I want to fail Starfleet Academy. Yep I said it.

[thefreshjedi]

So here goes: I got to thinking about depth and immersion. I know, something that I shouldn't do. I'm not sure whom really listens to my ranting and raving anymore. I think I just come here to post knowing that it's probably falling on deaf ears, but whatever. For those of you whom listen and agree, then read on.

I don't just want to login the first day of playing the game and be patted on the back and handed a ship. I would like to see some more depth than that. I actually wouldn't mind a full-on training simulator experience, as part of the normal tutorial process, which looked, acted and felt like a day (or several at the academy). I wouldn't even mind a little time blowing spit-wads in a classroom environment maybe? Okay, maybe that's a bit too much.

So I figure this: It would be nice to have an in-depth tutorial... they claim it should only take about 4 years to get through the Academy. Kirk did it in 3. So I figure lets make years into hours? Make the tutorial last at least 3 hours of real time. It should be hard, and there should be a comprehensive test in the end. Both on LCARs, and in the cockpit through a true Kobayashi Maru experience.

And what's more... I want there to be real scores for performance. And I want the chance to fail. If I fail.. then I just have to start over again.

Of course: there should be an option to bypass the experience for those of us that are impatient, or maybe if we made a character re-roll and don't want or need to go through the experience again. But there could be rewards too, like experience or potential Bridge Officers that we will meet and befriend, whom will naturally become part of our crew. Those that skip the experience.... do just that... skip the experience. They will earn it through their first mission anyway, so fine you don't want to train.. then don't, but don't harsh my groove here.

Of course If I was making the game... I'd make the tutorial (Academy) non-optional. And if you failed too many times, you would have to resort to being a fry cook on Venus. But that's me. This goes the same for you Klingons out there. There should be a detailed training scenario for both, and they should be moderately difficult at best.

Thoughts, comments, concerns, disgusts? I am deliberately stirring the pot, so this thread may get locked. So feel free to comment while you can.

-avery

[wrussandrews]

Would help to get into the flavor of things. I would make it optional, but of course people that took it may have some minor advantage for a short time (such as having advanced a little).

Since I will be playing a Klingon, I do not wish to fail. That is generally fatal and would ruin my day and hurt my feelings.

[LordDave]

....

I support this idea.

[Telinous]

Optional yes, or maybe as a additional way to increase your rank. Having tests required to unlock ranks (along with the current requirements) so as to feel like you actualy have to prove your worth each time.

[Lepton]

I don't think there is an academy in the game. You start off as an officer and in command of your own ship. Can't fail something that won't be in the game.

[DarkOrion69]

This idea has merit, but if it is click-passable I think it will be largely un-accessed content. I wager 80% of players probably do not have the attention span or patience for more than a 30 minute tutorial after reading what will probably be a 50+ page manual during a 1 hour installation/patch.

[Psaldorn]

So here goes: I got to thinking about depth and immersion...y

I like the idea.. but more so I like the Dramatic Cat link in your sig. I've not laughed so hard in ages, thanks dude.

[Lictalon]

Implementation at this point in development aside, it sounds like a great idea.
You hit the one "hot button" I think would set most off by stating it would be OPTIONAL. (I know your still going to get someone replying to your post "But I don’t wannnaaaaa..." but I digress)

Seeing as it is a mmo-RPG, that would be an excellent way to satisfy those looking for more of an RP experience versus the /pew pew/ crowd. Personally I like a blend of both, and I could see an actual "Academy" level being fun in on certain levels... just as long as it’s not necessary to repeat with every character as you see fit.

But again, it’s probably a bit late to look into it as a feasible addition to the game. Could make some great expansion material though. Right up there with ship interiors.

[thefreshjedi]

I like the idea.. but more so I like the Dramatic Cat link in your sig. I've not laughed so hard in ages, thanks dude.

Welcome, I thought it was appropriate... if they suddenly add ROLLS to the game, I'll change the dramatic cat link to that instead...maybe I can find one where he's turning his head upside down? ;)

-avery

[AloneMordakai]

Interesting idea.

I think that if they were to put the ability to "attend" Starfleet Academy, then we should have the option to go back at any time to "brush up" on an ability that we don't use very often. Kind of like jumping into a simulator to brush up on a shuttle you haven't flown in years.

