A question about the value of Ship Interiors

[ZeframCochrane]

While the importance of the topic varies from person to person, there are many people who have expressed an interest in having persistent, customizable ship interiors. The vast majority (you could probably say all) of the people who have a real missionary zeal are Role Players. I am not a Role Player.

My question is this. Other than a place to socialize, hang curtains and sit in a chair, how will we use persistent ship interiors in game? How will they change/improve the experience of a non-RPer? We already have instanced interiors when we need them for missions so I can’t see how they will affect game play in that way. There are no non-NPC players on a ship other than the captain so going down to engineering to press a button because the captain told you to seems unlikely.

Is there some possibility I’m missing here? I haven’t played a ton of MMOs, mostly WoW for the last two years so I don’t know everything. Is there another game out there that has some sort of amazing integration between the player housing and the pewpew/mission/quest aspects of the game? I am genuinely interested in finding out how having an interior could make PVE/PVP play better.

[loyaltrekie]

I am genuinely interested in finding out how having an interior could make PVE/PVP play better.

I think the point just zoomed right over your head.

[beast0382]

Think of this... EvE Online has had nothing but ships since launch, not even once your charater is shown outside of a pod. Period... your in somesort of a spaceship... in space or docked inside a station. EvE has earned the nickname of spaceships online. The player base there has cought word of an expansion planned later this year or next year codenamed ambulation.... 90% of the player base is looking forward to it..... Even if your taking a break..... sitting around chatting whyle your in your negh'var or vor'cha cloaked in deep space... do you want to just sit there looking at the cloaked outline of your ship, or would you rather be looking around your bridge, personal quarters or even the mess hall?

[EremiticWolf]

Think of this... EvE Online has had nothing but ships since launch, not even once your charater is shown outside of a pod. Period... your in somesort of a spaceship... in space or docked inside a station. EvE has earned the nickname of spaceships online. The player base there has cought word of an expansion planned later this year or next year codenamed ambulation.... 90% of the player base is looking forward to it..... Even if your taking a break..... sitting around chatting whyle your in your negh'var or vor'cha cloaked in deep space... do you want to just sit there looking at the cloaked outline of your ship, or would you rather be looking around your bridge, personal quarters or even the mess hall?

I know I would like too at some point.

[slingbladez]

For all the work that would be required to do static interiors of the entire ship it would not add that much to the game play.

I will however agree that certain interior spaces can provide worthwhile game play and appeal to a broader audience. I think the ten forward on a ship could act as a mobile guild hall or a place for friends to gather when they aren't at a space station. The captains ready room could have items that you collected through your travels and you could spend your time there looking into the federation database, looking at mission details and other things during your downtime.

There could be other worthwhile game play elements inside the ship but i can't think of any, i think the majority of the ship would just be eye candy and a waste of programming time that could be spent elsewhere.

[Vuk]

Ship interiors offer nothing more than fluff. From a tactical standpoint it hampers space combat . Since this is a single player per ship game and not co-operative , there will be no boarding party combat on another players ship . The sheer complexity of what some people desire is not possible from a tech standpoint . Suffice it to say ship interiors will probably be added , more than likely an instanced event , and behave more like player housing . It's even debatable that other players will be able to come aboard your vessel , even for a social visit. Nothing more.

[ZeframCochrane]

I think the point just zoomed right over your head.

It must have because I don't even understand what you mean.

[blujester]

Ship interiors will be like the SG bases in CoH is my guess..look neet..may have some gear storage or data access panals (Memory Alpha) but in the end, they will be just eye candy and not really all that useful in a mechanical sense. RPr's will love em and will not stop asking for them till they get them. I want one too but I'm not to worried about when or if. For some people it is a big deal and I get that, but it's just not game breaking for me either way.

Bj

[loyaltrekie]

Ship interiors offer nothing more than fluff.

Funny how must people will comment on most "fluff content" as being their favorite part of their previously played titles. So calling it fluff is hardly an insult by any means[most people try to use fluff as an "insult" only reason I bring it up]

It must have because I don't even understand what you mean.

Its about providing an "auxiliary" experience; not enhancing combat mechanics.

[scholarman]

Ship interiors offer nothing more than fluff. From a tactical standpoint it hampers space combat . Since this is a single player per ship game and not co-operative , there will be no boarding party combat on another players ship . The sheer complexity of what some people desire is not possible from a tech standpoint . Suffice it to say ship interiors will probably be added , more than likely an instanced event , and behave more like player housing . It's even debatable that other players will be able to come aboard your vessel , even for a social visit. Nothing more.

We already know that some missions will take your boarding party to other peoples' ships. I can definitely see episodes where some threat beams onto your ship and you have to take to the corridors to deal with it. (In fact, I have seen it -- dozens of times, on every show with the Star Trek name on it. ;) ). That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to.

Further, having a customized ship interior opens the possibility of having unique devices you can add to your ship, which in turn may give you additional functionality. The possibility of training with your bridge crew in a holodeck has already been raised. There could also be specialized systems that grant additional abilities to your starship, but which need to be 'slotted' someplace. Consider the Defiant's cloaking device -- that took up a full bridge station on the Defiant's bridge. If we got a similar thing (never say never) it might consume one of our bridge stations, giving us cloaking ability at the cost of one of our bridge officer slots.

Further x2, it brings us into the last element of the 'infinite customization' that Cryptic uses as its bread and butter. I can redo the saucer, secondary hull, pylons and nacelles of my starship, all without gameplay impact. However, doing so will invest me personally in the ship. Being able to set the appearance of my Captain's chair, redesignating what crew member does what function on my bridge and even changing the color of the carpet won't make my ship fly faster or shoot more torpedos, but it'll be mine. That increase in personal investment will only improve my personal experience.

And in giving me a personal experience, Cryptic is one step closer to keeping my ~15 a month. :)

[Mozcol]

As long as i have decent storage space on my ship or at a Starbase at the onset of the game for later use oe to horde stuff for sale at the AH( assuming there is an AH) I'm happy.

[ZeframCochrane]

Ship interiors offer nothing more than fluff. From a tactical standpoint it hampers space combat . Since this is a single player per ship game and not co-operative , there will be no boarding party combat on another players ship . The sheer complexity of what some people desire is not possible from a tech standpoint . Suffice it to say ship interiors will probably be added , more than likely an instanced event , and behave more like player housing . It's even debatable that other players will be able to come aboard your vessel , even for a social visit. Nothing more.

Actually that's on thing I hadn't thought of, boarding someone's ship in PVP. The captain could lead a n NPC boarding party. Smashing statues, stealing the ship's dedication plaque, burning curtains. But with the speed of combat that's highly unlikely I guess.

[slingbladez]

Funny how must people will comment on most "fluff content" as being their favorite part of their previously played titles. So calling it fluff is hardly an insult by any means[most people try to use fluff as an "insult" only reason I bring it up]

Its about providing an "auxiliary" experience; not enhancing combat mechanics.


If you just want fluff of being able to walk around the ship without actual worthwhile gameplay mechanics then don't ask for interiors for players ship as that is just a waste of time. They could compromise by having static interiors on NPC ships docked at various starbases allowing players the option of walking around ship interiors without all the extra time and effort to make it available for every player ship.

[ZeframCochrane]

We already know that some missions will take your boarding party to other peoples' ships. I can definitely see episodes where some threat beams onto your ship and you have to take to the corridors to deal with it. (In fact, I have seen it -- dozens of times, on every show with the Star Trek name on it. ;) ). That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to.

Further, having a customized ship interior opens the possibility of having unique devices you can add to your ship, which in turn may give you additional functionality. The possibility of training with your bridge crew in a holodeck has already been raised. There could also be specialized systems that grant additional abilities to your starship, but which need to be 'slotted' someplace. Consider the Defiant's cloaking device -- that took up a full bridge station on the Defiant's bridge. If we got a similar thing (never say never) it might consume one of our bridge stations, giving us cloaking ability at the cost of one of our bridge officer slots.


That sounds cool but can't all that be instanced or treated as a skill?

I am really warming up to the idea of ransacking another captain's ship in PVP or repulsing an attack from inside my own ship but it doesn't seem like something that will happen with the way combat is going.

[jason24]

If/when they do implement ship interiors i hope there will be randon crew walking around the ship. I would hate to have this feature if i am the only one walking around.

[chris1701]

Think of this... EvE Online has had nothing but ships since launch, not even once your charater is shown outside of a pod. Period... your in somesort of a spaceship... in space or docked inside a station. EvE has earned the nickname of spaceships online. The player base there has cought word of an expansion planned later this year or next year codenamed ambulation.... 90% of the player base is looking forward to it..... Even if your taking a break..... sitting around chatting whyle your in your negh'var or vor'cha cloaked in deep space... do you want to just sit there looking at the cloaked outline of your ship, or would you rather be looking around your bridge, personal quarters or even the mess hall?

Ambulation in EVE has been around for years, CCP is extremely good at the Soon™, takes them ages to get anything done.

[loyaltrekie]

Ambulation in EVE has been around for years, CCP is extremely good at the Soon™, takes them ages to get anything done.

Considering they don't charge me for there expansions; like majority of MMO's do; I won't bash them.

[CaptainFreeFall]

I really dont understand people when they say they dont want something that doesn't have a purpose too be honest if you're playing a game thats an RPG which it is. undeniably.
You could simply play this game without textures and find it enjoyable, which is pretty sad.

To walk around a ship, with other NPC crew that may or may not react to you gives the player more of an immersion feeling -more of a 'i'm doing this for a reason' factor.

Also;
As long as i have decent storage space on my ship or at a Starbase at the onset of the game for later use oe to horde stuff for sale at the AH( assuming there is an AH) I'm happy.

I ****ing wish people would stop comparing this to world of warcraft. its a dead dog. if you want something like Warcraft go play the stupid game.

[loyaltrekie]

I ****ing wish people would stop comparing this to world of warcraft. its a dead dog. if you want something like Warcraft go play the stupid game.

That is such a "stupid statement". There will always be(and should be comparisons) to relevant titles; WoW and Eve are perfect examples of legitimate comparisons when done correctly; complaining about it is just silly. I don't quite understand how you can get "angry" over people comparing two things that share stuff in common. WoW capitalizing on the "casual market" and being the current leader is of course going to lead to lots of comparisons; and Eve being the other top "space mmo" out right now will also lead to comparisons.

[Zepath]

While I personally don't care about ship interiors ... I think we're too quick to dismiss this as not important in the game.

Essentially what people are asking for is "player housing", and this is huge for A LOT of people.

What I'm saying is ... I personally wouldn't use the ship's interiors enough to warrant putting them in the game. But then, the only time I've really ever been into players housing was in LotR and Horizons .... and then only because you could craft your own furniture, craft your own crafting work-stations for your home, store stuff in your home (it was your vault in both games), and meet people / form groups in your home.

But clearly this needs to be a priority for Cryptic after launch.

Its no more important to me, than my desire to craft is to others, or someone's desire to explore is to the hardened PvP player. But to those that want them its huge.

After all, its not a single aspect of a game that makes its successful, its the culmination of many gaming aspects that bring many people to the game that makes it successful.

And yes, if they are going to have ship interiors, they have to have crew walking around. No one is interested in walking the halls of a ghost ship.

[slingbladez]

I really dont understand people when they say they dont want something that doesn't have a purpose too be honest if you're playing a game thats an RPG which it is.

I don't understand people who expect cryptic to expend a large amount of time/resources implementing a system that doesn't really add to the gameplay.

They could compromise by having static interiors on NPC ships docked at various starbases allowing players the option of walking the interiors of those ships and possibly interacting with the crew. This option would probably require alot less time/resources to implement than a static interior on every player ship and would have similar results.

[CaptainFreeFall]

That is such a "stupid statement". There will always be(and should be comparisons) to relevant titles; WoW and Eve are perfect examples of legitimate comparisons when done correctly; complaining about it is just silly. I don't quite understand how you can get "angry" over people comparing two things that share stuff in common. WoW capitalizing on the "casual market" and being the current leader is of course going to lead to lots of comparisons; and Eve being the other top "space mmo" out right now will also lead to comparisons.

