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tacticalzen
09-04-2009, 11:01 PM
Hi all, I thought I'd share my hands-on impressions of Star Trek Online with the community from PAX 2009 today.

First thing you should know is that I haven't been as active -- even lurking -- here much. I've been following STO off and on, watching occasional official videos and screenshots. This was mostly due to an interest in this game, so I'm kind of avoiding prejudging it based on work in progress content. Just warning you because at a glance at the forums without getting into it, it seems like there's a lot of debate on what STO should be. I'm going to report first on what I played, then what my hopes are, and I'll leave the debate up to you guys.

Anyway, lots of text ahead, video links below (hit the 'HQ' button for high quality!).

The Demo:
The demo took me from a Starbase in a light cruiser to the hot spot. The camera zooms in and the ship goes to warp, just like you'd expect from Trek. Then it fades out, shows the ship fading back into space.

From there, I encounter three Birds of Prey in an asteroid field over a planet. Although they're pouring fire down my way, either they gave me really good shields or the Birds of Prey were level 1 minion equivalents. I dispatch them relatively quickly. It's pretty impressive how they manage to capture the feel of Star Trek combat, with both sounds and action.

My captain then beams down into a Klingon facility and a relatively standard MMO experience follows; you walk through the facility, encounter random surprised guards, whack 'em and accomplish your objective of taking the base. (video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiABzxLfLvM))

From there, you beam to an outdoors area with the Guardian of Forever in the distance, and encounter squads of Klingons wandering. You give them their day of glory, and proceed to the gate whereupon the demo ends. (video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd7EfxVbO5o))

So, my actual impressions.

Environment/Setting: They've got it down.The setting is very nice without looking like Champions' more cartoony style. The ships look like they've been made with love. The special effects are doing well, but it's easy to miss it in the frantic combat. The uniforms are also excellent; the concept artists did a great job. Also, space is a bit more expansive than some screenshots look. For a while, it looked like space was the most cluttered and claustrophobic emptiness you'd ever seen, and that was worrisome.

Space Combat: This is what I was looking forward to, but it seemed like combat was either too short or too long. Either way it involved hitting shields till they dropped, then pumping torpedoes in. Now normally I tend to solo due to my schedule, but this is starting to look like the fun in space combat comes from having fleets and friends, when everything's flying every which way. Watching the fights unfold a dozen or two times through the day, it kind of all felt samey. I don't think I cared as much for my ship as to whether my fuller blue bar was pointing at the bad guys.

Ground Combat: It has a good yet very familiar feel. I may simply have played too many MMOs, but the ground combat is pretty standard. Oh look, Klingon coming around the corner. I start firing, my NPC Officers start firing. Maybe different beams are involved or some of them go in for melee. Loot is dropped from ground baddies just like in CO: Take Take All Cancel. Options seem to be limited compared to Champions, though; you can only do so much phaser-firing and strategy pretty much consisted of maybe grenades, buff your shields, kicking/shoving your enemy to the ground, and pumping him full of phaser fire while he's there. Because that's how the Federation rolls, yo.

Customizability: The ability to customize Bridge Officers completely so that they are an extension of your abilities is a very attractive feature. It seems like they have put some thought into the customization levels, because I had feared that you'd get Federation ships with the equivalent of racing stripes; the customization ability can be a lot more subtle, which is good, since it retains the silhouettes and colors.

Polish: It looks very polished for not even being in Closed Beta. Gameplay was smooth and the visuals were terrific. Of course, I can't speak to game balance because that's still in the air. It seems like they've got the Cryptic Engine ready to handle the combat portion of the game.


Final Analysis
It should probably be more noted that this was a combat demo, because that's all that was presented, and it may carry a lot more significance in context. It was weird, because a month ago I was so-so about Champions Online, and really had my heart set on STO. Now I find myself subscribed to CO, and so-so about STO. One of my friends who is really into Star Trek doesn't even want to touch this game because he's certain it'll just be 'another MMO with a Star Trek skin.' I will not be showing him these videos.