That way I could return to Academy and everyone would be like "Wow! It's Captain Steve!"

and I'd say " Yes little people, I've returned. I need to figure out how to use that dang replicator in my quarters....."

[SenatorPardek]

Three hours may be a little much, but I wouldn't mind a long tutorial set up like Starfleet Academy. It'd be pretty cool. Though, seeing as we start as Lt. I dont envision it happening.

[DarkOrion69]

Given that the shows never cover Klingon Warrior Training...anyone want to venture a guess as to what a Klingon Officer School would be like?

[thefreshjedi]

Interesting idea.

I think that if they were to put the ability to "attend" Starfleet Academy, then we should have the option to go back at any time to "brush up" on an ability that we don't use very often. Kind of like jumping into a simulator to brush up on a shuttle you haven't flown in years.

That way I could return to Academy and everyone would be like "Wow! It's Captain Steve!"

and I'd say " Yes little people, I've returned. I need to figure out how to use that dang replicator in my quarters....."

Beautiful... or maybe even choose to "retire" there and be an instructor, like Kirk and Spock did in their later years.

-avery

[thefreshjedi]

Three hours may be a little much, but I wouldn't mind a long tutorial set up like Starfleet Academy. It'd be pretty cool. Though, seeing as we start as Lt. I dont envision it happening.

If we're talking opening day... or the first time you've ever played... I think 3 hours will pass like poop through a goose.. excuse the expression. But I don't think you're going to even notice it much.

-avery

[DarckKnight]

* I don't just want to login the first day of playing the game and be patted on the back and handed a ship. I would like to see some more depth than that. I actually wouldn't mind a full-on training simulator experience, as part of the normal tutorial process, which looked, acted and felt like a day (or several at the academy). I wouldn't even mind a little time blowing spit-wads in a classroom environment maybe? Okay, maybe that's a bit too much. *

I think the OP is on to something, a Lot of mmo's have a starting area to get you started with the game this would be a great away of getting involved in the game. It would not only give you the feel for combat but it would also give you the idea of what to do in Non-combat missions that Cryptic is supposed to have in the game. you like exploration and what have you.

So I Support it. Great idea. :cool:

[Psaldorn]

Given that the shows never cover Klingon Warrior Training...anyone want to venture a guess as to what a Klingon Officer School would be like?

1 - Feast
2 - Pain sticks
3 - Beating the inferiors
4 - Get Challenged by a rival House's attending officer-wannabe
5 - Salute Martok with a cup or ten of bloodwine
6 - Feast
7 - Profit
8 - Hunt 10 targs (optional)


In seriousness though, I imagine they'd teach the tactics of the Enemy du Jour, and lots of simulations (live fire Klingon to Klingon engagements would probably be their preference, but at a time of prolonged war - wasteful)

[williams.blaine]

@thefreshjedi

Your words are not falling on blind eyes... We're reading.

I like this idea for the most part. The first period of the game should be a training scenario. I don't think the academy is quite the right venue, though. Don't we start out as Lts? If we had to go through the Academy first, then we'd wind up starting as Ensigns, right?

I'd like to suggest an alternative. Not full blown Star Fleet Academy, but a Star Fleet Command Track Training course. It would be similar to the shorter training courses used in the RL military forces to teach officers the new skills they'll need at the higher ranks. In STO, it would bridge the gap between your character's previous career as an Eng, Sci, or Tac officer and their future in the command track. I don't think there's any real precedent for it in cannon, but I don't see how it would violate cannon. It could be explained as an optional Star Fleet course that every player character just happened to sign up for. Or it could be something newly instated as a prerequisite for an officer's first command.

I agree that it should be difficult. We should be able to fail. However, it shouldn't be too hard. Everyone should be able to get through it in a max of 2 or 3 trys. And, you shouldn't have to know much about Star Trek to get through it. It should be an introduction to Star Trek for those who are not familiar and a tool used to teach everyone about the various STO systems. It would be nice to give a small bonus to people who do exceptionally well (maybe give a couple prestige points for answering random ST trivia?).

[Swordopolis]

The whole Academy thing seems like a bit much, but I do support having a series of tutorials that you can choose to play IF YOU WISH if you feel your skills aren't up to snuff.

It'd be a nice way to implement the holodeck on your ship. :)

[thefreshjedi]

@thefreshjedi
Your words are not falling on blind eyes... We're reading.