Yes, yes they are the market leaders but no their shouldnt be a comparison because Star trek is Star trek, it is not ****** looking elves or Draenei.

My point is and always is when people compare them they loose sight of the content of the game hense my other statement/question.

Would you play the game if it didnt have textures?


I don't understand people who expect cryptic to expend a large amount of time/resources implementing a system that doesn't really add to the gameplay.

They could compromise by having static interiors on NPC ships docked at various starbases allowing players the option of walking the interiors of those ships and possibly interacting with the crew. This option would probably require alot less time/resources to implement than a static interior on every player ship and would have similar results.

Because its a game its supposed to bring people enjoyment of immersion which is what a RPG is not the cheap feeling of saying that you can 'pwn' someone or if you're the richest.

[ZeframCochrane]

I really dont understand people when they say they dont want something that doesn't have a purpose too be honest if you're playing a game thats an RPG which it is. undeniably.
You could simply play this game without textures and find it enjoyable, which is pretty sad.

You can play the game for whatever reason you want. If you play just to watch the load screen that's fine with me. I'm just asking if there is anything that a ship's interior might possibly add to game play other than what someone has called an "auxiliary" experience.

I ****ing wish people would stop comparing this to world of warcraft. its a dead dog. if you want something like Warcraft go play the stupid game.

Sorry but that's my only point of comparison. I played EVE for the 10 day trial and that's about it. I asked for examples of other games that have been able to integrate player housing more fully into the game and not just as a place to hang your hat.

[andrewprofit]

While the importance of the topic varies from person to person, there are many people who have expressed an interest in having persistent, customizable ship interiors. The vast majority (you could probably say all) of the people who have a real missionary zeal are Role Players. I am not a Role Player.

My question is this. Other than a place to socialize, hang curtains and sit in a chair, how will we use persistent ship interiors in game? How will they change/improve the experience of a non-RPer? We already have instanced interiors when we need them for missions so I can’t see how they will affect game play in that way. There are no non-NPC players on a ship other than the captain so going down to engineering to press a button because the captain told you to seems unlikely.

Is there some possibility I’m missing here? I haven’t played a ton of MMOs, mostly WoW for the last two years so I don’t know everything. Is there another game out there that has some sort of amazing integration between the player housing and the pewpew/mission/quest aspects of the game? I am genuinely interested in finding out how having an interior could make PVE/PVP play better.

I would like the interiors to be very detailed to due justice to all the efforts that have been made by people in the IP. The best use of those interiors will be for missions and for fighting. The devs already said they have interiors within missions. I think it would be a great minigame to see fighting on all the hundreds of ships in the IP capturing them and defending them.

[Zepath]

As I just posted, and got scrolled into non-existence.

Player housing! That's what this debate is about, and player housing is huge for a lot of people. Just because you aren't interested in it, doesn't mean you should dismiss it.

The more people brought into the game, the more we all benefit regardless of our given choice of game-play.

[loyaltrekie]

Yes, yes they are the market leaders but no their shouldnt be a comparison because Star trek is Star trek, it is not ****** looking elves or Draenei.


Your statement is still flawed; the IP its modeled after has little to do with the majority of discussion when it comes to MMO mechanics. What your essentially saying is rather then compare MMO mechanics we should compare just Trek games since they are Trek regardless of the genre?

[slingbladez]

As I just posted, and got scrolled into non-existence.

Player housing! That's what this debate is about, and player housing is huge for a lot of people. Just because you aren't interested in it, doesn't mean you should dismiss it.

The more people brought into the game, the more we all benefit regardless of our given choice of game-play.

What if they only do the captains chambers and/or quarters as a player house? This would require a lot less time/resources than using the entire ship as a player house.

[CaptainFreeFall]

Your statement is still flawed; the IP its modeled after has little to do with the majority of discussion when it comes to MMO mechanics. What your essentially saying is rather then compare MMO mechanics we should compare just Trek games since they are Trek regardless of the genre?

You arnt getting my point.
Its not about the mechanics - i don't play a game because i want to succeed at the mechanics better than anyone else.
I play a game or any game for that fact because it provides a certain level of immersion.

The debate was never about the mechanics of STO, it was the emotional benefit of the player to have access to the insides of their own ship, for their own pleasure to provide the illusion that they have a Bridge, or a ready room , actual models for bridge crew instead of pictures on a screen.


What if they only do the captains chambers and/or quarters as a player house? This would require a lot less time/resources than using the entire ship as a player house.


Hey aslong as i have a bridge i'm fine! i just think anything more would be monumental and would not have been done before.

I hate people who play these kinds of things purely to 'win' when its an open ended game - its the same reason and debate people want exploration in this not just combat because of the immersion factor.

Immersion is key.

[Loekii]

Is there some possibility I’m missing here? I haven’t played a ton of MMOs, mostly WoW for the last two years so I don’t know everything. Is there another game out there that has some sort of amazing integration between the player housing and the pewpew/mission/quest aspects of the game? I am genuinely interested in finding out how having an interior could make PVE/PVP play better.

Personal ship interiors, in STO, opens up a whole new area to have Content.

It turns your ship interior, into a venue for new content (just like in the TV Series):

Ground Combat Scenarios

Repel Borders
Defend the Embassidor
Find the Spy

'Sabatoque' Scenarios
What as been tampered with
Strange Sickness outbreak

Crafting stations on ship
Different venue for NPC Interaction


So when they add Ship Interiors, it offers them a new way to add some content to the game.

[Vuk]

We already know that some missions will take your boarding party to other peoples' ships.Absolutely incorrect , you go within an instanced part of a mission. You will never set foot on another players ship to do a mission, an instanced AI ship, yes. I can definitely see episodes where some threat beams onto your ship and you have to take to the corridors to deal with it. (In fact, I have seen it -- dozens of times, on every show with the Star Trek name on it. ;) ). That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to. Again eposidic gameplay , where you are instanced into an environment.

Further, having a customized ship interior opens the possibility of having unique devices you can add to your ship, which in turn may give you additional functionality. The possibility of training with your bridge crew in a holodeck has already been raised. Easily handled as instanced elements that can be requested by hitting a gameplay option, not really an interior .There could also be specialized systems that grant additional abilities to your starship, but which need to be 'slotted' someplace. Consider the Defiant's cloaking device -- that took up a full bridge station on the Defiant's bridge. They've already taken that into consideration , without adding interiors , besides cloaking devices for Federation vessels is epsodic content related to a player mission. If we got a similar thing (never say never) it might consume one of our bridge stations, giving us cloaking ability at the cost of one of our bridge officer slots.

Further x2, it brings us into the last element of the 'infinite customization' that Cryptic uses as its bread and butter. I can redo the saucer, secondary hull, pylons and nacelles of my starship, all without gameplay impact. However, doing so will invest me personally in the ship. You don't really need ships interiors to do this. Being able to set the appearance of my Captain's chair, redesignating what crew member does what function on my bridge and even changing the color of the carpet won't make my ship fly faster or shoot more torpedos, but it'll be mine. That increase in personal investment will only improve my personal experience. Again ships interiors are really not needed to do any of these events. You're contect elemnts already in game and connecting them to ships interiors , to justify the need the ship interior.

And in giving me a personal experience, Cryptic is one step closer to keeping my ~15 a month. :)

A great many people play Eve for longer periods without ship interior and have never stated that was a reason for leaving Eve.

[Kudos17]

I think the ship interiors will give you the sence that you are not this ship avatar flying in space, but an actual charater in a ship.

I would bet that given ship interiors everyone would enjoy them, even the people who say they are not worth the effort. It will just make the game better. It would be great to show other captains the interior of my own ship. Tell them storys about missions where I recieved this artifact. When I am warping to another area of space, walking around engineering would be 100% better than staring at the back of my ship.

[Vuk]

Player housing! That's what this debate is about, and player housing is huge for a lot of people. Just because you aren't interested in it, doesn't mean you should dismiss it.

The more people brought into the game, the more we all benefit regardless of our given choice of game-play.

I agree absolutely , I also believe peoples expectation and what's possible are a bit exagerated.

[Zepath]

What if they only do the captains chambers and/or quarters as a player house? This would require a lot less time/resources than using the entire ship as a player house.

It doesn't matter to me what they do. My comment wasn't about how they should do it, or if they should do it at all ... my point merely was, people need to stop dismissing other people's interests other aspects of the game other than combat and exploration.

Just because a vocal minority in these forums want combat, doesn't mean the silent majority out there (who have lives and can't be bothered to following these forums day in and day out), aren't in fact looking for things other than combat in a Star Trek game.

Now, I'm not putting down people who live in this forum ... I'm one of em, I'm logged in and scanning topics on my side machine here, as I code and do work on my main machine.

Still, we are a very small sampling of the customers who will eventually play this game ... and a lot of them couldn't give a damn about whether this game has combat or not ... they are drawn for other reasons, with their own expectations.

I can only hope Cryptic has done its due diligence with its marketing team and knows what its potential customer base (long term customer base) is looking for from this game.

[Telinous]

I think the ship interiors will give you the sence that you are not this ship avatar flying in space, but an actual charater in a ship.

I would bet that given ship interiors everyone would enjoy them, even the people who say they are not worth the effort. It will just make the game better. It would be great to show other captains the interior of my own ship. Tell them storys about missions where I recieved this artifact. When I am warping to another area of space, walking around engineering would be 100% better than staring at the back of my ship.

Exactly, At least a bridge and ready room/ captains quarters would be all that would be required for most.

Now as for benefits, in FFXI your Mog house furnishings give various enhancments and by changing what furnishings you use you receive diffrent effects, as well as several quests/missions taking place inside them partly. Now while all this can be done by skills or bridge officers the same could be said of everything in a game, there is always other ways to do it, adding items that you could use to decorate and recieve beneficial effects from is mearly a reason to encourage more and more players to become involved with a interior design. Basicly not only RPers but alot of people in general would want it for the customization. While others (to be fair probably a same sized group) would not. However by adding content for interiors or PVE or PVP you are not taking away from any of the other groups but expanding the variety of players the game serves.

[ZeframCochrane]

It doesn't matter to me what they do. My comment wasn't about how they should do it, or if they should do it at all ... my point merely was, people need to stop dismissing other people's interests other aspects of the game other than combat and exploration.

Just because a vocal minority in these forums want combat, doesn't mean the silent majority out there (who have lives and can't be bothered to following these forums day in and day out), aren't in fact looking for things other than combat in a Star Trek game.

Now, I'm not putting down people who live in this forum ... I'm one of em, I'm logged in and scanning topics on my side machine here, as I code and do work on my main machine.

Still, we are a very small sampling of the customers who will eventually play this game ... and a lot of them couldn't give a damn about whether this game has combat or not ... they are drawn for other reasons, with their own expectations.

I can only hope Cryptic has done its due diligence with its marketing team and knows what its potential customer base (long term customer base) is looking for from this game.

I'm not trying to start a flame war because I've read a few of your posts on the forums and you seem level headed enough but I've got to ask. Do you really think it will only be a minority of players who's main motivation to play STO is combat?

The discussion has come back around to all the benefits of interiors. I don't question some people find them very important and most people have at least a passing interest. My question is how can interiors add to what I think most people are comming to STO for which is combat and exploration.

Loekii posted a few really good ideas on what can be done inside the ship but I don't see how most of those can't be instanced like Cryptic is planning to do now with interiors.

[Kinjiru]

Personal ship interiors, in STO, opens up a whole new area to have Content.

It turns your ship interior, into a venue for new content (just like in the TV Series):

Ground Combat Scenarios

Repel Borders
Defend the Embassidor
Find the Spy

'Sabatoque' Scenarios
What as been tampered with
Strange Sickness outbreak

Crafting stations on ship
Different venue for NPC Interaction


So when they add Ship Interiors, it offers them a new way to add some content to the game.