I think my hopes for STO still lie in the systems under development. I didn't get to see any out-of-combat customization of the crew, numbers under the hood for gear or characters, character development, Starbase interiors, the Genesis system, epic star maps where you can see lines of battle or missions to undertake, none of those things. Of course, it's probably at least a year away, so they've got some time to do it. I just hope that we can see more than phaser fire, although that is one of its strengths right now.

Recommendations
There are still plenty of things they can do to improve the more personal nature of Trek. Even just having your Offices respond with actual voiceovers when you click on them would go far. Just, say, 4 types of voices saying 'Yes, Captain?' or 'Enemy approaching' would help. We're not talking The Old Republic level of voiceover commitment, more like Starcraft audio cues. Then throw in an option for people who want just text cues if audio annoys them. And if you made them replaceable on a local client, I swear that my tactical officer will completely use Worf voice clips.

Work on those non-combat systems! Star Trek wasn't exactly known for its awesome martial arts skills and gripping hand phaser firefights. Well, before the new movie anyway but that's a different thread. :)

Some additional notes (and I'm sure many of you know this now, but it was news to me):

Progression seems to be in zones. You can go wherever you please with a caution advisory, but it looks like you'll take care of Klingon issues here, for example, then go to Cardassian space to handle things there, etc. So it kind of looks like things might be zoned by character rank/skill suggestions.
Defeats so far are slaps on the wrist, you just restart the section you're at or the mission you're on.
Looks like plot twists and communications are going to be via pop-up heads/viewscreens and text accompanying it.
If you pick up loot from space combat, you can only try to equip it via engineering if your ship is out of combat; no grabbing that Klingon Disruptor Cannon +5 and throwing it at your Chief and telling him to make it so in 30 seconds while under heavy fire.
Interface can be laid out how you want; move things to where you want to see them or makes sense for you.
NPCs have move-to, target commands similar to Guild Wars' Heroes, it looks like; otherwise they're pretty autonomous
If you don't have enough Bridge Officers to come with you on an Away mission, they'll be filled out by redshirts (5 member teams)
Bridge Officers are completely yours, and with the points you earn from experience you decide where they go; you can upgrade your Officer's skills even if you never let them leave the ship


Personal Log: Can we get an astrometrics lab nao plz? :)

Hansol
09-05-2009, 12:01 AM
Tnx for the nice overview post and the info :)

from looks of the ground battle think playing with players in a group and not with npcs will be abit better andd overall more fun.

basekid
09-05-2009, 12:15 AM
Thanks for that!

bkm250
09-05-2009, 12:20 AM
Thanks for the post, much appreciated!

boothby
09-05-2009, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the 2 Videos

Azurian
09-05-2009, 12:29 AM
After seeing those ground combat videos, my impressions were:

1) There definitely needs to be a First Person perspective. I don't want to be panning my camera all the time to get line of sight of my character fighting.

2) I think the aura of selection needs to be tweeked. It's too dorky for me.

3) Why are all outside ground combat seemingly to be in paths / canyons. Where is the freedom you get with other MMO's where you got fields to fight on? :confused:

Tamgros
09-05-2009, 12:34 AM
It's good to hear a review like this. I asked a lot of people who randomly came around what they thought. Most players were decidedly happy, but some players (like the OP) are left wanting more, because it's star trek.

It's kind of interesting to me. I think a lot of my excitement is as a gamer. To STO's credit, this wasn't really a ST demo, it was jsut a quick 5ish minute demo. ST was never about delivering a story in that time.

For me, I'm sold on combat aspects. So I too wonder, what else? If the 'else' is great, this game could be just epic. I do ask some questions to Zinc about this and they'll be shown at www.hailingfrequency.com around 8 AM Pacific tomorrow (PAX time)

Perhaps that will help some people out.

Tamgros
09-05-2009, 12:38 AM
After seeing those ground combat videos, my impressions were:

1) There definitely needs to be a First Person perspective. I don't want to be panning my camera all the time to get line of sight of my character fighting.

2) I think the aura of selection needs to be tweeked. It's too dorky for me.