I was being dramatic. :D


I like this idea for the most part. The first period of the game should be a training scenario. I don't think the academy is quite the right venue, though. Don't we start out as Lts? If we had to go through the Academy first, then we'd wind up starting as Ensigns, right?

I'd like to suggest an alternative. Not full blown Star Fleet Academy, but a Star Fleet Command Track Training course. It would be similar to the shorter training courses used in the RL military forces to teach officers the new skills they'll need at the higher ranks. In STO, it would bridge the gap between your character's previous career as an Eng, Sci, or Tac officer and their future in the command track. I don't think there's any real precedent for it in cannon, but I don't see how it would violate cannon. It could be explained as an optional Star Fleet course that every player character just happened to sign up for. Or it could be something newly instated as a prerequisite for an officer's first command.

I agree that it should be difficult. We should be able to fail. However, it shouldn't be too hard. Everyone should be able to get through it in a max of 2 or 3 trys. And, you shouldn't have to know much about Star Trek to get through it. It should be an introduction to Star Trek for those who are not familiar and a tool used to teach everyone about the various STO systems. It would be nice to give a small bonus to people who do exceptionally well (maybe give a couple prestige points for answering random ST trivia?).

Sounds great too, like optional training that persists throughout your career at Starfleet maybe? Nice.

-avery

[Rgoodfel]

I think it is a great idea. It would be like the tutiorial in CO kind of but skipable. I do admit after doing the tutorial 10 times I would really like a skip feature on it. Plus this tutorial would be so star trek.

[scholarman]

So long as I didn't have to re-do it every time I wanted to make an Alt, I think this could be a cool and enjoyable system. I can also see requiring it the first time.

One other possibility is that the system would be the subject of an expansion, and the Academy could have other functionality as well -- say, interdepartmental courses that let you learn new skills. (I'm reminded of Bashir having taken some Engineering classes.)

Besides, then Boothby could be made an NPC contact....

[Swordopolis]

Besides, then Boothby could be made an NPC contact....

According to Memory Alpha, Boothby (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Boothby) would be pushing 150 in 2409. There have been great advances in medicine and such since our time, but I somehow doubt he'll still be around during the timeline of this game. :(

[thefreshjedi]

This idea has merit, but if it is click-passable I think it will be largely un-accessed content. I wager 80% of players probably do not have the attention span or patience for more than a 30 minute tutorial after reading what will probably be a 50+ page manual during a 1 hour installation/patch.

Make the first time non-optional. Build the manual into the tutorial. Ship without instructions, just warranty card and troubleshooting instructions maybe? Save paper, save costs. Make it all virtual.

-avery

[JoJimGregory]

It would be a cool feature, and one I seem to recall discussing should be included in a Star Trek MMO way back when Perpetual opened their initial pre-development message board lo those many years ago. I didn't really follow Perpetual's development cycle and have no idea if they were planning to go that route or not. But here, in STO's current iteration, some sort of Star Fleet Academy interaction or experience would be pretty cool. I'd wager Cryptic has everything they plan to include in STO pretty well laid out week by week until launch day, so it's something they already plan on having, or would have to juggle the schedule to insert it somewhere. :cool:

[thefreshjedi]

According to Memory Alpha, Boothby (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Boothby) would be pushing 150 in 2409. There have been great advances in medicine and such since our time, but I somehow doubt he'll still be around during the timeline of this game. :(

Make him a hologram... or have his grandson working there instead.

-avery

[Swordopolis]

Make him a hologram

Given his disdain for technology, he'd probably not be very fond of that idea. :p

[scholarman]

According to Memory Alpha, Boothby (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Boothby) would be pushing 150 in 2409. There have been great advances in medicine and such since our time, but I somehow doubt he'll still be around during the timeline of this game. :(

That's assuming Martians don't have longer lifespans.

(And, after seeing all the major TOS Klingons show up on DS9, I just naturally assume that everyone can live forever in the ST universe. ;) )

[Psaldorn]

Given his disdain for technology, he'd probably not be very fond of that idea. :p

How'd you think he'd feel about Borg nanites?

Tough luck Boothby, you're a Starfleet military asset, you can't be allowed to die, please enjoy this lovely cake.

Lovely. Cake. It's cream n the middle, not Borg regenerative nanites. Not at all. Just eat it.