Agreed. Also, I think people are overestimating the required resources for interiors as a whole. I sincerely doubt that we'll ever see every nook and/or cranny of our assorted ships modeled. We'll most likely get specific areas, like our Bridge, Sick Bay, Engineering, Captain's Ready Room, Captain's Quarters, maybe a rec area or a lounge like Ten Forward, a Shuttle Bay, Transporter Room and a couple of corridors. But will we see and be able to enter Atmospheric Integrity Conduit #2? No way. There's simply no need. :)

[Zepath]

I'm not trying to start a flame war because I've read a few of your posts on the forums and you seem level headed enough but I've got to ask. Do you really think it will only be a minority of players who's main motivation to play STO is combat?

That's not what I said ... I said we're a small representation of the customer base that will eventually play this game.

I don't know how many registered forum users there are in these forums, but I submit its only a minuscule number in comparison to the 500K subscribers number people have thrown about ... and I personally suspect this game will sell 1M copies or more.

We just don't know what the bulk of the potential customers watching this game's progress is looking for, or what the guy who sees the box on the shelf will expect.

Regardless, we need to stop dismissing each others "wants" in the game. At this point, nothing we discuss here is going to effect the product we'll see at launch anyway. This game is going into closed beta in a few weeks ... its design is done.

So what does anyone care if the OP wants this or that ... he's simply discussing what is important to him/her.

[CaptainFreeFall]

Agreed. Also, I think people are overestimating the required resources for interiors as a whole. I sincerely doubt that we'll ever see every nook and/or cranny of our assorted ships modeled. We'll most likely get specific areas, like our Bridge, Sick Bay, Engineering, Captain's Ready Room, Captain's Quarters, maybe a rec area or a lounge like Ten Forward, a Shuttle Bay, Transporter Room and a couple of corridors. But will we see and be able to enter Atmospheric Integrity Conduit #2? No way. There's simply no need. :)

This and Loekll's statement to back it up is how it should be :D

[ZeframCochrane]

That's not what I said ... I said we're a small representation of the customer base that will eventually play this game.

I don't know how many registered forum users there are in these forums, but I submit its only a minuscule number in comparison to the 500K subscribers number people have thrown about ... and I personally suspect this game will sell 1M copies or more.

We just don't know what the bulk of the potential customers watching this game's progress is looking for, or what the guy who sees the box on the shelf will expect.

Fair enough. We really don't know what the majority of people who end up being long term subscibers to STO want out of the game. I would suspect that Cryptic has a good idea though.

Regardless, we need to stop dismissing each others "wants" in the game. At this point, nothing we discuss here is going to effect the product we'll see at launch anyway. This game is going into closed beta in a few weeks ... its design is done.

Whatever it has become, I did not intend for this thread to be dismissive of others wants. Instead my question was and still is, what else can be done with interiors. Is there anything that can make interiors more than a passing thought to someone like me who is more interested in exploration and Pew Pew.

So what does anyone care if the OP wants this or that ... he's simply discussing what is important to him/her.

Like you said, the game is practically in the box. But everyone is talking about future expansions. If you think about it, that is where the people who plat STO are alot more likely toi be heard. For all the market research that can be done STO is still built on speculation. Once the game is being played, devs will get a much better understanding of what people want and what will bring them back month after month.

[JoeTheEngineer]

Personal ship interiors are a key feature of STO that I want to see added in an expansion or content update.

They are important to me because they add immersion, and additional gameplay features. They should not be static interiors, they should have SOME functionality, blinking lights, opening doors, things like that. And defintely have NPC crewman walking around to make it seem alive. Additional gameplay elements include:


Sociallizing
Housing
RPing
Boarding parties
Player crews
Diplomatic meetings
Fixing problems in Engineering



They were pretty cool to have in SWG. Ship interiors were a part of several ships in that game, and it worked just fine, and many players liked it.

I think ship interiors add another layer of depth and long-term gaming life to STO. Without ship interiors, space gameplay will seem a lot more flat and one-dimensional. Ship interiors expand upon space gameplay.

Ship interiors are highly valuable to me in STO. And face it, nearly everyone who plays STO longer than a day is a Role Player. What else are you doing playing a MMORPG set in the Star Trek universe? You are a captain of a starship in the Federation. You are ROLE PLAYING. FACE IT. Ship interiors help you in STO to enjoy the game more.

[Swordopolis]

a bridge and ready room/captains quarters

This would be just fine with me. :)

[Zepath]

Personal ship interiors are a key feature of STO that I want to see added in an expansion or content update.

They are important to me because they add immersion, and additional gameplay features. They should not be static interiors, they should have SOME functionality, blinking lights, opening doors, things like that. And defintely have NPC crewman walking around to make it seem alive. Additional gameplay elements include:


Sociallizing
Housing
RPing
Boarding parties
Player crews
Diplomatic meetings
Fixing problems in Engineering



They were pretty cool to have in SWG. Ship interiors were a part of several ships in that game, and it worked just fine, and many players liked it.

I think ship interiors add another layer of depth and long-term gaming life to STO. Without ship interiors, space gameplay will seem a lot more flat and one-dimensional. Ship interiors expand upon space gameplay.

Ship interiors are highly valuable to me in STO. And face it, nearly everyone who plays STO longer than a day is a Role Player. What else are you doing playing a MMORPG set in the Star Trek universe? You are a captain of a starship in the Federation. You are ROLE PLAYING. FACE IT. Ship interiors help you in STO to enjoy the game more.

Again, while I don't care about ship interiors ... I wish they had just made static, reusable, interiors for each ship class, that could not be modified, just so this debate wasn't protracted. I'm sure they could have done that fairly easy.

But I also understand their decision no to, as any work they did towards static interiors would be completely wasted when they came out with the interiors people seem to really want.

[Tain]

Personal ship interiors, in STO, opens up a whole new area to have Content.

It turns your ship interior, into a venue for new content (just like in the TV Series):

Ground Combat Scenarios

Repel Borders
Defend the Embassidor
Find the Spy

'Sabatoque' Scenarios
What as been tampered with
Strange Sickness outbreak

Crafting stations on ship
Different venue for NPC Interaction


So when they add Ship Interiors, it offers them a new way to add some content to the game.

This is what I am interested in too. Even just having a few rooms opens up a vast array of new mission and setting possibilities.

[LordDrakonis]

This is what I am interested in too. Even just having a few rooms opens up a vast array of new mission and setting possibilities.

i agree we need some like this i am a RPler ;) you see

[scholarman]

Absolutely incorrect , you go within an instanced part of a mission. You will never set foot on another players ship to do a mission, an instanced AI ship, yes.

The form that takes isn't yet known -- and we do know that there are PvP boarding parties. Right now they're taking the form of 'off-camera statistics' instead of on-camera gameplay, but for some folks the on-camera experience would be very important to move toward.

That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to. Again eposidic gameplay , where you are instanced into an environment.

That 'episodic gameplay' instance is on your own ship. The fact that your ship would be an instanced environment doesn't change the fact that it's on your ship, and it would be both cool and additionally immersive if that environment reflected your choices instead of default choices.

The possibility of training with your bridge crew in a holodeck has already been raised. Easily handled as instanced elements that can be requested by hitting a gameplay option, not really an interior .

...so... you're saying the holodeck is in your menu bar, not in your ship?

I honestly don't know why you're making an artificial distinction between 'instances' and going into your ship to do shipboard things, but claiming those things are instances and therefore don't need to be interior... well, makes no sense to me. If I go to my holodeck and train with my bridge crew, and it reflects that in my gameplay experience, it doesn't matter to me if the content is instanced -- I'm still inside my ship on my holodeck doing things.

There could also be specialized systems that grant additional abilities to your starship, but which need to be 'slotted' someplace. Consider the Defiant's cloaking device -- that took up a full bridge station on the Defiant's bridge. They've already taken that into consideration , without adding interiors , besides cloaking devices for Federation vessels is epsodic content related to a player mission.

Well, first off we don't know how they're doing these things as yet. Secondly, you don't know that cloaking devices will only be for specific missions yet -- there may be a means of getting one somewhere in the mission chain. As I said, never say never. Thirdly... the fact that there are ways to accomplish the gameplay effect of interior reconfiguration without actually incorporating interior reconfiguration A) doesn't invalidate the desire to use interior reconfiguration as the method for doing it, and B) doesn't change the fact that doing interior reconfiguration as part of these mechanisms would be an immersive and enjoyable occupation for a good number of the players of the game.

The same kind of people, I would add, who throw monumental amounts of time into developing detailed Superbases in City of Heroes. Or their Houses in Ultima Online. Or the freakin' Sims for that matter. ;)

Further x2, it brings us into the last element of the 'infinite customization' that Cryptic uses as its bread and butter. I can redo the saucer, secondary hull, pylons and nacelles of my starship, all without gameplay impact. However, doing so will invest me personally in the ship.You don't really need ships interiors to do this.

I... don't, that's true. I don't need anything beyond food, shelter, oxygen and my wife's happiness. However, this would serve to reinforce Cryptic's core brand identification (customization options) and increase immersion, whether I need it or not.

It's generally not a great idea to ascribe other peoples' needs or motivations to them. ;)

And the money quote:

A great many people play Eve for longer periods without ship interior and have never stated that was a reason for leaving Eve.

First off, EVE ain't Star Trek Online, and Star Trek Online isn't going to try to be EVE -- in much the same way Star Frontiers didn't try to be Traveller or Serenity didn't try to be Space Rangers. They are very different games with different expectations and different core elements. The fact they're both set in space is very minor. If I play a Serenity MMO somewhere along the line, I'll expect it to have Western conventions and a ramshackle ship interior. If I play a Babylon 5 MMO I'll expect there to be on-station homeless alongside moments of sudden unexpected beauty. When I play Star Trek Online I sort of expect there to be a Captain's Chair somewhere in the equation. ;)

Secondly -- I tried out an EVE trial account. And I didn't then bother to buy the game because doing nothing that actually involved my character quickly divorced me from the proceedings. Which, as I recall, was also the full-on doom of Auto Assault. While there are a good number of people who do happily play EVE without ground encounters or ship interiors, there are also lots of folks for whom this is a turnoff. And as near as I can tell, Cryptic wants those folks to play STO too.

Your counterarguments seem to reduce to the same basic statement: "you don't need interiors to get the game effect implied by interiors." Which, if all this game was, potentially, was a collection of game effects would be true. But it's not just a collection of game effects. It is --as I've said elsewhere -- an overall experience, and the parts of the experience that are important to some folks are different than others. For a lot of people, Star Trek is more than just the exterior of a starship and a five man team shooting phasers on a planet. It's a sense of place, of 'home.' The Enterprise was familiar to us -- as much a character as McCoy or LaForge. And while we accept that we won't be getting those senses of the interior or the different function at game launch -- and yes we will live without them -- they come across as a tremendous gap and a weakness in our experience of the game.

Does that, at the least, make sense?

[ExpendableCrewman]

I beleive ship interiors will improve player experience and YES I also agree that even the people who say they dont want/need them will also enjoy interiors once they come out. Even if there was only 4 or 5 rooms in each ship that were accessible, even THAT is better than nothing, or should I say better than staring at the behind of your ship for hours on end.

It would b niic to be able to walk around your ship as you are warping from one area to another, or sit in your ready room or quarters and watch the stars shoot by as you are traveling at high warp. I would rather do one of these things than stare at my small teeny tiny little ship on a big squiggly lined filled warp map.

Staring at a warp map all day every time I had to go somewhere wouldnt b too bad I guess.. but.....it would be nice if I had an entire ship interior to walk around in while I waited and if we wanted to look at the warp map maybe we could have a console on the bridge that would bring up the warp map screen whenver we clicked on it???

All in all Interiors DO immerse players in games, it makes you feel like youre there, more so than if you had a building or ship you couldnt get into at all. It adds to the illusion that you really are in the game.<To borrow some words from previous posters>

It also adds a familiararity to the game that makes it more personal for the subscriber/player who will keep playing the game and paying his subscription fee every month. Why? because the game feels more like it is his, and more of a connection is made.

[slingbladez]

Personal ship interiors are a key feature of STO that I want to see added in an expansion or content update.