3) Why are all outside ground combat seemingly to be in paths / canyons. Where is the freedom you get with other MMO's where you got fields to fight on? :confused:

1) ground or space? There was a way to lock to your view towards opponent on both ground in space. It pans automatically

2) *shrugs*

3) you had a great deal of freedom, I actually didn't even see the end of the map, ever. I even went searching for a while and found some tribbles! And I'm being serious, there's just stuff around to go see...

HittingSmoke
09-05-2009, 12:39 AM
After seeing those ground combat videos, my impressions were:

1) There definitely needs to be a First Person perspective. I don't want to be panning my camera all the time to get line of sight of my character fighting.

2) I think the aura of selection needs to be tweeked. It's too dorky for me.

3) Why are all outside ground combat seemingly to be in paths / canyons. Where is the freedom you get with other MMO's where you got fields to fight on? :confused:

1) You can zoom in to first person. So far there's no visible weapons or anything in 1st person... I'll make a note to ask about that tomorrow.

3) This is a short demo. This in no way reflects the worlds that will be implemented after release. Even these didn't feel closed in. When I played I had no problem just running over the hills to find more enemies in the outdoor ground combat scenario.

Azurian
09-05-2009, 12:47 AM
1) ground or space? There was a way to lock to your view towards opponent on both ground in space. It pans automatically

2) *shrugs*

3) you had a great deal of freedom, I actually didn't even see the end of the map, ever. I even went searching for a while and found some tribbles! And I'm being serious, there's just stuff around to go see...

1) Well with Space, I don't mind the 3rd Person Perspective. Though I would admit, if asteroid collisions were still in, First Person would be good for navigating through it.

But with the ground, adjusting your camera to see would distracting from the fight. And annoying you seeing through the walls.

3) Let me ask you, the entire time you played on the ground, was there fields where you could run about in? Or was it always done in a single path or canyon that went from the starting point to the end?

That's what I really don't like about the ground aspect. It's so limiting and I guarantee people will get tired of it, fast.

1) You can zoom in to first person. So far there's no visible weapons or anything in 1st person... I'll make a note to ask about that tomorrow.

3) This is a short demo. This in no way reflects the worlds that will be implemented after release. Even these didn't feel closed in. When I played I had no problem just running over the hills to find more enemies in the outdoor ground combat scenario.

1) Thanks, but I thought they said there was no first person? :confused:

3) Yeah, but like I just pointed out above, it's not open not like in other MMOs like EQ, SWG, DAOC, etc where you got huge fields and an actual chance to explore. Instead what we seen of STO is everything happens on a single path, which leads to somewhere. That's awfully restricting and it would get to people after a while.

reznorism
09-05-2009, 12:52 AM
Interface can be laid out how you want; move things to where you want to see them or makes sense for you.

Excellent! Customization of the UI is of great importance to quite a number of people I game with.

Tamgros
09-05-2009, 12:54 AM
1) Well with Space, I don't mind the 3rd Person Perspective. Though I would admit, if asteroid collisions were still in, First Person would be good for navigating through it.

But with the ground, adjusting your camera to see would distracting from the fight. And annoying you seeing through the walls.

3) Let me ask you, the entire time you played on the ground, was there fields where you could run about in? Or was it always done in a single path or canyon that went from the starting point to the end?

That's what I really don't like about the ground aspect. It's so limiting and I guarantee people will get tired of it, fast.



1) Thanks, but I thought they said there was no first person? :confused:

3) Yeah, but like I just pointed out above, it's not open not like in other MMOs like EQ, SWG, DAOC, etc where you got huge fields and an actual chance to explore. Instead what we seen of STO is everything happens on a single path, which leads to somewhere. That's awfully restricting and it would get to people after a while.

1) He's right, you can zoom in to 'first person' in both ground and space. Nothing really changes in the UI, but you don't see your ship/avatar, and are looking from their perspective. I saw this when I was in LV as well.

3) Like I said, I think you an just explore, for a while. I didn't feel like I was in a valley. The other demo I saw at vegas felt more like a valley, but not this one. One guy I saw just kept on running around killing cards and Klingons... He eventually found some tribbles an started kicking them playing tribble soccer...