[indigowhale345]

Well you know, as much as this idea is interesting, a four tutorial is a bit much don't you think? Four hours is a LOOONG time. Even as an optional thing, who wants to spend that long in the tutorial? At some point you're going to bang your head against your desk or plate of tacos and wish you had bypassed it, say an hour into it.

Its still a nice idea though, but going and failing won't work either. We have to graduate, or we can't play the game at all, by rights. This is why I have a different suggestion.

Time travel mission! Somewhere in the present, well after the real tutorial, something happens and a 30th century time ship shows up to help you fix things. You have to go back in time to your academy days to say, track down clues and hints on some alien that is infiltrating it who later causes a serious issue in the present. This allows the failing of the mission indefinitely. The timeship just pulls you out if you screw up the timeline by failing an exam. And then with a bit of chastising, they send you back again to fix it right this time.

This would also give a good explanation for the time warping, stuffing 4 years into 4 hours, for example, as well as letting them break it up into say 4 episodes so its easier to manage.

[williams.blaine]

Well you know, as much as this idea is interesting, a four tutorial is a bit much don't you think? Four hours is a LOOONG time. Even as an optional thing, who wants to spend that long in the tutorial? At some point you're going to bang your head against your desk or plate of tacos and wish you had bypassed it, say an hour into it.

Its still a nice idea though, but going and failing won't work either. We have to graduate, or we can't play the game at all, by rights. This is why I have a different suggestion.

Time travel mission! Somewhere in the present, well after the real tutorial, something happens and a 30th century time ship shows up to help you fix things. You have to go back in time to your academy days to say, track down clues and hints on some alien that is infiltrating it who later causes a serious issue in the present. This allows the failing of the mission indefinitely. The timeship just pulls you out if you screw up the timeline by failing an exam. And then with a bit of chastising, they send you back again to fix it right this time.

This would also give a good explanation for the time warping, stuffing 4 years into 4 hours, for example, as well as letting them break it up into say 4 episodes so its easier to manage.


Nice... I like that. Of course that opens up the whole scenario a bit. It might not be the first mission of the game anymore. It might be more of an Episode midway to Endgame or something.

[Verkruk]

Lol, your idea gave me butterflies!!
I love the idea of actually failing the Academy.
With tests, and problems that need solutions, very cool.

Then again it could just be aftershocks from Batman Arkham Asylum! :D

[ibby1kanobi]

So here goes: I got to thinking about depth and immersion. I know, something that I shouldn't do. I'm not sure whom really listens to my ranting and raving anymore. I think I just come here to post knowing that it's probably falling on deaf ears, but whatever. For those of you whom listen and agree, then read on.

I don't just want to login the first day of playing the game and be patted on the back and handed a ship. I would like to see some more depth than that. I actually wouldn't mind a full-on training simulator experience, as part of the normal tutorial process, which looked, acted and felt like a day (or several at the academy). I wouldn't even mind a little time blowing spit-wads in a classroom environment maybe? Okay, maybe that's a bit too much.

So I figure this: It would be nice to have an in-depth tutorial... they claim it should only take about 4 years to get through the Academy. Kirk did it in 3. So I figure lets make years into hours? Make the tutorial last at least 3 hours of real time. It should be hard, and there should be a comprehensive test in the end. Both on LCARs, and in the cockpit through a true Kobayashi Maru experience.

And what's more... I want there to be real scores for performance. And I want the chance to fail. If I fail.. then I just have to start over again.

Of course: there should be an option to bypass the experience for those of us that are impatient, or maybe if we made a character re-roll and don't want or need to go through the experience again. But there could be rewards too, like experience or potential Bridge Officers that we will meet and befriend, whom will naturally become part of our crew. Those that skip the experience.... do just that... skip the experience. They will earn it through their first mission anyway, so fine you don't want to train.. then don't, but don't harsh my groove here.

Of course If I was making the game... I'd make the tutorial (Academy) non-optional. And if you failed too many times, you would have to resort to being a fry cook on Venus. But that's me. This goes the same for you Klingons out there. There should be a detailed training scenario for both, and they should be moderately difficult at best.

Thoughts, comments, concerns, disgusts? I am deliberately stirring the pot, so this thread may get locked. So feel free to comment while you can.

-avery


Nah. Sure they can implement this, but it shouldn't be forced, just optional. I won't be doing it.

[cocoa-jin]

I like it......yup, thats it...thats all I have to say.






You can stop reading now...Im not going to type a wall of text...I mean it....