They are important to me because they add immersion, and additional gameplay features. They should not be static interiors, they should have SOME functionality, blinking lights, opening doors, things like that. And defintely have NPC crewman walking around to make it seem alive. Additional gameplay elements include:


Sociallizing
Housing
RPing
Boarding parties
Player crews
Diplomatic meetings
Fixing problems in Engineering




They could create a static Ten forward to take care of socializing
They could have Captain ready room and or Quarters for housing
For boarding parties they could simply make an instance of all relevant areas for that episode.
I doubt player crews will ever happen so that is a moot point for now.
Diplomatic meetings could happen in the observation lounge or ten forward
The engineer fixes problems in engineering, not the captain.

They only need to create a static Ten Forward, Captains ready room/quarters, Observation room in order to fulfill most of your needs. Other then that they could do instanced parts of your ship for episodes/missions.

[JoeTheEngineer]

They could create a static Ten forward to take care of socializing
They could have Captain ready room and or Quarters for housing
For boarding parties they could simply make an instance of all relevant areas for that episode.
I doubt player crews will ever happen so that is a moot point for now.
Diplomatic meetings could happen in the observation lounge or ten forward
The engineer fixes problems in engineering, not the captain.

They only need to create a static Ten Forward, Captains ready room/quarters, Observation room in order to fulfill most of your needs. Other then that they could do instanced parts of your ship for episodes/missions.

No, that would hurt immersion if all the rooms were instanced. Gotta have corridors and turbolifts.

[CaptainFreeFall]

it would be very nice if the interior of the ship was like Elite Force1/2.
..

hang on a minute, that content was pretty pointless but it worked VERY well :s

[coldheartzero]

We already know that some missions will take your boarding party to other peoples' ships. I can definitely see episodes where some threat beams onto your ship and you have to take to the corridors to deal with it. (In fact, I have seen it -- dozens of times, on every show with the Star Trek name on it. ;) ). That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to.

Further, having a customized ship interior opens the possibility of having unique devices you can add to your ship, which in turn may give you additional functionality. The possibility of training with your bridge crew in a holodeck has already been raised. There could also be specialized systems that grant additional abilities to your starship, but which need to be 'slotted' someplace. Consider the Defiant's cloaking device -- that took up a full bridge station on the Defiant's bridge. If we got a similar thing (never say never) it might consume one of our bridge stations, giving us cloaking ability at the cost of one of our bridge officer slots.

Further x2, it brings us into the last element of the 'infinite customization' that Cryptic uses as its bread and butter. I can redo the saucer, secondary hull, pylons and nacelles of my starship, all without gameplay impact. However, doing so will invest me personally in the ship. Being able to set the appearance of my Captain's chair, redesignating what crew member does what function on my bridge and even changing the color of the carpet won't make my ship fly faster or shoot more torpedos, but it'll be mine. That increase in personal investment will only improve my personal experience.

And in giving me a personal experience, Cryptic is one step closer to keeping my ~15 a month. :)


This man/woman/thing speaks truth.

[Vuk]

[/color]

The form that takes isn't yet known -- and we do know that there are PvP boarding parties. Right now they're taking the form of 'off-camera statistics' instead of on-camera gameplay, but for some folks the on-camera experience would be very important to move toward.

We do and it's not PvP , it'll be PvE . PvP ground combat hasn't been revealed completely , so you are making a might long reach with your statement It's actually in the trailer . Currently there are no games that have gameplay that you describe , and frankly probabluy won't for a long time to come.


That 'episodic gameplay' instance is on your own ship. The fact that your ship would be an instanced environment doesn't change the fact that it's on your ship, and it would be both cool and additionally immersive if that environment reflected your choices instead of default choices.

It won't be on your own , ship it'll a generic instance that you'll pop into. There is a huge difference.



...so... you're saying the holodeck is in your menu bar, not in your ship?

Yes

I honestly don't know why you're making an artificial distinction between 'instances' and going into your ship to do shipboard things, but claiming those things are instances and therefore don't need to be interior... well, makes no sense to me. If I go to my holodeck and train with my bridge crew, and it reflects that in my gameplay experience, it doesn't matter to me if the content is instanced -- I'm still inside my ship on my holodeck doing things.

There is a huge difference between gameplay in a persistant world and an instanced one, as you shall see. I'm not saying one is better or worse , just very different and different in what's possible.



Well, first off we don't know how they're doing these things as yet. Secondly, you don't know that cloaking devices will only be for specific missions yet -- there may be a means of getting one somewhere in the mission chain. Yes we do , Zinc has stated as much. As I said, never say never. Thirdly... the fact that there are ways to accomplish the gameplay effect of interior reconfiguration without actually incorporating interior reconfiguration A) doesn't invalidate the desire to use interior reconfiguration as the method for doing it, and B) doesn't change the fact that doing interior reconfiguration as part of these mechanisms would be an immersive and enjoyable occupation for a good number of the players of the game.



The same kind of people, I would add, who throw monumental amounts of time into developing detailed Superbases in City of Heroes. Or their Houses in Ultima Online. Or the freakin' Sims for that matter. ;)



I... don't, that's true. I don't need anything beyond food, shelter, oxygen and my wife's happiness. However, this would serve to reinforce Cryptic's core brand identification (customization options) and increase immersion, whether I need it or not.

It's generally not a great idea to ascribe other peoples' needs or motivations to them. ;)

And the money quote:



First off, EVE ain't Star Trek Online, and Star Trek Online isn't going to try to be EVE -- in much the same way Star Frontiers didn't try to be Traveller or Serenity didn't try to be Space Rangers. They are very different games with different expectations and different core elements. The fact they're both set in space is very minor. If I play a Serenity MMO somewhere along the line, I'll expect it to have Western conventions and a ramshackle ship interior. If I play a Babylon 5 MMO I'll expect there to be on-station homeless alongside moments of sudden unexpected beauty. When I play Star Trek Online I sort of expect there to be a Captain's Chair somewhere in the equation. ;)

Secondly -- I tried out an EVE trial account. And I didn't then bother to buy the game because doing nothing that actually involved my character quickly divorced me from the proceedings. Which, as I recall, was also the full-on doom of Auto Assault. While there are a good number of people who do happily play EVE without ground encounters or ship interiors, there are also lots of folks for whom this is a turnoff. And as near as I can tell, Cryptic wants those folks to play STO too.

Your counterarguments seem to reduce to the same basic statement: "you don't need interiors to get the game effect implied by interiors." Which, if all this game was, potentially, was a collection of game effects would be true. But it's not just a collection of game effects. It is --as I've said elsewhere -- an overall experience, and the parts of the experience that are important to some folks are different than others. For a lot of people, Star Trek is more than just the exterior of a starship and a five man team shooting phasers on a planet. It's a sense of place, of 'home.' The Enterprise was familiar to us -- as much a character as McCoy or LaForge. And while we accept that we won't be getting those senses of the interior or the different function at game launch -- and yes we will live without them -- they come across as a tremendous gap and a weakness in our experience of the game.

Does that, at the least, make sense?

I really believe most of the concepts your expressing , come down to persistent gameplay world and this game will predominately be an instanced gameplay world .

[Hagon]

.... Even if your taking a break..... sitting around chatting whyle your in your negh'var or vor'cha cloaked in deep space... do you want to just sit there looking at the cloaked outline of your ship, or would you rather be looking around your bridge, personal quarters or even the mess hall?I'd rather be looking at the cloaked outline of my ship while knowing that the devs didn't end up wasting a huge amount of time and resources for something that really doesn't add anything toward fun game play.

[Hagon]

Funny how must people will comment on most "fluff content" as being their favorite part of their previously played titles.


I would say that the people that say that are a very very small minoriy. In fact my experience shows me that's for sure.

We already know that some missions will take your boarding party to other peoples' ships. I can definitely see episodes where some threat beams onto your ship and you have to take to the corridors to deal with it. (In fact, I have seen it -- dozens of times, on every show with the Star Trek name on it. ;) ). That's an entire class of missions I seriously doubt the developers will ignore any longer than they have to.

Unless I missed something there won't be boarding of other player's ships. There will be missions that involve boarding of NPC vessels.

Any equipment that can improve a ship can be added without there having to be interiors, and in fact it would be better since it wouldn't require the devs to waste the time making useless interiors.

[Father_Origin]

Nothing personal but, this subject has been beat our heads so much 'second only to bridge officer players' that I personally no longer care if interiors are ever added to this game....there is a point where
any further arguement to promote something only hurts it.

it is way past that point.

[Manta2015]

Even though there's no mechanics that improve how you play the game --- It's the same reason I go to a cockpit view for a flight simulation or the choose the driver's seat view in a racing game. It significantly helps immerse the player ~ and that to many makes it much more *fun* =)

Until then the RPers will have to use their imagination for the other ship interiors ~ Which is fine for now.


-Manta-

[Morbius1]

If you are only interested in game mechanics and not "fluff" content, as you put it, why play this game over any other? Any MMO or even FPS can get your PewPew on. You don't need to play STO for that.

A LARGE chunk of Star Trek takes place inside the ships. It's a part of the IP and part of what makes Star Trek Star Trek. I don't want to be just a ship like in Eve.

Like others have said, it's the equivalent of Player Housing. To you it's not needed or important. That's fine, but a MMO is not only the parts that you are interested in. It is the sum of parts that interest various people. They want subscribers. If having customizable ship interiors will gain them more subscribers I'm sure they won't think of it as a waste of time or resources.

This falls under a "to each their own" category. Everyone has a reason for playing the game. I like to role-play and I eagerly want ship interiors I can customize and invite friends to see etc. That's my prerogative and will enhance my enjoyment of the game.

[thefreshjedi]

Think of this... EvE Online has had nothing but ships since launch, not even once your charater is shown outside of a pod. Period... your in somesort of a spaceship... in space or docked inside a station. EvE has earned the nickname of spaceships online. The player base there has cought word of an expansion planned later this year or next year codenamed ambulation.... 90% of the player base is looking forward to it..... Even if your taking a break..... sitting around chatting whyle your in your negh'var or vor'cha cloaked in deep space... do you want to just sit there looking at the cloaked outline of your ship, or would you rather be looking around your bridge, personal quarters or even the mess hall?

Bingo Aeryn. Dead on.

Ship interiors are to Star Trek as Syrup and butter is to Pancakes.

If every episode of Star Trek that we ever watched on T.V. only showed the outside of the ships, the shows and movies would have failed. What links us to Star Trek is the humanity of it, the psychology of Trek is the feeling of being a part of it. Every show was cast from a Third Person perspective on both aspects of the Ships be it from an interior perspective looking on the crew, focus on the bridge, the viewer, or the Random Redshirt milling about doing his or her job, to the the exterior shots, which offered a blend of the world beyond, the undiscovered country... but the world within these Ships kept our humanity in check; and moreover their interiors, and the way people interacted within them. These hulks of metal floating in space would be just as dead and lifeless without the necessary human contact and relationships that flourish within them.

Interiors are a much needed aspect of the gameplay to fulfil the experience of player interaction and immersion. Be it Ten-Forward, my personal Ready-Room, my holodeck, or my staff-officer meeting room. These are all aspects of the shows that we saw and loved. Therefore, whether understood or not, they are needed to make the MMOG, an MMORPG. Otherwise you just have another EvE Online, cold lifeless and boring as hell. Pretty, but that's about it.

-avery

[CaptainFreeFall]

Bingo Aeryn. Dead on.

Ship interiors are to Star Trek as Syrup and butter is to Pancakes.

If every episode of Star Trek that we ever watched on T.V. only showed the outside of the ships, the shows and movies would have failed. What links us to Star Trek is the humanity of it, the psychology of Trek is the feeling of being a part of it. Every show was cast from a Third Person perspective on both aspects of the Ships be it from an interior perspective looking on the crew, focus on the bridge, the viewer, or the Random Redshirt milling about doing his or her job, the exterior shots offered a blend of the world beyond, the undiscovered country... but the world within kept our humanity in check; but moreover their interiors, and the way people interacted within them. These hulks of metal floating in space would be just as dead and lifeless without the necessary human contact and relationships that flourish within them.