HittingSmoke
09-05-2009, 12:57 AM
1) Thanks, but I thought they said there was no first person? :confused:

3) Yeah, but like I just pointed out above, it's not open not like in other MMOs like EQ, SWG, DAOC, etc where you got huge fields and an actual chance to explore. Instead what we seen of STO is everything happens on a single path, which leads to somewhere. That's awfully restricting and it would get to people after a while.

I scrolled the mouse wheel all the way in and found myself in first person... They probably meant there was no FPS play where you could shoot at will.

I don't know where you're getting this. There hasn't been enough info released about ground combat and planets to make that assumption. The demo is hardly an accurate representation. It played more like a tutorial intro, which should be linear!

HittingSmoke
09-05-2009, 12:59 AM
... One guy I saw just kept on running around killing cards and Klingons... He eventually found some tribbles an started kicking them playing tribble soccer...

I'm soo trying this tomorrow...

Azurian
09-05-2009, 01:00 AM
1) He's right, you can zoom in to 'first person' in both ground and space. Nothing really changes in the UI, but you don't see your ship/avatar, and are looking from their perspective. I saw this when I was in LV as well.

3) Like I said, I think you an just explore, for a while. I didn't feel like I was in a valley. The other demo I saw at vegas felt more like a valley, but not this one. One guy I saw just kept on running around killing cards and Klingons... He eventually found some tribbles an started kicking them playing tribble soccer...

Haha, kicking tribbles? Sweet! Hope someone caught that on video! :D



Well since you can zoom in to first person, that's okay. Hopefully they will enhance the first person ground combat to actually see your weapons.

Thought I still think that targeting aura needs to change. Hope we got the option to choose so we can have combat rings like in other MMO's.

HittingSmoke
09-05-2009, 01:02 AM
Haha, kicking tribbles? Sweet! Hope someone caught that on video! :D



Well since you can zoom in to first person, that's okay. Hopefully they will enhance the first person ground combat to actually see your weapons.

Thought I still think that targeting aura needs to change. Hope we got the option to choose so we can have combat rings like in other MMO's.

I don't understand what you find wrong with targeting... You haven't elaborated on it...

Davies82
09-05-2009, 01:25 AM
Awesome vids tactical zen.

Much appreciated.

:)

CoffinDNC
09-05-2009, 01:49 AM
Thanks from me too; nice read and vids.

JPJappic
09-05-2009, 03:08 AM
I just have a questions for you guys, were you guys able to try out the character creator at all? Or were you able to customize the appearance of your bridge officers? And if so, what kind of features were there?

No1UKnow
09-05-2009, 03:08 AM
Thanks. Awesome read. Sounded very honest and non fanboish. Let's hope the development improves throughout the closed beta phase.

.Spartan
09-05-2009, 03:34 AM
Thanks for the post, much appreciated!

That... :D

Loekii
09-05-2009, 04:01 AM
Thanks for posting the video.

While I think Ground combat is on the right track, it certainly has a ways to go.

A couple of things I really DISLIKED that I saw:

Far too Static Enemy AI -- They seem to stand there and Targets.

Enemy needs larger Aggro ranges - They should aggro at the RANGE of phasers, not at 20'.
Needs to be less a 'Target Dummy', and more a Challenging 'Foe'.

Range Fighting at 'MELEE' -- Range users running up or fighting from basically Close quarters.

I am sure this will improve, but it needs to be more like stated elsewhere (Range behavior and Melee behavior).
Both for Enemy and BO AI. Again, a Cover system would improve this I think.
Far TOO much Melee.

GLOWING LOOT BALL ICON :mad:

HATE, HATE, HATE it.
Breaks immersion and feels 'coddling' (we are not that stupid, we know to loot bodies).
Prefer the WoW style of just clicking on a body to 'search it'.

Overall stale feeling, I can see it getting tediously boring fast.

