hear the real simularity at all. One starts with the iconic Star Wars intro and the other with the obligatory Alexander Courage theme..from there they never sounded very similar to me but maybe I'm just a hack with no musical knowledge..I didn't know game companies were supposed to analyze every note to make sure it doesn't obscurely match up with some other music before they put up a promotional video about their character creator.

[scholarman]

Of course they are similar. All Epic orchestral songs are similar in arrangement. Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people can pick out a sharp or flat note. It's literally childs play, and not especially impressive. To say that Cryptic is being unoriginal by using an epic orchestral piece in a Star Trek game in completely ridiculous.

I realize I am being harsh, but honestly, trying to trash the game and Cryptic with something so blatantly foolish deserves such a response. Eye for an eye in this circumstance.

I would argue the Character Creator's piece isn't even all that epic -- it's got more of an 'isn't this interesting' feel to it, as befits a trailer for non-action functionality. This is less the triumphant opening theme of Star Trek the Motion Picture, and more the slower variation they played for seventeen hours while Kirk and Scotty circled the Enterprise in a shuttlecraft.

[DocSavag]

I would argue the Character Creator's piece isn't even all that epic -- it's got more of an 'isn't this interesting' feel to it, as befits a trailer for non-action functionality. This is less the triumphant opening theme of Star Trek the Motion Picture, and more the slower variation they played for seventeen hours while Kirk and Scotty circled the Enterprise in a shuttlecraft.

That scene does go on forever but only in retrospect the first time I saw it in 79 I didn't think it was long enough :D

[scholarman]

That scene does go on forever but only in retrospect the first time I saw it in 79 I didn't think it was long enough :D

You know... you're absolutely right. :)

[fractaleye]

Everyone can't help but defend StarTrek online. You can close this thread. I'm done here.

While I agree with the majority of this thread that the only similarity is similar instruments, I do believe the OP requested a closing of this thread. I support ginseng in that regard.

[Banar]

That scene does go on forever but only in retrospect the first time I saw it in 79 I didn't think it was long enough :D

That was a glorious moment, hehe...

As far as the accompanyment goes, you can't have an "in your face awesome epicness" track for that long, you have to "water it down" so to speak.

[scholarman]

While I agree with the majority of this thread that the only similarity is similar instruments, I do believe the OP requested a closing of this thread. I support ginseng in that regard.

I agree nothing else needs to be said, but editing one of your responses into an ad hominem attack is less a request to close the topic and more a... well, flouncing out of the room. I'll admit to being disinclined to support such a thing. ;)

[Vorgse]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

This is really pathetic in my eyes to see a high profile game company such as Cryptic using a song similar to the intro song in Starwars. What are they thinking? This alone would prevent me from buying and playing Startrek online. At least put some effort into it and be creative a little... good god.

This is like a sour version of either Startrek or Starwars, can't really tell. Oh wait... it says its Startrek.

What say you?

I listened to it, I see what you're saying, but only in one regard. If you only listen to the trombones/baritones they have almost the same part in each, however that's where the similarities end IMO.

I would say the feel and mood of the STO music you referenced is more Galaxy Quest than Star Wars. Which is fine, I'd love to pilot the NSEA Protector in the game.

[eqfan592]

Everyone can't help but defend StarTrek online. You can close this thread. I'm done here.

This isn't a matter of defending anything. You simply went about this in a very poor way. And you have nobody to blame for that but yourself.

[eqfan592]

You're mistaking commonalities of form with duplication, and it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Boom! Slam dunk! You nailed it RIGHT there, Borysthenis! Well done, sir! :)

[fractaleye]

I agree nothing else needs to be said, but editing one of your responses into an ad hominem attack is less a request to close the topic and more a... well, flouncing out of the room. I'll admit to being disinclined to support such a thing. ;)

Oh, I have no love for the way it was written (or edited) either. I would have liked to flame him as well. I just think that this thread should be closed (due to OP request). There's a lot of good discussion about the music in here, but I think it's tainted by the wording of the OP. It would be better to have a different thread made, preferably in Non-STO discussion, because that is what it is imo. :)

[eqfan592]

I would argue the Character Creator's piece isn't even all that epic -- it's got more of an 'isn't this interesting' feel to it, as befits a trailer for non-action functionality. This is less the triumphant opening theme of Star Trek the Motion Picture, and more the slower variation they played for seventeen hours while Kirk and Scotty circled the Enterprise in a shuttlecraft.

Seventeen hours and 23 minutes. I timed it with my stop watch. ;)

[eqfan592]

I listened to it, I see what you're saying, but only in one regard. If you only listen to the trombones/baritones they have almost the same part in each, however that's where the similarities end IMO.

I would say the feel and mood of the STO music you referenced is more Galaxy Quest than Star Wars. Which is fine, I'd love to pilot the NSEA Protector in the game.

In all honesty, and all joking aside, I also thought that the feel of the STO trailer music was closer tot he Galaxy Quest music than the Star Wars music. It was one of the first thoughts I had when listening to it. Again, not a direct copy in the least, but it was the first piece that sprung to mind.

[The.Grand.Nagus]

Can anyone explain the difference between the two musical scores in these videos?

Um, the have different melodies? Theres no question, they are different. However, they are also similar. In fact, the STO video actualy sounds like a cheesy ripoff of the theme from Galaxy Quest.

[eqfan592]

Oh, I have no love for the way it was written (or edited) either. I would have liked to flame him as well. I just think that this thread should be closed (due to OP request). There's a lot of good discussion about the music in here, but I think it's tainted by the wording of the OP. It would be better to have a different thread made, preferably in Non-STO discussion, because that is what it is imo. :)

Hmm, very good point on this. /agree

[eqfan592]

Um, the have different melodies? Theres no question, they are different. However, they are also similar. In fact, the STO video actualy sounds like a cheesy ripoff of the theme from Galaxy Quest.

lol, yet another person makes the Galaxy Quest connection :)

[fractaleye]

lol, yet another person makes the Galaxy Quest connection :)

Yay! Galaxy Quest! (Now I'm probably going to watch it for the 3rd time in about 5 days.... Thanks. :P (j/k love that movie))

[AdmiralHocking]

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Opening Title - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8nJXiyFBk)
Star Trek Online Character Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)


Your choice of Star Wars music for comparison was quite poor, perhaps better reception would have been received had you linked to this instead;

The Phantom Menace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr1jHBd5upo)
STO Character Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8mu7hmNQk)

I must admit, when I originally saw the STO character trailer, I was instantly reminded of the scenes set in Mos Espa during that film.

[SelorKiith]

Um, the have different melodies? Theres no question, they are different. However, they are also similar. In fact, the STO video actualy sounds like a cheesy ripoff of the theme from Galaxy Quest.

Yeah the first Time I heard it I also thought of Galaxy Quest! ^^

[thefreshjedi]

...
What say you?

The force is not strong in this one.

-avery

[Galv]

I sure do hope so...

Don't worry, you can play your own score if you want, i'll be listerning to this while playing STO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdysH77YxFw&feature=related

Love the new Vulcun theme about 2 mins awwwww.