Interiors are a much needed aspect of the gameplay to fulfil the experience of player interaction and immersion. Be it Ten-Forward, my personal Ready-Room, my holodeck, or my staff-officer meeting room. These are all aspects of the shows that we saw and loved. Therefore, whether understood or not, they are needed to make the MMOG, an MMORPG. Otherwise you just have another EvE Online, cold lifeless and boring as hell. Pretty, but that's about it.

-avery

I think that deserves 4 gold pips.


:D

[Kinjiru]

I think that deserves 4 gold pips.


:D

4 gold pips and a hi five. Agreed.

[indigowhale345]

I think what you pro-interior folks have to realize is people like Hagon and Slingblades are saying they will never use the damn things if they do nothing, and Cryptic will spend a lot of time to create something that does nothing for them, when instead they could be developing more universally accepted content, like a third faction or something.

Now, read between the lines a bit and you see something else. Make ship interiors do something important, and you can win their support for ship interiors, as opposed to them being against it as a waste of resources.

Personally I'm ambivalent about them. I don't like walking around an empty place for no reason at all. If there won't be missions or real function to them, I'll set it up, have a look, nod and smile, and then get back to playing the game, never coming back for weeks.

Sure I'd invite people over for tacos, to do some ICRP, but if I have to make my interiors useful through my own actions, where 90% of the time I'll be the only real person on the ship, I won't care much about them one way or the other. I'm not against them, I know some people will love them much more than I will, but I'd much rather they were functional, important, and a well integrated part of the game.

If you want ship interiors, I say make them important, make them something everyone should want to spend time in. Even if they don't walk around in them for fun, they will want them for their functionality. So that's the question, how do you make them functional and thus useful to everyone?


I do have a few ideas on the subject.

Firstly, if we imagine there will be pieces to choose from and parts to 'assemble', then each of those parts can offer different benefits. Say you have a holodeck on your ship, that can the give you a +5 buff to ground combat and morale. A mess hall could give say +12 to morale. A secondary bridge could give say -5% skill recharges. Etc, etc, etc.

Of course you then have to limit what can and can't be placed. Maybe you can have two mess halls but then you don't have room for a holodeck. It becomes a balancing act as well as customization.

Next we can have the different sections add access to special missions, where if you go into that section, you'll get a random mission to start, and the various components could modify what kind of missions you get. Lets say if you have a secondary bridge you get more random tactical missions, and if you have a hydroponics bay you might get more science missions. You might even say that if you have no tactical interior components on your science ship, you won't get any random tactical focused missions, or in other words, all your random missions would have very little or no combat in them.

Last idea I have right now is to have various interior sections become "money makers". Right away we can have some section be a 'crafting section', where you can go and craft stuff (assuming there is still crafting in STO) instead of having to go back to a Starbase. An extra cargo bay may give you more storage for stuff, either for trader types, or packrats, or even for more photon torpedoes for combat oriented people.

Other sections or combinations of sections might generate resources at a certain rate, like the mess hall+cargo bay would generate tacos. These could be traded or sold or whatever. You could even have it so that going into the mess and playing a minigame every hour or so might boost the taco generation rate a bit for the next hour, and it would decay to be nearly nothing if you're idle (so people don't stay logged on all night to get something for nothing).

I hope people (especially Cryptic) sees there is more potential for interiors than just fluff. While fluff definitely appeals to a lot of people, there is no reason not to have both the fluff and more tangible benefits at the same time.

[thefreshjedi]

...
Firstly, if we imagine there will be pieces to choose from and parts to 'assemble', then each of those parts can offer different benefits. Say you have a holodeck on your ship, that can the give you a +5 buff to ground combat and morale. A mess hall could give say +12 to morale. A secondary bridge could give say -5% skill recharges. Etc, etc, etc.
...


Brilliant Bob. Simply Brilliant. This is not an old idea either. The personal quarters in FFXI allowed you to do many mini-game things which also contributed back to your stats in many other ways. It was optional, but those that utilized their personal quarters for the benefits, reaped many.

An interior comercial sponsored by Master Card:
Holodeck +10 to Morale and training experience. Ten-forward: +5 to diplomacy and relationships. Crew suites or personnel rooms: +5 to Stamina. A poker room: Priceless.

On another note: I want to cordially invite everyone over for poker night on-board my ship. Klingons included. Just leave your weapons at the door, thanks.

-avery

[Morbius1]

I'm all for giving it function.

Another idea is why can't we actually play from inside the bridge when not in combat? Not everything in the ship (I hope) will be involved with combat. Like another said, it's like the games you play in the cockpit of a flight-sim or in the car of racing games.

The Holodeck has unlimited potential for quests etc.

There are a ton of ideas that can be hatched for ship interiors. Who really knows what Cyptic has in mind already.

[SnuffleKitty]

The Space-Game and the Ground-Game will have to remain separate but equal.

Repelling a boarding party mid-flight would be extremely cool, but then who would be flying the ship?!

It may work in instanced missions though.

Regardless, ship interiors are something I would like to see in the game, for EVERY single ship in the game. I do consider it to be fluff. But it is fluff that I want to see. I want to be able to walk around the bridge. I want to be able to go down to engineering. Beyond that, maybe the shuttlebay, and maybe the mess.

But this is fluff that, again, could be used in instanced missions.

Example:

Ensign Ricky picked up an alien organism while on an away missions. Now the alien organism has exploded from his chest [gruesome], and is loose on the ship. It will be up to you to hunt down the creature before it has a chance to infect more of the crew. ;D

Another Example:

While your shields were temporarily down, the Borg on the Sphere you just destroyed somehow managed to beam over to your ship undetected. They have assimilated the Engineering deck, and it is only a matter of time before they do the same to the rest of the ship, as well as your crew. It is up to you to stop them, before it is too late.

;3 This is kinda fun. I have others...

But you get the picture.

-Snuffles

[thefreshjedi]

...
Example:

Ensign Ricky picked up an alien organism while on an away missions. Now the alien organism has exploded from his chest [gruesome], and is loose on the ship. It will be up to you to hunt down the creature before it has a chance to infect more of the crew. ;D


Another Example:

While your shields were temporarily down, the Borg on the Sphere you just destroyed somehow managed to beam over to your ship undetected. They have assimilated the Engineering deck, and it is only a matter of time before they do the same to the rest of the ship, as well as your crew. It is up to you to stop them, before it is too late.
-Snuffles

Both are great examples, I like the first one especially. :D

Your avatar name makes my eyes bleed though...:(

-avery

[Loekii]

Loekii posted a few really good ideas on what can be done inside the ship but I don't see how most of those can't be instanced like Cryptic is planning to do now with interiors.

A while back, they stated they want to do ship interiors correctly, where on a Defiant, you have a Defiant interior, and on a Nebula, you have a Nebula interior, etc.

I believe it was Gozer that was working on the tutorial, and said how long it took just to get the engineering section correctly set up -- basically demonstrating that it takes a lot of work to get just one room set up. Now imagine that for every variation of ship we are able to command -- while you are also trying to finish all the other aspects of the game.

So rather than just throw up generic 'interiors', they decided to table it till after release, when they can focus on it better, and present a much better system/quality.

Imo, I agree with their approach.

[JoeTheEngineer]

A while back, they stated they want to do ship interiors correctly, where on a Defiant, you have a Defiant interior, and on a Nebula, you have a Nebula interior, etc.

I believe it was Gozer that was working on the tutorial, and said how long it took just to get the engineering section correctly set up -- basically demonstrating that it takes a lot of work to get just one room set up. Now imagine that for every variation of ship we are able to command -- while you are also trying to finish all the other aspects of the game.

So rather than just throw up generic 'interiors', they decided to table it till after release, when they can focus on it better, and present a much better system/quality.

Imo, I agree with their approach.


Or instead of a 2-year development, we could have had a 3 year development. Not a bad trade-off, except Star Trek Online was announced in 2004. And little work was done in 4 years between 2004 and 2008. So it's been a long wait already.

I don't expect ship interiors for EVERY ship. Note that in SWG there were ship interiors for only 2 or 3 ship classes. I would expect at most 5 ship interiors for 5 ship classes.

[Swordopolis]

Firstly, if we imagine there will be pieces to choose from and parts to 'assemble', then each of those parts can offer different benefits. Say you have a holodeck on your ship, that can the give you a +5 buff to ground combat and morale. A mess hall could give say +12 to morale. A secondary bridge could give say -5% skill recharges. Etc, etc, etc.

It's certainly an intriguing concept, but most ships we've seen come with most of this stuff already built-in.

[indigowhale345]

It's certainly an intriguing concept, but most ships we've seen come with most of this stuff already built-in.

You're right, and I was actually thinking about this after I posted.

I think an alternative might be to allow you to use all the sections you want to (or whatever Cryptic gives us if they come pre-built based on ship design) and then you get to allocate "points" that designate that section as a "critical system", and other sections are just auxiliary, so aren't as important to your ship's function. These points would then duplicate the originial suggestion, so I could have 2 points in my mess hall as a very critical system and get +24 to morale from all the tacos the crew is eating, and 2 more points in cargo bay so I can have a lot of torpedoes and plenty of room for surplus tacos.

[Swordopolis]

so I could have 2 points in my mess hall as a very critical system and get +24 to morale from all the tacos the crew is eating, and 2 more points in cargo bay so I can have a lot of torpedoes and plenty of room for surplus tacos.

I think that if your crew is gonna be eating so many tacos, you may want to allocate some of those points for improved bathroom facilities. ;)

[thefreshjedi]

I think that if your crew is gonna be eating so many tacos, you may want to allocate some of those points for improved bathroom facilities. ;)

They're not allowed to go to the bathroom, remember? No crew rotations = no breaks. And the whipping continues...sound the rowing drums!

-avery

[indigowhale345]

I think that if your crew is gonna be eating so many tacos, you may want to allocate some of those points for improved bathroom facilities. ;)

Ha ha, very funny.


Everyone knows toilets go against canon in Star Trek. Even pre-warp civilizations don't have them. So, the more tacos they eat, the better.

[Vuk]

They're not allowed to go to the bathroom, remember? No crew rotations = no breaks. And the whipping continues...sound the rowing drums!

-avery

:eek: Wow, a slave driver ! I like it ! You''ll need to chain starving wolves just out of the reach of the crew members posts to keep motivation high. Like they do at Cryptic now. :D

[Hagon]

In my opinion anyone that thinks that the interiors of the various ships were anything more than generic props to house the characters and facilitate the stories getting told that those characters were involved in, then they really never got Star Trek at all.

[scholarman]

Ha ha, very funny.


Everyone knows toilets go against canon in Star Trek. Even pre-warp civilizations don't have them. So, the more tacos they eat, the better.

Hey! My 1970's era "Star Fleet Technical Manual" shows a toilet in every stateroom!

[JoeTheEngineer]

I find it amusing that Cryptic avoids ship interior threads like the plague.

[JoeTheEngineer]

In my opinion anyone that thinks that the interiors of the various ships were anything more than generic props to house the characters and facilitate the stories getting told that those characters were involved in, then they really never got Star Trek at all.

in my opinion you're totally wrong. The technology was always a big part of Star Trek, and the starship was one of the biggest selling points. What would the Enterprise have been if not for the futuristic bridge? The viewscreen? The control panels? The Holodecks? The automatic doors? (I know not too futuristic).

The interiors of the ship was a part of the whole shebang. It made space travel more comfortable and pleasing, and aided in socializing and just plain old living.

Do you really think there could have been a Star Trek if the ships were still like the interiors of modern-day shuttles?

Come on. The ship interiors were a part of Star Trek as much as anything else. Mess Hall too.

[Hagon]

in my opinion you're totally wrong. The technology was always a big part of Star Trek, and the starship was one of the biggest selling points. What would the Enterprise have been if not for the futuristic bridge? The viewscreen? The control panels? The Holodecks? The automatic doors? (I know not too futuristic).

The interiors of the ship was a part of the whole shebang. It made space travel more comfortable and pleasing, and aided in socializing and just plain old living.