Target - spam Pew, Pew, Judo chop, run over 'glowying ball', rinse/repeat.
Needs to be a bit more 'tactical', make positioning important, make AI more interesting, etc


Again, I like the basics, but this is certainly not appealing and captivating gameplay. If they can make it interesting and engaging, so it feels fresher and exciting, I think it will be an enjoyable game. However, I am bored with the Ground combat system just watching the video -- rather than being on the edge of my seat with anticipation. I think some of the PaX reviews have commented on Ground Combat issues as well.

In short, while it looks nice, it lacks spice. I don't see it being enjoyable after the first hour, in its current condition.

Elboulevardo
09-05-2009, 06:50 AM
To Lokeii: i agree with your sentiment about the ground combat in that in its current condition it feels stale and boring...i, for the first time, found myself questioning my excitement...however that said...we all have to recognize that this is a pre-closed beta demo showing off the combat to date...they've made a lot of strides from Vegas to Pax in just a short couple of months, so given that speed of progress, i have little doubt that come release, there is going to be a ton of polish, immersion, fluff, and everything else that makes any game (not just an ST game) complete.

the other big point is now that closed beta is seemingly around the corner, the devs will finally get the opportunity to take constructive (not always) and tangible feedback from live players of the game.

all the forum suggestions/comments/whines/gripes to date have been based on data and information that we've been given in writing, screen shots, and the few demo videos...<1% of that feedback is directly from play testing

the closed beta i am willing to bet is going to really help properly steer the devs down that final path to release....ideas are great on paper and in theory, but without your player base really giving it a go and producing valuable feedback, it will be impossible for them to get it right just based on their own perceptions on what they feel we will enjoy in a ST MMO

so i really caution people to take what we've seen so far with a grain of salt and try not to judge it too harshly...still a WIP

my impressions overall are very good, even with the ground combat being a bit lame in its current state...the space combat seemed awesome!

just some thoughts:

- do something with the shield representation...there has to be a better way to animate it and HUD it. the blue bars are neat but they are way too overimposing in the view, makes it look gimmicky

- i love the idea of the "skin shield" that we've seen from Nemesis on the Soverign...but i found the problem is that when weapons hit the shileds, not only do they produce the shield effect, you also see "explosion-type" effects, which seem to overshadow the shield effect....not sure how else to describe it...i dont really think we should be seeing any hull impact effects on phaser fire hitting shields, at least until the shields are very low or gone...but thats just my perceptions from what ive seen from the shows/movies

but thankfully, this is not final product so hopefully they will come up with a better way to display it!

tacticalzen
09-05-2009, 07:21 AM
Side note from a question from another thread I think: as of this demo, I didn't see any damage modeling. No sparks, sputters, burn marks, things falling off. Heck the explosions were all kinda the same to an extent, I didn't see multiple types where, say, the carcass of the ship remained or you can see what type of ship was just destroyed. Also, sometimes you'd get an explosion where it seemed like a much smaller ship blew up; as in, the large ship disappeared and was replaced by a smaller shuttle-level explosion. Probably randomized.

Also, I was told the system requirements would be about the same as Champions Online or a bit less. That was good to hear.

Kinjiru
09-05-2009, 07:36 AM
It's good to hear a review like this. I asked a lot of people who randomly came around what they thought. Most players were decidedly happy, but some players (like the OP) are left wanting more, because it's star trek.

It's kind of interesting to me. I think a lot of my excitement is as a gamer. To STO's credit, this wasn't really a ST demo, it was jsut a quick 5ish minute demo. ST was never about delivering a story in that time.

For me, I'm sold on combat aspects. So I too wonder, what else? If the 'else' is great, this game could be just epic. I do ask some questions to Zinc about this and they'll be shown at www.hailingfrequency.com around 8 AM Pacific tomorrow (PAX time)

Perhaps that will help some people out.


Agreed on all counts Tam. Combat looks like fun, I'm convinced. But now show us the rest of the game. How does exploration work? Or scientific discovery... archeology, medical. How is a first contact situation handled? Does archeology have any impact on the game, or does it ONLY affect how you fight?

I'm enjoying CO, the gameplay is fun, but really, all it consists of is "go here, fight that thing and those guys, go there, fight them, maybe go to a PVP arena and fight there". Which is fine when you're a superhero with no secret identity. But I'm still holding out that STO can be (*and hopefully will) be so much more than a Star Trek Combat-only game.

Azurian
09-05-2009, 01:14 PM
I don't understand what you find wrong with targeting... You haven't elaborated on it...

You know when you target an NPC, you get an aura or outline of that character. It looks stupid.

And I agree with Loekii's comments too. Ground combat just seems 1 dimensional.

ronaldheld
09-05-2009, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the first set of info.

ETSstarfleetromulan
09-05-2009, 05:54 PM
The game looks great so far, perhaps adding a bit more of a tactical perspective to it such as people hiding behind rocks and such.

Cataclysmic.Alluvium
09-05-2009, 06:35 PM
You know when you target an NPC, you get an aura or outline of that character. It looks stupid.

And I agree with Loekii's comments too. Ground combat just seems 1 dimensional.

Personally, I like that kind of effect. NWN style. :)

tacticalzen
09-06-2009, 07:19 AM
A few more notes from Day Two.


There will be upgrades to the Cryptic Engine from what they learn with Champions Online; basically STO benefits from any problems they take care of and features they add to the Engine. Good news, since it'll be anywhere from 6 months to a year's worth of learning.


The release date for next year is a hard date for them, and not a 'we're thinking of next year' (I assume barring any disasters)


There is an intention to make Starbases social hubs, not just a resupply base or whatever


Missions will be both via communications to Starfleet (I'm focusing on Fed here) and from people you talk to, say, at Starbases


I'll touch on space combat with my next post; I have a new video I'm currently uploading of the whole space section of the demo. I apologize in advance if this repeats info, haven't had a chance to read everything else.

StealthBlue
09-07-2009, 08:31 AM
I know ground combat is still being developed heck the twitter postings give evidence to that. But will ground combat be, as some have said, that static. I am putting my judgement on hold because the game isn't even in closed beta at this point. But I was hoping for some type of FPS such as taking cover, shotting from corners etc.

andrewprofit
09-07-2009, 08:49 AM
seems like the ground combat npc's need to learn to focus fire.

Krakkken
09-07-2009, 09:05 AM
Absolutly hate the white siloetting of your target. Looks so cartoonish to see your target glowing white, its so distracting. Also saw absolutly no use of terrain or any type of tactics except for just stand and shoot. Please tell me there will be some type of stratagy in this game instead of run in blasting and the best luck rolls win.

EbonyBlade
09-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Thanks for the run down on your PAX experience. The game looks awesome. It's hard to make any hard line judgements when the game isn't in Beta and the Demos are all tightly scripted. But the issues so far are so minor that I think Criptic may actually have a great game on there hands!

Rgoodfel
09-07-2009, 09:35 AM
Thank you for such a well though review. It is good to see what someone thinks about the game that has played the darn things for once :)

scottmana
09-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the run down on your PAX experience. The game looks awesome. It's hard to make any hard line judgements when the game isn't in Beta and the Demos are all tightly scripted. But the issues so far are so minor that I think Criptic may actually have a great game on there hands!

That is my impression. We have not seen a game in a finished form, we saw a demo that you could win if you were deft, blind and stupid. It was scripted with the idea that literally every person that picks up the game will be new and inexperienced. Game balancing takes time, this demo is a preview.

I have seen comments about how we should not be hard on the game as it is still to early. That is ok but don't forget that if you do nothing now and the game is horrible latter then it was because you did nothing.

Without criticizing the game or it's makers I see nothing wrong with posting disappointments and objections to how the game is being done. If someone says the ground combat looks really boring then I see nothing wrong with that. At least then a Cryptic employee can read that and perhaps comment to the developers that it could be more exciting.

The people here on these forums are after all the games biggest fans. If they don't like it then the game will never be a success.

If the "I hate this feature" comments become too common then they should be lightened with what you do like about the game. Otherwise you may forget that the game looks very promising.