Do you really think there could have been a Star Trek if the ships were still like the interiors of modern-day shuttles?

Come on. The ship interiors were a part of Star Trek as much as anything else. Mess Hall too.You partly get it. It was the ships themselves, as a whole, that are a big part of Trek. Not the minutia of what was inside of them. They were a stage needed because these were TV shows. This isn't going to be a TV show. It's going to be a game. A computer game. It's not about play acting. Computer games are about facing challenges laid out by the designers of the game play and trying to best it. Having interiors would not help in besting any challenges designed, therefor serve no purpose.

[ExpendableCrewman]

You partly get it. It was the ships themselves, as a whole, that are a big part of Trek. Not the minutia of what was inside of them. They were a stage needed because these were TV shows. This isn't going to be a TV show. It's going to be a game. A computer game. It's not about play acting. Computer games are about facing challenges laid out by the designers of the game play and trying to best it. Having interiors would not help in besting any challenges designed, therefor serve no purpose.

I must respectfully disagree.. not only were the ships the home, defense, life, social hub, barrier between space, and just simply iconic, BUT the interiors of every ship was unique, you could tell just by looking at the lighting and buttons/viewscreens etc what KIND of ship you were in klingon, romulan, federation....

AND how many episodes never featured the interior of the ship/station?? NONE every single episode ever made to my knowledge has in some way shape or form had a staion or ship interior in it. WHY?

Because that is where you can see the shape of progress, and the future close up, yeah anyone can make a cool looking rocket ship that floats around in space, but it s what s on the inside that is the real marvel, like the bridge with all those monitors and buttons, the turbolifts, the holodecks, messhalls where you actually SEE the crew inside and how many of them there are and how different they are. Of course lets not forget about engineering which houses the very foundation of star trek the WARP DRIVE.

Why, to say that ship interiors dont MEAN anything to star trek as game is like saying spidermans suit doesnt mean anything to a spiderman game, <I mean after all its only cosmetic it doesnt improve gameplay at all> YET it is iconic and defines spiderman the same way that the bridge captains quarters, engineering etc. define star trek game or no.

[Hagon]

I must respectfully disagree.. not only were the ships the home, defense, life, social hub, barrier between space, and just simply iconic, BUT the interiors of every ship was unique, you could tell just by looking at the lighting and buttons/viewscreens etc what KIND of ship you were in klingon, romulan, federation....

AND how many episodes never featured the interior of the ship/station?? NONE every single episode ever made to my knowledge has in some way shape or form had a staion or ship interior in it. WHY?

Because that is where you can see the shape of progress, and the future close up, yeah anyone can make a cool looking rocket ship that floats around in space, but it s what s on the inside that is the real marvel, like the bridge with all those monitors and buttons, the turbolifts, the holodecks, messhalls where you actually SEE the crew inside and how many of them there are and how different they are. Of course lets not forget about engineering which houses the very foundation of star trek the WARP DRIVE.

Why, to say that ship interiors dont MEAN anything to star trek as game is like saying spidermans suit doesnt mean anything to a spiderman game, <I mean after all its only cosmetic it doesnt improve gameplay at all> YET it is iconic and defines spiderman the same way that the bridge captains quarters, engineering etc. define star trek game or no.How could they have had a TV show without having some kind of set for the actors to stand in. They couldn't very well have had the actors floating in space. Here's a hint for you. Watch pretty much any episode and look for when they're going to break or coming back from one. Nine times out of ten you'll see a shot of the EXTERIOR of the ship. Reason being is that is that's what they want you to imagine. It's the ship itself that's iconic, not what's inside it. You look at shots of interiors in TNG, Voyager, and DS9 when they're on board Fed ships and the interiors are pretty generic. They're pretty generic because they're meaningless to the stories. All those monitors and buttons, the turbo lifts, the holodecks, mess halls, and yes the warp cores were generic props on a stage where having a stage was important. Having a stage in a computer game is unimportant.

[Skotticus]

Clearly some people are looking for different things. Hagon will likely never bother to view the inside of his ships because that will inhibit his tactical efficiency, while others will enjoy exploring a space of their own.

It's not for anyone to say these are mutually exclusive goals unless that person is a developer. If individualized interiors are not a feasible goal for launch, they will not be in at launch. I doubt they will stay out of the game forever-- CoH did not escape SG headquarters, villains, or lairs, to begin a long list. EVE did not go forever without bigger and more specialized ships and ship roles, player stations, epansions of corporation rights; EVE will not go forever without station interiors, ship interiors, or planetary flight. SWG did not go forever without the NGE... wait, bad example.

Hagon, I hesitate to mimic you, but I do feel a need to point out that there is no "it" to get. Again, for some people Star Trek was about space combat, for others it was about the characters on the ships. Doubtless the former enjoyed the latter half of DS9 quite a bit more than they enjoyed much of TNG or TOS. It's very easy for a member of one group to say to the other that they don't "get it..." when in fact all they are saying is "you don't agree with me, so clearly you don't understand the show/why I like it." That's a reasonable, if somewhat shortsighted, opinion to have. It doesn't make either group WRONG, it just makes them intolerant of outside views.

The same can be said of the game or games in general. For one person, perhaps the chief priority is to complete the obstacle course, triumph over every challenge, fell every foe. For others, it is to see what is there to be seen, stake out a personal--if virtual--space for themselves, come to identify with the environment and the people in it, experience or create the story of their characters and their universe.

One approach is no better or worse than the other-- just different. The pointof every game, afterall, is not to present a series of impossible challenges to its players-- it is to provide an environment and a scenario in which as many different kinds of people as possible can enjoy themselves. And despite the fact that there are people who view things like ship interiors as hindrances (for these, there is of course the option to not use them), there are plenty of others who find that these sorts of things DO enhance their game experience. And so, it will be so.

[Hagon]

Clearly some people are looking for different things. Hagon will likely never bother to view the inside of his ships because that will inhibit his tactical efficiency, while others will enjoy exploring a space of their own.

It's not for anyone to say these are mutually exclusive goals unless that person is a developer. If individualized interiors are not a feasible goal for launch, they will not be in at launch. I doubt they will stay out of the game forever-- CoH did not escape SG headquarters, villains, or lairs, to begin a long list. EVE did not go forever without bigger and more specialized ships and ship roles, player stations, epansions of corporation rights; EVE will not go forever without station interiors, ship interiors, or planetary flight. SWG did not go forever without the NGE... wait, bad example.

Hagon, I hesitate to mimic you, but I do feel a need to point out that there is no "it" to get. Again, for some people Star Trek was about space combat, for others it was about the characters on the ships. Doubtless the former enjoyed the latter half of DS9 quite a bit more than they enjoyed much of TNG or TOS. It's very easy for a member of one group to say to the other that they don't "get it..." when in fact all they are saying is "you don't agree with me, so clearly you don't understand the show/why I like it." That's a reasonable, if somewhat shortsighted, opinion to have. It doesn't make either group WRONG, it just makes them intolerant of outside views.

The same can be said of the game or games in general. For one person, perhaps the chief priority is to complete the obstacle course, triumph over every challenge, fell every foe. For others, it is to see what is there to be seen, stake out a personal--if virtual--space for themselves, come to identify with the environment and the people in it, experience or create the story of their characters and their universe.

One approach is no better or worse than the other-- just different. The pointof every game, afterall, is not to present a series of impossible challenges to its players-- it is to provide an environment and a scenario in which as many different kinds of people as possible can enjoy themselves. And despite the fact that there are people who view things like ship interiors as hindrances (for these, there is of course the option to not use them), there are plenty of others who find that these sorts of things DO enhance their game experience. And so, it will be so.The problem is that no game can be everything to everyone, and so it has to primarily be for someone. If this was to be a sim then yes, interiors would be a must have. It's not going to be a sim though, that's been made clear pretty much from day one of Cryptic announcing they'd be taking it over, and so they're not needed.

[ExpendableCrewman]

How could they have had a TV show without having some kind of set for the actors to stand in. They couldn't very well have had the actors floating in space. Here's a hint for you. Watch pretty much any episode and look for when they're going to break or coming back from one. Nine times out of ten you'll see a shot of the EXTERIOR of the ship. Reason being is that is that's what they want you to imagine. It's the ship itself that's iconic, not what's inside it. You look at shots of interiors in TNG, Voyager, and DS9 when they're on board Fed ships and the interiors are pretty generic. They're pretty generic because they're meaningless to the stories. All those monitors and buttons, the turbo lifts, the holodecks, mess halls, and yes the warp cores were generic props on a stage where having a stage was important. Having a stage in a computer game is unimportant.

Oes , I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I for one always liked the interiors of all the ships especially the klingon ones <wish they could have shown more of them>. To me the bridge was more than just a place for the actors to be just cuz they couldnt wear space suits and float around outside. I do understand where you are coming from tho, and you are RIGHT about the ship itself being iconic as well.

The only thing I dont understand that you have said is how the interiors of ships/stations are meaningless to the stories, <if I may ask not tryin to b snippy> what about the promenade on DS9?? quarks bar and the holosweets and such?? Do you know how many episodes factored on and centered around the promenade and bar??

Why what with character deaths, murders, fights, stories, plot elements, deals, etc goin down ...that was THE happenin place on DS9 more stuff happened in there than I can list . Same can be said about VOYAGER and there messhall, sickbay, astrometrics, engineering and holodecks, it goes the same way with all the shows.

If you could, could ya please help me to understand what it was you meant by sayin the interiors were jus a stage? and all the "interiors are pretty generic. They're pretty generic because they're meanigless to the stories" <I am just wondering what you meant by that considering that especially on DS9 MOST of the story took place inside that station interior.>

[ExpendableCrewman]

As to the post : The value of interiors well..... To pplz such as myself, I think they would be great. However to cryptic I think they are lowest priority, if that. I do not beleive cryptic EVER plans on having interiors outside of missions.<this is my personal opinion> Based off of what I have read and seen in the movies from devs and the rest of cryptic they DONT WANT to have to do interiors. So I very highly doubt that we will ever have them..it would be nice tho and I think that would be the cherry on top if they did.:DHINTHINT:D

[sacerd]

To be honest I don't care if the interiors are customizable or not, I just want to have them so I can mingle with newly made online buddies. LOL
Interiors with ensigns and officers walking all over the place, talking about mundane crap or maybe even the missions that are in your mission log. maybe they could even be "quest givers" who knows, the possibilities are endless.

[Ifandbut]

I love player housing. I really love being able to visit other players houses. In SWG houses were not much more then extra bank space and vendor location, but the way some people decorated there was insane. I saw a Y-Wing in one house made out of alot of random items.

When I was playing Final Fantasy 11 a friend spent millions of in-game money (10s of thousands gold for you WoW players) just to make his house look cool. It took SE 3 or 4 years to add the ability to visit other people's houses. When I was finally able to see his house I was envious....all my house had was a bed and some chocobo bedding.

I would like to see ship interiors added post launch. I would like it even more if we could board enemy ships in PvP but that might be dreaming a little too much atm.

[sacerd]

I cant help but think that player housing in this game really is a must have.
I know it it just me but I want the ship to be MY ship. I want to walk its halls and watch its inhabitants, and know that I am indeed the captain of this vessel LOL.
It is silly I know but I cant help it. :)

[ExpendableCrewman]

I cant help but think that player housing in this game really is a must have.
I know it it just me but I want the ship to be MY ship. I want to walk its halls and watch its inhabitants, and know that I am indeed the captain of this vessel LOL.
It is silly I know but I cant help it. :)

No not at all its not stupid or anything, IT IS A GAME yer supposed to be able to have fun like that its what its all about.:)

[Sir.Bastage]

I cant help but think that player housing in this game really is a must have.
I know it it just me but I want the ship to be MY ship. I want to walk its halls and watch its inhabitants, and know that I am indeed the captain of this vessel LOL.
It is silly I know but I cant help it. :)

That's not silly. I want to crawl through a Jeffries tube. :D

[Eclipse1987]

imo fun like everything else is realative.(no offense)for ppl like hagon ship interiors just dont fit their idea of fun. nothing wrong with that...it takes all types. personally i want interiors, i dont rp but it would make my gaming experience more enjoyable. nothing wrong with that... it takes all types. i think ppl on either side of this issue will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. lol besides everyone knows the three social taboos u never discuss. Religon, Politics and Ship interiors. :p

[xcess]

Starship interiors should be done just like in Star Wars Galaxies. Ships have interiors too. Scroll out and you are seeing a 3D exterior setting when your character sits down on the pilots' seat. (PoB ships like the falcon, Mining ship with several decks even, etc) Really Jump to Lightspeed has done that right.

Figuring the technology for this is already existing, they could do that in Star Trek Online too.

[.Spartan]

For what it is worth, I rank interiors very high on my priority list - right behind a Romulan faction in fact. I look at ship interiors in exactly the same way as a player house. I would LOVE to see my PC in her captain's chair on a Romulan bridge looking at a view screen with the real game space flying by on it (think of the performance value here in GPU rendering and CPU overhead) while 80% of the screen is running bridge crew at their stations crew animations.

Anyway, if Cryptic is going to try to get the community to support MT in game this would be the single most important thing it can do to facilitate that support.

Also to those that claim the amount of work involved would be monumental or cost prohibitive I say nay. They are already claiming thousands of possible variations of ship style.Consequently, making at a minimum a single bridge for each type of ship would be token at best.

[Colm]

A great many people play Eve for longer periods without ship interior and have never stated that was a reason for leaving Eve.

Actually, I tried EVE and I really didn't like the fact that you never see your character, only the butt of your ship. It's the reason I stopped playing. I don't think I'm alone in this decision. I didn't complain about it, I just stopped playing the game.


I believe ship interiors are a plus to the gameplay and immersion, as housing or social areas, also for crafting. If people don't like them they can just ignore them. Many people don't like PvP, and will never play it. You don't see them complaining about the time and effort used to make PvP possible.

Different people want different things. Let's not be selfish and deny others what we are not interested in.

[Gothique]

I am disappointed sad to say that I will keep my subscription money for something else or until Cryptic does SOMETHING for roleplayers.
I thought the Star Trek franchise would bring more to the MMORPG genre than more of the same pvp and pve and I really hoped to have the chance to use the iconic ship interiors, interacting with a human crew or simply the use of diplomacy and other means to resolve situations.
From the devs silence on this issue, it is clear to me that it is not their priority and it is a dangerous bet they have taken, as hardcore fans are the most vocal in expressing their love or anger.

For the devs simply look at what happened to SWG as they went on to get rid of most of the roleplaying element and dumb down the game. SOE admitted their mistake and even tried to revert the way it was but the damage was done and they never recovered. If upon launch too many people are upset with the game, the same will happen and don't expect to correct things the following years.

Anyways I hope all goes well and down the line, with improvements, my crew and I would love to join a rich STO.

-previous poster: I havent played Eve more than a couple of hours but I know a lot of people who have left because of the lack of immersion and its repetitiveness-

[Hagon]

I am disappointed sad to say that I will keep my subscription money for something else or until Cryptic does SOMETHING for roleplayers.
Really it's not whether or not Cryptic does something for role players is it? After all, you don't know what they're doing for role players.

Truth be told, from what Zinc and some others have said they'll be doing a lot for role players. It's really about them not bowing to the demands of a tiny specific group of role players isn't it? Probably the same tiny group we've been hearing from since almost day one, just with the names changed.


We've seen post after post from "role players" on this board over the last year + stating that whether or not there are interiors won't effect their role playing. They'll just adjust their role play like they do and have done in every other game that's ever been. Since that's part of what being a good role player is about. In the words of one long time role player that I remember posting on the forums, "You can hand me a stick and I'll create a rich role playing scenario from it that I can enjoy for years".

[Gothique]

Hi Hagon

I am not going to argue to what they may or may not do but when I see what Bioware has in store for SW:TOR and how they listen to their rp community, even my love for ST won't be enough to keep me interested.
I am a writer (average!) and I enjoy the immersion, player and dev driven stories, the maximum interaction with likeminded people and building my character's personality and own story.
It increasingly seems that STO isnt for me though I admit it is a bit early to say. I will keep an eye open :)

[CaptainQuirk]

Why should ship interiors be taken seriously? It's really quite simple. Not every player is into just PvP or PvE. in every MMO there is a significant cross-section that likes to just BE in the gameworld. They prefer to spend most of their time socializing. It's just their cup of tea. PvPers have nothing but bad things to say to these people, and they go out of their way to say them. They can't stand the thought that someone can enjoy doing nothing in a game. But the bottom line is that these people pay a monthly fee just like everyone else. And if the game allows them to do nothing, then it's their prerogative.

Another reason why ship interiors are important is because when you watch an episode of Star Trek, most of the plot takes place on the ship, with characters using ship's systems to come up with solutions to the current problem.

I personally want ship interiors as means of making it feel more like Star Trek.

It doesn't even really need to be a complete ship layout, either. All it really needs is a bridge with a turbolift that leads to a corridor layout that connects to key locations like sick bay and engineering, crew quarters and so forth. Essentially, the areas they built sets for in the TV shows. It doesn't have to have floor plans of every single deck with every single jeffries tube and crawlspace. The Jeffries tubes would be parts of mission interiors. For the most part, we never see characters in the shows use them unless there is need to do so.

I think it's more than fair to ask for at least that level of ship interior as soon as possible post-launch.

I also think that it is fair to ask that they provide some sort of main viewscreen graphical overlay at launch for when you zoom in to first-person perspective. They don't need to show the whole bridge. Just the main viewer. That way, you get the feel of being on a ship and not being the ship.

Should ship interiors be accessible at all times? No. Obviously, when you're in the middle of a space battle, it wouldn't make sense to leave the bridge and go to the mess hall for a cup of coffee. Ideally, ship interiors would be present when you're not running a mission, unless there are mission elements that take place on your ship, of course...

[Snakeguy]

Should ship interiors be accessible at all times? No. Obviously, when you're in the middle of a space battle, it wouldn't make sense to leave the bridge and go to the mess hall for a cup of coffee. Ideally, ship interiors would be present when you're not running a mission, unless there are mission elements that take place on your ship, of course...

But....that's the best time for coffee. Keeps your BO's on their toes.

[ZeframCochrane]

As is typical with discussions about interiors we have moved back into how necessary they are for immersion. I agree but that's not the reason for the thread.

Believe me, Sameet/CaptainHoliday/JoyriderCaptain/JoetheEngineer convinced everyone long ago of their value to Role Players and people who want immersion. I know that most everyone will appreciate them on some level, even hardcore gamers even of they don’t need them or care if they are included.

I want to know what interiors bring to the table in terms of utility. How can interiors change PVP/PVE game play? What if anything can be done to make them more relevant to non RPers? Suggestions have been made that boarding parties would be cool or maybe a spy hiding on your ship. But most every suggestion I have heard seems to fall into two categories;

1) Non utilitarian personal enhancements.
2) Game play elements that can be achieved in static or instanced interiors.

I fear my title was not clear enough so I will be changing it in hopes that it drives the discussion.

[Phunix]

I mainly would like interiors for personal space, so I can drop all the stuff off that I collected from all over the galaxy and gawk at it whenever I want. Perhaps I'll even like PvP in this game and use interior space for trophies too!
Plus I've always been a nut about customization. It's part of the reason WoW didn't do much for me as it had very narrow customization and part why I played UO for 5 years.
UO always was a love/hate thing, one of its biggest draws I felt was the stuff you could collect, including the manufactured stuff and rare crap, even books at first!. (until they locked down NPC furniture lol)

It's a vested intrest you get when you personalize deeply.
Cryptic fully knows their formula of maximum customization keeps people coming back in a variety of ways.

[THORN74]

While the importance of the topic varies from person to person, there are many people who have expressed an interest in having persistent, customizable ship interiors. The vast majority (you could probably say all) of the people who have a real missionary zeal are Role Players. I am not a Role Player.

My question is this. Other than a place to socialize, hang curtains and sit in a chair, how will we use persistent ship interiors in game? How will they change/improve the experience of a non-RPer? We already have instanced interiors when we need them for missions so I can’t see how they will affect game play in that way. There are no non-NPC players on a ship other than the captain so going down to engineering to press a button because the captain told you to seems unlikely.

Is there some possibility I’m missing here? I haven’t played a ton of MMOs, mostly WoW for the last two years so I don’t know everything. Is there another game out there that has some sort of amazing integration between the player housing and the pewpew/mission/quest aspects of the game? I am genuinely interested in finding out how having an interior could make PVE/PVP play better.

at first i sharred your view, why waste the time and energy on creating such an unnessicarry time consuming option for such a small part of the community. But recently i have seen a better view on the explorable interior.

Imagine ur playing a mission/episode u have beemed down to the surface of a planet, for scientific exploration. Your science officer comes accross some unidentified substance. The tricorder doesnt register it, and ur officer need equipment on the ship to analyze it. so u beem back and can actually walk to the science lab and perform the experiment (think crafting or mini game) . to accomplish this would reqire the rendered interiors, BUT IT WOULD NOT REQUIRE ON DEMAND EXPLOREABLE INTERIORS.

so i can see a use for "in mission interiors" but unless they allow social grouping on ship (like ridesharing) there isnt a good reaso for exploreable interiors. IMHO

[Hagon]

Hi Hagon

I am not going to argue to what they may or may not do but when I see what Bioware has in store for SW:TOR and how they listen to their rp community, even my love for ST won't be enough to keep me interested.
I am a writer (average!) and I enjoy the immersion, player and dev driven stories, the maximum interaction with likeminded people and building my character's personality and own story.
It increasingly seems that STO isnt for me though I admit it is a bit early to say. I will keep an eye open :)I'm afraid you're mistaking SWTOR being a "story driven" mmo with it catering to role players. In fact if you really delve into that game and what the Bioware people are saying you'll see that they're going in the complete opposite direction from catering to role players.

STO looks like it's going to be more of a "story driven" mmo. In fact it looks like it's going to more of a "story driven" mmo than any other that's come before. The entire questing/mission system appears to be revolving around episodes, which will be all about story. Thus Cryptic's position regarding ship interiors. Ship interiors will be there when they pertain to the particular story being told at the time.

[Gothique]

I'm afraid you're mistaking SWTOR being a "story driven" mmo with it catering to role players. In fact if you really delve into that game and what the Bioware people are saying you'll see that they're going in the complete opposite direction from catering to role players.

STO looks like it's going to be more of a "story driven" mmo. In fact it looks like it's going to more of a "story driven" mmo than any other that's come before. The entire questing/mission system appears to be revolving around episodes, which will be all about story. Thus Cryptic's position regarding ship interiors. Ship interiors will be there when they pertain to the particular story being told at the time.

You dont really know what you are talking about, do you? Check otu the swtor forums and you will see in the confirmed features:

Story: (http://www.eucantina.net/archives/1109)
- Bigger than all Bioware games put together. (http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/..._so_far-2.html)
- Takes place around 3,500 BBY.
- Set roughly 300 years after the previous KOTOR games.
- There is an uneasy truce between the Republic and Sith Empire.
- The truce is like the Cold War, with proxy wars, etc.
- The characters all know war is going to break out.
- The game’s class-specific storylines mean that if you’ve always wanted to play a Sith Lord, "you are playing – for all intents and purposes – the Sith RPG."
- Each class will receive its own “story arc“.
- Your own actions will have a lasting impact on the game world.

And the devs have said that the storyline is one of the pillars of the game they are making and will facilitate the roleplaying environment.
Not to mention how seriously they are considering player housing in ships and space combat. They also promised a minimum of instancing. I really dont see how STO will compete. for the RP crowd.
And it's not because it's heavily story driven that there is no room for RP, on the contrary it gives every roleplayer a purpose (good or evil) if they choose to.

[Hagon]

You dont really know what you are talking about, do you? Check otu the swtor forums and you will see in the confirmed features:

Story: (http://www.eucantina.net/archives/1109)
- Bigger than all Bioware games put together. (http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/..._so_far-2.html)
- Takes place around 3,500 BBY.
- Set roughly 300 years after the previous KOTOR games.
- There is an uneasy truce between the Republic and Sith Empire.
- The truce is like the Cold War, with proxy wars, etc.
- The characters all know war is going to break out.
- The game’s class-specific storylines mean that if you’ve always wanted to play a Sith Lord, "you are playing – for all intents and purposes – the Sith RPG."
- Each class will receive its own “story arc“.
- Your own actions will have a lasting impact on the game world.

Nothing about that conveys tha they're catering to RPers at all. One could easily come up with a comparable list for STO. RPing is more about making up your own story, and both games will be comparable to any other MMO out there in that respect.

[Tamgros]

Nothing about that conveys tha they're catering to RPers at all. One could easily come up with a comparable list for STO. RPing is more about making up your own story, and both games will be comparable to any other MMO out there in that respect.
I just got in on this convo, so I don't know what all each party has said, but I can for sure agree on this point.

In SWTOR you are going to have your own story arcs, with maybe 1-2 decisions that actually matter per arc. :rolleyes: The rest is just fluff! Fluff where you choose what to say from three options. Does that really help Role play? I mean, really? Then you break off into a Cinematic 1/5 of the time...

That kind of thing is great for a single player/Coop RPG that wants to tell a story (what Bioware is great at). But does it really foster group RP where people can make their own story...

[Zandtar]

I don't know about the 'utility' part, but one game that did a pretty good job with customizable living type area's was EQ2, IMOHO. Sure it was what some might call 'fluff' but the marketing system allowed for people to visit your house and buy the items directly there (versus the public market) for a savings of the market fee. It gave the home owners reason to customize and 'show off' the place a bit.

It also generated in-game actions too. Some instances would reward a player with a house item they could use. Seasonal events would reward appropriate types of house things. Even the crafting could make and sell house items for people who wished. As far as player housing went, it was one of the more rich implementations that I've seen.

That being said, I think it would be an issue to cut and paste, and plop the identical into STO. However, what about player 'housing' or 'space' not just on a ship, but instead Star Bases? Unless a player is already on another players ship, it would be sort of difficult to hook up just to go hang out in another person's captains quarters. But something like a Star Base would be something of a central hub where people would be coming and going all the time.

Or, if they're for show only, perhaps make them able to be converted to a 'hologram program' that can be shared for other players to fire up and look at in their own hologram area's?

Of course I strongly suspect the core mechanics are already decided upon in the game, and we'll have to wait and be surprised when it comes out.

[blujester]

My concern with ship interiors, if and when we do get them is this. We know we'll have multiple ships, so do we have multiple floorplans for each one or do we configure a single bridge and have our new ships configured to OUR specs with the identical bridge/floorplan/decorations? I can see right there how complicated it's going to be for the devs to handle that. Also we know some events in missions will involve your ship interior or ie. repel the klingon boarding party, so do you see the standard bridge or does it occur on your pimped out custom bridge? It's a coding nightmare and someones bound to be disapointed no matter which option they choose.


Bj

[Acyl]

I want to know what interiors bring to the table in terms of utility. How can interiors change PVP/PVE game play? What if anything can be done to make them more relevant to non RPers? Suggestions have been made that boarding parties would be cool or maybe a spy hiding on your ship. But most every suggestion I have heard seems to fall into two categories;

1) Non utilitarian personal enhancements.
2) Game play elements that can be achieved in static or instanced interiors.

You're right. A lot of people have suggested things that can be done with ship interiors, but all of those things could also be done from game menus...or on starbases or something.

Let's look at City of Heroes, though. You don't need a supergroup base or villainous lair for most item storage and crafting. But it's a lot easier if you have one - otherwise you need to travel a lot more to use the public-access areas.

Supergroup bases also have medical bays; you can always rez at a city hospital, but if you have a base, you can respawn in it. You don't need a medical droid to buy healing items, but it's easier.

You don't need a base with teleporter pads to navigate the City of Heroes game world. But teleporters are still good to have - it's faster.

Are the bases necessary for City of Heroes gameplay? No. In fact, none of the functionality they provide is essential. But all of it is helpful, and they are logical functions for bases.

[JoeTheEngineer]

You're right. A lot of people have suggested things that can be done with ship interiors, but all of those things could also be done from game menus...or on starbases or something.

Let's look at City of Heroes, though. You don't need a supergroup base or villainous lair for most item storage and crafting. But it's a lot easier if you have one - otherwise you need to travel a lot more to use the public-access areas.

Supergroup bases also have medical bays; you can always rez at a city hospital, but if you have a base, you can respawn in it. You don't need a medical droid to buy healing items, but it's easier.

You don't need a base with teleporter pads to navigate the City of Heroes game world. But teleporters are still good to have - it's faster.

Are the bases necessary for City of Heroes gameplay? No. In fact, none of the functionality they provide is essential. But all of it is helpful, and they are logical functions for bases.

We need ship interiors. Tons of gameplay opportunities open up with that. And tons of RP options. Plus housing and personal space.

Too valuable to dispute.

[ExpendableCrewman]

Actually, I tried EVE and I really didn't like the fact that you never see your character, only the butt of your ship. It's the reason I stopped playing. I don't think I'm alone in this decision. I didn't complain about it, I just stopped playing the game.


I believe ship interiors are a plus to the gameplay and immersion, as housing or social areas, also for crafting. If people don't like them they can just ignore them. Many people don't like PvP, and will never play it. You don't see them complaining about the time and effort used to make PvP possible.

Different people want different things. Let's not be selfish and deny others what we are not interested in.

AMEN well said I dont see ANYONE petitioning for pvp to be removed just becasue they will use it thank you for this assessment. You are right on. And you know what?? ship interiors WILL be used by EVERYONE even the people that claim they are evil and will never even think about them <o the sacrelage!>

I see interiors as a bolstering force for immersion in an already mutti dimensionally immersive game. It can only help and for some people it even hinges on whether or not they will pay every month. So all in all I think Cryptic would be very smart to include them, even though it looks like they dont want to.

[ExpendableCrewman]

As is typical with discussions about interiors we have moved back into how necessary they are for immersion. I agree but that's not the reason for the thread.

Believe me, Sameet/CaptainHoliday/JoyriderCaptain/JoetheEngineer convinced everyone long ago of their value to Role Players and people who want immersion. I know that most everyone will appreciate them on some level, even hardcore gamers even of they don’t need them or care if they are included.

I want to know what interiors bring to the table in terms of utility. How can interiors change PVP/PVE game play? What if anything can be done to make them more relevant to non RPers? Suggestions have been made that boarding parties would be cool or maybe a spy hiding on your ship. But most every suggestion I have heard seems to fall into two categories;

1) Non utilitarian personal enhancements.
2) Game play elements that can be achieved in static or instanced interiors.

I fear my title was not clear enough so I will be changing it in hopes that it drives the discussion.

Well for one thing as of right now when you are traveling to and from point A to B you are doing just that; either traveling along that obscure, <no offense inteneded cryptic jus my opinion> TERRIBLE tiny squiggly lined filled warp map , or you are impulse cruison around a planet or zone. NOW if you added something like interiors, pplz would have something to do while they were doing this <travelin around> and it wouldnt just be GO GO GO GO GO !!! ACTION ACTION!!! PEW PEW PEW!!!!!!!

It would extend gameplay FOR EVERYONE make us pay to play even longer, we wouldnt get sick of it so fast <the game> and if some rp'er was sittin in his ready room bullshittin with his buds in chat or w/e on the comm..... he wouldnt be as likely to see my KVort Bird of Prey decloak right in front of him and send a torpedo through his entire enginneering section! LOL.

The gameplay applications are numerious, the added content will keep players paying and coming back, as well as allow them to play LONGER without gettin burned out on jus action all the time and the immersion factor will make RP'rs everywhere totlally buzzed content and happy about this game. PLUS it also gives cryptic more MT's to sell to us since we all KNOW well want to spruce up our own ship cuz after all its ours right?? Oh and once again it will make RP'ers everywhere happy and content.:)

[ExpendableCrewman]

Nothing about that conveys tha they're catering to RPers at all. One could easily come up with a comparable list for STO. RPing is more about making up your own story, and both games will be comparable to any other MMO out there in that respect.

Actually Bioware is known for its rpgs and they have said themselves <several times> that this game is TOTALLY for rp'ers they want full immersion thats is the whole reason they made every thing voiced, if they didnt care about rping they would have taken out the option for you to choose how you would respond and thus build.makeup your character.

THAT is after all roleplaying setting, immersing yourself in said environment and affecting it through your decisions. YOU ARE a part of that envornment and are playiong a role in that world. Thus: ROLEPLAYING. This is what Star Wars is and it is why they are using the same RolePLaying/interaction system they have implemented on Jade EMpire, KOTOR1 and KOTOR 2.

If the new star wars game is not a role playing game than neither are these three titles.<and no offense but to contest them is to contest rating and labeling form not only the devs that wrote and made these games but alos the entire world wide gaming and publication community.>

[Hagon]

Actually Bioware is known for its rpgs and they have said themselves <several times> that this game is TOTALLY for rp'ers they want full immersion thats is the whole reason they made every thing voiced, if they didnt care about rping they would have taken out the option for you to choose how you would respond and thus build.makeup your character.

THAT is after all roleplaying setting, immersing yourself in said environment and affecting it through your decisions. YOU ARE a part of that envornment and are playiong a role in that world. Thus: ROLEPLAYING. This is what Star Wars is and it is why they are using the same RolePLaying/interaction system they have implemented on Jade EMpire, KOTOR1 and KOTOR 2.

If the new star wars game is not a role playing game than neither are these three titles.<and no offense but to contest them is to contest rating and labeling form not only the devs that wrote and made these games but alos the entire world wide gaming and publication community.>Immersion and role playing are two almost entirely different things. As well, RPG as a genre designator has nothing to do with "role playing" in the sense of how people use that term. RPG isn't about play acting ones character. RPG is simply a designator describing the type of character progression and mechanics a game uses. If RPG was about "immersion" then all kinds of games like single player first person shooters to real time strategy games could use that descriptor, a game can easily be an RPG and not be very immersive at all, and people can "RP" (and a great many do) without having any physical game to immerse themselves in at all.

STO, as it's been laid out so far by Cryptic, will be just as immersive as any other mmo out there, and from even the little info we have to date it looks to be more so than most.

People's issues are misguided. They're complaining about Cryptic not catering to RPers enough, when in fact Cryptic has committed to catering to RPers numerous times here on these forums, and their actual issue is that Cryptic isn't adding one specific RP TOOL. One which very few really feel is necessary.

Role playing is creating your OWN story and following your OWN path within a basic framework. Not being offered a couple of extra choices in how one navigates through the story that's being force fed to you.

[ExpendableCrewman]

Immersion and role playing are two almost entirely different things. As well, RPG as a genre designator has nothing to do with "role playing" in the sense of how people use that term. RPG isn't about play acting ones character. RPG is simply a designator describing the type of character progression and mechanics a game uses. If RPG was about "immersion" then all kinds of games like single player first person shooters to real time strategy games could use that descriptor, a game can easily be an RPG and not be very immersive at all, and people can "RP" (and a great many do) without having any physical game to immerse themselves in at all.

STO, as it's been laid out so far by Cryptic, will be just as immersive as any other mmo out there, and from even the little info we have to date it looks to be more so than most.

People's issues are misguided. They're complaining about Cryptic not catering to RPers enough, when in fact Cryptic has committed to catering to RPers numerous times here on these forums, and their actual issue is that Cryptic isn't adding one specific RP TOOL. One which very few really feel is necessary.

Role playing is creating your OWN story and following your OWN path within a basic framework. Not being offered a couple of extra choices in how one navigates through the story that's being force fed to you.

Oes.. I didnt mean to imply that immersion and roleplaying were the same exact thing if thats how it came out then my bad thats not what I meant. All I meant to say was that roleplaying is immersive and what defines roleplaying is what was previously stated. I dont want to get too far off topic by debating what "roleplaying" actually is so I will concede and just "agree to disagree".